Good Friday footy against North.
I hope North wear a guernsey that looks less like ours for a change. That was a shocker.
Which one of the McKays will be a late withdrawal this time?
Which one of the McKays will be a late withdrawal this time?
I know Ben won't be playing in this game. :D
Which one of the McKays will be a late withdrawal this time?
Essendon…
I’m predicting that Harry will need to rest a niggle and give Ben a chance to impress his new club.
Fingers crossed that we can get Weitering, Martin and Motlop back for this. Larkey will have a field day on Young otherwise.
It would be strange seeing as many as 4 changes to the team after two wins...
IN: Weitering, Martin, Motlop, Hollands.
OUT: Young, Fantasia, Durdin, Cunningham
Working on the assumption that Walsh is still a couple of weeks away.
Other than Weitering the rest have to come back through the VFL.
Will be good to see how we go against this "expansion" team.
Fingers crossed that we can get Weitering, Martin and Motlop back for this. Larkey will have a field day on Young otherwise.
It would be strange seeing as many as 4 changes to the team after two wins...
IN: Weitering, Martin, Motlop, Hollands.
OUT: Young, Fantasia, Durdin, Cunningham
Working on the assumption that Walsh is still a couple of weeks away.
Larkey usually does well on Weitering too if he gets supply, we should win this game vs Clarkson's kids but after last night we will need a better start and more intensity for four quarters. Id expect Charlie and Harry to have it all their way down forward and be looking for a percentage booster. Not sure Id be risking all our injury returning players but would be happy to see Weitering return to steady the backline as MBB suggested..
I know Ben won't be playing in this game. :D
lol....oh yeah.
Other than Weitering the rest have to come back through the VFL.
E.Hollands will start, he's trained all the way through.
Get to watch this one on a boat cruise around Japan. Probably on the replay on the AFL Site a couple of days later. Kayo I won't get but I can listen to the broadcast.
Larkey usually does well on Weitering too
Like many others, Weitering can struggle against a fast leading opponent but it might be his only major weakness.
I think E. Hollands will be playing. Fantasia is likely to miss out. Not sure he is fully fit. Weitering is a strong possibility.
If Elijah Hollands comes in, who does he take the place of?
I'm not certain he comes in because i'm not certain players playing a similar position deserve to be dropped.
Young -> Weitering
Owies/Fantasia -> Martin
Thats about it i reckon.
If Elijah Hollands comes in, who does he take the place of?
I'm not certain he comes in because i'm not certain players playing a similar position deserve to be dropped.
Young -> Weitering
Owies/Fantasia -> Martin
Thats about it i reckon.
Reckon they might give Martin a run through the twos first.
Anyway, time will soon tell.
Cunningham might make way for one of the returning/ debut players
Reckon they might give Martin a run through the twos first.
Anyway, time will soon tell.
Could they not do that while we have the bye?
I'd have him straight in if fit. Can't be any less productive than our smaller forwards at the moment.
Yes, Weiters back to get the defence organised and to steady us a bit. We looked shakey a few times down back last night and Larkey could certainly cause some mayhem.
Martin would be nice too! Just hoping. I'm not expecting Walshy back just yet.
Yes, Weiters back to get the defence organised and to steady us a bit. We looked shakey a few times down back last night and Larkey could certainly cause some mayhem.
Martin would be nice too! Just hoping. I'm not expecting Walshy back just yet.
Docherty missing from the defence (even though he's been playing further upfield) means we may not have a 'general' back there while Weitering is missing.
Still you would think with the experience of Saad, Newman, Williams and McGovern someone else would be taking up that 'role'.
Anyone stand out as the 'director' in Weitering's absence?
Out: Fantasia (omit), Young (omit)
In: Binns, Weitering
On notice : - Cunners, Hollands, Cottrell
Docherty missing from the defence (even though he's been playing further upfield) means we may not have a 'general' back there while Weitering is missing.
Still you would think with the experience of Saad, Newman, Williams and McGovern someone else would be taking up that 'role'.
Anyone stand out as the 'director' in Weitering's absence?
Newman.
Out: Fantasia (omit), Young (omit)
In: Binns, Weitering
On notice : - Cunners, Hollands, Cottrell
I'd be shocked if Binns were to be selected ahead of Holland or Cottrell, both of whom have shown much more.
I'd be shocked if Binns were to be selected ahead of Holland or Cottrell, both of whom have shown much more.
So would I. I think Cunners maybe will miss out.
We'll certainly be a lot fresher next round reading this.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/went-pretty-hard-coachs-bye-plan-theory-as-blues-eye-bigname-reinforcements/news-story/84865ed3b916bb002c18a921e325c628?fbclid=IwAR2zC-FExDYxX4kQ3-685KptHbi65ixu4FS6kVHldjSH54forIz4z8bWsAs
...and McGovern.
I think McGovern is better as a doer than a leader. No rule saying you can't be both. Newman does too, but I see him marshalling the troops down back. Realistically there is usually one setting it up, and weiters is normally that one. Newman I think performs that role well.
A few interesting headaches for the MC. I'd say when ready:
Motlop in for Fantasia
Weitering in for Young
Martin in for Cunningham
Walsh in for Kennedy
That leaves Elijah, does brother Ollie ironically make way?
Elijah could come in v North for Cunningham I guess but the other inevitable changes still have to occur.
Could they not do that while we have the bye?
I'd have him straight in if fit. Can't be any less productive than our smaller forwards at the moment.
Yes, forgot about that.
I think McGovern is better as a doer than a leader. No rule saying you can't be both. Newman does too, but I see him marshalling the troops down back. Realistically there is usually one setting it up, and weiters is normally that one. Newman I think performs that role well.
McGovern has been quite vocal and directing players of late. Growing into the role nicely. Newman was already there.
The (re)introduction of Weitering in that team with those 2, and veteran Adam Saad makes for a very solid group to work from.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1089935/big-blues-break-carlton-take-unique-approach-to-early-season-bye-ahead-of-good-friday-game-against-north-melbourne
I'd have him straight in if fit. Can't be any less productive than our smaller forwards at the moment.
For me it will be Martin In, Fantasia Out
Could they not do that while we have the bye?
I'd have him straight in if fit. Can't be any less productive than our smaller forwards at the moment.
The Reserves have a bye too ::)
Of course the AFL wouldn't give us an opportunity to get a game into returning players ...
The Reserves have a bye too ::)
Of course the AFL wouldn't give us an opportunity to get a game into returning players ...
On the contrary one might say we are playing a VFL standard side next Friday.
On the contrary one might say we are playing a VFL standard side next Friday.
That line of thought will be our undoing! ::)
Will Zac Fisher line up against us?
Was reasonable against GWS, gained nearly 500m running off the D50 side of centre.
Who would he stand, Owies, Cunningham, Fogarty?
Will Zac Fisher line up against us?
Was reasonable against GWS, gained nearly 500m running off the D50 side of centre.
Who would he stand, Owies, Cunningham, Fogarty?
From the Hun.
The former Blue had 17 kicks against the Giants, but five of them resulted in a direct turnover.
From the Hun.
The former Blue had 17 kicks against the Giants, but five of them resulted in a direct turnover.
Familiar territory for Fish; zero tackles and seven clangers.
Whoever gets him next week will be primed to exploit his poor defensive work while limiting his run out of defence.
It will be sad to see Fish in North colours though.
From the Hun.
The former Blue had 17 kicks against the Giants, but five of them resulted in a direct turnover.
I watched the first half of the first qtr, Fish turned it over every time he got it.
We have been good at scoring from turnover of late - how much are we going to score off Fisher's own boot?
Zac Williams had 5 from 15 possessions
Saad had 8 from 24 possessions.
Zac Fisher actually had 9 from 21 disposals.
It's the nature of the modern game, I wouldn't read too much into the turnovers unless some has drastically different figures from the wider AFL averages, Fans think everybody should be going at 80%, it's a fantasy for most players week in week out, 80% is a highlight game.
On the figures, people think I'm anti-Fantasia but at the moment for a player of Fantasia's experience his numbers are shocking, no matter how cheaply he has arrived the team has to have even contributors or it fatigues everybody else. Owies, Cunningham or Fogarty's work rate is worth 10x the odd Fantasia highlight, even if they didn't have the same goal assists.
We have been good at scoring from turnover of late - how much are we going to score off Fisher's own boot?
David King showed our scoring from turn overs is up 35 percent from last year. Also he attended a preseason session and Voss was focusing on ball movement only using handballs and he showed footage of us implementing it last week.
David King showed our scoring from turn overs is up 35 percent from last year. Also he attended a preseason session and Voss was focusing on ball movement only using handballs and he showed footage of us implementing it last week.
I think this is mostly due to stability in the playing and coaching group.
The focus on training specific tactics, or developing new tactics, isn't anything special, you just have to be around long enough for it to happen. On the flipside, stay around too long and the innovation can stall.
It's the nature of the modern game, I wouldn't read too much into the turnovers unless some has drastically different figures from the wider AFL averages, Fans think everybody should be going at 80%, it's a fantasy for most players week in week out, 80% is a highlight game.
On the figures, people think I'm anti-Fantasia but at the moment for a player of Fantasia's experience his numbers are shocking, no matter how cheaply he has arrived the team has to have even contributors or it fatigues everybody else. Owies, Cunningham or Fogarty's work rate is worth 10x the odd Fantasia highlight, even if they didn't have the same goal assists.
Actually, Fantasia's numbers aren't "shocking" if you look at the play and not just the statistics.
As David King has highlighted, we are using chains of handballs in different scenarios; forward handballs when there's an opportunity to run, lateral handballs to find a free player, etc. You will have also noticed handballs backwards over the player's shoulder. Fantasia has been playing deep in defence and he has taken possession with no likelihood of going forward apart from a dump kick. In that situation, he has handballed over his shoulder (as have several of his teammates so it's probably something they practice. The ball may reach a teammate but, more often than not, there's disputed possession and a ball up. That is counted as an ineffective disposal because it didn't reach the intended target, even though there may never have been an intended target. Handballing over the shoulder, perhaps to a voice, is a higher percentage play, in that situation, than a kick or handball forward. We invariably have an outnumber behind the ball running the ball out of defence and can force a stoppage. We can then set up in the knowledge that we're more likely to win the clearance.
So, what goes down as an ineffective disposal is actually a rehearsed, higher percentage play than the other options available.
I think that it was Newman or Hollands who passed to Saad only to have Vlastuin leave his man and effect a spoil. It was a short kick and, as Saad didn't win possession, it's counted as an ineffective disposal. If it had been a long kick with the same outcome, it would go down as an effective disposal. In both cases, the kicker doesn't determine the outcome.
Cuningham and Fogarty have different roles to Fantasia so there's not really much point in comparing them. Owies and Fantasia have similar roles, and both have been off the pace in my view. Owies managed to hit the scoreboard against the Tigers but Fantasia's kicking for goal has been unreliable and that is usually one of his strongpoints. Fantasia has had more of the ball but Owies has never been high possession winner. Fantasia hasn't made the most of his possessions but, as outlined above, disposal efficiency isn't a terribly reliable statistic. Fantasia and Owies are neck and neck when it comes to clangers, Owies has more turnovers, Fantasia has more intercepts, and Owies has more tackles.
Is Owies' workrate worth 10X Fantasia's? No, if anything Fantasia's workrate is higher because he's the one getting back in defence as Owies was doing last season. Perhaps that's a fitness thing and Owies will improve as he gets games under his belt, Fantasia should improve too.
Owies' two goals may save him but, if Motlop is fit, Owies and Fantasia are the two players most likely to make way.
Watched the North v Dockers game today. North were good early but you can see they're a relatively young side still. Turnovers and butchered the ball when they had Freo right under the pump early in the second quarter and then couldn't go on with it.
Apart from Larkey, they don't have any tall forwards and they don't really have any key defenders either. They've recruited a stack of talented midfielders over the last few seasons but no key position players that I can think of.
If we get plenty of the ball and use it well, Charlie and Harry should have a very Good Friday.
Fisher got plenty of the ball but doesn't kick it more than 30m and got caught on his wrong side plenty of times.
Watched the North v Dockers game today. North were good early but you can see they're a relatively young side still. Turnovers and butchered the ball when they had Freo right under the pump early in the second quarter and then couldn't go on with it.
Apart from Larkey, they don't have any tall forwards and they don't really have any key defenders either. They've recruited a stack of talented midfielders over the last few seasons but no key position players that I can think of.
If we get plenty of the ball and use it well, Charlie and Harry should have a very Good Friday.
Fisher got plenty of the ball but doesn't kick it more than 30m and got caught on his wrong side plenty of times.
North played Larkey and Coleman-Jones as key forwards and back up rucks, and Corr, Pink and K Dawson as key defenders. None of them made much of an impression.
Larkey and Coleman-Jones will trouble Kemp with their considerable size advantage, and Larkey's ability. Freo went with two tall key defenders and we should do the same.
North were good against an average team that was almost at full strength.
Fisher got plenty of the ball but doesn't kick it more than 30m and got caught on his wrong side plenty of times.
Still fails to chase back with anything like the acceleration he uses when he has the ball - won't be missed by me.
Fish sorted out his disposal issues this week … or Freo didn’t force him onto his weak side.
It will be interesting to see how he goes against us.
I have the feeling that this is a danger game this week but I am not sure exactly why. Maybe one reason is that North were 4-5 goals up against Freo in the 2nd quarter then missed 3 easy shots at goal that could have given them a bigger lead but they missed them all.
They played well in the first half. But we are better than Freo? Still, we need to start well coming off the bye worries me.
Maybe it's the Clarkson factor that still haunts me? Anyway, if we aspire to be a top four team, we need to put young developing teams like Norf to the sword and win and win well.
I have the feeling that this is a danger game this week but I am not sure exactly why. Maybe one reason is that North were 4-5 goals up against Freo in the 2nd quarter then missed 3 easy shots at goal that could have given them a bigger lead but they missed them all.
They played well in the first half. But we are better than Freo? Still, we need to start well coming off the bye worries me.
Maybe it's the Clarkson factor that still haunts me? Anyway, if we aspire to be a top four team, we need to put young developing teams like Norf to the sword and win and win well.
It's too many false dawns. Gritty teams would turn up and we'd struggle.
It's not really a cripps trait. North have been a bogey side for us, but their lack of key backs should see us win easily enough.
Agreed Thry.....if we're serious and on, we should win easily. We still need to learn how to really bury sides when we have the advantage and % could be critical come the pointy end of the season.
Agreed Thry.....if we're serious and on, we should win easily. We still need to learn how to really bury sides when we have the advantage and % could be critical come the pointy end of the season.
Agree on the percentage. For too many years we have been just hoping for a win, now we need a win + the percentage that goes when good sides have good wins.
Agreed Thry.....if we're serious and on, we should win easily. We still need to learn how to really bury sides when we have the advantage and % could be critical come the pointy end of the season.
I'm not sure whether we've learned to keep the foot on the throat of average opposition, with a couple of notable exceptions last season.
No AFL teams are easybeats, and North has some talent, but you'd have to be expecting at least a five goal margin.
Instagram post this morning suggesting Weitering is "locked in for a return for Carlton on Good Friday against North Melbourne".
Not confirmed yet but that'll be a huge boost.
Maybe Weitering/Martin in for Young/Fantasia?
Instagram post this morning suggesting Weitering is "locked in for a return for Carlton on Good Friday against North Melbourne".
Not confirmed yet but that'll be a huge boost.
Maybe Weitering/Martin in for Young/Fantasia?
Why would Young be dropped?
North have Larkey (198cm) and Coleman-Jones (200cm) as key forwards. If Weitering is back, he would have to take Larkey. As good as Kemp was against Richmond, he will struggle against Coleman-Jones. Young has been good in both games and would be the perfect match up for Coleman-Jones.
I guess it'll be one of those.....Young or Kemp. Kemp wouldn't be a bad option against Zurhaar when he's forward.
Dropping Kemp was a mistake last September, I don't think we should make that same mistake again.
Guv may have given a little too much away:
“There’s potential for [Weitering, Marchbank and Martin to return].
The boys have been having a really good training block, I’m really uncertain with what it is, it’s up to the coaching staff with how they get through this week.
Fingers crossed … either way, we’ve got the ‘next man up’ mindset, so we’ll see how we go.”
Dropping Kemp was a mistake last September, I don't think we should make that same mistake again.
I think that our defence works better with both Kemp and McGovern in the mix, but Kemp does struggle against much taller opponents. The problem is that all seven defenders are playing well and working well together. Weitering has to be an automatic in but who goes out ... Boyd?
Dropping Kemp was a mistake last September, I don't think we should make that same mistake again.
Yep, Id swing him or Gov forward for a game to see what that does to their defense.
Martin tweaked a hammy so he won't be back.
Martin tweaked a hammy so he won't be back.
I thought he was recovering from a knee injury
Missing another game?
The potential ins are Weitering (automatic), Marchbank (unlikely) and Motlop (probably).
I think that our defence works better with both Kemp and McGovern in the mix, but Kemp does struggle against much taller opponents. The problem is that all seven defenders are playing well and working well together. Weitering has to be an automatic in but who goes out ... Boyd?
Isn't this the discussion we were having in the other thread? Kemp and McGovern are good at filling in as a KPP but are not actually KPPs.
Hard to see both Marchbank and Weitering coming in. Weitering would be automatic and one of Young or Kemp likely goes out.
AFL article also mentioned Elijah Hollands in the mix too.
I think Motlop replaces Fantasia and Durdin probably survives as the sub....unless he's dropped for E. Hollands.
Maybe play Kemp in the forward line and bring Marchbank in.
Maybe play Kemp in the forward line and bring Marchbank in.
Hearing Tony Jones go into bat for 2m Peter makes me want to spew, Jones had Plowman hung, drawn and quartered before our lads judgement.
PS; What is Scott Jnr going to coach now, the AFL just removed 50% of his skill base!
Maybe play Kemp in the forward line and bring Marchbank in.
No
Isn't this the discussion we were having in the other thread? Kemp and McGovern are good at filling in as a KPP but are not actually KPPs.
I don’t consider McGovern to be a KPD and the club doesn’t either. He’s in the team for his intercept marking and ability to help the KPDs.
Kemp is a KPD but, like many of the KPDs who try to play on Harry McKay, he struggles against very tall opponents. It’s simply a matter of selecting the KPDs best able to play on the opposition KPFs. North have two very tall KPFs, one of whom is a very good footballer. I’d play Weitering on Larkey and Young on Coleman-Jones.
If the club doesn't think McGovern is a KPD, why when he came back through the VFL a couple of seasons ago did they play him in the ruck?
I don’t consider McGovern to be a KPD and the club doesn’t either. He’s in the team for his intercept marking and ability to help the KPDs.
Kemp is a KPD but, like many of the KPDs who try to play on Harry McKay, he struggles against very tall opponents. It’s simply a matter of selecting the KPDs best able to play on the opposition KPFs. North have two very tall KPFs, one of whom is a very good footballer. I’d play Weitering on Larkey and Young on Coleman-Jones.
https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/brodie-kemp/
The word on Kemp coming into the season was that he was destined for more midfield minutes after finding a home as a high-marking intercept defender in 2018, but he would end up having an impact just about everywhere. He adapted his kick-dominant game to become a handball-happy midfield extractor, was solid in his usual defensive post for Vic Country, and eventually a game winner for them up forward. Kemp’s success up forward lends to his key strengths of impact and overhead marking. He showed his worth with a huge contested mark in the dying seconds against South Australia to snare the winning goal, while doing the same twice in the last quarter against Western Australia to almost drag his side over the line. All were really game defining moments, and while Kemp does not win crazy amounts of the ball, he has important touches. Add to that a sub-three second 20m sprint and phenomenal agility and you have a prospect that can pull off just about anything. A good size to boot, Kemp would be a top 10 lock if not for his recent injury.
One mans opinion, sure, but shared by plenty of others.
Not sure how many 'midfield extractors' are classed as KPD's a year later.
Despite the size difference and despite my own personal opinion on the matter, i'd still prefer to play Weitering and Kemp over Weitering and Young.
Only way kemp will be defeated is if our team defence fails and he's left 1-on-1 with his taller opponent with no chance to jump at the ball.
Young on the other hand could be defeated by his opponent a number of ways.
No
Yeah agree - Marchy needs to wait and bide his time to see if an opportunity opens up later.
We aren't losing against this mob, surely those days are over.
Have to put a team to sleep soon and stamp our authority in the competition to send a message the team is capable at issuing beltings. But don't want to be Premiership favourites now imo.
Given Marchbank's inability to get out on the park and the fact that he hasn't played a game in a while, he's better off playing a couple of VFL games first.
If the club doesn't think McGovern is a KPD, why when he came back through the VFL a couple of seasons ago did they play him in the ruck?
What has playing in the ruck in the VFL got to do with being a KPD?
McGovern is not a key defender. The way our defence is structured means that he will occasionally stand an opposition KPF ... but so does Saad, Boyd and Newman. McGovern plays a similar role to Tom Stewart, an intercept defender, and usually picks up a medium forward. McGovern played on Darcy Gardiner, Cam Rayner, Josh Dunkley, etc against Brisbane and not on Daniher and Hipwood. He played on Martin against Richmond, not Lynch or Balta.
https://central.rookieme.com/afl/player/brodie-kemp/One mans opinion, sure, but shared by plenty of others.
Not sure how many 'midfield extractors' are classed as KPD's a year later.
Despite the size difference and despite my own personal opinion on the matter, i'd still prefer to play Weitering and Kemp over Weitering and Young.
Only way kemp will be defeated is if our team defence fails and he's left 1-on-1 with his taller opponent with no chance to jump at the ball.
Young on the other hand could be defeated by his opponent a number of ways.
Kemp played a couple of games in the midfield as a junior, that's it. SOS said that Kemp could play midfield when he was drafted, but he said that about Plowman, Marchbank, Stocker, and others. Despite the 'midfield extractor' tag, Kemp has played all of his football for us as a KPP.
Kemp does get beaten by taller opponents in one on one contests - Gawn in the semi - and by stronger opponents like Balta. He also loses contests when he attempts to mark rather than spoil. Young is more conservative and is happy to kill the contest if there's doubt about the outcome. Young is a better match up for Larkey and Coleman-Kones than Kemp is, and I would play both, regardless of whether Weitering is in the team.
Young has played his best football when Weitering is out.
So Weiters, Marchbank and Motlop available.
Weiters is an automatic, what of the others, I suspect not?
I think the obvious outs will be Young, and if needed Fantasia and probably Carroll(unlucky) to allow a reshuffle.
Cunningham is unlucky if he goes out because he has not done much wrong but he hasn't hit the scoreboard much either, same applies to Fogarty and Owies. But this may be the role they play while BigH is up and about. They have the experience over Carroll, so unless Carroll gets a F50 gig then he is unlucky. Cunningham and Fogarty are also mid capable.
Durdin is probably the least utilitarian, but he might scrape in again as an emergency as it's a bit tough to give a player the axe off the back of just a few minutes. For me Binns was the natural to get a run after Doc went down, with either one of Binns or Boyd getting further up the field to have a crack at hitting the scoreboard.
I'm still a bit surprised Durdin got a run ahead of Binns, I have to wonder what it is that Binns is doing wrong because he looks quite good at the lower level.
Elijah Hollands is available after his cocaine holiday (Will he have any niggling injuries that cause him to miss games? I suspect not.). I don’t think he did enough to warrant selection and I don’t think he would necessarily be an improvement over any of our current mids/forwards. I think that Binns would be ahead of Lij in the pecking order.
Motlop must be close to an automatic in, provided he is impressing at training. Fantasia is probably most at risk of losing his spot and I can’t see small Durdin in the 22.
I’d say Weitering and Motlop in for Boyd and Fantasia so expect something completely different 🙂
Is there a VFL game?
Is there a VFL game?
Yes, our first real VFL game is against North.
In that case I would only bring Weitering in.
Motlop can play midfield in the VFL and get 30 touches like he did last year and come in next week.
Kemp played a couple of games in the midfield as a junior, that's it. SOS said that Kemp could play midfield when he was drafted, but he said that about Plowman, Marchbank, Stocker, and others. Despite the 'midfield extractor' tag, Kemp has played all of his football for us as a KPP.
Kemp does get beaten by taller opponents in one on one contests - Gawn in the semi - and by stronger opponents like Balta. He also loses contests when he attempts to mark rather than spoil. Young is more conservative and is happy to kill the contest if there's doubt about the outcome. Young is a better match up for Larkey and Coleman-Kones than Kemp is, and I would play both, regardless of whether Weitering is in the team.
None of the other 'midfield' players played KP, so not sure why you bring that up, i think it hurts your argument more than helps it.
Kemp gets beaten by taller opponents....and by stronger opponents......does that not clearly point to the fact that is because is not a KPP? He doesn't have the size or strength to play there and be effective. Rather, he plays there because he is the best we've got at any given time, but is largely undersized.
Young is a better matchup, because he is an actual KPP. I think the 'errors' made by Young playing that role vs the 'errors' by Kemp playing that role mean that Kemp is the better player to have in the side.....even if it means you sacrifice some ability against the taller opponents that he'll be beaten one on one with. Mostly due to the fact that Young makes some silly errors that almost directly cost us goals.
To summarise, just because a player is played in a position, doesn't mean he is right for that position. If all our 190cm players got injured, someone would still have to play as a ruck on game day.....but just because we've shoehorned someone into that position, doesn't mean he is a genuine ruck. Same with Kemp, Marchbank......as KPPs.
None of the other 'midfield' players played KP, so not sure why you bring that up, i think it hurts your argument more than helps it.
Kemp gets beaten by taller opponents....and by stronger opponents......does that not clearly point to the fact that is because is not a KPP? He doesn't have the size or strength to play there and be effective. Rather, he plays there because he is the best we've got at any given time, but is largely undersized.
Young is a better matchup, because he is an actual KPP. I think the 'errors' made by Young playing that role vs the 'errors' by Kemp playing that role mean that Kemp is the better player to have in the side.....even if it means you sacrifice some ability against the taller opponents that he'll be beaten one on one with. Mostly due to the fact that Young makes some silly errors that almost directly cost us goals.
To summarise, just because a player is played in a position, doesn't mean he is right for that position. If all our 190cm players got injured, someone would still have to play as a ruck on game day.....but just because we've shoehorned someone into that position, doesn't mean he is a genuine ruck. Same with Kemp, Marchbank......as KPPs.
Kemp and Young did OK against Daniher and Hipwood and Lynch and Balta. They would probably do OK against Larkey and Coleman-Jones. Weitering and Kemp would be a better combination and Weitering and Young an even better combination.
Against other key forward pairs, Weitering and Kemp might be a better defensive combination than Weitering and Young. When you have several KPDs with different attributes, you can have a horses for courses approach. With the North game, Kemp would probably be our best match up for Zurhaar. McGovern could do the job but at the expense of his intercept marking and helping out the KPDs.
Agreed Thry.....if we're serious and on, we should win easily. We still need to learn how to really bury sides when we have the advantage and % could be critical come the pointy end of the season.
Would love to be sitting here on Saturday, watching the other 17 fanbases whinge about Charlie only kicking 10 against the bottom sides, again
Have to put a team to sleep soon and stamp our authority in the competition to send a message the team is capable at issuing beltings. But don't want to be Premiership favourites now imo.
Putting North Melb to sleep won't send a message. Putting Syd, GWS, Geel, Coll etc to sleep sends a message.
Given Marchbank's inability to get out on the park and the fact that he hasn't played a game in a while, he's better off playing a couple of VFL games first.
Minimum 2-3 games.
North tested the pies last year. If they rock up we might struggle if we fail to rock up.
Elijah Hollands will play. I’m not sure whether that’s an improvement. We’ll have to wait and see 🤔
Listening to the ABC and finance commentator Elio D’Amato just had a crack at Clarko for his cowardly attack on Ian Aitken in his off topic preview of Friday’s game. Our supporters have long memories.
Listening to the ABC and finance commentator Elio D’Amato just had a crack at Clarko for his cowardly attack on Ian Aitken in his off topic preview of Friday’s game. Our supporters have long memories.
That one's not easy to forget......
That one's not easy to forget......
That act tells you everything about the bloke.
He hasn't changed since IMO, still an undercurrent of nastiness.
Listening to the ABC and finance commentator Elio D’Amato just had a crack at Clarko for his cowardly attack on Ian Aitken in his off topic preview of Friday’s game. Our supporters have long memories.
Lifes too short to hold grudges like that for that long.
Lifes too short to hold grudges like that for that long.
I’m not sure that Elio was born when it happened 🤔
In:
Weitering
Marchbank
E Hollands
Out:
Young (omitted)
Kemp (omitted)
Cunningham (injured)
No its not. I still haven't forgiven Balme's hit on Southby.
In:
Weitering
Marchbank
E Hollands
Out:
Young (omitted)
Kemp (omitted)
Cunningham (injured)
Kemp omitted is harsh IMO
How Orazio keeps getting a game staggers me. Should buy a tatts ticket this week
The coaching group loves Marchy and he is in his contract year.
Cunners injured again.....wth
Kemp omitted is harsh IMO
Young omitted is harsh too, as is Hollands getting a game before Binns.
Weitering is an automatic in but I would have preferred Marchbank and Hollands to have earned their spots by dominating in the VFL.
But then again, what would I know?
Dont think Young and Kemp did much wrong and how Marchbank is an automatic amazes me....would have thought E.Hollands would have started in the twos and got a few credibility runs on the board given his recent events.
Agree with DJ on Binns...been as consistent as anyone in the twos and deserves a game imho.
Kemp's omission is a strange one for me.
If he's not considered part of the best defensive group try him somwhere else.
17 possessions at 82% and 10 marks (our best) against Richmond
Lifes too short to hold grudges like that for that long.
Lol
Kemp's omission is a strange one for me.
If he's not considered part of the best defensive group try him somwhere else.
17 possessions at 82% and 10 marks (our best) against Richmond
He is not even listed in the emergencies whereas young is.
If I was another club I would've picked up the phone to see what it would take to pry him out. Might not take muchbif we keep dropping him.
How Orazio keeps getting a game staggers me. Should buy a tatts ticket this week
Either him or c during will be the sub imo.
Hopefully we come out firing tomorrow.
The bye doesn't seem to have helped Brisbane. Early days but they look as flat as a tack.
Kemp's omission is a strange one for me.
If he's not considered part of the best defensive group try him somwhere else.
17 possessions at 82% and 10 marks (our best) against Richmond
And Young had 17 disposals at 94% and nine marks!
Marchbank will have to play a blinder, as will Weitering 🙂
Great changes.
Not surprised both Young and Kemp got the flick, as I mentioned previously, they have been adequate, but not excellent.
I feel for Kempy, he's nearly there - but he's gotta stop trying to take the spekky in defense. It's like we're not entirely sure where to put him. His quality will shine soon enough.
The lack of authority in Young's game is of concern - stopper, spoiler, safe... we need more than that, but as a fill-in - great.
I would have been surprised if Fantasia was dropped, and if Motlop was fit I think he would have been, but his smarts and leadership contribute plenty - but he needs to do more.
Great changes.
Not surprised both Young and Kemp got the flick, as I mentioned previously, they have been adequate, but not excellent.
I feel for Kempy, he's nearly there - but he's gotta stop trying to take the spekky in defense. It's like we're not entirely sure where to put him. His quality will shine soon enough.
The lack of authority in Young's game is of concern - stopper, spoiler, safe... we need more than that, but as a fill-in - great.
I would have been surprised if Fantasia was dropped, and if Motlop was fit I think he would have been, but his smarts and leadership contribute plenty - but he needs to do more.
I will be very surprised if Marchbank produces anywhere near the output of Kemp or Young. When Marchy’s on, he’s a decent defender but he hasn’t played since last season and should have run out with the twos this week.
Larkey will be too good for him and, although Coleman-Jones is a bit of a spud, he’s a tall spud and could well be far too big for Marchy.
I hope we’re not getting ahead of ourselves, rushing Cola Hollands into the team after mediocre performances in our practice matches suggests that we are.
Our line-up:
Backs: Caleb Marchbank Jacob Weitering Zac Williams
Half-backs: Adam Saad Mitch McGovern Nic Newman
Centreline: Ollie Hollands Patrick Cripps Blake Acres
Half-forwards: Matthew Owies Harry McKay Matthew Kennedy
Forwards: Elijah Hollands Charlie Curnow Lachie Fogarty
Followers: Tom De Koning Adam Cerra George Hewett
Interchange: Jordan Boyd Jack Carroll Matthew Cottrell Corey Durdin Orazio Fantasia
Emergencies: Jaxon Binns Marc Pittonet Lewis Young
My 2 cents on our selections:
[1] I can't imagine why Marchbank isn't coming back via the VFL. I know he was very good last start, but ... Kemp, in particular, is unlucky. I thought he played pretty well last week and took some important marks when it was necessary. Young also did little wrong; Lynch's goals were very suspect. Having 2 underdone key defenders does not seem to be smart to me.
[2] Corey Durdin and Orazio Fantasia are very lucky to be there. Neither has done much so far. To be honest, I was hoping that Fantasia could get some form and match fitness in the VFL. Durdin worked quite well last week, but he only had 2 possessions.
[3] I'm interested to see Pitto as an emergency. If Goldstein were still playing for North, I'd have liked to have him in the ruck. Xerri is a bull, but I'm hoping Tom can out-jump him. Having the extra tall forward (Tom resting) could really stretch their backline.
[4] Binns can't be far away, nor Cincotta.,Binns didn't impress so much in the VFL last week, but Cincotta did.
[5] North have a very attacking pair of HBF's, but neither of them defend so much. Playing through their opponents might be a smart idea.
....rushing Coke Hollands into the team..
Classy stuff.
Elijah was reasonably successful in the pre-season. If we hadn't had the bye, he probably would have played last week. But he is a risk.
Elijah was reasonably successful in the pre-season. If we hadn't had the bye, he probably would have played last week. But he is a risk.
Got to give the lad a go, ready made player, very classy, too good for VFL.
Elijah was reasonably successful in the pre-season. If we hadn't had the bye, he probably would have played last week. But he is a risk.
He will probably surprise me and do OK but I saw nothing from him in the practice matches that made him an automatic in. And he hardly set the world on fire at Gold Coast.
VFL will be interesting to see if Kemp will play as a forward. He will be a very good High half forward/third tall imo
Classy stuff.
I’ve changed it 🙂
I’ve changed it 🙂
I laughed.
Weird week, just weird!
Another 4 points in the bag with NO injuries please.
Another 4 points in the bag with NO injuries please.
A bit of % wouldn't hurt either.....
We have gone back to the defence we fielded in the prelim but with Williams in place of Cincotta. That seems to be Vossy’s preferred defensive line up and, to be honest, it worked OK in the prelim. We lose Young’s ability to mind gorillas and gain Weitering’s equivalent ability plus his generalship and capacity to play on virtually any forward. We lose Kemp’s contested marking and ability to run both ways and gain Marchbank’s intercept marking and smart positioning … provided he’s fit and in form.
I think we’ll win but not by as much as I was hoping for. A comfortable win but not necessarily a percentage booster. Zurhaar might be a problem 🤔
If that is to be our first choice defence, it does raise questions about Kemp and Young. Kemp attributes his improved, more consistent form to Vossy’s decision to have him focus on his key defender role. I can’t see that changing, or the dynamics of forward line changing so Kemp will be a depth defender, as will Cincotta, Young and Cowan.
My only problem with pigeonholing Kemp as a defender is that unless we try another option for him we'll never know.
I just think he's too good a player not to be playing senior football.
My only problem with pigeonholing Kemp as a defender is that unless we try another option for him we'll never know.
I just think he's too good a player not to be playing senior football.
Kemp was used as a key forward and key defender but was unable to win a place in the firsts in either of those roles. In his own words:
"I was, and still am, open to my strengths of being able to play multiple positions.
Vossy and I, we sat down last year and pieced together what we wanted to go after. We always wanted to keep the prospect of me being able to play multiple positions or play forward up our sleeve, but we just all agreed that we wanted to go after one role and being really clear on that.
I still like the idea of being able to play multiple positions, depending on what happens in a game or if there are areas I need to fill. But the continuity of just locking in one role and really going after that, it was good for me. It just gave me that clarity that I needed, in terms of what I wanted to go after."
The club could change his focus to key forward with the ability to go back but I suspect that his attributes lend themselves more to playing in defence.
Or maybe its just horses for courses and Kemp has no obvious match up so we've gone a bit taller with another interceptor with more experience.
Got to give the lad a go, ready made player, very classy, too good for VFL.
Reckon he has to earn a game not be given one...
Or maybe its just horses for courses and Kemp has no obvious match up so we've gone a bit taller with another interceptor with more experience.
I’m not sure that we’re up to that Thry.
North have a couple of players that we’ll struggle to match up in Zurhaar and Duursma. Kemp could do the job on both.
Kemp was used as a key forward and key defender but was unable to win a place in the firsts in either of those roles. In his own words:
"I was, and still am, open to my strengths of being able to play multiple positions.
Vossy and I, we sat down last year and pieced together what we wanted to go after. We always wanted to keep the prospect of me being able to play multiple positions or play forward up our sleeve, but we just all agreed that we wanted to go after one role and being really clear on that.
I still like the idea of being able to play multiple positions, depending on what happens in a game or if there are areas I need to fill. But the continuity of just locking in one role and really going after that, it was good for me. It just gave me that clarity that I needed, in terms of what I wanted to go after."
The club could change his focus to key forward with the ability to go back but I suspect that his attributes lend themselves more to playing in defence.
Noticed him playing a bit forward today.
Kicked 1-1
Noticed him playing a bit forward today.
Kicked 1-1
We had Lemmey in defence and he looked more comfortable than Kemp in the forward line. It must be difficult to change your game when all of your preparation is as a defender.
Cincotta did OK in the midfield. That may be another string to his bow.
Is VFL on kayo this year ?
Or maybe its just horses for courses and Kemp has no obvious match up so we've gone a bit taller with another interceptor with more experience.
Marchbank as an in and Kemp as an out makes this comment a bit worrying. Keml has more versatility than marchbank....and I'm a marchbank fan.
Marchbank as an in and Kemp as an out makes this comment a bit worrying. Keml has more versatility than marchbank....and I'm a marchbank fan.
I think marchy is a better stopper than Kemp whilst Kemp is more akin to mcgovern.
I think marchy is a better stopper than Kemp whilst Kemp is more akin to mcgovern.
“Maybe”
Or maybe perceived to be.
“Maybe”
Or maybe perceived to be.
No that's my opinion. I think marchbank is better one on one than Kemp, whilst Kemp is better zoning off.
Thats my opinion. You might disagree with it but thats that.
I think marchy is a better stopper than Kemp whilst Kemp is more akin to mcgovern.
Yes, for a certain type of player.
Kemp could play on a wider variety of players and do better on some players compared to marchbank.
If your contention is true and he was brought in for a specific player, fair enough....but with no exposed match form to go by, I wouldn't have risked it.
I can't help but think there is something we don't know about with Kemp. He seems to be first one dropped and it can't be just about form.
Yes, for a certain type of player.
Kemp could play on a wider variety of players and do better on some players compared to marchbank.
If your contention is true and he was brought in for a specific player, fair enough....but with no exposed match form to go by, I wouldn't have risked it.
I can't help but think there is something we don't know about with Kemp. He seems to be first one dropped and it can't be just about form.
I think you’re correct about him being the first dropped, however I’ve no idea why…