http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/identifying-carltons-no1-problem-20130712-2pvq3.html
This articcle in today's Age does give good comments in relation to our on-field plight in many ways... and wholeheartedly supports Ye Sheikness in declaring in one of his summaries that we have no A graders ...yet we should have loads.
Before we venture to the draft again, we really need to examine our development and recruiting and address why our 1st rounders aren't delivering on potential and our propensity to recruit nuffs.
(Yes, I realise on the old website we covered a lot of this and there are have been threads dealing with this huge issue, but maybe now lets really hone in and focus on this... as is the media)
People have short memories. Malthouse has conned everyone - two weeks ago Walker was AA now we have no one. Murphy is an A grader, he's had injury issues but he'll come good. As Kreuzer said himself, the start of his career was excellent, he's struggling to deal with knees and hips. Waite kicked 7 goals less than a month ago. Carrots is the best one on one mid in the game but again injury worries. Opposition teams have stated they put lots of time thinking about how to stop Yarran.
screw me, we went from a team missing a key forward and a poor bottom six to nothing decent in no time.
People have short memories. Malthouse has conned everyone - two weeks ago Walker was AA now we have no one. Murphy is an A grader, he's had injury issues but he'll come good. As Kreuzer said himself, the start of his career was excellent, he's struggling to deal with knees and hips. Waite kicked 7 goals less than a month ago. Carrots is the best one on one mid in the game but again injury worries. Opposition teams have stated they put lots of time thinking about how to stop Yarran.
screw me, we went from a team missing a key forward and a poor bottom six to nothing decent in no time.
So what are your thoughts on our development & recruiting? :)
As Kreuzer said himself, the start of his career was excellent, he's struggling to deal with knees and hips.
Just remember the club was well aware of K's bad hips at the time of drafting when a few "experts" said they would give him a miss because of it.
I don't think recruitment is the key issue, I'm more disappointed with development of some of our picks.
He makes a couple of obvious points but his credibility is pretty ordinary given his lack of ability to identify what a club needs to rebuild, develop etc.
Better read is Roos article in the picture paper. He says we could have traded early picks and may have won a premiership by now, but he goes on to say "to blame the recruiting dept is a cop-out. On the list of current problems recruiting is a long way down." He's basically saying that the over conservative game plan is stalling the team, and lists other issues that need addressing on field.
People have short memories. Malthouse has conned everyone - two weeks ago Walker was AA now we have no one. Murphy is an A grader, he's had injury issues but he'll come good. As Kreuzer said himself, the start of his career was excellent, he's struggling to deal with knees and hips. Waite kicked 7 goals less than a month ago. Carrots is the best one on one mid in the game but again injury worries. Opposition teams have stated they put lots of time thinking about how to stop Yarran.
screw me, we went from a team missing a key forward and a poor bottom six to nothing decent in no time.
So what are your thoughts on our development & recruiting? :)
Shizen* but to say we have absolutely zero A grade talent at our club is rubbish.
I forgot to a small forwards who is in the best two or three small forwards in the competition and a defender who also was talked about in AA form.
EDIT: *That's my gut feeling. I guess we'd have to look at how the rest of the competition is going against us to really understand where we sit. I don't agree with the sit on our hands strategy of trading and not getting involved in FA though.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/identifying-carltons-no1-problem-20130712-2pvq3.html
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/identifying-carltons-no1-problem-20130712-2pvq3.html
Paul, this article is already featured in the following thread..
http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=102.0 (http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=102.0)
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/identifying-carltons-no1-problem-20130712-2pvq3.html
Paul, this article is already featured in the following thread..
http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=102.0 (http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=102.0)
Thanks Big Jack - I had a quick scan of the forums prior to posting, but obviously it was too quick.
I don't think recruitment is the key issue, I'm more disappointed with development of some of our picks.
He makes a couple of obvious points but his credibility is pretty ordinary given his lack of ability to identify what a club needs to rebuild, develop etc.
Better read is Roos article in the picture paper. He says we could have traded early picks and may have won a premiership by now, but he goes on to say "to blame the recruiting dept is a cop-out. On the list of current problems recruiting is a long way down." He's basically saying that the over conservative game plan is stalling the team, and lists other issues that need addressing on field.
Goat,
do you have a link for the Roos article ?
I read it in print this morning and wasn't online. Found it now in the subscription section of the small paper online.
HS 12/7/2013
WHILE no coach likes to lose, Carlton and Richmond's results would have especially stung their respective coaches last week.
After a defeat where nothing seemed to go right, the coach must be quick to collect his thoughts. The most dangerous period of the week - and, in fact, a coach's career - can be directly after a shock.
The walk from the coach's box to the changerooms is long and this time must be used to compose yourself and work through what you will say to the team.
Many thoughts are running through your head, including what the assistant coaches would have said during the game - mostly uncomplimentary - to the players.
However, I found the best course of action is to say nothing because there is often nothing positive to say.
All coaches know once you start to open your mouth it is hard to shut it and it is in these moments that relationships can be permanently broken. The other upside to saying nothing is it gives you breathing space to look at the game closely and have a much clearer picture of what went wrong.
Both coaches would be asking themselves if the result was an aberration or there were some worrying trends that need to be addressed.
Damien Hardwick could justify stamping the North Melbourne game "aberration", but not Mick Malthouse after the loss to Collingwood.
Carlton appears to have some serious problems. I had the Blues comfortably finishing in the eight and, if their best 22 was fit and available, as it has been for most of the year, pushing for top four.
Yet this week's discussion has centred on the Blues' list and its "many holes". How can a team that has had so many early draft picks claim to have a poor list?
Most of those players taken with early picks were rated extremely highly by all recruiters. Clearly the Blues have made some list management errors and, if they had traded some early picks, might have won a premiership by now.
However, to blame their recruiting department is a cop-out. On the list of current problems recruiting is a long way down.
The game against the Magpies again exposed a number of areas that have become a worry for Mick.
In the past four games, the Blues have punished just 16 per cent of opposition turnovers with a score, the second-lowest percentage of any team.
It would appear the Blues' down-the-line, conservative approach is stalling the team.
It is something Mick talked about earlier in the season and I'm sure it would have been a source of discussion this week among the coaching staff.
The Blues have trailed at three-quarter time on six occasions this season and have failed to finish in front in any of these games.
Is this a result of poor fitness or, again, because of the struggle the team is having with conservative ball use?
Carlton has the second-worst kicking efficiency in the defensive 50 this season, again, a worrying trend.
Mick must continue to work on the game plan and develop the list. There should be no talk of 2014 and trading until he can determine what this group can do.
I suspect the group is capable of much better than it has produced and that is the coach's test.
The Tigers, on the other hand, are competent in most areas - if not a standout - and that's why Damien would have looked at last week's game as something out of the ordinary.
Ironically, they had 73 tackles against North and this is their weakest area (54 average).
The Tigers have done a lot right this year and I will be looking closely to see how they bounce back today against Gold Coast, a team they have never beaten.
Love the way Roosy thinks. Hard to argue with anything he wrote (that GOAT posted above).
And although Lyon is not in the same category as Roosy I still believe his comments re our 1st rounders deserves objective examination.
We do seem to not be as fit as other sides when the heat is on for the entire game, or, put another way, playing a top side.
We are too nice but when some of our blokes attempt to be tough, they do something dumb and get reported.
When top clubs lose a key player it doesn't seem to weaken them all that much... we lose someone important in a game and go to pieces.
Really seems that a good number of our supposed A graders just don't take the next step. When the chips are down it is still Juddy who attempts to pull us over the line... is there no other on-field leader at our club who can lift and inspire (in fact, the entire list should feel empowered enough to lead on the field!!!!!)?
With the exception of Casboult, our other ruckmen must be amongst the nicest in the competition.
IMHO, it comes down to on-field culture (or lack thereof) and too much ($$$$) comfort behind the scenes, ie Assistant coaches not knowledgeable enough; not hungry enough; not communicating well enough and so on. Development staff... see Assistant coaches.
I do not believe we need a rebuild and to start from scratch etc. But we do need a vigorous, wire-headed broom to sweep through the place... on and off the field. Mostly off. I reckon some very strong trading at year's end to get in some hard it types; extroverted, could help some of the A graders take the next step... along with 2 tall forwards who can actually lead hard and catch the damn thing!!
To be an A grader you need to be good every week...Mitchell, Jobe, Pendlebury, Gazza, Judd(when at his peak), J. Selwood, Bartel, Cotchin, Martin......even Swan....they dont have many bad games, we dont have enough of those players who can be good most weeks at an A grade level...Kruezer can be handy but has played probably 2-3 A grade games in his life, ditto to Gibbs.
Murphy and Judd when in his prime are the only players who we have who consistently knocked out A grade games and with Murphy now getting the best tagger thats not going happen too often and Judd struggles to impact on games even when getting the footy and working hard.
You need 3-4 of your best players performing at A grade output every week to be a threat......we dont have that.
I read it in print this morning and wasn't online. Found it now in the subscription section of the small paper online.
HS 12/7/2013
WHILE no coach likes to lose, Carlton and Richmond's results would have especially stung their respective coaches last week.
After a defeat where nothing seemed to go right, the coach must be quick to collect his thoughts. The most dangerous period of the week - and, in fact, a coach's career - can be directly after a shock.
The walk from the coach's box to the changerooms is long and this time must be used to compose yourself and work through what you will say to the team.
Many thoughts are running through your head, including what the assistant coaches would have said during the game - mostly uncomplimentary - to the players.
However, I found the best course of action is to say nothing because there is often nothing positive to say.
All coaches know once you start to open your mouth it is hard to shut it and it is in these moments that relationships can be permanently broken. The other upside to saying nothing is it gives you breathing space to look at the game closely and have a much clearer picture of what went wrong.
Both coaches would be asking themselves if the result was an aberration or there were some worrying trends that need to be addressed.
Damien Hardwick could justify stamping the North Melbourne game "aberration", but not Mick Malthouse after the loss to Collingwood.
Carlton appears to have some serious problems. I had the Blues comfortably finishing in the eight and, if their best 22 was fit and available, as it has been for most of the year, pushing for top four.
Yet this week's discussion has centred on the Blues' list and its "many holes". How can a team that has had so many early draft picks claim to have a poor list?
Most of those players taken with early picks were rated extremely highly by all recruiters. Clearly the Blues have made some list management errors and, if they had traded some early picks, might have won a premiership by now.
However, to blame their recruiting department is a cop-out. On the list of current problems recruiting is a long way down.
The game against the Magpies again exposed a number of areas that have become a worry for Mick.
In the past four games, the Blues have punished just 16 per cent of opposition turnovers with a score, the second-lowest percentage of any team.
It would appear the Blues' down-the-line, conservative approach is stalling the team.
It is something Mick talked about earlier in the season and I'm sure it would have been a source of discussion this week among the coaching staff.
The Blues have trailed at three-quarter time on six occasions this season and have failed to finish in front in any of these games.
Is this a result of poor fitness or, again, because of the struggle the team is having with conservative ball use?
Carlton has the second-worst kicking efficiency in the defensive 50 this season, again, a worrying trend.
Mick must continue to work on the game plan and develop the list. There should be no talk of 2014 and trading until he can determine what this group can do.
I suspect the group is capable of much better than it has produced and that is the coach's test.
The Tigers, on the other hand, are competent in most areas - if not a standout - and that's why Damien would have looked at last week's game as something out of the ordinary.
Ironically, they had 73 tackles against North and this is their weakest area (54 average).
The Tigers have done a lot right this year and I will be looking closely to see how they bounce back today against Gold Coast, a team they have never beaten.
Thanks for that Goat.
Maybe I have my own way of reading that piece (and like most of these guys, Roos keeps it a bit ambiguous), but in the main, I read that as a swipe at Malthouse.
Obviously, the bolded highlights are my own.
Murphy and Judd when in his prime are the only players who we have who consistently knocked out A grade games and with Murphy now getting the best tagger thats not going happen too often and Judd struggles to impact on games even when getting the footy and working hard.
Aside from Gibbs, I think the prime reason we haven't seen consistent performances is these guys can't stay out on the park. Talent wise, I think we have enough good players (though we need a key forward and 3 - 4 of the guys won't be there in 3 years), it's the bottom end and injuries that kills us.
You need 3-4 of your best players performing at A grade output every week to be a threat......we dont have that.
Agree but you need the bottom 6 contributing and not putting in junk games each week. I don't care if you have 4 players blitz it, if you have 6 others contribute nothing then it's going to be ugly against any half talented side. Yeah, you'll smash the bottom 8 but against top 4? Won't happen.
And I'm sure if you look at Carlton's best each game for the past 3-5 years you will see the same names week in, week out. When have you ever seen a cameo 5 goals or 25 touches from a Carlton player?
Reminds me very much of the early 90s St Kilda who had Harvey, Winmar, Bourke, Lockett, Lowe, Frawley (didn't rate Frawley myself but okay player) but continued to miss finals because the rest of the team was rubbish.
Turns out we have nothing to worry about. Sticks announced yesterday that our list is very good and that we have all the right people in place. So, all is good at CFC land, phew...
OK, here is a new take on the development and recruiting side of things...
I have 2 lists, with 9 players in each.
Top 20 draft picks drafted by CARLTON and still on Carltons list. (Games played)
Walker (156)
Murphy (155)
Gibbs (145)
Kreuzer (99)
Yarran (74)
Hampson (63)
Lucas (31)
Watson (11)
Menzel (2)
TOTAL: 736
Now here is another list (games played)
Betts (174)
Carrazzo (160)
Jamison (101)
Garlett (90)
Joseph (72)
Tuohy (44)
Curnow (41)
Ellard (38)
White (26)
Total: 746
So what is the second list? They are all players who started off as rookies!
So, i pose this question to you...
If we have got more games out of our rookies then we have out of our top 20 picks, does that mean we have poor development or excellent development? ???
Our rookies are developing.
Our Top 20 picks are not ?
In fairness there are a few more (former) rookies with less games on our list....Casboult (13), Bell (11), Cachia (9), Okeefe (3), Dale (2). Having said that we only recently got rid of both Thornton (188) and Ohailpin (81) who were both rookies compared to Russell (116) who was a top 20 draft pick as well. So the pattern continues.
That's the mystery kruds. The rookies come on pretty well but those second round plus picks seem to be okay at best. You can't get them all right but it feels our strike rate with those players is poor.
So maybe in the past we put more attention into those we rookie (out of mind out of sight scenario ?), than those in the spotlight with the all eyes gazing upon them.... :-\
I didn't think Betts was a Rookie, I thought he was from the PSD, but I digress...
I think that there will always be some players that come through late and play some games and everyone says "gee how was he missed". Our games played per pick ratio would be a lot higher for 1st round picks than it would be for rookies or any other draft round, so I am not sure why we are comparing.
What is of a bigger concern to me is that we absolutely have a different structure at the club when we get the guys we get and they don't go on to achieve as much as at other clubs. Only a portion of that can be done to the quality of the footballer, the other element has to be the quality of the football club.
.
Do the following ex-players all stand out as exceptional coaches we would have loved to get out hands on?
Stuart Dew
Leigh Tudor
John Blakey
Henry Playfair (development)
Stuart Maxfield (development)
I can see it right now, if at the same time Sydney signed any of these coaches we had instead signed them... There would have been talk about them being underwhelming signings, yet Sydney know what fits their mold and they go after it.
The following players are recycled players at Sydney
Rhyce Shaw (Twice runner-up B&F, premiership player)
Ted Richards (AA, B&F Runner up, premiership player)
Ben McGlynn (Top 10 B&F, should have been a premiership player, bar finals injury)
Martin Mattner (Premiership player)
Josh Kennedy (AA, B&F Winner, premiership player, top 10 in Brownlow out and out gun!!)
Mitch Morton (premiership player :o)
Shane Mumford (Shortlist AA, premiership player)
Others to play in last years premiership
| Player | Drafted |
| Sam Reid | 38 National Draft |
| Luke Parker | 40 National Draft |
| Adam Goodes | 43 National Draft |
| Ryan O'Keefe | 56 National Draft |
| Alex Johnson | 57 National Draft |
| Craig Bird | 58 National Draft |
| Nick Malceski | 64 National Draft |
| Nick Smith | 15 Rookie Draft |
| Heath Grundy | 42 Rookie Draft |
| Kieran Jack | 57 Rookie Draft |
| Mike Pyke | 57 Rookie Draft |
That is 17 of last years side traded for (usually for next to nothing) or taken in the round 3 or later of the draft. There has to be one side that is identifying those talents, but there has to be another side that develops them and that is where I think we are letting ourselves down. Sydney has also selected plenty of players that have not gone on to make it as well and overlooked players better than what they have taken, but I would not mind betting that they could have had a number of these players swapped out for others and the ones they took would have had better careers at Sydney. They have a development model and I would suggest they stick quite rigidly to it. The 'no d1ckheads' policy wasn't just a catchphrase it was fair dinkum.
Something at Carlton certainly has to change. We are a club that has not been a genuine 'force' since the 90s and I agree with Roos in saying that I doubt it comes down to recruiting as the key element.
So what is the club doing? It needs to probably scrap the whole 'we are Carlton f*ck the rest' policy, stop with the public statements and just go about getting all of the basics right, all the way through the club. I am sick of watching tripe week after week. Play the Sydney 'moneyball' approach with regards to trying to hit the right recycled players. Just about everyone that has traded to Sydney, they have gotten more out of that player than what they have paid for them.
Fair post this one.....Mike Pyke stands out in terms of development...was the biggest dud in the league and couldnt play the game at all but now is No 1 ruck and a very good player who has mastered the basics very well.
The Swans never bottom out and they must be doing something right regardless of any salary cap advantages....
I didn't think Betts was a Rookie, I thought he was from the PSD, but I digress...
I think that there will always be some players that come through late and play some games and everyone says "gee how was he missed". Our games played per pick ratio would be a lot higher for 1st round picks than it would be for rookies or any other draft round, so I am not sure why we are comparing.
What is of a bigger concern to me is that we absolutely have a different structure at the club when we get the guys we get and they don't go on to achieve as much as at other clubs. Only a portion of that can be done to the quality of the footballer, the other element has to be the quality of the football club.
.
Do the following ex-players all stand out as exceptional coaches we would have loved to get out hands on?
Stuart Dew
Leigh Tudor
John Blakey
Henry Playfair (development)
Stuart Maxfield (development)
I can see it right now, if at the same time Sydney signed any of these coaches we had instead signed them... There would have been talk about them being underwhelming signings, yet Sydney know what fits their mold and they go after it.
The following players are recycled players at Sydney
Rhyce Shaw (Twice runner-up B&F, premiership player)
Ted Richards (AA, B&F Runner up, premiership player)
Ben McGlynn (Top 10 B&F, should have been a premiership player, bar finals injury)
Martin Mattner (Premiership player)
Josh Kennedy (AA, B&F Winner, premiership player, top 10 in Brownlow out and out gun!!)
Mitch Morton (premiership player :o)
Shane Mumford (Shortlist AA, premiership player)
Others to play in last years premiership
| Player | Drafted |
| Sam Reid | 38 National Draft |
| Luke Parker | 40 National Draft |
| Adam Goodes | 43 National Draft |
| Ryan O'Keefe | 56 National Draft |
| Alex Johnson | 57 National Draft |
| Craig Bird | 58 National Draft |
| Nick Malceski | 64 National Draft |
| Nick Smith | 15 Rookie Draft |
| Heath Grundy | 42 Rookie Draft |
| Kieran Jack | 57 Rookie Draft |
| Mike Pyke | 57 Rookie Draft |
Something at Carlton certainly has to change. We are a club that has not been a genuine 'force' since the 90s and I agree with Roos in saying that I doubt it comes down to recruiting as the key element.
So what is the club doing? It needs to probably scrap the whole 'we are Carlton f*ck the rest' policy, stop with the public statements and just go about getting all of the basics right, all the way through the club. I am sick of watching tripe week after week. Play the Sydney 'moneyball' approach with regards to trying to hit the right recycled players. Just about everyone that has traded to Sydney, they have gotten more out of that player than what they have paid for them.
What an impressive post. Well done and we really appreciate the obvious serious effort you've put in.
Supports my hunch that there are recruiters who crunch numbers / stats (and ultimately play safe covering their dots)... and then there are those who have a superior level of intuition and know how to ask the right questions and seek those who best tick the right attitude / skill boxes AND fit the needs of their club.
I didn't think Betts was a Rookie, I thought he was from the PSD, but I digress...
I think that there will always be some players that come through late and play some games and everyone says "gee how was he missed". Our games played per pick ratio would be a lot higher for 1st round picks than it would be for rookies or any other draft round, so I am not sure why we are comparing.
What is of a bigger concern to me is that we absolutely have a different structure at the club when we get the guys we get and they don't go on to achieve as much as at other clubs. Only a portion of that can be done to the quality of the footballer, the other element has to be the quality of the football club.
.
Do the following ex-players all stand out as exceptional coaches we would have loved to get out hands on?
Stuart Dew
Leigh Tudor
John Blakey
Henry Playfair (development)
Stuart Maxfield (development)
I can see it right now, if at the same time Sydney signed any of these coaches we had instead signed them... There would have been talk about them being underwhelming signings, yet Sydney know what fits their mold and they go after it.
The following players are recycled players at Sydney
Rhyce Shaw (Twice runner-up B&F, premiership player)
Ted Richards (AA, B&F Runner up, premiership player)
Ben McGlynn (Top 10 B&F, should have been a premiership player, bar finals injury)
Martin Mattner (Premiership player)
Josh Kennedy (AA, B&F Winner, premiership player, top 10 in Brownlow out and out gun!!)
Mitch Morton (premiership player :o)
Shane Mumford (Shortlist AA, premiership player)
Others to play in last years premiership
| Player | Drafted |
| Sam Reid | 38 National Draft |
| Luke Parker | 40 National Draft |
| Adam Goodes | 43 National Draft |
| Ryan O'Keefe | 56 National Draft |
| Alex Johnson | 57 National Draft |
| Craig Bird | 58 National Draft |
| Nick Malceski | 64 National Draft |
| Nick Smith | 15 Rookie Draft |
| Heath Grundy | 42 Rookie Draft |
| Kieran Jack | 57 Rookie Draft |
| Mike Pyke | 57 Rookie Draft |
Something at Carlton certainly has to change. We are a club that has not been a genuine 'force' since the 90s and I agree with Roos in saying that I doubt it comes down to recruiting as the key element.
So what is the club doing? It needs to probably scrap the whole 'we are Carlton f*ck the rest' policy, stop with the public statements and just go about getting all of the basics right, all the way through the club. I am sick of watching tripe week after week. Play the Sydney 'moneyball' approach with regards to trying to hit the right recycled players. Just about everyone that has traded to Sydney, they have gotten more out of that player than what they have paid for them.
Top post M. We have a long way to go.
@MIO
A very telling post MIO, great work - hope Sticks and the board are reading it. ;)
Bootsma is a first round pick as well, only pushed out to >20 owing to the draft concessions handed out to GWS.
Grigg was also a top 20 pick and he has played a fair few of games as well. He is a decent contributor elsewhere.
Should he be considered as part of our drafting?
Great analysis re the Swans and Us.
The 'Talent Identification or Development' argument is very difficult to answer from the outside looking in. It is a bit of a chicken and egg discussion as well.
My concern with our recruiting is not only that the players we have drafted with our early picks haven't delivered [in terms of games or B&F performance], we haven't drafted to fill the obvious leadership void in the club. None of the 1st round draft picks since Murphy are even in the leadership group! All of the 1st round picks appear from the outside to be pretty introverted, and don't appear to be the types who impose themselves on either the playing group or games.
Bootsma, Watson, Yarran and Lucas are all players who appear as 'followers' rather than leaders on the field. None of them play with physical presence and the ability to impose themselves on games of football. Gibbs and Kruezer, while better players than that group, are also yet to reach a level where they consistently deliver A grade performances that impact the result of games. Juddy is still the one over the last few weeks who has willed himself contest after contest to try and lift the team.
Leadership skills are very hard to develop when there is a lack of good role models. However personality wise, not all players are suitable or interested in leading a group. This needs to be a critical factor in our decision making on recruitment choices, and if we can't find what we need within the draftees then we trade accordingly. It is no surprise to me that most of the best sides over the last few years [Swans, Pies, Hawks] have also been clearly the best at identifying deficiencies in their list and then trading and developing those players very well. This needs to change quickly if we are to improve the list in a meaningful way in a short space of time.
In fairness there are a few more (former) rookies with less games on our list....Casboult (13), Bell (11), Cachia (9), Okeefe (3), Dale (2). Having said that we only recently got rid of both Thornton (188) and Ohailpin (81) who were both rookies compared to Russell (116) who was a top 20 draft pick as well. So the pattern continues.[/size]
Very interesting list there Kruddler - well done. I would say this - where was the development then of the much vaunted late 1st to 3rd round selections of the draft? Why is it here we fail and we fail badly? That is development.
Is it the rookies are left to themselves to have to fight for a spot and largely this is done at Cramer St? Is the development coaches and time put into them is different from those rookies to the major selections? Why does this happen and why has it been happening repeatedly for the past 8-10 years?!?!?
I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.
In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?
Would come for nothing at least.
I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.
In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?
Would come for nothing at least.
Even if he did cost us nothing, my answer would still be NO.
I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.
In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?
Would come for nothing at least.
Even if he did cost us nothing, my answer would still be NO.
Any reason why?
From where I sit, he comes to us and becomes our 3rd best key forward and the only key forward on our list to have played in a grand final. Think about how Geelong used Brad Ottens in his last couple of years at the cattery.
I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.
In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?
Would come for nothing at least.
Even if he did cost us nothing, my answer would still be NO.
Any reason why?
From where I sit, he comes to us and becomes our 3rd best key forward and the only key forward on our list to have played in a grand final. Think about how Geelong used Brad Ottens in his last couple of years at the cattery.
No. He's cooked.
I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.
In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?
Would come for nothing at least.
Even if he did cost us nothing, my answer would still be NO.
Any reason why?
From where I sit, he comes to us and becomes our 3rd best key forward and the only key forward on our list to have played in a grand final. Think about how Geelong used Brad Ottens in his last couple of years at the cattery.
He'd be in our best 22, no doubt, but the question you have to ask is whether bringing in someone like that for 1 or 2 seasons would be the right thing for where we are at as a club?
Would bringing him in significantly enhance our Premiership prospects to a level that compensates for the roadblock it puts in front of our developing forwards?
If the club thinks Koschitzke would make us a Premiership contender, then go for it. If not, the he just sets us back as a club as it's less games into the kids coming through.
I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.
In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?
Would come for nothing at least.
Even if he did cost us nothing, my answer would still be NO.
Any reason why?
From where I sit, he comes to us and becomes our 3rd best key forward and the only key forward on our list to have played in a grand final. Think about how Geelong used Brad Ottens in his last couple of years at the cattery.
Overrated, under achieving player, coming from a club with a dubious culture. Never really grabbed a finals match by the scruff of the neck and stamped his authority on it. Too many head knocks. Near the end of his career etc...........
Many on here have been bagging him since he got drafted (not saying you're one of them btw).
I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.
In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?
Would come for nothing at least.
Even if he did cost us nothing, my answer would still be NO.
Any reason why?
From where I sit, he comes to us and becomes our 3rd best key forward and the only key forward on our list to have played in a grand final. Think about how Geelong used Brad Ottens in his last couple of years at the cattery.
No. He's cooked.
Kosi - she's a very dumb blonde to boot.
Big NO to Kosi, although on second thoughts he would be company for Waitey in the injury bay.
I just had an idea, its a bit bold, and many wont like it, but Im going to float it anyway.
In the event that we do trade away Hampson and Warnock, would anyone else think that Koschitzke would be of any value to us?
Would come for nothing at least.
Even if he did cost us nothing, my answer would still be NO.
Any reason why?
From where I sit, he comes to us and becomes our 3rd best key forward and the only key forward on our list to have played in a grand final. Think about how Geelong used Brad Ottens in his last couple of years at the cattery.
Overrated, under achieving player, coming from a club with a dubious culture. Never really grabbed a finals match by the scruff of the neck and stamped his authority on it. Too many head knocks. Near the end of his career etc...........
Many on here have been bagging him since he got drafted (not saying you're one of them btw).
No way.
I heard him on the radio before the game last saturday. From what he was saying, he's hoping just to eek out another couple of games!