All ready this week.
We are pretenders.
Finals like pressure and we couldn't handle it. Lack of system under pressure. Dump kicks. Needed to run and carry.
It all fell apart.
Too many passengers for mine
Outs
Young and Orasio
In:
MCG and Ollie
Ollie as the sub. Kennedy in
—
I have noticed last 2 games we’ve reverted to immediately handballing back, and then a snap kick around the corner out of packs. We did the same thing early last year.
Only when we immediately went forward from a clearance did we give ourselves a chance. Need to get back to that.
Lack of run - Pitto couldnt take a mark to save his life.
Under pressure, Young can be scary bad.
How many one handed wafts at the ball.
Needs a spell
Too much left to too few.
I see it nice and clean - yeah we may win clearances but outside of that we are getting slaughtered because we persist with crabs.
Under pressure, Young can be scary bad.
How many one handed wafts at the ball.
Needs a spell
Think we’ve all seen enough of young now haven’t we? He’s 25, not 21
We didnt lose the game because of Young I can assure you of that he cleaned up both Cox and Cameron.
Plus his loopy slow bombs to the flank which get picked off every time. Another that gets caught out of position too often.
I see it nice and clean - yeah we may win clearances but outside of that we are getting slaughtered because we persist with crabs.
You are correct to a certain extent.
Even Walsh resorted to just throwing the ball onto the boot in the last qtr.
That ain't going to win big games.
Durdin, Fantasia, Pitto - not up to it.
48 - 81 tackles
9 - 18 tackles i50
Lost it there despite all the other positive indicators.
Just as we found new ways to win ugly initially. We're now finding new ways to lose.
Too much left to too many.
Lack of awareness of opponent and no systematic way to chase down or recover when they waltz around unchecked. Lack of speed shows.
Q2 and 4 are as bad as we've seen.
Vossy has lots to do if we're to be taken seriously. Consistency and attention to the basics might be good places to start 😵💫
You are correct to a certain extent.
Even Walsh resorted to just throwing the ball onto the boot in the last qtr.
That ain't going to win big games.
It wasn't Walsh either - Pitto dropping marks all night - one mark for the night from a ruckman is not good enough I reckon.
Durdin, Fantasia, Pitto - not up to it.
Pitto not up to it? FMD dunno what games youre watching.
Pies' system of ball movement, defensive plan and set up is far superior to ours. They were the better team, quite clearly so I'm afraid
Our midfield is slow, our release and spread horrible and defence has broken down completely. Other than Weeters, our backs aren't winning or halving contests consistently. Our small forwards -2 of three anyway - were $$@ing useless. And they're slow and apply no pressure. Fantasia is a joke.
Too much talk from last week and i was worried we would get ahead of ourselves which i think we did. Still not quite there with the big boys and a lot of work to do to be a genuine top 4 team. Was shown up tonight by a even professional outfit who don't rely on superstars but even contributors.
Rely too much on our big forwards and need more avenues to goal and a better spread as we are too predictable.
Not sure what voss was thinking playing the useless number 14. Serious wtf. I like voss but his persistence with a bloke that provides nothing is looking bad on many fronts imo. And starting kennedy as a sub was another call that smacks of arrogance.have another 2 hard matches ahead and play like tonight and we wont win either.
Feeling very flat after that one.
Pitto not up to it? FMD dunno what games youre watching.
Same one - but I dont care about center bounce work - can get a 9ft banana to do that - but his work around the ground and he was dead crap horrible.
That last goal looked like a set play gone wrong. Pitto was arguing with someone after it. Again - system broke down under pressure.
Pies played the big moments well, leading tackle makers were Pendlebury, Nick Daicos and Crisp which would surprise a few people but probably showed even their showboat players like Daicos worked a bit harder than we thought they would.
Both teams had a lot of non contributors but I felt some of ours did nothing at all unlike a few of their quiet stars who at least competed. Backline worries me when Weitering is out of the play and we are relying on the likes of Williams, Young, Cowan and Cincotta. Need Saad and McGovern back to provide stability and Kemp is a better player than all four I mentioned and dropping him was dumb imho. Not the end of the world and when we get our main troops back including Martin and Motlop we will be ok.
Fantasia and Durdin might not as well have been playing as their contributions were zero.....
Lost three games now because we persisted with something "unique" a la two rucks which is broken giving contracts to bananas that are just really poor AFL quality...and got beaten as we lack run on all three occassions. Here's hoping things change and fast.
Well that was putrid. How we only lost by one goal is beyond me.
So much for tough guy Voss being livid after last week and reading the riot act.
Too many arrogant softc0cks out there tonight.
Acres leaving Pendlebury in search of a goal saving highlight summed it up. And then he tried to blame his teammates for not doing the job for him.
At least Kemp can actually defend and take a grab, who was the third tall/intercept tonight?
We looked tired and slow after qtr time and pies looked fresh.
We coming from a 6 day break and pies had 8 days.
Extract from ABC this week below may have some merit.
"When a side has two days less rest than their opponent they are likely to perform just under a goal worse than expectation when they are the home team, and about half that when they are the away team. They're not big numbers on the surface, but when you're looking at hundreds or thousands of results it suggests there's something there."
Next week another 6 day break where dees have 5.
Midfield didn't do enough. Out worked. With no JDG and Mitchell we should have dominated in the middle.
38-61 inside 50's. Really lucky to be so close in the end. Can't blame the defense on this one.
We really miss Martin. He seems like a one week injury for the last 8 weeks.
Not the end of the world …
You do realise we just lost to Collingwood?
That last goal looked like a set play gone wrong. Pitto was arguing with someone after it. Again - system broke down under pressure.
Walsh just didn't honour Daicos, the Fox blokes were all over it.
Pressure rating in that 2nd qtr was 145. That's about a slow as it gets. Just a bit of consistent workrate and we win that, and a couple of the previous losses.
Ill start with some very ordinary free goals gidted to the pies by the umpires. In a 6 point game when we were on top that was important. Particularly when we dont get them back for holds.
Now going back to the teams and the systems or lack thereof. We are relying on a lot of overlap run and handball. It worked for a quarter and then the pies setup differently. Their system gives team space to hang themselves unless each disposal is perfect. We got through enoigh to keep playing that way but they were effectively able to build pressure on the ball carrier as time went on because we kept running it through the corridor and couldnt get the release kick forward.
This results in the dump kicks, and lack of ability to see free targets up field.
The pies systems in the centre are interesting. The rucks actually dont attempt to win the tap. They play to halve it and then dictate where the ball lamds ofd either ruck. They also position themselves so that the ball will land to our advantage inside the contest and theirs outside. This results in more repeat stoppages, and lack of ability to break through. You find space at the back, where their high half forwards run back to pressure the clearance. Results in more ball going their way more often.
Fundamentally they are a better drilled and smarter football team. That being said the amount of illegal holding, shepherds that they get away with is outrageous including simply dumping the ball out of a tackle.
Realistically they could have put us away with netter kicking. We could have pinched it bbut when the scores are level harry takes a good strong mark in front of moore and inexplicably kicks it across the top of fifty to no one in particular. Pies rebound. Repeat forward stoppage and the eventual setup to get daicos clear and kick the winning goal.
Its a shame, they ran that play earlier and it worked then for a snap goal. We need to get smarter in a hurry.
Pies played the big moments well, leading tackle makers were Pendlebury, Nick Daicos and Crisp which would surprise a few people but probably showed even their showboat players like Daicos worked a bit harder than we thought they would.
Both teams had a lot of non contributors but I felt some of ours did nothing at all unlike a few of their quiet stars who at least competed. Backline worries me when Weitering is out of the play and we are relying on the likes of Williams, Young, Cowan and Cincotta. Need Saad and McGovern back to provide stability and Kemp is a better player than all four I mentioned and dropping him was dumb imho. Not the end of the world and when we get our main troops back including Martin and Motlop we will be ok.
Fantasia and Durdin might not as well have been playing as their contributions were zero.....
I though Cincotta did very well on Hill. Of the Ins, I thought he gave us something, they rest were witches hats.
He and Weiters were out best defenders by a very long way. The rest were awful.
Charlie is an interesting one at the moment. Doing the extraordinary extraordinarily well but is not the basics very poorly. Fumbling, looking slow.
Pitto not up to it? FMD dunno what games youre watching.
He was well beaten tonight.
Pies played the big moments well, leading tackle makers were Pendlebury, Nick Daicos and Crisp which would surprise a few people but probably showed even their showboat players like Daicos worked a bit harder than we thought they would.
Both teams had a lot of non contributors but I felt some of ours did nothing at all unlike a few of their quiet stars who at least competed. Backline worries me when Weitering is out of the play and we are relying on the likes of Williams, Young, Cowan and Cincotta. Need Saad and McGovern back to provide stability and Kemp is a better player than all four I mentioned and dropping him was dumb imho. Not the end of the world and when we get our main troops back including Martin and Motlop we will be ok.
Fantasia and Durdin might not as well have been playing as their contributions were zero.....
Those 2 got 12 touches between then for 0.1. You can't have 2 mall forward literally not touching it.
Don't think a loss has hurt this badly since 1999 grand final loss tbh.
..and all went downhill from there.
Pies played the big moments well, leading tackle makers were Pendlebury, Nick Daicos and Crisp which would surprise a few people but probably showed even their showboat players like Daicos worked a bit harder than we thought they would.
Both teams had a lot of non contributors but I felt some of ours did nothing at all unlike a few of their quiet stars who at least competed. Backline worries me when Weitering is out of the play and we are relying on the likes of Williams, Young, Cowan and Cincotta. Need Saad and McGovern back to provide stability and Kemp is a better player than all four I mentioned and dropping him was dumb imho. Not the end of the world and when we get our main troops back including Martin and Motlop we will be ok.
Fantasia and Durdin might not as well have been playing as their contributions were zero.....
My feelings exactly
Don't think a loss has hurt this badly since 1999 grand final loss tbh.
..and all went downhill from there.
That GF loss didn't hurt so much. We spent most of the year being crap and somehow made the GF. Miracle just participating.
Tonight's loss was plainly frustrating. Work rate was poor and still just lost by 6pts. Losses pissed down the drain recently all for the same reason. A minute left and still couldn't hold on for at least a draw. After the way we played I would have taken that, but we managed to stuff that up too.
Well we should give a 3rd pick + Williams + 30% of salary to whoever wants to take him.
Enough is enough.
You do realise we just lost to Collingwood?
Big Picture view....I dont like losing to Collingwood either but we can improve our team with key players who are out injured and removing players who cant be trusted to play finals type footy when you have to. Rather lose now and find out where our weak points are than fall apart at seasons end and have these type of losses pre-finals.
Do our players good to have some pressure on them now and stop believing all the hype in the media with people like David King saying its Geelong, GWS and us as your contenders and the rest are making up the numbers...
We need to get better at playing dirty, tough finals type footy and having more contributors...
Well we should give a 3rd pick + Williams + 30% of salary to whoever wants to take him.
Enough is enough.
Well he can't defend and should not be in our backline.
The Pies are better drilled and trust each other and their systems. We are not there yet, but there is hope.
F#$k I hate losing to Collingwood and I wish we had a Nick Daicos.
Well he can't defend and should not be in our backline.
All he can do is run and kick but first year players can do that as well. If he takes a spot over one of the Campo boys I will be livid.
Think we’re due for a players meeting at Ed Curnows house. We were outworked, made poor decisions at critical moments and worryingly we seem to have lost the ability to switch the play, shift the opposition defence and then take on the corridor kick.
Our lack of depth and durability is also killing us - we simply can’t keep carrying 6 players who miss a big chunk of most years (Marchbank, McGovern, Williams, Martin, Cunningham, Fantasia) and expect to compete. 4 or more of that group have to go and we should also stamp the papers of Young whilst we are at it.
All he can do is run and kick but first year players can do that as well. If he takes a spot over one of the Campo boys I will be livid.
I agree. If he comes back from injury he can fight for Fantasia's or Durdin's spot.
I really hope we're not favourites again next week because we are truly just not there yet. Don't know if we'll ever get there with this mob but it would be a shame to waste a generational power forward combination in Harry and Charlie with the rabble that's running around them at the moment.
Having said that "H"'s last kick basically sealed the game for the filth. Could not have had a worse kick if he had of dreamed it. Although and quite honestly they were a better side than us all night. A one goal loss flattered us. If we somehow managed to steal this one, well, we're in great train robbery territory right then and there. Anyway back to our small forwards. The fact that Owies was our most effective says enough. How I yearn for Martin and even Motlop or even better still Fogarty to be back because the likes of Fantasia, Durdin and my man Owies are really just filling up space and wasting air. How the hell Cunningham comes straight back in is baffling and gee I don't get paid a lot of money but I was pretty much right. Anyone else?
Young scares me every time he gets near the ball. Very much like Liam Jones, but worse. Can't believe I'm praying for McGovern and maybe even Marchbank to get back, but there it is. That's we're we are at. Pretenders
Carlton are nowhere near it. All we are is a strain on the heart. Too many softcorks.
I have absolutely no confidence playing any other side other than Norf and the Weagles
re: Williams......a nervous player when played down back and and when you add Young plus two inexperienced defenders in Cowan and Cincotta it puts a lot of pressure on Weitering to be the glue thats holds the backline together.
I think Williams has to play on the weakest small forward and never on the last line close to goal and my preference if he has to play is on the wing where he use his skillset to carry the ball and deliver and be removed from having to mind a man.
I cant see him in the team when we have our full crew back and ditto for Fantasia and Durdin.
Fogarty + Motlop + Martin = significant forward pressure and scoreboard activity.
Owies + Fantasia + Durdin = 4 tackles. (Durdin 0 goals 0 tackles.)
We constantly look at who's missing as to the way to improve.
When martin is in and plays 2 average games we want him dropped. When his injured we want him back as another ‘dud’ is not performing. Rarely any team is injury free and apart from your high end top liners, injuries to players ranked below your top 10 are over rated imo.
If cripps weitering charlie harry are out its a big loss but when we start counting on a injury riddled blokes like martin marchbank mcgovern and even a young player like motlop to fix our problems we are kidding ourself.
Big Picture view....I dont like losing to Collingwood either but we can improve our team with key players who are out injured and removing players who cant be trusted to play finals type footy when you have to. Rather lose now and find out where our weak points are than fall apart at seasons end and have these type of losses pre-finals.
Do our players good to have some pressure on them now and stop believing all the hype in the media with people like David King saying its Geelong, GWS and us as your contenders and the rest are making up the numbers...
We need to get better at playing dirty, tough finals type footy and having more contributors...
Losing Jsos n Doc to is proving to be a massive disadvantage.
We constantly look at who's missing as to the way to improve.
When martin is in and plays 2 average games we want him dropped. When his injured we want him back as another ‘dud’ is not performing. Rarely any team is injury free and apart from your high end top liners, injuries to players ranked below your top 10 are over rated imo.
If cripps weitering charlie harry are out its a big loss but when we start counting on a injury riddled blokes like martin marchbank mcgovern and even a young player like motlop to fix our problems we are kidding ourself.
Correct, we are kidding ourselves. The "experts" tipped we would be flag contenders, but they don't know for this to be even remotely possible we have to have our best 22 on the park and firing at the same time. We do not have those 4 to 6 bit players to come in and fill up gaps when the neeed arises. Like tonight. We have limitations. We have no depth
Losing Jsos n Doc to is proving to be a massive disadvantage.
Docherty is a cool head in the heat of battle and I think we saw Pendlebury provide that for Collingwood and the goal he kicked was massive under real pressure. JSOS gives you options and you know you will get a contest from him..
Our depth isn’t enough to win big games.
It’s close but without Saad and McGovern out our backline isn’t sharp enough in its delivery forward.
Our small forwards need to nail each opportunity they have but the ones who are there at the moment don’t
Fantasia missing on three quarter time prime example also no pressure tackles to keep ball in
We will need a lot of luck with injuries to go deep
I love the Voss but No interest in showing support for him right now. Pittonet dropped a dozen marks he could have set up forward launches or settled the backline - but dropped every single one of them. No more two rucks thanks Voss.
At the end of the day, I'm just so pi55ed off that with all our limitations we couldn't beat this mob who are still running around with a quite a few geriatrics. In fact, it was one old timer kicking it to another old timer in the end that broke our backs.
No respect
We constantly look at who's missing as to the way to improve.
When martin is in and plays 2 average games we want him dropped. When his injured we want him back as another ‘dud’ is not performing. Rarely any team is injury free and apart from your high end top liners, injuries to players ranked below your top 10 are over rated imo.
If cripps weitering charlie harry are out its a big loss but when we start counting on a injury riddled blokes like martin marchbank mcgovern and even a young player like motlop to fix our problems we are kidding ourself.
We all know the reality with Martin, he will get injured, go missing at times so you just hope he is fit when needed for big games as his best makes a difference because he can change and win games but have to live with the downside of injuries and lack of consistency in games.
McGovern as that extra support for Weitering and Young/or Kemp provides that 2nd man up in contests and intercept ability that good teams have plus his kicking has depth and is usually decent. Never been a massive fan or either he or Martin but they are crucial at either end for us to be at our best and most dangerous and I think Motlop paired with Owies and Fogarty gives us our best small forward setup. They are not worldbeaters but cogs in the engine and know their roles.
We are playing sides we need to beat to be contenders. Next two games see us slip out of the top 8 and struggle to get back in. Similar to last season. Lack of cattle with talent, or lack of composure when it is required. Our next 5 games could be a painful period coming up. Worst part is that Collingwood are not at their best yet. History never repeats. Yes it does. We can only hope we don’t have additional injuries soon. This is the bitter feeling you have when Collingwood beat you at desperate times of a game. They have done it to us before.
We didnt lose the game because of Young I can assure you of that he cleaned up both Cox and Cameron.
Young had some good patches, especially early. In the last quarter he made some crucial mistakes and let Collingwood in. He doesn't seem to have a very cool head: he panics.
There were times, especially in the 3rd and 1st quarters where he looked damned good.
Next round he'll have an interesting matchup, as Melbourne are still experimenting with forwards.
We've seen what Young can do. I'd be tempted to play Sam Durdin, if he can get through tomorrow unscathed. We need to see what he can do under pressure.
McGovern will be a good in: he provides run, he kicks the ball a long way and he can take a mark.
Lack of run - Pitto couldnt take a mark to save his life.
When Pitto was in the ruck, he had the better of the Collingwood talls and he provided most of our clearances. he didn't do a lot around the ground, but he didn't let the Collingwood rucks do much either.
Pitto was our best ruck by far.
Tom had a shocker in the ruck. The few taps he got went straight to Collingwood players. Cameron, in particular, dominated him and got most of his taps against him.
In the forward line, however, Tom had a great day. He was a dangerous target all night, kicking 2 and missing one. He got the ball around the ground quite a bit, but fumbled just so much. He couldn't take a mark around the ground to save his life, tonight, and marking is one of his strengths.
I wouldn't be discarding Pitto. He had 15 possessions and 6 clearances! Granted that he wasn't as effective as he has been: Collingwood worked out some tactics that minimized our mids' effectiveness. In particular, they made Cripps play to his weaknesses instead of his strengths.
Pies' system of ball movement, defensive plan and set up is far superior to ours. They were the better team, quite clearly so I'm afraid
Our midfield is slow, our release and spread horrible and defence has broken down completely. Other than Weeters, our backs aren't winning or halving contests consistently. Our small forwards -2 of three anyway - were $$@ing useless. And they're slow and apply no pressure. Fantasia is a joke.
There system and their attack on the ball was incredible tonight. last year, we were the hunters and it made a difference. This year they were hunting us and they worked out ways of making our mids ineffective.
All of our mids got plenty of the ball, but they didn't use it well. Collingwood got more out of their mids, especially when it mattered.
Free kicks: I wondered which game the Umpires were at. They ignored so many frees, and not just ours. And the ones they paid were quite often tiggy touchwood. Not pleased with his for the 2nd week in a row.
Our small forwards, Durdin did some nice things, just not enough of them. he was much better than he has been because he didn't stuff up. That said, he's there to kick goals and he didn't get any.
Fantasia, I don't know how he gets a game. he has to go when Motlop is fit. We can't keep carrying a guy who gets less than 8 possessions each week and doesn't kick goals. His shot could have been the difference, and it wasn't that far out, but he failed.
Matt Owies kicked 3 and didn't make any shockers either, but isn't getting the ball enough.
Cottrell had his worst game for the season. He just couldn't get near the ball.
It was the run their opponents got that really hurt us.
David Cuningham didn't do enough, but the things he did do were pretty good.
With Fogarty and Motlop in, we'll keep the ball in better and have some x-factor, which we lack badly.
Well we should give a 3rd pick + Williams + 30% of salary to whoever wants to take him.
Enough is enough.
Williams disappointed tonight. He hasn't got his form back yet. maybe he needs some time in the 2's to get confidence in attacking the ball.
I'm not willing to throw the baby out just yet, but he needs to regain his touch.
Cincotta didn't provide much drive, but he controlled his opponent for all but about 2 seconds.
Cowan wasn't that bad either. He did a job, but he's not providing much drive either.
Weitering obliterated his opponents. he was the best defender on the ground by kilometres.
Nic Newman got a lot of ball, but was always under pressure.
Docherty is a cool head in the heat of battle and I think we saw Pendlebury provide that for Collingwood and the goal he kicked was massive under real pressure. JSOS gives you options and you know you will get a contest from him..
We badly miss Docherty. He is a steadying influence and he does the clutch things that win and save games.
We miss Jack Silvagni, because he can do all sorts of the jobs.
Our 3 tall forwards are not the problem in themselves, although I was bitterly disappointed in Charlie tonight. He doesn't work hard enough when he doesn't have the ball. It was really obvious. And when he could have stood up, he was beaten in one on ones and the ball left our forward line too easily. The problem with our forward setup is that our smalls are not keeping the ball in and they're not being dangerous.
H played a great game, but his last kick into the forward line probably lost us the game. Had he been able to get his kick to advantage of one of our players, we would have won the game than and there. Instead, he turned it over and the ball went up the other end. Hell, if he'd bombed it and he scored a point, it might have been enough. But just giving it away was lethal.
One of the things that was really obvious was our lack of leg speed.
Another was that we didn't tag Nick Daicos. Smother Daicos and they lose that midfield drive.
He was well beaten tonight.
Really? I didn't think so.
Well we should give a 3rd pick + Williams + 30% of salary to whoever wants to take him.
Enough is enough.
Ill second that, problem is no one will take him.
Well he can't defend and should not be in our backline.
Been tried in the midfield and that was a disaster.
re: Williams......a nervous player when played down back and and when you add Young plus two inexperienced defenders in Cowan and Cincotta it puts a lot of pressure on Weitering to be the glue thats holds the backline together.
I think Williams has to play on the weakest small forward and never on the last line close to goal and my preference if he has to play is on the wing where he use his skillset to carry the ball and deliver and be removed from having to mind a man.
I cant see him in the team when we have our full crew back and ditto for Fantasia and Durdin.
He doesn't have the engine or the brute strength to play the modern wingers role (ie Acres and Cottrell).
We badly miss Docherty. He is a steadying influence and he does the clutch things that win and save games.
We miss Jack Silvagni, because he can do all sorts of the jobs.
Our 3 tall forwards are not the problem in themselves, although I was bitterly disappointed in Charlie tonight. He doesn't work hard enough when he doesn't have the ball. It was really obvious. And when he could have stood up, he was beaten in one on ones and the ball left our forward line too easily. The problem with our forward setup is that our smalls are not keeping the ball in and they're not being dangerous.
H played a great game, but his last kick into the forward line probably lost us the game. Had he been able to get his kick to advantage of one of our players, we would have won the game than and there. Instead, he turned it over and the ball went up the other end. Hell, if he'd bombed it and he scored a point, it might have been enough. But just giving it away was lethal.
One of the things that was really obvious was our lack of leg speed.
Another was that we didn't tag Nick Daicos. Smother Daicos and they lose that midfield drive.
Spot on. Charlie is either carrying something or lazy. His attack on the ball in space or chasing someoe with the ball is non existent. I'm hoping he is injured because it was terrible. Also 1:1 contests down the wing, be in front please....
We badly miss Docherty. He is a steadying influence and he does the clutch things that win and save games.
We miss Jack Silvagni, because he can do all sorts of the jobs.
Our 3 tall forwards are not the problem in themselves, although I was bitterly disappointed in Charlie tonight. He doesn't work hard enough when he doesn't have the ball. It was really obvious. And when he could have stood up, he was beaten in one on ones and the ball left our forward line too easily. The problem with our forward setup is that our smalls are not keeping the ball in and they're not being dangerous.
H played a great game, but his last kick into the forward line probably lost us the game. Had he been able to get his kick to advantage of one of our players, we would have won the game than and there. Instead, he turned it over and the ball went up the other end. Hell, if he'd bombed it and he scored a point, it might have been enough. But just giving it away was lethal.
One of the things that was really obvious was our lack of leg speed.
Another was that we didn't tag Nick Daicos. Smother Daicos and they lose that midfield drive.
Charlie seems very clumsy at the moment, he is horribly out of form. His touch seems to have abandoned him. He used to turn blokes inside out at will. Still, hard to pot superstars when you have so many non contributors.
Think we’re due for a players meeting at Ed Curnows house. We were outworked, made poor decisions at critical moments and worryingly we seem to have lost the ability to switch the play, shift the opposition defence and then take on the corridor kick.
Our lack of depth and durability is also killing us - we simply can’t keep carrying 6 players who miss a big chunk of most years (Marchbank, McGovern, Williams, Martin, Cunningham, Fantasia) and expect to compete. 4 or more of that group have to go and we should also stamp the papers of Young whilst we are at it.
Our depth is probably ok as we push the best with half a side out. I'm more worried about the manner of losses. Been very disappointed in the workrate. In each loss we have lost it more than the other side winning it. What was the pressure rating of 145 in the 2nd qtr. Be a near record low. That was the qtr the actual game was lost. Just not switching on as we should. A decent 2nd qtr for us and the Pies were done.
A couple of those 6 we don't need but the rest, well, we need badly right now.
A pretty good effort considering we were down three players for most of the evening - small Durds, Fantasia & Williams were liabilities. And Chugga being the sub was silly.
I thought the backline, considering the number of Rottingwood forward entries and Williams gifting them goals, did really well.
Again with a fifteen minute lapse in concentration in the 2nd qtr - in hindsight, that's when we lost too much. We were 'hunted' and wilted.
Presently, we're where we belong on the ladder, but just a fleas eyelash from top 4, especially with better small forward talent - Motlop, Martin & Fogarty.
I wonder if George H was a bit crook with the flu, not his usual standard? And not enough from Cunners.
Voss didn't seem too upset in his post match presser.
Walsh, Harry, Pitto, Cripps basically played four quarters with an opponent arm around their waist like Williams did to Elliott, and not one free for it.
5 clearances in the opening quarter, then the umpires went back to the old ruck rules, that is adjudication by opinion. TDK gets penalised if he jumps at opponents like Cox started jumping at Pitto.
When Pitto was in the ruck, he had the better of the Collingwood talls and he provided most of our clearances. he didn't do a lot around the ground, but he didn't let the Collingwood rucks do much either.
Pitto was our best ruck by far.
Tom had a shocker in the ruck. The few taps he got went straight to Collingwood players. Cameron, in particular, dominated him and got most of his taps against him.
In the forward line, however, Tom had a great day. He was a dangerous target all night, kicking 2 and missing one. He got the ball around the ground quite a bit, but fumbled just so much. He couldn't take a mark around the ground to save his life, tonight, and marking is one of his strengths.
I wouldn't be discarding Pitto. He had 15 possessions and 6 clearances! Granted that he wasn't as effective as he has been: Collingwood worked out some tactics that minimized our mids' effectiveness. In particular, they made Cripps play to his weaknesses instead of his strengths.
If the whole match was played inside the centre square Pittonet would be the best in the comp but sadly for him there is a whole ground to cover.
In the cold light of day....
What a difference a goal makes. ;)
If we'd won that game narrowly, or even drawn it, the reponse would be completely different.
We didn't, and it seems to have stung....
-because it was Collingwood.
-because it was only a goal.
-because it was kicked by the opposition player who needed watching more than any other.
One of the things that stood out was that when Collingwood went forward it looked very similar to the way Geelong attacked last week so obviously there's been a bit of homework done.
But that poor defensive display is probably due in a large part to missing personnel. We're desperately missing Saad and McGovern. It also doesn't help when the pressure in the middle and foward is lacking.
There's lots of criticism of the lesser lights in our side, probably fair, but it was also our better, more experienced players who didn't really fire.
Curnow is kicking his share of goals but his second efforts are disappointing.
Pittonet started like a house on fire but once he went off with that knock his influence waned.
(It was actually around that time the Pies gained control)
Williams is not a defender. He spent most of the time watching and manhandling his opponent rather than the ball. He doesn't have the tank for mid-field, and I'm not sure what he could offer a forward line where defensive nous is also a priority for us. I did notice him looking and favouring his ankle at one stage. I'm not sure that achilles is 100%, but with a hamstring injury he's likely to miss a few anyway.
One funny (not so funny) aspect of last night's game was the number of our absolute poor kicks that were sprayed or went straight into another player. That was probably due to pressure at the ball and the inclination to just get ball to foot and hack it out.
We're in a block of games where we are playing top sides. It was always going to be a difficult period and it's been made even more so by missing key players.
We've got within a goal of the premiers, who are just hitting their straps, and we played with many of our players well below their best in terms of skills and intensity.
They were missing a few key players. We were missing more.
Lots to work on, but plenty to work with, especially as players return.
If the whole match was played inside the centre square Pittonet would be the best in the comp but sadly for him there is a whole ground to cover.
2 tackles - 1 mark for a ruck playing 70% of the game isn't good enough. Need more than just 30 taps.. lost it due to lack of run - all three losses have been the same way. Filth had three players tackling one Blue because they had superior ground coverage.. not to mention Darcy Cameron was taking important marks in his defensive half. I am not sure how many more games we need to lose in the same manner before the penny drops. Guys like Cripps & Hewett struggle when the opposing team cover the ground like they do.
Fantasia is not only not influencing games positively (cant get the ball and hit the scoreboard), his lack of heart is impacting the games negatively as well.
I saw him shirt hand/short arm it on 2-3 occasions last night.....which is a lot considering how little he was actually near the ball.
Experiment over. Can't carry him anymore.
Pitto dominated early. Went off and the pies dominated. He came back in and we held our own again. Pies nullified his influence in the second half well. Tdk was just another body in the ruck. Thankfully he kicked a couple.
Charlie did not play great, but he was probably up against his hardest opponent of the year who is more slouch, both physically and intellectually. Still kicked a couple.
We lacked run and pressure. Not surprisingly when we dropped Holland. Out of form, sure, but consistent effort and pressure should not be underestimated. Back in next week please.
Williams has a big target on his back and it was made bigger with the early frees against. They were a bit harsh and just about pushed him over the edge. His hammy will probably come as a relief for him.
Young was not terrible for his standards, but is still not performing as well as we need him too. We better have an alternative option lined up in the off-season.
I don't like a loss, but at least we learned a few things about a few people. Which is better learning now than in the finals.
2 tackles - 1 mark for a ruck playing 70% of the game isn't good enough. Need more than just 30 taps.. lost it due to lack of run - all three losses have been the same way. Filth had three players tackling one Blue because they had superior ground coverage.. not to mention Darcy Cameron was taking important marks in his defensive half. I am not sure how many more games we need to lose in the same manner before the penny drops. Guys like Cripps & Hewett struggle when the opposing team cover the ground like they do.
Pittonet got 6 clearances. That's the same number as contested beasts cripps and Hewett.
He only got 1 mark, which was actually contested, but how many times were we trying to target him directly? How many times was he outmarked by his opponent?
I'm far from convinced 2 rucks works. But I think you are blinded by what pitto actually delivers/offers.
That last goal looked like a set play gone wrong. Pitto was arguing with someone after it. Again - system broke down under pressure.
No one goal side to defend and an open paddock to run into. Listening to after match wrap up on 3AW and they blamed Walsh for getting sucked into the contest as they said Daicos was his man. Have not seem the replay as yet so not sure. Maybe someone can confirm it.
Not a great night for any of the rucks in the air
Cameron- 4 marks 2 contested
Cox- 3 Marks- 1 contested
De Koning- 5 marks - 1 contested
Pittonet-1 mark 1 contested
I suspect all were getting their hands to the ball at different stages but were spoiling each other in most of the contests.
Very strange game. I don't know what to take away from it. 10 or so lead changes, both teams held the lead for roughly the same amount of time. We were smashed in tackles and I50's, lowered our colours slightly in the clearances, everything else pretty much in our favour.
A pretty scrappy affair IMO. Neither team played great footy.
Pittonet got 6 clearances. That's the same number as contested beasts cripps and Hewett.
He only got 1 mark, which was actually contested, but how many times were we trying to target him directly? How many times was he outmarked by his opponent?
I'm far from convinced 2 rucks works. But I think you are blinded by what pitto actually delivers/offers.
5 tackles + 5 clearances is about the average for an AFL ruckman.
I just don't think he is good enough and a liability around the ground and its not based on one game.
Not a great night for any of the rucks in the air
Cameron- 4 marks 2 contested
Cox- 3 Marks- 1 contested
De Koning- 5 marks - 1 contested
Pittonet-1 mark 1 contested
I suspect all were getting their hands to the ball at different stages but were spoiling each other in most of the contests.
Yep, Pitto does need to take those marks around the ground, but no blame for the loss could be put on the shoulders of our rucks. Likewise, with the exception of Williams, our defence did well until continued pressure and too many inside 50s from Rottingwood.
I also didn't see much wrong with our midfield, apart from being a little loose at times (Walsh) and going backwards too often (Cerra).
Rottingwood came well prepared to counter any and all of our strengths. They were mentally up for the challenge and hunted us really well. Whereas, we looked a little confused at times with a concerning lack of connection around the ground and especially between midfield and forwards. Insufficient confidence?
Williams is not a deep defender. Panics. Much better further up the ground. We were very, very lucky there weren't more free kicks against him as he did 'hang on' to opponents too much. Weiters, Boyd, Gov, Newey, Saad, Cincotta, Cow... are far more reliable in deep defence.
I've banged on before about a 'hunting' mentality. When we have this, we are much, much better. Finessing, is not our thing. We do better when the attitude/focus is simple. We seem to be thinking too much. Too complex trying to implement 'layers?'
5 tackles + 5 clearances is about the average for an AFL ruckman.
According to who? Your made up assumption?
Max gawn one of the best rucks of the modern game has averaged 5 clearances or more just once in his career....this year.
Nic Nat the modern archetype averaged 5 or more clearances just 4 times in his career.
Grundy the same.
English has only averaged over 4 once.
Who are these mythical ruckman pushing up that clearance average?
Fwiw, pitto averages 7.5 this year which is elite (afl stat's determination, not mine) which means top 10% in his category (rucks). So at worst there might be 2 players ahead of him.
....and this is from the bloke people said was no good after the hitout was taken.
Give the man some credit.
We need
Better defending setup, sick of this manning grass and they get the overlap. They work it out & up the wing then nail a pass to a leading fwd, all too easy.
Better delivery to the fwds. In the Melb game we were honoring leads, but now it's back to the Bolton/Teague yrs of bombing it in.
Better output from our small fwds. PLEASE. This has been documented well.
Better 2nd efforts from our main fwd and he gets out bodied toooo easy, at least make a contest and bring the ball to ground. Big H is marking well but gets scragged in contests unfairly.
Better decision making when ball in hand. Too many blinds kicks, too many handballs in a chain that always puts the last guy under pressure because the oppo can see where the next handball is going. Bad decision making.
Better set shot goal kicking, kick through the ball, not under the ball. All shots are looping in. Need Fev as goal kicking coach.
Just be Better
I know it's probably unfair to say all this but being an armchair critic its easy to offer advice.
Sometimes with the expectation of winning I feel it's easier as a supporter to go back to the sad years and expect a loss and really enjoy the odd unexpected win.
The losses now hurt.
Charlie seems very clumsy at the moment, he is horribly out of form. His touch seems to have abandoned him. He used to turn blokes inside out at will. Still, hard to pot superstars when you have so many non contributors.
Yes. Don't think he is 100% or it maybe a mental thing. Not sure just has not been the same Charlie from last year. Then again it's not the same team from last year either. Still not to late to change it around.
According to who? Your made up assumption?
Max gawn one of the best rucks of the modern game has averaged 5 clearances or more just once in his career....this year.
Nic Nat the modern archetype averaged 5 or more clearances just 4 times in his career.
Grundy the same.
English has only averaged over 4 once.
Who are these mythical ruckman pushing up that clearance average?
Fwiw, pitto averages 7.5 this year which is elite (afl stat's determination, not mine) which means top 10% in his category (rucks). So at worst there might be 2 players ahead of him.
....and this is from the bloke people said was no good after the hitout was taken.
Give the man some credit.
Well I guess we will see things differently - you think he is a superstar because he wins clearances and I think he is a crab with only one trick in his book which is a requirement for an AFL ruckman and thats where it sits.
Yep, Pitto does need to take those marks around the ground, but no blame for the loss could be put on the shoulders of our rucks. Likewise, with the exception of Williams, our defence did well until continued pressure and too many inside 50s from Rottingwood.
I also didn't see much wrong with our midfield, apart from being a little loose at times (Walsh) and going backwards too often (Cerra).
Rottingwood came well prepared to counter any and all of our strengths. They were mentally up for the challenge and hunted us really well. Whereas, we looked a little confused at times with a concerning lack of connection around the ground and especially between midfield and forwards. Insufficient confidence?
Williams is not a deep defender. Panics. Much better further up the ground. We were very, very lucky there weren't more free kicks against him as he did 'hang on' to opponents too much. Weiters, Boyd, Gov, Newey, Saad, Cincotta, Cow... are far more reliable in deep defence.
I've banged on before about a 'hunting' mentality. When we have this, we are much, much better. Finessing, is not our thing. We do better when the attitude/focus is simple. We seem to be thinking too much. Too complex trying to implement 'layers?'
They outworked us, contested better and our one wood which is our big mids dominating the clearances didnt dominate and with them losing DeGoey and Mitchell pregame as well as McCreery during the game who was being used in the middle thats where we lost it imho and failed to capitalize on our advantage. We need to dominate clearances to make up for our lack of pace, but we had spectators and players avoiding chasing and even contests on occasion.
Williams was a terrible recruiting mistake but we are stuck with him and have to try and find him a position to make the best of his skillset, starting him deep on Elliott who is a strong mark for his inches when isolated one on one was a poor matchup and the coaching box need to take the blame as much as Williams who panicked and started holding.....the umpires of course paid those free's but totally ignored the same free's down the other end to Harry who was being grabbed by Frampton but thats swings and roundabouts in the game and hopefully Harry gets them next game..
Not blaming Pitto btw - it's the coaching group persisting with Pitto.
We need more run - Kennedy should have started the game and one of the three little spuds should have been emergency.
Would have prefered to see Binns get a full game in place of Pitto and Harry relieve ruck..
2 tackles - 1 mark for a ruck playing 70% of the game isn't good enough. Need more than just 30 taps.. lost it due to lack of run - all three losses have been the same way. Filth had three players tackling one Blue because they had superior ground coverage.. not to mention Darcy Cameron was taking important marks in his defensive half. I am not sure how many more games we need to lose in the same manner before the penny drops. Guys like Cripps & Hewett struggle when the opposing team cover the ground like they do.
He did get 15 possessions, which is at least something.
The one bright side is we are way better than this particular point last year when we were getting booed off the ground.
Want to win one of our next two games at least. I want a way better workrate too. That aspect is well down.
For kids, Moo and the Cinch impress me. Go hard, stand their man and don't step aside. With time they will contribute more drive but they do what defenders are supposed too - defend. Not sold on Boyd - lovely kick but positioning is poor at times - rolls the dice too much for mind chasing a kick.
Well I guess we will see things differently - you think he is a superstar because he wins clearances and I think he is a crab with only one trick in his book which is a requirement for an AFL ruckman and thats where it sits.
Yep, you must be a collingwood supporter because all you see is black and white.
Everyone can have an opinion, but stats show your opinion was wrong. Hitouts was his '1 trick'...fyi he had 11 hitouts to advantage. Everyone else on the ground (us and them) combined for 10....total.
Now he is elite in clearances too. Thats 2 tricks at least.
You want him to take marks, i asked who outmarked him?
Pittonet had 6 spoils last night. Weitering 6 and Young 7 rounded out Carltons top 3.
Is that 3 tricks we are up too?
He had 2 tackles, which seems poor. But that was more than 8 of his teammates, including TDK. 5 others had 2 as well. So he was bang on average for tackles as well.
He also managed 2 shots on goal, although 2 behinds, add that to his goal earlier in the year, and that exceeds his scoring power from the previous 2 years combined....in only 4 games.
Pittonet had 15 touches. Cox+Cameron had just 19 between them, and only 3 clearances.
....and he only had 68% tog.
I'm not saying Pittonet is a superstar. I'm just saying he is doing his job and its going unnoticed.
Plenty of other players deserve the finger being pointed at them before you get to Pittonet.
Hey guys off topic a bit, however thought i'd ask.
Did anyone get the Herald Sun this morning in Victoria?
My version has Thursdays night game listed but not last nights game.
Never seen that before in all of my years in reading the paper in the morning.
Hey guys off topic a bit, however thought i'd ask.
Did anyone get the Herald Sun this morning in Victoria?
My version has Thursdays night game listed but not last nights game.
Never seen that before in all of my years in reading the paper in the morning.
You must have got a very early edition by error.
It can happen when the facility knows there is going to be a disruption for whatever reason, they will bring the print run forward to make sure they can get enough copies out for subscribers.
Fantasia.
The less said about Fantasia the better, when BT starts groaning about his mate "Orrrrazzzzio" you know there is a problem!
Pitto dominated early. Went off and the pies dominated. He came back in and we held our own again. Pies nullified his influence in the second half well. Tdk was just another body in the ruck. Thankfully he kicked a couple.
I reckon that broken nose care of Cripps took a bit more out of Pitto than we suspect, but we must not ignore the change in the umpiring of the ruck contest after the first few minutes of the first. It seems the AFL can now change rules dynamically during the game.
Charlie did not play great, but he was probably up against his hardest opponent of the year who is more slouch, both physically and intellectually. Still kicked a couple.
Charlie is not in great form, but he is working at it, he always looks a bit laconic.
Williams has a big target on his back and it was made bigger with the early frees against. They were a bit harsh and just about pushed him over the edge. His hammy will probably come as a relief for him.
Why he was singled out by the umpires and not a bunch of others is a mystery, it seems if you are a Filth KPD you can hold a Carlton KPF all you like, but if a Carlton MD holds a Filth SF and you are done!
Young was not terrible for his standards, but is still not performing as well as we need him too. We better have an alternative option lined up in the off-season.
He's just not physical or reactive enough, spent a lot of time watching others run around him.
Our whole side has lost confidence, it makes them hesitant, and when they hesitate they look slow and are under more pressure using the footy than they need to be.
The trick will be to go hard regardless of making mistakes, you have to forget the past and plough ahead knowing you can never be perfect.
For me this was the only disappointing aspect of Kemp being dropped, he made some early mistakes the past few weeks, but he at least persisted and come good later in games. He won't be perfect, nobody is perfect, and we can't expect all our defenders to be like Weitering, that is just unrealistic.
Three really big problems......
(1) Absolutely no run out of the backline whatsoever - they're all too busy looking for sideways kicks so they don't have to make a big choice, and when they run out of ideas, it's a dump kick to Charlie/Harry/Tom on the wing. So easy to defend against and turnover. The inside 50's said it all last night ( 38 - 64 !). We had far more of the ball, but far less of the play......
Answer : need Saad and McGovern badly.
(2) Not only are our small forwards not getting the ball, they are physically useless - get bumped off the ball far too easily, whether it be in one-on-ones or marking contests. I have lost count of the number of simple marks defending half-backs have taken against us this year because of lack of competition. Matt Owies tries, but will never be a true marking option. Starting half-forward line for most centre bounces last night was Durdin, Owies, Fantasia, with the three big guys all standing within 15m of each other near the goal square. How does that work?
Answer : get a third mobile tall in there - I would suggest Brodie Kemp (has to be a better use of him than sending him down to the twos). Need Martin back badly, but can't expect much out of him for another 3-4 weeks. Start Charlie at 50 for some of the centre bounces to get a bigger body in there.
(3) Match Committee - WTF? Carroll and Kemp get dropped so Durdin and Fantasia get a game, and Kennedy is sent to the Sub bench? They say it about 'team balance', but Carroll or Kemp having a crack is far more balanced than two small forwards who have zero impact on the game.
Answer : pick the best 22 we can muster and go from there.
This is starting to turn into a frustrating year. We could easily lose the next 3-4 and be back in the chasing pack.
Our whole side has lost confidence, it makes them hesitant, and when they hesitate they look slow and are under more pressure using the footy than they need to be.
Is it a loss of confidence, or more the effort needed as extra responsibilities are required due to the players missing?
It could well be one leading to the other.
Players may be required to perform their own roles but also to take on a few additional tasks that would normally be undertaken by those missing.
Indeed, if that extra work starts to take its toll and a player starts to make errors they would not normally make... it can certainly affect confidence.
If a player has confidence in those around him that will have a positive effect on his own performance.
I'm not sure that's the case at present.
I tend to agree Lods. You wouldn't want players carrying that extra load over the long term. It's sustainable (more or less) over the short term. We were not playing great footy, yet scores were level with one minute to go, and it took some magic from a super player to seal the deal for them. I can understand why Voss gave the presser that he did.
I think Voss might have been eating a bit of humble pie, we went into that game with a perceived advantage that the Filth turned into a weakness.
Out coached?
I think certain supporters, tipsters and media types have been drinking the kool aid. Daniel Hoyne has been saying there are concerns around our game the last few weeks. I think in that time we have been the fifth worst team defence.
I think Voss might have been eating a bit of humble pie, we went into that game with a perceived advantage that the Filth turned into a weakness.
Out coached?
I didn't get from his presser, quite the contrary.
The persistent problem we have, and which seems to have no solution, is that too many of our good senior players are physically fragile and are unavailable for selection for long periods of time, making it impossible to have a cohesive unit.
On the rare occasions when most of them do play on the same day we are given a glimpse of what is possible. Then the injuries start again.
Unfortunately it is possible that where we are now on the ladder is as good as it gets with this list.
The persistent problem we have, and which seems to have no solution, is that too many of our good senior players are physically fragile and are unavailable for selection for long periods of time, making it impossible to have a cohesive unit.
On the rare occasions when most of them do play on the same day we are given a glimpse of what is possible. Then the injuries start again.
Unfortunately it is possible that where we are now on the ladder is as good as it gets with this list.
Spot on Macca, as soon as we get some back, they drop like flies again, and by that I mean the usual suspects.
I think Voss might have been eating a bit of humble pie, we went into that game with a perceived advantage that the Filth turned into a weakness.
Out coached?
Out coached is interesting. I cant really take it when you lose by a goal and the scores were level with 2 minutes left.
Do you get outcoached in that circumstance? Pues had extra rest too after anzac day. The second quarter was our worst and where we let the game slip but our handballs and errant kicking had more to do with it than being out coached.
Irrespective of what we say we played last seasons premiers who have started hitting their stride recently. It had danger game written all ober it from the get go.
There are plenty of small problem
Charlie Curnows contested posession rate is over 60% for a key forward it needs to be under 50%. So he is working way too hard to win his posessions... thats down to various things - not giving him space to lead into and contesting ground balls which is not his job but has to go for them as small forwards are no where near it.
Lack of run and covering the ground. Filth always had 2-3 players tackling one Blue we did not reciprocate because we didnt have the team composition to cover the ground.
After rd 8
2023: 4 1/2 wins 107%
2024: 5 wins 109%
Hopefully we don't fall as far as last year.
re: Williams......a nervous player when played down back and and when you add Young plus two inexperienced defenders in Cowan and Cincotta it puts a lot of pressure on Weitering to be the glue thats holds the backline together.
I think Williams has to play on the weakest small forward and never on the last line close to goal and my preference if he has to play is on the wing where he use his skillset to carry the ball and deliver and be removed from having to mind a man.
I cant see him in the team when we have our full crew back and ditto for Fantasia and Durdin.
What people forget is that Saad can lock down and run and create, with him out Williams is asked to do his job.
Williams copped heaps last week and was nervous on Friday as the two early frees showed.
When 1st choice players are back and guys like Williams can return to their preferred run and gun position the whole team will look and perform better.
And don’t get me started on the fb bananas who wanted to play Kemp on Cox without McGovern there to come over the top… 🤦🏼♂️
And those two early frees for scragging… didn’t seem to get paid at the other end of the ground, did they ?
1 goal loss with our cobbled together team, I’ll wear that.
And those two early frees for scragging… didn’t seem to get paid at the other end of the ground, did they ?
As I always state, it's not the free kick count that matters, it's the where and when!
Williams infringement was subtle, almost benign compared to how they dry humped Walsh well before he got anywhere near touching the pill.
What people forget is that Saad can lock down and run and create, with him out Williams is asked to do his job.
Williams copped heaps last week and was nervous on Friday as the two early frees showed.
When 1st choice players are back and guys like Williams can return to their preferred run and gun position the whole team will look and perform better.
And don’t get me started on the fb bananas who wanted to play Kemp on Cox without McGovern there to come over the top… 🤦🏼♂️
And those two early frees for scragging… didn’t seem to get paid at the other end of the ground, did they ?
1 goal loss with our cobbled together team, I’ll wear that.
Umpiring was fickled and Harry in particular was held without frees being paid.
Young on Cox was the obvious move given the height factor. I would never have dropped Kemp though.
As I said I can't see Williams being in the team with everyone fit, it's hard to carry him as just an offensive player.
Umpiring was fickled and Harry in particular was held without frees being paid.
Young on Cox was the obvious move given the height factor. I would never have dropped Kemp though.
As I said I can't see Williams being in the team with everyone fit, it's hard to carry him as just an offensive player.
I disagree, people forget the Freo game where Williams and his dash and dare won us the game.
Saad excels at his role, Williams is a poor man’s replacement but it’s temporary.
Williams has another two years to run on his contract after this year - at 29 y.o I seriously dont know where his overinflated pay cheque fits on the list as 18 y.o kids perform at same level . We need to give up a 2nd round pick to get him off the list.
After rd 8
2023: 4 1/2 wins 107%
2024: 5 wins 109%
Hopefully we don't fall as far as last year.
We lost around 6 games in a row to drop so far, and then recovering with around 9 games in a row. I can’t see any side having 9 wins from 9 games. The competition is far more even with the top 10 sides. Top 4 placing for us might get more difficult than last season. Especially if you fall 3 or 4 games behind. Voss is doing more than a reasonable job. He can’t do the work on the field. Just select the squad with some thought.
The persistent problem we have, and which seems to have no solution, is that too many of our good senior players are physically fragile and are unavailable for selection for long periods of time, making it impossible to have a cohesive unit.
On the rare occasions when most of them do play on the same day we are given a glimpse of what is possible. Then the injuries start again.
Unfortunately it is possible that where we are now on the ladder is as good as it gets with this list.
Sad but true. We've remained faithfully optimistic about our injury prone players. Add the "normal" run of inevitable injuries to this core and you have a serious problem Houston.
I disagree, people forget the Freo game where Williams and his dash and dare won us the game.
Saad excels at his role, Williams is a poor man’s replacement but it’s temporary.
NT, We will agree to disagree on ZW...with players returning it will be interesting to see if the coach has faith in him and he keeps his place..
Williams coped two umpiring clangers early and fans spent the next four quarters blaming him for everything, he wasn't that bad.
Walsh left Daicos free unchecked in F50 in the critical game ending final moment, and fans are silent!
Out coached is interesting. I cant really take it when you lose by a goal and the scores were level with 2 minutes left.
Do you get outcoached in that circumstance? Pues had extra rest too after anzac day. The second quarter was our worst and where we let the game slip but our handballs and errant kicking had more to do with it than being out coached.
Irrespective of what we say we played last seasons premiers who have started hitting their stride recently. It had danger game written all ober it from the get go.
Ok Ill call a spade a spade and shoot Bambi, Walsh either fell asleep or had the wrong mindset at that stoppage. With the scores level and close to their goal, a defensive mindset had to be first and foremost. We let that happen too many times on the night, the last one was costly.
There are plenty of small problem
Charlie Curnows contested posession rate is over 60% for a key forward it needs to be under 50%. So he is working way too hard to win his posessions... thats down to various things - not giving him space to lead into and contesting ground balls which is not his job but has to go for them as small forwards are no where near it.
Lack of run and covering the ground. Filth always had 2-3 players tackling one Blue we did not reciprocate because we didnt have the team composition to cover the ground.
For a bloke who is meant to be an aerobic beast, he doesn't get on his bike much in an attempt to run his opponent ragged (or lay a tackle heaven forebid).
For a bloke who is meant to be an aerobic beast, he doesn't get on his bike much in an attempt to run his opponent ragged (or lay a tackle heaven forebid).
He is still an aerobic beast.
Difference is he is 100kg or whatever he is.
It's the starting, stopping, changing direction that sucks up energy.
Get him on a long distance run and he'll go all day. He's like a truck on the highway, get him up to speed and he can cruise all day. Change his cruising speed and it takes a lot of time and energy to get back up to speed.
What Zac Williams needs more than anything is some luck and the BOD. No doubt his career to date at Carlton has been a little underwhelming, but that's not surprising, given the significant professional and personal setbacks he's dealt with. It's hard enough firing on all cylinders in an elite performance environment when things are going your way.
Williams coped two umpiring clangers early and fans spent the next four quarters blaming him for everything, he wasn't that bad.
Walsh left Daicos free unchecked in F50 in the critical game ending final moment, and fans are silent!
He gave away 2 or 3 frees for holding plain and simple, his opponents had him bluffed. Not a defenders a-hole.
I called out Walsh immediately and will continue to.
He gave away 2 or 3 frees for holding plain and simple, his opponents had him bluffed. Not a defenders a-hole.
I called out Walsh immediately and will continue to.
Those frees were garbage. He gave them away...
Let me kill that argument slightly.
Elliott engages his opponent to push off and create separation. They grab each other. Ump sees it pays a free kick. Watch every single duel and tell me that they aren't all identical. I watched Rhys Stanley do similar to Max gawn (and arguably worse) and it was play on.
The subjective nature here is what the problem is. They ping Williams twice and then don't pay another free like it until mason Cox gets a bit of the same.
That equated to about 3 goals. There was also the cripps handball paid holding the ball and then the jack crisp "drop" handball that was paid play on.
These things are a frequent occurrence, and I don't really debate the action I debate the consistency. It's a free in our defensive 50 but you won't find a similar free for essentially the same action in our forward 50. Why?
The blocks that occur that take walsh off daicos and at other times cowan off Elliott.
They're not illegal. Their blokes get on the bike and run around others who are there to hold illegally but no one cares about those holds.
Those frees were garbage. He gave them away...
Let me kill that argument slightly.
Elliott engages his opponent to push off and create separation. They grab each other. Ump sees it pays a free kick. Watch every single duel and tell me that they aren't all identical. I watched Rhys Stanley do similar to Max gawn (and arguably worse) and it was play on.
The subjective nature here is what the problem is. They ping Williams twice and then don't pay another free like it until mason Cox gets a bit of the same.
That equated to about 3 goals. There was also the cripps handball paid holding the ball and then the jack crisp "drop" handball that was paid play on.
These things are a frequent occurrence, and I don't really debate the action I debate the consistency. It's a free in our defensive 50 but you won't find a similar free for essentially the same action in our forward 50. Why?
The blocks that occur that take walsh off daicos and at other times cowan off Elliott.
They're not illegal. Their blokes get on the bike and run around others who are there to hold illegally but no one cares about those holds.
He put his arms around him, once you do that youre gone.
I confess to being absolutely baffled when it comes to 'holding the man,' 'dropping the ball,' 'incorrect disposal' and 'holding the ball' unless blatantly obvious. Totally confused. It used to be pretty clear cut, but now it seems there are tolerable grey areas for all these which only creates further confusion in an already difficult to adjudicate game. But with these tolerated grey areas you end up with too much individual umpire interpretation. Some times you can watch one game, then another, and swear there were different rules for each! Result? Inconsistency... the continual complaint from supporters.
Just one example: There was a time where if you took possession of the aggot and tackled, and the ball was dislodged - automatic free kick against... regardless.
The AFL needs, on Monday mornings, to explain contentious frees and non-frees to educate us so we can better understand how the game is adjudicated.
Ok Ill call a spade a spade and shoot Bambi, Walsh either fell asleep or had the wrong mindset at that stoppage. With the scores level and close to their goal, a defensive mindset had to be first and foremost. We let that happen too many times on the night, the last one was costly.
x2.
Love Walsh but his man and it cost us. Would love to be a fly on the wall when the match is reviewed internally.
Ok Ill call a spade a spade and shoot Bambi, Walsh either fell asleep or had the wrong mindset at that stoppage. With the scores level and close to their goal, a defensive mindset had to be first and foremost. We let that happen too many times on the night, the last one was costly.
Nick Daicos is quick and should have had a full time tagger or a rotating group of players on him . I don't expect my star mid to tag him..Neale, Petracca, etc Daicos himself don't tag or mind a man.
[quote author
Williams coped two umpiring clangers early and fans spent the next four quarters blaming him for everything, he wasn't that bad.
Walsh left Daicos free unchecked in F50 in the critical game ending final moment, and fans are silent!
I’ve watched that play over and over - seems to me that Cera might have also stuffed up. Tried to be too cute in picking the ball up but spent it early and blinked, fumbled it upwards which is exactly what you don’t want in those tight packs. Lost control and it was swatted forward straight into Daicos’s path.
That’s being harsh, I know, but sometimes it comes down to chaos and luck.
I'd pause getting stuck into Walshy. Yes, he stuffed up... big time. BUT, over 120 minutes of that game you'll find that many failures over the duration, across the board, got us into that critical moment in the first place.
We expect perfection from such a high achieving individual. How many times did he make a significant contribution to us scoring, or preventing an opposition score. There were too many 'moments' in that game where we failed, or other individuals just weren't up to task. Too much left to too few. Take out Fantasia & Durdin and put Chugga in the starting 22 and that error from Walsh may very well have not been so significant.
As I mentioned after the game, we played with a liability of only about 15 blokes on the field at any one time. Martin is not suited to being on the last line of defence - coaching error. Durdin and Fantasia should not (and shouldn't have been for some weeks) in the starting 22 - MC error. As for Chugga being the emergency... just fckn stupid.
18 y.o cant do what Walsh does unless you're Walsh.
18y.o can definitely do what ZW does - getting 11 free possessions from kick ins and giving away free kicks and goals is something we all can do.
Cerra was defensive side and got mauled by three Filthsters prior to ball spilling out - disappointing to see only one Blue going for that and three pies in our defensive 50
wait, wait, wait … just watched the Sunday Footy Show highlighting how they blocked Cripps at every centre bounce.
I mean, COME ON. If that sort of treatment doesn’t warrant a rule change I don’t know what does.
So the ball is NOT in play, there’s NO actual contest yet, in some instances the location was more than 10 metres away from where the ball was about to be bounced, and the opposing player did NOT have eyes for the ball.
So if you take your eyes off the ball and look at your opponent for a split second in a marking contest it’s a free every single time.
Also an instant free for “blocking” if the player’s path to a marking contest is impeded.
Why is that treated differently?
Of course, nothing new here - has been happening for years, and not just to Cripps. McCrae is portrayed as the good guy but I think this belies his Sheedy- or Clarkson-like approach to pushing things to the limit. He was even astute enough to make Pendlebury the blocker knowing he’s an ump favourite who has the footballing IQ to disguise the blocks.
Which brings me to Pendelbury’s last centre clearance - did he or did he not head straight for the boundary line?
Great observation from one commentator that doing that is win/win. If the ump pings him for “insufficient intent” it gives them time to set up behind the ball. If the ump is too gutless to make the call it’s a throw in just far enough away from goal.
He put his arms around him, once you do that youre gone.
That's how it's umpired, paying the Elliott frees is fair enough but Harry got nothing for the same holding treatment down the other end and I think that's what's irking a few fans .
That's how it's umpired, paying the Elliott frees is fair enough but Harry got nothing for the same holding treatment down the other end and I think that's what's irking a few fans .
Glad you mentioned this. The illegal tactics used on H and Charles, in particular, are, to be blunt, horrendous. And the blocking of Crippa is something I hope the club brings to the attention of the AFL. Pronto.
wait, wait, wait … just watched the Sunday Footy Show highlighting how they blocked Cripps at every centre bounce.
I mean, COME ON. If that sort of treatment doesn’t warrant a rule change I don’t know what does.
So the ball is NOT in play, there’s NO actual contest yet, in some instances the location was more than 10 metres away from where the ball was about to be bounced, and the opposing player did NOT have eyes for the ball.
So if you take your eyes off the ball and look at your opponent for a split second in a marking contest it’s a free every single time.
Also an instant free for “blocking” if the player’s path to a marking contest is impeded.
Why is that treated differently?
Of course, nothing new here - has been happening for years, and not just to Cripps. McCrae is portrayed as the good guy but I think this belies his Sheedy- or Clarkson-like approach to pushing things to the limit. He was even astute enough to make Pendlebury the blocker knowing he’s an ump favourite who has the footballing IQ to disguise the blocks.
Which brings me to Pendelbury’s last centre clearance - did he or did he not head straight for the boundary line?
Great observation from one commentator that doing that is win/win. If the ump pings him for “insufficient intent” it gives them time to set up behind the ball. If the ump is too gutless to make the call it’s a throw in just far enough away from goal.
You can bet the family home that if the same tactics were done to Pendlebury, there'd be a hue and cry... and he'd get plenty of free kicks!
So glad the footy show highlighted this. In effect, opposition clubs are using illegal tactics to blunt our strengths - I include H and Charles in this as well.
That's how it's umpired, paying the Elliott frees is fair enough but Harry got nothing for the same holding treatment down the other end and I think that's what's irking a few fans .
Not paying the ones to Harry doesnt make the Elliot ones not there. Point is he panicked everytime the ball csme to them
I confess to being absolutely baffled when it comes to 'holding the man,' 'dropping the ball,' 'incorrect disposal' and 'holding the ball' unless blatantly obvious. Totally confused. It used to be pretty clear cut, but now it seems there are tolerable grey areas for all these which only creates further confusion in an already difficult to adjudicate game. But with these tolerated grey areas you end up with too much individual umpire interpretation. Some times you can watch one game, then another, and swear there were different rules for each! Result? Inconsistency... the continual complaint from supporters.
Just one example: There was a time where if you took possession of the aggot and tackled, and the ball was dislodged - automatic free kick against... regardless.
The AFL needs, on Monday mornings, to explain contentious frees and non-frees to educate us so we can better understand how the game is adjudicated.
One way to make it easier for umpires, players and supporters alike....
Remove prior opportunity.
Less grey area equals less margin for error.
Could also lead to an overall jump in free kicks given making the odd one that goes against you less influencial overall.
Not paying the ones to Harry doesnt make the Elliot ones not there. Point is he panicked everytime the ball csme to them
Agree....I think its obvious ZW isnt comfortable back on the last line and the selection of opponent is important and while Im not defending him giving away the free's I feel the coaching staff have to wear some of the blame.
You have another nervous defender in Young plus two inexperienced players in Cowan and Cincotta and the pressure is a lot different to when you have regulars like Saad, McGovern and even Docherty down back.
Elliott needs a taller player to control his marking ability and ZW isnt a strong overhead player or suited, I'll repeat that with McGovern out I would never have dropped Kemp and either used him on Elliott or at least used him to provide cover for Williams.
Glad you mentioned this. The illegal tactics used on H and Charles, in particular, are, to be blunt, horrendous. And the blocking of Crippa is something I hope the club brings to the attention of the AFL. Pronto.
Umpires pinged Pitto for "blocking", using straight arms in the ruck, I thought that was allowed in 2024?
But shepherding Cripps off the ball is all OK with the opponents often having their back to the footy, although the bigger bodied opponents are now basically pushing back into Cripps and holding him momentarily behind their back.
He put his arms around him, once you do that youre gone.
Go back and watch the replay, Walsh is basically in a bear hug every other stoppage with arms around his waist, nada, nothing, nought!
Fans want to whack Williams, but what he did players do all the time and do not get pinged. The willingness of fans to throw rocks at Williams goes back to when he signed on, fans bitched and moaned about the dollars, but that is not Williams fault, much like it wasn't the fault of Martin or McGovern before him. But the dollars put him in the sh1thouse with many fans forever more, with the dollars promoting some weird sort of tall poppy syndrome!
Then you have the intentional out of bounds, our bloke gets pinged for a kick off the side of the boot that dribbles past 3 or 4 players, Pendlebury kicks it 50m almost directly sideways in the dying moments and gets away with it. When Pendlebury kicked there wasn't a player within 35m of where the ball headed.
These are game changing moments caused by officials not good play by an opponent.
I get our club doesn't want to be seen as whinging, but if they are raising these issues in a very public way it's never going to go our way. The privacy does nothing, we need the AFL giving fans a public explanation. When the AFL officials get sick of making up excuses, the errors will diminish.
Go back and watch the replay, Walsh is basically in a bear hug every other stoppage with arms around his waist, nada, nothing, nought!
Fans want to whack Williams, but what he did players do all the time and do not get pinged. The willingness of fans to throw rocks at Williams goes back to when he signed on, fans bitched and moaned about the dollars, but that is not Williams fault, much like it wasn't the fault of Martin or McGovern before him. But the dollars put him in the sh1thouse with many fans forever more with the dollars equating to tall poppy syndrome!
Then you have the intentional out of bounds, our bloke gets pinged for a kick off the side of the boot, Pendlebury kicks it 50m almost directly sideways in the dying moments and gets away with it.
These are game changing moments caused by officials not good play by an opponent.
I get our club doesn't want to be seen as whinging, but if they are raising these issues in a very public way it's never going to go our way. The privacy does nothing, we need the AFL giving fans a public explanation. When the AFL officials get sick of making up excuses, the errors will diminish.
I dont need to watch anything, I saw it the first time.
Go back and watch the replay, Walsh is basically in a bear hug every other stoppage with arms around his waist, nada, nothing, nought!
Fans want to whack Williams, but what he did players do all the time and do not get pinged. The willingness of fans to throw rocks at Williams goes back to when he signed on, fans bitched and moaned about the dollars, but that is not Williams fault, much like it wasn't the fault of Martin or McGovern before him. But the dollars put him in the sh1thouse with many fans forever more with the dollars equating to tall poppy syndrome!
Then you have the intentional out of bounds, our bloke gets pinged for a kick off the side of the boot, Pendlebury kicks it 50m almost directly sideways in the dying moments and gets away with it.
These are game changing moments caused by officials not good play by an opponent.
I get our club doesn't want to be seen as whinging, but if they are raising these issues in a very public way it's never going to go our way. The privacy does nothing, we need the AFL giving fans a public explanation. When the AFL officials get sick of making up excuses, the errors will diminish.
Frees were even overall and we cant mask the errors we made by blaming umpires....the Pendlebury kick was 50/50 imo and we wouldnt want that paid against us in the same situation.....if he had a man on him at the ball up we wouldnt have had an issue like when he kicked that important goal from an easy leadup mark inside 50 where some lazy Carlton opponent didnt pick him up and he was miles in the clear.
Frees were even overall and we cant mask the errors we made by blaming umpires....the Pendlebury kick was 50/50 imo and we wouldnt want that paid against us in the same situation.....if he had a man on him at the ball up we wouldnt have had an issue like when he kicked that important goal from an easy leadup mark inside 50 where some lazy Carlton opponent didnt pick him up and he was miles in the clear.
The count might have been even but the infringing wasn't and paying a free kick instead of a mark at times makes it even. Ignoring the ones that were there and paying twiggy touchwood ones are the problem.
Not paying the ones to Harry doesnt make the Elliot ones not there. Point is he panicked everytime the ball csme to them
tell me why Stanley gets away with a hold and Zac williams doesn't. Hands around the player marking happens in EVERY contest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo1A_wP81NI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo1A_wP81NI
Cant argue with Lloyd on that.
tell me why Stanley gets away with a hold and Zac williams doesn't. Hands around the player marking happens in EVERY contest.
Who's Stanley?
Collingwood's game tally for tackles, and tackles I50 were significantly above their season averages. Their tally for I50's and clearances was also well above their average.
They played out of their skins on the tackling side of things, and that level of commitment and effort is not sustainable.
Who's Stanley?
Mr and Mrs Knife's young fella.
Collingwood's game tally for tackles, and tackles I50 were significantly above their season averages. Their tally for I50's and clearances was also well above their average.
They played out of their skins on the tackling side of things, and that level of commitment and effort is not sustainable.
I thought everything about their "game" wasn't sustainable last year until it was.
Cant argue with Lloyd on that.
Yep he nailed it and I thought the midfield stuff was on the money too, they had a plan , worked us out and I thought Pendlebury was finished but he played some game on the bigger Cripps.
Yep he nailed it and I thought the midfield stuff was on the money too, they had a plan , worked us out and I thought Pendlebury was finished but he played some game on the bigger Cripps.
Charlie might be carrying a niggle that is preventing him from churning out kms or being explosive. Who knows? All I can see is that he isn't himself. Again, I dont want to highlight him when you have 7 or 8 that were very bad.
I thought everything about their "game" wasn't sustainable last year until it was.
They laid 88 tackles last night, their season average is 67.6. Their 2023 season average for tackles was 64.1. You won't be laying 88 tackles very often in one season. The link between their high tackle numbers and the I50 differential seems pretty clear in my non expert opinion.
They laid 88 tackles last night, their season average is 67.6. Their 2023 season average for tackles was 64.1. You won't be laying 88 tackles very often in one season. The link between their high tackle numbers and the I50 differential seems pretty clear in my non expert opinion.
Funny how they picked our game to lay 88 tackles.
So far this year all our losses have been on us. We have lost them ourselves alot more than the other side won them. essentially our own dumb fault. Lost very narrowly to a couple of very good sides despite playing poor footy. Essentially a lack of the intensity we had last year. What we do this year is up to us, no-one else. Play with the right intensity and we roll anyone. Hopefully this happens when the whips crack in the 2nd half of the year when it is time to peak.
Yep he nailed it and I thought the midfield stuff was on the money too, they had a plan , worked us out and I thought Pendlebury was finished but he played some game on the bigger Cripps.
Isn't this where our coaching staff should earn their loot? Counteracting opposition tactics is where game day coaching skills are a premium. Turn the tables, give them something to think about... give our blokes strategies to deal with and counteract.
If their tackle count is going through the roof... what are we going to do about it? Fight fire with fire? There must be things we could have done, I would have thought. Do we have someone in the coaching box assigned such a task - skillful, tactical changes? (Welcome back to PP, Ratts as the game day strategy coach... just the bloke we need!)
And while I'm at it... that public spray from Vossy at Cerra is an alarm bell. Not on. The first thing Vossy, as the leader, should have asked himself was, "This is on me. What haven't I got through to this bloke for him to not be going forward with disposals?" A reflection of your leadership clarity of communication, Vossy? I know there are those who believe a good old-fashioned spray is good stuff - nuh. A quiet, motivating yet firm explanation in Cerra's ear (encouragement to the positive, not berating from the negative) would have been far more productive.
So far this year all our losses have been on us. We have lost them ourselves alot more than the other side won them. essentially our own dumb fault. Lost very narrowly to a couple of very good sides despite playing poor footy. Essentially a lack of the intensity we had last year. What we do this year is up to us, no-one else. Play with the right intensity and we roll anyone. Hopefully this happens when the whips crack in the 2nd half of the year when it is time to peak.
Exactamundo. Well said.
Charlie might be carrying a niggle that is preventing him from churning out kms or being explosive. Who knows? All I can see is that he isn't himself. Again, I dont want to highlight him when you have 7 or 8 that were very bad.
I don't recall him bending over to try and pick up a ball much in recent games.
I'm sure there is probably some vision of him doing that, but recently....
If he loses a contest it's sometimes a case of 'that's all folks'.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's playing sore.
And while I'm at it... that public spray from Vossy at Cerra is an alarm bell. Not on. The first thing Vossy, as the leader, should have asked himself was, "This is on me. What haven't I got through to this bloke for him to not be going forward with disposals?" A reflection of your leadership clarity of communication, Vossy? I know there are those who believe a good old-fashioned spray is good stuff - nuh. A quiet, motivating yet firm explanation in Cerra's ear (encouragement to the positive, not berating from the negative) would have been far more productive.
Hard to know without a bit of background.
It probably stood out because it’s not something we’ve seen from Voss a lot in his time at Carlton.
It may be that he’d checked Cerra earlier in the game about a similar incident, and gave him instructions not to repeat it.
You could understand that having been told once the coach would have been upset if Cerra had gone against a specific instruction.
I don't recall him bending over to try and pick up a ball much in recent games.
I'm sure there is probably some vision of him doing that, but recently....
If he loses a contest it's sometimes a case of 'that's all folks'.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's playing sore.
Charles has become something of a (considerable) impact player. Very little for 100 minutes + 15-20 minutes of freaky stuff. Aint enough. Like others I've noticed that with aggot in hand up the field he is deadly with his inside 50 disposal. More please. And if he's playing injured, how come and what is it? Maybe his knee issues are such that there are just things he can no longer do? Are we nursing him through games? Yep, this is what happens when we don't know... speculation sets in.
Hard to know without a bit of background.
It probably stood out because it’s not something we’ve seen from Voss a lot in his time at Carlton.
It may be that he’d checked Cerra earlier in the game about a similar incident, and gave him instructions not to repeat it.
You could understand that having been told once the coach would have been upset if Cerra had gone against a specific instruction.
But then, again, you'd ask yourself how come he hasn't got it? I doubt Cerra is deliberately disobeying instructions. If he is - Magoo time.
I noticed during the game an inordinate frequency of us going backwards with handball and short kicks - probably due to Rottingwood extreme pressure -- so, how come? Do our blokes not know how to deal with extreme pressure? Perhaps a throw back to the past where we'd collapse under real pressure - can't handle being the hunted? How come we're seemingly not prepared for an opponents best?
Where has
our 'hunting' gone? For a period last year we went after aggot and opponent with commitment and ruthlessness (relentless/sustained 'hunting'). But not this year. Have we decided to just rely on the talent on our list and game plan and ignored between the lugholes stuff? 'Staying present' is one slice of the psychological pie... but there is much, much more.
So far this year all our losses have been on us. We have lost them ourselves alot more than the other side won them. essentially our own dumb fault. Lost very narrowly to a couple of very good sides despite playing poor footy. Essentially a lack of the intensity we had last year. What we do this year is up to us, no-one else. Play with the right intensity and we roll anyone. Hopefully this happens when the whips crack in the 2nd half of the year when it is time to peak.
Whilst I think we need to beat the contenders, I'd more pissed off or concerned if we dropped more games like the Adelaide one where we simply should not have.
Rh
Who's Stanley?
plays for Geelong. It happened against Max gawn in a marking contest. Hand wrapped around the back, other arms locked. Gawn got hands to the footy and Stanley wore him like a glove.
Charles has become something of a (considerable) impact player. Very little for 100 minutes + 15-20 minutes of freaky stuff. Aint enough. Like others I've noticed that with aggot in hand up the field he is deadly with his inside 50 disposal. More please. And if he's playing injured, how come and what is it? Maybe his knee issues are such that there are just things he can no longer do? Are we nursing him through games? Yep, this is what happens when we don't know... speculation sets in.
I’m sure in an interview early this year Charlie said he’s on a modified program because of his knees, it sounded like he doesn’t get encouraged to do more than light running.
I’m sure in an interview early this year Charlie said he’s on a modified program because of his knees, it sounded like he doesn’t get encouraged to do more than light running.
Thank you for that clarification, NB. Although perhaps not able to do everything he'd like to, with his freakish abilities Charles will still require the opposition's best each week... because if he does get off the leash close to goal...
Fans want to whack Williams, but what he did players do all the time and do not get pinged. The willingness of fans to throw rocks at Williams goes back to when he signed on, fans bitched and moaned about the dollars, but that is not Williams fault, much like it wasn't the fault of Martin or McGovern before him. But the dollars put him in the sh1thouse with many fans forever more, with the dollars promoting some weird sort of tall poppy syndrome!
I don't think we're throwing rocks at Williams, Spotted One. I think we're throwing rocks at our coaching. Williams is a creative player by nature so giving him a lockdown role is a throw back to our 'bad old days'... square pegs in round holes. He was set up for failure. To his credit he showed character with his determination to make the best of a bad situation and gave his all. But the damage was done; the horse had bolted.
As LAJ noted, I believe very accurately, our losses this year have been of our own making. Not umpires - though in that Pussycats game there were some howlers.
I have no doubts we're a very good bottom eight side, just a whisker from top four, a far cry from years gone by. Against very good top eight sides we either win narrowly or lose narrowly. No more blowouts.
But with such improvement comes much increased attention and expectation. Opposition sides now put a great deal of preparation into stopping us, seemingly successfully thus far. So our coaching needs to be better... obviously. (For the record I'm not in the 'sack the coach' group, or the 'Voss can't coach,' clan... nuh. Nothing could be further from my mind, and I believe nothing could be further from the truth. He's our man and I hope he's a ten year (+) senior coach at the good ship PP, but he's still learning and growing and making mistakes).
So we find ourselves putting all our faith in the return of Martin & Gov this week. Mm. The upside of a Martin return is Fantasia being sent back to the Magoos to work hard on getting his mojo back. No matter how you slice it, OF has been a liability. And small Durds would also benefit from Magoo time... but give him a midfield role, teach him to hunt the aggot, back himself, rack up possessions.
And our midfield coach needs to be smarter re how to combat opposition sides blocking & teaming against Crippa and Walshy. Hoping the umpires will help us is a folly, borderline illegal tactics are a reality. Develop a strategy, give the players tools to combat this. You can bet that the Go Dees will pour over the Rottingwood game and to a degree emulate strategies to blunt our blokes a la what was done on Friday night.
Lever and May typically dine out against our amateur delivery into F50 but we actually match up well against the dees in one area - their midfield is built around crash 'n' bash (like ours) not speed.
Lever and May typically dine out against our amateur delivery into F50.
Yes, it a nightmare to come up against them after they've torched the Handbaggers and we are on a dud roll of epic proportions!
As LAJ noted, I believe very accurately, our losses this year have been of our own making.
It's hard to ignore the game influence when you watch vision of Elliot getting rewarded at one end of the ground for a tummy tickle, while Owies gets nada for being dry humped at the other end while trying to mark!
Having said that, we are cooking the footy at the moment, our ball use must be an "F" over the last few weeks. FFS, in the dying minutes BigH had the pill in the clear with four Baggers in and around CHF with space inside the F50 arc, and he kicked it straight to the Filth 10m away from any team-mate!
On Williams, he made 3 mistakes and went at 86% DE. Acres made 10 mistakes ( Could be a season 2024 record! ) and went at 65% DE, some fans gave Acres votes while calling for William's head! :o
Acres will never be an elite ball user, but he does a power of work, breaks tackles, kicks goals etc. A great addition to the team.
This is the guy that beat us and got Collingwood the 4 points.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/05/06/how-daicos-blend-of-ball-use-and-ball-winning-ability-has-blown-away-king/
Acres will never be an elite ball user, but he does a power of work, breaks tackles, kicks goals etc. A great addition to the team.
Agreed, I'm not bagging Acres he does a power of grunt work, I'm highlighting the somewhat bizarre disparity in how fans assess player performance.
Agreed, I'm not bagging Acres he does a power of grunt work, I'm highlighting the somewhat bizarre disparity in how fans assess player performance.
Yes, fair enough. On that point we can agree.
For all the vitriol in the fans base directed towards Williams, there were two other complete brain fades that cost us goals during the game.
The first was in the critical moment letting an opponent make an extra number goal side of our defence in our D50, a player that most can't possibly catch given a step or two of head start.
The second was one of our other defenders turning traffic cone earlier in the game, as he became paralysed by the Filth tsunami sweeping around him,.
Both these incidents were moments of inaction that lead to goals free of umpire influence, and far far worse than Williams.
For all the vitriol in the fans base directed towards Williams, there were two other complete brain fades that cost us goals during the game.
The first was in the critical moment letting an opponent make an extra number goal side of our defence in our D50, a player that most can't possibly catch given a step or two of head start.
The second was one of our other defenders turning traffic cone earlier in the game, as he became paralysed by the Filth tsunami sweeping around him,.
Both these incidents were moments of inaction that lead to goals free of umpire influence, and far far worse than Williams.
You can add the Pendlebury goal and the goose who didnt pick him up which didnt require much effort given he moves in slow motion these days.....I would have dragged his opponent and sprayed him even if it was Cripps.
You can add the Pendlebury goal and the goose who didnt pick him up which didnt require much effort given he moves in slow motion these days.....I would have dragged his opponent and sprayed him even if it was Cripps.
It was Acres
It was Acres
I didn't want to name names, the vision is damning enough, and there was another.
Acres runs his arse into the ground, I get that sooner or later he needs a chop out and he might have needed one in those moments, but there are times you don't have a choice, you just have to keep going at it Robert Harvey style until you throw up your own ring!
AFL is built on the premise that it is the last person left standing/moving, that gets the spoils!
But it's not just those events that cost us, multiple times Cottrell had worked hard into open space on the fat side and we ignored him instead dropping the pill on the head of BigH or Charlie 1 out against 2 or 3! At the moment, I can't say Cottrell is more or less likely to peg a goal than Harry or Charlie, and going to Cottrell a bit more might help spread the opposition defence!
Filth did it very very well, they used the player who was on, not formulaic at all, we by comparison seem very formulaic!
I get we have Harry and Charlie, but it's making us predictable at the moment, weirdly it's TDK that seems to be giving us a bit of X-Factor, if only he could hang on to a few more of the marks he gets his hands to!
It was Acres
Looked like he had Acres of space to work in..
I didn't want to name names, the vision is damning enough, and there was another.
Acres runs his arse into the ground, I get that sooner or later he needs a chop out and he might have needed one in those moments, but there are times you don't have a choice, you just have to keep going at it Robert Harvey style until you throw up your own ring!
AFL is built on the premise that it is the last person left standing/moving, that gets the spoils!
But it's not just those events that cost us, multiple times Cottrell had worked hard into open space on the fat side and we ignored him instead dropping the pill on the head of BigH or Charlie 1 out against 2 or 3! At the moment, I can't say Cottrell is more or less likely to peg a goal than Harry or Charlie, and going to Cottrell a bit more might help spread the opposition defence!
Filth did it very very well, they used the player who was on, not formulaic at all, we by comparison seem very formulaic!
I get we have Harry and Charlie, but it's making us predictable at the moment, weirdly it's TDK that seems to be giving us a bit of X-Factor, if only he could hang on to a few more of the marks he gets his hands to!
Martin and SOS being missed as alternatives allowing Charlie in particular to be double teamed..
Martin and SOS being missed as alternatives allowing Charlie in particular to be double teamed..
True, but we still often have blokes open and fail to use them, but BigH better not complain about it after the dying minutes of last Friday, or maybe he was teaching them a lesson, "Don't do this!" ;D
Yes, it a nightmare to come up against them after they've torched the Handbaggers and we are on a dud roll of epic proportions!
We softened them up for them.
It was Acres
I'll happily argue the point and say Cunningham was closer to Pendles than anyone.
The good thing is these events are all easy fixes that have cost us games, as long as there is the will to fix them, and the fixes do not require some 3rd party to see it our way!
For all the vitriol in the fans base directed towards Williams, there were two other complete brain fades that cost us goals during the game.
The first was in the critical moment letting an opponent make an extra number goal side of our defence in our D50, a player that most can't possibly catch given a step or two of head start.
The second was one of our other defenders turning traffic cone earlier in the game, as he became paralysed by the Filth tsunami sweeping around him,.
Both these incidents were moments of inaction that lead to goals free of umpire influence, and far far worse than Williams.
its a footy forum, its not vitriol, its not personal (at least its not meant to be). Its people with opinions pointing out perceived deficiencies or f-ups by players. If you dont like it, start a Kum Ba Yah All Sunshine and Rainbows thread and live in that for the week. For years no one was allowed to point out Plowman's lack of defensive ability because he was a "much loved team mate" (until he wasn't). As Voss said, in a close game its all about the little things, small margins. A few of our blokes would love their time again and I'm sure it will be pointed out to them this week during the review, even Bambi.
The good thing is these events are all easy fixes that have cost us games, as long as there is the will to fix them, and the fixes do not require some 3rd party to see it our way!
Yes and so far, the responses have been good. Not perfect but you can see intent. Once we get key players back from injury, the cream will rise to the top, it always does.
Coaches' votes. Even they thought it was Daicos then daylight.
10 Nick Daicos (COLL)
4 Jack Crisp (COLL)
4 Harry McKay (CARL)
4 Nicholas Newman (CARL)
4 Sam Walsh (CARL)
3 Scott Pendlebury (COLL)
1 Darcy Moore (COLL)
Coaches' votes. Even they thought it was Daicos then daylight.
10 Nick Daicos (COLL)
4 Jack Crisp (COLL)
4 Harry McKay (CARL)
4 Nicholas Newman (CARL)
4 Sam Walsh (CARL)
3 Scott Pendlebury (COLL)
1 Darcy Moore (COLL)
I was surprised at how many here had Acres in their votes, I thought he made a lot of mistakes.
I was surprised at how many here had Acres in their votes, I thought he made a lot of mistakes.
I can appreciate his inclusion in the votes would be questionable. He did make errors, but he also works his ar$e off. 32 disposals, 6 tackles, 2 clearances, 415 m gained, 89% on ground. I probably overcooked the Jim Park giving him 3 votes, but he deserved votes for the effort and good things he did.
I was surprised at how many here had Acres in their votes, I thought he made a lot of mistakes.
I think that there'd be no-one to vote for if mistakes meant disqualification.
I gave Acres a vote because I thought that his hard work far outweighed the times he was caught out ... and some of those were the result of teammates not doing their bit.
We play a fairly high risk, high reward game style and it's inevitable that we'll be caught out and punished. That's OK, provided we can limit how many times it happens.
Acres did certainly make a few glaring errors but he had quite a few mates. Even so we didn't lose by much and with a bit more luck including umpires' calls we may have just got over the line even so.
Imo we were just a bit light on for critical talent, but the Pies were also missing a couple. I'm confident we could knock them off on another day.
I was surprised at how many here had Acres in their votes, I thought he made a lot of mistakes.
Walsh's mistake cost us the game but he was still =2nd BOG.
Interesting reads. I genuinely believed we had the players on the ground to beat Collingwood. Was i too optimistic? What i did see was that we played dumb football and got out coached. Dumb football, always kicking the ball into the forward line with no real purpose. Out coached, Collingwood send two extra at all the ball ups and we had no idea what to do to combat this.
Just my thoughts, bring on those Deeeees
Walsh's mistake cost us the game but he was still =2nd BOG.
I did write a lot of mistakes.
I did write a lot of mistakes.
....and the voting replicated that with Walsh getting more votes than Acres. So the system works.
Point being, everyone makes mistakes. Even 2nd BOG players.
wait, wait, wait … just watched the Sunday Footy Show highlighting how they blocked Cripps at every centre bounce.
I mean, COME ON. If that sort of treatment doesn’t warrant a rule change I don’t know what does.
So the ball is NOT in play, there’s NO actual contest yet, in some instances the location was more than 10 metres away from where the ball was about to be bounced, and the opposing player did NOT have eyes for the ball.
So if you take your eyes off the ball and look at your opponent for a split second in a marking contest it’s a free every single time.
Also an instant free for “blocking” if the player’s path to a marking contest is impeded.
Why is that treated differently?
Of course, nothing new here - has been happening for years, and not just to Cripps. McCrae is portrayed as the good guy but I think this belies his Sheedy- or Clarkson-like approach to pushing things to the limit. He was even astute enough to make Pendlebury the blocker knowing he’s an ump favourite who has the footballing IQ to disguise the blocks.
Which brings me to Pendelbury’s last centre clearance - did he or did he not head straight for the boundary line?
Great observation from one commentator that doing that is win/win. If the ump pings him for “insufficient intent” it gives them time to set up behind the ball. If the ump is too gutless to make the call it’s a throw in just far enough away from goal.
This craps me to tears most weeks (Steele from the 'aints is another who just turns and faces crippa at every bounce)
Was going to make the Pendles point, until i saw you beat me to it. They rarely call the hold, but they were definitely not going to ping Pendles. Ive made this point before, but Mccrae (and as you have pointed out Clarko), come from the same school of - hold him off the ball 100 times and you get pinged twice (or never, as was the case Fri night) - well it is worth it
Needs to be looked at. Crippa cant even scratch his nose, as he is being held that close, before the ump even thinks about bouncing the ball
Finally some are starting to see what I've been watching for weeks now, and what tipped me over the edge was that Williams got pinged for two ultra-trivial holds, holds which were almost nothing by comparison to those which Cripps or Walsh suffered all game!
If we as fans and a club do not start asking these questions, we are going to keep finding ourselves at a significant disadvantage simply because Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Hewett, Cerra are at their very best in contested football situations. And the holding / shepherding stuff affects more of their game style than it does for a fast break type player.