Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: Baggers on August 25, 2019, 10:39:40 am

Title: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Baggers on August 25, 2019, 10:39:40 am
2019 Positives & Negatives:
On field:


Players who delivered, consistently: Cripps, E Curnow, Gibson, Jones, Newman, Simpson, Thomas, Walsh (Murphy later in the year).

Biggest disappoint(s) when compared to pre season expectations: Dow, Cuningham (the King Of Cameos), Fisher, Garlett, Pickett, Kennedy, Lang, McGovern (until fitter!!!!), Polson.     Northern Blues.

Surprise packet(s): Newman, Walsh.

DCMs: Garlett, Lang, Macreadie, Polson.

Sign him up for more years, now: Cripps.

We need/get him/them: Gun mid, gun small forward.

Off field:
Most encouraging activity/results: Membership and Member initiatives. Club’s involvement in community. Getting The Terrier to the club and now the Hawthorn psychologist as well. DT appointment.

Biggest disappointment (s): Bolton’s performance and subsequent removal & Board slow to react to BBs removal. Dow and Fisher failing to improve as hoped/expected. Obviously, injuries to key personnel. Judd embarrassing the club with foolish and ill-considered public comments.

We need/get him/her/them: New coach for the Northern Blues, DT gets the assistants he wants. More involvement from past champs… should be regular visitors to the club.

2020

Acceptable minimum wins: 11.

Players MUST: start well and stop periods in games where we concede 4-7 unanswered goals. Profound concentration and on-field leadership and discipline improvement. Cease to be the nice guys of the competition... time for some ruthlessness.

Player(s) who MUST improve: Cuningham, Dow, Fisher, McGovern, McKay’s kicking & thinking, Setterfield.

(crystal ball time) Player(s) who will surprise with their improvement: Deluca, McGovern, Setterfield.

Most looking forward to beating: Richmond and Hawthorn.

(crystal ball again) Our ladder position will be: 8 – 10.

AFL should: Prevent marquee players changing clubs to top 8 clubs. 'Equalization is happening' says Gil… lying pr1ck, I say.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: flyboy77 on August 25, 2019, 10:48:49 am
Weiters has had a solid year, ditto Levi?

SPS too once moved back.

Dow and Fisher the biggest negatives for me (nb. O"Brien is a  total miss imo)
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: capcom on August 25, 2019, 11:51:48 am
2019 Positives & Negatives:
On field:


Players who delivered, consistently: Cripps, E Curnow, Gibson, Jones, Newman, Simpson, Thomas, Walsh (Murphy later in the year).

Biggest disappoint(s) when compared to pre season expectations: Dow, Cuningham (the King Of Cameos), Fisher, Garlett, Pickett, Kennedy, Lang, McGovern (until fitter!!!!), Polson.     Northern Blues.

Surprise packet(s): Newman, Walsh.

DCMs: Garlett, Lang, Macreadie, Polson.

Sign him up for more years, now: Cripps.

We need/get him/them: Gun mid, gun small forward.

Off field:
Most encouraging activity/results: Membership and Member initiatives. Club’s involvement in community. Getting The Terrier to the club and now the Hawthorn psychologist as well. DT appointment.

Biggest disappointment (s): Bolton’s performance and subsequent removal & Board slow to react to BBs removal. Dow and Fisher failing to improve as hoped/expected. Obviously, injuries to key personnel. Judd embarrassing the club with foolish and ill-considered public comments.

We need/get him/her/them: New coach for the Northern Blues, DT gets the assistants he wants. More involvement from past champs… should be regular visitors to the club.

2020

Acceptable minimum wins: 11.

Players MUST: start well and stop periods in games where we concede 4-7 unanswered goals. Profound concentration and on-field leadership and discipline improvement. Cease to be the nice guys of the competition... time for some ruthlessness.

Player(s) who MUST improve: Cuningham, Dow, Fisher, McGovern, McKay’s kicking & thinking, Setterfield.

(crystal ball time) Player(s) who will surprise with their improvement: Deluca, McGovern, Setterfield.

Most looking forward to beating: Richmond and Hawthorn.

(crystal ball again) Our ladder position will be: 8 – 10.

AFL should: Prevent marquee players changing clubs to top 8 clubs. 'Equalization is happening' says Gil… lying pr1ck, I say.


Just about exactly my summation as well.  I'd add our training focus MUST be on kicking and accountability for opponents.  Time is up for some, like it or not.  Tipungwuti and another big name for 2020.   AND WORK STARTS MONDAY!!!!

Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Micky0 on August 25, 2019, 02:36:48 pm
Positives & Negatives:
On field:

Players who delivered, consistently: Cripps, E Curnow, Weiters, Jones, Newman, Walsh

Biggest disappoint(s) when compared to pre season expectations: Fisher, Dow, McGovern,

Surprise packet(s): Newman, Weiters, Harry, SPS, Murph
DCMs: Lang

Sign him up for more years, now: Cripps.
And CRIPPS and SPS

We need/get him/them: Big bodies in mid.

Off field:
Most encouraging activity/results: Changing the coach after giving him ample time to deliver, appointing DT and NOT Lyon or Scott or Voss!!!!

Biggest disappointment (s): Judds training wheels stupid commentary

We need/get him/her/them: a little goal sneak, some tougher blokes

2020

Acceptable minimum wins: 8-10

Players MUST: play full games, none of this testing for a quarter business! Keep playing smart

Player(s) who Must improve: McGovern, Fish, Dow


(crystal ball time) Player(s) who will surprise with their improvement: McGov Fish Dow ????????

Most looking forward to beating: Richmond.

(crystal ball again) Our ladder position will be: 10.

AFL should: explain umpiring decisions, treat teams equally st tribunal, Gill to FO and get someone more suitable and less biased .
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: shawny on August 25, 2019, 03:14:35 pm
Biggest area needing improvement is skills/decision making when moving the ball into the F50. Still move it in like under 12s. Also Cripps to work thru a tag.

Weitering, Walsh and Newman major positives.

Fisher, Dow Obrien and McGovern major negatives.

2020 finish without getting in another A grade mid:12-13.

2020 finish With A grade mid and no major injuries: 8-10.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: LP on August 25, 2019, 07:13:53 pm
Fisher, Dow Obrien and McGovern major negatives.

That's very good news, the worst players are a bunch of lightweight kids, and a bloke in his 1st year at Carlton!
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: crashlander on August 26, 2019, 08:16:29 pm
2019 Positives & Negatives:
On field:


Players who delivered, consistently: Cripps, E Curnow, Gibbons, Jones, Newman, Simpson, Thomas, Walsh (Murphy later in the year).
Cripps remains dynamic, but needs to put more work into breaking tags. But he has delivered.
Ed Curnow has had one of his best years and probably still has a few more in the tank.
Gibbons has probably been something of a surprise. I didn't expect him to play as much as he did.
Jones is beginning to look like an excellent defender. Couldn't be more pleased after his horrendous start.
Newman has been everything we could hope from him.
Simpson started slowly, but has finished the year as well as anyone could hope.
Thomas: I wish we were keeping Daisy on his form this year. However, we are hoping for fitness and improvement from our other small-mid defenders.
Walsh has been everything we could hope for.
Murphy looks like he still has a few years in the tank.

Biggest disappoint(s) when compared to pre season expectations: Dow, Cuningham (the King Of Cameos), Fisher, Garlett, Pickett, Kennedy, Lang, McGovern (until fitter!!!!), Polson.     Northern Blues.
I have to agree. I was hoping from more from all of these guys.
Dow: Paddy hasn't gone forward, if anything he has gone backwards. He need the right sort of pre-season to get his body right and he needs to work on his kicking and his defensive running.
Cuningham needs to get that bit fitter, as he showed that he has what it takes.
Fisher has gone backwards. He needs to work on his strength and stamina and his kicking.
Garlett is unlikely to get a chance to improve. We need the list space.
Pickett is another huge disappointment, but his body wasn't capable of the AFL load.
Kennedy is looking better as a forward than as a midfielder, but he needs to work on his speed and fitness. He is too slow to do the job he is trying to do.
Lang is lucky if he remains on our list.
McGovern is likely to improve, if he can stay injury free.
Polson is now worrying me where I was not so worried last year. He isn't getting enough of the ball and he isn't stopping his opponents getting the ball. That leaves him in a very precarious position.
Northern Blues: If there was one area I was expecting real improvement in this season, this was it. Granted we had a couple of young speculative picks going around, but we also kept the good ex-AFL players from last year and added a couple of others. However, all of them went backwards. Our midfield went backwards, even though we often had a winning ruck. We were wracked with injuries again (when will it be otherwise?), and our youngsters didn't set the world on fire.
In fact, I find it difficult to find many positives with the NBs.
I have been generally satisfied with the coaching staff until now, but having so many guys who looked promising last year go backwards is the exact wrong thing to happen.

Surprise packet(s): Newman, Gibbons, Casboult, Walsh.

DCMs: Garlett, Lang, Macreadie, Polson.
These guys are under a lot of pressure. I do not believe all of them will survive this cull. Maybe not even half of them, depending on how ruthless we are feeling.

Sign him up for more years, now: Cripps.

We need/get him/them: [color=lime green]Gun mid, gun small forward, our next top ruckman, more speed.[/color]

Off field:
Most encouraging activity/results: Membership and Member initiatives. Club’s involvement in community. Getting The Terrier to the club and now the Hawthorn psychologist as well. DT appointment.
I agree.

Biggest disappointment (s): Bolton’s performance and subsequent removal & Board slow to react to BBs removal. Dow and Fisher failing to improve as hoped/expected. Obviously, injuries to key personnel. Judd embarrassing the club with foolish and ill-considered public comments. :(  :(  :(

We need/get him/her/them: New coach for the Northern Blues, DT gets the assistants he wants. More involvement from past champs… should be regular visitors to the club.

2020

Acceptable minimum wins: 11.
I would like to say we will win more, but with the usual (ordinary) draw, the (usual) ordinary umpiring, and no certainty of recruiting what we need, I would not want to put the bar any higher.

Players MUST: start well and stop periods in games where we concede 4-7 unanswered goals. Profound concentration and on-field leadership and discipline improvement. Cease to be the nice guys of the competition... time for some ruthlessness.  >:D  >:D  >:D

Player(s) who MUST improve: Cuningham, Dow, Fisher, McGovern, McKay’s kicking & thinking, Setterfield, Charlie Curnow's decision making.

(crystal ball time) Player(s) who will surprise with their improvement: Deluca, McGovern, Setterfield. I can pray.

Most looking forward to beating: Richmond, Geelong, Sydney and Hawthorn.

(crystal ball again) Our ladder position will be: mid range. We may challenge if we can get the personnel we need. We may do better if we get the sort of run with injuries that Brisbane has had this year.

AFL should: Prevent marquee players changing clubs to top 8 clubs. 'Equalization is happening' says Gil… lying pr1ck, I say.
I'm inclined to agree. The AFL have been making the problem worse rather than better and need to adjust the free agency issues.
The AFL also needs to address the issue of the umpiring. We cannot go on with 20 - 25% of frees being 'wrong'.
The AFL also has to start considering a 3rd Melbourne venue (Not Geelong: that hole has had millions wasted on it and it still can't cover any sort of crowd.) Princes Park is the obvious one, not just because we play there. There are options for crowd movement that the AFL could arrange for a supportive government to supply. Not some of the pipe-dreams that some others have put out: various club presidents should not be allowed access to illegal chemicals before submitting such fantasies.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: jeza on August 27, 2019, 05:08:46 am
McGovern showed just how important preseason is. Twice the player once he got his body right. I hope they all learn from that this preseason.

I just hope they all come back from the break ready to push for top 4 because that is my expectation.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Tragic on August 27, 2019, 08:30:26 am
McGovern showed just how important preseason is. Twice the player once he got his body right. I hope they all learn from that this preseason.

I just hope they all come back from the break ready to push for top 4 because that is my expectation.

he's a very different looking beast when fit.  Wasn't his fault he hurt (broke?) his back early on.  struggled ever since.  what he showed in the last 2 games was what we wanted to see from him.  very good speed and leap, and probably our best set shot for goal.  a full preseason with hopefully all the important players getting through will make a big difference next year. Luv the Gov.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Baggers on August 27, 2019, 09:21:03 am
Capt CRASH, "The AFL have been making the problem worse rather than better and need to adjust the free agency issues."

Well said, Captain.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Baggers on August 27, 2019, 09:37:04 am
Weiters has had a solid year, ditto Levi? Totally agree, re Weiters (should have included him in most consistent, above). Levi much better as a defender but do we need 3 tall defenders?? Can't see Levi being happy with playing in the NBs and called up when Weiters or Jones goes down. Enough talls up forward already.

SPS too once moved back. Agree, seems to have found a niche and is bloody good... probably helped move Daisy on.

Dow and Fisher the biggest negatives for me (nb. O"Brien is a  total miss imo - seemed to have 'jobs' which may have seen him sacrifice his natural game... showed promising glimpses, like Dow, expecting much more next year)
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: flyboy77 on August 27, 2019, 09:58:14 am
Levi would be a good fit at GWS - might be used as a pawn in the get the Rabbit game?

Or similarly, Papley et al. from Sydvegas. Or Martin from GC.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Thryleon on August 27, 2019, 10:15:19 am
Levi is a walk up start for us whilst Kreuzer is our number 1 ruckman.

Particularly with his reversal of form over the last 12 months.

Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Lods on August 27, 2019, 10:36:05 am

AFL should: Prevent marquee players changing clubs to top 8 clubs. 'Equalization is happening' says Gil… lying pr1ck, I say.
I'm inclined to agree. The AFL have been making the problem worse rather than better and need to adjust the free agency issues.


It's a great idea Crash but....
They've let the Free Agency Genie out of bottle and it will be hard to put it back.
I cant see the AFLPA agreeing to that restriction....and it would probably not survive a 'restraint of trade' action.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: flyboy77 on August 27, 2019, 10:38:32 am
Levi is a walk up start for us whilst Kreuzer is our number 1 ruckman.

Particularly with his reversal of form over the last 12 months.

Not the point. If he wants to go to guarantee more game time, go he will.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Lods on August 27, 2019, 10:49:35 am
Levi's a free agent (assuming the trigger in his contract was only on his side of the agreement and didn't tie him to the club).

The decision on any destination is basically his.
You'd like to think that would match the club's interests, but it doesn't have to.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Thryleon on August 27, 2019, 11:04:42 am
Not the point. If he wants to go to guarantee more game time, go he will.
I thought we were discussing how important Levi was to our team?


How is that not relevant?
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: DJC on August 27, 2019, 01:28:50 pm
Levi would be a good fit at GWS - might be used as a pawn in the get the Rabbit game?

Or similarly, Papley et al. from Sydvegas. Or Martin from GC.

Apparently GWS is after Sauce Jacobs.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: cookie2 on August 27, 2019, 01:38:51 pm
Apparently GWS is after Sauce Jacobs.

That was actually suggested by the match commentators over the week end.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Professer E on August 27, 2019, 03:27:12 pm
He'd suit them to a T.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: crashlander on August 27, 2019, 03:52:38 pm
It's a great idea Crash but....
They've let the Free Agency Genie out of bottle and it will be hard to put it back.
I cant see the AFLPA agreeing to that restriction....and it would probably not survive a 'restraint of trade' action.
You are 100% correct, Lods. It is a restraint of trade. However, so is the draft, the salary cap and everything else. John Elliot was going to argue that in court during the Paper Bag Episode, and he would have succeeded. Easily. And the AFL knew it and did not want to go to court. The problem then would be how to deal with situation where money determined everything.
The AFL made sure that we could not prosper that way by removing our home games from Princes Park. At that point, the stands and things that were expected to be paid off over 20 - 25 years, a huge asset, became a multi-million dollar liability overnight. I can recall Ian Collins going over the finances at the AGM, and it made the difference between a small but reasonable profit, to the club being essentially insolvent. We've been struggling financially ever since, although we appear to be finally over that hurdle.
Had John Elliot succeeded, the AFL would have found other ways to ruin us. Elliot just didn't understand that. He thought he could win and that would be it. Collins did understand that, and he thought total surrender would get us decent terms. He didn't understand just how much the AFL hated us then. They wanted us to suffer. (I am not saying that they do not hate us now either.)

Free Agency had to happen in one form or another, or the players would go to court and the AFL rules would shatter. The question always has been, is the scheme well enough designed not to disadvantage the less affluent, less well performed clubs. It wasn't. It was not well thought out at all. It would take a lot of effort to get it to that point of 'being fair'. Effort the AFL have never wanted to expend. Nor would the players, having tasted the present method, be willing to back-peddle their right enough to make a tighter scheme work. The AFL realized this quickly and simply hoped that the Salary Cap would be enough to keep excessive player movement under control. It never has been and, under the present rules, never will: teams have been getting around it for decades.
We used to the experts at that. We would pay less because we could guarantee finals. We could also guarantee a strong team and a positive culture, with little extras on the side that didn't go into pay packets directly: things like off-field job opportunities, help with study demands, etc. If we can get back to the top echelon, it is a skill we will have to re-learn, or have our list disintegrate like GWS's.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: cookie2 on August 27, 2019, 03:54:48 pm
He'd suit them to a T.

Could get more than he bargained for?

(https://d1w7fb2mkkr3kw.cloudfront.net/assets/images/book/lrg/9781/6261/9781626172036.jpg)
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: crashlander on August 27, 2019, 03:59:51 pm
Apparently GWS is after Sauce Jacobs.
Sauce wouldn't be a long term replacement, but he would probably be the difference. Had GWS had a top ruckman, they would have won a flag by now. They were damned close with a half fit Mumford. (Mind you, they need a better coach as well, but that is another tale :) .)
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Lods on August 27, 2019, 04:40:07 pm
You are 100% correct, Lods. It is a restraint of trade. However, so is the draft, the salary cap and everything else. John Elliot was going to argue that in court during the Paper Bag Episode, and he would have succeeded. Easily. And the AFL knew it and did not want to go to court. The problem then would be how to deal with situation where money determined everything.
The AFL made sure that we could not prosper that way by removing our home games from Princes Park. At that point, the stands and things that were expected to be paid off over 20 - 25 years, a huge asset, became a multi-million dollar liability overnight. I can recall Ian Collins going over the finances at the AGM, and it made the difference between a small but reasonable profit, to the club being essentially insolvent. We've been struggling financially ever since, although we appear to be finally over that hurdle.
Had John Elliot succeeded, the AFL would have found other ways to ruin us. Elliot just didn't understand that. He thought he could win and that would be it. Collins did understand that, and he thought total surrender would get us decent terms. He didn't understand just how much the AFL hated us then. They wanted us to suffer. (I am not saying that they do not hate us now either.)

Free Agency had to happen in one form or another, or the players would go to court and the AFL rules would shatter. The question always has been, is the scheme well enough designed not to disadvantage the less affluent, less well performed clubs. It wasn't. It was not well thought out at all. It would take a lot of effort to get it to that point of 'being fair'. Effort the AFL have never wanted to expend. Nor would the players, having tasted the present method, be willing to back-peddle their right enough to make a tighter scheme work. The AFL realized this quickly and simply hoped that the Salary Cap would be enough to keep excessive player movement under control. It never has been and, under the present rules, never will: teams have been getting around it for decades.
We used to the experts at that. We would pay less because we could guarantee finals. We could also guarantee a strong team and a positive culture, with little extras on the side that didn't go into pay packets directly: things like off-field job opportunities, help with study demands, etc. If we can get back to the top echelon, it is a skill we will have to re-learn, or have our list disintegrate like GWS's.

It's an interesting discussion...and I'm probably arguing against my initial thoughts.

There is a strong argument that had Elliott taken the draft to court under restraint of trade he wouldn't necessarily have succeeded.
It's argued on the very basis that the draft is designed to equalise the competition.

http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ANZSportsLawJl/2006/5.pdf

Free agency as it currently exists wouldn't necessarily pass that equalisation test.
It's actually driving things in the opposite direction.
But the players are comfortable with free agency so are unlikely to kick up a fuss.
If you limited salary and destination for free agents to only the bottom half of the competition that wouldn't be as attractive and would likely result in a challenge to the system.

The AFL would then have to hope that a decision to limit free agents to a certain group of clubs would hold up on the basis of it being designed to even the competition.


Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: capcom on August 27, 2019, 04:59:49 pm
The ACCC and other relevant legislation is a nightmare to walk through.  But there are ways around it.  Trust me on that one.  Fels and Samuel found out
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: laj on August 27, 2019, 05:22:35 pm
It's an interesting discussion...and I'm probably arguing against my initial thoughts.

There is a strong argument that had Elliott taken the draft to court under restraint of trade he wouldn't necessarily have succeeded.
It's argued on the very basis that the draft is designed to equalise the competition.

http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ANZSportsLawJl/2006/5.pdf

Free agency as it currently exists wouldn't necessarily pass that equalisation test.
It's actually driving things in the opposite direction.
But the players are comfortable with free agency so are unlikely to kick up a fuss.
If you limited salary and destination for free agents to only the bottom half of the competition that wouldn't be as attractive and would likely result in a challenge to the system.

The AFL would then have to hope that a decision to limit free agents to a certain group of clubs would hold up on the basis of it being designed to even the competition.

Draft had a precedent in Court when the Rugby league Players Association beat it there.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Professer E on August 27, 2019, 05:25:34 pm
Ryder left because of the "PEDs" and concerns regarding his health... I mean "undisclosed substances - we're not sure what they were but undoubtedly not illegal".

If he goes back there he'd be one shallow individual. 
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: LP on August 27, 2019, 05:28:11 pm
Ryder left because of the "PEDs" and concerns regarding his health... I mean "undisclosed substances - we're not sure what they were but undoubtedly not illegal".

If he goes back there he'd be one shallow individual.

Maybe you need to know what the stuff was to get access to a cure?
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Lods on August 27, 2019, 05:36:40 pm
Draft had a precedent in Court when the Rugby league Players Association beat it there.

Read the conclusion in the link.
Because the Adamson NSWRL case was successful it doesn't mean all Draft systems challenged would be.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: kruddler on August 27, 2019, 06:14:36 pm
AFL should: Prevent marquee players changing clubs to top 8 clubs. 'Equalization is happening' says Gil… lying pr1ck, I say.
I'm inclined to agree. The AFL have been making the problem worse rather than better and need to adjust the free agency issues.

I've said this a few times, but the AFL has half-ar$ed copying the NFLs 'system' in all things. Our draft, free agency etc is all based off that. Any problem we have here, they have already solved. Rather than follow it warts and all, we drag our feet and make things harder for ourselves.

Recent changes of a 2nd signing period just before the AFL season which i think was given the green light recently is yet another baby step in the right direction....and one the NFL took years ago.

In regards to specifically free agency and top teams benefiting....NFL has a rule that the top 4 teams can't get in any free agents unless they lose some first. Tada, translate to AFL and problem solved.

FWIW, NFL also have a trade period which extends to week 6 (or week 8 ) of the season.....which is our next step.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Lods on August 28, 2019, 07:57:33 pm
I've said this a few times, but the AFL has half-ar$ed copying the NFLs 'system' in all things. Our draft, free agency etc is all based off that. Any problem we have here, they have already solved. Rather than follow it warts and all, we drag our feet and make things harder for ourselves.

Recent changes of a 2nd signing period just before the AFL season which i think was given the green light recently is yet another baby step in the right direction....and one the NFL took years ago.

In regards to specifically free agency and top teams benefiting....NFL has a rule that the top 4 teams can't get in any free agents unless they lose some first. Tada, translate to AFL and problem solved.

FWIW, NFL also have a trade period which extends to week 6 (or week 8 ) of the season.....which is our next step.

How strong is the "player union" (for want of a better word) over there Kruds.
One of the big stumbling blocks if the AFL want to bring in restrictions to destination clubs would be the AFLPA.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: kruddler on August 28, 2019, 08:21:24 pm
How strong is the "player union" (for want of a better word) over there Kruds.
One of the big stumbling blocks if the AFL want to bring in restrictions to destination clubs would be the AFLPA.

Thats a hard question to answer.

They get well looked after.
I think the best part of their deals is there training loads. They have OTA (organised team activities) which are voluntary training sessions. They are not required to pad up in most training sessions and have much more time off generally compared to the AFL.

Some times the players actually take it upon themselves to organise their own training sessions amongst themselves in a private setting in order to improve themselves. This is due to the strict PA rules in regards to how much contact the club has with the players and how much training they can do. They get it pretty cruisey in that regard.

Obviously they get plenty of coin....all of which is actually made public.

Players hit free agency a lot sooner in the NFL. They can change clubs once their initial contracts are up i believe. Each year they do a top 100 free agents list, and they could probably do a 2nd list if they chose. Plenty of movement allowed.
I guess that could be part of the trade off......easier movement between clubs (32 of them) but restricted movement to the top clubs (top 4).

Not sure if that answers your question or not.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: Lods on August 28, 2019, 08:59:24 pm
Thats a hard question to answer.

They get well looked after.
I think the best part of their deals is there training loads. They have OTA (organised team activities) which are voluntary training sessions. They are not required to pad up in most training sessions and have much more time off generally compared to the AFL.

Some times the players actually take it upon themselves to organise their own training sessions amongst themselves in a private setting in order to improve themselves. This is due to the strict PA rules in regards to how much contact the club has with the players and how much training they can do. They get it pretty cruisey in that regard.

Obviously they get plenty of coin....all of which is actually made public.

Players hit free agency a lot sooner in the NFL. They can change clubs once their initial contracts are up i believe. Each year they do a top 100 free agents list, and they could probably do a 2nd list if they chose. Plenty of movement allowed.
I guess that could be part of the trade off......easier movement between clubs (32 of them) but restricted movement to the top clubs (top 4).

Not sure if that answers your question or not.

To a point...
I guess the issue is this....there may be good reasons why the implementation of some of the successful NFL trade/ draft procedures cant be readily duplicated in Australian Football.
I just don't see the players agreeing to a system that dictates that they can't transfer to successful clubs, especially if it's for more money.

Private ownership of clubs seems much more the go over there. I'm not sure if and how that impacts on player movements.
They probably don't have the issue of player retention in expansion, non-traditional areas that clubs like the Gold Coast experience.
There is no rival code dominant in certain areas of the country like Rugby League is in Queensland and New South Wales.
Title: Re: 2019 & 2020 Thoughts
Post by: kruddler on August 28, 2019, 09:24:35 pm
To a point...
I guess the issue is this....there may be good reasons why the implementation of some of the successful NFL trade/ draft procedures cant be readily duplicated in Australian Football.
I just don't see the players agreeing to a system that dictates that they can't transfer to successful clubs, especially if it's for more money.

Private ownership of clubs seems much more the go over there. I'm not sure if and how that impacts on player movements.
They probably don't have the issue of player retention in expansion, non-traditional areas that clubs like the Gold Coast experience.
There is no rival code dominant in certain areas of the country like Rugby League is in Queensland and New South Wales.

Private ownership doesn't really impact those kind of things.

But there are very much big teams and not so much. Including expansion teams. The ownership side of things just makes it easier for people to pack up and move clubs easier.....and sometimes back again. However, one of the biggest, most successful teams is Green Bay Packers, and they are the only team who does not have an owner. Its kinda like our AFL teams....owned by members/shareholders.

As far as players going to successful clubs....you can still trade. Although its a lot rarer for players to change that way then via free agency. Since free agency is so prevalent though, most teams will lose a player (or more) from their 53-man roster every year, so movement to the top clubs can still happen...you just don't see the mass migration year after year.

I think culturally its different too.
In NFL its more about 'getting paid' than having success. Sure, there are some who are driven by success.