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Topic: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon (Read 33568 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #150
It's not temporary PaulP, it has always been part of football, sport, war, politics or just about any other organised conflict. You target the leaders!

My sons been a captain of footy teams on and off for years, and he's one of the smaller players on the field like Murphy. What enables him to contribute consistently are the actions of team-mates not the opposition. The opposition are always into him!

Things change and evolve. There are many things that were done in AFL/VFL footy before that are no longer possible.

And AFL footy isn't war - it's a multi billion dollar entertainment industry with highly trained sportspeople pretending to be gladiators for our collective entertainment.

The AFL is essentially a glorified mates competition - plenty of these guys go to school together, grow up in the same street, go to draft camp together, play on the same team before changing over, marry each other's sisters, rent houses together etc. You think they sit in the change rooms planning war ?

I'd like to see specific examples of the great recent teams (Hawks, Swans, Cats) repeatedly selecting one player to target for the whole game with this sort of carry on.

It's low brow - get it out of the game.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #151
And I'm not really a fan of this habit Bolton has of occasionally targeting one player - first Mills at the Swans, then Ablett at GC, now Goddard. It's not a great look for the game, and it makes us look like we have no skilful way of winning, so we have to resort to this. I'm hoping it's just a temporary, growing pains arrangement.
You forgot Scicily Paul, personally, I don’t have a problem with this at all, always been a part of footy, gotta be strong in mind to play this game & if your teammates aren’t helping you out, then cop it sweet and try and get the pill ;)

 

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #152
Paul, I kind of agree and know where you're coming from.

I don't think Goddard was treated nearly as much as Mills was - that was over the top.  The first qtr, maybe, but the second he was much more free.  It almost seemed as if a few players kind of remembered and instruction and half heartedly followed through after qtr time.

While not saying it is right - they were doing some ordinary things as well.

If players such as Goddard, Sicily and maybe Oliver behave like they do when a little comes back to them, of course teams are going to take that advantage.  Bet that Gawn won't be targetted...

Does it follow that if the physical is rubbed out, so is the verbal?  It appeared Bellchambers gave someone a mouthful after the first bounce was recalled.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #153
Paul, I kind of agree and know where you're coming from.

I don't think Goddard was treated nearly as much as Mills was - that was over the top.  The first qtr, maybe, but the second he was much more free.  It almost seemed as if a few players kind of remembered and instruction and half heartedly followed through after qtr time.

While not saying it is right - they were doing some ordinary things as well.

If players such as Goddard, Sicily and maybe Oliver behave like they do when a little comes back to them, of course teams are going to take that advantage.  Bet that Gawn won't be targetted...

Does it follow that if the physical is rubbed out, so is the verbal?  It appeared Bellchambers gave someone a mouthful after the first bounce was recalled.

I'm certainly not suggesting the Bomber are angels - far from it. It's an area of the game that I think needs to be cleaned up as I said. As a Carlton fan, I pay most attention to our games, and so would have more of what we do in mind, rather than what the other teams are doing.

The physical is more black and white for mine, the verbal sledging is more a grey area. However I do think this also needs looking into, as even though the players tell us that they know where the boundaries lie, they seem to transgress those boundaries far too often.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #154
You forgot Scicily Paul, personally, I don’t have a problem with this at all, always been a part of footy, gotta be strong in mind to play this game & if your teammates aren’t helping you out, then cop it sweet and try and get the pill ;)

Yes, you're right, I did forget La Sicilia. Like I said, can anyone provide examples of any successful team employing this specific tactic i.e verbally and physically targeting one and only one player from the opposition for an entire game, and doing this a number of times against different opposition ?

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #155
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/alastair-clarkson-believes-carltons-treatment-of-james-sicily-might-have-crossed-the-line/news-story/ff813a44c3a42b481033fe5c2443cb8d

Quote
“I think there is a line in the sand to be drawn on it and that probably crossed it a little bit last week. But having said that, we can’t be too critical because we have been involved in that sort of stuff ourselves, every club does it at some point in time to try and influence or negate or curb the influence of a player from the opposition. Carlton did it particularly well last week.’’

Clarkson said Sicily would learn from the game, but conceded he was a player who played “on the edge” and the Hawks had to educate him on how he managed that in the future.

Mills, Sicily, Goddard...What was the result of each of those games?
We won't change the tactic.
Change will have to come from the AFL

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #156
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/alastair-clarkson-believes-carltons-treatment-of-james-sicily-might-have-crossed-the-line/news-story/ff813a44c3a42b481033fe5c2443cb8d

Mills, Sicily, Goddard...What was the result of each of those games?
We won't change the tactic.
Change will have to come from the AFL

That much is certainly true.

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #157
Yes, you're right, I did forget La Sicilia. Like I said, can anyone provide examples of any successful team employing this specific tactic i.e verbally and physically targeting one and only one player from the opposition for an entire game, and doing this a number of times against different opposition ?

Like the Dawks getting into StevieJ or Ablett Jnr?

When Brisbane used to target Bickley or Goodes?

Like when Robbo targeted Fletcher?

When just about any team we come up against targets Murphy!

It's been that way forever it's not something new at all, teams always identify key individuals and target them in whatever way they see fit within the rules!
The Force Awakens!

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #158
And AFL footy isn't war - it's a multi billion dollar entertainment industry with highly trained sportspeople pretending to be gladiators for our collective entertainment.

Money is the root of all evils, for greedy people money is worth going to war for in whatever circumstances they can orchestrate.

I'm sure we would all love some more idealistic approach, but it's nice the nice guys who win, go ask Cotchin!
The Force Awakens!

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #159
Like the Dawks getting into StevieJ or Ablett Jnr?

When Brisbane used to target Bickley or Goodes?

Like when Robbo targeted Fletcher?

When just about any team we come up against targets Murphy!

It's been that way forever it's not something new at all, teams always identify key individuals and target them in whatever way they see fit within the rules!

I'll take your word for it, but I don't recall any of those instances, and I don't recall of any of those being a single player being smacked and crashed into for an entire game.

So if all's fair in love and multi billion dollar entertainment, I guess there won't be any complaints on here when this sort of garbage is meted out to any of our young stars and leaders ?


Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #160
I'll take your word for it, but I don't recall any of those instances, and I don't recall of any of those being a single player being smacked and crashed into for an entire game.

So if all's fair in love and multi billion dollar entertainment, I guess there won't be any complaints on here when this sort of garbage is meted out to any of our young stars and leaders ?

i seem to remember Greg Williams running around with a bulls eye target on the back of his jumper :o
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #161
This is very much a head v heart proposition for mine. Given his age, injury history etc., given that we now have two younger guys in Lobbe and Phillips who are arguably better as "pure" ruckmen, plus TDK, plus the obligatory part timers (Casboult etc.), my head understands that there is some merit to this idea.

But deep down, I feel Krooz is such a heart and soul player, and as Navy Blue as it is possible to be. And still playing good footy. I really couldn't bear to see him in any other colours. That would really drive a massive dagger right between the right and left ventricle.

If I was running the joint, I'm just not sure I would have the coglioni to do it.


Krooz is not as Navy Blue as possible and if he didn't fail a fitness test at Collingwood he would be wearing Black and White.

So he stayed but I agree that he is does give 100% heart and soul and effort for the jumper everytime he runs out and you can't ask for much more than that.
Long time lurker few time poster !!

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #162
I'll take your word for it, but I don't recall any of those instances, and I don't recall of any of those being a single player being smacked and crashed into for an entire game.

Of course back in the "good old days", there was less niggle and the very first hit was somewhat more substantial. Like Yeates on Brereton or Matthews on Bruns!

As Carlton supporters we should nopt forget The Hyphen's threats against Brereton, or Diesel's treatment of The Hyphen!

So if all's fair in love and multi billion dollar entertainment, I guess there won't be any complaints on here when this sort of garbage is meted out to any of our young stars and leaders ?

Of course we will complain, and they have already been targeted, like Marc Murphy's first game against the Lions.

But we will cheer when someone like Ablett Jnr gets worked over by a Robbo or Curnow! ;)
The Force Awakens!

Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #163
I'll take your word for it, but I don't recall any of those instances, and I don't recall of any of those being a single player being smacked and crashed into for an entire game.

So if all's fair in love and multi billion dollar entertainment, I guess there won't be any complaints on here when this sort of garbage is meted out to any of our young stars and leaders ?

I have a feeling that down the track there will be some restrictions put on players being targeted for entire games.
Actually, if the rules are applied 'to the letter' there are are dozens of times in a game when a free kick can be awarded for these tactics.

The thing is though ...I remember when Murphy was targeted earlier on, and we've seen what happened with Mills.... and Goddard on the weekend.
The 'shame' wasn't directed on the attacker....it was directed on the team-mates and their failure to support the player being targeted.
After the Mills incident the Swans made a bit of a commitment to one another that it wouldn't happen again and gained a bit of strength through that.
That's what I'd be looking for if it happened to our players.
That's one way you stop it.
If opposition teams get away with that tactic it highlights a weakness in your commitment to one another.


Re: 2018 Rd 8: Post Game Passion: Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #164
After the Mills incident the Swans made a bit of a commitment to one another that it wouldn't happen again and gained a bit of strength through that.
That's what I'd be looking for if it happened to our players.
That's one way you stop it.
If opposition teams get away with that tactic it highlights a weakness in your commitment to one another.

x2, this is exactly the way I see it.

It's one of the problems we have at the moment, because in the absence of Rowe and ACoS our kids have been targeted and nobody is standing up to the opposition. I think it's a much bigger reason for our poor start to the season than people admit! I was very happy to see Casboult taking a few of them on in Kreuzer's absence, that is what we needed from the big lug 5 years ago! Until recently without Rowe or ACoS, and with Kreuzer out, Cripps was getting hammered trying to defend everyone on his lonesome.

One of the things we really liked last season was the bit of aggro Williamson and Macreadie brought to the games, and it made others like Weitering and Charlie stand up! When ACoS came in we saw a natural increase in aggression and pressure around the opposition ball carriers.

I'll never forgive the likes of Tuohy and Henderson for the lack of care they showed towards team-mates. When they were themselves targeted they expected support, when team-mates were targeted they jogged quietly past!

I can't wait to see what The Big Loper can deliver in a year or two when he's fed up of being targeted. He'll be intimidating and impressive!
The Force Awakens!