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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5835 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
How many people has Pfizer/Moderna actually killed in Aus?..we have had two family members with issues, both males in their early 30's, one had myocarditis from Pfizer  and was taken to hospital for a 2 day stay and the other had Moderna which brought him out in lumps on his collarbone which were Lipoma's caused by a reaction to the vaccine, he also had a bad rash around the area. Sputnik has been a disaster in Russia, no one wants it, we have friends there who live down south on the Black sea coast and take up is about 30%, death rate is a lot higher than reported too, everyone wants to get across to Turkey to get Pfizer given the mistrust of the local product.
The distrust in Sputnik and Sinovax is that they don't deliver resistance, it's not driven by the idea that Pfizer is safer but that it does the job!

If Pfizer is killing less as a percentage it was primarily due to knowledge about how to treat the side-effects, they still don't have the why. AZ was statistically already as safe as Pfizer, and now they have the why they can treat the side-effects it should become even safer!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5836 –
How many people has pfizer killed in Australia?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5837 –
Quote from: LP on
The distrust in Sputnik and Sinovax is that they don't deliver resistance, it's not driven by the idea that Pfizer is safer but that it does the job!

If Pfizer is killing less as a percentage it was primarily due to knowledge about how to treat the side-effects, they still don't have the why. AZ was statistically already as safe as Pfizer, and now they have the why they can treat the side-effects it should become even safer!
The distrust in Sputnik is that the locals don't trust the Government and what's in the vaccine. I have read it isn't as effective but that's not the main reason take up is poor.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5838 –
Quote from: LP on
The nutters are space invading unmasked anti-vaxing gob5h!tes with zero respect for those around them.

Plenty of us have talked through the relative risks of infection and transmission, myself included!

Freedom comes at a price, always has always will, it's the anti-vaxers that want the free lunch in this case, they aren't the defenders of freedom, they limit the rest of us for their own selfish beliefs! The 2c social media logic they peddle about defending freedom is completely backwards!

LP, the point was Stop spreading misinformation, and this is directed to EVERYONE - this has gone on too long. It should have been pulled up long ago and has not been. Anti-mask wearing, anti-vaxxers aside, the information being perpetuated is simply false and needs to be called out as such. Anyone CAN be a carrier of Covid 'vaccinated' or not.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5839 –
Quote from: spf on
LP, the point was Stop spreading misinformation, and this is directed to EVERYONE - this has gone on too long. It should have been pulled up long ago and has not been. Anti-mask wearing, anti-vaxxers aside, the information being perpetuated is simply false and needs to be called out as such. Anyone CAN be a carrier of Covid 'vaccinated' or not.

Completely agree @spf

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5840 –
Quote from: spf on
LP, the point was Stop spreading misinformation, and this is directed to EVERYONE - this has gone on too long. It should have been pulled up long ago and has not been. Anti-mask wearing, anti-vaxxers aside, the information being perpetuated is simply false and needs to be called out as such. Anyone CAN be a carrier of Covid 'vaccinated' or not.

Yes, anyone can be be a carrier but the probability of a vaccinated person being a carrier is significantly lower than a non-vaccinated person.

According to a study published in the Lancet, breakthrough infections may occur in less than 30% of the vaccinated population (all age groups, ethnicity, etc). If you’re not infected, you can’t be a carrier.

The other major finding from that study is that only 10% of vaccinated folk, if infected, will develop serious symptoms.

If you’re not vaccinated, there is a very high probability that you will become infected and pass COVID on to others, and particularly the under 12s who can’t be vaccinated yet.

We’re around 90% vaccinated in my part of the world.  We still have folk demanding the right to their freedom to refuse vaccination but they’re few and far between.  QR codes, mask discipline and vaccination certificates are the norm and I’m pretty confident that, in the unlikely event that I will come into contact with someone with COVID, my chances of avoiding infection are pretty good.

“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5841 –
I kind of see the point being made.
I think it's the talk in "absolutes" that some folk have an issue with.

"Have the vaccine you're safe as houses."
"Don't have it and you're f**ked."

It's not that straight forward
Different folk will respond in different ways and there will be some unvaccinated with nothing more than a sniffle, and some double vaccinated who will die.
The reality is even amongst the unvaccinated the symptoms will not be severe in most cases.
That's what were were told before the vaccines.
In most cases it's not severe and age and underlying conditions are a major factor.
But unvaccinated you're more likely to get a bad dose and spread it easier.

As DJC points out what the vaccine does for most people is that it reduces the impact of covid.
That's good enough for me to go with it...and there is the added incentive that my actions may prevent me from spreading it because if I catch it I will have it in a reduced form.

It's not so much misleading information.
It's more not emphasising (by omission) that the vaccine is not a cure-all it's just a rather significant barrier.

 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5842 –
I wonder whether this sort of argument ever happened in the military.
General Smith: Armour on tanks protects tank and crew from shells from opposing tanks and artillery.
General Jones: But armoured tanks are still destroyed by opposing tanks or artillery, so there's no point having armour. Why not save money and allow tanks to strip their armour to make them faster and more agile?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5843 –
Quote from: Mav on
The AFL couldn't afford to have the sort of stuff happening right now in the NFL. First, the Las Vegas Raiders coach bites the dust due to racist and other -ist emails which also involved a Washington FC official, and just recently Henry Ruggs III was "released" by the Las Vegas Raiders after killing a woman in a massive crash after veering into the rear of her car while travelling at 250 kmh with a BAC of 0.16%. The NFL must be envious the AFL only has to deal with Jordan De Goey. 

What an idiot Rodgers is. Doesn't he know that Ivermectin is the silver bullet?
https://www.nfl.com/news/aaron-rodgers-explains-decision-to-not-get-covid-19-vaccination-in-first-comment
Quote
After learning he had contracted the virus, the 37-year-old said he consulted with podcast host Joe Rogan on treatments.

"I've been taking monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, zinc, vitamin C and D, HCQ (Hydroxychloroquine) … and I feel pretty incredible," Rodgers said.
This man ain't no idjit.





...and might i say as a Vikings fan.....F*** the packers and Aaron Rodgers.
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5844 –
Wow, Aaron Rodgers is channelling Nixon who once declared "I am not a crook!" (spoiler alert, yes he was).

Aaron Rodgers has declared "not an anti-vax flat earther" (spoiler alert, it looks as though he is).

Aaron Rodgers Gives Wild Anti-Vaccine Interview After Catching COVID-19, Huffpost.

And we come full circle: he says he's taking Covid treatment advice from Joe Rogan, who also caught Covid and is an advocate of Ivermectin.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5845 –
Quote from: Mav on
Wow, Aaron Rodgers is channelling Nixon who once declared "I am not a crook!" (spoiler alert, yes he was).

Aaron Rodgers has declared "not an anti-vax flat earther" (spoiler alert, it looks as though he is).

Aaron Rodgers Gives Wild Anti-Vaccine Interview After Catching COVID-19, Huffpost.

And we come full circle: he says he's taking Covid treatment advice from Joe Rogan, who also caught Covid and is an advocate of Ivermectin.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5846 –
Yep, got me. I'd say great minds think alike, but you, me, or both of us might be offended by that!   :P

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5847 –
Testing positive is not the same as being infectious, this is where the general population's understanding of catching and spreading COVID goes wrong,

You can test positive but have a very low viral load, so as such the chance you will transmit it become very low. That is primarily why some people are declared as low risk after being found positive. Your chance of catching Sars-CoV-2 depends on the amount of virus you get exposed to. It's true if you are unlucky, very unlucky, you could catch it from the one single virus but the chances are very low less than winning tattslotto.

People with vaccination are likely to have a very low viral load if positive, and as such they are much less likely to transmit.

@spf‍ This is why being vaccinated matters, and it is not disinformation or misinformation, it is the reason there is a huge difference between the risk of spread through unvaccinated versus the vaccinated positive cases.

Some studies have found vaccinated positives cases have an average viral load three orders of magnitude lower than unvaccinated cases, that is 1000x lower! But none of the studies are big enough to be definitive, although they are consistent with the expectations of the virologists.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5848 –
Yep, this is the problem with combatting disinformation. If you don't make the message simple enough to put on a bumper sticker, then no one will bother to listen to the message (& even if they do, the qualifications will be enough to turn them off). The misinformation and disinformation on social media is so persuasive as the messages are so strong and unqualified: Vaccines don't work! Vaccines will kill you! Ivermectin is better than vaccines!

But of course as soon as the message is crafted for the social media audience, the anti-vaxxers will take advantage of the fact the message isn't nuanced. And we have the preposterous idea that if double-vaccinated people can still catch Covid, there's no real difference between them and unvaccinated people.

It reminds me of an election campaign in which Barry Jones had the education portfolio and had produced a large blackboard on which he had a flow chart of various policy proposals and their effects. It was classic Barry Jones as he was a noted egghead (and he came to prominence as a quiz champion in Pick a Box). But of course such a complex presentation was just asking for ridicule and the Liberals were happy to oblige.   

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5849 –
How do you craft it Mav?
We're dealing with a vast range of ideas, experiences and intellectual capacity.
But we may be selling the Australian population a bit short.
Realistically , the message is getting through, and vaccination rates are sky high.

The main message is get vaccinated for the protection of yourself and others.
Good message.

Do we not mention that you can still get covid, you can still pass it on and still maybe get very sick.
That's important to know, otherwise the other strategies like mask wearing, check ins, social distancing are compromised.