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Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #90
Boydy makes a few blues, but he's not Robinson Crusoe there!

He works his butt off, has a bit of attitude and generally hits his targets.  Winning that free in the forward pocket and nailing the goal was reward for effort.

I didn't have him in my best 22 but EB reminded me of the job he did on Bailey in the prelim.  There's definitely room for improvement but, on form, he plays against Brisbane in Opening Round.
Boyd's attacking game was good vs Melbourne as Shawny suggested with some nice long entry passes but vs Brisbane Id like to see him revert more to being a lockdown player like he was in that prelim. The backline always looks messy with no Weitering steering the ship and its that balance between rebounding and defending that a few of our players need to get right with the exception of Saad who seems to get it right most games and is rarely caught out.
Id be playing Boyd round 1 but the KP spots with Young and Kemp are more of a concern for me and I would have liked to have seen Sam Durdin play seniors and see if he could be an option.
The Harry McKay second ruck idea is a interesting move and Im not sure if it benefits TDK....Harry was good around the ground and looked happy to have some freedom and agree he was our most valuable player but where does this leave the Pittonet/TDK setup? Can both play in the same team now and Im only so so on TDK as a forward and Im thinking I wouldnt have minded him playing down back like his brother at Geelong and giving us another option as Young has looked shaky in both games I have seen him.

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #91
No one on this Earth can convince me last night was a good showing in any way shape or form.
- A full preseason on a ground where every player would know ever blade of grass. The blokes wearing CFC jumpers last night looked like they had to google map the address of IKON Park before beginning the drive to it let alone know it well. The next person I hear say "we need to have it as our home venue for premiership points and make it our fortress" I will spew up.
- A full preseason supposedly practicing speed and ball movement. I was abhorrent to say the least.
- A full preseason with footballs in hand from day 1 and they come out fumbling and dropping marks, skills that Carolyn Springs FC would put to shame.
- A full preseason with a group who had supposedly matured and turned the corner in 2023. They looked confused, lacked cohesion, it was like the first session of preseason having read the new game plan book.
Last night was the complete opposite to what I expected. I'm no dill, I realise it was a practice match and the result counted for nothing other than a tune up. However one week out from meeting one of last years Grandfinalists on their dungheap, I expected a sharp, determined looking outfit displaying all the traits that justify our expectations that 2024 will be a year where consolidate the achievements of 2023. And don't feed me the BS about missing our two best players either. Weitering they have know about for several weeks, if they haven't developed a play with him missing, shame on them. Walsh? Supposedly we have a deep midfield, now we are a one man midfield because of a poor showing. I call BS on that. They were missing Oliver and Petracca barely got out of reverse. We are not a one or two man team, or are we?
Overdramatic? Ever the pessimist? We'll see I guess. To truly change you have to guess what, change. Every year we come out slow out of the blocks, last night was no different. Following 2023 this was supposed to be different. Wrote us off too early? Again, we'll see I guess. Maybe last years PF was our peak, maybe that's as good as it gets for this group. I just expected something better, I'm nervous. PS Praccy match or not, they showed they are top 4 material and ready to redeem themselves, we played like pretenders who drank bath water Dakaris all summer.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #92
I thought in the ruck BigH was average except when he was up against the other dud ruck who's name I can't remember, away from the ruck he was probably BoG.

Even so, I can't accept the risk that comes with rucking him, I get tall KPF's can ruck, but like Salmon, Rocca and others, you do it at the end of their career after they are bruised and busted. Not when they are at their potential KPF peak.

When we saw BigH run past Charlie and an assortment of Dees defenders to collect the ground level footy on the run and slot the easy goal, (was that the Boyd kick?) that is a tell, and it should have signalled the end of his ruck ambitions. Ruck BigH for too much or too often, or against the wrong opponent like Nankervis (aka The Butcher), and you'll never see that happen again.

The way the ruck rotations worked, Harry very rarely contested hitouts against Gawn but, when he did, he was certainly better than Pitto!

I'm not sure why you have this obsession with ruckmen getting hurt.  Key forwards, key defenders, midfielders, utilities, etc all get hurt and, unlike Jack Silvagni, Harry has the size and strength to look after himself; 106kg to Nankervis's 102kg (and Nankervis is more of a pussycat than a tiger).

Harry's main role is kicking goals and he has underperformed for a bloke of his size and ability; a bit like Joe Daniher really.  The latter's goalkicking has skyrocketed since he was given the job of second ruck to the Big O.  I suspect that getting Harry into the game by running him in the ruck will make him a more dangerous key forward.

Harry's ability to get up the ground to provide a marking target on the wing or in the corridor has become a feature of his game.  Playing as a ruckman last night gave him the opportunity to drag down some big marks deep in defence, something Pitto and De Koning couldn't manage.

Interestingly, Gawn had 30 hitouts while De Koning, Pitto and Harry managed 27 between them.  Harry took clean possession a couple of times too on his way to three clearances. As you know, they don't count as hitouts.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #93
No one on this Earth can convince me last night was a good showing in any way shape or form.
- A full preseason on a ground where every player would know ever blade of grass. The blokes wearing CFC jumpers last night looked like they had to google map the address of IKON Park before beginning the drive to it let alone know it well. The next person I hear say "we need to have it as our home venue for premiership points and make it our fortress" I will spew up.
- A full preseason supposedly practicing speed and ball movement. I was abhorrent to say the least.
- A full preseason with footballs in hand from day 1 and they come out fumbling and dropping marks, skills that Carolyn Springs FC would put to shame.
- A full preseason with a group who had supposedly matured and turned the corner in 2023. They looked confused, lacked cohesion, it was like the first session of preseason having read the new game plan book.
Last night was the complete opposite to what I expected. I'm no dill, I realise it was a practice match and the result counted for nothing other than a tune up. However one week out from meeting one of last years Grandfinalists on their dungheap, I expected a sharp, determined looking outfit displaying all the traits that justify our expectations that 2024 will be a year where consolidate the achievements of 2023. And don't feed me the BS about missing our two best players either. Weitering they have know about for several weeks, if they haven't developed a play with him missing, shame on them. Walsh? Supposedly we have a deep midfield, now we are a one man midfield because of a poor showing. I call BS on that. They were missing Oliver and Petracca barely got out of reverse. We are not a one or two man team, or are we?
Overdramatic? Ever the pessimist? We'll see I guess. To truly change you have to guess what, change. Every year we come out slow out of the blocks, last night was no different. Following 2023 this was supposed to be different. Wrote us off too early? Again, we'll see I guess. Maybe last years PF was our peak, maybe that's as good as it gets for this group. I just expected something better, I'm nervous. PS Praccy match or not, they showed they are top 4 material and ready to redeem themselves, we played like pretenders who drank bath water Dakaris all summer.

Agree - need to see more. Its not the loss but the way this group lost.

Harry in the ruck is a must as a relieving ruckman few minutes each qtr against opponents relieving ruck.

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #94
Boyd's attacking game was good vs Melbourne as Shawny suggested with some nice long entry passes but vs Brisbane Id like to see him revert more to being a lockdown player like he was in that prelim. The backline always looks messy with no Weitering steering the ship and its that balance between rebounding and defending that a few of our players need to get right with the exception of Saad who seems to get it right most games and is rarely caught out.
Id be playing Boyd round 1 but the KP spots with Young and Kemp are more of a concern for me and I would have liked to have seen Sam Durdin play seniors and see if he could be an option.
The Harry McKay second ruck idea is a interesting move and Im not sure if it benefits TDK....Harry was good around the ground and looked happy to have some freedom and agree he was our most valuable player but where does this leave the Pittonet/TDK setup? Can both play in the same team now and Im only so so on TDK as a forward and Im thinking I wouldnt have minded him playing down back like his brother at Geelong and giving us another option as Young has looked shaky in both games I have seen him.

As the clip Lods posted shows EB, Boydy was a lot more than a lock down player in the prelim ... and I think Vossy wants that run out of defence and good delivery as part of the defender's toolkit.

I thought that both Youngy and Kempy were much better last night - McGovern had a Barry Crocker!  Youngy was going for his marks and spoils but he and Kempy were both under the pump with the ease that Melbourne transitioned from defence and won the ball out of the centre.

I suspect that Vossy will be emphasising team defence in the lead to the Brisbane game.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #95
I'll be really surprised if the intensity and effort isn't chalk and cheese this week.
Players smiling and having a chat with opposition mid-game was indicative of the level of intensity.

Our mids didn't break a stride and just went through the motions...picking up plenty of the football but not doing a lot of damage.

Our tackling, especially the double teaming we were really good at last year, was weak.

Let's see what they bring next game.

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #96
Personally, I thought in the PF he was one of the few who stood up under the Lion's pressure.

To me that is a bigger tell than all the other games combined.

That was his best game for us and by some margin. But it is a one off at this stage.

Remember Nick Duigan being the finals hero against the tigers?
Next week against Sydney he was average.
He never played again.

So be careful about '1 good game'.

Go back and watch some of his efforts last year and there was a lot of under (a little bit of) pressure moments where he simply folded. There was a lot of similarities between him and LOB. The latter also had some positive moments, but they were the exception rather than the rule.

Best thing going for Boyd is that he is one of the only blokes on our list who can play on a small forward in a lockdown role. Other blokes like Saad, Docherty, Williams, even Newman are better off as attacking players rather than lock down players.

I'm happy for him to keep proving me wrong. I'm not changing my tune after 1 game and 1 pre-season game.

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #97
I suspect the times when Boyd has been 'overwhelmed' co-incided with times the total defence was being overwhelmed.

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #98
I suspect the times when Boyd has been 'overwhelmed' co-incided with times the total defence was being overwhelmed.

The instances that i'm talking about were more 1 on 1's out on the wing, or in a pack, not last line of defence type stuff.

Like loose ball that he is getting too first. Fumbles at the pressure coming at him. Or throws it on the boot too quickly (quicker than he needed too) and kicks it out on the full or picks out the opposition 20m in the clear. Shirking contact. Passive play.
Just not up to AFL standard pressure and pace.

If he has learned to cope with that at, now, age 25. Brilliant. But as a 23yo, he hadn't managed it yet, and most people don't get the chance to 'learn' that type of stuff at that age. Look at Lochie O'Brien. We gave up on him at the age Boyd was when he started with us.

Boyd is very much a late late bloomer. Has he bloomed enough? We'll see.

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #99
He's not a young lad but after only 16 games at AFL level you would think he's still getting a feel for the speed and pressure.

I can't recall any of the incidents you talk about but if they occurred it probably happened because he's still getting used to the intensity.

Problem is personal bias often plays into this.
When we perceive a problem we look for it.
Hopefully it doesn't diminish the good aspects of a player and the positives they bring.




 

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #100
https://www.theroar.com.au/afl/video/absolute-shocker-harry-mckay-outdoes-himself-as-set-shot-from-directly-in-front-goes-25-metres-off-target-1335272/

Farken how? Explain to me how? How many shots has he had from the position at the ground? How?
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #101
He's not a young lad but after only 16 games at AFL level you would think he's still getting a feel for the speed and pressure.

I can't recall any of the incidents you talk about but if they occurred it probably happened because he's still getting used to the intensity.

Problem is personal bias often plays into this.
When we perceive a problem we look for it.
Hopefully it doesn't diminish the good aspects of a player and the positives they bring.

When does perception turn into bias?

When we recruited him, I didnt understand  why, but then I saw his kicking on his highlight reel, and I thought OK...it's something worth exploring.

The i saw him play and that kicking was nowhere to be seen, in fact it was flat out terrible....but so was everything else he did. He looked like a deer in headlights. Completely overawed by the situation.....and it didn't improve.....at least for a for a couple of years.

He played 1 good game and credit to him, but plenty of nobodies have played 1 good game, or even 7 and still not had 'it'.

I've got nothing against the lad, I actually had a quick chat and got his autograph for my kids at auskick last year. I'm just not convinced of anything until he can do it for longer. As I said, LOB had shown more and more often at a younger age and was still deemed not up to it, difference is the position he is playing more so than how he is playing though.

Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #102
His first couple of games were howlers.  I didn't see any of what we are currently seeing in him at the time.

I even went on record and said I got it wrong after initially saying he wouldn't make it.

He will be an also ran though.  Plenty of also rans win flags.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson


Re: 2024 Practice Match Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #104
When does perception turn into bias?

Perception turns to a bias when the defciencies we perceive in a player affect our overall judgement.
We magnify the faults.
We diminish the positives.
When commenting on a player in game threads we obsess about one critical aspect of the player's play and give little thought to the good.
Harry McKay...arguably our best player in both the practice games is an example.
We speak in absolutes....

You say re Boyd....
("Then i saw him play and that kicking was nowhere to be seen, in fact it was flat out terrible....but so was everything else he did. He looked like a deer in headlights. Completely overawed by the situation.....and it didn't improve.....at least for a for a couple of years. ). He's only played 16 games over two years.

Truth is that while he wasn't a standout in many games he was serviceable and applied good pressure and a bit of agro. And his kicking on most occasions was accurate and penetrating.

His game against Brisbane in a prelim was his best.
A number of our more celebrated players didn't rise to the occasion on that night.
But he's been OK in a number of games.
He still hasn't played many games and the truth is it may fizzle out.
He may spend a lot of 2024 as a fringe player.
It may be that some of his detractors will continue to write him off, commenting on every clanger with an "I told you so."
And from those folks we won't hear a peep when he plays a good game.

But in some respects..."You're only as good as your last game, or current form."
Right now I'll be really surprised if he's not in the 22 come the Brisbane game.