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Topic: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS (Read 8008 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #105
Our defence in 2016 and 2017 was pretty reasonable. Once Teague came on board in 2018, the focus shifted and the coherence from those 2 years just evaporated. I'm not sure what's up, and I have no interest in starting yet another slanging match, but his coaching history with us clearly shows a struggle / lack of interest in modern, sophisticated defensive setups. We are lucky that neither Weitering nor Jones have been out long term, because we would be stuffed. Teague's reliance on these two is excessive IMO.

We were still making the same basic defensive errors under Bolts Paul.  In fact, we've been making them since the turn of the century  :(
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #106
Are you referring to the one on the CFC home page, that goes for about 12 minutes ?

If so, it sounded like most TT press conferences IMO. He said he believes that their systems are fine, and the problems are due to players failing to execute the system. Then added that once the players start executing the system correctly, if it still fails, then they would look at it (or words to that effect).

That worries me!

Teague would benefit from an intensive media awareness course.  However, a higher priority should be the AFL's level 4 coaching course ... but it's probably not a good look to send a senior coach on a coaching course.

That thinking - blaming the players for not executing the gameplan - is reminiscent of Pagan and Malthouse and I would like to think that Teague is more flexible and innovative than those two.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #107
That worries me!

Teague would benefit from an intensive media awareness course.  However, a higher priority should be the AFL's level 4 coaching course ... but it's probably not a good look to send a senior coach on a coaching course.

That thinking - blaming the players for not executing the gameplan - is reminiscent of Pagan and Malthouse and I would like to think that Teague is more flexible and innovative than those two.
I'm pretty sure Teague has done the coaching course.

I can't see the link, but someone with HS access might be able to confirm...
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/six-assistants-locked-in-for-afls-level-4-coaching-course-as-they-eye-senior-gig/news-story/640055e06e7f6d7ab74ac4f56502365b

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #108
We were still making the same basic defensive errors under Bolts Paul.  In fact, we've been making them since the turn of the century  :(

It goes without saying that a team near the bottom for most of the last 20 years will have defensive issues, but the character and tone of the current situation seems different to me. Whatever grumps our players had with game plans / personalities of DP, MM and Bolts, the issues were deeper than structural IMO in those times. To my eyes, CFC June 2019 is pretty much the same as CFC June 2021, and whatever defensive issues we have now are principally structural in nature, and no one seems to be able overcome them. If our players still can't execute Teague's rather basic game plan after 2 1/2 seasons.....................

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #109
It goes without saying that a team near the bottom for most of the last 20 years will have defensive issues, but the character and tone of the current situation seems different to me. Whatever grumps our players had with game plans / personalities of DP, MM and Bolts, the issues were deeper than structural IMO in those times. To my eyes, CFC June 2019 is pretty much the same as CFC June 2021, and whatever defensive issues we have now are principally structural in nature, and no one seems to be able overcome them. If our players still can't execute Teague's rather basic game plan after 2 1/2 seasons.....................

It's not that the players can't execute the game plan, it's more that the players are lacking a basic understanding of positioning to guard territory and nullify opponents.  Newman's spectacular and dangerous attempt to mark in our last game is a prime example.  Rather than ball watching and flying with the flight, he should have been focused on stopping his opponent getting the ball.

And it's not just at the defensive end!  Power's comments about having to teach Cuningham his starting positions is an indictment of our player development and all coaches in the Bolts/Teague era.  Similarly, our haphazard forward fifty entries and key forward leading patterns that are as calculated as the last steps of a headless chook are not failures to execute a game plan, they're failures of development, coaching and on field leadership.  In my previous post, I wondered about how good Weiters would be if he played for Richmond.  How good would Harry be if he played for Melbourne?
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #110
I'm pretty sure Teague has done the coaching course.

I can't see the link, but someone with HS access might be able to confirm...
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/six-assistants-locked-in-for-afls-level-4-coaching-course-as-they-eye-senior-gig/news-story/640055e06e7f6d7ab74ac4f56502365b


You could be right, but his name isn't on the last list of all Level 4 graduates that I have seen.  The AFL seems to have backed away from it's intention to make the Level 4 mandatory for senior coaches.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #111
I think it's the latter Paul.

Every time I watch our games on TV, the expert comments blokes have a picnic on our poor defensive set ups, players ball-watching, poor positioning (or players badly out of position), not recognising opposition players' strengths (ie allowing left footers to get on their left), ad nauseum.  Bolts had a more defensive gameplan but those same problems were still evident.

It's my belief that our players have never learned how to play AFL team defence and, consequently, we rely on individual efforts and winning one on one contests.  Imagine how good Weiters would be if he was in Richmond's backline with five blokes who know how to play team defence.

I'm not sure that it's something that coaches can fix, although they should be able to address the basics.  I can't help but think that our defence would more effective if we had beaten Brisbane to Luke Hodge.  Daisy may have played a similar role, but not with the same impact and effectiveness.

Anyway, I hope Teague reads the article and takes some action to fix the problems.

Very easy to pick apart what went wrong with replays.

Reality is there's two teams determining that.
Yes guys, it's the old adage, "if you want to win, first you have to make sure you don't lose".

The art of war by sun tsu's lessons vary but you need to know a lot.

Here is one quote:

Standing on the defensive indicates insufficient strength; attacking, a superabundance of strength.

He did also state:

If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. #

Chang Yu said: "Knowing the enemy enables you to take the offensive, knowing yourself enables you to stand on the defensive." He adds: "Attack is the secret of defense; defense is the planning of an attack." It would be hard to find a better epitome of the root-principle of war.

I think we are still learning about ourselves which is why I'm not worried about opposition focus.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #112
Very easy to pick apart what went wrong with replays.

Reality is there's two teams determining that.
The art of war by sun tsu's lessons vary but you need to know a lot.

Here is one quote:

Standing on the defensive indicates insufficient strength; attacking, a superabundance of strength.

He did also state:

If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. #

Chang Yu said: "Knowing the enemy enables you to take the offensive, knowing yourself enables you to stand on the defensive." He adds: "Attack is the secret of defense; defense is the planning of an attack." It would be hard to find a better epitome of the root-principle of war.

I think we are still learning about ourselves which is why I'm not worried about opposition focus.

Who is watching replays Thry?  I don't, and I suspect that our players and coaches don't watch them either.

Sun Tzu was a smart cookie, but he knew nothing about footy.  I'd prefer to listen to the likes of Luke Hodge and Jimmy Bartel; they know what they're talking about.

And it's not about opposition focus, it's about football basics in 2021.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

 

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #113
Who is watching replays Thry?  I don't, and I suspect that our players and coaches don't watch them either.

Sun Tzu was a smart cookie, but he knew nothing about footy.  I'd prefer to listen to the likes of Luke Hodge and Jimmy Bartel; they know what they're talking about.

And it's not about opposition focus, it's about football basics in 2021.

Nah I was thinking about how we setup, what the goal is, and what actually occurs are two very different beasts.

They are happy to look at what doesnt work defensively, but ignore the fact that defense and offense are linked in different ways. 

I.e.  we setup offensively instead of defensively, and then our opposition has to win the contest to exploit that.  If we setup defensively, then even if we win the contest we can't make use of it and our opposition are still going to setup to take advantage of that.


Our team suffers from mentality issues not execution problems.

You change the way you setup and it makes life harder for both of you.  We don't need to make it harder for ourselves to score just to limit the damage if we are beaten. 

Those same experts were lauding Mitch Duncan setting up offensive side of the contest against Richmond which works to exploit them setting up offensively.

If Geelong are doing this then what we need to do is getting better at recognising when to do what. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #114
Our team suffers from mentality issues not execution problems.
It does not have to be one or the other, it can be both, and one can be contributing to the other like a feedback loop! ;D
The Force Awakens!

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #115
Weather is lousy. Windy and intermittent rain. Should be an ugly old scrap.

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #116
It does not have to be one or the other, it can be both, and one can be contributing to the other like a feedback loop! ;D

Very true.

Still, id rather we make teams beat us in an effort to beat them, rather than lineup to negate them hoping to win.

Its a small but poignant change in philosophy.   Of course we can always do both, but thats about learning about situations.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #117
Newnes is our sub. Ash for the Giants.

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #118
Newnes is our sub. Ash for the Giants.
Surely we can use the med sub on someone other this bloke.
A kid? Help the ex skipper crawl to 300.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Pre game Premonitions: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #119
Surely we can use the med sub on someone other this bloke.
A kid? Help the ex skipper crawl to 300.
Are we a charity?

Newnes can cover just about anyone should we get an injury besides the talls.
Imagine Murphy having to cover a half back flank injury?

Send a good lesson to the entire list. Do the 1%ers and you'll get picked. Don't and you won't.....regardless of how many games you've played.