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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5880 –
Quote from: Mantis on
LP. The point I am trying to make is that we the people have the rights of full disclosure. We have the rights to hear what happens in the real world including our country and state. News cane announced as a coincidence and people be told it is not proven fact that side effects are a result that contributes to serious health issues. Let us not paint over a potential issue like a lick of paint on a mould infested wall in a house to get a better sale result by hiding what might be a damp issue which could cause serious respiratory issues to a buyer. The media should be held accountable to present information to the people. The government should not hold them to ransom to keep their trap shut. We the people pay taxes, yes? These taxes pay politicians in some shape or form, yes? We elect people into power, yes? We do so so that they have a chance to voice what the people need and want in parliament, yes? They represent us, the people, yes? I might have agreement on one or two of these above.

Now more importantly, the government is doing what they feel is required by the best advice they find to protect the health and well-being of the people they represent, yes? They state this at state and federal levels, yes? So it is apparent that everything is working fine by the greater community. However if something should appear to be a slight concern to the health of the constituents that the government represent, should it be investigated? No, because it is a known side effect to a vaccine. Should at an absolute minimal level be looked at that with multiple vaccines available, that the age group, gender type, or any other reason be a reason to reconsider an alternative vaccine? No because they are trying to achieve the same result? To get more than 80% of the population fully vaccinated? Hang on a second and back the truck up. Now I am getting p1ssed off and excuse my very fluent French. Is the percentage of fully vaccinated people more important than what it may do if somehow a certain vaccine suits age groups better? No just take the jab as 40,000 people have been tested and these are the statistics. Wait a moment. We are nor operating in the real world. We are vaccinating millions of people in our state. The trend appears to vary from what initial test may have shown. Maybe we should offer an alternative and monitor those with any side effects and offer them our full support. No because the government is not responsible for side effects of any medical process.

Now, my blood pressure is rising. You political blood sucking leeches are really about to do my f@cking head in. I like many the people of Victoria have endured lockdowns. 5km for your place of residence as they state. I am sure as a dumb f@ck that is interperatated as stay home. Unless you meet 5 needs to do so. Out of this boundary distance. To buy food. Sure enough this old bastard needs to eat and I can buy food very close to my sh1t hole I live in. Medicine from a chemist. Fine, like vitamin pills or ventolin as there is nothing of interest there.  Kathy is a very hot young girl, with such a polite attitude that she could sell tampons and I would buy them just because she might get a commission for the sale. Back off guys I saw her first. I mean she is my daughters age and has such a nice personality that it is impossible to not buy more than you need just to talk to such a pleasant person.

Care giving. I really have no person who really cares for me and no person who needs my care. Then there is work. This is one I will come back to soon. I like many required a permit to work. Why? The reason was that it was 27km away from my sh1t hole (place of residence). Last but not least, to go to a doctor or be tested for the covid 19. I never see doctors because I haven’t had a sick day in almost 4 years and 6 months. 2 of those years during the peak of the virus. The virus that spreads at light speed as Dan Andrews claimed. It is contagious so please ignore that comment. So I followed all the rules, including that mask. The one that makes asthmatic people feel like they are suffocating. Hang on a second. That is me. Hey, I am someone in this story. So I have followed all rules and tried to do the 1.5m distancing everywhere I go for a long, long time.

Then it happened. I was told it was my choice. Jab or job. Get a jab or lose your job. Really? I have paid my taxes that pay those that I elected into power to RULE my life. Those that are there to represent my views, opinions and hear my voice. Like the old system of a shop steward of a company representing my union. The union I paid my hard earn dollars for. So why do I pay taxes? To have someone decided what is best for my life? To decide what will be best for my future? Have I not paid enough taxes in my life? Have I not paid for the wages of those I have elected? When will they finally listen to the constituents and remember that they represent the people. Be the voice of those that put them into power. Those that can vote another person to sit in their seat next time elections take place. I took the jab by the way, so don’t hate me as an anti anything or a conspiracy theorist. I need to eat. I need to live. So does my dog who I love to bits. He has been my rock over the last 8 months. More than family or friends. This whole issue is dividing family and friends. Dividing people that is causing turmoil and hate because people have different views. Separations in relationships. Hate between family members. Problems in the workplace. It is f@cked and don’t take my word for it.

Just look at it from perspective. You elected people into government. No crystal ball there to know what would happen. Would any other candidate have done better? Who knows. Just promise me one thing in life. Love those that matter. Stand by your opinion even if if might be wrong. Voice your opinion. Don’t be rude about it but don’t hesitate to be heard. I hear it is your given right. Just don’t get locked up in jail. I hear it isn’t a great place to sleep. On a personal note it isn’t, but I will always make you feel welcome.

Sorry but I can’t comment on the Pharma companies. Kickback theories will get me in trouble. Sorry LP.

Mate, you have articulated so well what I have not been able to.

Who polices the policemen?

Thats the tricky part.  These guys are shooting from the hip and making laws.  I have stated a few times, that the government really needs to take people with them on this journey.

Because I speak to a few medical professionals, I do hear things that the average person does not.  From an ICU nurse, those people with COVID in our ICU's are the sickest people they have seen in 30 years of nursing.

Normally, you would go from a 7 day stint, to one day on the ward, and through rehab, discharge, and reviews via outpatients.

Instead, we have 3 weeks on machines which only save the person 50 percent of the time.

This isnt a comorbidity thing.  It seems a bit random (which is in itself scary).

Like you, I have complied, but to think that we have been given any real choices here is an illusion.  The governments have caused a few problems themselves.  Through  enforcing playground lockdowns, construction lockdowns, etc, when it likely didnt need to, and it became a hit them where it hurts move, rather than a public health move.

There are lots of problems with the pandemic handling from a governance perspective, but I do think they were on a hiding to nothing, and not much else would be different.

Beyond that, I know of what was a healthy 30+ year old, who has currently had myocarditis as a consequence of being vaccinated.  Not allowed to drive, or exercise.


The hardest part of all of this, is that we dont get a do over, without vaccination to see how we would have been effected.  The majority of our people checking in with patients in community pathways are going to be fine, irrespective of whether they are covid positive. 

Has the solution caused as many issues as the virus?  Difficult to quantify, but those who got their vaccine, and are currently in not a good way, will think so.

One thing that I keep coming back to, is how is it, that we get so impacted here in victoria, and yet somehow the rest of Aus is insulated from this?  They all had the chance for it to flare up, and yet it didnt.  even NSW, I am hearing and seeing their testing numbers, and I have stated this before, that we are not testing people in the right spots well enough, or often enough.  I work at multiple health services, and have only had to produce a negative test when symptomatic to return to work.  Ive been tested twice in almost 2 years now.

Meanwhile in NSW, you must produce a negative test to continue working.   How frequently?  Im not sure, but have a look at the variance in our testing numbers. 

To go with this, I had an Arthroscope on my knee back in August.  Had an overnight stay at a private hospital.  At the time, our covid numbers were low, and despite me working in a health service, there was absolutely 0 covid protocol to follow on day of procedure and overnight stay to follow aside from "are you symptomatic?".

On March 11 of 2020, I returned from Perth to Melbourne on a flight that had come from Asia via Perth to Melbourne.  On the 9th, I had taken a day trip to Rottnest Island, on a packed ferry full of overseas travellers.  The first case on our shores was Jan 25th for anyone who has been paying attention.  I returned to work on the 12th, went to the gym that night, and then developed a sinus infection on the 13th, and had 2 days of sick leave, and didnt meet the criteria for testing at that time, even though I had setup equipment in the covid testing clinic at a Hospital on the 12th.  I had to gown up and go in to do this.

I dont say this to discourage anything.   Just sharing my story.


"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5881 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Has the solution caused as many issues as the virus?  Difficult to quantify, but those who got their vaccine, and are currently in not a good way, will think so.
Statistically that is not hard to quantify at all, the detrimental effects of COVID are orders of magnitude worse than the detrimental effects of the vaccines.

We are just learning now of the impacts of vaccine denial and scaremongering, tragically exposed in the rising numbers of young pregnant women rolling up to hospital COVID infected, and suffering long term effects to themselves and their babies because they have been frightened out of vaccination by social media scaremongering bastards!

The effects are not asymmetric, the scaremongers and their adjutants might not be adversely affected but that doesn't mean others won't. It seems otherwise healthy pregnant women are potentially the most vulnerable group, because not only are they at greater risk due to decreased immune response during pregnancy, they are responding for two or more!

So people trying to convince me the effects of lockdown and mandates has a huge detrimental effect on their wellbeing are doomed to fail, they aren't even in the same category as those who genuinely need our attention, care and respect. I'll always from an opinion in favour and bias towards a young mum who has been negatively impacted by Instagram, Twitter, FB and other Doomscrolling activities ahead of some privileged adult male complaining about a tough life!

Like pregnant women there will be thousands of similar genuine health care cases that sit well ahead of every anti-lockdown protestor, Dan hater and mask denier!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5882 –
MAV. Very interesting reading. I rarely speak unless I have a serious passion about a topic and what you say has another interesting subject matter for me to bring up. I suddenly feel like I might become the noisy little blue arse fly that gets trapped between your bedroom window and the drapes at night. Bzzzzzz bouncing against the glass until you have had enough that you waste an entire can of Mortein spray to shut the bugger up to get some sleep. Back to two topics now. I read a few times some small concerns about particular vaccines that have been changed in certain countries based on what is being noticed in the real world. Not from previous tests but more so what government bodies have seen as tends after they expose the use on the population of the people. I think Moderna was one that was questioned for certain people and was not recommended for continuous use in certain people. May it be age or what particular reasons. I think age appears to be one of the reasons we have different vaccines. I assume they use different ways to do the spike protein process to have the human body build antibodies to help deal with SARS type natural immunity. If the government bodies of certain countries have changed how they advise immunisation then this is a start to better manage potential health implications to their communities. It must be case that under initial advisory steps are taken by manufacturers of medications and test performed to consider them safe to begin with. However things change in the real world and it is the duty of care for the government to monitor and make changes accordingly. Don’t rush to get the masses vaccinated as a form of a race to see which country leads the statistics on percentage of fully vaccinated people. This isn’t AFL, NFL, FIFA grand final, super bowl, World Cup etc bragging rights.

You are attempting to protect the community and serve your people and need to do it with some form of due diligence. Think once, twice and three times before you act and put systems in place. The old school rule of risk assessment and monitor the results regularly. Make changes as required. Put a stop to a program temporarily while further risk management gives you better confidence to help protect everyone. Is it a stupid method of better health and well-being of all? Maybe? Real life statistics and implementation of real risk management.

Onto my new dilemma. This blue arse fly will do your head in MAV, so I apologise in advance. Let me state you own a cafe in the city of Melbourne. You probably don’t but for the exercise let us say you do. As we get further along with the vaccinated population of 80% plus fully dosed people, you will need to have a certain allowed number of patrons come to consume food and beverages at your cafe by the end of this year 2021. Some indoor and some outside if the premises allow to do so. Assuming a 4 square metre rule, maybe 2 square metre rule. Maybe 1.5m social distancing. There will be some form of limitations. Without being certain we will still have something in place to avoid large numbers in an area to avoid large spread of covid. Yes? Sounds feasible. Not silly but feasible and helping the people to avoid community transmission. I might come to your cafe as I would like to help small business and would appreciate you allowing me to make a booking. With further benefits I may be allowed to line up on the pavement and wait for my seat when it is available. Oops, small problem potential as it might have people not follow a 1.5m distancing gap and it might be a tiny issue at worst. Maybe these distance issues may be lifted by then. Maybe yes, or no. No certainty yet. I for some reason decided not to come to your cafe Mav. I again apologise as I have made another appointment. May we leave your cafe for 2022. I booked tickets in advance for the Boxing Day test match day one. Dan has allowed 80,000 to possible talks of 85,000 people. I am over the moon. Wow. How exciting. I can stand shoulder to shoulder for a while before the gates open. Great. Just lovely. Then I get to sit next to so many sweaty, smelly, and potentially infected people from around 10am in the morning and ending around 6pm in the afternoon. Eight hours of no gap between myself and the sweaty bastards around me. Not including the time it took me to enter the gates to get into the stadium. These are very large numbers. Probably not including staff supplying food and drinks. Security staff. Police and quite possibly more. Probably similar to Melbourne Cup. As you have mentioned. Does money rise above the needs for safety and our potential health? Is there something I don’t see or understand? Just asking the question. I don’t see consistency. The Cup had 10,000 people allowed to attend. Then we move towards 80,000 plus. Will there be restrictions on small businesses that doesn’t follow the same theme? Don’t play us for fools if this becomes the case. We do have the mental capacity to see through things where money might be a driving force for settings. I think we do if this becomes the case. Blue arse fly over and out.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5883 –
Quote from: LP on
Statistically that is not hard to quantify at all, the detrimental effects of COVID are orders of magnitude worse than the detrimental effects of the vaccines.

We are just learning now of the impacts of vaccine denial and scaremongering, tragically exposed in the rising numbers of young pregnant women rolling up to hospital COVID infected, and suffering long term effects to themselves and their babies because they have been frightened out of vaccination by social media scaremongering bastards!

The effects are not asymmetric, the scaremongers and their adjutants might not be adversely affected but that doesn't mean others won't. It seems otherwise healthy pregnant women are potentially the most vulnerable group, because not only are they at greater risk due to decreased immune response during pregnancy, they are responding for two or more!

So people trying to convince me the effects of lockdown and mandates has a huge detrimental effect on their wellbeing are doomed to fail, they aren't even in the same category as those who genuinely need our attention, care and respect. I'll always from an opinion in favour and bias towards a young mum who has been negatively impacted by Instagram, Twitter, FB and other Doomscrolling activities ahead of some privileged adult male complaining about a tough life!

Like pregnant women there will be thousands of similar genuine health care cases that sit well ahead of every anti-lockdown protestor, Dan hater and mask denier!

The NUM from our Emergency department out here disagrees with you.

The statistics that are quoted, need to be truly accurate, but if it doesnt suit the stategy what incentive is there for everything to be released accurately?  Whom polices the policemen?

The answer:  Themselves.  They are a law unto themselves, accountability is not a strong suit, its finger pointing, deflection, and numbers on a chalkboard.

You are way too dismissive of voices of true dissent, and are too busy looking at the conspiracy theorists, and lumping everyone into one category.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5884 –
Quote from: LP on
@Mantis‍ I understand the stress the lockdowns and mandates have caused and I don't question those effects on individuals, they are what they are as @Mav‍ has pointed out. But it's clear to me from what you have written is that some of your concerns seem to far outweigh the risks, perhaps it is a miscalculation of the the risk of one action versus the risk of another action or even a miscalculation of the risk of inaction.

In the era of a pandemic, doing nothing is not safe, doing nothing kills more people than doing something, so those who have to make a decision have no choice, be they politicians or health officials. We can all debate what to do, what is good what is bad, what might have been better, but doing nothing is never an option!

Just can’t give an argument to this. Doing nothing is just pure ignorance. Cannot be anything but behind this exact point. Maybe a better monitoring system and risk assessment plan. To adapt to prevention while allowing an ability to change. Multiple vaccines available. Change things if something appears to be a better option. Keep risks as low as possible. It might already exist. I hope so and hope they continue to improve the vaccine process. I took Astra by the way but only through research on potential effects. It appeared to give me less risk.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5885 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
The NUM from our Emergency department out here disagrees with you.
No, I'd assert the numbers agree perfectly with the statistics.

"We" are not some local special case, the numbers are global and universally applicable, the statistics expose that truth about infections versus vaccines and it is unequivocal. The numbers are infinitely more accurate than any subjective opinion or first-hand experience, experience which by relative scale to the global statistic is almost irrelevant!

It's laughable that individual persons try to paint themselves, their circumstance or location as special or privileged in the perspective of global cases!

We are not lucky, we are not special, we are not different, the pandemic follows the same rules here that it follows in New Delhi, London, Chile, Zimbabwe or Cairo!

PS; There are plenty policing the statistics, it is the easiest thing to police, the first ledgers to appear in this global pandemic were independent 3rd party statistics, and the idea that the statistics lie or have been deliberately politically misrepresented when they fail to present a preferred narrative is if anything the real global conspiracy. The statistics are so damming for the anti-vax and anti-mask narrative, the deniers tried their very best to adulterate free and open voluntary databases.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5886 –
Quote from: LP on
No, I'd assert the numbers agree perfectly with the statistics.

"We" are not some local special case, the numbers are global and universally applicable, the statistics expose that truth about infections versus vaccines and it is unequivocal. The numbers are infinitely more accurate than any subjective opinion or first-hand experience, experience which by relative scale to the global statistic is almost irrelevant!

It's laughable that individual persons try to paint themselves, their circumstance or location as special or privileged in the perspective of global cases!

We are not lucky, we are not special, we are not different, the pandemic follows the same rules here that it follows in New Delhi, London, Chile, Zimbabwe or Cairo!

PS; There are plenty policing the statistics, it is the easiest thing to police, the first ledgers to appear in this global pandemic were independent 3rd party statistics, and the idea that the statistics lie or have been deliberately politically misrepresented when they fail to present a preferred narrative is if anything the real global conspiracy. The statistics are so damming for the anti-vax and anti-mask narrative, the deniers tried their very best to adulterate free and open voluntary databases.

Look, I and EB1, both have sources in Emergency departments seeing an increase in presentations of Myocarditis in an age group that ordinarily wouldnt see them.

I am not latching onto this as anything but a question mark.  You however, disimiss it far too easily by explaining it away.  All it means is that you are believing everything you are being told.  Thats fine.  It is after all how it works, but my question is, how can we believe all we are told, when we are not being told everything?

Knowing how statistical analysis works, is anyone even looking at that data?  Dont just dismiss it, you know what I am saying.  Open your mind to the idea, that perhaps the vaccine route, is a lesser of two evils, one we might not have had to follow if we were simply more open to the idea, that we need to keep COVID out.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5887 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Look, I and EB1, both have sources in Emergency departments seeing an increase in presentations of Myocarditis in an age group that ordinarily wouldnt see them.

I am not latching onto this as anything but a question mark.  You however, disimiss it far too easily by explaining it away.  All it means is that you are believing everything you are being told.  Thats fine.  It is after all how it works, but my question is, how can we believe all we are told, when we are not being told everything?
Anyone here on this forum knows that I have written multiple times that the side-effects of Pfizer are real and equal to those of AZ, with myocarditis or pericarditis being the major side effects of Pfizer.

I've pretty much been the only regular poster here making that claim against Pfizer, the exact opposite of your accusation against me!

What I completely reject is that the magnitude of the global side-effects of all vaccines in anyway approaches the magnitude of the global effects of Sars-CoV-2. The assertion the side-effects of vaccine are equal or comparable to COVID is laughable!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5888 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
The NUM from our Emergency department out here disagrees with you.

The statistics that are quoted, need to be truly accurate, but if it doesnt suit the stategy what incentive is there for everything to be released accurately?  Whom polices the policemen?

The answer:  Themselves.  They are a law unto themselves, accountability is not a strong suit, its finger pointing, deflection, and numbers on a chalkboard.

You are way too dismissive of voices of true dissent, and are too busy looking at the conspiracy theorists, and lumping everyone into one category.



In a global pandemic, whatever the differences are in the motivations from the voices of true dissent and conspiracy theorists, the message is the same: do not get the jab!

My wife is a chronic asthmatic. If she were to catch Covid, do you think she would feel happier if it were to have been caught from a true dissenter rather than a conspiracy theorist?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5889 –
Quote from: Macca37 on
My wife is a chronic asthmatic. If she were to catch Covid, do you think she would feel happier if it were to have been caught from a true dissenter rather than a conspiracy theorist?
And there will be many cases like your wife, thousands suffering or living in fear in silence, far more than all the conspiracy theorists, deniers or dissenters combined!

While in the meantime grown men claiming to be upholding our rights dress up like elderly women and charge at police lines because they can't go to the pub for a piss up!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5890 –
Mantis, I opened up this thread intending to post about the Atlantic article but when I saw your post I could hardly have done so without commenting on your post. So the Atlantic article wasn't a can of Mortein, even if the juxtaposition might suggest the contrary. :)

For sure, if you reckon the Andrew Govt should be voted out, cast your vote that way. Although I'm a rusted on ALP voter, I'm not an ALP member and couldn't be bothered trying to change others' voting intentions, if that were even possible. One thing that irks me, though, is the notion that pandemic restrictions and mandates are tyrannical and anti-democratic when they are in fact implemented by democratically-elected governments. That's the point of elections. Conservatives are all law & order when conservative governments are elected: elections have consequences, if you don't like the laws, go back where you (or your ancestors) came from. But the moment a Labor Government comes in, suddenly the Government has no right to interfere with individual freedoms irrespective of the public interest, therefore the laws should be flouted as a moral crusade.   

This sort of attitude is on full display in the US with attempts to undermine the voting process, the rise of "sovereign rights", and the undermining of constitutional rights such as the right to abortion. An interesting article about Christian Dominionists paints a troubling picture of an anti-democratic strain of thought that has been influential in the rightwing in the US: How extremist Christian theology is driving the right-wing assault on democracy, Salon. And there are echoes of that thinking apparent over here too.

The issue of consistency in pandemic rules is certainly a minefield. When the Government has tried to be consistent by cracking down on parents taking advantage of playgrounds to enjoy picnics with friends when otherwise that wasn't permitted, it was pilloried with the idea being that this should have been ignored. But when big events happen, people get out the fine tooth combs to tease out inconsistencies with other entertainment venues.

Firstly, consistency is overrated. I remember listening to Fatprick Smith telling KB that the AFL's new rules to protect the head against bumps were desirable, but the AFL should act consistently when it came to marking situations. He believed a player who raised his knee or otherwise threw himself into a pack should be rubbed out if he made contact with the head of another player. If you live your life being a slave to consistency, then it will be a mess. There are nuances and differences between situations. In the big event example, opening them up to double-vaxxed people drives vaccinations and that's in the public interest. As those events are generally more secure than your average cafe, it's easier to ensure that only the double-vaxxed gain entry. The small mom & pop cafe will find it hard to enforce those rules as they don't have turnstiles protected by security with police in attendance to quell disturbances. Anti-vaxxers find it harder to make an impact at those events than they do at the local cafe. If you want to make an impact on the mood of the State by providing bread and circuses, this is the way to go. I don't like it particularly and I wouldn't want to go to those events but I can see their utility in psychological terms. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5891 –
Quote from: Mav on
The small mom & pop cafe will find it hard to enforce those rules as they don't have turnstiles protected by security with police in attendance to quell disturbances.
Exactly.

The protestors are not the brave defenders of the weak and oppressed that they claim to be, but are the jackals feeding on the outliers and isolated fringes of the herd. It is utterly gutless behaviour!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5892 –
And no-one appears to notice how the global numbers have dropped ... dear me.

But the NT chief minister and that arse McGowan squeal like stuck pigs at every chance they get to make political capital. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5893 –
Quote from: Mav on
The issue of consistency in pandemic rules is certainly a minefield. When the Government has tried to be consistent by cracking down on parents taking advantage of playgrounds to enjoy picnics with friends when otherwise that wasn't permitted, it was pilloried with the idea being that this should have been ignored. But when big events happen, people get out the fine tooth combs to tease out inconsistencies with other entertainment venues.
I had a discussion along similar lines just the other day, we looked at how Burythemall had used police and health officials to target specific demographics, it would have been impossible to do the same here in Victoria without being slammed as a racist! Burythemall got away with it because in the zones that concentrated focus was on a lot of non-Australians, Pacific Islanders and Kiwis or 457 workers, and because she had the support of a Federal government!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5894 –
Quote from: capcom on
But the NT chief minister and that arse McGowan squeal like stuck pigs at every chance they get to make political capital.
Yet nobody criticising those governments seems to notice the very low vaccination rates in those regions, or associate it as a cause to retain restrictions until vaccination rates climb!

If they let COVID into indigenous outposts do you think they would be lauded for opening the states to preserve "privilege white freedom"? They are on a hiding to nothing needing to protect a minority from another minority!

Again COVID doesn't discriminate, you can't wait it out, it will get to where you are eventually it is just a matter of when!

One day there will be one last unvaccinated person who never got COVID, and he'll proudly state "I told you so", without any thanks for the efforts! ;)
The Force Awakens!