Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on August 24, 2019, 10:36:59 am

Title: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: crashlander on August 24, 2019, 10:36:59 am
And the winner is __________
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LoveNavy on August 24, 2019, 07:20:33 pm
Cats by a mile.

Goal review reflects the effectiveness and professionalism of the AFL.

I've never seen a team appeal for so many free kicks.
While that's a criticism of Geelong pussies, it merely feeds into the hands of pathetic umpiring decisions.
It's a circus.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Baggers on August 24, 2019, 07:21:19 pm
Any paper over any cracks has been wrenched away.

Well, Teaguey, now you can clearly see just how much work you have to do.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: flyboy77 on August 24, 2019, 07:30:02 pm
Cats are pretenders.
Out in straight sets me thinks.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: laj on August 24, 2019, 07:30:06 pm
Any paper over any cracks has been wrenched away.

Well, Teaguey, now you can clearly see just how much work you have to do.

We knew that. 6-5 in the last 11 matches with an awful draw in that time is a good effort. We're not top 4 level yet, as we found against the Cats, Tigers and Eagles, but we knew that and something we have to build further towards. Just another step along the journey.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: flyboy77 on August 24, 2019, 07:32:51 pm
Get a couple of mature bodies over the trade period.

Play Dow, Fisher, LOB in the 2s until - and I mean until - they can dominate at that level.

The three of them are a waste of space in the 1s.

That's not to say they won't become players, but....
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: kruddler on August 24, 2019, 07:35:41 pm
That officially puts an end to the roller coaster that was 2019.

I for one and happy to put that in the rear view mirror and look forward to the upcoming trade period which will have a HUGE say in how our 2020 season will go.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Mantis on August 24, 2019, 07:39:33 pm
It’s all good guys. We only need a few things to make it work for us next season. Two elite small forwards with x-factor. One elite mid. Cripps, Walsh, Murphy and Curnow can’t carry the squad. One elite rebounding defender with pace and x-factor. A quality Ruckman would help. Plus no windy days. Rain too. No umpires. Players to skill up on kicking between the BIG posts. Yes. The big f@cking ones. The posts in the f@cking middle you f@cking over paid morons. It’s not f@cking rocket science. No Buddhist monks, seventh day Adventist’s or archbishops in the crowd. Sorry, forgot to mention Donald Trump. Then it will all work out. I will play my role and work on the crowd. Unfortunately the rest is up to the club. I can’t be expected to do everything can I?
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: madbluboy on August 24, 2019, 07:40:07 pm
The wind change killed us.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: capcom on August 24, 2019, 07:40:07 pm
Judicious cuts required.  A fair few we now know will never make it.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Lods on August 24, 2019, 07:43:27 pm
Weitering went Ok  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Barbs on August 24, 2019, 07:43:53 pm
The wind change killed us.
We killed us.

Half our team was about as noticeable today as a fart in a jacuzzi.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: laj on August 24, 2019, 07:51:02 pm
We killed us.

Half our team was about as noticeable today as a fart in a jacuzzi.

That was a huge wind, can tell you that living in Geelong. To kick against it again in the 2nd qtr would've demoralised anyone. At least we won the qtr we kicked with it.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: shawny on August 24, 2019, 07:54:02 pm
Whenever I allow myself to feel confident, a game like that comes along and grounds me. We were never in this game and not sure they were even going flat out.

Their midfield creamed ours when the game was there to be won.

Still have to many young players with question marks for me to be too optimistic about all the talk we will surge up the ladder in 2020. Apart from Walsh not overly confident any of the other kids we have will be genuine a grader.

Miles of work to do and just have to get a big fish in this trade period to get an instant boost come round 1
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: madbluboy on August 24, 2019, 07:54:35 pm
We killed us.

Half our team was about as noticeable today as a fart in a jacuzzi.

Cats scoring shots with the wind

1st: 9
2nd: 8
4th: 14

Blues scoring shots with the wind

3rd: 8

Cats scoring shots against the wind

3rd: 3

Blues scoring shots against the wind

1st: 4
2nd: 7
4th: 2
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: madbluboy on August 24, 2019, 07:58:55 pm
Not sure why Cripps started on Dangerfield, he was never going to be able to run with him.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Barbs on August 24, 2019, 08:05:12 pm
Cats scoring shots with the wind

1st: 9
2nd: 8
4th: 14

Blues scoring shots with the wind

3rd: 8

Cats scoring shots against the wind

3rd: 3

Blues scoring shots against the wind

1st: 4
2nd: 7
4th: 2
Carlton players with 10 disposals or less - 9
Contested possessions: Geelong 174 - Carlton 135
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Jack Burton on August 24, 2019, 08:14:47 pm
Just got home from the game and I wouldn't worry about the umpires or the wind, I would worry about how many of our players gave us next to nothing today. Cripps, Murphy, E Curnow, Walsh all get big ticks. Very hard to find a good contributor after that. You can't beat good sides with that many passengers
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: cookie2 on August 24, 2019, 08:20:07 pm
Thank goodness that year is over! DT and his coaching team have got a busy summer ahead of them. I can relax a bit now and watch the finals with a detached and academic interest,
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: shawny on August 24, 2019, 08:23:39 pm
Just got home from the game and I wouldn't worry about the umpires or the wind, I would worry about how many of our players gave us next to nothing today. Cripps, Murphy, E Curnow, Walsh all get big ticks. Very hard to find a good contributor after that. You can't beat good sides with that many passengers

Yep spot on.

We talk up our kids like most bottom teams do, yet was concerning how the top teams kids looked every bit as promising as ours....Walsh aside.

Having said that congratulations to Sammy Walsh for breaking most disposals in first season. Nice to watch a kid that you don’t have any questions over. 
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Lods on August 24, 2019, 08:25:20 pm
We were unlucky with the wind....
The umpires were up to their usual shenanigans (I'm not sure how a ball that comes off a players leg below the knee isn't a goal...but I'll need to see it again.)

but...we have to own this.

Too much again was left to too few and once again our best players were basically players who were on the list before the rebuild and our two number one draft picks.
Weitering was outstanding and Walsh after a bit of a slow start cemented his place as the leading disposal winner in a debut year.

Hopefully 2020 will see a more consistency in some of our youngsters and players like Dow and Fisher who have had a down season bounce back.

Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: laj on August 24, 2019, 08:28:31 pm
Just got home from the game and I wouldn't worry about the umpires or the wind, I would worry about how many of our players gave us next to nothing today. Cripps, Murphy, E Curnow, Walsh all get big ticks. Very hard to find a good contributor after that. You can't beat good sides with that many passengers

Wouldn't worry about today. Always like to just check out for the year in this round. I'm looking more the last 11 weeks rather than today. All sides have shockers.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: PaulP on August 24, 2019, 08:32:01 pm
Just got home from the game and I wouldn't worry about the umpires or the wind, I would worry about how many of our players gave us next to nothing today. Cripps, Murphy, E Curnow, Walsh all get big ticks. Very hard to find a good contributor after that. You can't beat good sides with that many passengers

Yes, nice post. I think as the season progresses the differences between boys and men become more and more apparent, and that's what it was today, men vs boys. And that not only has a physical component, but a mental one as well. Geelong are where we want to get to - match hardened, tough physical bodies, with match hardened, experienced minds. They are class all the way through, played a lot of football together, have built a habit of winning, and simply know how to get the job done.

Teams in our position will always have a few wins / honourable losses and then a smacking now and again. It's a very noticeable and consistent pattern.

And congrats to Sammy Walsh on breaking Greene's record - surely the Rising Star is his now ? Rozee has dropped right off the pace from what I can tell.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Barbs on August 24, 2019, 08:32:43 pm
Yep spot on.

We talk up our kids like most bottom teams do, yet was concerning how the top teams kids looked every bit as promising as ours....Walsh aside.

Having said that congratulations to Sammy Walsh for breaking most disposals in first season. Nice to watch a kid that you don’t have any questions over.
It’s quite concerning just how badly some of our young players go into their shell and hesitate.
I’m hoping Teague has something up his sleeve in the pre-season that makes them breath fire and have a red hot go.
That and a new game plan that doesn’t rely so much on long kicking down the boundary.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Micky0 on August 24, 2019, 08:33:43 pm
Yes of course. But also remember

16v1
Nothing to play for v top spot to play for
crap conditions
crap umpiring
crap Ablett danger rowan etc who whinge at the umpires doe enery decision
crap wind direction that the tv commentators said went with Cats 3 quarters!

I look forward to our ridiculous no goal being overturned after the fact, ffs!

Let’s not be hard on the boys today - all down in effort because who really isn’t at this stage of the year with nothing to play for!?
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: shawny on August 24, 2019, 09:10:53 pm
Yes of course. But also remember

16v1
Nothing to play for v top spot to play for
crap conditions
crap umpiring
crap Ablett danger rowan etc who whinge at the umpires doe enery decision
crap wind direction that the tv commentators said went with Cats 3 quarters!

I look forward to our ridiculous no goal being overturned after the fact, ffs!

Let’s not be hard on the boys today - all down in effort because who really isn’t at this stage of the year with nothing to play for!?

They had tons to play for mate. 

No A grade talent has ever wanted to come to us since Judd and performing like that in the last round surely won’t help.

I’m tired of the excuses. Leigh Matthews is known as the greatest to ever have played and regularly says he never spent any time worrying about umpires. Says he would never ever waste a moment on something football related he or his team couldn’t influence.

And he was one of the biggest winners the game has seen.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Mantis on August 24, 2019, 09:27:32 pm
I agree Shawy. I understand getting a hard deal. I also understand you need to do what is in your control. You can’t beat the weather. You can’t beat the umpires. You have control of your play. Something we definitely did not do today. Not at all. 11 goals. Not a close game by any measure.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Micky0 on August 24, 2019, 09:32:42 pm
It’s the last round? After yet another tumultuous year?

Optimistic about next year ????????????????
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LoveNavy on August 24, 2019, 09:41:06 pm
Commentary on tv that Geelong wind was worth 5 goals.

Congratulations to Sam Walsh. What a champion. Take a bow and enjoy a well earned holiday son.

While today was disappointing in many ways, it wasn't a surprise. The youngsters always tire as the season goes on. We have lots of youngsters. Skinny youngsters at that. Ideally the likes of Dow, LOB, Walshy and even Fisher (time out with #leg) would get rested or an occasional run in the 2's. With injuries we didn't have that option.

Looking at the 2nd half of the season our boys have been ok. Get a fit list and a preseason under a new coach and we'll see 2020 improvement.

The off season will be an interesting one for us.

Go SOS
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: laj on August 24, 2019, 10:09:16 pm
They had tons to play for mate. 

No A grade talent has ever wanted to come to us since Judd and performing like that in the last round surely won’t help.

I’m tired of the excuses. Leigh Matthews is known as the greatest to ever have played and regularly says he never spent any time worrying about umpires. Says he would never ever waste a moment on something football related he or his team couldn’t influence.

And he was one of the biggest winners the game has seen.

Nothing to play for at all. We got 6 wins from 11, some very good wins, players thinking about Carlton won't make their mind up on one game. They'll see the last 11 games.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: shawny on August 25, 2019, 12:52:57 am
Nothing to play for at all. We got 6 wins from 11, some very good wins, players thinking about Carlton won't make their mind up on one game. They'll see the last 11 games.


How far have we fallen. Do you think the Carlton teams of the 80s would have that attitude. Not a chance!

Successful organisations are ruthless al the time and they don’t need to find a reason to complete.

Remember the night Clarkson flooded the defence to prevent Fev kicking his 100 all while they were pumping us. Did he need to do that - could have easily been a good bloke and allowed an easy goal.  I hated him at the time and thought what a pr1ck but now know they are the sort of traits the best team have while the bottom team like to be he nice guys that pick and choose when to go at 100% and make excuses when they get belted.

Hawthorn coincidentally are also the most successful club in the last 30 years. We need to stop making excuses for crap performances unless we want to stay where we have been in the least 10 years.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: townsendcalling on August 25, 2019, 07:36:45 am

How far have we fallen. Do you think the Carlton teams of the 80s would have that attitude. Not a chance

Don’t worry, some of our great teams in the 80s put in some shockers ....and they were great teams, not an emerging team. (Would have liked to have seen this forum when Geelong took half a side into a final at Waverley all those years ago and smashed us!). Yesterday doesn’t define the second half of the 2019 season, it reminds us  how far we have to go, and motivates us, with a degree of optimism for 2020.

Bring it on.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Micky0 on August 25, 2019, 08:58:56 am


Remember the night Clarkson flooded the defence to prevent Fev kicking his 100 all while they were pumping us. Did he need to do that - could have easily been a good bloke and allowed an easy goal.  I hated him at the time and thought what a pr1ck but now know they are the sort of traits the best team have while the bottom team like to be he nice guys that pick and choose when to go at 100% and make excuses when they get belted.
Yeah I remember, I was there. Completely carnt act by him - he stacked the defense incl Roughy to ensure Fev didn’t get it.

I didn’t look at that and think what a ruthless guy, I just thought what a carnt!
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Thryleon on August 25, 2019, 08:59:56 am

How far have we fallen. Do you think the Carlton teams of the 80s would have that attitude. Not a chance!

Successful organisations are ruthless al the time and they don’t need to find a reason to complete.

Remember the night Clarkson flooded the defence to prevent Fev kicking his 100 all while they were pumping us. Did he need to do that - could have easily been a good bloke and allowed an easy goal.  I hated him at the time and thought what a pr1ck but now know they are the sort of traits the best team have while the bottom team like to be he nice guys that pick and choose when to go at 100% and make excuses when they get belted.

Hawthorn coincidentally are also the most successful club in the last 30 years. We need to stop making excuses for crap performances unless we want to stay where we have been in the least 10 years.

In 1995 we lost to sydney and st Kilda two weeks running when they were sitting at the foot of the ladder.

These things happen.  We pummeled everyone but them that season.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: kruddler on August 25, 2019, 09:06:51 am
Yeah I remember, I was there. Completely carnt act by him - he stacked the defense incl Roughy to ensure Fev didn’t get it.

I didn’t look at that and think what a ruthless guy, I just thought what a carnt!

I was also there that day and it was as bad of a flood as i've ever seen.

3 extra players taking up space in front of Fev for no good reason apart from making the day all about Buddy.

At the time i remember after a behind, Fev standing the mark mouthing off to a Hawks player as he kicked in.
Years later Fev actually spoke about that and said he was offering Guerra(?) 20k to grub his kickout to him so he can get his 100th. Was worth a shot.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: kruddler on August 25, 2019, 09:07:36 am
In 1995 we lost to sydney and st Kilda two weeks running when they were sitting at the foot of the ladder.

These things happen.  We pummeled everyone but them that season.

Rumours suggesting a lot of our boys had money on the opposition those days. Not sure how true it is, but it would explain a bit.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: kruddler on August 25, 2019, 09:10:17 am
A few of us have pointed out the umpiring, specfically, but not limited too, the goal review debacle and how dodgy that was.

This could explain a bit...



(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69562046_2320844774700264_8393861917529079808_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQl8CIFM2piDx8tatfhQKd9CoZjfDmfyUtX0t6ABxMf--gYFg-scdsE-iJge3CV-ZS0&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=352fad6a1507ebc387e2a8026b193a76&oe=5E0A85CF)
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: madbluboy on August 25, 2019, 09:34:00 am
I was also there that day and it was as bad of a flood as i've ever seen.

3 extra players taking up space in front of Fev for no good reason apart from making the day all about Buddy.

At the time i remember after a behind, Fev standing the mark mouthing off to a Hawks player as he kicked in.
Years later Fev actually spoke about that and said he was offering Guerra(?) 20k to grub his kickout to him so he can get his 100th. Was worth a shot.

Hodge said in the interview after the game that the rate Fev was going at they were worried he was going to steal the Coleman medal off of Buddy.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: cookie2 on August 25, 2019, 09:41:25 am
Rumours suggesting a lot of our boys had money on the opposition those days. Not sure how true it is, but it would explain a bit.

Echos of Denis Lillee?
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: flyboy77 on August 25, 2019, 10:12:23 am
I just want blokes like Dow, O'Brien, Fisher to show some intensity....

Dow's 'chasing' is non existent. I could run faster!
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: crashlander on August 25, 2019, 10:37:39 am
The wind change killed us.
3 quarters against a five goal win is a recipe for disaster. Pretty much the difference in the scores.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: madbluboy on August 25, 2019, 10:42:20 am
3 quarters against a five goal win is a recipe for disaster. Pretty much the difference in the scores.

They only kicked into the wind once and had 3 scoring shots. Enough said.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LP on August 25, 2019, 10:57:24 am
A few of us have pointed out the umpiring, specfically, but not limited too, the goal review debacle and how dodgy that was.

This could explain a bit...

Further, Pudding Face Twin " The Elder" is in the media again bleating despite their huge home ground advantage delivering another win!

Keep in mind, along with CheatsFC and the Dawks this Handbagger mob lead the charge to end games at the "obsolete suburban grounds" like Princes Park. Now they've spent more than $170M of public money developing their ground that can't fit in any opposition fans, and want to play the GF there! Both the Cheats and Dawks are touting plans to further develop their own boutique facilities to host matches against interstate teams! The Dawks even have the state government running an underground train loop right past their stadiums front door!

Who was the forkwit at our club that worried about the profitability from spending $45M two decades ago to update our home with underground parking? What an ultramoron, they basically condemned us to long term obsolesence!

FFS Carlton, grow some balls and call a spade a spade!
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: flyboy77 on August 25, 2019, 11:32:51 am
They only kicked into the wind once and had 3 scoring shots. Enough said.

Good point that - the commentators said several times it was a 5 goal wind, whichever way it blew!
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: kruddler on August 25, 2019, 11:34:16 am
Further, Pudding Face Twin " The Elder" is in the media again bleating despite their huge home ground advantage delivering another win!

Keep in mind, along with CheatsFC and the Dawks this Handbagger mob lead the charge to end games at the "obsolete suburban grounds" like Princes Park. Now they've spent more than $170M of public money developing their ground that can't fit in any opposition fans, and want to play the GF there! Both the Cheats and Dawks are touting plans to further develop their own boutique facilities to host matches against interstate teams! The Dawks even have the state government running an underground train loop right past their stadiums front door!

Who was the forkwit at our club that worried about the profitability from spending $45M two decades ago to update our home with underground parking? What an ultramoron, they basically condemned us to long term obsolesence!

FFS Carlton, grows some balls and call a spade a spade!

Somewhat ironically, the only upgrades to our home turf is to turn it into the home of womens football. No balls allowed!

Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LP on August 25, 2019, 11:45:19 am
Somewhat ironically, the only upgrades to our home turf is to turn it into the home of womens football. No balls allowed!

Kruddler, since the TPP penalties we keep being nice citizens in AFL circles, and then pricks like Dangerfield or the Pudding Face Twins frequently stab us in the back after we support their causes!

Have a look at Nthmond and McGuire, both publicly opposed the Carlton / Princes Park redevelopment plan, claiming that such a venue didn't fit within the AFL's wider plans to benefit all clubs. Then within a month both launched their own boutique stadium proposals!

For years Carlton pushed for Good Friday football as part of the wider plan to raise funds for the RCH, built on the battle of the neighbours Carlton and Norp that flank the RCH. So what happens, Sheedy butts in claiming CheatsFC deserve the gig, and the AFL schedule the game against Norp!

In some ways our silence makes us the leagues buffoons. I appreciate bleating about it is not the solution, however that shouldn't be an excuse for inaction!
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: kruddler on August 25, 2019, 12:13:49 pm
Kruddler, since the TPP penalties we keep being nice citizens in AFL circles, and then pricks like Dangerfield or the Pudding Face Twins frequently stab us in the back after we support their causes!

Have a look at Nthmond and McGuire, both publicly opposed the Carlton / Princes Park redevelopment plan, claiming that such a venue didn't fit within the AFL's wider plans to benefit all clubs. Then within a month both launched their own boutique stadium proposals!

For years Carlton pushed for Good Friday football as part of the wider plan to raise funds for the RCH, built on the battle of the neighbours Carlton and Norp that flank the RCH. So what happens, Sheedy butts in claiming CheatsFC deserve the gig, and the AFL schedule the game against Norp!

In some ways our silence makes us the leagues buffoons. I appreciate bleating about it is not the solution, however that shouldn't be an excuse for inaction!

Look, some of what you say is right, some is best said by someone wearing a tin-foil hat.

There is a difference between causation and correlation.

In regards to developing PP. I would give that another go now. With the parkville train station now getting built, it solves one of the biggest issues our ground ever had, getting there. Now the train will be in close proximity to the ground, easier enough to walk too, but if required, the tram can take you the last 2km to the front door.

The area around is a big enough area to accomodate any growth required.

Personally if i was to develop the area, i'd start from scratch and build a brand new stadium right next door to where we are now, and keep Ikon Park as a training ground/ AFLW / VFL ground. Similar to the Tigers and Punt road oval.

I'd make it ultra modern and future proof, put a roof on it if you need to and make a Marvel Stadium type clone.....but do it right from the beginning. Host concerts etc there and make money of it that way.

We just need the backing of a forward thinking billionaire....
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: RiverRat on August 25, 2019, 12:16:26 pm
The wind change killed us.

That plus the way that Kreuzer doesn't jump in the centre circle ruck contests. From the very first contest, the opposition ruckmen jumped over MK and cleared the ball for easy centre clearances.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LP on August 25, 2019, 12:35:21 pm
That plus the way that Kreuzer doesn't jump in the centre circle ruck contests. From the very first contest, the opposition ruckmen jumped over MK and cleared the ball for easy centre clearances.

We play Kreuzer injured because away from the centre square he's worth 2 or 3 of Casboult, Phillips or Lobbe!

What we missed yesterday was Jones, our KPP game plan fell over because we couldn't cover the run of the Handbagger talls. Even so Weitering was probably the best tall on the ground.

I heard some caller spud on radio last night claim Hawkins was among the Handbagger's best, it must have been a Pudding Face Twin or a Dangerfield in disguise! ;D
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: laj on August 25, 2019, 01:17:34 pm
Rumours suggesting a lot of our boys had money on the opposition those days. Not sure how true it is, but it would explain a bit.

I used to go to training back in 1982 had a friend working for Carlton then. Told me in advance games we were going to lose in the 2nd half of that year. He was spot on. We lost in a similar way most times. 3 times in the 2nd half of that season!
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: cookie2 on August 25, 2019, 01:23:23 pm
Our major problem in that game imo was that, although we did very well in terms of the number of times we got the ball into F50, we just could not keep it there or capitalise in terms of goals. The Cats were far more effective/efficient in terms of F50 entries. Our midfield did not appear to be the cause of our demise imo.
Nevertheless, we were carrying three passengers (at least) in terms of O'Brien, Fisher and Dow. Hopefully the penny drops for them in 2020 and we start seeing some better performances and involvement in the game.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: laj on August 25, 2019, 01:28:07 pm
Our major problem in that game imo was that, although we did very well in terms of the number of times we got the ball into F50, we just could not keep it there or capitalise in terms of goals. The Cats were far more effective/efficient in terms of F50 entries. Our midfield did not appear to be the cause of our demise imo.
Nevertheless, we were carrying three passengers (at least) in terms of O'Brien, Fisher and Dow. Hopefully the penny drops for them in 2020 and we start seeing some better performances and involvement in the game.

Light kids, another pre-season will help. The trade period is hopefully the last of the rebuild where we get to add a few big bodies so light kids don't have to do a big bulk of midfield grunts.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: laj on August 25, 2019, 01:47:38 pm
That plus the way that Kreuzer doesn't jump in the centre circle ruck contests. From the very first contest, the opposition ruckmen jumped over MK and cleared the ball for easy centre clearances.

Kreuzer, if he has a tough day they say he isn't so good and pick every fault, when he comes back from injury and plays well, it's "we are so much a different side with Kreuzer".
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: crashlander on August 25, 2019, 04:31:10 pm
Matthew Kreuzer is the best ruckman we've got, by some margin.
However, he isn't going to be the ruckman who wins us a flag next. His injuries mean that he doesn't have the spring. Nor does he have the height to combat a 211 cm ruckman. Nor does he have the strength to combat some of the shorter, stronger guys who don't jump.
I still love the guy, the way he gives 100% every time he goes out. But he is so rarely 100% in his own body ...
I have harped on it a lot, but we need a dominant ruckman. We don't have one.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Lods on August 25, 2019, 04:40:12 pm
Matthew Kreuzer is the best ruckman we've got, by some margin.
However, he isn't going to be the ruckman who wins us a flag next. His injuries mean that he doesn't have the spring. Nor does he have the height to combat a 211 cm ruckman. Nor does he have the strength to combat some of the shorter, stronger guys who don't jump.
I still love the guy, the way he gives 100% every time he goes out. But he is so rarely 100% in his own body ...
I have harped on it a lot, but we need a dominant ruckman. We don't have one.

Where does Kreuzer play if he isn't our number one ruckman.
I don't think he does.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: laj on August 25, 2019, 05:04:51 pm
Matthew Kreuzer is the best ruckman we've got, by some margin.
However, he isn't going to be the ruckman who wins us a flag next. His injuries mean that he doesn't have the spring. Nor does he have the height to combat a 211 cm ruckman. Nor does he have the strength to combat some of the shorter, stronger guys who don't jump.
I still love the guy, the way he gives 100% every time he goes out. But he is so rarely 100% in his own body ...
I have harped on it a lot, but we need a dominant ruckman. We don't have one.

Many a flag won without dominant ruckmen.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Baggers on August 25, 2019, 05:46:10 pm
That plus the way that Kreuzer doesn't jump in the centre circle ruck contests. From the very first contest, the opposition ruckmen jumped over MK and cleared the ball for easy centre clearances.

...and didn't that set the tone for the day!

Can't help but wonder if we took a number of injured blokes into the game, including Kreuzer with his decaying feet and knees. But then maybe I'm simply hoping that 4 broken legs, 3 ACLs, 2 concussions, 3 blokes with leprosy and 6 blokes accidentally slipped 20mg ea of Valium before the game explains our performance. ;)
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: cookie2 on August 25, 2019, 05:57:54 pm
Kreuzer was NOT the reason we lost that game so badly. Sorry!
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LP on August 25, 2019, 07:14:40 pm
Many a flag won without dominant ruckmen.

Names and dates?
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: DJC on August 25, 2019, 07:45:39 pm
Kreuzer, if he has a tough day they say he isn't so good and pick every fault, when he comes back from injury and plays well, it's "we are so much a different side with Kreuzer".

Very true.  Apart from Stanley hitting the scoreboard, I would call it a tie.  Casboult having a shocker didn’t help Kreuzer’s cause.

And you don’t leave Dangermouse unattended on the goal side at centre bounces  >:(
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LoveNavy on August 25, 2019, 08:44:20 pm
A few of us have pointed out the umpiring, specfically, but not limited too, the goal review debacle and how dodgy that was.

This could explain a bit...



(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/69562046_2320844774700264_8393861917529079808_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQl8CIFM2piDx8tatfhQKd9CoZjfDmfyUtX0t6ABxMf--gYFg-scdsE-iJge3CV-ZS0&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=352fad6a1507ebc387e2a8026b193a76&oe=5E0A85CF)

Are you serious?
Is this standard practice?
Do the umpires go and hug all the coaches post game ????
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: deags on August 25, 2019, 10:13:15 pm
I'm probably as big a whinger as anyone when it comes to umpires, but the ump was retiring after 500 odd games, I don't think its too much of a stretch for Scott to acknowledge that.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: Thryleon on August 25, 2019, 10:41:47 pm
Further, Pudding Face Twin " The Elder" is in the media again bleating despite their huge home ground advantage delivering another win!

Keep in mind, along with CheatsFC and the Dawks this Handbagger mob lead the charge to end games at the "obsolete suburban grounds" like Princes Park. Now they've spent more than $170M of public money developing their ground that can't fit in any opposition fans, and want to play the GF there! Both the Cheats and Dawks are touting plans to further develop their own boutique facilities to host matches against interstate teams! The Dawks even have the state government running an underground train loop right past their stadiums front door!

Who was the forkwit at our club that worried about the profitability from spending $45M two decades ago to update our home with underground parking? What an ultramoron, they basically condemned us to long term obsolesence!

FFS Carlton, grow some balls and call a spade a spade!



These guys are smooth operators.   Start bleating about the lack of home final at the mcg knowing full well you're not getting games in geelong and it forces the afl to give you a "home ground advantage " at the mcg.  I.e. favouritism by the umpires.

At worst you get a home final in geelong.

If you happen to lose you and your fans can be outraged legitimately.

Everyone in geelong wins.  It's called strategic bleating.  
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: DJC on August 26, 2019, 11:43:10 am
Names and dates?

Western Bulldogs 2016 ????
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: flyboy77 on August 26, 2019, 11:59:53 am
Richmond 2017.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LP on August 26, 2019, 12:13:12 pm
Western Bulldogs 2016 ????

Western Bulldogs played two Ruck/KPP players, Boyd and Roughead, up against Naismith and Tippett.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LP on August 26, 2019, 12:14:01 pm
Richmond 2017.

I'll tell Nankervis he's a spud!

I was responding to Laj who was arguing against Crashlander desire to find a replacement for Kreuzer.

Matthew Kreuzer is the best ruckman we've got, by some margin.
However, he isn't going to be the ruckman who wins us a flag next. His injuries mean that he doesn't have the spring. Nor does he have the height to combat a 211 cm ruckman. Nor does he have the strength to combat some of the shorter, stronger guys who don't jump.
I still love the guy, the way he gives 100% every time he goes out. But he is so rarely 100% in his own body ...
I have harped on it a lot, but we need a dominant ruckman. We don't have one.

To which Laj replied;

Many a flag won without dominant ruckmen.

There's a huge difference between claiming you can go through seasons and finals without a dominant ruck option and winning a game on the day when you lose the ruck contests despite having a good ruckmen! Even then losing the ruck is debatable in all the games offered as examples so far, because the ruck options listed had huge game impact away from the centre bounces and tap work, but that is still happening in and as part of the role of a ruck!

Having a Kreuzer type or not having a Kreuzer type determines whether you actually make it to the GF in the first place, arguing that you don't need to recruit a ruck because you can win a GF without them is ludicrous and not supported by history at all!

You can win a GF on the day when you have lost the ruck, but that is just choosing to have a very narrow perspective of what "ruck" means to the overall team performance and structure!

Take a Kreuzer type out of any team and it's devastating, Laj is arguing we don't need a replacement because you can win without them, maybe a game or two, but you won't have to worry about finals if you go through a season without them! It's a ludicrous argument he makes in the lead-up to every trade period!

If we took Laj's perspective literally we'd be cutting Casboult tomorrow, maybe today, but we don't because "ruck" means more than centre bounces and taps as Laj selectively knows and applies if I post that Casboult is playing like a spud in the ruck!
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: madbluboy on August 26, 2019, 12:16:24 pm
I'll tell Nankervis he's a spud!

Not a spud but he's not a dominant ruckman.

2013: Max Bailey/David Hale
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: madbluboy on August 26, 2019, 12:35:24 pm
2018: Lycett/Vardy
2017: Nankervis/Grigg lol
2016: Roughead/Boyd
2013: Bailey/Hale
2009: Campbell/Renouf


Half of the last decade of premiers did not have a dominant ruckman.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LP on August 26, 2019, 12:37:42 pm
2018: Lycett/Vardy
2017: Nankervis/Grigg lol
2016: Roughead/Boyd
2013: Bailey/Hale
2009: Campbell/Renouf


Half of the last decade of premiers did not have a dominant ruckman.

What is your scope for "Dominant Ruckmen"?
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: madbluboy on August 26, 2019, 01:07:10 pm
What is your scope for "Dominant Ruckmen"?

A ruckman that dominates.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LP on August 26, 2019, 01:14:19 pm
A ruckman that dominates.

Good, you can send the club the wording for the job ad, you've got it covered! ;D

In the meantime we can play Phillips and Casboult in the ruck and watch as Mumford types lose the taps but beat the hell out of our on-ballers all around the ground!
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: madbluboy on August 26, 2019, 01:27:21 pm
The list I provided shows you don't need a dominant ruck to win the flag.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: LP on August 26, 2019, 02:45:46 pm
The list I provided shows you don't need a dominant ruck to win the flag.

Dominant.

Some people think a 1st or 2nd ruck covering ground, tackling opponents, creating space, taking marks and kicking goals is dominant, others think having 50 taps is dominant!

So what's dominant, has Casboult be dominant playing in the 2nd ruck?
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: tonyo on August 26, 2019, 04:25:14 pm
I think it's time to park 2019 and start looking forward.

Saturday was a game against a top 4 side with a huge amount to play for, versus an improving struggler.  Wind, rain, everything working against us.  And it was pretty clear that the Blues went into survival mode in the last quarter and concentrated on getting through in one piece.

Next time we play Geelong, it will be a dry day at the 'G and I am certain things will be different.

FWIW, that boy Narkle has a bit of something about him.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: DJC on August 26, 2019, 05:03:36 pm
I think it's time to park 2019 and start looking forward.

Saturday was a game against a top 4 side with a huge amount to play for, versus an improving struggler.  Wind, rain, everything working against us.  And it was pretty clear that the Blues went into survival mode in the last quarter and concentrated on getting through in one piece.

Next time we play Geelong, it will be a dry day at the 'G and I am certain things will be different.

FWIW, that boy Narkle has a bit of something about him.

My thoughts exactly; farewell to the 2019 season, bring on 2020  :)

Yes, Narkle looks very promising, but most of our youngsters would look the goods if they were playing with the Cats lineup.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: cookie2 on August 26, 2019, 05:09:52 pm
I have already moved on from season 2019 apart from an academic interest in finals. The trade period will be massive for us.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: kruddler on August 26, 2019, 05:17:07 pm
I'm probably as big a whinger as anyone when it comes to umpires, but the ump was retiring after 500 odd games, I don't think its too much of a stretch for Scott to acknowledge that.

Did he get a hug from Teague as well? Doubt it.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: deags on August 26, 2019, 05:23:11 pm
Did he get a hug from Teague as well? Doubt it.

Teague didnt have the same length of career as Scott, either as a player or senior coach.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: RiverRat on August 26, 2019, 05:58:32 pm
Where does Kreuzer play if he isn't our number one ruckman.
I don't think he does.

I would play him as a big body midfielder who can contribute to clearances and take ruck contests around the ground. In addition, we need a tall player who can get off the ground to actually contest centre bounces before making himself useful elsewhere.
Title: Re: Post Game Passion: AFL 2019 Rd 23: Carlton vs Geelong
Post by: crashlander on August 26, 2019, 06:39:14 pm
2018: Lycett/Vardy
2017: Nankervis/Grigg lol
2016: Roughead/Boyd
2013: Bailey/Hale
2009: Campbell/Renouf


Half of the last decade of premiers did not have a dominant ruckman.
But they were dominant in the finals.

2018: Lycett/Vardy:   Lycett is not the greatest ruckman of all time, but he had a final’s series to define his career. He actually beat real top ruckmen during those games and kept Grundy from dominating in the GF. Even Vardy played some of his best football in years.
WC’s ability to win enough taps and nullify their betters was crucial in allowing their midfield to get on top. And then their talls stood up around the ground and took match winning marks.
Had Lycett and Vardy played as they had during the season, they simply wouldn’t have won.

2017: Nankervis/Grigg lol   I have reservations about Nankervis, but he played his best footy in 2017 and allowed the Richmond mids to dominate. He kept Sauce Jacobs to his least effective game on the year.
As for Grigg … I’m not going there. I haven’t forgiven him for abandoning us yet.

2016: Roughead/Boyd:   I could not say this pair is a top duo, but Roughead played his best footy for the Dogs that season and limited the effectiveness of the other ruckmen. As for Boyd, it was probably the only time in his career that he played to his potential. He was magnificent on GF Day.
I am not surprised that neither could repeat that performance, but they really stood up when it counted.

2013: Bailey/Hale:   Bailey and Hale were not match winners, but they nullified their opponents and allowed their own mids to dominate.
2009: Campbell/Renouf:   I find it difficult to believe that any team could win with these spuds as ruckmen. But their job, as Bailey and Hale did in 2013, wasn’t to win the rucks. Instead it was to make sure that their opponents didn’t win the rucks.

Honestly the 2 Hawthorn pairs are the exception that almost proves the rule. They had midfields that were extraordinary. All they had to do was to keep their opponents from winning the game, and their smalls would do the rest.

I could live with that, if we had a midfield good enough to dominate like Hawthorn’s did.
I could live with the sort of guys who rose like a Phoenix during the finals.
But I would prefer the sort of rucks that can lift and win the game themselves.