Carlton Supporters Club

No the officials wouldn't report COVID deaths using the same spin, that is your deliberate personal choice to publish a private perspective which clouds the reporting and not a reality of the statistics. I think what you did there either by accident or design is called muddying the waters!

The numbers are clear, unambiguous and definitive, many of the published opinions of them not so much!

No the skeptics would, and the official reported covid deaths in analysis might be a little bit each way.

There is no harm in allowing people to point out the hypocrisy when one point is argued for or against in either circumstance.

the numbers regarding cause of death are never clear, unambiguous and definitive.

You know what a huge tell is?  Our case numbers are rising, we have seen a nursing home resident test positive and yet she was asymptomatic at age 90.

That because they are fake, a image published by anti-vaxxer on FB or Instagram as shown by the URL.

://scontent.fmel12-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/191680922_1159971614485863_5925834372433939655_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=VT5pHvzOZL8AX93jIMY&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel12-1.fna&oh=1b297b2f49007a11aaec2c285704f678&oe=60DC5551
FBCDN.net = FaceBook Content Delivery Network

There are not and were not 210 deaths "Caused by getting the vaccines", no authority has published that or posted it.

The were 210 people who died sometime after getting a vaccination, but that poster is like saying there are 210 people who died after eating breakfast. It's not a causal relationship, it's correlation.

The image was on Facebook, but I went to the link on the pic and found the same numbers.

I'm not making an opinion either way, but I saw that pic, checked it out, came to this thread and you guys seems to be saying the same thing, so I linked it here.

The official TGA link does not "seem to be saying the same thing", the official TGA website has the same numbers but says the exact opposite of what the image tries to assert.

I can't comment on what website you viewed, you may have been looking at something spoofed to support the lying image!

I viewed the tga website, that's it.

There is no hypocrisy because the debate questioning the validity of the official public health plan is based on fake numbers and news stripped off FaceBook. The image above is a fraud, a lie perpetrated on the public by anti-vaxxers!

I wouldn't call millions of deaths globally, unambiguous, lacking clarity or without determinism! I also think specific investigations into a couple of hundred local deaths is quite definitive, and not something that can be trivially dismissed to suit a political perspective.
What is "the tell", can you explain what the link is between being asymptomatic and being an age? Personally, I don't see any good reason why a person cannot be asymptomatic at age 2 or age 120, it's just luck of the draw or perhaps luck of the genetics!
 

There is hypocrisies.

Anecdotally, the vaccine deaths are correlation not causation and the covid deaths are causation not correlation.

There is nowhere on the TGA website that states there were COVID Vaccine Deaths = 210

The TGA website is neither ambiguous or misleading, the assertion it reports 210 deaths resulting from COVID vaccination is simply wrong.

The TGA uses its adverse event reporting system to closely monitor reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination. During the early stages of the vaccine rollout in Australia and many other countries, deaths were reported following vaccination in older people living in aged care as this is where the vaccine rollout started. Many of these deaths were in frail elderly people and were coincidental with vaccination. This was confirmed following review by the TGA and medicine regulators in the UK, Europe and the US which found no specific safety concerns from use of the vaccines in older people.

However, it is possible in frail older people that even relatively mild and expected adverse reactions following the vaccination may contribute to deterioration of an underlying illness. For this reason, the Product Information documents for both the Pfizer and the AstraZeneca vaccines provide advice about vaccinating frail elderly people (over 85 years old) and warn that the potential benefits of vaccination must be weighed against the potential risks for each individual person.

To 23 May 2021, 3.6 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been given in Australia. In this period, the TGA has received 210 reports of deaths following immunisation – 109 have been reported for the Pfizer vaccine, 94 for the AstraZeneca vaccine and seven where the vaccine was not specified. Most of these reports (93%) were for people 65 years of age and over, and over three quarters were 75 years of age and over. Many of the deaths relate to elderly aged-care residents.

The TGA reviews all deaths reported after vaccination and monitors for safety signals. Part of our analysis includes comparing expected natural death rates to observed death rates following immunisation. To date, the observed number of deaths reported after vaccination is actually less than the expected number of deaths.

Each year in Australia, there are about 160,000 deaths, equating to 13,300 a month or 3050 each week. In the most recent reporting year (2018)(link is external) two-thirds of these deaths were in people aged 75 years and over.

Additionally, deaths from COVID-19 disease overwhelmingly occur in the elderly. While the 20-29 age group has had the highest number of cases of COVID-19 in Australia (followed by the 30-39 age group), 94 % (852 of 910) of COVID-19 deaths in Australia(link is external) have been in those aged 70 or over.

Apart from the single Australian case in which death was linked to TTS, COVID-19 vaccines have not been found to cause death. Given the benefits of vaccination with regard to preventing severe disease, hospitalisation and death from COVID-19, particularly in older age groups, immunisation is strongly encouraged as we head into the winter months.

So, it's true that 210 people died after immunisation but 209 of those would have died anyway.  In fact, the number of people who died following immunisation is lower than would be expected from that cohort in the normal course of events.

There are no "vaccine deaths", there is one single vaccine death, your premise is based on a lie or misdirection about a statistic!

Also, partial inversion of the logic leaves the argument non-sensical.

The fact that 210 people died is real, that they were part of 3.6 million that had been vaccinated is real, the assertion that they died as a result of vaccination is false and does not exist in the reports. In formal logic it's called a false premise, and Trump and his followers have made it an artform.

So, it's true that 210 people died after immunisation but 209 of those would have died anyway.

exactly my point

If you can massage the numbers to prove a point, you can do it on either side of the fence.

The hospitals are encouraged to not report vaccine problems and find other conditions
to use as the cause of death.
Underlying causes are being used to mask the truth with emphasis on the lying. If you want the true stats speak to the staff not the tga website or the hospital administrators.