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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4695
Often counting resources is quite a simplistic argument ignoring the real issues as @Thryleon‍ pointed out numerous times.

Even in the very report linked above;
Quote
Based on current workforce data from the 175 respondent ICUs, maximal surge would require an additional 4092 senior medical staff (345% above baseline staffing), and an additional 42 720 registered nursing staff would be required (365% above baseline staffing)
Who'd have thought that an ICU bed could not run itself! :o

The NSW public can just ask for a polite bend over and pull a 3x increase in skilled ICU staff out of the Premier's ar5e! ;D

Perhaps we can bring the extra staff from India or Indonesia, quick place an Ad on 457-Jobs-R-Us! ::)

The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4696
Flyboy, you might get lucky with the variants: maybe Ivermectin might finally work on one of them. Ivermectin fans will be like Powerball “investors” waiting with bated breath to see if their numbers come up this time.

By the way, here’s a good article about those pushing Ivermectin: People Are Eating Horse Paste To Fight COVID. These Doctors Are One Reason Why, HuffPost.

The article deals with the Front Line Covid Critical Care Alliance, a group of Doctors who desperately sought to repurpose existing medications to give them some weapons to battle Covid when nothing else was available. They had a big win with a combination of the steroid methylprednisolone and other drugs and supplements. They pressed on despite resistance in the medical community until studies confirmed the effectiveness of steroids in treating serious cases. But then they backed the wrong horse based on dodgy studies. While steroids operate as anti-inflammatories and there’s a plausible way they might help treat Covid, it’s much harder to see how Ivermectin, an anti-parasitic rather than anti-viral medication, would help.

As the article notes, initially the FLCCCA was trying to find a stopgap pending the arrival of effective vaccines but it seems the support from right wingers and anti-vaxxers has worked to stop the FLCCCA recommending vaccines.

The article quotes Dr Eric Osgood, a former member of the FLCCCA who quit because of the group’s failure to endorse vaccines:
Quote
“[Ivermectin] shouldn’t have been promoted as a vaccine alternative or a miracle cure,” he said. “People are drinking sheep drench! If that’s not a call to use your clout and influence to say, ‘Enough is enough! Get your shots!’ then I just don’t know.”

But even the remaining members of the FLCCCA are worried that the Delta variant is kicking Ivermectin’s arse:
Quote
And as the delta variant continues to infect the nation, even Kory admits that ivermectin (the human kind) is no match for it, tweeting on Aug. 9, “I have experienced and am getting reports from FLCCC Alliance members that Delta variant patients crashing into ICU’s ... are not showing responses to MATH+. We are demoralized and frightened. Early treatment is CRITICAL. Every household should take I-MASK+ upon first symptoms.”

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4697
Flyboy, you might get lucky with the variants: maybe Ivermectin might finally work on one of them. Ivermectin fans will be like Powerball “investors” waiting with bated breath to see if their numbers come up this time.

By the way, here’s a good article about those pushing Ivermectin: People Are Eating Horse Paste To Fight COVID. These Doctors Are One Reason Why, HuffPost.

The article deals with the Front Line Covid Critical Care Alliance, a group of Doctors who desperately sought to repurpose existing medications to give them some weapons to battle Covid when nothing else was available. They had a big win with a combination of the steroid methylprednisolone and other drugs and supplements. They pressed on despite resistance in the medical community until studies confirmed the effectiveness of steroids in treating serious cases. But then they backed the wrong horse based on dodgy studies. While steroids operate as anti-inflammatories and there’s a plausible way they might help treat Covid, it’s much harder to see how Ivermectin, an anti-parasitic rather than anti-viral medication, would help.

As the article notes, initially the FLCCCA was trying to find a stopgap pending the arrival of effective vaccines but it seems the support from right wingers and anti-vaxxers has worked to stop the FLCCCA recommending vaccines.

The article quotes Dr Eric Osgood, a former member of the FLCCCA who quit because of the group’s failure to endorse vaccines:
But even the remaining members of the FLCCCA are worried that the Delta variant is kicking Ivermectin’s arse:

You've never heard of Penicillin Mav? Used by humans and animals alike for many a decade.

Ivermectin - the sheep drench line is a great straw man line (well poor really).

Ivermectin has been on the WHO's most essential drug list since circa 1980.

You reckon it doesn't work - you base that on the spin you read on cereal packets or worse....

I look at the data - and the evidence is overwhelming with next to zero risk of any adverse side effects.

c19ivermectin.com

or Tess Lawrie's meta study undertake to the highest Cochrane standard.

https://bird-group.org/health-professionals-resources/

Do you really think these types (Lawrie, Kory, Meduri, Cadegiani, Malone etc.) are all just crazy nutters?

https://ivmmeta.com/

Why is your view better than theirs?

Do you back slappers here ever actually read any of this stuff or just run a 'fact check' search and grab a hold of that biased garbage?

Osgood? Looks like he got bought....

And there are many other viable treatments too for that matter.

Here's hoping you don't have Soyboy Sutton bed sheets.

Speaking of which, Slug Gate #2 resumes at 2.30pm.

https://t.co/YHHNQFi8xX?amp=1

Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4698
You've never heard of Penicillin Mav? Used by humans and animals alike for many a decade.
Why don't we just use Penicillin then, Flyboy? Could it be because it's an anti-bacterial rather than an anti-viral? We all know Penicillin doesn't work against the flu let alone Covid. Still, an antibacterial is closer to the mark than an anti-parasitic medication.

Osgood? Looks like he got bought....
^-^ Classic ...

I have no problem with you using Ivermectin. Have at it. You never know, maybe using horse dewormer will end up with you drawing admiring glances in the urinals at half-time in Carlton games.  Maybe you'll start showing the gentler personality of horses, although you'd probably need to stop taking that Tasmanian Devil medication first. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4699
Why don't we just use Penicillin then, Flyboy? Could it be because it's an anti-bacterial rather than an anti-viral? We all know Penicillin doesn't work against the flu let alone Covid. Still, an antibacterial is closer to the mark than an anti-parasitic medication.
 ^-^ Classic ...

I have no problem with you using Ivermectin. Have at it. You never know, maybe using horse dewormer will end up with you drawing admiring glances in the urinals at half-time in Carlton games.  Maybe you'll start showing the gentler personality of horses, although you'd probably need to stop taking that Tasmanian Devil medication first. 

I know you're not as dumb as your recent batch of comments.

The reference to Penicillin was by way of analogy. Duh.

Your smug comments re Ivermectin simply tells me you've been too lazy to read any of the literature - happy to run with the facile government/MSM narrative....

Re the current vaccines, it's hardly earth shattering logic to grasp that as the bugs change, a vaccine designed to subdue an original strain (which has faded away), might not work for the new variants - Delta etc. (think the flu).

Why are our Governments running with a 70%++ vaccine popn. threshold, when they now know (very well indeed) the efficacy and duration are extremely limited?

It's spin and nothing but fear porn.

Illogical. Ditto the whole vax passport caper given no reduction in transmission, no reduction in catching it.....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4700
Seems you missed the admission by one of the great advocates of Invermectin, Dr Kory, that the Delta variant isn't responding to Invermectin. He concedes he's demoralised & frightened. But that's only because he sees what's happening to patients. Unburdened by this sort of observation, your confidence isn't dented at all. 

The thing about vaccines is that they can be tweaked to respond to new variants or new vaccines can be formulated. But what can we do with Ivermectin? Is there an Ivermectin 2 or Ivermectin 3 waiting in the wings? Maybe we can mix it with bleach to clean the body of Covid ...

I'm looking forward to vaccine passports. I'll be able to go to the footy, pubs and restaurants again. No doubt there'll also be a vaccine passport for those who are protected by Ivermectin. It should give users access to free bales of hay, free gelding. and trips to the Middle East on live-cattle ships. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4701
Firstly, the risks of Ivermectin include oedema, tachycardia, myocarditis, pericarditis, seizures, coma and liver damage.

The recommended safe adult dose of Ivermectin for typical disease treatment scenarios is 12mg dose given at a +90 day interval, at that dose there are risks of significant side-effects including the oedema, tachycardia, myocarditis, pericarditis, seizures, coma and liver damage listed above.

Even at the normal dose, when you scale up to issue this medicine to millions of patients the rate of serious side effects is many many times the risk of side-effects from the Sars-CoV-2 vaccines.

FWIW, the normal Ivermectin dose is repeated at an interval of 3 to 12 months.

The India HCW Ivermectin study used the equivalent of 2 x 24mg doses of Ivermectin given just 3 days apart, a 400% higher dose in 1/10th the time, the increased risks of serious side-effects is enormous! Possibly killing as many people as untreated Sars-CoV-2 per million.

In the USA they are just starting to see people roll up to hospitals with serious disease resulting from the self-administration of Ivermectin, it's killing people or leaving them with long term disease as bad as or worse than if they had got COVID-19! On top of that, it offers them zero protection against Sars-CoV-2, so they are actually increasing the risks not reducing them.

Ignoring all those facts, the truth of the Ivermectin lie is in Sth America, where millions and millions of doses were issued at the hand of corrupt politicians and killed so many people from direct side effects, even ignoring that the Ivermectin did nothing to arrest the spread of Sars-CoV-2 and nothing to mitigate COVID-19 disease.

Now we have the Peru / Brazil Sars-CoV-2 variant emerging, probably aided by the false Ivermectin treatment regime.
The Force Awakens!

 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4702
The recommended safe dose of Ivermectin for typical disease treatment scenarios is 12mg dose given at a +90 day interval, at that dose there are risks of significant side-effects including oedema leading to tachycardia, myocarditis, pericarditis, coma and or liver damage.

Even at the normal dose the rate of serious side effects is many many times the risk of side-effects from the vaccines. Fwiw, the normal dose is repeated at an interval of 3 to 12 months.

The India HCW Ivermectin study used the equivalent of 2 x 24mg doses of Ivermectin given just 3 days apart, the increased risks of serious side-effects is enormous! Probably killing as many people as untreated Sars-CoV-2 per million.

[

BS LP.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/FLCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf

Ivermectin has a remarkable safety profile.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.30.20236570v1.full

You really do come across as a shill. You're just making stuff up again. Sadly.

Anyway, some common sense from one of the world's best biostatisticians....

https://rumble.com/vj8b4x-stanfords-dr.-john-ioannidis-destroys-the-covid-lockdown-narrative.html

Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4703
Seems you missed the admission by one of the great advocates of Invermectin, Dr Kory, that the Delta variant isn't responding to Invermectin. He concedes he's demoralised & frightened. But that's only because he sees what's happening to patients. Unburdened by this sort of observation, your confidence isn't dented at all. 

The thing about vaccines is that they can be tweaked to respond to new variants or new vaccines can be formulated. But what can we do with Ivermectin? Is there an Ivermectin 2 or Ivermectin 3 waiting in the wings? Maybe we can mix it with bleach to clean the body of Covid ...

I'm looking forward to vaccine passports. I'll be able to go to the footy, pubs and restaurants again. No doubt there'll also be a vaccine passport for those who are protected by Ivermectin. It should give users access to free bales of hay, free gelding. and trips to the Middle East on live-cattle ships. 

Feel free to post where Kory has said this....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4704
Ivermectin has a remarkable safety profile.
I suppose if you want to tweak the stats, and you kill all those people with Ivermectin, you can't have COVID-19 kill them as well, so win win for Merck shareholders! ;D

You obviously do not read what you link, or you have no comprehension of what you link because those studies support what I have posted.

The invitro anti-viral studies you linked were even 30% higher doses again than the India HCW trial and demonstrated no efficacy in patients.

The invitro trials did manage to kill some virus, as you would expect at that dose, I suppose the learning is that you can kill just about anything with anything given you administer enough of something. Probably take out a few livers and lungs as well! :o
My God, I've just realised what that means ................... Bring on the Beers! ;)

PS; Alcoholism is up during lockdown, so a double benefit of lockdown is increasing the beers and killing virus while restricting it's spread! Another win win! ;D
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4705
Just in case you missed it the first time, Flyboy:
Quote
And as the delta variant continues to infect the nation, even Kory admits that ivermectin (the human kind) is no match for it, tweeting on Aug. 9, “I have experienced and am getting reports from FLCCC Alliance members that Delta variant patients crashing into ICU’s ... are not showing responses to MATH+. We are demoralized and frightened. Early treatment is CRITICAL. Every household should take I-MASK+ upon first symptoms.”
People Are Eating Horse Paste To Fight COVID. These Doctors Are One Reason Why, HuffPost.

Yeah, I know, he's been bought ...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4706
The safety profile of a drug is a function of the number of patients treated, for something used so sparingly in humans Ivermectin at it's normal dose is quite safe, about as deadly as general anaesthesia, but even general anaesthesia is far deadly than the vaccines per million patients.

The arguments for Ivermectin have no basis in fact or math, it's just become a pandemic meme.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4707
It's like winning Tattslotto when stories like this surface at an appropriate moment?
Quote
A Sydney COVID-19 patient has been treated in hospital for an overdose of the drug ivermectin and other underground “cures” ordered online.

The person is now recovering at home after presenting to Westmead Hospital’s emergency department with vomiting and diarrhoea caused by the drug, according to the Western Sydney Local Health district.

“Thankfully they didn’t develop severe toxicity, but it didn’t help their COVID either,” Westmead Hospital toxicologist Associate Professor Naren Gunja said.
We shouldn't really be surprised though, it's probably inevitable!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4708
Meanwhile the average punter is trapped at home,  no job,  bills racking up,  while trapped in an endless loop of lock down with the end  some nebulous date in the future.  Couldn't even give us the decency of giving us a date.  Over it. Give us something, anything
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4709
Meanwhile the average punter is trapped at home,  no job,  bills racking up,  while trapped in an endless loop of lock down with the end  some nebulous date in the future.  Couldn't even give us the decency of giving us a date.  Over it. Give us something, anything
I understand the frustration.

But when people ask that question it suggests they think the authorities know the answer, which contradicts all the accusations like "The government / health authorities don't know what they are doing!"

If they don't know what they are doing, it means they do not know the answer, so in effect that complaint is a request to be deceived!
The Force Awakens!