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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3435 –
Interesting article in the SMH: The truth about what vaccines are achieving, from a country getting it right
The opening 2 paragraphs and the last paragraph are:
Quote
By now you’ve probably heard Scott Morrison’s argument, which goes something like this: Australia can’t yet talk about a post-pandemic future because we still don’t know whether vaccines guarantee a return to normality.

To illustrate the point, the Prime Minister regularly notes COVID-19 cases are climbing in Britain even though 85 per cent of all adults have been given one dose of a vaccine and 62 per cent the full two.

...

The Prime Minister is entitled to defend his strategy. But he also has an obligation to not cherry pick the facts about a vaccination program far more successful than his own.

It makes these points:
  • Infections were always going to increase as the UK came out of lockdown.
  • While infections are up, deaths are much lower than previously for comparable cases.
  • Of the 92,000 people infected with the Delta variant since Feb, only 7.8% involve those who were double vaccinated.
  • Nobody in England aged under 50 and double jabbed has died from the Delta variant this year.
  • It’s believed the vaccines have prevented about 7 million from being infected.
The fact that the double vaccinated are still being infected and some are dying is due to the vulnerability of older people:
Quote
David Spiegelhalter, the chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at Cambridge, and Anthony Masters, a statistical ambassador for the Royal Statistical Society, have a simple explanation for why so many fully vaccinated people died: the vaccines are not perfect and older people will always be at most risk.

“The risk of dying from COVID-19 is extraordinarily dependent on age: it halves for each six to seven year age gap,” they wrote in The Guardian. “This means that someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially takes on the risk of an unvaccinated person of around 50 – much lower, but still [it’s] not nothing, and so we can expect some deaths.”
This highlights the need to vaccinate the workers at aged care centres as well as the residents.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3436 –
Given the rising numbers interstate, and the number of people returning to Vic from red zones, it's very hard to see us avoiding another lockdown, but fingers crossed they will all do the right thing and quarantine.

 But I fear some of those returning were actually lockdown escapees who went interstate for the very reason of avoiding a lockdown, and now they are returning for much the same reason, so I think they are highly unlikely to quarantine.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3437 –
I think we need to get our testing requirements sorted before we worry too much about the rest.

Identifying a threat is probably a bit more important than mitigating against it.

i.e.  I just spoke to one of the stores men at our health service and he advised me he has had one covid test the whole way through.

This in itself isnt a massive issue, but when you consider he stocks the shelves in ICU, Theatres, and all manner of other locations, I think it would be reasonable enough to see all staff that work onsite in high risk locations tested once a fortnight.

I myself as an IT support worker have only been tested reactively (symptoms) like him, and that means that we have multiple workers who only get tested once symptomatic.

Is that a much bigger risk profile than anything else?  Id say so.  Sure we all wear masks and stuff, but we are more likely to super spread in an environment where things are dire than anyone else, and there is literally no requirement to test unless symptomatic or exposed.  Thats a bit silly.  We villify the people fleeing lockdowns, but lets face it, when you declare a lockdown starting from X tomorrow, then that in itself leaves too much scope for people to simply leave.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3438 –
People simply "escape" to avoid the ensuing 14 day isolations.  The states act with unchallenged impunity and then blame the Feds.  Chaos and dirt cheap politics follow.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3439 –
People escape because they’re selfish. If they’re infected, they can obtain treatment at their new location and they can wander around to their heart’s content until they need to be treated. That they might infect others is not their problem. They don’t care. That’s pretty apparent from the extent many have gone to in order to avoid quarantine.

People who aren’t selfish when they leave an area with a Covid outbreak would ensure they’re tested to ensure they aren’t infectious and isolate until they’re cleared. They’re not the ones we worry about. It’s the selfish ones who couldn’t give a *#$@ we worry about.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3440 –
Quote from: Mav on
People escape because they’re selfish. If they’re infected, they can obtain treatment at their new location and they can wander around to their heart’s content until they need to be treated. That they might infect others is not their problem. They don’t care. That’s pretty apparent from the extent many have gone to in order to avoid quarantine.

People who aren’t selfish when they leave an area with a Covid outbreak would ensure they’re tested to ensure they aren’t infectious and isolate until they’re cleared. They’re not the ones we worry about. It’s the selfish ones who couldn’t give a *#$@ we worry about.

I don't have an argument with any of that @Mav .... just like that Bunnings b**ch or others who think rules, let alone human decency don't apply to them. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3441 –
Quote from: Baggers on
Did I stuff up the link, Pauly? Wouldn't be surprised!

Such an important article from 'The Conversation' - the place I now go for truly objective, unbiased and intelligent reporting. Thank you, Pauly.


Thanks Baggers and Paul for the link.  A most interesting article.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3442 –
These imbecile polies again confusing everyone over AZ for under 60s and it takes soldier to come out and explain it properly (the guy in charge of rolling it out explained in on CH7 news).

ATAGI recommends mRNA Pfizer for under 60s BUT you can go to your GP and have a conversation about having AZ if you want.

The silly slag QLD CHO should be sacked immediately, every expert slamming her..
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3443 –
What an utter debacle.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3444 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on

The silly slag QLD CHO should be sacked immediately, every expert slamming her..

But that other fool "Premier Palace" just gave Young the plum job of QLD GG.  Both dumbarse hypocrites. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3445 –
Disappointing that abounding egos and petty politics and one-ups-manship blind so many pollies and health officers to why they're there - for the people of this country, you flogs.

Mind you, had ScoMo got his priorities right, and acted instead of yapping many, many months ago, Pfizer would have been far more widely administered and available and our population would have a far higher vaccination rate that the abysmal 5% at present... should be closer, with competent pollies, to 60+%!!!

Time for all Premiers, Feds and CHOs to be shoved in a room together, told they're not being let out until they have a united strategy for the benefit of all Aussies and all messages will be consistent with each other. Actually not that difficult but, as I mentioned above, when egos, ideologies and unhealthy competitiveness come into play - c0ckups abound and News Ltd opinion writers have a field day.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3446 –
Scomo trying to flog the cheaper AstraZ to the U40s because boxes of it are piling up everywhere because no wants it and he didn't order enough Pfizer.
Then wanting to lay the responsibility on GPs to make the call and go against the ATAGI recommendations. You can understand why GPs would be nervous.. If a young person dies on their watch it will be them wearing the responsibility even if Scomos indemnity holds up in court.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3447 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Scomo trying to flog the cheaper AstraZ to the U40s because boxes of it are piling up everywhere because no wants it and he didn't order enough Pfizer.
Then wanting to lay the responsibility on GPs to make the call and go against the ATAGI recommendations. You can understand why GPs would be nervous.. If a young person dies on their watch it will be them wearing the responsibility even if Scomos indemnity holds up in court.

GPs want indemnity and Scotty jumped the gun before announcing his decision ... and falsely implying that it was a national cabinet decision.

Surely, it’s not too hard to put appropriate measures in place and develop a national consensus to get people vaccinated ASAP. 
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3448 –
The hard data shows the real world risk is very very low, if the u40s don't vaccinate and get COVID-19, more of them will die from COVID-19 or suffer seriously debilitating long term health effects than the risk of sever complication from a vaccine side-effect.

If a million people get vaccinated, one might die from a directly attributed side-effect of any vaccine. If a million people do not get vaccinated, only about 30 have to get COVID-19 for the risk of one person dying to be equally the same as the one million who got vaccinations! The math puts the political and social media debate to shame, it is a non-contest, vaccines (any vaccine) will save lives. That doesn't even consider the fact that the Sars-CoV-2 is highly contagious, and the likelihood of more than just 30 unvaccinated individuals getting infected is very high. In the UK for every one million unvaccinated / vaccinated individuals they average at the moment about 70,000 infections, with that number set to rise under the new variant some are predicting a 300% increase. The only thing stopping the UK death rate soaring, in fact it is plummeting, is that they have a large percentage of the UK population already vaccinated with at least one dose.

Arguing against using the available vaccines is a bit like a passivist arguing not to attack because they will shoot us, when the enemy is Putin's KGB hit squad and they already have a gun cocked and pointed at your forehead! The anti-vaxxers are like the French in the war, don't shoot I surrender!

Cynics will argue those numbers do not apply here in Oz, but that is a symptom of our lockdowns not a symptom of the virus or vaccinations. At the moment we do not have 70,000 infections per-million because of the lockdowns. If we do lose control of the outbreak, we will have hundreds per million dying from COVID-19 illness.
The Force Awakens!
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3449 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Scomo trying to flog the cheaper AstraZ to the U40s because boxes of it are piling up everywhere because no wants it and he didn't order enough Pfizer.
They've ordered many times what they need, they can keep ordering as much as they like but they aren't being supplied, do not get sucked in by the media, Oz is not a priority for Pfizer we are on the long long delivery lead-time.

It's easy to shout wait for the Pfizer, but the reality is we'll have people waiting until they are dead or debilitated.
The Force Awakens!