Carlton Supporters Club

@DJC Unfortunately, we like to think scientists and doctors are empathic and heavily invested in the social good, but like any sector of society you can find some portion on a spectrum who prefer self over self-sacrifice. A percentage will always prefer strategies to preserve wealth and privilege over welfare, and fundamentally that is what GBD and others argue, the death of the downtrodden is a necessary sacrifice society must make to ensure the wealthy stay free and privileged. 1%ers, like so many other 1%ers.

You cannot logically debate with them, because they see the world selfishly, their actions belie the meaning of their words.

This is why they also commonly protest masks, not because they can't see the good it does for others, but because they can't bear the inconvenience it does to themselves.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. And no, those statements are a direct result of internal political pressures.....on Tegnell.

Gee David, get up to speed before you launch with that sort of stuff.

Read some of Gabriela Gomes' work.

The Brit Nic Lewis is onto it too.

https://www.nicholaslewis.org/why-herd-immunity-to-covid-19-is-reached-much-earlier-than-thought-update/

It's all about the heterogeneity of populations.

15% to 20% might even get the job done.....

As for the claim that Sweden has been an appalling failure, again rubbish.

The only ones saying  Sweden is a failure is the MSM - the data does not reflect that at all.

And of course we couldn't acknowledge that the time tested methods, universally deployed, up to the end of 2019, are the optimum path.

Even with Ebola, lockdowns were never recommended., let alone mandated.

Why compare only to small Nordic nations? Strawman stuff.

Against the bigger Euro nations, they have done very well indeed.

I've already put up data on age adjusted excess deaths.....and if you want more on the Nordic comparison.....

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3674138

It's all out there, most just don't do their homework but still feel happy to espouse vacuous claims.

Given an R0 value before lockdowns in most countries of between 2·5 to 3·5, we estimate the herd immunity required is about 60–72%. If the proportional vaccine efficacy, ε, is considered, the simple expression for pc becomes [1 – 1 / R0] / ε. If we assume ε is 0·8 (80%), then the herd immunity required becomes 75–90% for the defined range of R0 values. For lower efficacies, the entire population would have to be immunised. These overall estimates ignore heterogeneities that can make these figures lower or higher in specific locations.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32318-7/fulltext

Ah, so many truths in these comments, Spotted One. I would only make one correction and one elaboration.

Instead of the word, 'selfish', I would call it for what it is - narcissism.

The elaboration is with the psychology of the 'far right' type. They're fear based and terrified of losing control and their dangerous, lame and oft pathetic attempts at fighting everything is just to regain some sense of control... which they'll never succeed at whilst they are psychologically fear-based in the brain box.

Norway and Sweden are kindred countries in regards to ethnicity, administrative systems, socioeconomics, and public health care systems. Furthermore, both have reliable, stringent, timely, and comprehensive registration of deaths.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201116/Study-compares-deaths-in-Sweden-and-Norway-before-and-after-COVID-pandemic.aspx

A recent epidemiological study comparing Norway and Sweden:

Interestingly, the study postulates that Sweden's COVID-19 death toll may not be as bad as it appears because the excess mortality rate has not increased.  However, Sweden's mortality rate has been declining for several years and I think it's a case of more research required.

You're a patient man @DJC‍ , have you ever been an educator?

Yes LP, it's one of the roles I still do from time to time.  I find it very rewarding.

Yes LP, it's one of the roles I still do from time to time.  I find it very rewarding.

Champ.

Teachers, nurses, GPs, scientists, carers generally... to me, they're the real 'billionaires' of planet Earth. Not in $ terms but in terms of contribution and value.

Do you miss BH? Still lovin' it out west? Still got the creative facial hair design?

Personally I'd chuck coppers in that group, they deal with all the awful things in our world for two tenths of SFA.

30 cases of thromboembolic events have been reported among the five million people vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine in the European Economic Area.  One in every one thousand people in the UK will experience thromboembolic symptoms each year.  We need to find another 4,970 vaccinated folk with thromboembolic symptoms 

Champ.

Teachers, nurses, GPs, scientists, carers generally... to me, they're the real 'billionaires' of planet Earth. Not in $ terms but in terms of contribution and value.

Do you miss BH? Still lovin' it out west? Still got the creative facial hair design?