Carlton Supporters Club

Hope there are lots of posts from happy Carlton supporters for a change. Hopefully I can get to see the game midweek. :(

Once again, carrying too many non competitors and getting smashed for it.

Roos reckons the next month is critical for BB who must be looking to win two of those games otherwise the club will be under pressure to make a hard decision. Time is definitely critical now.

We've probably been avoiding discussing what's been staring us in the face.
We may not be a one man team but we are super dependent on Patrick Cripps.

Not every team has the players equipped to stop him.
But every team  will certainly put an effort into doing so.

Pie fans around me last week were calling us a one man team.

Roos reckons the next month is critical for BB who must be looking to win two of those games otherwise the club will be under pressure to make a hard decision. Time is definitely critical now.

4 games until the bye. St Kilda, Essendon, Brisbane & the Western Bulldogs. All winnable if we're fair-dinkum. For BBs sake you'd reckon 3 wins and a brave loss would see him through.

Either we have a site problem or there are a lot of shell-shocked supporters out there.

'crickets'

Whether we want to admit it or not, this is 'old Carlton' through and through - reliance on individuals. Beginning to become very apparent that nothing has changed.

That's 2 absolute hidings in 3 weeks, punctuated by a brave loss. It's a pattern. No different to 7 years ago, 5 years ago 3 years ago...

A number of us have been crying out to get him (Cripps) some backup for a looong time now. How much longer will this go on. I was very upset to see him getting so frustrated today and I'm very fearful we are going to break him. This needs to be addressed as a matter of first priority - in the meantime we need to try and get some of the pressure off him.

After that disgraceful display I’m wondering if the club should tap a few players on the shoulder to retire so at least we can grab a couple of state league players in the mid season draft.

They may not become instant stars like Tim Kelly but frankly they’re a better option than running out with a midfield with 5 of 6 players aged 21 or below.

Pie fans around me last week were calling us a one man team.

I said pre game that DeBoer would sit on Cripps all game and I guess we got a taste of life without Cripps......and they were cheeky enough to rest
Coniglio too.

Either we have a site problem or there are a lot of shell-shocked supporters out there.

'crickets'

You can feel the hope draining away, Principal LODS. I'm just about at the stage of not going to any further games. Just had enough.

Our club might just 'cure' me of my love for the game. Plenty of other more fruitful and satisfying things I could be doing with my time.

We are witnessing the worst ever on-field Carlton Football Club in our once proud history.

You can feel the hope draining away, Principal LODS. I'm just about at the stage of not going to any further games. Just had enough.

Our club might just 'cure' me of my love for the game. Plenty of other more fruitful and satisfying things I could be doing with my time.

We are witnessing the worst ever on-field Carlton Football Club in our once proud history.

I'm assuming we don't have any site issues as folks are still posting.

After a performance like this we usually get a stack of posts.
Losing usually sees a spike in activity as posters rush to give an opinion
Maybe there are a few  feeling the 'cure'.

Rag dolled for 120 mins.  Was SPS on the ground in the final quarter?

You can feel the hope draining away, Principal LODS. I'm just about at the stage of not going to any further games. Just had enough.

Our club might just 'cure' me of my love for the game. Plenty of other more fruitful and satisfying things I could be doing with my time.

We are witnessing the worst ever on-field Carlton Football Club in our once proud history.

Starting to feel a bit that way myself Baggers. I am becoming very intolerant of the AFL scene and the people involved in it - what am I getting out of it but constant disappointment? This year is proving to be death by a thousand cuts.

38 shots to 10.  We will finish last.  Say what you will but the players have little interest in a fight .... and Bolton is not the only one who deserves serious scrutiny. 

Roos reckons the next month is critical for BB who must be looking to win two of those games otherwise the club will be under pressure to make a hard decision. Time is definitely critical now.

Reckon he might need the next two games....I think reasonable folk expected a 5-6 goal loss today given
our backline injuries but not close to a 100 points and the GWS coach took it easy on us moving a few players to different spots o
on the ground to experiment once the game as over at half time, so it could have been a lot worse.

20 years on - different coaches, different players, different recruiters, different board / president, different boot studders, different tea lady - same sad ending.

Solution - sack Bolton.

Either we have a site problem or there are a lot of shell-shocked supporters out there.

'crickets'

Well I only post when we lose so here's another.

Quote from MM (no not Malthouse but Mark Maclure) The Carlton Football Club has gifted games to some very ordinary footballers and today we saw that. I am now going got see the same amount of wooden spoons as I have premiership. (8) This club is on its knees I cannot see anyway out. These so called green shoots are just rubbish. I read on here that we have a talented list Someone convince me PLEASE.

Disgraceful.....how does the club expect us to see any future when 4 years into a full rebuild we dish up rubbish like that. I know we are not at full strength but what team is. We have a handful of proven footballers and rest are kids with question marks over them. Out of all our kids we have just one in Sam Walsh that works hard without the ball. The rest are just happy to jog along at 1/2 pace. Disgraceful. 

Potential means nothing and as supporters we have hung our hat on it as though all the kids are going to develop exactly into the type of player we drafted or traded them for. Jury is still out.

I’m getting tired of being positive and getting tired of waiting.

38 shots to 10.  We will finish last.  Say what you will but the players have little interest in a fight .... and Bolton is not the only one who deserves serious scrutiny.

Leadership was non existent with Cripps unable to lead by example, cant blame Murphy either, he was too busy counting his ribs....

Once again, carrying too many non competitors and getting smashed for it.

How's the coach going? 4-41, 1-8 now 2 games in 3 weeks that resembled the rubbish of last year.

I think he can go tomorrow.

20 years on - different coaches, different players, different recruiters, different board / president, different boot studders, different tea lady - same sad ending.

Solution - sack Bolton.

No one is saying sack him but today wasnt great even by rebuilding standards....as I said 5-6 goals was probably a reasonable outcome but not shy of 100 points.
If the club say they have the list they want then you have to look elsewhere and the reliance on Cripps is just too great.

20 years on - different coaches, different players, different recruiters, different board / president, different boot studders, different tea lady - same sad ending.

Solution - sack Bolton.

I doubt it would stop there.

Leadership was non existent with Cripps unable to lead by example, cant blame Murphy either, he was too busy counting his ribs....

.......which then begs the questions, who were our remaining onfield leaders??

20 years on - different coaches, different players, different recruiters, different board / president, different boot studders, different tea lady - same sad ending.

Solution - sack Bolton.

Hahahaha. Still can't admit it.

What do you think, keep him and do the same thing? He's obviously not up to it.

We pick coaches very badly. 2 x young coaches that have never played, recipe for failure, 2 x dinosaurs so far past it. Failures! One that did well, what was his background? Star player, had his own team, assistant, then his first gig. 50+ percent winning record with a pretty average team. That 50+ record was after he last his first 9 games, 6-7 tanked of course.

20 years on - different coaches, different players, different recruiters, different board / president, different boot studders, different tea lady - same sad ending.

Solution - sack Bolton.

No.

Why do you keep going there? It aint that simple and most folks here acknowledge that.

Just look logically at what you wrote... if your first line is true, then it's a whole club problem, starting with the Board. The only area of the club that is actually performing is off-field.

In the coming 4 weeks we have 4 games we are quite capable of winning and must win to show we're on the right track. After those, we'll know even more.

.......which then begs the questions, who were our remaining onfield leaders??

Newman tried to lead the backline, not that he has many games to his CV, Daisy tried to help Cripps and rally the troops but its slim pickings after that.

No one is saying sack him but today wasnt great even by rebuilding standards....as I said 5-6 goals was probably a reasonable outcome but not shy of 100 points.
If the club say they have the list they want then you have to look elsewhere and the reliance on Cripps is just too great.

I agree, it was painful to endure, but there are people on here who are saying exactly that.

How many of those on the park today have played more than 50 games ? 7, 8 ?

Leadership was non existent with Cripps unable to lead by example, cant blame Murphy either, he was too busy counting his ribs....

Heaven forbid we don't want to see anything happen  to Cripps, but it does throw another element into any evaluation of the process.

How much are we actually developing in the rest of the list if we are so reliant on him
He makes the players around him better , stand a little taller, and if he's curtailed we seem very, very ordinary.

Heaven forbid we don't want to see anything happen  to him but it does throw another element into any evaluation of the process.

How much are we actually developing in the rest of the list if we are so reliant on him
He makes the players around him better , stand a little taller, and if he's curtailed we seem very, very ordinary.

I thought we had a over reliance on Judd but the one we have now with Cripps is even worse.....ok we get up for the next game on the back of Cripps being BOG but does that really change anything?
We need Setterfield or Kennedy to be BOG, McGovern to kick 6 and SPS to get 35 possies......

Hahahaha. Still can't admit it.

What do you think, keep him and do the same thing? He's obviously not up to it.

We pick coaches very badly. 2 x young coaches that have never played, recipe for failure, 2 x dinosaurs so far past it. Failures! One that did well, what was his background? Star player, had his own team, assistant, then his first gig. 50+ percent winning record with a pretty average team. That 50+ record was after he last his first 9 games, 6-7 tanked of course.

Pagan was 55/56 years old when he started with us, exactly the same age as Fagan was when he started with the Lions. So apart from their absurdly rhyming surnames, there's a little fact for you to ponder. Agan with an F is the current critics darling, but agan with a P is a dinosaur ?

Malthouse has the Pies in a GF 12 months before he came to us.

Starting to feel a bit that way myself Baggers. I am becoming very intolerant of the AFL scene and the people involved in it - what am I getting out of it but constant disappointment? This year is proving to be death by a thousand cuts.

I turned it off after GWS's 6th goal, couldn't watch anymore. It was the North game all over again. Zero effort.

I agree, it was painful to endure, but there are people on here who are saying exactly that.

How many of those on the park today have played more than 50 games ? 7, 8 ?

What more do you want. It's going no-where. We're totally back to last year's effort now.

4-41, 1-8. Anyone would've gone long ago. This is rubbish. Never take coach's that have never played at the highest level.

I agree, it was painful to endure, but there are people on here who are saying exactly that.

How many of those on the park today have played more than 50 games ? 7, 8 ?

I've just looked through many posts and I cannot find anyone saying sack BB. And so what if there were, they're entitled to their opinion like you are with yours.

Amount of games is irrelevant in regard to attitude and application. Remember BB saying, "We'll be defined by our pressure." Remember that? And that was about 2 years ago!

Very little positives to come out of the game, so i'll try my best to provide some.

1. The obvious one was Harry McKay. Big bloke who can take a grab, but good on the move too. Looks very comfortable running with ball in hand. Very good kick at goal, despite some yips he's experienced recently. Harry is back, but this version is 'the modern day dinosaur'!

2. How well GWS played together. How well they worked as a team. Why is this a positive? Because not so long ago, they were a rabble that were getting flogged week in week out and they had little hope apart from a talented list. Connect the dots and we see not all hope is lost. The difference is they have played 100+ games together and understand how eachother work. How many 'no look' handballs and kicks just happened to find a teammate today? Are they the luckiest team around or do they know how eachother play.

3. Cripps is probably leading the brownlow. Is definitely leading the coaches votes....and probably a whole lot of other votes as well. He was bound to have a bad one. Thankfully(?) it came against a side that we were no hope of winning against...at least not after the first quarter. Its best we don't 'waste' his good games.

4. We have played 31 players so far this year. Will be 32 when we bring in Kennedy next week. Should have been 34 with Pickett and Docherty unavailable for the year. We are finding out plenty about our list and plenty of kids are getting games in them. This will help long term. Players like Obrien and Stocker are not meant to be playing as much footy as they have been given the stage of their development, but it will help them long term in terms of what is required at AFL level. Short term pain, long term gain. The downside of going so deep into you list, and playing so many kids is what you see today. Too many indians, and not enough chiefs. A balance that will be restored when we get some more players back from injury.

So thats about all i got.  :-\

Bolton should be sacked. enough is enough.

Charlie Curnow, Lachie O'Brien and Paddy Dow to the 2s for extended periods....

Matt Kennedy in the 1s (disgraceful that LOB has been getting picked ahead of Matthew).

Very little positives to come out of the game, so i'll try my best to provide some.

1. The obvious one was Harry McKay. Big bloke who can take a grab, but good on the move too. Looks very comfortable running with ball in hand. Very good kick at goal, despite some yips he's experienced recently. Harry is back, but this version is 'the modern day dinosaur'!

2. How well GWS played together. How well they worked as a team. Why is this a positive? Because not so long ago, they were a rabble that were getting flogged week in week out and they had little hope apart from a talented list. Connect the dots and we see not all hope is lost. The difference is they have played 100+ games together and understand how eachother work. How many 'no look' handballs and kicks just happened to find a teammate today? Are they the luckiest team around or do they know how eachother play.

3. Cripps is probably leading the brownlow. Is definitely leading the coaches votes....and probably a whole lot of other votes as well. He was bound to have a bad one. Thankfully(?) it came against a side that we were no hope of winning against...at least not after the first quarter. Its best we don't 'waste' his good games.

4. We have played 31 players so far this year. Will be 32 when we bring in Kennedy next week. Should have been 34 with Pickett and Docherty unavailable for the year. We are finding out plenty about our list and plenty of kids are getting games in them. This will help long term. Players like Obrien and Stocker are not meant to be playing as much footy as they have been given the stage of their development, but it will help them long term in terms of what is required at AFL level. Short term pain, long term gain. The downside of going so deep into you list, and playing so many kids is what you see today. Too many indians, and not enough chiefs. A balance that will be restored when we get some more players back from injury.

So thats about all i got.  :-\

Cripps didnt have a bad one...DeBeor did a number on him and we had no plan to counteract that expected move apart from bringing Obrien in who would struggle to win a contest at Auskick level.
Kennedy should have played as both you and I discussed pre game.....our off field scouting, planning is horrendous,  Hawthorn made GWS look weak and soft because Clarkson is master tactician and
has a feel for the game. Our blokes looked up and saw Mumford and decided it was time to check out...think we had one tackle for about 25 mins into the 1st quarter and that was Cripps who had the tackle.
I get your positives ie Harry but that was lack off effort today, we pushed Hawthorn with Cripps leading the way but today he was let down on and off the field..

Cripps didnt have a bad one...DeBeor did a number on him

DeBoer did do a number on him, but he is not the first to try and stop cripps, and he won't be the last. Regardless, Cripps has been able to find a way to dominate the game no matter who is trying to stop him.

So yes, Cripps did have a bad one, but it was not through lack of trying, just results wise.

Bolton should be sacked. enough is enough.

Charlie Curnow, Lachie O'Brien and Paddy Dow to the 2s for extended periods....

Matt Kennedy in the 1s (disgraceful that LOB has been getting picked ahead of Matthew).

I watched LOB closely for a while today - he actually just stood there on one occasion and literally watched a GWS player with the ball just sweep past him without offering any form of a tackle. The guy literally just brushed past him and LOB just jogged away. I could not believe my eyes. This game should have been turned into a dogfight with us just scrapping to spoil their every move and disrupt their ball movement. We may have ended up with a much more respectable loss.

There was one moment LOB tried to tackle a GWS lad (forget who) and physically couldn't get him off his feet. The lad just bent over and carried him on his back.

LOB simply doesn't have the size to compete effectively at AFL level and should not be put back until he does.

EDIT: That being said, LOB had more touches and more fantasy points than Cripps did today.....well so did 15 other players wearing a CFC monogram.

I watched Carlton players display 120 minutes  equal parts of lack of ability and lack of application.

I suppose I've seen a worse display some time over my many years of watching Carlton, but what makes this so dreadful is that we are so far into a rebuild.  My wife tells me that I'm a masochist for watching and I must agree with her.

I don't think I have ever felt so dejected.

Given I saw the first 10 or so mins of the game only, I just checked over the stats. One Carlton player, yes one, had more than 20 disposals (Newman 29). Thats a disgraceful performance. GWS had nearly 200 more disposals, I'm speechless.

DeBoer did do a number on him, but he is not the first to try and stop cripps, and he won't be the last. Regardless, Cripps has been able to find a way to dominate the game no matter who is trying to stop him.

So yes, Cripps did have a bad one, but it was not through lack of trying, just results wise.

I guess my point is that Debeor has done a number on everyone he has played on this season and its not like we didnt know what to expect?, there is never a plan B,C etc....he is the premier tagger
in the comp and Cripps is going to have more trouble than usual so why not help the poor bugger out a bit more. We cannot keep expecting him to carry the team and beat every tagger thrown his way, you have to have other plans. What is the point of recruiting Kennedy and Setterfield?....or having a midfield coach?

Very little positives to come out of the game, so i'll try my best to provide some.

1. The obvious one was Harry McKay. Big bloke who can take a grab, but good on the move too. Looks very comfortable running with ball in hand. Very good kick at goal, despite some yips he's experienced recently. Harry is back, but this version is 'the modern day dinosaur'!

2. How well GWS played together. How well they worked as a team. Why is this a positive? Because not so long ago, they were a rabble that were getting flogged week in week out and they had little hope apart from a talented list. Connect the dots and we see not all hope is lost. The difference is they have played 100+ games together and understand how eachother work. How many 'no look' handballs and kicks just happened to find a teammate today? Are they the luckiest team around or do they know how eachother play.

3. Cripps is probably leading the brownlow. Is definitely leading the coaches votes....and probably a whole lot of other votes as well. He was bound to have a bad one. Thankfully(?) it came against a side that we were no hope of winning against...at least not after the first quarter. Its best we don't 'waste' his good games.

4. We have played 31 players so far this year. Will be 32 when we bring in Kennedy next week. Should have been 34 with Pickett and Docherty unavailable for the year. We are finding out plenty about our list and plenty of kids are getting games in them. This will help long term. Players like Obrien and Stocker are not meant to be playing as much footy as they have been given the stage of their development, but it will help them long term in terms of what is required at AFL level. Short term pain, long term gain. The downside of going so deep into you list, and playing so many kids is what you see today. Too many indians, and not enough chiefs. A balance that will be restored when we get some more players back from injury.

So thats about all i got.  :-\

I don’t think I’ve ever seen one team turn everything to ???? and the other have such a Midas touch as today.

That’s as much positive as I can find.

There was one moment LOB tried to tackle a GWS lad (forget who) and physically couldn't get him off his feet. The lad just bent over and carried him on his back.

LOB simply doesn't have the size to compete effectively at AFL level and should not be put back until he does.

EDIT: That being said, LOB had more touches and more fantasy points than Cripps did today.....well so did 15 other players wearing a CFC monogram.

LOB was a fantasy selection at pick 10, Fisher tackles fine and is built like a baby whippet...lets be brutally honest LOB doesnt like contesting or tackling and we are not good enough to afford
players who like to sit on the outside looking for a cheapie and lose interest when its their time to tackle.

I watched LOB closely for a while today - he actually just stood there on one occasion and literally watched a GWS player with the ball just sweep past him without offering any form of a tackle. The guy literally just brushed past him and LOB just jogged away. I could not believe my eyes. This game should have been turned into a dogfight with us just scrapping to spoil their every move and disrupt their ball movement. We may have ended up with a much more respectable loss.

Cookie most of our kids just jog when they don’t have the ball.

SPS, Dow, Setterfield don’t have a sprint gear and are too one paced.

Yesterday I watched a low level suburban game - 101pts at half time and 209 at the end.  Very boring, even with the right team winning.  Today was shocking.  Didn't even bother getting emotionally involved and just kept half en eye on it.

Today I watched the U9s and thought that there are some similarities.  If you are 7 before 1 January, you can play under 9s.  This means that there are some small skinny kids playing against some large 9yos.  Often the small skinny's are timid, not reading play and lack confidence under a bit of pressure.  The bigger kids, or ones that have played the extra year tend to dominate.

Unfortunately, we have a bunch of small skinny kids.  Fisher was very fumbly early, which was indicative of what was to come.  Late in the game LOB should have been in the thick of things, opted out and his effort to tackle would have scored 1 out of 1,000. 

Voting in the Park Medal will be interesting - Garlett, Kerr and Kennedy were probably in the best.

While our defence has been decimated, our midfiled has to start standing up and being accountable. 

Couldn't be the forwards, the ball wasn't there.  Couldn't be the midfield as the ball wasn't with them.  Couldn't be with the backline, as they kept giving it back.  Leaves the bench!

Interestingly, I thought the commentary was quite bullish at the start about us, but then turned to what we might do (eg throw all experience in the middle and tell them they have to stem the bleeding).  Not sure if we did any of it.

The result wasn't so unexpected - the manner and magnitude of it was.

Got a lot to do before the Saints next week.

Maybe they all had the flu? 

I say that tongue in cheek, however our no. 2 wears his heart on his sleeve and gives his everything, JSOS, was as inept and ineffectual as all the others.

LOB was a fantasy selection at pick 10, Fisher tackles fine and is built like a baby whippet...lets be brutally honest LOB doesnt like contesting or tackling and we are not good enough to afford
players who like to sit on the outside looking for a cheapie and lose interest when its their time to tackle.

 ;D ;D ;D

Maybe they all had the flu? 

I say that tongue in cheek, however our no. 2 wears his heart on his sleeve and gives his everything, JSOS, was as inept and ineffectual as all the others.

Are you referring to Dow as No2? In terms of Jack Silvagni, I thought he was one of our very few contributors and continued his 2019 improvement. 

Are you referring to Dow as No2? In terms of Jack Silvagni, I thought he was one of our very few contributors and continued his 2019 improvement.

No sorry I meant our no2 in heart (cripps being no1!)

I meant Jack

I have a positive.
We were lucky they didn't kick straight

I have rarely seen a midfield beaten so comprehensively as ours was beaten today. And they didn't have Ward and Coniglio. We have very serious midfield problems that need to be addressed. We are way off the pace

Heaven forbid we don't want to see anything happen  to Cripps, but it does throw another element into any evaluation of the process.

How much are we actually developing in the rest of the list if we are so reliant on him
He makes the players around him better , stand a little taller, and if he's curtailed we seem very, very ordinary.

I said at the start of the year, we need to get him out of the midfield for periods.
Someone asked why would you take your best midfielder out of the middle.

The answer is to develop multiple players and make us harder to play against.

The Hawks always had multiple avenues to goal even when Dunstall was at his best.
St Kilda relied mostly on Lockett

I have rarely seen a midfield beaten so comprehensively as ours was beaten today. And they didn't have Ward and Coniglio. We have very serious midfield problems that need to be addressed. We are way off the pace

Totally agree, we need a couple of experienced bigger midfield bodies to help Cripps, Setterfield is a newbie kid learning the game and Kennedy has been injury prone.
and while he has been in the system a while is still finding his feet as a regular senior player.

Maybe more than small forwards we need a Marlion Pickett and Jye Bolton in the mid season draft who can help Cripps and give us some cover while Setterfield and Kennedy establish themselves.

I'm wondering if it is time to think outside the square. There are so many of us that have had enough, we're over it, time to do something different. We are so terribly deficient in the midfield, let's do something about it. At current ladder positions we'll end up with picks around 13 and 19. We desperately need mature, quality mids. We have an excess of key forwards (McKay, C Curnow, McGovern, Casboult, Kerr). Who could we get for say C Curnow plus pick 13? McGovern plus pick 19? I'm sick of losing, get some players in next year who can play

Totally agree, we need a couple of experienced bigger midfield bodies to help Cripps, Setterfield is a newbie kid learning the game and Kennedy has been injury prone.
and while he has been in the system a while is still finding his feet as a regular senior player.

Maybe more than small forwards we need a Marlion Pickett and Jye Bolton in the mid season draft who can help Cripps and give us some cover while Setterfield and Kennedy establish themselves.

Kennedy has been playing 2s
E Curnow on a flank

Bolton prefers the bigger bodies of Fisher, SPS and Dow

Jack did ok in the third when in the middle

The coach is wasting valuable development time

Maybe Shorten could give him a new plan

I said at the start of the year, we need to get him out of the midfield for periods.
Someone asked why would you take your best midfielder out of the middle.

The answer is to develop multiple players and make us harder to play against.

The Hawks always had multiple avenues to goal even when Dunstall was at his best.
St Kilda relied mostly on Lockett

I remember Raydan mounting an argument for Judd stepping away from the mid-field to let Paddy Cripps develop in a similar way.
I argued against it at the time thinking it was better for the young player to watch a champion at close hand.....but once Judd went out of the side Cripps stepped up very quickly.

https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=2167.0

The problem is we would probably have further short term pain while the young guys developed.
Can the club and coach afford that at this time.

Short term pain. Medium term pain. long term pain. Can't tell the difference anymore

Totally agree, we need a couple of experienced bigger midfield bodies to help Cripps, Setterfield is a newbie kid learning the game and Kennedy has been injury prone.
and while he has been in the system a while is still finding his feet as a regular senior player.

Maybe more than small forwards we need a Marlion Pickett and Jye Bolton in the mid season draft who can help Cripps and give us some cover while Setterfield and Kennedy establish themselves.

‘while Kennedy and Settlefield establish themself’ or IF they establish themself.

This is a major part of our problem EB, we count players in well before they have shown anything. We just assume every early pick turns into a player. They don’t.

Neither has shown anything other then their draft position to suggest they will make it.

One has played 5 games the other seems to have commitment issues played 20 or so and looks very slow. Not exactly great signs to lock them in imo.

If we got a Newman type of player in each area of the ground (defence, mids and attack) over the last 3 years we would be miles ahead of where we are. Did we look hard enough ?

Too many kids without support is not the way to rebuild imo.

Kennedy has been playing 2s
E Curnow on a flank

Bolton prefers the bigger bodies of Fisher, SPS and Dow

Jack did ok in the third when in the middle

The coach is wasting valuable development time

Maybe Shorten could give him a new plan

Kennedy needs time like Setterfield both still learning...Jye Bolton and Marlion Pickett are mature footballers.
If Ed isnt tagging he doesnt impact enough for mine, we really need a Tim Kelly who can step straight in, get 25 plus possies a game and draw some heat off Cripps but quality like that
as a freebie doesnt  come around that often so you have to go with whats available.
We dont need more 75kg kids at the mid season draft.....

Totally agree, we need a couple of experienced bigger midfield bodies to help Cripps, Setterfield is a newbie kid learning the game and Kennedy has been injury prone.
and while he has been in the system a while is still finding his feet as a regular senior player.

Maybe more than small forwards we need a Marlion Pickett and Jye Bolton in the mid season draft who can help Cripps and give us some cover while Setterfield and Kennedy establish themselves.

Marlion pickett is a no brainer but it's going to be difficult to bring in Kennedy after he's missed a couple of weeks (?) of footy.

Kreuzer was pretty average today and didn't protect our players against Mumford nor offer anything around the ground & both Curnow's decision making is appalling - they can be exciting, but they make a lot of mistakes.

Murphy wouldn't have made one iota of difference and the harsh reality for all of us is that Ed Curnow, Gibbons, Macreadie, LOB, Stocker, Silvagni, Casboult, Thomas & arguably Setterfield wouldn't be playing in many of the top 8 senior sides.

Cunningham, Simpson will help next week and I'd also consider Lang for some run.

Maybe time to start to pick teams more on merit instead of
“Getting games into them”
Example our key defender is injured so instead of bringing in Goddard a key defender playing well in the two’s we try to turn a ruckman into chb WTF, O’Brien hasn’t had a kick in the two’s let alone the ones gets a game Schumacher who has been playing well gets left out!  Ed curnow is a tagger no more no less hey let’s try and turn him into Eddie betts, Charlie superstar can’t get a touch let alone dominate but Kerr who has been consistent can’t get a run, Kennedy must have run over the coaches dog as a bloke of his ability not being picked is a joke.
It’s round 9 one win after two wins last year think I have bought my last membership after nearly 51 years just don’t have the stomach to remain positive I’ve tried but have almost lost interest completely

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-05-19/bolton-blues-failed-to-respond?fbclid=IwAR1nbQpj9Qr_pBRC3p1QR8JmPRfYjawon0FFQm1SCSw7ugt_qTtVjbVebnk

Maybe time to start to pick teams more on merit instead of
“Getting games into them”
Example our key defender is injured so instead of bringing in Goddard a key defender playing well in the two’s we try to turn a ruckman into chb WTF, O’Brien hasn’t had a kick in the two’s let alone the ones gets a game Schumacher who has been playing well gets left out!  Ed curnow is a tagger no more no less hey let’s try and turn him into Eddie betts, Charlie superstar can’t get a touch let alone dominate but Kerr who has been consistent can’t get a run, Kennedy must have run over the coaches dog as a bloke of his ability not being picked is a joke.
It’s round 9 one win after two wins last year think I have bought my last membership after nearly 51 years just don’t have the stomach to remain positive I’ve tried but have almost lost interest completely

We all feel your pain & it was hard to watch

Maybe time to start to pick teams more on merit instead of
“Getting games into them”
Example our key defender is injured so instead of bringing in Goddard a key defender playing well in the two’s we try to turn a ruckman into chb WTF, O’Brien hasn’t had a kick in the two’s let alone the ones gets a game Schumacher who has been playing well gets left out!  Ed curnow is a tagger no more no less hey let’s try and turn him into Eddie betts, Charlie superstar can’t get a touch let alone dominate but Kerr who has been consistent can’t get a run, Kennedy must have run over the coaches dog as a bloke of his ability not being picked is a joke.
It’s round 9 one win after two wins last year think I have bought my last membership after nearly 51 years just don’t have the stomach to remain positive I’ve tried but have almost lost interest completely

Great post.

I do believe its vital we keep playing the ones that we are almost certain will make it but the kids are a different story - they should be played on form majority of the time.

Does look like many of our kids are too comfortable and know Bolton has their back.

Didn’t Bolton say get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Not sure our kids were listening when this was said.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2019-05-19/bolton-blues-failed-to-respond?fbclid=IwAR1nbQpj9Qr_pBRC3p1QR8JmPRfYjawon0FFQm1SCSw7ugt_qTtVjbVebnk

So BB asks we not treat this game in isolation but rather look at the body of our work over 9 games. Okay. We've won 1 game.

Marlion pickett is a no brainer but it's going to be difficult to bring in Kennedy after he's missed a couple of weeks (?) of footy.

Kreuzer was pretty average today and didn't protect our players against Mumford nor offer anything around the ground & both Curnow's decision making is appalling - they can be exciting, but they make a lot of mistakes.

Murphy wouldn't have made one iota of difference and the harsh reality for all of us is that Ed Curnow, Gibbons, Macreadie, LOB, Stocker, Silvagni, Casboult, Thomas & arguably Setterfield wouldn't be playing in many of the top 8 senior sides.

Cunningham, Simpson will help next week and I'd also consider Lang for some run.

Hopefully Jones back too as you need effort players and he gives you that, Kerr would also be a cert for me and Casboult out..McGovern can play down back in Plowmans role and
intercept like his brother and maybe play on Membrey who has become a decent player for the Saints...
Lang is 50/50 for me...still not sold on him but he does kick straight when he gets near goal and maybe Gibbons needs a rest too...unsighted today.
Macreadie and Obrien need NB's time too...I'd keep Stocker in the team as well as Jack, not great today but didnt give up.

Why do our players jog after the player with the ball or better still, run towards the potential receiver instead of attacking the ball-carrier ??

Admittedly it was from the perspective of the TV but I lost count the number of times it looked like our players appeared to completely ignore the guy with the ball even though they were within arms distance of them.

So BB asks we not treat this game in isolation but rather look at the body of our work over 9 games. Okay. We've won 1 game.

Bolton's kidding himself.  If we lose to the saints, he will be sacked.  Footy is big business and loyalty can only go so far.  We all love the navy blues- that is why we are on here and talk about them every week.  But as a supporter you need to see progress.  We haven't.  I don't know who will do a better job, or even if anyone can, but this I do know- the current setup is not working.  As senior coach you simply must take full responsibility.

Hopefully Jones back too as you need effort players and he gives you that, Kerr would also be a cert for me and Casboult out..McGovern can play down back in Plowmans role and
intercept like his brother and maybe play on Membrey who has become a decent player for the Saints...
Lang is 50/50 for me...still not sold on him but he does kick straight when he gets near goal and maybe Gibbons needs a rest too...unsighted today.
Macreadie and Obrien need NB's time too...I'd keep Stocker in the team as well as Jack, not great today but didnt give up.

Agree on Macreadie and OBrien and also agree that Jones and JSOS always give a 100% effort, which is more than you can say about a number of others.

Im not entirely convinced about Kerr as he isn’t overly agile or quick, but it’s certainly worth trying st this stage.

 I expected today's result,  so I can't get too worked up about it.   I didn't see the presser but if I was BB I would have shopped Mumthug...."yeah,  Murphy is OK,  got busted ribs, tends to be what happens when a bloke goes in with the knees after the ball has moved on... "

 Hard for the defenders today with the abject lack of pressure applied by the midfield today. So I'll cut those blokes some slack. MacCreadie was picked before he was ready.

But I'm totally over our midfield.   Christ we have some soft passengers and blokes that drink their own bathwater.

Ed has been a loyal servant but gees he's a limited footballer and good players badly show him up.

Need to start selecting a side with a chance.  That means no Lachie O'Brien, no Levi Casboult and dropping blokes like Dow and both the Curnows.  Pick Kennedy and get him involved. Heck,  wasn't he supposed to be Cripps' support,  difficult to do that in the twos.

I've heard lots of theories about OBrien - he needs mass, he needs strength he needs games he needs kryoptonite.   What he needs is a cup of concrete because his "efforts" today were deadset piss weak. Harden up or F off.

And we need ready mades in the MSD,  not kids for the future.  If there don't start to be wins,  there won't be any future.

And forget about trades and FA. No one in their right mind will come to Carlton.   Nobody.

The club has until the bye to turn this around,  or it's going to get nasty,  really nasty.  It's flashing light panic button time.

It really looks like it’s time for the mid season review of every role in the entire club after this next game against the Saints. To see what is working and what isn’t. Coaches, players, recruit staff, team selection for every match, game plans, tactical changes etc. Before the bye. Before the mini break. Like a fresh start with new ways to develop and move forward before we see positive changes. A good soul searching moment for every player too. Seriously looking at their own performance and efforts in the first part of this season. It’s hard to see that every person in the club has bought into this rebuild properly yet. Especially the players. The coach BB has stuck by the playing group. Are they prepared to do their best to cover his arse. Questions need to be asked before we can honestly move a real step forward. Plenty of fine tuning to do at the moment.

Kennedy needs time like Setterfield both still learning...Jye Bolton and Marlion Pickett are mature footballers.
If Ed isnt tagging he doesnt impact enough for mine, we really need a Tim Kelly who can step straight in, get 25 plus possies a game and draw some heat off Cripps but quality like that
as a freebie doesnt  come around that often so you have to go with whats available.
We dont need more 75kg kids at the mid season draft.....

We got Gibbons who won three league medals as a mid, but our genius coach has decided to turn him into a forward pocket.

We play ourselves into the ground against Hawthorn and go down by less than a goal  (away in Tassie...no mean feat!). Then we don't turn up against North.

We push the league's form team like few others have this year and scare the crap out of them for 3 quarters and 20 mins. Then we don't turn up against GWS.

Re employ Rudy Webster....it's all between the ears!!

Norp and the White Walkers both had physical intimidating players we do not like playing against, we become turtles under Mumford type physical pressure.

A kid like Polson will crack in but he is a support player, there is no point expecting blokes like Polson or Murphy to do the heavy hitting and see out a game! So nothing is gained by making those changes as we just do not have enough of that type, we are too easy to play against!

Yesterday's game was a blight on SpecialK, Casboult and maybe even Charlie, McKay and McGovern, allowing a spud like Mumford to make himself so valuable without having to touch the football.

Norp and the White Walkers both had physical intimidating players we do not like playing against, we become turtles under Mumford type physical pressure.

A kid like Polson will crack in but he is a support player, there is no point expecting blokes like Polson or Murphy to do the heavy hitting and see out a game! So nothing is gained by making those changes as we just do not have enough of that type, we are too easy to play against!

Yesterday's game was a blight on SpecialK, Casboult and maybe even Charlie, McKay and McGovern, allowing a spud like Mumford to make himself so valuable without having to touch the football.

I wish we had a spud like Mumford.

We talk up our blokes all the time but they all go missing when it counts.

This is a historic problem and even cripps did it yesterday.

They walked out there with the wrong mental mindset.

Inexcusable at this level of professional sport....

That is amateur hour. Fundamental, inexcusable mistake.

38 shots to 10.

I50 - 65 to 35 (and a lot of our came late in the game).

Newman the only player with more than 20 disposals - they had 12.

I'm over Bolton - nice blokes seldom win.

Mumford is one player out of 22. Stop exaggerating. The GWS boys are the cleanest, nicest blokes in the AFL.

We got beaten by a team that is more experienced, older, more polished, more skilful, hungrier and desperate to atone for last week's embarrassment.

I wish we had a spud like Mumford.

We talk up our blokes all the time but they all go missing when it counts.

This is a historic problem and even cripps did it yesterday.

A few of us have warned the toll it will take on Cripps leaving him out there week after week without support, now you are seeing it happen!

Next thing will be Cripps gets reported, out of frustration, and the white-ants like Lyon and Watson will be all about how low can we go! I'm telling you the best thing would be for him to get a week or two now, and let him loose on the taggers for the remainder of the season free of concerns like Brownlows or B&Fs!

Mumford is one player out of 22. Stop exaggerating. The GWS boys are the cleanest, nicest blokes in the AFL.

We got beaten by a team that is more experienced, older, more polished, more skilful, hungrier and desperate to atone for last week's embarrassment.

Mumford, Greene, Shaw, Cameron, Davis, Kelly and Finlayson are veritable thugs compared to our lot! Almost all of their list tackle to hurt, we don't and if we do we get reported or penalised, like that joke free against Daisy!

Again, dumb coaching - we have Kennedy, Ed Curnow and even Gibbons as mature, big bodies....

Kennedy not picked week after week despite being one of the best in the 2s....and LOB does get picked after showing exactly nothing.

Ed C played in the forward line when he's a grunt, stopper type - and nothing else really.

Gibbons - he won two Listons doing what exactly?

Was SoJ tried in the guts yesterday?

..............

Mumford, Greene, Shaw, Cameron, Davis, Kelly and Finlayson are veritable thugs compared to our lot! Almost all of their list tackle to hurt, we don't and if we do we get reported or penalised, like that joke free against Daisy!

Given all the moaning and groaning about umps and how unfair they are to us, is it possible that over the years the players have become tentative and uncertain, or have simply given up because no matter what they do, it's wrong ?

Again, dumb coaching - we have Kennedy, Ed Curnow and even Gibbons as mature, big bodies....

Kennedy not picked week after week despite being one of the best in the 2s....and LOB does get picked after showing exactly nothing.

Ed C played in the forward line when he's a grunt, stopper type - and nothing else really.

Gibbons - he won two Listons doing what exactly?

Was SoJ tried in the guts yesterday?

Gibbons wasn't a positive yesterday, he was all over the field causing turnovers and free kicks. The panicked poor disposals he could get away with in the VFL just cost AFL goals!

SoJ had no match up yesterday in the midfield, neither did Ed, the problems start at the MC and a lack of our own game plan to deal with the GWS run and spread or the Mumford intimidation.

Fans want Kennedy, but he's fragile and he certainly doesn't add pace.

Given all the moaning and groaning about umps and how unfair they are to us, is it possible that over the years the players have become tentative and uncertain, or have simply given up because no matter what they do, it's wrong ?

Perhaps that is the price you pay when you keep your head down and let others do the talking. Fans lambasted Lloyd today, but he should be in the media 10 times a week not rarely and only when things are so bad, he should be a regular weekly or daily defender of the troupes, and fully experienced in the media by now!

Ask yourself this question,


The joke is the suggestion from officials or fans that our professional players can somehow be immune, indifferent or deflecting of this "External Noise!"

Gibbons wasn't a positive yesterday, he was all over he field causing turnovers and free kicks. The panicked poor disposals he could get away with in the VFL just cost AFL goals!

SoJ had no match up yesterday in the midfield, neither did Ed, the problems start at the MC and a lack of our own game plan to deal with the GWS run and spread or the Mumford intimidation.

Fans want Kennedy, but he's fragile and he certainly doesn't add pace.

Kennedy is not fragile (despite recent injuries) and he's not slow.

At least he puts in...young Lachie - a disaster thus far.

Was never a #10 draftee.

And Dow needs to play 2s and learn how to play the game again....

Kennedy is not fragile (despite recent injuries) and he's not slow.

At least he puts in...young Lachie - a disaster thus far.

Was never a #10 draftee.

And Dow needs to play 2s and learn how to play the game again....

They do not play in the same position, and never will!

The MC won't replace O'Brien with a Kennedy type, for Kennedy to come in the MC must be chopping Setterfield, Gibbons, Fisher, Dow, Ed, or Cripps.

You are thinking emotively and not clearly, if Kennedy replaces O'Brien a slow must become a HBF or a Wing, and we are already slow enough!

Still hearing footy 'experts' David King saying we have the talent and it can turn quick. What a load of BS. 

Fact is we only have Cripps, Doc, Weitering, Mckay, Newman, Fisher, Jones, Walsh, Charlie and I will include SPS and McGovern as core players that have already made it or look highly likely to make it and will be there in 3 years time.  That's 11 players on a 40 player list.

The rest are made up of older guys who wont be there or kids with potential.

How is this viewed as 'we have the talent'?  It 'might' be very talented in 2 or 3 years time, but who knows.

What am i missing here?
  


    


 

Coming off their worst loss,  their three most important players back,  I'm  actually surprised it was only 93 points.

Talk about one man teams,  Mumford adds ten goals to that side.

Why do we only ever play them at their home ground,  after they come off bad losses?

They do not play in the same position, and never will!

The MC won't replace O'Brien with a Kennedy type, for Kennedy to come in the MC must be chopping Setterfield, Gibbons, Fisher, Dow, Ed, or Cripps.

You are thinking emotively and not clearly, if Kennedy replaces O'Brien a slow must become a HBF or a Wing, and we are already slow enough!

I never suggested they play the same position.

And if Kennedy gets the ball 25+ times a games, there's 25 times the opposition aren't getting it....

LOB plays outside and doesn't even provide run ffs.

Kennedy would indeed offer more playing the very same role quite frankly.

And he'd lay a few tackles that stuck.

Devastated.
My son's first live AFL game.
Direct quote walking back to the car "Im happy for the Giants people"

Broke my heart
It's probably the 2nd or 3rd worst game Ive seen from a Carlton team.
LOB, Dow, Stocker... These guys need to play VFL and not return to senior football until they are ready. We are going to kill any chance they have a being succesful.
McCreadie... Had he done anything to warrant a call up? Because he looked even less ready for a game than the last lot I mentioned.
Before anyone belts me, it is not the fault of these guys, and I feel sorry for them and for saying this. But geez, they don't look like Auskickers right now.
The skill level was atrocious last night. How can anyone get away with playing like that.
I THINK I still believe that sacking BB is not the way to go, but this club needs something drastic to happen because for all of the green shoots and honorable losses, we look a rabble.

Macradie - started playing in the 2s when Willo did. Played two games then broke down again (Achilles I think) then selected the week he was to resume in the 2s....

Goddard was by far the better option - played all season and in red hot form.

Bolts tries to get cute (or the whole MC which to me suffers from a major dose of group think) and repeatedly makes bad choices.

Picking Lochie O'Brien to play was worse than stupidity.

Macradie - started playing in the 2s when Willo did. Played two games then broke down again (Achilles I think) then selected the week he was to resume in the 2s....

Goddard was by far the better option - played all season and in red hot form.

Bolts tries to get cute (or the whole MC which to me suffers from a major dose of group think) and repeatedly makes bad choices.

Picking Lochie O'Brien to play was worse than stupidity.

x10..Not sure what we were thinking with McReadie......no real form due to lack of games, yet Goddard who was recruited as backup is ignored.
Goddard was the match for Finlayson IMO, same style of player, size, pace etc.......
LOB was a dumb pick and based on what...form?...dont think so, the non selection of Kennedy rates with other selection blunders we have made of which there have been many.

x10..Not sure what we were thinking with McReadie......no real form due to lack of games, yet Goddard who was recruited as backup is ignored.
Goddard was the match for Finlayson IMO, same style of player, size, pace etc.......
LOB was a dumb pick and based on what...form?...dont think so, the non selection of Kennedy rates with other selection blunders we have made of which there have been many.

It's been happening all year. F... it's not rocket science.

All this talk about Mumford the enforcer  ::).

I'm reminded of Harry Collier's comments about Ted Hopkins' performance in 1970 GF - "Someone should have, well, let's say, run into him accidentally".

But then I look at his stats - 7 possessions (31 hitouts).  Doesn't really have the ball long enough to be able to 'repay him in kind'.  Not that we have anyone who could currently take on this role anyway. Double eye roll.

I never suggested they play the same position.

And if Kennedy gets the ball 25+ times a games, there's 25 times the opposition aren't getting it....

LOB plays outside and doesn't even provide run ffs.

Kennedy would indeed offer more playing the very same role quite frankly.

And he'd lay a few tackles that stuck.

O'Brien spent most of the game on a flank, so if you bring Kennedy in for O'Brien how do you re-shuffle?

You're not giving the problem full consideration.

Given Ed was already a slower flanker, how many more slow flankers can we carry? Would you prefer we move someone with pace to a flank like Fisher, who also happens to be our 2nd best inside ball winner at the moment!

I accept you want Kennedy in, but the re-shuffle is not trivial given we are already top heavy with five relatively slow talls playing, in and around a relatively slow midfield which has Kreuzer and Cripps?

Don't just tell us what you want, tell us how you will make it work?

Sounding like a broken record but if we don't get decent support in their for Cripps he'll be a busted up player within 3 years from carrying our club and I won't begrudge him wanting to come home and play for someone like the Eagles who are in flag contention. We recruited Kennedy to play that role and he can't get a game ahead of blokes like O'Brien. Said it last year, O'Brien is not up to it and another high draft pick blown.

Charlie Curnow must've read all the hype because at the moment he's not worth having out there, albeit the ball didn't obviously get down there much yesterday. Thankfully I basked in the glow of the election victory and didn't want to dampen that mood by watching us get blown away yesterday which was a dead certainty. Give Curnow a run in the twos and give Kerr a crack at it....if Kerr's not up to it then get rid of him rather than clog up the list

4 years into a rebuild and we sit on the bottom of the ladder...again! It's looking highly likely we've blown the number 1 draft pick next year as well. Agree on the earlier comments about Goddard. Why get him into the club and then when your full-back goes down, don't even pick him despite being BOG in the twos a couple of weeks back and they have 3 big forwards!

We have far too many blokes that are injured all the time.....guys like Kennedy, Marchbank, Cunningham, Kreuzer, Phillips.

The mantra was 4 years of drafting kids and then load up with trades and free agents. Who in their right mind would want to come and play with Carlton as a Free Agent unless their sole reason was $$$ before retirement. It irks me to see someone like Mitch Robinson playing superb footy for Brisbane and using his body as a battering ram at every contest and we just don't have anyone remotely close to being able to play that role.

The club is on it's knees and simply can't continue on like this. It might've been offensive from Eddie but someone should be making a call to Clarkson's manager and just asking the question.

It irks me to see someone like Mitch Robinson playing superb footy for Brisbane and using his body as a battering ram at every contest and we just don't have anyone remotely close to being able to play that role.

We have the bloke that was in the leadership group that sacked him tho.
He will keep us warm at night.

We have the bloke that was in the leadership group that sacked him tho.
He will keep us warm at night.

Robinson got the chop because MM hated him after Robbo punched the ball through on the goal line, MM verbally attacked him on the boundary line and Robbo argued back, after that Robbo's goose was cooked. Any other explanations were merely a convenient excuse!

The irony being that MM would sit in a presser and tell you he always has the player's backs! ;)

O'Brien spent most of the game on a flank, so if you bring Kennedy in for O'Brien how do you re-shuffle?

You're not giving the problem full consideration.

Given Ed was already a slower flanker, how many more slow flankers can we carry? Would you prefer we move someone with pace to a flank like Fisher, who also happens to be our 2nd best inside ball winner at the moment!

I accept you want Kennedy in, but the re-shuffle is not trivial given we are already top heavy with five relatively slow talls playing, in and around a relatively slow midfield which has Kreuzer and Cripps?

Don't just tell us what you want, tell us how you will make it work?

Well indeed, heard of a word called rotation LP?

Winning the ball - you know, getting your hands on it is far more important than whether you run the 20m in 2.9 or 3.2 seconds (I note Kennedy did it in 3.13 at the Combine back when - you call that slow!  ::) )

lob seldom touches the ball nor even gets close to the ball 98% of the game....yet gets picked!

Balance you say? Kennedy plays inside and outside. LOB does neither presently.

Sounding like a broken record but if we don't get decent support in their for Cripps he'll be a busted up player within 3 years from carrying our club and I won't begrudge him wanting to come home and play for someone like the Eagles who are in flag contention. We recruited Kennedy to play that role and he can't get a game ahead of blokes like O'Brien. Said it last year, O'Brien is not up to it and another high draft pick blown.

Charlie Curnow must've read all the hype because at the moment he's not worth having out there, albeit the ball didn't obviously get down there much yesterday. Thankfully I basked in the glow of the election victory and didn't want to dampen that mood by watching us get blown away yesterday which was a dead certainty. Give Curnow a run in the twos and give Kerr a crack at it....if Kerr's not up to it then get rid of him rather than clog up the list

4 years into a rebuild and we sit on the bottom of the ladder...again! It's looking highly likely we've blown the number 1 draft pick next year as well. Agree on the earlier comments about Goddard. Why get him into the club and then when your full-back goes down, don't even pick him despite being BOG in the twos a couple of weeks back and they have 3 big forwards!

We have far too many blokes that are injured all the time.....guys like Kennedy, Marchbank, Cunningham, Kreuzer, Phillips.

The mantra was 4 years of drafting kids and then load up with trades and free agents. Who in their right mind would want to come and play with Carlton as a Free Agent unless their sole reason was $$$ before retirement. It irks me to see someone like Mitch Robinson playing superb footy for Brisbane and using his body as a battering ram at every contest and we just don't have anyone remotely close to being able to play that role.

The club is on it's knees and simply can't continue on like this. It might've been offensive from Eddie but someone should be making a call to Clarkson's manager and just asking the question.

Would be interested to know why Cuners didn't play?

Kennedy is fit, O'Brien is BB's present love child seemingly.

Again, we were putrid because the midfield went totally, abjectly missing....can't blame the back line.

I don't know but was it just me or did anyone else think Bolts looked pale and like he was staring death in the face during his presser? He looked defeated for the first time. As for Lloyd on SEN this morning, he just sounded shocked.

Dale Thomas sent straight to the tribunal for abusing an umpire....but apparently it's all okay to crunch a bloke in the ribs with your knees?

I don't know but was it just me or did anyone else think Bolts looked pale and like he was staring death in the face during his presser? He looked defeated for the first time. As for Lloyd on SEN this morning, he just sounded shocked.

Yes, agree. He looks resigned to a fairly grim end, courtesy of the Carlton Coach Killer Vortex™, which will claim its next victim pretty soon.

Dale Thomas sent straight to the tribunal for abusing an umpire....but apparently it's all okay to crunch a bloke in the ribs with your knees?

One reason why our players play the way they do. Look at an opposition player, and it's straight to the tribunal.

I don't know but was it just me or did anyone else think Bolts looked pale and like he was staring death in the face during his presser? He looked defeated for the first time.

I thought he was similar after the Norp game, but why wouldn't you, did you see Barker at 1/2-time, he was moping sweat off his forehead?

In this regard I suspect Walls has also been an epic fail, another bad decision in my opinion! The coaches need somebody to keep them up and focused as well, it's not Walls style, he an old world fire and brimstone type who is more likely to hang sh1t than offer assistance!

One reason why our players play the way they do. Look at an opposition player, and it's straight to the tribunal.

AFL as an organisation is now officially a f**king joke. A guy climbs a post and get nothing even though its a rule, then Mumford absolutely cannons into Murphy who was playing the ball, ends up in agony, goes off to hospital by ambulance with broken ribs, and will be out of the game for at least a month. And yep all good nothing to see here. What a joke!

Cripps literally taps a player with the softest jumper punch ever, nothing in it at all and comes away with a fine.

Then Thomas calls the boundary umpire a cheat and BANG off to the tribunal......with media saying he has to get a 3 weeks plus for it. On sen a caller said he should get 6!   

What the F""" is going on  >:( >:( >:(

 

AFL as an organisation is now officially a f**king joke. A guy climbs a post and get nothing even though its a rule, then Mumford absolutely cannons into Murphy who was playing the ball, ends up in agony, goes off to hospital by ambulance with broken ribs, and will be out of the game for at least a month. And yep all good nothing to see here. What a joke!

Cripps literally taps a player with the softest jumper punch ever, nothing in it at all and comes away with a fine.

Then Thomas calls the boundary umpire a cheat and BANG off to the tribunal......with media saying he has to get a 3 weeks plus for it. On sen a caller said he should get 6!   

What the F""" is going on  >:( >:( >:(

It's time MLG and others make some serious noise!!!

AFL as an organisation is now officially a f**king joke. A guy climbs a post and get nothing even though its a rule, then Mumford absolutely cannons into Murphy who was playing the ball, ends up in agony, goes off to hospital by ambulance with broken ribs, and will be out of the game for at least a month. And yep all good nothing to see here. What a joke!

Cripps literally taps a player with the softest jumper punch ever, nothing in it at all and comes away with a fine.

Then Thomas calls the boundary umpire a cheat and BANG off to the tribunal......with media saying he has to get a 3 weeks plus for it. On sen a caller said he should get 6!   

What the F""" is going on  >:( >:( >:(

As I said earlier, I never gave it a second thought, but some of the goings on at HQ level, at MRO level, at umpire level, seem very suss.

Mumford should have been cited on that Murphy incident, yep he disguised it but he went in and used the knee to damage Murphy and it was
gutless stuff and I wish our blokes had paid him back with interest.
The AFL allowed GWS to get him back because their startup tam were soft and struggling without his thuggery and given his off field stuff it should have been stopped, he is a thug who could injure some player especially a kid for life.
Elbows, Knees doesnt matter these days , its more about who is delivering the offense and how important they are to the bottom line of the AFL..

I'm assuming we don't have any site issues as folks are still posting.

After a performance like this we usually get a stack of posts.
Losing usually sees a spike in activity as posters rush to give an opinion
Maybe there are a few  feeling the 'cure'.

That about sums it up for me Lods.
I didn't even feel frustrated during or after the game. Rather felt defeated and quite disinterested ????

If this continues, I guess I'll be looking elsewhere to put my energies. Shame as I've been a proud loyal member for decades. The solution to this 'cure', is simple. Show me we're progressing. I really thought these beltings were behind us. That's the hardest part for me. I can't imagine how it felt for our friends attending the game.....

CFC. give me something to be proud of please.

Rampe got a fine for calling an umpire a "little girl"....if Thomas gets any game time for abusing an umpire then it's a joke.

Similar workings to a "Star Chamber" but in reverse.

We get collared for anything and I have no doubt that the AFL see Carlton as expendable as their interests are invested anywhere other than us.

No-one could convince me otherwise

I guess my point is that Debeor has done a number on everyone he has played on this season and its not like we didnt know what to expect?, there is never a plan B,C etc....he is the premier tagger
in the comp and Cripps is going to have more trouble than usual so why not help the poor bugger out a bit more. We cannot keep expecting him to carry the team and beat every tagger thrown his way, you have to have other plans. What is the point of recruiting Kennedy and Setterfield?....or having a midfield coach?

Daisy gave him some treatment and was promptly penalised, resulting in a shot on goal.

I agree with Kennedy. If he doesn't come in this week, then questions need to be asked (and loudly) as to why.

Mumford should have been cited on that Murphy incident, yep he disguised it but he went in and used the knee to damage Murphy and it was
gutless stuff and I wish our blokes had paid him back with interest.
The AFL allowed GWS to get him back because their startup tam were soft and struggling without his thuggery and given his off field stuff it should have been stopped, he is a thug who could injure some player especially a kid for life.
Elbows, Knees doesnt matter these days , its more about who is delivering the offense and how important they are to the bottom line of the AFL..

Just confirmed murphy has broken ribs and will be out for 2-3 weeks. How good would it be if someone from the club just mentioned it casually in a press conference that our bigger players will be practicing Mumfords technique and will put it into play, on smaller midfielders as it has a much bigger impact then a bump and best of all its legal. How good it that  ::).

Pretty obvious the AFL looks after their interests...GWS is one of them that the AFL need up there and the bend the rules whenever they can in order to assist.  
 

Just confirmed murphy has broken ribs and will be out for 2-3 weeks. How good would it be if someone from the club just mentioned it casually in a press conference that our bigger players will be practicing Mumfords technique and will put it into play, on smaller midfielders as it has a much bigger impact then a bump and best of all its legal. How good it that  ::).

Pretty obvious the AFL looks after their interests...GWS is one of them that the AFL need up there and the bend the rules whenever they can in order to assist.

I was surprised at the time that the commentators were actually calling for Mumford to be reported for 'unduly rough play'. Roos was pushing for it pretty hard. I cannot recall commentators be so full on calling for a report before.

....yet nothing.

I really don't think that the AFL cares whether we survive as a club or not tbh.

Just confirmed murphy has broken ribs and will be out for 2-3 weeks. How good would it be if someone from the club just mentioned it casually in a press conference that our bigger players will be practicing Mumfords technique and will put it into play, on smaller midfielders as it has a much bigger impact then a bump and best of all its legal. How good it that  ::).

Pretty obvious the AFL looks after their interests...GWS is one of them that the AFL need up there and the bend the rules whenever they can in order to assist.

Just listened to the real footy podcast with Caro, Niall and the other guy, and all three said they don't like the way Mumford goes about it. Made a specific point of saying that he plays his footy in a way that is dangerous to other players. Also said that the media may even play a role in this because they celebrate that type of footy.

Just listened to the real footy podcast with Caro, Niall and the other guy, and all three said they don't like the way Mumford goes about it. Made a specific point of saying that he plays his footy in a way that is dangerous to other players. Also said that the media may even play a role in this because they celebrate that type of footy.

I've heard the very same commentators laugh and praise Mumford for dirty cheap shots label Chris Yarran's punch on Chapman (they were fighting mind you) a dog act.

I've heard the very same commentators laugh and praise Mumford for dirty cheap shots label Chris Yarran's punch on Chapman (they were fighting mind you) a dog act.

Well, some people wake up eventually. The fact that they are indirectly saying we've been ripped off is amazing considering their normal stance.

Daisy gave him some treatment and was promptly penalised, resulting in a shot on goal.

I agree with Kennedy. If he doesn't come in this week, then questions need to be asked (and loudly) as to why.

Kennedy hasn’t played for a couple of weeks so he may well be off the pace

I've heard the very same commentators laugh and praise Mumford for dirty cheap shots label Chris Yarran's punch on Chapman (they were fighting mind you) a dog act.

Chapman was on his feet at least and saw that left cross coming....

Mumford won't be squealing then when somebody sinks their knee into his kidneys,  so he has to piss out a catheter for a month. Weak screwing dog.  

We owe this Clark Kent big time.

Did anyone else notice that only a few minutes after Cripps got reported for his love tap on Taranto, that he had the opportunity to tackle him and he went for it. Ran straight through him, dumped him and landed on top of him with full body weight. Taranto was left laying on the turf for a while after that and may have even been taken off the ground.

A good old fashioned, LEGAL, square up.

I love Cripps.

Yep saw that,  he has a habit of really dropping and driving the shoulder in,  like you do on the bags. That's why he won't win a Brownlow - he's too good at the
 legal square up.

Taranto didn't do anything stupid after that, he worked out quickly that a lack of respect hurts.

Just confirmed murphy has broken ribs and will be out for 2-3 weeks. How good would it be if someone from the club just mentioned it casually in a press conference that our bigger players will be practicing Mumfords technique and will put it into play, on smaller midfielders as it has a much bigger impact then a bump and best of all its legal. How good it that  ::).

Pretty obvious the AFL looks after their interests...GWS is one of them that the AFL need up there and the bend the rules whenever they can in order to assist.

I saw the Murphy injury on tv, and commented on our in game thread. I suspected he'd suffered # ribs. Don't have to be Doc Sprock to see the impact of Mumford's actions. Hence, initial comments calling for sanctions.

Like many other CFC issues it either disappears or intensifies when it gets to the AFL. It's fascinating to note that it is mostly to our disadvantage. Equity doesn't seem to prevail, even in the face of "previous cases" for sound comparison. It's almost as if there is no meaningful consistency between the nation's law and that of the AFL when it comes to CFC. I can't work it out at all.

Heal well Jonesy, Plowman, and Murphy ????

http://theland-downunder.com/2019/05/20/logiudice-i-didnt-consider-sacking-coach-bolton/?fbclid=IwAR2zsybwaR__HSC-h_fnNQVxQfAJmmFZw_SqBsx-1aKSBjMMkL_yDVhlERY

Is that the best MLG can muster?

What about a comment on the Murphy incident and others before that..... :-[ :-[

http://theland-downunder.com/2019/05/20/logiudice-i-didnt-consider-sacking-coach-bolton/?fbclid=IwAR2zsybwaR__HSC-h_fnNQVxQfAJmmFZw_SqBsx-1aKSBjMMkL_yDVhlERY

Is that the best MLG can muster?
....................................

From that article :

He said the club’s faith in Bolton stemmed from the belief success came by “sticking together”.

“There’s plenty of evidence which shows that clubs which stick together ultimately win and enjoy success,” he said.

“They’re the facts. Clubs that stick together, and I’m talking board, coaches, players, members, supporters, sponsors, I mean the nucleus of a football club, those who stick together and support ultimately enjoy great success.”

“Let’s not individualise, as a footy club it is extremely challenging … extremely,” he said. “But that’s no problem, you have to live and die by that.

“It’s a patience game and it’s easy to say and hard to do. Remember, GWS went through all this by the way.”

FINALLY !! Woo Hoo !! I can't believe I actually read that, from a CFC President.

Let's hope it's true.

Now, please sort of the umpire and MRO nonsense.

http://theland-downunder.com/2019/05/20/logiudice-i-didnt-consider-sacking-coach-bolton/?fbclid=IwAR2zsybwaR__HSC-h_fnNQVxQfAJmmFZw_SqBsx-1aKSBjMMkL_yDVhlERY

Is that the best MLG can muster?

What about a comment on the Murphy incident and othehadrs before that..... :-[ :-[

The GWS comparisons, which are used often, are a bit of  a red herring.

We don't have the draft concessions they had.
We don't have the extended list they had.
They were able to sign uncontracted AFL players for a couple of years.
They had extra salary cap room.
We ended up with their 'surplus' players.

Our development as a team will be completely different.

The GWS comparisons, which are used often, are a bit of  a red herring.

We don't have the draft concessions they had.
We don't have the extended list they had.
They were able to sign uncontracted AFL players for a couple of years.
They had extra salary cap room.
We ended up with their 'surplus' players.

Our development as a team will be completely different.

We are the low rent GWS, but the principle still applies IMO.

It's all warm and fuzzy regarding the sticking together part  but it gives the impression that they're at a loss to explain it other than 'we're young and we lack leadership.

Combining comments by club individuals from this and another article in another thread.....'

"Extremely disappointing, unacceptable performance- unacceptable result, not making excuses, very poor, hard questions need to be asked, lack of aggression, this hurts because we thought we were past it, poor skills, a performance like yesterday.... I think it spreads throughout the whole playing group and club,"

That hardly instils confidence that they're in control of the situation.

It's all warm and fuzzy regarding the sticking together part  but it gives the impression that they're at a loss to explain it other than 'we're young and we lack leadership.

Combining comments by club individuals from this and another article in another thread.....'

"Extremely disappointing, unacceptable performance- unacceptable result, not making excuses, very poor, hard questions need to be asked, lack of aggression, this hurts because we thought we were past it, poor skills, a performance like yesterday.... I think it spreads throughout the whole playing group and club,"

That hardly instils confidence that they're in control of the situation.

The club knows exactly why it's happening, and so do most (or some) on here.

The club knows exactly why it's happening, and so do most (or some) on here.

We're young and we lack leadership?
Whose fault is that?

We all understand what they're trying to do...but it's not exactly following the script.
The 'thought we were past it' comment by Docherty reflects that.

I doubt any club will ever try and duplicate the Carlton model in the future.

We've had two really bad performances in recent weeks and that's put some pressure on the club.
So a lot now depends on the next four weeks and getting things on track,.
Close results wont be enough in these games.

To me this is the important takeout from that article....

“You might think, here we go again with the repetitive ‘young list’ … I’m not making excuses, there’s no excuse for the performance and effort of yesterday, none,” LoGiudice said.
“I can give you all the boxes we’re ticking off-field, but our fans want wins. The whole club wants wins.”

Did anyone else notice that only a few minutes after Cripps got reported for his love tap on Taranto, that he had the opportunity to tackle him and he went for it. Ran straight through him, dumped him and landed on top of him with full body weight. Taranto was left laying on the turf for a while after that and may have even been taken off the ground.

A good old fashioned, LEGAL, square up.

I love Cripps.

Yep - and did you see when he tackled Mumford and put him in a little head lock. Wasn't much but a sign he didn't forget what he did to Murphy. Only thing in the game I liked - and the only sign of any response to that dog act

From that article :

He said the club’s faith in Bolton stemmed from the belief success came by “sticking together”.

“There’s plenty of evidence which shows that clubs which stick together ultimately win and enjoy success,” he said.

“They’re the facts. Clubs that stick together, and I’m talking board, coaches, players, members, supporters, sponsors, I mean the nucleus of a football club, those who stick together and support ultimately enjoy great success.”

“Let’s not individualise, as a footy club it is extremely challenging … extremely,” he said. “But that’s no problem, you have to live and die by that.

“It’s a patience game and it’s easy to say and hard to do. Remember, GWS went through all this by the way.”

FINALLY !! Woo Hoo !! I can't believe I actually read that, from a CFC President.

Let's hope it's true.

Now, please sort of the umpire and MRO nonsense.

Paul, this is where your arguments falls (entirely) flat on its face - see attachment.

As we surge towards another Spoon!

Paul, this is where your arguments falls (entirely) flat on its face - see attachment.

As we surge towards another Spoon!

Yes, I was quite aware of where GWS finished in 2015. But I've given my opinion on the differences between them and us in various posts scattered around this forum, and there's no need to repeat them here.

My feelings in the off season is that we would finish bottom 2 in 2019. Because the amount of upheaval and the number of kids, lack of senior players etc. would all take a toll. In my view this is a development / consolidating year, and in 2020 is where things get better. Clearly nobody sees any fun in that, so it's all systems go with the sack Bolton routine.

From that article :

He said the club’s faith in Bolton stemmed from the belief success came by “sticking together”.

“There’s plenty of evidence which shows that clubs which stick together ultimately win and enjoy success,” he said.

“They’re the facts. Clubs that stick together, and I’m talking board, coaches, players, members, supporters, sponsors, I mean the nucleus of a football club, those who stick together and support ultimately enjoy great success.”

“Let’s not individualise, as a footy club it is extremely challenging … extremely,” he said. “But that’s no problem, you have to live and die by that.

“It’s a patience game and it’s easy to say and hard to do. Remember, GWS went through all this by the way.”

FINALLY !! Woo Hoo !! I can't believe I actually read that, from a CFC President.

Let's hope it's true.

Now, please sort of the umpire and MRO nonsense.

There's a lot more evidence that says Bolton has no clue.
He is in his fourth year and about to win another spoon.
Silvagni should also be under the pump.
Under size midfielders don't cut it.
The club is in a bad way and we have a farking property developer running the joint, and a useless pokie owner that sits on the Gold Coast calling the shots from afar.

Could it get any worse

Yes, I was quite aware of where GWS finished in 2015. But I've given my opinion on the differences between them and us in various posts scattered around this forum, and there's no need to repeat them here.

My feelings in the off season is that we would finish bottom 2 in 2019. Because the amount of upheaval and the number of kids, lack of senior players etc. would all take a toll. In my view this is a development / consolidating year, and in 2020 is where things get better. Clearly nobody sees any fun in that, so it's all systems go with the sack Bolton routine.

Well that puts you at odds with the club. They anticipated considerably better than that.

And the assumption from the President that if you 'stick together' then you will ultimately win and enjoy success is the stuff of fairy-tales - there's as much evidence to invalidate such a claim as there is to support such a claim. You only need look at the Federal Election to know how fallacious such a wish is. Ah, if it were only that simple. And it is simplistic thinking.

Sticking together with the right plan and personnel is great - without those it makes not one jot of difference to the eventual and inevitable outcome. I'm speaking generally here.

Yes, I was quite aware of where GWS finished in 2015. But I've given my opinion on the differences between them and us in various posts scattered around this forum, and there's no need to repeat them here.

My feelings in the off season is that we would finish bottom 2 in 2019. Because the amount of upheaval and the number of kids, lack of senior players etc. would all take a toll. In my view this is a development / consolidating year, and in 2020 is where things get better. Clearly nobody sees any fun in that, so it's all systems go with the sack Bolton routine.

Paul, exactly what has Bolton done at any stage in his senior coaching career that you consider meritorious? My thoughts?

1. Fast tracked the development of numerous kids? I think Dow, Charlie Curnow, SPS, LOB - backwards.
2. Got the best out of some recycled types? Fas and Lang dwelling in the 2s
3. Got the best out of his senior players or reinvented them? Ed C as a small forward - SURELY YOU'RE TAKING THE PISS?
4. Made some match winning game day moves? Must have been asleep - missed it!

I'd go as far as FOUR big nos.

I'd go further and say a bunch of banana charged monkeys making random (clueless) decisions would have led to more wins....

The ONLY reason you wouldn't sack him - and most of his assistants - is that:

1. There is no obvious replacement; and
2. Too much egg on the faces of MLG, Judd etc.

Paul, exactly what has Bolton done at any stage in his senior coaching career that you consider meritorious? My thoughts?

1. Fast tracked the development of numerous kids? I think Dow, Charlie Curnow, SPS, LOB - backwards.
2. Got the best out of some recycled types? Fas and Lang dwelling in the 2s
3. Got the best out of his senior players or reinvented them? Ed C as a small forward - SURELY YOU'RE TAKING THE PISS?
4. Made some match winning game day moves? Must have been asleep - missed it!

I'd go as far as FOUR big nos.

I'd go further and say a bunch of banana charged monkeys making random (clueless) decisions would have led to more wins....

The ONLY reason you wouldn't sack him - and most of his assistants - is that:

1. There is no obvious replacement; and
2. Too much egg on the faces of MLG, Judd etc.

I think you miss the point though Fly.
Bolton is a teacher with a teachers back ground.
It's all about the love fest

Well that puts you at odds with the club. They anticipated considerably better than that.

And the assumption from the President that if you 'stick together' then you will ultimately win and enjoy success is the stuff of fairy-tales - there's as much evidence to invalidate such a claim as there is to support such a claim. You only need look at the Federal Election to know how fallacious such a wish is. Ah, if it were only that simple. And it is simplistic thinking.

And that's why they were prepared to trade their 1st round pick...

If we had finished 11-14th and the Crows slightly higher who would care?

I think you miss the point though Fly.
Bolton is a teacher with a teachers back ground.
It's all about the love fest

Reminds me of the story of the organisational consultant who wrote a book called "The Caring Sharing Organisation" which was a huge hit and made him millions. He decided to buy a company and actually implement his ideas - it went broke in 6 months. His new book is titled "Kicking Ass and Taking Names"!

Paul, exactly what has Bolton done at any stage in his senior coaching career that you consider meritorious? My thoughts?

1. Fast tracked the development of numerous kids? I think Dow, Charlie Curnow, SPS, LOB - backwards.
2. Got the best out of some recycled types? Fas and Lang dwelling in the 2s
3. Got the best out of his senior players or reinvented them? Ed C as a small forward - SURELY YOU'RE TAKING THE PISS?
4. Made some match winning game day moves? Must have been asleep - missed it!

I'd go as far as FOUR big nos.

I'd go further and say a bunch of banana charged monkeys making random (clueless) decisions would have led to more wins....

The ONLY reason you wouldn't sack him - and most of his assistants - is that:

1. There is no obvious replacement; and
2. Too much egg on the faces of MLG, Judd etc.

For every positive you're going to find a negative and vice versa depending on which stance you would like to take.

1.  Fast tracked Zac Fisher and the others are in second year ruts ala weitering who is playing his best footy now.  Actually this is the first time that 5 draftees from one draft crop are all looking like making the grade. 

2.  Matthew Wright played his best footy with us.  All the GWS players we have gotten are better with us than they were there.

3.  All of them have played better footy under Bolton than under malthouse. Including some that have left us and are playing elsewhere.

4. On game day, its difficult to point to any changes made that swings  the tide one way or the other and the general consensus in afl circles is that swinging things on game day is limited to pre prepared plans.  Bolton's coaching had us in winning positions for most of this season bar two matches.  That wasnt true of malthouse or rattens final years with us.  We dished up the north Melbourne equivalent in most matches.

Ratten was 11 and 11 (after a horror injury run too) when he parted ways as Coach.

Bolts?

Is that how far our standards have slipped?  ??? :-[

Ratten was 11 and 11 (after a horror injury run too) when he parted ways as Coach.

Bolts?

Is that how far our standards have slipped?  ??? :-[

Context.

We were heading to a spoon when Bolton took over the club.

Ratten had set his sights on top 4 and a premiership tilt.

At the time ratten got sacked we were a divided club who wasn't sure he should be sacked and history shows it was unlikely to have been the correct decision.

Applying any argument surrounding using rattens grounds for sacking works against anyone using it to argue why we should sack Bolton.  In fact its proof the playing group will not unite against a new coach.

I'll say it because no one else is.

The absence of lachie plowman is under rated.

Context.

We were heading to a spoon when Bolton took over the club.

Ratten had set his sights on top 4 and a premiership tilt.

At the time ratten got sacked we were a divided club who wasn't sure he should be sacked and history shows it was unlikely to have been the correct decision.

Applying any argument surrounding using rattens grounds for sacking works against anyone using it to argue why we should sack Bolton.  In fact its proof the playing group will not unite against a new coach.

Give up. You backed the wrong horse.

4 years later, with a good young side we are still heading for the spoon with a worse record than our previous dud coaches.

Give up. You backed the wrong horse.

4 years later, with a good young side we are still heading for the spoon with a worse record than our previous dud coaches.

You give up.

I've backed every horse in the hot seat and I'll give you a clue.

The reason they all lose is because our club isnt operating as it should be.

I'm not surprised by our season this year.  I actually thought we'd be less competitive even though I thought we might have won a game or two more than we have and said as much in pre season.

How about you??

In any event, the next 4 weeks will determine Bolton's future...

He should get a few back this week - Simmo, Cuners, Plow.

Let's hope they wise up at the selection table!!!!

(picking Macreadie - how bloody dumb, noting not the kid's fault)

Give up. You backed the wrong horse.

4 years later, with a good young side we are still heading for the spoon with a worse record than our previous dud coaches.

Not sure what evidence you could use to back up your assertion that we are a "good young side"? I must have missed something

Context.

We were heading to a spoon when Bolton took over the club.

Ratten had set his sights on top 4 and a premiership tilt.

At the time ratten got sacked we were a divided club who wasn't sure he should be sacked and history shows it was unlikely to have been the correct decision.

Applying any argument surrounding using rattens grounds for sacking works against anyone using it to argue why we should sack Bolton.  In fact its proof the playing group will not unite against a new coach.

Just to clarify.
We were 'deliberately' heading for an 'optimum list management' position when Bolton took over (although he had little impact on that)

Just as we were 'deliberately' looking for an 'optimum list management' position when Ratten took over.

It worked for the libs and the messiah from the shire

Just to clarify.
We were 'deliberately' heading for an 'optimum list management' position when Bolton took over (although he had little impact on that)

Just as we were 'deliberately' looking for an 'optimum list management' position when Ratten took over.

We were discussing the state of play when ratten was sacked although the climate in which both coaches started is a poignant point.  Both have started in a similar environment.   Sacking the coach not only didn't work actually worked against our footy club lifting itself out if the malaise it finds itself in yet again.

To prove a point, ratten is on record stating that the goal is top 4 in the year he got sacked in.  I am still yet to hear us state we are going to be defined by wins and losses under Bolton.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/makeorbreak-month-for-ratten-20120603-1zq5a.html

We were discussing the state of play when ratten was sacked although the climate in which both coaches started is a poignant point.  Both have started in a similar environment.   Sacking the coach not only didn't work actually worked against our footy club lifting itself out if the malaise it finds itself in yet again.

To prove a point, ratten is on record stating that the goal is top 4 in the year he got sacked in.  I am still yet to hear us state we are going to be defined by wins and losses under Bolton.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/makeorbreak-month-for-ratten-20120603-1zq5a.html

Did it work when Pagan was sacked?

We were discussing the state of play when ratten was sacked although the climate in which both coaches started is a poignant point.  Both have started in a similar environment.   Sacking the coach not only didn't work actually worked against our footy club lifting itself out if the malaise it finds itself in yet again.

To prove a point, ratten is on record stating that the goal is top 4 in the year he got sacked in. I am still yet to hear us state we are going to be defined by wins and losses under Bolton.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/makeorbreak-month-for-ratten-20120603-1zq5a.html

Is that a good thing?  :-\ :-\

Did it work when Pagan was sacked?

Nope.

It hasn't worked at all.

If anything the last time we sacked a coach that wasnt working out, and it worked was when we gave walls the lemon stars and brought back David parkin.

After that it's been one train wreck after another.

Nope.

It hasn't worked at all.

If anything the last time we sacked a coach that wasnt working out, and it worked was when we gave walls the lemon stars and brought back David parkin.

After that it's been one train wreck after another.

It's still a train wreck if you haven't noticed!

Nope.

It hasn't worked at all.

If anything the last time we sacked a coach that wasnt working out, and it worked was when we gave walls the lemon stars and brought back David parkin.

After that it's been one train wreck after another.

Oh so it’s only a premiership that means it worked.
If that’s the case, we need to find our next coach cause this bloke ain’t winning us a flag

Oh so it’s only a premiership that means it worked.
If that’s the case, we need to find our next coach cause this bloke ain’t winning us a flag

One swallow doesnt make a summer.

We spent all of one season reasonably challenging for top 4 (2011) and in that season there were signs we were not quite up to it and we finished 5th. 

We were 5 and 1 in 2012.

Our results over a longer period of time indicate that the football club was building towards that period and then during that period failed to get the future planning part of that equation correct.

This explains why we are finishing where we are over the last 5 years.  We thought a handful of first round picks would save the club last time and some of our fans are behaving the same way now and that's why they want the coach sacked. 

In reality it's much bigger than one coach.  It's the inability to stay the course on a 5 year plan for starters. 

Notice in his presser McKay stated (paraphrasing);


This answer relates to their last three performances.

Put that in context of fans saying the media commentary and our clubs silence in the media makes no difference! Fans are in complete fantasy if they think players are either indifferent or immune to the crap people like Barrett, Hunchy, Bartlett, Darcy, Ling, McGuire, etc., etc., dish out!

Our club officials choosing to staying mum are really only making an excuse for their own discomfort in the media.

I agree. I'm also sensing a shift in mood from some fans (probably many). At some stage (maybe already for some) members will call this year a write-off. But also at some stage members will question whether it is worth continuing to pour their hard earned dollars into a club that looks like it is going backwards (from finishing 18th with a % in the 60s, that's not easy to do!). The club needs to be sedning the right messages to members and supporters in these dark times, or some (many) may be lost for good. Not to mention what this is dooing to our young supporters, for some this is all they've ever known

One swallow doesnt make a summer.

We spent all of one season reasonably challenging for top 4 (2011) and in that season there were signs we were not quite up to it and we finished 5th. 

We were 5 and 1 in 2012.

Our results over a longer period of time indicate that the football club was building towards that period and then during that period failed to get the future planning part of that equation correct.

This explains why we are finishing where we are over the last 5 years.  We thought a handful of first round picks would save the club last time and some of our fans are behaving the same way now and that's why they want the coach sacked. 

In reality it's much bigger than one coach.  It's the inability to stay the course on a 5 year plan for starters.

The club still had a far more successful period under Ratten, so you have to say moving Pagan on was a success.

The club still had a far more successful period under Ratten, so you have to say moving Pagan on was a success.

The club didn't defend Ratten in the spotlight of a media barrage of weasel words, twisted facts and spin, and it's doing the very same to BB right now!

A lot has changed, but a big chunk hasn't, it's not the coach that needs changing because any coach we get in will suffer the same fate!

The club didn't defend Ratten in the spotlight of a media barrage of weasel words, twisted facts and spin, and it's doing the very same to BB right now!

A lot has changed, but a big chunk hasn't, it's not the coach that needs changing because any coach we get in will suffer the same fate!

Makes you think who is actually the project manager/director of the rebuild?? Is it being run as a project? It is not clear to me when I think about it. It was conceived, designed and authorised before the arrival of BB (he was brought on staff to be one of the implementers, as head coach) but by who? SOS has been publicly identified as another key player, as Head of Recruitement/List Manager. What exactly is Liddle's role in it? Who is the project director, if there is one?? The Judge?  Does the board act in this role? We know our team is not winning but are there many other factors in play here apart from BB's coaching? How are they being managed? It seems very murky to me.

The club still had a far more successful period under Ratten, so you have to say moving Pagan on was a success.

By selling the future to get access to the best player in the game who walked in and set standards our club was miles behind setting.

Remember the story of Judd ordering salad whilst everyone else ordered fish and chips?

We had no idea then, stuffed ratten when we probably should have given him his 5th year, and then found out he was probably the only thing working at the time.

I'm yet to concede that pagan was sacked fairly in the face of what he had to work with too, and perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess if we hadn't.

Makes you think who is actually the project manager/director of the rebuild?? Is it being run as a project? It is not clear to me when I think about it. It was conceived, designed and authorised before the arrival of BB (he was brought on staff to be one of the implementers, as head coach) but by who? SOS has been publicly identified as another key player, as Head of Recruitement/List Manager. What exactly is Liddle's role in it? Who is the project director, if there is one?? The Judge?  Does the board act in this role? We know our team is not winning but are there many other factors in play here apart from BB's coaching? How are they being managed? It seems very murky to me.

From what we've been able to gather, there was a meeting of "influential figures" around the beginning of 2014 that decided on the rebuild approach.
So at a club level it was probably MLG, Trigg, maybe McKay
SOS was targeted as the list manager (although he may have had some input prior to that) and then the coach was appointed.

The framework and direction was set before Bolton came on board.
Bolton was probably happy with the senior opportunity....but we'll never know how he would have progressed things given a free reign.

Strangely enough we were even discussing a rebuild on this forum all through the early part of 2014, so it was in the wind even back then....a year before it was official.

From what we've been able to gather, there was a meeting of "influential figures" around the beginning of 2014 that decided on the rebuild approach.
So at a club level it was probably MLG, Trigg, maybe McKay
SOS was targeted as the list manager (although he may have had some input prior to that) and then the coach was appointed.

The framework and direction was set before Bolton came on board.
Bolton was probably happy with the senior opportunity....but we'll never know how he would have progressed things given a free reign.

Strangely enough we were even discussing a rebuild on this forum all through the early part of 2014, so it was in the wind even back then....a year before it was official.

Bolton qualified well for the job, was developing young talent at Hawthorn who are a successful club, teacher...kids are his go in terms of coaching.
Anyone could have coached the Hawks for the 5 games he had them so that doesnt factor in IMO.
Unknowns were his tactical game day nous, ability to construct a brand/game style and develop leaders...jury out on all three IMHO.
Another job IMHO he has is to reduce the unhealthy reliance on Cripps.

Bolton qualified well for the job, was developing young talent at Hawthorn who are a successful club, teacher...kids are his go in terms of coaching.
Anyone could have coached the Hawks for the 5 games he had them so that doesnt factor in IMO.
Unknowns were his tactical game day nous, ability to construct a brand/game style and develop leaders...jury out on all three IMHO.
Another job IMHO he has is to reduce the unhealthy reliance on Cripps.

Couple of things re. Bolton....

Nobody came with him. Goodwin joined Melbourne - Melksham / Hibberd came across after him. No assistant coach or player joined him (as far as I remember). David Teague has a better track record of pulling blokes across with him.

Also - how much gravitas / pull does he have with attracting experienced players to the club? I'm thinking not much.

Couple of things re. Bolton....

Nobody came with him. Goodwin joined Melbourne - Melksham / Hibberd came across after him. No assistant coach or player joined him (as far as I remember). David Teague has a better track record of pulling blokes across with him.

Also - how much gravitas / pull does he have with attracting experienced players to the club? I'm thinking not much.

Fair points...I was always surprised we never had any Hawthorn fringe players cross to us, its like he had an agreement with Clarkson that when
he was allowed to leave it was on the basis he couldnt poach any players.

Fair points...I was always surprised we never had any Hawthorn fringe players cross to us, its like he had an agreement with Clarkson that when
he was allowed to leave it was on the basis he couldnt poach any players.

we've got John o'Rourke and the terrier with us in varying capacities.

Does that count for anything??

we've got John o'Rourke and the terrier with us in varying capacities.

Does that count for anything??

ORourke is a spud and JR probably needs another pre-season with the players to judge his work.