Saturday 5th August
2.10 PM
MCG
Sooooooooooo.
Woosh has released the shackles, and in between flaky moments, they play some good footy. Some decent players in good form - Joe D, Hurley, Hooker, Orazio, Tipungwuti, Zach.
And us, well we're us.
Bombers by 5 goals.
Cant see us even getting close but who knows. Just the sort of game we need to at least get the so called leaders to fire up.
Kruezer simply has to right to play for us to have any chance.
I would leave out White and Lamb and bring in Bryne (if fit) and would like to see Pickett get another chance. We need some foot speed to have any chance against them.
Maybe the weather is kind to us and it buckets down like last time. ;D
I don't rate this mob that highly, IMO we are always a chance with them no matter the ladder position.
Go Blues
Playing this many kids in a side means you will have very up and down moments.
Obviously against the cats it was very much a down moment.
This could be our up moment.....but all logic points to otherwise.
No ruck.
Half a midfield
3rd rate forwardline
We'll need someone playing out of their skins to even give us a sniff.
Curnowfides will need to kick 6!
These boys need to crack in all game like they have been doing not sure what happened against geelong but must not repeat that crap
maybe ess thinking about ADL game the following week and we SURPRISE them with a new game plan
jones v danna at all times in the fwd line simple
Be interesting to see if SpecialK is ruled out later today.
and would like to see Pickett get another chance. We need some foot speed to have any chance against them.
no thanks
no thanks
Even though he produced some of the highlights of the game, Pickett had only 9 possessions for the day. That does not suggest 'promotion' to me. Even though Sumner has managed it before.
I don't think Sumner will get promoted either.
If Kreuzer doesn't come up, I'd be using Casboult and Jones to ruck and play forward.
I would like to see Bolton, somewhat unleash the boys a bit and release the shackles on the game plan we have. It;'s only going to hurt us IMHO from now until the end of the year.
I think some exciting brand of footy to ignite the boys and excite them, get them playing on instinct and use their natural talents, would be ideal right now. I don't think we necessarily need to wait until 2018 for this to occur.
Element of surprise also!
If Kreuzer doesn't come up, I'd be using Casboult and Jones to ruck and play forward.
I would like to see Bolton, somewhat unleash the boys a bit and release the shackles on the game plan we have. It;'s only going to hurt us IMHO from now until the end of the year.
I think some exciting brand of footy to ignite the boys and excite them, get them playing on instinct and use their natural talents, would be ideal right now. I don't think we necessarily need to wait until 2018 for this to occur.
Element of surprise also!
Would releasing the shackles be better for their education??
Or would it hinder the ability for players to learn our game plan??
Ratts won what he won because he released the shackles and told them all to stream forward. We never reigned it back in again though, and players stopped developing and unless you hit the ground running playing a particular way, your education ended there.
We need to do whats in our best interests contest by contest, and not geared towards any other outcome but what is good for "insert players name" developement.
Harry has played two senior AFL games now. He is applying learning of playing a certain way to his time at AFL level. Now, he isnt the only one, but given how long it has taken some of them to come on, should we change it up just because the season is over?? Process over outcome. We stick to the process to yield better outcomes. Sometimes change will be mutually exclusive, and perhaps we will need to, but its not to "release" anything, but rather to stop people nullyfying our game plan.
So, teaching players to flood back, chip and kick, play a zone etc. constitutes learning and development, yet encouraging players to kick a winning score by being more offensive constitutes what exactly ? No learning and no development ?
So, teaching players to flood back, chip and kick, play a zone etc. constitutes learning and development, yet encouraging players to kick a winning score by being more offensive constitutes what exactly ? No learning and no development ?
This is the biggest problem and risk with the 'defensive' approach we have taken - it now appears like it has become 'all or nothing' for the players. They are playing a very negative style, with no one creating run or space. Everyone is concerned about covering their man or the space - especially in the back line. Last week we had less than 100 handballs, and no overlap run or creativity out of the backline at all. This makes it incredibly simple for the opposition to play against.
I will continue to bang on about the need for a more 'balanced' approach. To win football games you need to score, and you need to generate at least 25 scoring shots per game to have a better than even money chance. You can't 'flick the switch' as some people advocate - just look at Fremantle as a perfect example of what happens when you priortise defence over attack. It takes years to remedy.
Our guys have to learn that to win games at this level you need to create scoring opportunities with just as much priority as defending. It is all about balance and teaching guys about when to attack and when to defend within the game and the context of the situation they face.
All the stats tell you our first instinct is almost always to go short or sideways with a kick, no overlap runners, and if in doubt kick long down the line to a contest. From a stoppage a hack kick is preferred to a creative handpass to someone spreading into space [usually because no one is]. If we can't find a better a balance between defensive play and attack I really fear we will continue to get smashed like last week because we aren't physically strong enough, and our medium / long term prospects will be damaged.
Excellent post sbf. There are too many cliches and myths around all sports, including ours, and no real in depth, factual analysis, so the myths continue.
Malthouse was supposedly uber defensive, but if you look at the Pies in 2011, you will see that this is nonsense. No flag of course, but they had the highest points for, lowest against, and a % of 167. Similarly in 2011 we finished 5th and even though Ratts was supposedly attack only, we were 5th in points for and 5th for points conceded. This, to me, is how it should be done - teaching a balance between attack and defense.
When I watch us now, it seems to me that we possess the ball not to do anything useful with it, but merely to ensure the opposition doesn't - possession based on fear.
This season we are on track to finish last in points for and 8th in points conceded - it may all end up rosy, but at this point I don't like it. I don't like it one bit.
I think you guys have misunderstood my post.
Im actually asking more questions rather than providing answers, and then stating that all we need to do is the best course of action to improve our players.
Im not the coach, and I dont have those answers, but Bolton seems to have an idea of what he wants, and I can only imagine that we all dont really know because we dont undersand it, not because anyone is "right" or "wrong".
I think you guys have misunderstood my post.
Im actually asking more questions rather than providing answers, and then stating that all we need to do is the best course of action to improve our players.
Im not the coach, and I dont have those answers, but Bolton seems to have an idea of what he wants, and I can only imagine that we all dont really know because we dont undersand it, not because anyone is "right" or "wrong".
Every senior coach that has ever lived knows more about footy that any on here, including Bolton. Yet a lot of those coaches have suffered bad endings, for a variety of reasons, some within their control, and some not. Whatever knowledge they possess, they clearly must make choices among a plethora of alternatives. I just hope Bolton knows what he's doing, has some luck and makes good choices. I couldn't bear another coach getting the a r s e yet again, and us having to start from scratch, yet again.
I couldn't bear another coach getting the a r s e yet again, and us having to start from scratch, yet again.
It's like looking into a crystal ball!
It's like looking into a crystal ball!
My crystal ball is on strike and is refusing to come back to work, because of overuse.
Nick Graham won't be playing. Got suspended for 2 weeks at the VFL Tribunal for rough conduct.
If Kreuzer is out this week bring Jaksch in to play key defence and ruck Jones and Casboult. Jones was an absolute gun in the ruck for the NBs.
Nick Graham won't be playing. Got suspended for 2 weeks at the VFL Tribunal for rough conduct.
ouch, maybe his afl career is over?
If Kreuzer is out this week bring Jaksch in to play key defence and ruck Jones and Casboult. Jones was an absolute gun in the ruck for the NBs.
It's worth a try, but a couple of things.
I'd bring in JGM instead of Jaksch.
Most of Jones VFL ruck opponents were undersized compared to AFL opponents, would we want to flirt with Jones form?
It's worth a try, but a couple of things.
I'd bring in JGM instead of Jaksch.
Most of Jones VFL ruck opponents were undersized compared to AFL opponents, would we want to flirt with Jones form?
No one will stop him around the ground. They'll be sore bodies.
JGM's struggling in the VFL. Jaksch has a $hit attitude but his form's good.
JGM's struggling in the VFL. Jaksch has a $hit attitude but his form's good.
I'd rather test JGM at the higher level, than see Jaksch fry another opportunity.
JGM has a heavier body, and is more aggressive than Jaksch.
I think Jaksch is done, I suspect the clubs thinks that also, if they don't think that he is done then why not play him while he has some form and pump up his trade value? I feel that opportunity has passed, I've put him in the Watson category!
I'd rather test JGM at the higher level, than see Jaksch fry another opportunity.
JGM has a heavier body, and is more aggressive than Jaksch.
I think Jaksch is done, I suspect the clubs thinks that also, if they don't think that he is done then why not play him while he has some form and pump up his trade value? I feel that opportunity has passed, I've put him in the Watson category!
JGM will be lucky to survive the cut too. He's certainly not that good. Jaskch regularly plays good footy in the VFL just has an attitude problem that will see his demise. Footy ability isn't his issue.
Jaksch doesn't play to fry and opportunity.
JGM will be lucky to survive the cut too. He's certainly not that good. Jaskch regularly plays good footy in the VFL just has an attitude problem that will see his demise. Footy ability isn't his issue.
Jaksch doesn't play to fry and opportunity.
There is a good chance you are correct about Jaksch and JGM in regards to the cut.
I'm not convinced by Jaksch's form line, it's a quarter here and a quarter there, a lot of his KPP success has come from being a loose man or a crumber getting cheap goals out the back. Not something you want from a guy 195cm and +90kg, leave that job to the munchkins! In some respect Jaksch plays in the exact opposite of the style delivered by the reformed Jones. Jaksch lacks intensity, relies on someone to give him the ball, and impacts marking contests very little. He benefited greatly early in the season by having Jones and Silvagni doing teh heavy lifting with help from O'Shea, Phillips and McKay. When Jaksch isn't the main KPP, when he is surrounded by other tall players taking the KPP heat, he's played some good games but I don't see a future for him in that role. As the VFL coach himself writes, Jaksch's good VFL form is really just the baseline he's expected to achieve.
Prior to breaking his jaw I thought JGM's pre-season and early VFL form was right up there putting him in the running for spot. But at the time we had Plowman, Williamson and Marchbank all playing well. He looked worth a go at the higher levels, but I concede it would be a stretched to have him in the line up as well as Macreadie and Williamson.
Not sure about JGM but the simple fact that KJ has not been given any senior game time is a strong indicator IMO that his papers are already stamped. Could be proved wrong yet of course but reports of some of his efforts in the NBs would seem to justify at least one senior outing?
Would Jaksch perform better at senior level? many players dont bust a gut in the twos but lift for the ones, I'd like to see KJ get a game or two before we cast him adrift...
Would Jaksch perform better at senior level? many players dont bust a gut in the twos but lift for the ones, I'd like to see KJ get a game or two before we cast him adrift...
6 games in 2015, 1 in 2016, nada so far this season - tells a very sorry tale.
6 games in 2015, 1 in 2016, nada so far this season - tells a very sorry tale.
You'd also think that with your career on the line you would leave absolutely nothing left in order to get back into the 1s. That's what I don't get about him, surely the coaches have been consistent in their feedback so why has it taken until now for a semi positive response from Fraser in the weekly summary?
You'd also think that with your career on the line you would leave absolutely nothing left in order to get back into the 1s. That's what I don't get about him, surely the coaches have been consistent in their feedback so why has it taken until now for a semi positive response from Fraser in the weekly summary?
My guess is that he's a lifestyle footy player - he simply doesn't want it badly enough.
Would releasing the shackles be better for their education??
Or would it hinder the ability for players to learn our game plan??
Ratts won what he won because he released the shackles and told them all to stream forward. We never reigned it back in again though, and players stopped developing and unless you hit the ground running playing a particular way, your education ended there.
We need to do whats in our best interests contest by contest, and not geared towards any other outcome but what is good for "insert players name" developement.
Harry has played two senior AFL games now. He is applying learning of playing a certain way to his time at AFL level. Now, he isnt the only one, but given how long it has taken some of them to come on, should we change it up just because the season is over?? Process over outcome. We stick to the process to yield better outcomes. Sometimes change will be mutually exclusive, and perhaps we will need to, but its not to "release" anything, but rather to stop people nullyfying our game plan.
Would it better their education...in short it's a massive YES.
A no brainer for mine. Be bold. It takes courage to flick the switch. I think too many are scared of what might happen.
Can't even compare now to Ratten's time. Not a good example for mine. Ratts, a terrible coach, who relied on Judd's output and a frenzy offense from the get go. Nothing alike to the work Bolton has put in. The grounding in there....NOW, it's time to flick the switch for a few games, or until the end of the year (5 games).
I must have missed the announcement for open mike night at csc. I've got some material I'd like to try out as well.
6 games in 2015, 1 in 2016, nada so far this season - tells a very sorry tale.
You'd also think that with your career on the line you would leave absolutely nothing left in order to get back into the 1s. That's what I don't get about him, surely the coaches have been consistent in their feedback so why has it taken until now for a semi positive response from Fraser in the weekly summary?
You'd also think that with your career on the line you would leave absolutely nothing left in order to get back into the 1s. That's what I don't get about him, surely the coaches have been consistent in their feedback so why has it taken until now for a semi positive response from Fraser in the weekly summary?
Feels like I've read this before somewhere jeffy ::)
One answer could be that we don't have anyone else to fill a role in the 1's. The spin might function to prepare folk to see him run out on Saturday at the G. Or not ;)
Would it better their education...in short it's a massive YES.
A no brainer for mine. Be bold. It takes courage to flick the switch. I think too many are scared of what might happen.
Can't even compare now to Ratten's time. Not a good example for mine. Ratts, a terrible coach, who relied on Judd's output and a frenzy offense from the get go. Nothing alike to the work Bolton has put in. The grounding in there....NOW, it's time to flick the switch for a few games, or until the end of the year (5 games).
Ratten a terrible coach? You're joking. The only time we've done anything in the last 15 years with a list that wasn't that great. Had to get the best out of alot if rookie listed players to do what he did. That's never sustainable. If he had SOS back then he would've gone way better.
He had a win/loss record of 60/59. Not bad given he lost his first 9 including the first 6 that we tanked.
You'd also think that with your career on the line you would leave absolutely nothing left in order to get back into the 1s. That's what I don't get about him, surely the coaches have been consistent in their feedback so why has it taken until now for a semi positive response from Fraser in the weekly summary?
It's attitude as he has often played well enough to play senior footy. Attitude must really suck.
Anyway, give him ago for a couple of weeks just to see what he can do before we sack him.
no way KJ ,we need in runners for this game ,bring in armfield ,boekhurst ,pickett,ess game style is quick ball movement simple
I think that we'll go OK this week, we're a lot more comfortable at the MCG and Essendon are nothing flash.
I think that we'll go OK this week, we're a lot more comfortable at the MCG and Essendon are nothing flash.
we'll go ok = win or honorable loss ?
We can't take a trick with our big guys, McKay gone down with a toe injury.
Can someone stop breaking mirrors!
Big H out with Turf Toe.....Cmon Man....You kidding me....Toughen Up Princess...You Got Your Opportunity...Bloody Well Take It >:(
CARLTON'S ROUND 20 TEAM:
Backs 6. Kade Simpson 14. Liam Jones 23. Jacob Weitering
Half-backs 1. Jack Silvagni 22. Caleb Marchbank 20. Lachie Plowman
Centreline 11. Sam Kerridge 4. Bryce Gibbs 39. Dale Thomas
Half-forwards 13. Jed Lamb 41. Levi Casboult 25. Zac Fisher
Forwards 46. Matthew Wright 30. Charlie Curnow 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton
Followers 8. Matthew Kreuzer 15. Sam Docherty 3. Marc Murphy (C)
Interchange 27. Dennis Armfield 12. Blaine Boekhorst 33. Jarrod Pickett
16. Billie Smedts
Emergencies 18. Kristian Jaksch 24. Rhys Palmer 21. Ciaran Sheehan
In: Armfield, Smedts, Boekhorst, Pickett
Out: White (knee), Cuningham (ankle), Williamson (illness), McKay (toe)
no way KJ ,we need in runners for this game ,bring in armfield ,boekhurst ,pickett,ess game style is quick ball movement simple
KJ will only play if Kreuzer is out.
KJ will only play if Kreuzer is out.
Might have played KJ and rested Weitering who in racing terms looks due for a spell ...
The four ins are all named on the bench, I don't think I've ever seen that before.
Pickett needs to take his chance, he's got some ability but he could disappear without a trace if he doesn't get a move on.
Good to see Armfield back in the side, he's only an average footballer but he's a hard worker.
We're a good chance if our second stringers step up.
The other mob have rested two players. Says something about their mindset. We have a sniff.
Bench is awful. I'd take an 8 goal loss, this could get very ugly.
Bench is awful. I'd take an 8 goal loss, this could get very ugly.
I'm trying to stay positive but agree that bench is more about hope than any great form in the NB's that won them a place in the team this week..
Added some more mature bodies...we're going for the "win" this week :D
Liam Jones needs to be within 6 feet of Daniher all day. And every time the ball comes in Liam needs to smash in.... Joe will get his usual heap of frees, (which only the officials see) might as well really make him earn every touch.
If Kreuzer doesn't front up fit their midfield will kill us.
Liam Jones needs to be within 6 feet of Daniher all day. And every time the ball comes in Liam needs to smash in.... Joe will get his usual heap of frees, (which only the officials see) might as well really make him earn every touch.
If Kreuzer doesn't front up fit their midfield will kill us.
Think the emphasis might be on not getting beat too bad but keeping that No 2 pick...
One more win up north and it might be pick no. 1.
One more win up north and it might be pick no. 1.
The % difference is too great between us and the Lions to make up in the last few rounds - pick 2 is the best we can hope for, although I would prefer having pick 18 as my first, anyhoo...........
Liam Jones needs to be within 6 feet of Daniher all day. And every time the ball comes in Liam needs to smash in.... Joe will get his usual heap of frees, (which only the officials see) might as well really make him earn every touch.
If Kreuzer doesn't front up fit their midfield will kill us.
If Kreuzer's out Jones will ruck with Levi and Jaksch will play i'd say.
If Kreuzer doesn't come up you'd expect KJ to come in as the tall forward with Meat doing the ruck work.
Cuningham was useless against Geelong so that's no loss. White strugged and Williamson was okay. Would have liked to see H go again.
The 4 ins are, well, about the only 4 you could bring in! Hopefully Boekhorst can impress his future suitors. Might be Den Dens final game, chance for Pickett to show his wares and there are those of us who see potential in Billie so hopefully he can show us something. Probably our best chance for a win before the season concludes.
If Kreuzer's out Jones will ruck with Levi and Jaksch will play i'd say.
That would be something to see, it'd be the Pagan era revisited.
Think the emphasis might be on not getting beat too bad but keeping that No 2 pick...
Yes, we really need to contain the damage now for the rest of the year which may damage morale, and avoid any bad beatings, especially v. the Bummers!
Yes, we really need to contain the damage now for the rest of the year which may damage morale, and avoid any bad beatings, especially v. the Bummers!
If the team I play for in a professional sporting competition was sitting 2nd last out of 18 teams, I reckon my morale may already be up the poop chute.
Loving those sigs of yours cookie. The Amazon one, plus this new one. Keep em coming............
Yes, we really need to contain the damage now for the rest of the year which may damage morale, and avoid any bad beatings, especially v. the Bummers!
I wouldn't be writing us off against this mob.
BB might release the shackles a little so we can run, risk and carry rather than the ultra safe, kick-n-posses, model we're showing at present; the minimize damage style.
That would be something to see, it'd be the Pagan era revisited.
Jones really gunned it in the ruck in the NBs before they put him in defence. We mightn't win many tapouts but we'd go alright around the ground not to mention the opposition bodies getting smashed about.
Jones really gunned it in the ruck in the NBs before they put him in defence. We mightn't win many tapouts but we'd go alright around the ground not to mention the opposition bodies getting smashed about.
I just hope Kreuzer plays otherwise it could get very ugly.
If Kreuzer's out Jones will ruck with Levi and Jaksch will play i'd say.
If KJ plays, that will be 41 players used of the 46 players used.
If Kreuzer is out KJ comes in and rucks the Cam Pedersen role, basically nuisance value. The ball will be on the ground most of the time so it's about halving the contest. Don't upset Jones' momentum in the back or rob us up forward by moving Casboult. Just tell KJ to get off his ar$e and compete.
I wouldn't be writing us off against this mob.
BB might release the shackles a little so we can run, risk and carry rather than the ultra safe, kick-n-posses, model we're showing at present; the minimize damage style.
We weren't too successful at containing the damage last week Baggers. I would hope we can do a lot better this week and I'm not writing us off for sure.
If the team I play for in a professional sporting competition was sitting 2nd last out of 18 teams, I reckon my morale may already be up the poop chute.
Loving those sigs of yours cookie. The Amazon one, plus this new one. Keep em coming............
Ok Paul, will do my best.????
I wouldn't be writing us off against this mob.
BB might release the shackles a little so we can run, risk and carry rather than the ultra safe, kick-n-posses, model we're showing at present; the minimize damage style.
I agree.
Our young kids have played a lot of football with and against their young kids, there are no starstruck effects to worry about, the outcome is just a kids versus kids issue.
We've lost two defenders in White and Williamson and a key forward in McKay and we've included three utility types and a small forward struggling to get a kick in the VFL, none of whom are noted for their defensive skills.
Essendon will need to have a very bad day or Murphy and Gibbs will need to have 80 touches between them.
We've lost two defenders in White and Williamson and a key forward in McKay and we've included three utility types and a small forward struggling to get a kick in the VFL, none of whom are noted for their defensive skills.
Essendon will need to have a very bad day or Murphy and Gibbs will need to have 80 touches between them.
Actually Pickett was very effective in last week's win from all report. 2 goals and plenty of activity....
i think they're good ins given the fast style the Bummers employ.
Willo has looked cooked ever since he's come back and similarly White off the pace similarly....
Actually Pickett was very effective in last week's win from all report. 2 goals and plenty of activity....
i think they're good ins
Pickett had his best game for a month and still had single figure possessions, the ins are about the best we can manage but I wouldn't call them good.
Pickett had his best game for a month and still had single figure possessions, the ins are about the best we can manage but I wouldn't call them good.
I was thinking its lucky he does a lot without much of the ball because we are odds on to chase tail again around the park this saturday.
Pickett needs a bit of time down back to learn some insight into the game as a whole...he has only one gear and thats fast forward at every opportunity. He has the tools to be a very good and exciting player as I have said many times before but he just needs to become a better decision maker and know when to curb his natural instinct and play safe.
Liam Jones is a classic example of not knowing much about the game and appreciating raw talent needs to be combined with intelligent decision making and the only way is to be given a job where you have responsibility for the entire game minding a man, relying on and combining with others and thats down back in a defensive role.
At the moment Pickett is a one man show who does his own thing when he feels like it.....shades of Chris Yarran but I think we need to stick with Pickett and give him the Liam Jones treatment and see how much he wants to learn and have an AFL career.
Despite our injury woes, despite our youth, despite our form line, I cannot help but have a good feeling about tomorrow!
Hopefully we are not playing Sunday! ;D
Could we see a record number of long sleeves jumpers tomorrow??
I can count 8-10 possibles.
Could we see a record number of long sleeves jumpers tomorrow??
I can count 8-10 possibles.
Simpson
Gibbs
Jack
SPS
Marchbank
Plowman
Daisy
Boekhorst
Wright
Fisher
??
Who did i miss?
I'll have the long 'un on as well tomorrow, too cold to get the gunz out.
Pickett needs a bit of time down back to learn some insight into the game as a whole...he has only one gear and thats fast forward at every opportunity. He has the tools to be a very good and exciting player as I have said many times before but he just needs to become a better decision maker and know when to curb his natural instinct and play safe.
Liam Jones is a classic example of not knowing much about the game and appreciating raw talent needs to be combined with intelligent decision making and the only way is to be given a job where you have responsibility for the entire game minding a man, relying on and combining with others and thats down back in a defensive role.
At the moment Pickett is a one man show who does his own thing when he feels like it.....shades of Chris Yarran but I think we need to stick with Pickett and give him the Liam Jones treatment and see how much he wants to learn and have an AFL career.
Couldn't agree more, lad needs time off the wing/hb