Carlton Supporters Club

The conspiracists are victims of correlation, positive reinforcement of a coincidence, who can't set their mind free of it and it has trapped them in misery!

Unfortunately, as everyday goes by the foolishness of those still peddling the HCQ and Ivermectin type claims grows greater and greater, almost exponentially. It's the little boy still holding his finger in the dyke to stop the flood, but the big people drained the dam long ago! The wall of vaccine derived immunity grows bigger and more resilient, every day at a staggering rate, a marvel of science and engineering.

The sky is no longer falling, the sun still shines, go outside and fell the warmth on your face, .............. but take a mask as you'll never know who you might stand next to!

I'll never understand why, as millions are saved by the day, that the naysayers misery still grows. Perhaps they did their dough on some dodgy imports!

The vaccines, and for that matter, the widespread use of lock downs, should have been the subject of extensive cost-benefit analysis.

You really don't get it, do you.

The vaccines, and for that matter, the widespread use of lock downs, should have been the subject of extensive cost-benefit analysis.

Perhaps you don't do that in science world, but in my finance/economics/business world they are front and centre.

Lockdowns - even though we knew better and had the fallout data, we never factored in the cost of the aftermath (other deaths. mental health issues, suicides, familial destruction, SME closures etc.).

Likewise with the vaccine - in Australia - where there never has been a  pandemic - why are we taking an experimental treatment (as it is still in Phase 3 testing) when we have ZERO idea of the short to medium to long term safety issues yet?

The bug will now become endemic, just like influenza, and fluctuate seasonally.

And you obviously never read the Great Barrington Declaration - which is simply the tried and tested pathway of dealing with a pandemic.

Somehow all the rules got changed with this far from novel virus. Why?

The $$$$.

Why did the CDC change the long standing method of reporting deaths in the US in March 2020? Without which, the number of CV19 deaths in the US would have been far, far less?

COVID-19 Data Collection, Comorbidity & Federal Law: A Historical Retrospective

Science, Public Health Policy, and The Law
Volume 2:4-22
October 12, 2020

This is what's funny with you shills - you say 'follow the science, listen to the experts'.

Then science from equally qualified, often more qualified, types gets put up and you go - yeah, nah, ignore that and start attacking the man....again a lot of parallels with the AGW scam.....

Cherry-picking one or two scientists with a contrary view does not overturn the overwhelming scientific consensus.

If you apply the same fiscal rules to HCQ or Ivermectin they are at least an order of magnitude more expensive than the vaccines and yet still functionally ineffective at treating or preventing COVID-19 infections! Even Trump knew that, which is why he offered $1.4T for the vaccine, a cheap buy!

Our local good outcome results from the efforts of health professionals and authorities, it isn't proof their efforts weren't needed, the argument you pose is a confusion of cause and effect. We don't have widespread infection because of the efforts of health professionals and authorities, not in spite of their efforts!

One hospitalisation costs more than hundreds or thousands of vaccinations, if the rumours are correct about Trump's hospitalisation costing north of $300,000, that money could vaccinate 10,000 people. Trump told the world all Americans were going to get access to his treatment!

Ironic that the Nordic countries went down the GBD path and got severely burnt, now they want a vaccine, but not the one they were offered. I heard a scientist talking about the GDB, which he said was fundamentally flawed because from the very beginning it ignores the 101 basics of virology, that mutations and variants can generally only occur in infected people, vaccines stop mutant variants from developing.

Q is dead, killed by 320 Million vaccinations and counting!

"Consensus" is not science.

Pick a hole in the argument if you can. That's fine by me.

Running with the my expert is better than your expert line is facile. In the extreme.

And there are a lot more than one or two scientists, and very eminent ones at that, with major questions.....they just don't get the air time that shills like Fauci get....

It’s more a matter of running with my thousands of experts rather than your one or two.  Your bloke could be right, but the odds of that are worse than the odds of winning Tattslotto.

Sweden did not get "severely burnt'. You're making up stuff on the fly now.

Gees David, that's your best?

Gees David, that's your best?

Here's the GBD.... but you'd rather back in Fauci and the likes of Soyboy Sutton? Terrific.

https://gbdeclaration.org/

A few of the original signatories. A few lightweights right?

Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations.

Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.

Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA

Dr. Andrius Kavaliunas, epidemiologist and assistant professor at Karolinska Institute, Sweden

Dr. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital Medical School, University of London, England

Dr. Anthony J Brookes, professor of genetics, University of Leicester, England

Dr. Annie Janvier, professor of pediatrics and clinical ethics, Université de Montréal and Sainte-Justine University Medical Centre, Canada
Dr. Ariel Munitz, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Boris Kotchoubey, Institute for Medical Psychology, University of Tübingen, Germany

Dr. Cody Meissner, professor of pediatrics, expert on vaccine development, efficacy, and safety. Tufts University School of Medicine, USA
Dr. David Katz, physician and president, True Health Initiative, and founder of the Yale University Prevention Research Center, USA

Dr. David Livermore, microbiologist, infectious disease epidemiologist and professor, University of East Anglia, England

Dr. Eitan Friedman, professor of medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Ellen Townsend, professor of psychology, head of the Self-Harm Research Group, University of Nottingham, England

Dr. Eyal Shahar, physician, epidemiologist and professor (emeritus) of public health, University of Arizona, USA
Dr. Florian Limbourg, physician and hypertension researcher, professor at Hannover Medical School, Germany

Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland
Dr. Gerhard Krönke, physician and professor of translational immunology, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany

Dr. Gesine Weckmann, professor of health education and prevention, Europäische Fachhochschule, Rostock, Germany

Dr. Günter Kampf, associate professor, Institute for Hygiene and Environmental Medicine, Greifswald University, Germany

Dr. Helen Colhoun, professor of medical informatics and epidemiology, and public health physician, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Dr. Jonas Ludvigsson, pediatrician, epidemiologist and professor at Karolinska Institute and senior physician at Örebro University Hospital, Sweden
Dr. Karol Sikora, physician, oncologist, and professor of medicine at the University of Buckingham, England

Dr. Laura Lazzeroni, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and of biomedical data science, Stanford University Medical School, USA
Dr. Lisa White, professor of modelling and epidemiology, Oxford University, England

Dr. Mario Recker, malaria researcher and associate professor, University of Exeter, England
Dr. Matthew Ratcliffe, professor of philosophy, specializing in philosophy of mental health, University of York, England

Dr. Matthew Strauss, critical care physician and assistant professor of medicine, Queen’s University, Canada
Dr. Michael Jackson, research fellow, School of Biological Sciences, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.

Dr. Mike Hulme, professor of human geography, University of Cambridge, England

Dr. Motti Gerlic, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Partha P. Majumder, professor and founder of the National Institute of Biomedical Genomics, Kalyani, India

Dr. Paul McKeigue, physician, disease modeler and professor of epidemiology and public health, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Rajiv Bhatia, physician, epidemiologist and public policy expert at the Veterans Administration, USA

Dr. Rodney Sturdivant, infectious disease scientist and associate professor of biostatistics, Baylor University, USA
Dr. Salmaan Keshavjee, professor of Global Health and Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School, USA
Dr. Simon Thornley, epidemiologist and biostatistician, University of Auckland, New Zealand
Dr. Simon Wood, biostatistician and professor, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Dr. Stephen Bremner,professor of medical statistics, University of Sussex, England

Dr. Sylvia Fogel, autism provider and psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital and instructor at Harvard Medical School, USA

Tom Nicholson, Associate in Research, Duke Center for International Development, Sanford School of Public Policy, Duke University, USA
Dr. Udi Qimron, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Ulrike Kämmerer, professor and expert in virology, immunology and cell biology, University of Würzburg, Germany

Dr. Uri Gavish, biomedical consultant, Israel

Dr. Yaz Gulnur Muradoglu, professor of finance, director of the Behavioural Finance Working Group, Queen Mary University of London, England

Forgive me because I cannot recall the exact numbers, but someone did the math on how many vaccinations we had to do per day to get whatever target was named for pater on the year.
We were doing less than 20% of the daily target needed to achieve the goals. No hope of achieving targets.

To get your head around what that means, after 5 days of vaccinations, we are 4 days behind. Repeat. Repeat. How do catch up from that??

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-12/denmark-norway-iceland-suspend-astrazeneca-covid-shots-vaccine/13240984

I think we should suspend use of the Astrazeneca vaccine until more testing is done, South Africa suspended it as well as these other countries mentioned and I'd like to see the results of the more testing these countries are doing before we give it out on mass. If you are on blood thinners or are a clot candidate you should not be given this vaccine and I think anyone over 50 needs to be given any vaccine by their own doctor who has their medical history at hand. Relying on Govt cheapie grad doctors in clinics dangerous IMO and we dont need to wildly rush into mass vaccinations without analyzing whats happening elsewhere in the world first. We are fortunate we can learn from others mistakes and need to take advantage of being later starters in the vaccination process.

EB I would have thought if you're on anticoagulants, you should safe from clots.

GTC...They dont reduce the effects to zero and if you are on the heavy duty variety like the old rat poison (warfarin) you find you are still able to get clots via interaction with other drugs, food and other underlying conditions.
Like I said only your own GP knows what you are on and as we know with a lot of older folk they take a cocktail of several drugs
which interact differently with each other. My mother in law took warferin, it was a nightmare to manage given her other conditions, dosage changed every week. You dont need a vaccine with possible clot effects adding to that, get one that is proven not to be a potential trigger ie maybe wait for the Novavax..
Are we actually checking people and working out what is the best vaccine to suit them or just randomly jabbing them with whats available?
Would you entertain a long haul flight after a couple of jabs of astrazeneca, you might not even know you are a potential clot candidate...?