Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on August 30, 2020, 07:59:24 pm

Title: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: crashlander on August 30, 2020, 07:59:24 pm
The game starts at 1910 on Thursday.
Not sure if we are on free-to-air TV or not.
After today's disappointment, the probability of us winning this one isn't looking high.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: capcom on August 30, 2020, 08:03:06 pm
We are FTA crash
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: spf on August 31, 2020, 02:28:07 am
Can't make the finals now so largely irrelevant. A bit like the pre-season comp now, try out some players and see who can stay for next year.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: laj on August 31, 2020, 05:01:21 am
Can't make the finals now so largely irrelevant. A bit like the pre-season comp now, try out some players and see who can stay for next year.

Sure can if we win Thursday with the Swans and Adelaide to follow. Winning though off a 4 day break will be a big ask though.

Back to one ruck this week. Casboult plays much better as a forward/ruck than he does as a forward alone. He taper in form has coincided with the playing of 2 rucks. If he gets a run in the ruck, getting his hands on the ball, he carries that confidence when he goes back forward.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 31, 2020, 08:57:32 am
Sure can if we win Thursday with the Swans and Adelaide to follow. Winning though off a 4 day break will be a big ask though.

Back to one ruck this week. Casboult plays much better as a forward/ruck than he does as a forward alone. He taper in form has coincided with the playing of 2 rucks. If he gets a run in the ruck, getting his hands on the ball, he carries that confidence when he goes back forward.
Pitto or TDK out if we go one ruck? Kennedy back in for Polson although the apparent "2 game min rule" may save Polson this week but if they are honest, he would be omitted. IF Gov is ready straight in? Simmo needs a rest, maybe Murph as well. Gibbons needs a run in the 2s IMO, output has been ordinary the last month (last week was ok). Agree Cripps needs a spell but it won't happen unless he is hurt. Cunningham? Cottrel? Owies? Lots of questions at the selection table this week, 4 game turn around. Knowing the MC it will be "No Change".
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: shawny on August 31, 2020, 09:10:34 am
Every chance we could win this as funny as that sounds. Pressure will be off us and everyone will write us off.

Kelly is the type that would hurt us with his smooth use of the ball and our chances increased drastically because hes out - I would bring in Kennedy, SPS and Cunningham for Polson, Murphy and Willo. 
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 31, 2020, 09:12:32 am
Every chance we could win this as funny as that sounds. Pressure will be off us and everyone will write us off.

Kelly is the type that would hurt us with his smooth use of the ball and our chances increased drastically because hes out - I would bring in Kennedy, SPS and Cunningham for Polson, Murphy and Willo. 
I dare say Greene will miss? Has that been looked at?
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: rocky on August 31, 2020, 09:17:39 am
I dare say Greene will miss? Has that been looked at?
Escaped with a fine.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 31, 2020, 09:20:18 am
Escaped with a fine.
Of course.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: rocky on August 31, 2020, 09:28:31 am
I think this is the week we need to "manage" both Simpson and Murphy out. Makes sense you would think. Cottrell has to come back and I guess they'll bring back SPS. Polson out, but I'd give Dow another week. Maybe Cripps gets a rest too? Kennedy in for him I suppose and maybe Owies to be the next try.... While Pittonet would be a descent contest against the big thug that is Mumford I'd be tempted to rest him and just use the TDK/Levi combination. TDK should be instructed to run the thug off his feet.  Exploit him. This game will be won or lost in the middle as most of them are.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 31, 2020, 09:33:34 am
I think this is the week we need to "manage" both Simpson and Murphy out. Makes sense you would think. Cottrell has to come back and I guess they'll bring back SPS. Polson out, but I'd give Dow another week. Maybe Cripps gets a rest too? Kennedy in for him I suppose and maybe Owies to be the next try.... While Pittonet would be a descent contest against the big thug that is Mumford I'd be tempted to rest him and just use the TDK/Levi combination. TDK should be instructed to run the thug off his feet.  Exploit him. This game will be won or lost in the middle as most of them are.
Like that
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Professer E on August 31, 2020, 09:45:49 am
Well,  are we still trying to make finals or planning for next year?

Pittonet has to play.   Mummy specialises in smashing us,  he dreams at night of hammering some wide open little bloke like Murphy.  Nup, give him a large body to worry about. Over that thug lording over us.

But agreed,  one of TDK or Casboult, not both.

Cottrells hard running and intensity is another I think adds to us,  and Kennedy has enough runs on the board this year to get a game, especially as I'm not convinced Cripps will play.   I'd be tempted to give Betts a week off "managed" (for Owies and/or Honey) and I'd give Simpson the week off as well if we had a bloke who could cover him.... O Brien?
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 31, 2020, 09:52:58 am
This week will test what we are really made of. How do we bounce back from a "finals like" loss?
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: flyboy77 on August 31, 2020, 10:50:52 am
Sure can if we win Thursday with the Swans and Adelaide to follow. Winning though off a 4 day break will be a big ask though.

Back to one ruck this week. Casboult plays much better as a forward/ruck than he does as a forward alone. He taper in form has coincided with the playing of 2 rucks. If he gets a run in the ruck, getting his hands on the ball, he carries that confidence when he goes back forward.

x100.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: laj on August 31, 2020, 11:03:39 am
Pitto or TDK out if we go one ruck? Kennedy back in for Polson although the apparent "2 game min rule" may save Polson this week but if they are honest, he would be omitted. IF Gov is ready straight in? Simmo needs a rest, maybe Murph as well. Gibbons needs a run in the 2s IMO, output has been ordinary the last month (last week was ok). Agree Cripps needs a spell but it won't happen unless he is hurt. Cunningham? Cottrel? Owies? Lots of questions at the selection table this week, 4 game turn around. Knowing the MC it will be "No Change".

Like to play TDK then, of course, Mummy is their ruckman.

Win Thursday and we are in it up to our ears again so we will be picking our best side, or our best "fresh" side. After all, Sydney and Adelaide are next. 4 day break won't help us though. If we had a 6 day break it'd be 50/50 and we'd be a huge chance. 4 days, tough.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on August 31, 2020, 11:10:08 am
Like to play TDK then, of course, Mummy is their ruckman.
I think Pittonet is a perfect match up for Mumford, De Koning could be broken in two first Mumford tackle.

I realise De Koning might hurt GWS around the ground, might, but you have to stop Mumford beating up on your mids. Outside of the hitting and tackling Mumford doesn't contribute much at all.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: WASurfer on August 31, 2020, 11:56:35 am
If Plowman gets the job on Greene then I'm joining Bet365 and putting money on Greene for 3 Brownlow Votes.....Stephenson made him look putrid yesterday and Greene is a class above Stephenson. He will tear us apart and not sure we even really have a match up for him....maybe Williamson gets a crack at him?
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 31, 2020, 12:44:26 pm
I think Pittonet is a perfect match up for Mumford, De Koning could be broken in two first Mumford tackle.

I realise De Koning might hurt GWS around the ground, might, but you have to stop Mumford beating up on your mids. Outside of the hitting and tackling Mumford doesn't contribute much at all.
I'd tag team him with TDK bringing us home in the last quarter when the Mumster is tired...Mummy as you say is less interested in football these days and more interested in damaging the opposition.
Need to damage deBoer and get him off Cripps...another lean day for the skipper coming up unless Teague and Barker can think their way through it.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on August 31, 2020, 12:44:48 pm
If Plowman gets the job on Greene then I'm joining Bet365 and putting money on Greene for 3 Brownlow Votes.....Stephenson made him look putrid yesterday and Greene is a class above Stephenson. He will tear us apart and not sure we even really have a match up for him....maybe Williamson gets a crack at him?
Have we heard the MRP results yet, Greene might not be playing it is not like he is an MRP favourite!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 31, 2020, 12:45:16 pm
Have we heard the MRP results yet, Greene might not be playing it is not like he is an MRP favourite!
Rocky said got away with a fine
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on August 31, 2020, 12:47:48 pm
I'd tag team him with TDK bringing us home in the last quarter when the Mumster is tired...Mummy as you say is less interested in football these days and more interested in damaging the opposition.
Need to damage deBoer and get him off Cripps...another lean day for the skipper coming up unless Teague and Barker can think their way through it.
All Cripps has to do is go hard at the football and run into a few small opposition mids, they'll become hesitant and life will be easier for the rest of our midfield without Cripps needing to do much more than that! If he had run collided with Adams or Elliott early on we might be talking about a different result today, because of his size Cripps doesn't even need to deliberately bump, he can orchestrate a straight out collision with his shoulder.

Perhaps we should engage Hodge as a coach for next season!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: laj on August 31, 2020, 12:57:16 pm
Yesterday was our biggest game since 2013 EF/SF'S. Thursday now is even bigger. Win and the Swans and Adelaide are to come. 4 day break is my biggest worry. Just hope we can come up both physically and mentally again after yesterday.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 31, 2020, 01:02:13 pm
All Cripps has to do is go hard at the football and run into a few small opposition mids, they'll become hesitant and life will be easier for the rest of our midfield without Cripps needing to do much more than that! If he had run collided with Adams or Elliott early on we might be talking about a different result today, because of his size Cripps doesn't even need to deliberately bump, he can orchestrate a straight out collision with his shoulder.

Perhaps we should engage Hodge as a coach for next season!
DeBoer has had the wood on him before and had a good game on Fyfe, I'd be prepared to play Cripps at FF from the goal square and clear out the forward line apart from Eddie.
Bring Kennedy back this game and play Walsh in the middle too, Cottrell on Whitfield and Liam Jones on Greene.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: enz on August 31, 2020, 01:09:02 pm
GWS are coming off 5 day break, flew back from Perth so I think that negates our 4 day turnaround, time to bring in O'Brien, Cunners, Cottrell players who can run.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: laj on August 31, 2020, 01:29:33 pm
DeBoer has had the wood on him before and had a good game on Fyfe, I'd be prepared to play Cripps at FF from the goal square and clear out the forward line apart from Eddie.
Bring Kennedy back this game and play Walsh in the middle too, Cottrell on Whitfield and Liam Jones on Greene.

Hopefully he can take all his kicks from 10m out from goal. He'd miss otherwise...lol.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 31, 2020, 02:01:47 pm
Hopefully he can take all his kicks from 10m out from goal. He'd miss otherwise...lol.

I did say goal square because I knew some smarty 😉 would mention his kicking....reckon if he kicked a few easy ones it might lift his confidence and the teams. Think if we go in with the traditional setup it will be the traditional result.
We are still a chance to play finals if we beat GWS and I'd be going down swinging rather than just rockup like we did vs Collingwood, they have been flaky and dont like it hard so I'd make it a grinding physical game.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Mantis on August 31, 2020, 03:06:17 pm
Elwood. Our boys don’t like the physical game either. Toss a coin to pick the result in this match.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 31, 2020, 03:29:17 pm
Elwood. Our boys don’t like the physical game either. Toss a coin to pick the result in this match.
Mants, I think we can can grind a game out and make it hard for them, they are very skilfull, like to be pretty with the ball but do get frustrated if its contest after contest and its not a free flowing game. They dont like being pressured, chased and its the teams that do that well for 4 quarters beat them. If we engage in pretty end to end footy we will be carved up like a Sunday roast.
When I say hard its less about bash and crash, intimidation etc  and more about continual pressure and getting numbers around the footy which means running hard, working for your teammate ie blocking, shepherding, providing the outlet when under pressure. Saying all that we also need the coach and MC to display a bit more nous than they did vs Collingwood and get matchups right, selections right and treat it like a final.
Hopefully GWS think we have given it away for the year and will just rock up and go through the motions....
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Mantis on August 31, 2020, 04:00:45 pm
I hear what you are saying. I just fear if an opponent gets a run on of 2 or 3 goals, we turn to jelly. Freeze like a deer in the headlights. Fail to support each other with the pressure needed to stop the bleeding. Lack of hard running, team play, blocking, shepherding. All these one percenters are where we fall over in a 4 quarter match. I hope we win this match. Just can’t see it happening. Not a 4 quarter side yet. Mentally not there in our development. If they play fancy footy early and get ahead on the scoreboard. We could be toast by the end of the game.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 31, 2020, 04:34:03 pm
I hear what you are saying. I just fear if an opponent gets a run on of 2 or 3 goals, we turn to jelly. Freeze like a deer in the headlights. Fail to support each other with the pressure needed to stop the bleeding. Lack of hard running, team play, blocking, shepherding. All these one percenters are where we fall over in a 4 quarter match. I hope we win this match. Just can’t see it happening. Not a 4 quarter side yet. Mentally not there in our development. If they play fancy footy early and get ahead on the scoreboard. We could be toast by the end of the game.
Agree..stopping run ons isnt one of our strong points and a quarter of fancy GWS footy with their talent is probably a winning one.
A lot of that is leadership and its up to Cripps, Docherty and Simpson etc to direct traffic as well as the coach to make moves to slow the game down and adjust to swings in momentum.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Thryleon on August 31, 2020, 04:37:04 pm
We are a battling team.  As such we battle away, when our application waivers, we are powerless because we have spent all our chips battling.  Its why we are in every game, and then fade away with a short period.

That wont continue forever, but most of our players are inexperienced, and not battle hardened which is why this continues. 
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 31, 2020, 04:50:41 pm
Agree..stopping run ons isnt one of our strong points and a quarter of fancy GWS footy with their talent is probably a winning one.
A lot of that is leadership and its up to Cripps, Docherty and Simpson etc to direct traffic as well as the coach to make moves to slow the game down and adjust to swings in momentum.

EB we dont look very good when we slow it down, that one of the problems. When we try and possess it, switch it or go for the angle kick, we regularly hit an oppo player or put our intended target under immense pressure and the turnover comes. And its not just the young kids fluffing it. We seem to be very good or at least better at the faster transition and ball movement with only the second last or last kick I50 being the problem.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 31, 2020, 05:15:57 pm
EB we dont look very good when we slow it down, that one of the problems. When we try and possess it, switch it or go for the angle kick, we regularly hit an oppo player or put our intended target under immense pressure and the turnover comes. And its not just the young kids fluffing it. We seem to be very good or at least better at the faster transition and ball movement with only the second last or last kick I50 being the problem.
GTC, We need another gear to change momentum, the good teams can hang onto the ball and make those passes and take the heat out of the game. You often see Houli, Martin etc make the big kick for Richmond that clears the danger zone and sets up the switch and the commentators will say what a great kick to break the trend of play. They will kick it back across goal several times if they have to and they make those passes to setup and be safe in bringing the ball out.
I agree we dont do it well but we are going to have to and find players who can if we are going to get better...
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 31, 2020, 05:46:01 pm
GTC, We need another gear to change momentum, the good teams can hang onto the ball and make those passes and take the heat out of the game. You often see Houli, Martin etc make the big kick for Richmond that clears the danger zone and sets up the switch and the commentators will say what a great kick to break the trend of play. They will kick it back across goal several times if they have to and they make those passes to setup and be safe in bringing the ball out.
I agree we dont do it well but we are going to have to and find players who can if we are going to get better...

No argument from me.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: cookie2 on August 31, 2020, 05:50:01 pm
GTC, We need another gear to change momentum, the good teams can hang onto the ball and make those passes and take the heat out of the game. You often see Houli, Martin etc make the big kick for Richmond that clears the danger zone and sets up the switch and the commentators will say what a great kick to break the trend of play. They will kick it back across goal several times if they have to and they make those passes to setup and be safe in bringing the ball out.
I agree we dont do it well but we are going to have to and find players who can if we are going to get better...

EB, I agree 100% and I think Williams is such a player from what I have seen of him.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 31, 2020, 06:17:56 pm
EB, I agree 100% and I think Williams is such a player from what I have seen of him.
Agree Cookie, He is quick but also a good user of the ball and importantly kicks well on the run.
I guess the price is the issue and where our cut off point is, Nth just over pay for everything and jack the starting price up.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on August 31, 2020, 07:34:53 pm
DeBoer has had the wood on him before and had a good game on Fyfe, I'd be prepared to play Cripps at FF from the goal square and clear out the forward line apart from Eddie.
I think Cripps is no certainty from the square either!

DeBoer needs some Hodge style attention, we've got Cripps, Setterfield and even if he plays McGovern as a big bodied mid. Cripps just needs to lead him to the football and head left or right before one of our others come front on. If Cripps runs past the footy and DeBoer follows it's bad luck for him!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Professer E on September 01, 2020, 07:44:24 am
The kid EB pointed out (Riccardi) when the club was entertaining Moore will need watching this week.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 01, 2020, 08:48:30 am
The kid EB pointed out (Riccardi) when the club was entertaining Moore will need watching this week.
Been good the past couple of weeks and worked well with Cameron, very hard working player who gives you effort.
Riccardi suffered from VFL stigma unlike Moore who had to be good because he came from Richmond.
Riccardi took 9 marks vs Freo and was the rising star weekly winner too.
We booted Kerr but had no backup forwards, given Harry, Charlie and money guv can't stay on the park, were then forced to look at rejects like Moore after the draft.

Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 01, 2020, 09:03:57 am
Been good the past couple of weeks and worked well with Cameron, very hard working player who gives you effort.
Riccardi suffered from VFL stigma unlike Moore who had to be good because he came from Richmond.
Riccardi took 9 marks vs Freo and was the rising star weekly winner too.
We booted Kerr but had no backup forwards, given Harry, Charlie and money guv can't stay on the park, were then forced to look at rejects like Moore after the draft.


Personally I would have kept Kerr but I suppose Liddle and co didnt like the fact he was the grandson of a long time benefactor who's family has a rich Carlton history..
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 01, 2020, 09:21:08 am
Personally I would have kept Kerr but I suppose Liddle and co didnt like the fact he was the grandson of a long time benefactor who's family has a rich Carlton history..
I didn't mind Kerr either and thought he had ability plus some aggression and felt we could have rookied him at worst..
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Thryleon on September 01, 2020, 11:54:49 am
Yep.  In the case of Kerr we did a "anything else must be something better".  Not anything else has kicked 3 goals vs Geelong in an otherwise poor team performance.

Kerr was probably turned off for a variety of reasons.  There is a variety of reasons why the move from Bolton to Teague occurred, and IMHO getting the lesser lights to buy in was one of them.

The more time goes on the more it looks as though some guys just didn't want to play for him as a senior coach and that the overall environment was lacking something from that perspective.  This is not necessarily a knock on Bolton either, the players are responsible for this too.  Where it starts to get hazy for me, is where we have blokes who came into our club from other environments, seemed to be a mix of honest triers, some that actually were talented and could play footy and for some reason never gained traction and a consistent run at it with us, when we were parked on the bottom of the ladder playing kids.

The approach seems very different this year.  Not overloaded with kids (sure some of them are the same ones that have done some growing up over the past 2-4 years to become what they are today) but some of the others are still becoming what i would call a 24/7 footballer and a reliable performer for 4 quarters at a time.

That is down to our environment, and not necessarily the senior coaches fault, but he is the bloke responsible for managing the environment.  We as fans are partly to blame for that.  We kept asking for the kids to get game time to make them get good faster not really knowing what is best for each player.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 01, 2020, 01:21:32 pm
I think we did wrong by Kerr rucking him, we tried to turn him into another Casboult, when Casboult was a ruck long before he was a forward.

Kerr had never been a ruck as a kid, and I note we've did similar with Jones, but now that Jones is proving a useful KPD we've killed the idea of him rucking. I don't know why that is the case, KPDs are a thousand times easier to find than an effective KPF, and yet we ruck Casboult and we've even tried rucking McKay leaving Jones in D50!

Jones was super-impressive rucking in the VFL before he came into the AFL as a defender, he played ruck in much the same way De Koning plays ruck at the moment.

To me it's just another example of our clubs weird logic.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: cookie2 on September 01, 2020, 02:18:58 pm
I was very disappointed that we didn't make more of Kerr. I think he showed some promise as a forward but somehow never got a run at it with us.
Anyway,  not really relevant to this topic.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 01, 2020, 03:37:46 pm
RE Kerr, there is always the possibility of something we the public don't know about, like a series of misdemeanours etc.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: flyboy77 on September 01, 2020, 04:21:23 pm
Kelly a definite out for GWS.

Cripps no certainty.

McGovern available and Weiters likely.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 01, 2020, 04:38:19 pm
Kelly a definite out for GWS.

Cripps no certainty.

McGovern available and Weiters likely.
A fully fit Cripps is going to have trouble getting a kick on DeBeor so it might be better if he misses and rests the body and mind.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: WASurfer on September 01, 2020, 04:39:01 pm
No mention of Cunningham or Kennedy on the injured list?
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Shakin77 on September 01, 2020, 04:40:11 pm
No mention of Cunningham or Kennedy on the injured list?

Both played in the scratch match
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: flyboy77 on September 01, 2020, 05:04:06 pm
A fully fit Cripps is going to have trouble getting a kick on DeBeor so it might be better if he misses and rests the body and mind.

Mental problems aside (his partner), I don't think Cripps has been fully fit at any point this year.

A shadow of previous years.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: flyboy77 on September 01, 2020, 05:05:01 pm
Both played in the scratch match

Diabolical decision not to pick Kennedy against the Pies.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Professer E on September 01, 2020, 06:42:51 pm
Kennedy and Cotrell in.

Cripps (inj) and Betts rested. 

MacGovern can sweat the lard off in the twos - most overrated player in the AFL

Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: flyboy77 on September 01, 2020, 07:14:15 pm
Kennedy and Cotrell in.

Cripps (inj) and Betts rested. 

MacGovern can sweat the lard off in the twos - most overrated player in the AFL



I'd be playing SPS, Cuners, Kennedy, McGovern.

Rest Simmo & Murphy, Polson out, Levi rested,
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Thryleon on September 01, 2020, 08:52:23 pm
Kennedy and Cotrell in.

Cripps (inj) and Betts rested. 

MacGovern can sweat the lard off in the twos - most overrated player in the AFL



Is that official?  If so there goes the idea we won't back in kids.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: crashlander on September 01, 2020, 09:11:46 pm
With Cottrell looking the goods, we now have an opportunity to make a surprise move and play SPS is an attacking role. Cottrell can do the defensive role, and looks to have some idea as a run-with player.

Polson I am not sure about. However, he has been doing well with the 2's, he does have some pace and his disposal is considerably improved (looks that way from the highlights of the 2's).

One thing that I have noted about SPS is that he has really improved his marking. In his first season he made an absolute mess of a number of high bombs. He just could read them. Maybe he didn't want to put his body in ...
Since then his contested marking has been a feature of his play. He rarely gets beaten in the air any more.
His defensive work has been pretty decent this year, but he hasn't shown any run from defence. Granted that Simmo and Doc tend to hog that role, but I could easily see SPS going for a dash if he had the confidence to do so. He doesn't seem to.

I would be considering Willo for a rest. he has been quite up and down of late. I would also consider giving him a different job, further up the ground. We don't get to see enough of his left foot.

We probably won't do either. We don't appear to experiment positionally with our players very often.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Professer E on September 01, 2020, 09:57:56 pm
Apologies,  that isn't official,  it's what I'd be doing if I was MC... But I ain't.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 02, 2020, 08:04:48 am
Apologies,  that isn't official,  it's what I'd be doing if I was MC... But I ain't.
I'd really like to see Cottrell on Whitfield, Lachie's strength is being brave at the contest and his extreme aerobic capacity, he gets his opponent in those last few metres every time. Cottrell is supposed to be elite in this regard, and we've seen he is brave and hard at the contests, if he's got a future it's going to be stifling guys like Whitfield.

It's an opportunity that reminds me of Ed's game on Ablett Jnr, it can make the kids career and give him a whole new level of confidence!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 02, 2020, 08:55:59 am
I'd really like to see Cottrell on Whitfield, Lachie's strength is being brave at the contest and his extreme aerobic capacity, he gets his opponent in those last few metres every time. Cottrell is supposed to be elite in this regard, and we've seen he is brave and hard at the contests, if he's got a future it's going to be stifling guys like Whitfield.

It's an opportunity that reminds me of Ed's game on Ablett Jnr, it can make the kids career and give him a whole new level of confidence!
Whitfield doesn't like it too rough and tough and Cottrell would be an excellent match up imo.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Thryleon on September 02, 2020, 01:30:30 pm
Its really hard to get a read on this season.  I think we are taking steps to spread the load as much as possible which is providing an added benefit to everyones game.  Its not one player dashing up field.  Its not one intercept marker.  Its not one leading all the way to half back.  Its not one adding forward pressure.  Its no longer Cripps or bust at the coal face.

This might be to do with the shortened season, advise from Russell, or just an overall coaching approach from Teague to get more players doing more work, and less work on the usual suspects which might also account for Cripps down year.  No benefit from running him into the ground (he does do this by choice, and ive noticed that he seems to be a decoy except when the next clearance needs to be won).
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 02, 2020, 01:31:05 pm
Whitfield doesn't like it too rough and tough and Cottrell would be an excellent match up imo.
I don't agree but it depends on what you mean by "rough and tough".

I've never seen Whitfield shirk a contest and he regularly takes marks running with the flight like Walsh's a few weeks ago.

If you mean Whitfield isn't a push and shove thug like Greene and that he'll try to avoid that stuff, then true!

PS; If the reason for his omission was to give Cottrell as week off to freshen up before tackling Whitfield, then we are greatly improving our player management.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 02, 2020, 01:44:16 pm
I don't agree but it depends on what you mean by "rough and tough".

I've never seen Whitfield shirk a contest and he regularly takes marks running with the flight like Walsh's a few weeks ago.

If you mean Whitfield isn't a push and shove thug like Greene and that he'll try to avoid that stuff, then true!
I have seen him intimidated and lose interest in contesting, you dont have to pull out you just dont go because you know whats coming. GWS across the board have a few like that, even Greene in a final had the Pies Maynard for company and didnt want the body contact and was unsighted but the following year made up for it playing a ripper game vs the Pies and thats why I rate him highly. GWS are highly skilled across the team so playing them on their merits usually doesnt work so the more physical teams soften them up by dumping them hard in tackles etc and paying special attention to their playmakers.
Thats why they have to keep playing a busted up crap truck like Mummy to give them some presence and why Greene is so important to them.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 02, 2020, 01:47:13 pm
I have seen him intimidated and lose interest in contesting, ................
The only time I've seen Whitfield hesitant was when we later found out he'd played on with a serious injury, and he ended up in hospital just to prove the point! He's as brave if not even braver than Simmo!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Blue Moon on September 02, 2020, 02:03:02 pm
This game will depend on which GWS turns up. They are flat track bullies and really put the Dockers to the sword. The question is whether they are self satisfied by that performance or whether they will be galvanized by the performance and make another charge like last season. Their weakness's are their rucks, their tendency to stop playing as a team, they play a bit like an all star team, and their back line is a bit slow, except for Williams. If Cripps is not playing, I would like to see Kennedy, Setterfield and Walsh in the middle, with Curnow  as support. I wouldn't mind Dow in there as well to give a bit of pace around the contest. I wouldn't mind Fisher up there but he has been our best forward as late. Our forward line needs to function better and exploit their lack of pace. There are too many games where we are only kicking one or no goals in a quarter. We must find a way to hit the scoreboard and we need to be scoring at least twelve goals. 
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 02, 2020, 02:19:09 pm
The only time I've seen Whitfield hesitant was when we latter found out he'd played on with a serious injury, and he ended up in hospital just to prove the point! He's as brave if not even braver than Simmo!
A very average Hawthorn beat GWS twice in 2019...not because the Hawks have more talent, far from it but they know how to physically pressure GWS and nobody does that stuff better than Clarko.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: WASurfer on September 02, 2020, 02:58:43 pm
McGovern might be a handy in as a 3rd tall defender this week? Either that or he comes in and plays forward and Casboult plays back for periods....he showed he could do it last year when Jones went down.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 02, 2020, 03:31:34 pm
A very average Hawthorn beat GWS twice in 2019...not because the Hawks have more talent, far from it but they know how to physically pressure GWS and nobody does that stuff better than Clarko.
Firstly, I suspect the Dawks are average by choice, they look to be tanking.

Secondly, to intimidate you need to have a few things in place. Players who are intimidating helps, players who are not fearful of someone like Mumford trying to knock them out, and team-mates or at least the feeling that the majority of team-mates have your back. I'd say we've got almost zero from three!

In any case, we are talking about old-fashioned football tactics, they are now in my opinion a modern football dead end, and perhaps a sure way of turning players away from your club. Modern players are more like Cripps, and likely to help up an opponent and perform a post-game care visit.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 02, 2020, 05:06:47 pm
Firstly, I suspect the Dawks are average by choice, they look to be tanking.

Secondly, to intimidate you need to have a few things in place. Players who are intimidating helps, players who are not fearful of someone like Mumford trying to knock them out, and team-mates or at least the feeling that the majority of team-mates have your back. I'd say we've got almost zero from three!

In any case, we are talking about old-fashioned football tactics, they are now in my opinion a modern football dead end, and perhaps a sure way of turning players away from your club. Modern players are more like Cripps, and likely to help up an opponent and perform a post-game care visit.
I think the Hawks are average because they continually topped up after refusing to rebuild or even have a measured reset because Clarko's ego took over and didnt want to manage a bottom team but thats another story.
I dont think its any secret that if you want to beat GWS you take a physical approach and not try and play them at their own highly skilled game hence they cant cut the umbilical cord with Mumford who makes them walk taller..
There is a balance with being the good guy and winning flags, Cripps running through Mayne was a nasty incident but IMO good for Cripps to be seen as taking no prisoners and we need more of that IMO given we have a lot of very nice kids who can look like the high school drama production class at times. Hardwick and Clarkson both talk about liking their teams to play on the edge and thats what you need to win GF's IMO, we need to follow that example and lose the Von Trapp nice boys image. GWS should have won two flags by now IMHO and there is a reason for that and its not talent....
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 02, 2020, 05:12:21 pm
I'll never forget the day Sheedy went ape crap at David Hille, Hille had stopped to check his opponent was OK when he thought heard the opponents bone break! Sheedy seeing this was furious at the break, and barrelled Hille who ignored him making Sheedy even more furious.

Sheedy wanted his players to belt opponents while they are down, something Sheedy never did face to face but only in the ankle or ear from behind!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 02, 2020, 05:16:29 pm
I think the Hawks are average because they continually topped up after refusing to rebuild or even have a measured reset because Clarko's ego took over and didnt want to manage a bottom team but thats another story.
I dont think its any secret that if you want to beat GWS you take a physical approach and not try and play them at their own highly skilled game hence they cant cut the umbilical cord with Mumford who makes them walk taller..
There is a balance with being the good guy and winning flags, Cripps running through Mayne was a nasty incident but IMO good for Cripps to be seen as taking no prisoners and we need more of that IMO given we have a lot of very nice kids who can look like the high school drama production class at times. Hardwick and Clarkson both talk about liking their teams to play on the edge and thats what you need to win GF's IMO, we need to follow that example and lose the Von Trapp nice boys image. GWS should have won two flags by now IMHO and there is a reason for that and its not talent....
I thought Crippa was going to go back and give him a cuddle when he saw him not getting up. Apparently he contacted Mayne that night to check that he was ok, class act. Kents of days gone by would never have done that.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 02, 2020, 05:36:40 pm
I thought Crippa was going to go back and give him a cuddle when he saw him not getting up. Apparently he contacted Mayne that night to check that he was ok, class act. Kents of days gone by would never have done that.
Agree...and nothing wrong after the game checking on Mayne who is a very popular player at Collingwood. The latter who is a different cat to most footballers especially Collingwood ones being a vegan, very gentle earthy soul who cares about animals , the environment, and makes baby clothes out of natural materials and who would have done the same for Cripps I'm sure.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: capcom on September 02, 2020, 06:08:00 pm
Sheedy never did face to face but only in the ankle or ear from behind!

Still like to grab the lace from his #10 guernsey and wrap it around his throat.  Coward
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 02, 2020, 06:20:56 pm
Still like to grab the lace from his #10 guernsey and wrap it around his throat.  Coward
Balme, Sheedy, Clarko..you never forget the scumbags...funny how they all have prospered through the game....and the nice guys come last.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 02, 2020, 06:25:51 pm
Carlton..Plowman(inj), Gibbo(inj) and TDK dropped.
Cottrell, McGovern and SPS in...

GWS..Finlayson in for Kelly(inj)

Mummy playing his 200th so he probably has a licence to mutilate..


Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 02, 2020, 06:27:14 pm
Carlton..Plowman(inj), Gibbo(inj) and TDK dropped.
Cottrell, MCgovern and SPS in...

GWS..Finlayson in for Kelly(inj)

Like the ins but dont like TDK out.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: WASurfer on September 02, 2020, 06:27:25 pm
If they've got Cameron, Himmelberg and Finlayson up forward, one of Levi or McGovern will have to play back....which leaves us pretty light on for marking power up forward.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 02, 2020, 06:28:52 pm
If they've got Cameron, Himmelberg and Finlayson up forward, one of Levi or McGovern will have to play back....which leaves us pretty light on for marking power up forward.
Prefer Levi back, proved it last year. Gov not a defenders a-hole.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 02, 2020, 06:32:09 pm
If they've got Cameron, Himmelberg and Finlayson up forward, one of Levi or McGovern will have to play back....which leaves us pretty light on for marking power up forward.
Be more worried who is playing on Greene........probably have to accept if they get it down there often enough we are going to lose so need to
control the midfield which wont be easy.
I think Casboult will play forward and take a turn vs Mummy and Finlayson who rucks for GWS as their second stringer...the Gov might get Himmelberg who is a handy player but yet to have a real breakout game.
GWS also have Riccardi who is playing well and will need a tall opponent, dont know why Kennedy, Cuningham are not playing and we need TDK in the team IMO.
Means Williamson will probably get a much taller player and Docherty would have to take Greene.
I think we will struggle with the team selected.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Lods on September 02, 2020, 06:54:11 pm
Casboult needs a big game.
He can probably consider himself a little lucky
I agree with iaj... he seems to go better when he gets a turn in the ruck so we'll see.


Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 02, 2020, 06:59:27 pm
Like that Paddy Dow gets a another chance to show his wares, need to keep playing him. Polson obviously did his job last week.
Saw a training video on social media, Cripps had no strapping anywhere, Jack S was running laps.
Big game boys and girls.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: kruddler on September 02, 2020, 07:07:24 pm
Casboult and Pittonet to double team the big mummy. Could be a good move.

I said we were too tall and were better off dropping a ruck (or key forward).....not quite sure i would've chosen TDK, but anybody out would probably be equally hard done by.

This is our last chance of making a run at finals. We need to win this.....extra percentage would be handy if possible.

Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: flyboy77 on September 02, 2020, 07:13:05 pm
Be more worried who is playing on Greene........probably have to accept if they get it down there often enough we are going to lose so need to
control the midfield which wont be easy.
I think Casboult will play forward and take a turn vs Mummy and Finlayson who rucks for GWS as their second stringer...the Gov might get Himmelberg who is a handy player but yet to have a real breakout game.
GWS also have Riccardi who is playing well and will need a tall opponent, dont know why Kennedy, Cuningham are not playing and we need TDK in the team IMO.
Means Williamson will probably get a much taller player and Docherty would have to take Greene.
I think we will struggle with the team selected.


Maybe, but if we win the centre clearances and the lion's share of stoppages....

The midfield contest decides what, 90% of outcomes? (or #22 umpire at times)

I would have played Kennedy and Cuners.

Polson might have a turn on Greene!

Mummy won't be able to man handle Pitto, and the Frenchman is just as capable around the ground....
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: flyboy77 on September 02, 2020, 07:17:04 pm
GWS   1.50
Blues 2.60

No expectation, we'll win.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: kruddler on September 02, 2020, 07:19:00 pm
Crap.....i just realised Polson is getting another game.

Last chance buddy, make it count.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Baggers on September 02, 2020, 07:21:23 pm
Casboult and Pittonet to double team the big mummy. Could be a good move.

I said we were too tall and were better off dropping a ruck (or key forward).....not quite sure i would've chosen TDK, but anybody out would probably be equally hard done by.

This is our last chance of making a run at finals. We need to win this.....extra percentage would be handy if possible.



Agree... I think TDK can consider himself unlucky and Brackets can consider himself lucky that he comes straight in to replace a kid with promise - you'd better deliver McGovern.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Baggers on September 02, 2020, 07:22:27 pm
GWS   1.50
Blues 2.60

No expectation, we'll win.

Sadly true, many would say that that's how we roll.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Baggers on September 02, 2020, 07:39:54 pm
Important emergencies. Good backups.
Emergencies: Matthew Kennedy, David Cuningham, Harrison Macreadie, Tom De Koning.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Professer E on September 02, 2020, 08:04:14 pm
Will be interesting to see Willo play as the third tall defender.  
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 02, 2020, 09:32:41 pm

Maybe, but if we win the centre clearances and the lion's share of stoppages....

The midfield contest decides what, 90% of outcomes? (or #22 umpire at times)

I would have played Kennedy and Cuners.

Polson might have a turn on Greene!

Mummy won't be able to man handle Pitto, and the Frenchman is just as capable around the ground....
If Polson plays on Greene then we have given it away and are tanking...😉
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: shawny on September 02, 2020, 10:03:09 pm
Crap.....i just realised Polson is getting another game.

Last chance buddy, make it count.

Should have had his last chance 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: shawny on September 02, 2020, 10:04:38 pm
If Polson plays on Greene then we have given it away and are tanking...😉

Beat me to it EB

Our coaching team will lose all credibility it this happens. Surely not.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 02, 2020, 10:31:14 pm
If Polson plays on Greene then we have given it away and are tanking...😉
What if Polson plays on him and keeps him quiet?
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Professer E on September 02, 2020, 10:36:42 pm
Then he will be lauded accordingly.

It's like MacGovern.   Kick a bag, or just give 100% for the whole game,  that's what we want.

As supporters we seriously want ALL players on the list to achieve their best,  but after 20 years our patience and tolerance of anything less than stellar performances is pretty thin.   We're a very critical bunch.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: bratblue on September 03, 2020, 10:32:20 am
''As supporters we seriously want ALL players on the list to achieve their best,  but after 20 years our patience and tolerance of anything less than stellar performances is pretty thin.   We're a very critical bunch."

Apart from spanner. :D  :D

Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 03, 2020, 10:38:05 am
Then he will be lauded accordingly.

It's like MacGovern.   Kick a bag, or just give 100% for the whole game,  that's what we want.

As supporters we seriously want ALL players on the list to achieve their best,  but after 20 years our patience and tolerance of anything less than stellar performances is pretty thin.   We're a very critical bunch.
I reckon the next 4 games will go a long way to either arresting our fears and instilling some form of confidence or validating them and continue the patience testing.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: enz on September 03, 2020, 11:19:57 am
Polson on Daniels, SPS on Greene
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Blue Moon on September 03, 2020, 11:57:22 am
GWS.  have gone very tall, Casboult may need to spend some time down back.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 03, 2020, 12:05:45 pm
GWS.  have gone very tall, Casboult may need to spend some time down back.
When you watch our earlier games, and you see what tall opponents get away with standing Weitering you can understand why, it would have been prudent to make some public comments before this game about the way Weitering being mistreated by opponents and umpiring, but it's probably too late today for this game!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: laj on September 03, 2020, 12:29:34 pm
Agree... I think TDK can consider himself unlucky and Brackets can consider himself lucky that he comes straight in to replace a kid with promise - you'd better deliver McGovern.

I think, with such a short time between games, that Pittonett was always playing tonight and TDK against the Swans Tuesday.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Lods on September 03, 2020, 12:49:26 pm
I think, with such a short time between games, that Pittonett was always playing tonight and TDK against the Swans Tuesday.

Makes sense.
Give the 'workers' a good break between games.
Casboult can pick up the ruck slack.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 03, 2020, 01:03:52 pm
McGovern can 2nd ruck as well, he's done it before at the Crows and very effectively.

McGovern has a great vertical leap and crazy long arms that make him play far taller than most fans given him credit for!

I'd much rather Pittonet, Casboult and McGovern share ruck duties than ruck McKay who is almost useless in the ruck and likely to get snapped in two!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: WASurfer on September 03, 2020, 01:13:23 pm
Agreed LP....McKay gets pushed aside too easily in the ruck contests. If he's going to be the big key forward then that's where he needs to be....and work on his goal kicking too!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 03, 2020, 01:41:12 pm
Agreed LP....McKay gets pushed aside too easily in the ruck contests. If he's going to be the big key forward then that's where he needs to be....and work on his goal kicking too!
I would just prefer H learns to nail his kicking for goal for now, worry about other strings to his bow later. One job.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 03, 2020, 02:02:38 pm
McGovern can 2nd ruck as well, he's done it before at the Crows and very effectively.

McGovern has a great vertical leap and crazy long arms that make him play far taller than most fans given him credit for!

I'd much rather Pittonet, Casboult and McGovern share ruck duties than ruck McKay who is almost useless in the ruck and likely to get snapped in two!
McGovern might need those long arms if he plays down back tonight, he would will be undersized vs all the GWS tall forwards.
Agree on Harry in the ruck...less idea than Callum Moore which isnt saying much.
Mummy in his 200th will be out to mutilate a few bodies, hope Harry stays well away from him and sticks to nailing us some goals.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 03, 2020, 02:24:38 pm
McGovern might need those long arms if he plays down back tonight, he would will be undersized vs all the GWS tall forwards.
Like I said, crazy long arms and plays taller than he is credited for, too many write him off as being undersized for a KPP because he is only about 192cm.

Josh Kennedy is only 194cm, Jack Darling 191cm and McGovern's stats are virtually equal to Darling for this season, yet Darling gets pumped up and McGovern gets slighted.

FMD, if we put McGovern up for trade Wet Toast will be wetting themselves to get hold of him as a replacement for Kennedy who is now going on 34!

I feel there is a lot of unjustified anti-McGovern sentiment that is more resentment about his money deal, but that is caused by our club not McGovern's fault. Have a look at Martin by comparison (https://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2425&SeasonID=2020#ind), on as much if not more, and has been average now for quite a few games, but has escaped scrutiny because of a reasonable run of startup games. McGovern hasn't played consistently (https://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2606&SeasonID=2020#ind), which has made him a target, but he has probably had as many good minutes as Martin.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: WASurfer on September 03, 2020, 02:48:34 pm
LP....I think we'd want to be absolutely certain Charlie Curnow can get back before looking at a McGovern trade. Different players I know but lose them both and we're down to Harry and Levi and not much else in terms of a key forward unless TDK is groomed to play as a forward and second string ruckman...his athleticism would be wasted purely as a forward I think.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 03, 2020, 02:59:52 pm
@WASurfer

I agree, but I can see Charlie, De Koning, McGovern and even SoJ rotating through the midfield and resting forward besides McKay who stays as the permanent KPF. Casboult is closer to the end than the beginning, so we do soon need to look forward.

What happens with Kemp will be very interesting, at junior level this guy had the size, F50 smarts and is a serious midfield option and ball user.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Tragic on September 03, 2020, 03:17:23 pm
Agree... I think TDK can consider himself unlucky and Brackets can consider himself lucky that he comes straight in to replace a kid with promise - you'd better deliver McGovern.

It was either TDK or Cas out.  Pitto to be number one ruck, and one of the other to be backup ruck and fwd.  Cas doesn't do much as pure fwd, and TDK not yet better than Cas.  TDK is almost there - almost taking important marks, almost getting free's for arm chops (that was a disgraceful miss by the umps at the end of Q1 or 2 v pies).  As a pure forward I have Gov ahead of TDK & Cas.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 03, 2020, 03:36:39 pm
Like I said, crazy long arms and plays taller than he is credited for, too many write him off as being undersized for a KPP because he is only about 192cm.

Josh Kennedy is only 194cm, Jack Darling 191cm and McGovern's stats are virtually equal to Darling for this season, yet Darling gets pumped up and McGovern gets slighted.

FMD, if we put McGovern up for trade Wet Toast will be wetting themselves to get hold of him as a replacement for Kennedy who is now going on 34!

I feel there is a lot of unjustified anti-McGovern sentiment that is more resentment about his money deal, but that is caused by our club not McGovern's fault. Have a look at Martin by comparison (https://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2425&SeasonID=2020#ind), on as much if not more, and has been average now for quite a few games, but has escaped scrutiny because of a reasonable run of startup games. McGovern hasn't played consistently (https://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2606&SeasonID=2020#ind), which has made him a target, but he has probably had as many good minutes as Martin.
LP...lets get real McGovern isnt in the same parish as Darling as a footballer IMHO who has been AA, leading goalkicker for WC x3 and averages 2 goals a game.....he wouldnt be any better than lesser lights like Membrey or Mihocek, and has given us doughnuts for two years now. The same player has averaged just under 14 games for the last three seasons...JD has played over 20 games in his last three seasons...so McGovern essentially misses a 3rd of the season unlike the more robust Darling who can stay on the park. Darling also plays the No2 KP forward behind Kennedy unlike McGovern who has always played the No 3  spot behind Walker, Jenkins,  or Curnow/Casboult, Harry.....so our man gets the weaker opponent more often than Darling who cops a genuine KP Defender each week.
I'd happily hand McGovern back to the Crows,get my draft picks back plus Shane McAdam, moneyball Jake Riccardi from last years draft and spend McGoverns money on one of Williams, Papley, Saad.
IMO Martin has showed a lot more than McGovern and is capable of being A grade, dont deny he has been poor of late but so has Cripps, Eddie and a few others and I'm prepared to give Martin another 12 months to sort out his consistency issues before I get on his case which I will if he doesnt deliver given he is a on good money too..

Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: pew2 on September 03, 2020, 03:44:36 pm
stop whitfield /williams run from our fwd line is a priority
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 03, 2020, 04:00:01 pm
stop whitfield /williams run from our fwd line is a priority
Yep Whitfield played off half back last week and started many attacks with his run and carry and needs a minder.
I would have played Cuningham on him if he played half back and Cottrell if he played wing and was a bit surprised the former was left out of the lineup given Collingwood showed us up for pace.
Could be a long night of chasing  with Whitfield and Williams carrying the ball through the middle of the ground...
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: LP on September 03, 2020, 04:33:59 pm
LP...lets get real McGovern isnt in the same parish as Darling as a footballer IMHO who has been AA, leading goalkicker for WC x3 and averages 2 goals a game.....
I was referring to the beat up that is 2020 so far, and the 2020 numbers do not back the recently published opinions up!
Jack Darling 2020 - https://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2078&SeasonID=2020#ind

So I don't really know for sure but it seems like it's more than enough justification for me to question why the hate.

I think some of the creeps in the social and media pages have got onto McGovern as a whipping boy with Carlton fans because many just didn't want him in the first place, and so the creeps are feeding the ongoing rage! If our club follows the fan rage the same creeps will all line up to sign McGovern up for their own club, with Carlton paying a portion of the wage for their generous offer to offload the spud of course! ;)

2020 per game McGovern averages more goals a game than Martin, and a large chunk of Martin's came in Rnd 1!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: flyboy77 on September 03, 2020, 04:56:43 pm
It was either TDK or Cas out.  Pitto to be number one ruck, and one of the other to be backup ruck and fwd.  Cas doesn't do much as pure fwd, and TDK not yet better than Cas.  TDK is almost there - almost taking important marks, almost getting free's for arm chops (that was a disgraceful miss by the umps at the end of Q1 or 2 v pies).  As a pure forward I have Gov ahead of TDK & Cas.

I still reckon the Guv will come good for us. But admit what he's given thus far leaves a lot to be desired taking into account time in the fat farm.

50 goal a year forward if he can stay on the park.

Go Blues.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: WASurfer on September 03, 2020, 05:28:20 pm
Sydney currently leading Melbourne.....if Swans get up, then it makes the GWS game another very important one. We could join Melbourne on 28 points, and leapfrog GWS, Essendon and the Bulldogs and be out of the 8 on %.....nothing like a bit of pressure.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: flyboy77 on September 03, 2020, 05:43:04 pm
Sydney currently leading Melbourne.....if Swans get up, then it makes the GWS game another very important one. We could join Melbourne on 28 points, and leapfrog GWS, Essendon and the Bulldogs and be out of the 8 on %.....nothing like a bit of pressure.

I think we'll win because no one expects us to.....
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 03, 2020, 06:21:58 pm
I was referring to the beat up that is 2020 so far, and the 2020 numbers do not back the recently published opinions up!
Jack Darling 2020 - https://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2078&SeasonID=2020#ind

So I don't really know for sure but it seems like it's more than enough justification for me to question why the hate.

I think some of the creeps in the social and media pages have got onto McGovern as a whipping boy with Carlton fans because many just didn't want him in the first place, and so the creeps are feeding the ongoing rage! If our club follows the fan rage the same creeps will all line up to sign McGovern up for their own club, with Carlton paying a portion of the wage for their generous offer to offload the spud of course! ;)

2020 per game McGovern averages more goals a game than Martin, and a large chunk of Martin's came in Rnd 1!
Martin plays midfield too so he isnt permanently stationed down forward so I would expect McGovern to kick more goals...the latter has a problem with our delivery which probably doesnt suit his style. We tend to bomb the ball long to a pack which suits Casboult and Harry but McGovern prefers the ball on the lead or a one on one where he has the sit type arrangement.
He played at the Crows when they were very much a factory up forward with Walker, Jenkins, Eddie and Lynch all kicking bags and helping each other out and with us there is less cohesion and you are on your own a bit more trying to get a kick.
Our midfield doesnt have the Pendlebury, Whitfield, Shuey, Kelly, Martin etc Rolls Royce delivery service and McGovern will need to be Fev like and exert himself a bit more to get a kick....his one plus is being a good kick/converter.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: shawny on September 03, 2020, 06:27:46 pm
I think we'll win because no one expects us to.....

Like the easy 40 plus point win you predicated against the pies. Love your positively but sometimes you need to take the blue glasses off mate.

Polson, Cottrell and Dow will be lucky to get 20 touches between them.  No confidence when we select these sorts of players who have nil impact.

Hard enough to win against the better teams when we have our best players on the park let alone with the squad we have this week.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: WASurfer on September 03, 2020, 06:33:44 pm
Shawny....reckon this'll be one of THOSE games where 5-10 minutes into the first quarter you just know which of our teams has shown up. If it's terrible disposal skills, turnovers and the opposition just waltzing up the middle then it's over to the News!
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 03, 2020, 06:47:08 pm
Shawny....reckon this'll be one of THOSE games where 5-10 minutes into the first quarter you just know which of our teams has shown up. If it's terrible disposal skills, turnovers and the opposition just waltzing up the middle then it's over to the News!
Yep, I reckon you'll see in 5-10 min if it good or bad Carlton. Having said that, we looked alright for the first half last week only to go back to the hotel for the second half.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: capcom on September 03, 2020, 06:52:11 pm
Not gonna predict it, but it'll be a slog
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: WASurfer on September 03, 2020, 06:52:59 pm
Imagine if we could harness that first 15 or so minutes from that game against the Hawks over here in the hub....not sure I've seen us play like that in a few years. But same thing, put the cue in the rack after that burst and were steamrolled.
Title: Re: Pre game Discussion Round 15 Carlton vs GWS at Metricon.
Post by: Baggers on September 03, 2020, 07:06:22 pm
Well, the Fluffy Ducks have helped us out. Win tonight, and we're 9th and in with a show - terrific incentive. What are we made of? Which BlueBaggers will turn up tonight? Which quarter will we go to sleep?