Skip to main content
Topic: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS (Read 8823 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #75
There are a lot of Plow cynics around here, has anyone besides me noticed him missing?

Personally, I think he was exactly what we needed yesterday.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #76
Dow lead Carlton players with 4 centre clearances, 5 total clearances, 7 ground ball gets (2nd to Walsh with 8) and 9 contested possessions (4th).

When he is allowed to play in the middle, he can win the football.    

The issue is when he has the football.    I would play him in the middle for the remainder of the season.
13 possies@54% for Dow.... Its not good enough vs his equivalent Hopper.
I know fans want to love him but he is still a long way off imo.

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #77
Does anyone else feel just a little bit embarrassed when someone asks who they barrack for?
I feel my  credibility in football conversations is diminished soon as the words Carlton come from my lips!
Even worse my son and grandkids follow their mothers team Essendon 😩
My father used to say about supporting the Blues that they always give us a good run for our money
he passed away in 2000 I’m glad he hasn’t seen the last 20 years he would have changed his mind.
I stopped giving the club membership money when they bought in Malthouse I can find other ways to waste it

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #78
There are a lot of Plow cynics around here, has anyone besides me noticed him missing?

Personally, I think he was exactly what we needed yesterday.

He doesn’t change the last 3 losses mate.

Like so many others we say we miss when they are out and then complain and want him dropped when he costs us goals.

Just more excuses.

More shuffling the deck chairs.

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #79
What can you say. Three weeks of derision in the media and they don't turn up to play. They don't care so why should we. They lie to the Club, they lie to their supporters, they lie to the Members, they lie to the sponsors, they lie to the media, they lie to their team mates and they lie to themselves. We don't lack pace, we lack the willingness to run hard. we not incapable of defending we just lack the will to defend. It is said the standard you walk past is the standard you accept. Our players don't walk past they saunter past like they are on a Sunday stroll. Coaches will lose their jobs, administrators will lose their jobs and players will lose their jobs because the players don't care. Murphy will miss out on 300 games because despite being a great servant of the Club, a great team mate and a great player, his team mates are not willing to make the sacrifices to help carry him there.
The last goal GWS kicked demonstrated the total lack of respect the football world has for Carlton. It was pathetic. They don't turn up and then in a ten minute display they get within two goals, the ball goes back to the middle and in a clearance Carlton must win, or at least draw, they give away a soft free kick, an unmanned GWS strolls past, kicks to a spot and a GWS virtually takes an uncontested mark. We get back to two goals in the last quarter, Harry takes a mark, twenty five meters out, it's a goal he has to kick but misses, gets another kick which he needs to kick to keep us in the game but kicks wildly and the ball misses the goals by twenty meters. These things aren't skill errors but application errors. It is not important enough to McKay to kick the goals. He is leading the Coleman, why does he have to win us the game as well. Silvagni had a quiet game, however twice he got free in the forward line and twice the delivery was poor, once by Docherty and once someone kicked it over his head and out of bounds on the full. These two opportunities could have change the story around Silvagni. On the flip side, when he shoots for goal with a set shot he has pushed the ball right all season, he seems to use the same routine and gets the same result. Is it the traning, how he practices or does he simply not care.
We don't play out the match, we don't play out the quarters and we don't play out the minutes during the match. we don't run to support our teammates, we don't run to support our team mates, we don't run to create space, we don't run to shut down the opposition, we hesitate to make decisions, we make poor decisions, we don't protect ball, we miss targets, we fumble, we fall over, we miss tackles, we don't block, we don't kick to advantage and we don't care.

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #80
What can you say. Three weeks of derision in the media and they don't turn up to play. They don't care so why should we. They lie to the Club, they lie to their supporters, they lie to the Members, they lie to the sponsors, they lie to the media, they lie to their team mates and they lie to themselves. We don't lack pace, we lack the willingness to run hard. we not incapable of defending we just lack the will to defend. It is said the standard you walk past is the standard you accept. Our players don't walk past they saunter past like they are on a Sunday stroll. Coaches will lose their jobs, administrators will lose their jobs and players will lose their jobs because the players don't care. Murphy will miss out on 300 games because despite being a great servant of the Club, a great team mate and a great player, his team mates are not willing to make the sacrifices to help carry him there.
The last goal GWS kicked demonstrated the total lack of respect the football world has for Carlton. It was pathetic. They don't turn up and then in a ten minute display they get within two goals, the ball goes back to the middle and in a clearance Carlton must win, or at least draw, they give away a soft free kick, an unmanned GWS strolls past, kicks to a spot and a GWS virtually takes an uncontested mark. We get back to two goals in the last quarter, Harry takes a mark, twenty five meters out, it's a goal he has to kick but misses, gets another kick which he needs to kick to keep us in the game but kicks wildly and the ball misses the goals by twenty meters. These things aren't skill errors but application errors. It is not important enough to McKay to kick the goals. He is leading the Coleman, why does he have to win us the game as well. Silvagni had a quiet game, however twice he got free in the forward line and twice the delivery was poor, once by Docherty and once someone kicked it over his head and out of bounds on the full. These two opportunities could have change the story around Silvagni. On the flip side, when he shoots for goal with a set shot he has pushed the ball right all season, he seems to use the same routine and gets the same result. Is it the traning, how he practices or does he simply not care.
We don't play out the match, we don't play out the quarters and we don't play out the minutes during the match. we don't run to support our teammates, we don't run to support our team mates, we don't run to create space, we don't run to shut down the opposition, we hesitate to make decisions, we make poor decisions, we don't protect ball, we miss targets, we fumble, we fall over, we miss tackles, we don't block, we don't kick to advantage and we don't care.
I agree with all you have written, but one thing I would find difficult is accusing a Silvagni of not caring. Accuse them of anything else but not that. Perhaps he is the only one there who does in fact care.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #81
There are a lot of Plow cynics around here, has anyone besides me noticed him missing?

Personally, I think he was exactly what we needed yesterday.
LP, I reckon you would find that a majority of Plows knockers have never been anywhere  near a football boot.

He's been in the top 5 or 6 players in the B and F the last few years .
While the judges are not the greatest coaches, they have all played a lot of footy.

Plow is a very handy player for us.

I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #82
LP, I reckon you would find that a majority of Plows knockers have never been anywhere  near a football boot.

He's been in the top 5 or 6 players in the B and F the last few years .
While the judges are not the greatest coaches, they have all played a lot of footy.

Plow is a very handy player for us.


Top 5 or 6 in our B&F for sure, where does he rate in the AFL? I would doubt he rates high amongst the leagues top defenders but Ill stand corrected.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #83
So how come we have t heard much from those who wanted to hang their hat on waiting till we played the winnable games in the softer part of draw - How is that idea faring?

We played Sydney who I would have rated as very winnable and lost, then played a west coast 2nds team and lost and then this week played a team outside the 8 and never looked remotely like winning.

Hiding reality in excuses eventually gets found out. Same as the injury excuses BS. That’s another one we are proving as BS. Now I’m hearing we may be losing cause plowman is not playing! Or do we need to just be patient till Charlie gets back and rips the competition apart. Or Maybe it’s Marchbank we miss badly.

Time to call it as it is - we fans overrated our list and are still miles off a final 8 team and the rebuild is a fail.

Our club on every level is still very much bottom end and our results this year confirm that.

Enough excuses.

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #84
The last 3 weeks have really shone a light on where we are and there can be NO hiding from it - for the Board, the Exec, the Football Dept and the Players [especially the Leadership Group].

We were sitting 12th at 4 wins and 6 losses but coming off a win. About to play the teams sitting 6th, 7th and 8th at the time. All 3 of those teams had been inconsistent to date [like us]. Our season well and truly on the line and about to hit the road together. The club [and the whole rebuild] about to be face it's most serious examination. A few players coming back from injury so absolutely no excuses and no where to hide.

The total and abject failure of the Coaches and the Senior Players over the last 4 weeks has been staggering. I have watched it all up close live. The overall performance has been insipid and lacking in every department - no one should be above scrutiny such has been the scale of the capitulation. The problems are deep seated and wide spread, and we have effectively shown zero improvement or progress despite years or rebuilding. Our strategy and game plan [if we had one] has utterly failed and shown to be fraudulent at the first real test. Just like it had done in the 6 earlier games against decent football teams. It should shake the very foundations of the club, starting with the Board.

Analysing the  individual players is pointless as the problem is existential - what does the Club, and this playing group, stand for? At the moment this is not clear. Winning games of football, competitiveness, hunger for success, uncompromising effort, and having the respect of your opponents [both individually and collectively] for how hard you are to play SHOULD be our core Mission - but right now we have none of this as a collective. They look lost, they play without hunger or heart, and they look like they don't even care that they don't have any of those things. The Club and the Playing group have zero respect.

From the outside looking in it is impossible to know what the internal assessment is of where they are at, their acceptance of the problems and how they think that they will address it and try and turn it around. In professional sport when the pressure comes the Coach is always the first one in the cross hairs and this will be no different. He is ultimately responsible for the wins and losses and the overall effort and attitude of the team. Right now that is deplorable, and nothing Teague has said or done over the last 4 weeks gives me any hope that things will change next week or over the next 8 weeks. Some might think that harsh, and that we are going back to the poisoned well looking for a messiah, but keeping on doing the same thing and expecting a different result is madness.


Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #85
LP....said it on a couple of Instagram posts about how badly we've missed Plowman and have been howled down. I've not been a huge fan of his because of some of his turnovers, but he is one small/medium defender who does actually try and defend. It's embarrassing that we've got Saad, Williams and Docherty and none of them want to defend....so we throw that task to Stocker. At times last night Stocker looked to be running through the midfield and IMHO was one of our better players and one of only a few that actually had a crack.

For the glass half full supporters, can someone give me a reason why, after all of the scrutiny of the last fortnight on all aspects of the club, how it is that we can turn up and produce that crap in the first half? It was no different to the first 20 minutes of the WCE game....no pressure, no intensity, just letting opposition players waltz around as they liked and spot up loose targets. It was only blokes like Stocker, Owies, JSOS and Pittonet actually showing some intent and aggression.....hardly the leaders of the club. I know JSOS has issues with his goalkicking but I doubt there's many that work as hard as him.

And Walsh had De Boer crawling up his backside yet I didn't see anyone come in and help...try to block for him...or do anything to help. That tells me there's definite lack of leadership out on the ground.

It's always hard watching just on TV but the number of times Saad was just running around guarding space and refusing to pick up an opponent was worrying. He might've had small/medium defenders at Essendon who could actually defend which gave him the freedom to run and bounce and zone off....unfortunately we don't have that luxury.

We are destined for another bottom 4 finish and it's now nearly 6 years since the rebuild/mega draft of 2015. In that time we've also brought in big name recruits like McGovern, Martin, Saad and Williams and we are still nowhere near it. If Murphy isn't being gifted games to get to 300 based on form, then Martin and Williams should be playing in the VFL next week.

At times on the screen last night, even Cripps looked like he'd given up....the umpires didn't help his cause...they just don't like him for some reason. And when your co-captain is handling the ball like a piece of soap, there's not much else leadership out there.

I'm not for/against sacking Teague either way, but it's got a feeling of inevitability about it now. It looks similar to the last few weeks under Bolton where there was a clear disconnect between coaches and players. If there is a game plan, then either it's not being communicated properly or the players aren't getting it or just don't want to adhere to it.

And as a few others have pointed out, Stanton can clear out his desk tomorrow and f#ck right off. I failed to see anything funny about that effort last night.

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #86
He doesn’t change the last 3 losses mate.
There is no one player who can, anyone who thinks or expects one player to change everything has missed the point.

You don't stop trying to be better just because you can't be perfect, looking for perfection hinders progress.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #87
Too many half back flanker that cant/don't defend. 

Saad, Williams, Newman and Docherty.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #88
13 possies@54% for Dow.... Its not good enough vs his equivalent Hopper.
I know fans want to love him but he is still a long way off imo.

100% agree.   I am certainly not saying he is there or even that he is best 22.    Just that one element of his game is actually pretty good and the rest needs work.

Hooper is 3 years older than Dow.

 

Re: Post Game Frustrations: AFL 2021 Rd 14: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #89
Dow has to play every week so we can actually make a call on him.
SPS too. We drafted these guys now back them in.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!