Here it is. Enjoy!
Terrible loss. Continued our form from the last 3 quarters last week.
Now we sit 7th with 102%
Well, that was disgraceful.
Test is for this group now is not about the loss but how they rebound.
Well the lid is still firmly on.
Actually only won 7 out of 16 qtrs this year.
Terrible loss. Continued our form from the last 3 quarters last week.
Spot on.
Wasn't confident at all.
Holiday is over. Hung on against Dogs and Dawks. 8)
Positive is that we play the bottom team next Sunday 💪
As bad as I've seen us play, well, since last year :o . Perhaps now we can offload pretenders like LOB and Setterfield and include the Stocker's and Kemp's. Lot's of terrible disposal and bad option decisions. guys like Williams get plenty of it but concede goals by poor execution. Saad, Doc and Hewitt out best IMO. The rest need to go back and have a good long hard look. Even Walsh made mistakes but you can't fault him. He just gives his all. Cripps out doesn't help. Was holding the hammy HIGH on his leg. Not good. Great time to be coming up against a 0-4 Port.
Won't be winning many games without a dual ruck setup, Pittonet is our Nankervis, not pretty but very competitive and a strong presence.
Young is handy but McDonald for me is a safer bet down back.
Stocker has to come in to give us another smaller defender who defends..
Williams, Newman, Saad, Docherty, Boyd all rebound well but it's one too many rebounders for me..
Cerra needs to contest better, pulled up short with the oncoming player think it was Weller and it's not good enough.
Martin and Fisher got junk time kicks but we're missing most of the game, Setterfield also very quiet, O'Brien was reasonable. Plowman...??. Never thought I'd say this but McGovern's absence has hurt our structure..
I don't know how Fisher and Martin get games at the moment EB. Martin just doesn't do enough for mind, promised much, delivered very little. Don't know why he always gets rushed back, needs to start earning his place
Hard to hide your deficiencies sometimes. Woeful performance really
We had the prelude to this last week so I was not entirely surprised. Have the players already grown tired of Vossy? A disgraceful effort imo.
Won't be winning many games without a dual ruck setup, Pittonet is our Nankervis, not pretty but very competitive and a strong presence.
Young is handy but McDonald for me is a safer bet down back.
Stocker has to come in to give us another smaller defender who defends..
Williams, Newman, Saad, Docherty, Boyd all rebound well but it's one too many rebounders for me..
Cerra needs to contest better, pulled up short with the oncoming player think it was Weller and it's not good enough.
Martin and Fisher got junk time kicks but we're missing most of the game, Setterfield also very quiet, O'Brien was reasonable. Plowman...??. Never thought I'd say this but McGovern's absence has hurt our structure..
Agreed. We desperately missed McGovern’s closing speed and distribution.
Kennedy was also woeful today and if he wants to be taken seriously his best and worst can’t be that far apart.
Our work rate and positioning on transition wasn’t up to it again, so Voss has got his work cut out.
Won't be winning many games without a dual ruck setup, Pittonet is our Nankervis, not pretty but very competitive and a strong presence.
Young is handy but McDonald for me is a safer bet down back.
Stocker has to come in to give us another smaller defender who defends..
Williams, Newman, Saad, Docherty, Boyd all rebound well but it's one too many rebounders for me..
Cerra needs to contest better, pulled up short with the oncoming player think it was Weller and it's not good enough.
Martin and Fisher got junk time kicks but we're missing most of the game, Setterfield also very quiet, O'Brien was reasonable. Plowman...??. Never thought I'd say this but McGovern's absence has hurt our structure..
Today may have been a disaster, but it wasn't the end of the world. It showed that we haven't got a plan B as yet, and plan A went out the window when Pittonet didn't come up. Witts' dominance was the difference.
[1] Pittonet to return transforms our midfield. With Lycett suspect with a shoulder, this week's major weakness could become our weapon.
[2] Cripps going off hurt us badly. He will be missed, but it does give Dow a chance, assuming he is fully fit.
[3] Boyd probably goes out for Stocker, who had a solid game today. Stocker has advantages, especially as he can play different roles.
[4] If Setters gets dropped, then he will be a little unlucky. He did have 20 possessions. However, his lack of intensity could be his downfall. Certainly both Newnes and Cottrell put their hands up to replace him. For that matter, Lochie O'Brien had it considerably less than Setters did.
[5] Fisher would be one to look at. He hasn't really hit his straps as yet. With Durdin available, as well as Motlop, Carroll and Williamson, there is pressure on him. Only 1 tackles today and 1 clearance. Not enough!
[6] Young could make way for Oscar Mac, but that is no certainty.
[7] I'm worried about Plowman at the moment. He doesn't seem to be anywhere near his best. He doesn't look fully fit, to be honest. I'd like to see him get some form and fitness in the VFL, but I'm not sure that is going to happen.
[8] Jack Martin continues to disappoint me. He simply doesn't do enough often enough. If Honey were fit, I'd be spelling Martin. However, Honey isn't there yet.
[8] Fogarty has to go. Too easy to out-body and doesn't do enough.
We never play well against GC and especially in there. Why? I don’t know, but I am one of few obviously that knew this was not a given win. How bad they were also didn’t really surprise after last weeks limp to the line.
Still think things have changed for the better overall and not bad to have the lesser talents displayed brightly, some just never work hard enough.
Onto next week. Assume we will win convincingly, seemed after Daddy Cripps went off we went to pieces, even Weiters was crap today.
Just watched the Presser.
Vossy spent 7 minutes saying nothing....
Should run for the National Party
Crippa hopefully not to bad so you just know he will be out for 4-6 weeks.
Apparently he has a a bad neck. Carrying 22 players for the last 3 weeks.. O0
I don't know how Fisher and Martin get games at the moment EB. Martin just doesn't do enough for mind, promised much, delivered very little. Don't know why he always gets rushed back, needs to start earning his place
Was a fan of Fisher Prof but he isn't doing enough and Martins form since arrival has mirrored his time at Gold Coast.
Either injured or playing the odd good game but too many poor ones in-between.
Like his talent but he just doesn't deliver bang for buck..if Josh Honey was available I would have him in for Martin.
Dow deserves an opportunity with Cripps now injured and Stocker in for Boyd who is as trier but not a real close checking enough defender.
Fisher and Setterfield both could be replaced also by a returning Durdin and Cottrell who has shown some form in the Magoo's.
Agreed. We desperately missed McGovern’s closing speed and distribution.
Indeed. McGovern adds that something that our defence often lacks; the ability to do the unexpected. His closing speed and kicking depth, and his ability to attack as well as defend, makes him someone we really miss when he's not there.
Funny, how things can change.
Kennedy was also woeful today and if he wants to be taken seriously his best and worst can’t be that far apart.
Indeed, this was a game where Kennedy needed to stand up and he didn't. That hurts him big time.
Our work rate and positioning on transition wasn’t up to it again, so Voss has got his work cut out.
Can't argue with that either. We do need a plan B, and probably a Plan C. Plan A is pretty good, but it is dependent on midfield dominance, which we didn't have today.
I hate talking about Kane Cornes, as he is usually an idiot. However, he finally came out with something that almost gave him credibility: tagging. We don't do enough of it. We haven't for a long time. Opposition mids used to prepare for a lean day when they played us: they got tagged into oblivion. But we haven't done this job well for many years. Ed Curnow was once a master, but our last two coaches didn't use him that way. This is an area we need to explore badly!
Welcome to Carlton Vossy. That was bound to happen. Not gonna bother singling out anyone as they were all pretty bad IMO (for the amount I saw, I turned it off just after half time). We'll give Port the lift they so badly need next week, nothing surer.
Too many structural issues today, was never confident on this one.
Cerra needs to contest better, pulled up short with the oncoming player think it was Weller and it's not good enough.
Saw that and thought at the time it was a poor effort.
It was kind of the tone for the day though...that hesitancy.
They wanted the ball more and attacked it better.
I was a radio spectator again today. There were long periods where bugger all Carlton names were mentioned. I didn’t hear Plowmans name at all. Fisher, Fogarty, Cerra, Martin, Kennedy (?tag) Owies….. weren’t far behind.
Well I hope Adam Cooney got a reality check pfft…
Next week will be a real test of resilience. Port usually make us look amateurish. Although that’s particularly in SA. Hopefully being at home gives us an edge.
Having watched the VFL game prior to the shambolic effort of the seniors, I would suggest there could be several changes this week (if the selectors are worth their salt) and hopefully we welcome back Pitt and Durdin. Just a shocking effort today. Don't think I've dropped the "F" bomb during a game so much for a long time. Too many mistakes to mention. I would have rather have somehow got across the line today and drop next week against Port.
Massive step back to reality today. Several holes in the list which showed up today again and losing like that against what i think will be a bottom 4 team is a trait i was starting to think we are over. Obviously not!
Midfield was not desperate enough and defensively lazy and then to top it off we were sloppy with ball in hand. Forwards missed getable shots and blokes like Fisher, Martin, Setterfield just don't do enough to warrant their place in the team. I was so frustrated seeing Fisher run so hard in junk time and improve his stats - yet has no impact when the game is on. Setterfield lopes around with no urgency - this bloke is not at AFL standard and should be in the 2s. If it wasn't for Doc and Saad today this would have been and absolute hammering. McGovern is missed more then many think - Yes he is a glass man but when he is on the ground we are a better team and much better balanced defensively. If only his body could hold up for more then a few weeks in a row. Time for Dow Stocker and Kemp to be given a decent run of games.
The club said they wanted respect from the footy world this year, well today was a backward step in that department too. Its a long season but next few weeks are massive for our season IMO.
Walsh is not running anywhere like it used too. I really hope we are not risking him.
Kennedy was horrible with the ball and even when the heat came off in the last he still coughed it up time and time again.
Williams i like but if you are going to be a accumulator then you just have to be clean - he shanked too many for my liking.
Newman was undisciplined and too loose.
Really very few won their position when you really look at it.
Was a fan of Fisher but he isn't doing enough and Martins form since arrival has mirrored his time at Gold Coast.
Either injured or playing the odd good game but too many poor ones in-between.
Like his talent but he just doesn't deliver bang for buck..if Josh Honey was available I would have him in for Martin.
Dow deserves an opportunity with Cripps now injured and Stocker in for Boyd who is as trier but not a real close checking enough defender.
Fisher and Setterfield both could be replaced also by a returning Durdin and Cottrell who has shown some form in the Magoo's.
Martin played well year 1 when he was getting near a front ended million bucks. Last 2 years, when he wage dropped he hasn't worked as hard.
@shawny “Really very few won their position when you really look at it”
No team will or should, trouble the opposition playing that way.
We were sleep walking q1 and never woke up for more than 5minute spurts. I was hoping that was part of our history. Seems not.
2’s were solid again. At least that gives me a little hope that pressure will elevate performances. Dow went off early and didn’t return. Hope he’s not injured 🤞🏼
Martin played well year 1 when he was getting near a front ended million bucks. Last 2 years, when he wage dropped he hasn't worked as hard.
Back to the VFL then
Well, that was a reality check today.
If my memory serves me correctly, except for short periods early in Kreuzer's career, we have not had a ruckman who could dominate a game since Madden retired in 1996.
This year has shown that an average ruckman such as Pittonet, or a "make believe" ruckman such as TDK or a "make do" ruckman such as Silvagni leave our supposedly good midfield exposed and found wanting when confronted by an average mid field and a dominant ruckman.
Today, like so many days in past seasons, as soon as our mid field struggles our defence can't handle the pressure, any system goes out the window, foot skills disappear, poor decision making becomes the standard, and we are well beaten.
Until we get a ruckman who can match it with the likes of Gawn etc, and give our mid field first use of the ball we are just dreaming about having a real impact on the top 4 spots.
I saw the end result and didn’t see the game. Looks like it was ugly and the coach has some work to do. I hope the side didn’t lose it between the ears. I hope complacency didn’t give them hope before the first bounce.
Just a few meandering thoughts.
When our midfield has favourable access/supply (ruck) removed, and when under those circumstances the aggot hits the grass, we (too easily) lose fight, connection and composure. That, combined with our seemingly inherent folding under intense opposition attention and pressure (being hunted) gives us what we're seeing.
Our % is 11th. Some pundits say % is a very good indicator of where your club is really at.
Although 'next man up' is an important mantra, the abilities of that 'next man' are critical.
Yes, 'doing your job' is a well established reality for success. But there is also how well you do your job and what more you can do. And on this our past sure did revisit us... player X may have done his job, just, but in effect he was still a passenger.
I have absolutely no doubt we have the personnel but a reality is that our injury list is longer than most. Too many authoritative and influential players are missing.
Our midfield yesterday was very un-Voss like. Timid, fumbly and reactive. Opponents will dine on this brittleness. We sure are a WIP, with plenty to work on.
Just about everything that could go wrong did go wrong -
* lose Crippa, and cop two broken noses
* both Charlie and Harry (who barely missed a shot for the first three weeks) lost their radar on the two big sticks. Charlie's kicking for goal was abysmal.
* 2 undisciplined 50s gifted them easy goals to start the third Q when we were still in the game
* once the dew came in, we couldn't hold on to the ball
* we need far more run out of the backline - other than Saad, we are statues who get stuck trying to get it past the wings. Lachie Weller carved us up going the other way. This is where McGovern has made a difference this year.
* the Suns' mids were far more hungry than our group - many of their clearances came off the back of pack-based wrestles, and we were out-wrestled big time
* it was just one of those days - every flying kick, every strange bounce, seemed to land in the hands of the Suns. You can put it down to bad luck, but in reality, we were simply out-worked.
* one very frustrating thing, after the umpires were red-hot on incorrect disposal in the first 3 weeks, they seemed to go ultra-soft in this game. I lost count of the number of times Anderson/Rowell/Miller did not dispose correctly and play on was the call. It contributed significantly to their clearance numbers.
Most significantly, the passengers in the side got badly found out, and some of the clangers were so bad I could not believe what I was seeing.
Hopefully there are some serious lessons here, but I would like to think we can't collectively be as bad as that again.
* one very frustrating thing, after the umpires were red-hot on incorrect disposal in the first 3 weeks, they seemed to go ultra-soft in this game. I lost count of the number of times Anderson/Rowell/Miller did not dispose correctly and play on was the call. It contributed significantly to their clearance numbers.
Yep, the impact of the way the AFL directs umpires to interpret or focus on certain rules has a huge impact. In the first few weeks we would have won lots of frees for effective tackles, yesterday it was play on and I don't get why we see such a change. It's like the umpires wound back the clock, maybe that new interpretation has been given the kybosh!
But this is the fundamental problem with those rules, they don't fix anything, they just change the interpretation which will forever remain variable. Scott(AFL) will claim the interpretation of the rule is being "refined" as players and umpires gain more "experience" under the current playing conditions. But it looked to me like it was back to the future. Should we be surprised, Scott(Geelong) has been one of the major critics which I find bizarre, because if he was prepared to change his game plan the rule actually suits Dad's Army just like it suited our own slower midfield! Just shows how fixed in their ways AFL coaches can be.
Another bizarre one was there were several occasions when GC player's basically tossed the ball in the air when tackled and then punched it, that's incorrect disposal and not one of them got pinged for doing it!
I felt we were too focussed on Levi, and I warned pre-match we didn't have a good match up for Chol which was dismissed by many, and along with Witts he's probably ends up amongst the BoG. For me the ideal player to take on Chol would have been Kemp, and Kemp would have also added some extra run. Fogarty for Pitto was a huge mistake, maybe we were hoping or expecting the rain.
Chol is a big unit, Kemp isn't ready for a player his size.
Losing Jones came back to bite us, Young is handy but still learning the game and I saw Chol out muscle him a couple of times.
Chol is a big unit, Kemp isn't ready for a player his size.
Losing Jones came back to bite us, Young is handy but still learning the game and I saw Chol out muscle him a couple of times.
Regardless, no use making excuses about what would not have worked after the fact when what we went in with was already deficient.
We might not have had someone to go with Chol body on body, in fact we don't, but we didn't have some capable of matching him on or across the ground either in Gov's absence.
At least Kemp could have run off him and made him more accountable, play the intercept role, but yesterday Chol had so much free range people were calling him Ingham's!
Regardless, no use making excuses about what would not have worked after the fact when what we went in with was already deficient.
We might not have had someone to go with Chol body on body, in fact we don't, but we didn't have some capable of matching him on or across the ground either in Gov's absence.
At least Kemp could have run off him and made him more accountable, play the intercept role, but yesterday Chol had so much free range people were calling him Ingham's!
They had control of the midfield and we needed a more seasoned Key Defender imo and not more running types.
Given Levi isn't really a push and shove player we might have been better switching Weitering and Young.
This was Jones forte being able to play on the bigger KP types and both defend and run off. Young is a decent enough player but needs more games and experience.
Clearly McGovern and OMac are miles ahead of Young and Plowman.
Dekoning is not ready to ruck full time, probably 3 years away.
I think there are many ways to address this problem, given we had no Gov we should have been cutting off supply or forcing Chol further up the ground, you do not have to defeat a player one on one to curtail their influence. Chol got his three goals, but the chaos he created around the fall of the ball inside F50 probably cost us another 3 or 4.
FWIW, I think we failed to run off Levi as well, and De Koning failed to run off Witts, we had advantages that we failed to make use of. For years as Carlton fans we watch opponents dragging Levi up past the Wing or even to the HBF leaving him ineffective as a KPF, yet we failed to do the very same.
Clearly McGovern and OMac are miles ahead of Young and Plowman.
Dekoning is not ready to ruck full time, probably 3 years away.
In the first 3 rounds, if De Koning or Pitto stood their ground and defended the fall of the ball at the centre bounce they were getting pinged for blocking, Witts did it multiple times yesterday as De Koning tried to jump over him, especially more so after Witts started limping, and Witts wasn't penalised once.
I'm not saying it would have made a difference, but it's a contributing reason why De Koning's form has tailed off. The kid has to be confused about what he can and cannot do!
In particular, there might be one or two umpires in the AFL that use handing out that blocking free to cover for a shizen bounce! More experienced rucks will leverage that knowledge, but it shouldn't really be the case.
Fisher had a Barry Crocker yesterday, Kennedy and LoB had a few fumbles as well, the all ran hard but when they needed to be clean they panicked and it can be demoralising for those around them. I give them credit for doing the work to get near the footy, often first to the footy, but you can't surrender it like that so often like that and still get a pat on the back.
Selecting Fogarty was just a mistake, I didn't expect anything based I what I saw earlier and he delivered to expectation, so we should not be shocked or upset. We can't have Fisher, Fogarty and Boyd all in one team and play a contested ball winning game style. They just do not have enough pace to gain an advantage on the outside, especially when Walsh also appears to be struggling given an interrupted pre-season.
Some fans are dirty on Martin, and no doubt he doesn't get enough of the footy, but he does deliver a different set of skills when he's competing overhead. However, if we play Pitto and De Koning, allowing SoJ to play forward, then I think Martin is a duplication of the SoJ forward play and as a result is redundant.
I thought given the barrage of football coming into our D50 the core defensive setup was OK. None of them failed but they will always be pretty powerless when continually outnumbered given an opponent gets so many deep and easy entries. My only criticism was that our D50 did not attack enough, perhaps that was more plan to keep De Koning rucking longer and not have to push so deep into D50.
When Cripps got injured, given Kennedy was having an ordinary day and Cerra was quiet, should we have given Setterfield a midfield run? Setterfield's certainly been covering the ground so he must be midfield fit.
Agreed. We desperately missed McGovern’s closing speed and distribution.
Kennedy was also woeful today and if he wants to be taken seriously his best and worst can’t be that far apart.
Our work rate and positioning on transition wasn’t up to it again, so Voss has got his work cut out.
As I said, even in the 1st-Qtr against the Dawks we looked flat, for a team on a roll we were labouring across the ground.
The consistency is really the trick, making sure the lows aren't too low.
Observations.
We over possessed the aggot at times.
We continued trying to hit up a forward against the best defender on the day (Collins) rather than actually try and pick our way through an opposition defense.
Charlie and Mckay need to stop playing from behind so much.
Our mids actually did ok, but failing to capitalise on momentum in the middle part of the game (2nd and 3rd quarters) when we had it was really problematic. Particularly Charlie and Harry missing key set shots.
There were some real face palm moments, and it appears as though the Suns used the tactic hawthorn did last week to beat us (big X for the coaching panel there).
Touk Miller probably reserves his best footy against us, which is quite telling of where we are at. Not sure why you would go with Boyd over Dow as the medi sub, but Boyd is still very much an enigma. He was better this week, but still not really up to it and will be an also ran. I suspect for Dow to be out of favour again, he is halfway out the door.
@LP Fisher, Boyd and Fogarty are quick enough. The issues are that we have a lot of blokes wasting the footy and choosing harder options than keeping it simple.
Ironically, our captain has ironed out this factor from his game, and has gone up a level, and the rest are all trying to do too much. An additional side step, a fend off, too cute with the kick, biting off more than they can chew, etc.
Only taken a month but Voss gets to see first hand the sh#t we're capable of serving up....and more often than not, against teams lower on the ladder than us and in games we should win...think back to the game against North late last year.
Apart from the opening minute or so, it was another one of those Carlton games where, 10 minutes in, you could just see we weren't on at all. Back to the fumbling, poor skills, poor disposal. They have so many ordinary types who were just carving us up and running around unchecked in the forward line. Most of our best players were defenders, but who was on Rosas....kid has played about half a dozen games and made us look silly.
I'm a huge fan of the way Pittonet plays for us and it showed how important he is to us and the structure. TDK is a totally different sort of player and won a few taps but gets pushed off the ball too easily and isn't having any impact around the ground.
I've been one to defend Plowman at stages but he surely can't stay in that team....he's just a dumb footballer! The spoil on Kennedy when trying to mark was the "pinnacle" yesterday.
Setterfield might've got 20 possessions but mostly ineffective IMO. Similary, Fisher is another who hasn't really fired a shot this year and needs as a spell in the VFL.
Losing Cripps would've hurt but our contested ball and other 4 mids have been a highlight this year.....but not yesterday. Thrashed by Rowell, Anderson, Miller, Weller etc. Hewett was good but Kennedy hardly sighted and probably one of Walsh's poorer games...but hard to be critical of him given what he's done since his very first game.
Gone was the pressure, tackling and chasing that were a highlight in the first 3 games. Obvious question, but did they rock up just expecting to win? Would've thought we've been so sh#t in recent years that we don't get that luxury.
Hopefully Pittonet and Durdin are right to go next week.....they'll be in along with probably Stocker, Kemp, Dow. Outs will be Cripps for sure and likely Fogarty, Plowman, Setterfield and Fisher. I think Owies stays....he was poor yesterday but his role alongside Durdin has been good this year so deserves another chance.
Too many skill errors, poor decisions and lack of hunger. Watched the game again and midfield was comprehensively smashed.
It looked like an off day rather than the norm IMO. Some backsides need to be kicked but nothing radical based on one game. Like to see some changes, few players have been under performing since round one and give some boys in VFL that have been playing well a chance to shine. Dow, Kemp, Stocker, Parks.. Philp needs another week.
What's going on with Sam Walsh?
He looks half the player he was last year.
What's going on with Sam Walsh?
He looks half the player he was last year.
A little bit out of form like half his team mates since last week. We have had 1 and half games of under performance and can't allow the rot to settle in. Coaches have a big job in front of them now
A little bit out of form like half his team mates since last week.
The kids had almost zero pre-season compared to his compatriots yet he's got to the point he can compete, we should be lauding his performance not bagging his efforts.
It's mostly skills and reaction that have let him down, decision making in traffic and the like, little connection with team mates, getting in each others way, etc., etc.. That is typical because I bet he spent all his available training time catching up on fitness and the skills sessions got the kybosh.
At least his ordinary is still enough for some to give him a vote, if only we had a few more like that!
Sam Walsh's tightrope surgery hasn't left him vulnerable to further injury. He didn't come back too early. The ligament has been replaced by a plastic cord which won't strengthen over time. The trauma caused by the surgery itself would presumably be long gone.
As LP notes, the injury, surgery and recovery over a 4 week period has created a big hole in his preseason preparation. He had to focus on recovery rather than peak fitness and of course he had little opportunity to prepare via contested footy drills and preseason games.
Added to this, adjusting to the new ligament is a more gradual process that might take the remainder of the season. Cam Guthrie said that it took him a year:
Guthrie had about two weeks in a moon boot before progressing to light walking and running on the Alter G treadmill (weight-bearing treadmill) and finally running outdoors once the swelling and pain had subsided.
He began full training six weeks following surgery and played his first match at week eight.
Even still it took him the rest of the season to get back to full capacity, which included one-legged proprioceptive movement as part of the recovery process.
“For a good 12 months after the injury, doing a lot of one-legged exercises you could really tell the difference between the injured ankle and the good one,” he said.
“The biggest thing that impacted me after surgery was when I was kicking.
“I couldn’t really point my toe as firmly as I wish I could have. I’m a big believer in having a really firm foot when I kick and I couldn’t really do that movement to the best of my ability, but it got better slowly and I haven’t had any issues since.”
What is Syndesmosis? AFLPA in 2020 (https://www.aflplayers.com.au/news-feed/stories/what-is-syndesmosis)
What can you say. It is not like we haven't seen this movie before. Maybe we can move away from this Voss Gloss nonsense we have had in the media over the past few months. We are a better side than last year because we have three new quality players in the team who weren't there last year. Curnow, Hewett and Cerra. The first three weeks we had a pretty healthy list, this week with Cripps getting injured we seem to have had a few holes. Witts is a very good ruckman. I have just behind Gawn, Grundy and Natanui but playinmg for Gold Coast he doesn't get a lot of recognition. He is also the type of ruckman DeKonning will struggle against until his body matures more. We need small forwards who can kick goals. I might be a bit old fashion but I believe a forward who lays tackles and engages in pressure acts is good, but a forward who kicks goals is better. Durdin and Motlop would be good, Dow needs a chance as does Stocker while Mirkov could be interesting if Pittonet is not available.
We need small forwards who can kick goals.
I mentioned last week after the close shave that we had forgotten our Rnd 1 & 2 roots, because Charlie, McKay and SoJ had been so good we had become KPF focussed and we no longer looked threatening in the SF / Midfield brigade. Rnd 1 in particular it was the spread of goal kickers that got us the result, they focussed on BigH and Charlie, we kicked goals with the likes of Cripps, Kennedy, Owies, Cerra and Durdin, Charlie got goals acting as a rover. The last two rounds too much on too few and it makes us too predictable, other than Cripps the midfield do not look like getting the same number of scoring opportunities.
When we have more diverse scoring options, BigH, Charlie and SoJ get more genuine and pure one on one opportunities, not battling two or three opponents.
It's not unreasonable to understand how this comes about, McKay and Charlie are significant, but if we rely on them week in week out by the end of the season we will be losing more than we win.
Obscure comment and I doubt it was a factor..... but the shadows on that ground are a little bizarre, especially at the time of day our match was played.
Lots of contrast between sun and shade
What can you say. It is not like we haven't seen this movie before. Maybe we can move away from this Voss Gloss nonsense we have had in the media over the past few months. We are a better side than last year because we have three new quality players in the team who weren't there last year. Curnow, Hewett and Cerra. The first three weeks we had a pretty healthy list, this week with Cripps getting injured we seem to have had a few holes. Witts is a very good ruckman. I have just behind Gawn, Grundy and Natanui but playinmg for Gold Coast he doesn't get a lot of recognition. He is also the type of ruckman DeKonning will struggle against until his body matures more. We need small forwards who can kick goals. I might be a bit old fashion but I believe a forward who lays tackles and engages in pressure acts is good, but a forward who kicks goals is better. Durdin and Motlop would be good, Dow needs a chance as does Stocker while Mirkov could be interesting if Pittonet is not available.
Well said ... our prime movers were just not there and nullifying them gave them avenues to create and kill us. All in all, a very poor and uncoordinated effort.
I mentioned last week after the close shave that we had forgotten our Rnd 1 & 2 roots, because Charlie, McKay and SoJ had been so good we had become KPF focussed and we no longer looked threatening in the SF / Midfield brigade. Rnd 1 in particular it was the spread of goal kickers that got us the result, they focussed on BigH and Charlie, we kicked goals with the likes of Cripps, Kennedy, Owies, Cerra and Durdin, Charlie got goals acting as a rover. The last two rounds too much on too few and it makes us too predictable, other than Cripps the midfield do not look like getting the same number of scoring opportunities.
When we have more diverse scoring options, BigH, Charlie and SoJ get more genuine and pure one on one opportunities, not battling two or three opponents.
It's not unreasonable to understand how this comes about, McKay and Charlie are significant, but if we rely on them week in week out by the end of the season we will be losing more than we win.
Yep.
A too familiar old story... opposition bring heat, we evaporate. There's a sniff of down-hill-skier about us, I hope this stops. Other clubs and their supporters identify that about us. Wasn't it a goal for us to establish respect in the footy world?
We just didn't compete this week v the Suns. Too many passengers and players who looked like they wanted to take the easy way out. Soft. Not good enough. Hoping Voss puts a massive rocket up them this week.
As for changes, it's hard to know but Pittonet is back it seems. Now we can see what our response is. I am very much looking forward to this and which players do respond. We must nail Port to the floor and take the 4 points.
For starters, I think Durdin, Pittonet, Dow and Stocker should come in.
Outs would include the injured Cripps, Martin, Fogarty and Boyd for mine.
If McDonald is right, I'd consider him but does he need a run in the 2's first?
Plowman worries me still.
I know it was just the suns, but they may not be the easy beats everyone used to think they were this season and they are actually pretty good.
We didn't make them look good either. They played tough footy and took our best component of our game away.
What's going on with Sam Walsh?
He looks half the player he was last year.
Might be something to do with the previous walsh was fit to trot and 2 years in whilst the current version wasn't expected to be on the field by now after his syndesmosis injury.
Cripps is the difference for us at the moment. It was my biggest concern heading in. Had we improved or was crippa in top form for a change and now we come crashing down?
Today may have been a disaster, but it wasn't the end of the world. It showed that we haven't got a plan B as yet, and plan A went out the window when Pittonet didn't come up. Witts' dominance was the difference.
This simplistic assessment is 100% spot on.
In the first 3 rounds we got most of our goals from stoppages and dominated centre clearances so that our forwards had room to move and were not outnumbered - Plan A has been very good but Voss seems to be similarly placed to Teague when Plan A doesn't work.
Plan A has been very good but Voss seems to be similarly placed to Teague when Plan A doesn't work.
So it's time to call for his sacking then! :o
The honeymoon is over baby, it's never gunna be the same again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-puVOJF5jQ
The 'one soldier out, another soldier in' doesn't really work unless you're changing like for like....or at least something similar.
What's happened over the first four rounds with injury and illness is that we have developed an 'imbalance' in the side.
Players are being asked to perform roles that are not their 'A' job.
As they step up, others are required to pick up the slack of their normal role.
It creates a weakness and an imbalance across the field.
We sacrifice the strengths of players because 'a role' is required
It means our depth might not be as good as we may have thought.
Now add the 'after effects' of some of the covid guys who may still be feeling the effects, and Walsh being very much underdone (No criticism...it's amazing he's out there gathering possessions) and we end up with results like yesterday which shouldn't be that surprising.
Now if there is a criticism, it's that it appeared that many players accepted that was the case...and the fight, effort and intensity just wasn't there.
Go down, but go down fighting!
Watched the Grand Prix, when that finished watched the first half and thought that was enough.
Just a quick question for those that know more than me (coming off a low base!):
How can a player have more disposals than possessions? eg only - not a discussion of players!
In the AFL Player stats, it has LOB with 17 disposals and Williams 36 disposals.
In the advanced view, it has LOB with 16 possessions and Williams with 27. Can you have a disposal without having possession? (Williams 36 disposals, 27 possessions).
Coaches votes from the GC game...
9 Jarrod Witts (GCFC)
9 Noah Anderson (GCFC)
5 Touk Miller (GCFC)
4 Lachie Weller (GCFC)
2 Sam Collins (GCFC)
1 Adam Saad (CARL)
Coaches votes from the GC game...
9 Jarrod Witts (GCFC)
9 Noah Anderson (GCFC)
5 Touk Miller (GCFC)
4 Lachie Weller (GCFC)
2 Sam Collins (GCFC)
1 Adam Saad (CARL)
Thats telling
Watched the Grand Prix, when that finished watched the first half and thought that was enough.
Just a quick question for those that know more than me (coming off a low base!):
How can a player have more disposals than possessions? eg only - not a discussion of players!
In the AFL Player stats, it has LOB with 17 disposals and Williams 36 disposals.
In the advanced view, it has LOB with 16 possessions and Williams with 27. Can you have a disposal without having possession? (Williams 36 disposals, 27 possessions).
Kicks off the deck? Zach had a few.
Watched the Grand Prix, when that finished watched the first half and thought that was enough.
x2 (exactly what I did)
Thats telling
Yep dominated in the middle ...
Kicks off the deck? Zach had a few.
Makes sense, because it's a kick, but doesn't make sense because you can't dispose of something you don't have. Happy to leave it at more mangled terminology!
Makes sense, because it's a kick, but doesn't make sense because you can't dispose of something you don't have. Happy to leave it at more mangled terminology!
Maybe it’s like this.
You’re not awarded a possession when the umpire hands you the ball and you kick it. Be that the goal umpire or boundary bloke. 🥸
So it's time to call for his sacking then! :o
No - it was not time to sack Teague
Watched the Grand Prix, when that finished watched the first half and thought that was enough.
Just a quick question for those that know more than me (coming off a low base!):
How can a player have more disposals than possessions? eg only - not a discussion of players!
In the AFL Player stats, it has LOB with 17 disposals and Williams 36 disposals.
In the advanced view, it has LOB with 16 possessions and Williams with 27. Can you have a disposal without having possession? (Williams 36 disposals, 27 possessions).
Who was kicking in from behinds and how many times did he do that? You might have your answer. ;)
re Walsh....
Around the time he shanked one out of bounds at about wing/half forward he was limping. Syndesmosis or not, i don't think his ankle is 100%.
To me it looked like someone who had a jab in an ankle but it worked a little bit too well. At least it was comparable to people who have had similar in the past.
Maybe pure coincidence, maybe some truth to it.
FYI....apparantly McKay has been fined $1000 for staging/flopping late in the game.
FYI....apparantly McKay has been fined $1000 for staging/flopping late in the game.
More likely they MRO thinks his broken nose was a fake, he is a Carlton player after all!
More likely they MRO thinks his broken nose was a fake, he is a Carlton player after all!
Different incident, and that was a head clash in a marking contest, so they couldn't get him for that.
*
remembers Plowman being suspended for an accidental head clash in a marking contest*Funny how McKay gets done for that. Setterfield copped a round arm to the head while jumping for a loose ball in the pocket and didn't even warrant a free kick for head high contact.
If you are going to scrutinise the game to the level where McKay gets fined, then at least look at the setterfield incident.
Different incident, and that was a head clash in a marking contest, so they couldn't get him for that.
*remembers Plowman being suspended for an accidental head clash in a marking contest*
Funny how McKay gets done for that. Setterfield copped a round arm to the head while jumping for a loose ball in the pocket and didn't even warrant a free kick for head high contact.
If you are going to scrutinise the game to the level where McKay gets fined, then at least look at the setterfield incident.
Yes, I know I was joking (half joking)
What about that Plowman collision in the last quarter, the GC player flopped to the ground holding his head and Plowman didn't even make contact that high! I can't believe Plowman didn't get life ban for that one!
I wonder how long it will be before Voss develops the us and them mentality, this will be the first time in his illustrious career that he is experiencing this stuff! I hope he keeps his composure, I hope he keeps his smile!
If you want to see why the MRO treat us the way they do, look no further than AFLW. Maddie P has been clobbered illegally in the AFLW and gets the raw end of the stick, and now shes leaving to go to Essendon.
This is something I have thought about. Why would you play at the place which is deemed AFL purgatory when you can go to windy hill and get the gold treatment because they are "good for footy".
If you want to see why the MRO treat us the way they do, look no further than AFLW. Maddie P has been clobbered illegally in the AFLW and gets the raw end of the stick, and now shes leaving to go to Essendon.
This is something I have thought about. Why would you play at the place which is deemed AFL purgatory when you can go to windy hill and get the gold treatment because they are "good for footy".
You will find many people saying similar across every AFL club site.
I do not subscribe to this theory.
FWIW, Patrick Cripps is =20th in free kicks for this year. He did miss over half the game on the weekend (which works out to be 1/8th less potential time on ground than others.
Increase his free kick count by the difference (assuming he'd receive the same amount of free kicks in the time he missed)
and he get 1 more free kick, which makes him =10th in the league for frees for.
Now if what you say is true, surely the AFL wouldn't allow that.
Yet, we still think he's hard done by.
Short version...
BS.
FWIW, Patrick Cripps is =20th in free kicks for this year. He did miss over half the game on the weekend (which works out to be 1/8th less potential time on ground than others.
The vast bulk of Cripps free kicks are for being held, the one thing that is dead set obvious to an umpire is a taggers arm around the waist or a stretched jumper. He's hardly had a free kick for high contact, which seems ironic given the opposition rip his head off multiple times a game and have to effectively reach up to do it!
Cripps like Prespakis puts his head over the footy to pick it up in traffic and get's stuff all protection, Selwood cleans up on frees in the same circumstance! It can't be size related, or else Prespakis at the other end of the spectrum would have been a monty for 10 frees a game!
Did you notice how much high contact we copped last weekend without a free kick being awarded, how about Owies or Setterfield? They weren't just high contact they were also front on contact and it was play on, it's untenable three field umpires can miss such obvious infringements! We hate Scott for his whinging, but perhaps it's time we did some of our own, at least just asking the questions in a suitable public forum.
Could write three pages on how bad that was, the wheels completely fell off and to add insult to injury, not one of our players wanted to put them back on.
Way to complacent, a refusal to tackle & chase, too much finger pointing to a team-mate to instruct them to mind an opponent ........ I could go on !!
This game showed up a number of players as frauds and not being prepared to fight when the game was on the line. Don't get me wrong, the Suns played well and thoroughly deserved to win but we were barely competitive after quarter time, no-one wanted to take ownership and fight it out, pathetic really.
Setterfield ......... FFS, banish this bloke to the magoos forever, looks like Tarzan but plays like a pre-school ballerina.
Fisher ..... running around on the spot spectating, may as well taken the ground with a deckchair and some binoculars.
Fogerty ..... supposedly Cats fans were upset to lose him, I bet they don't want him back now, here's a subtle hint for you Lachie - lay multiple tackles and apply some forward 50 pressure, otherwise, go back to the quilting classes.
Walsh .... had 28 disposals ........ bugger me, I struggled to see any of them, he is not even half the player we know he should be.
McKay .... 4 marks & 7 kicks for the tallest player on the ground who then copped a $1K fine for staging ..... get out the viagra eye-drops and stand in front of a mirror, time for you take a long hard look at yourself.
Plowman ........ WTF does the match committee, coaching staff & a selective section of the supporter base see in this clown ?? He is the biggest liability on the list, banish him to the Ukraine where he spend his hours running around dodging Russians instead of opposition players.
De Koning ....... qualified as a Life Member of Mensa with his attempt to touch that set shot at goal by standing 5-metres inside the field of play instead of starting off behind the goal umpire.
Martin ......... we don't want to see your highlights reel, we just want to see the whole meat & potatoes stuff, I've said it before and I'm confirming it again here, this guy is a bone-fide overpaid dud, come at me !!!
Kennedy ........ you were given a golden opportunity to stamp your individual presence on a game with Cripps going off injured, I don't care how good you have been in previous weeks, this was your time to show genuine leadership and lead the midfield, you failed the exam miserably.
Cerra ........... paid the big bucks but with no discernable impact on the match, I'll cut you some slack this one and only time, never ever put up another crap-show like that again.
Newman ...... who the feck do you think you are, Hulk Hogan or King Kong Bundy ?? Fancy wrestling with that midget Ainswerth and then giving away a 50-m penalty that resulted in a certain goal - your papers are stamped now son !!!
One of the few players that genuinely earnt his pay packet was Lochie O'Brien and I'm certainly no fan of his. He was not afraid to tackle, chase, bump or at one stage, go up in the ruck, he was bleeding for the jumper even though he has some serious limitations, some of his team-mates should have been embarrassed to look him in the eye.
And Charlie Curnow ...... take your screwing time when having a set-shot for goal, OOTF does us no favours at all.
Could write three pages on how bad that was, the wheels completely fell off and to add insult to injury, not one of our players wanted to put them back on.
Way to complacent, a refusal to tackle & chase, too much finger pointing to a team-mate to instruct them to mind an opponent ........ I could go on !!
This game showed up a number of players as frauds and not being prepared to fight when the game was on the line. Don't get me wrong, the Suns played well and thoroughly deserved to win but we were barely competitive after quarter time, no-one wanted to take ownership and fight it out, pathetic really.
Setterfield ......... FFS, banish this bloke to the magoos forever, looks like Tarzan but plays like a pre-school ballerina.
Fisher ..... running around on the spot spectating, may as well taken the ground with a deckchair and some binoculars.
Fogerty ..... supposedly Cats fans were upset to lose him, I bet they don't want him back now, here's a subtle hint for you Lachie - lay multiple tackles and apply some forward 50 pressure, otherwise, go back to the quilting classes.
Walsh .... had 28 disposals ........ bugger me, I struggled to see any of them, he is not even half the player we know he should be.
McKay .... 4 marks & 7 kicks for the tallest player on the ground who then copped a $1K fine for staging ..... get out the viagra eye-drops and stand in front of a mirror, time for you take a long hard look at yourself.
Plowman ........ WTF does the match committee, coaching staff & a selective section of the supporter base see in this clown ?? He is the biggest liability on the list, banish him to the Ukraine where he spend his hours running around dodging Russians instead of opposition players.
De Koning ....... qualified as a Life Member of Mensa with his attempt to touch that set shot at goal by standing 5-metres inside the field of play instead of starting off behind the goal umpire.
Martin ......... we don't want to see your highlights reel, we just want to see the whole meat & potatoes stuff, I've said it before and I'm confirming it again here, this guy is a bone-fide overpaid dud, come at me !!!
Kennedy ........ you were given a golden opportunity to stamp your individual presence on a game with Cripps going off injured, I don't care how good you have been in previous weeks, this was your time to show genuine leadership and lead the midfield, you failed the exam miserably.
Cerra ........... paid the big bucks but with no discernable impact on the match, I'll cut you some slack this one and only time, never ever put up another crap-show like that again.
Newman ...... who the feck do you think you are, Hulk Hogan or King Kong Bundy ?? Fancy wrestling with that midget Ainswerth and then giving away a 50-m penalty that resulted in a certain goal - your papers are stamped now son !!!
One of the few players that genuinely earnt his pay packet was Lochie O'Brien and I'm certainly no fan of his. He was not afraid to tackle, chase, bump or at one stage, go up in the ruck, he was bleeding for the jumper even though he has some serious limitations, some of his team-mates should have been embarrassed to look him in the eye.
And Charlie Curnow ...... take your screwing time when having a set-shot for goal, OOTF does us no favours at all.
Some fair points there brother Lucifer and yep O'Brien showed more spirit than a few of his better paid teammates and wants to stay on the list.
If some of our defenders could actually defend instead of getting useless cheap possessions it might help too.
EB, I made the point on another thread....most of our best players were defenders....but who was on Rosas? Playing about his 6th game, kicked 3 goals and made us look stupid. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Plowman on him.....he was too busy watching Lukosius waltz away from him. It might've been Newman....who, IMO, is having a very ordinary season and wouldn't surprise me to see him dropped this week and replaced with Stocker down back. We'll need someone to man up on Robbie Gray.
I don't really have much to say apart from very disappointing but entirely predictable after Fogarty replaced Pittonet ::)
I was critical of Boyd in the previous game and didn't think a lot of his pre-season efforts. However, I thought that he played quite well, used the ball pretty well and certainly wasn't among our poorer players on Sunday. That said, I'm not entirely sure whether his presence helps our defensive set up. I guess it depends on the sort of player he is set to defend.
I don't really have much to say apart from very disappointing but entirely predictable after Fogarty replaced Pittonet ::)
I was critical of Boyd in the previous game and didn't think a lot of his pre-season efforts. However, I thought that he played quite well, used the ball pretty well and certainly wasn't among our poorer players on Sunday. That said, I'm not entirely sure whether his presence helps our defensive set up. I guess it depends on the sort of player he is set to defend.
Playing Boyd ahead of Kemp staggers me.
Some fair points there brother Lucifer and yep O'Brien showed more spirit than a few of his better paid teammates and wants to stay on the list.
If some of our defenders could actually defend instead of getting useless cheap possessions it might help too.
Playing Plowman and Newman as defenders are exhibits A and B. They may be backmen, but they certainly aren't defenders.
Could write three pages on how bad that was, the wheels completely fell off and to add insult to injury, not one of our players wanted to put them back on.
Way to complacent, a refusal to tackle & chase, too much finger pointing to a team-mate to instruct them to mind an opponent ........ I could go on !!
This game showed up a number of players as frauds and not being prepared to fight when the game was on the line. Don't get me wrong, the Suns played well and thoroughly deserved to win but we were barely competitive after quarter time, no-one wanted to take ownership and fight it out, pathetic really.
Setterfield ......... FFS, banish this bloke to the magoos forever, looks like Tarzan but plays like a pre-school ballerina.
Fisher ..... running around on the spot spectating, may as well taken the ground with a deckchair and some binoculars.
Fogerty ..... supposedly Cats fans were upset to lose him, I bet they don't want him back now, here's a subtle hint for you Lachie - lay multiple tackles and apply some forward 50 pressure, otherwise, go back to the quilting classes.
Walsh .... had 28 disposals ........ bugger me, I struggled to see any of them, he is not even half the player we know he should be.
McKay .... 4 marks & 7 kicks for the tallest player on the ground who then copped a $1K fine for staging ..... get out the viagra eye-drops and stand in front of a mirror, time for you take a long hard look at yourself.
Plowman ........ WTF does the match committee, coaching staff & a selective section of the supporter base see in this clown ?? He is the biggest liability on the list, banish him to the Ukraine where he spend his hours running around dodging Russians instead of opposition players.
De Koning ....... qualified as a Life Member of Mensa with his attempt to touch that set shot at goal by standing 5-metres inside the field of play instead of starting off behind the goal umpire.
Martin ......... we don't want to see your highlights reel, we just want to see the whole meat & potatoes stuff, I've said it before and I'm confirming it again here, this guy is a bone-fide overpaid dud, come at me !!!
Kennedy ........ you were given a golden opportunity to stamp your individual presence on a game with Cripps going off injured, I don't care how good you have been in previous weeks, this was your time to show genuine leadership and lead the midfield, you failed the exam miserably.
Cerra ........... paid the big bucks but with no discernable impact on the match, I'll cut you some slack this one and only time, never ever put up another crap-show like that again.
Newman ...... who the feck do you think you are, Hulk Hogan or King Kong Bundy ?? Fancy wrestling with that midget Ainswerth and then giving away a 50-m penalty that resulted in a certain goal - your papers are stamped now son !!!
One of the few players that genuinely earnt his pay packet was Lochie O'Brien and I'm certainly no fan of his. He was not afraid to tackle, chase, bump or at one stage, go up in the ruck, he was bleeding for the jumper even though he has some serious limitations, some of his team-mates should have been embarrassed to look him in the eye.
And Charlie Curnow ...... take your screwing time when having a set-shot for goal, OOTF does us no favours at all.
Very good points LL. What will interest me is how they respond this week against a down PA. I said TDK wouldn't enjoy reviewing his tape but there are quite a few more who would find it rather unpleasant viewing. Nothing less than a strong showing and a spanking of PA will be acceptable. I fear quite the opposite and FFS make some decent choices at the selection table.
EB, I made the point on another thread....most of our best players were defenders....but who was on Rosas? Playing about his 6th game, kicked 3 goals and made us look stupid. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Plowman on him.....he was too busy watching Lukosius waltz away from him. It might've been Newman....who, IMO, is having a very ordinary season and wouldn't surprise me to see him dropped this week and replaced with Stocker down back. We'll need someone to man up on Robbie Gray.
Most of our defenders kick chase and prefer to rebound, reckon you are right that it could have been Newman on Rosas and I'd drop him this week if that was the case, you add in that woeful 50m penalty he gave away and he had a shocker.
Stocker I would bring in for Boyd who was better than his debut game but I dont want to see him picking up Robbie Gray, Rozee, Butters etc....
Most of our defenders kick chase and prefer to rebound, reckon you are right that it could have been Newman on Rosas and I'd drop him this week if that was the case, you add in that woeful 50m penalty he gave away and he had a shocker.
Stocker I would bring in for Boyd who was better than his debut game but I dont want to see him picking up Robbie Gray, Rozee, Butters etc....
Its not that effin hard, when there is a stoppage near goal, the defenders need to be tighter than a snapper at 40 fathoms. If they can't, fark em off and find those who can. EOS.
I don't really have much to say apart from very disappointing but entirely predictable after Fogarty replaced Pittonet ::)
I was critical of Boyd in the previous game and didn't think a lot of his pre-season efforts. However, I thought that he played quite well, used the ball pretty well and certainly wasn't among our poorer players on Sunday. That said, I'm not entirely sure whether his presence helps our defensive set up. I guess it depends on the sort of player he is set to defend.
The only disposal i remember Boyd having was in the first quarter when he kicked to the wing, it was a mung floater and i thought, here we go again.
For an 'elite' ball user, he has put in some woeful efforts by foot.
The only disposal i remember Boyd having was in the first quarter when he kicked to the wing, it was a mung floater and i thought, here we go again.
For an 'elite' ball user, he has put in some woeful efforts by foot.
Yep, not up to AFL standard.
The only disposal i remember Boyd having was in the first quarter when he kicked to the wing, it was a mung floater and i thought, here we go again.
For an 'elite' ball user, he has put in some woeful efforts by foot.
In fact, he used the ball pretty well all game and 75% of his disposals were effective. Compare that with Weitering - 50%, Williams - 72%, Newman - 75%, Docherty - 83%, Saad - 78%, Young - 82% and Plowman - 89%.
What concerns me more about Boyd is his inability to impact contests; he's not particularly fast, he's not tall and doesn't outmark opponents, and he's not strong enough to outbody any but the smallest opposition players. He did show some footy smarts but, if he's going to get a regular game, his disposal efficiency has to be well into the 80% mark.
In fact, he used the ball pretty well all game and 75% of his disposals were effective. Compare that with Weitering - 50%, Williams - 72%, Newman - 75%, Docherty - 83%, Saad - 78%, Young - 82% and Plowman - 89%.
What concerns me more about Boyd is his inability to impact contests; he's not particularly fast, he's not tall and doesn't outmark opponents, and he's not strong enough to outbody any but the smallest opposition players. He did show some footy smarts but, if he's going to get a regular game, his disposal efficiency has to be well into the 80% mark.
There are a few you will offend here with that kind of talk, I'm sure LP will be one of them.
So I'll try a short version.
Effective disposal stat's are not accurate. Best way to be effective is to kick long to a contest and you will be at 100%. It bares little resemblance to how good a player is using the ball
Add to the fact he had the least amount of contested possessions on the ground, thus under the least amount of pressure.
There are a few you will offend here with that kind of talk, I'm sure LP will be one of them.
So I'll try a short version.
Effective disposal stat's are not accurate. Best way to be effective is to kick long to a contest and you will be at 100%. It bares little resemblance to how good a player is using the ball
Add to the fact he had the least amount of contested possessions on the ground, thus under the least amount of pressure.
Yes I agree that effective disposal stats are dodgy and disposal stats themselves aren’t particularly meaningful. However, they are the only comparative measure we have, apart from one’s memory and the replay.
My memory tells me that Boyd’s disposal was generally good. It stuck in my memory because it was such a contrast to his previous games.
That said, I’m not really sure what he brings to the team. Vossy praised him for getting to contests but I’d rather have someone who wins contests.
Just the first loss so not going get too upset yet. not one goes through undefeated, although the manner of the loss was very Carlton-like. Lose this week though and it will be different. It'd feel like the old Carlton.
I'm not so interested in the loss than in the rebound.
Yes I agree that effective disposal stats are dodgy and disposal stats themselves aren’t particularly meaningful. However, they are the only comparative measure we have, apart from one’s memory and the replay.
My memory tells me that Boyd’s disposal was generally good. It stuck in my memory because it was such a contrast to his previous games.
That said, I’m not really sure what he brings to the team. Vossy praised him for getting to contests but I’d rather have someone who wins contests.
I dont see Voss praising him getting to contests as a negative when he would prefer we win them. Every player needs to be judged relative to their capability.
I dont see Voss praising him getting to contests as a negative when he would prefer we win them. Every player needs to be judged relative to their capability.
Every player needs to be judged relative to what they contribute to the team structure, balance and performance. They will also be judged relative to the capabilities of others competing for their positions. Getting to contests is something we lacked in past seasons and accurate kicking out of defence remains an issue. Boyd's performances so far suggest that he could tick a couple of boxes, but I suspect he needs to tick several more.
Agree DJC....I'm still not sure on what Boyd's role is if he comes into the team? We have a few running/offensive half back types like Saad, Williams, Docherty....and to a lesser extent Newman. Can Boyd play that lock down role on a small forward? If not, then it's hard to see him forcing his way into the side ahead of someone like Stocker.
You cant judge a fish by its ability to ride a bycicle, just because you have a cyclist who is currently unable to fulfil that duty though DJC.
Boyd got a gig, and subsequent praise for being a fish attempting to ride a bycicle is my point. Some of the others wont pull the finger out to even give it a crack.
You cant judge a fish by its ability to ride a bycicle, just because you have a cyclist who is currently unable to fulfil that duty though DJC.
Boyd got a gig, and subsequent praise for being a fish attempting to ride a bycicle is my point. Some of the others wont pull the finger out to even give it a crack.
I like your turn of phrase Thry :)
Boyd got several gigs (if you include pre-season) and has been widely criticised here for his disposal, supposedly one of his strengths. I thought his disposal was quite good on Sunday and he made some difficult kicks look relatively easy. Other aspects of his game and how he fits into our defensive structure are different questions entirely.
I'd prefer to see a bigger, stronger defender who doesn't get out-muscled or left behind in a foot race.
I've been quite vocal on Boyd (i'm quite vocal on a lot of things :-[ ), but i generally tend to defend the players more than most on here do.
Even to the point where he was drafted. I saw his highlights and questioned his need, but he did have elite kicking (well highlights don't show the misses do they) so i was prepared to give him a go.
However, starting from the pre-season games where he stunk it up and look well out of his depth, to the couple games he's played for us now, better, still sub-standard IMO, i am still left wondering if we have anyone on our list currently who is less inspiring and less deserving than Boyd.
IMO he has every other footballer on our list above him in the pecking order and nothing i've seen from him suggests otherwise.
I've said it, and a few others have said it too, but WHAT does he bring to the team? Shifter Sheahan says in order to be drafted you must be elite in something, preferably more than 1 thing. WHAT is his 1 thing? Should be kicking, but that is very much suspect under pressure, so is it really a strength?
OK, so he can get to contests....its a start. He loses his feet too easily, gets outbodied too easily and doesn't really win them. So does it really matter if he can get to contests if the end result is basically the same as if he never got there?
As a mature age recruit, he should be more advanced than what he is. He might be a ripping bloke, but i don't want him playing 1's.
Send him back to the VFL and let him knock down the door there before bringing him back.
By comparison, someone like Williamson (who i'm not a huge fan of) has the ability to get to contests too. Has a body big enough, and a mindset wild enough, to impact those contests. His ability to run and carry is both a positive (he adds run from defense) and a negative (he runs into trouble). So willo offers more in a similar role, despite having plenty of downsides.
You could similar about Cottrel. Hard, a running beast.
I'm not sure what Boyd offers over these other blokes, but we are clearly not seeing it yet.
I'm not interested in our many cheap kicks our defenders get its about how they defend and stop their opponents that matters.
Seems to me we have got carried away with rebounders picking up bags of possessions and judge our defenders on how many cheap kicks they get. Newman, Docherty and Williams are players who get plenty of ball each week but I want scrutiny on what their opponents are doing...We know Saad is capable of doing both roles and Weitering always puts defense first but the others need the microscope on their defensive work IMHO.
Yep Boyd picked up a few kicks but what did his opponent do?...maybe nothing so Boyd has every right to stay in the team as he would have done his primary role, maybe his man was involved in multiple goal assists or kicked a few himself so if thats the case Boyd has to go. This is why I like Stocker because like Saad you get a player who can both defend and attack and will stick close to his man. Richmond won three flags on the back of having a well balanced defense with Grimes, Broad, Astbury and Vlastuin providing a strong first line of defense but had Houli, Baker/ Short providing some run and flair off half back.
I'd like to see us with a similar setup and lose one rebounder in favour of a stronger defensive player....
I'd like to see us with a similar setup and lose one rebounder in favour of a stronger defensive player....
I'd like to see us pick a side to beat the opposition, not just our best 6 players and then try and find a role that they don't stuff up.
If the opposition has 3 talls, play 3 tall defenders.
If they have small forwards that turn the game, play someone who can lock down on them.
Need to lock down the wingers, play more attacking half backs to pick up the slack.
etc.
Could write three pages on how bad that was, the wheels completely fell off and to add insult to injury, not one of our players wanted to put them back on.
Way to complacent, a refusal to tackle & chase, too much finger pointing to a team-mate to instruct them to mind an opponent ........ I could go on !!
This game showed up a number of players as frauds and not being prepared to fight when the game was on the line. Don't get me wrong, the Suns played well and thoroughly deserved to win but we were barely competitive after quarter time, no-one wanted to take ownership and fight it out, pathetic really.
Setterfield ......... FFS, banish this bloke to the magoos forever, looks like Tarzan but plays like a pre-school ballerina.
Fisher ..... running around on the spot spectating, may as well taken the ground with a deckchair and some binoculars.
Fogerty ..... supposedly Cats fans were upset to lose him, I bet they don't want him back now, here's a subtle hint for you Lachie - lay multiple tackles and apply some forward 50 pressure, otherwise, go back to the quilting classes.
Walsh .... had 28 disposals ........ bugger me, I struggled to see any of them, he is not even half the player we know he should be.
McKay .... 4 marks & 7 kicks for the tallest player on the ground who then copped a $1K fine for staging ..... get out the viagra eye-drops and stand in front of a mirror, time for you take a long hard look at yourself.
Plowman ........ WTF does the match committee, coaching staff & a selective section of the supporter base see in this clown ?? He is the biggest liability on the list, banish him to the Ukraine where he spend his hours running around dodging Russians instead of opposition players.
De Koning ....... qualified as a Life Member of Mensa with his attempt to touch that set shot at goal by standing 5-metres inside the field of play instead of starting off behind the goal umpire.
Martin ......... we don't want to see your highlights reel, we just want to see the whole meat & potatoes stuff, I've said it before and I'm confirming it again here, this guy is a bone-fide overpaid dud, come at me !!!
Kennedy ........ you were given a golden opportunity to stamp your individual presence on a game with Cripps going off injured, I don't care how good you have been in previous weeks, this was your time to show genuine leadership and lead the midfield, you failed the exam miserably.
Cerra ........... paid the big bucks but with no discernable impact on the match, I'll cut you some slack this one and only time, never ever put up another crap-show like that again.
Newman ...... who the feck do you think you are, Hulk Hogan or King Kong Bundy ?? Fancy wrestling with that midget Ainswerth and then giving away a 50-m penalty that resulted in a certain goal - your papers are stamped now son !!!
One of the few players that genuinely earnt his pay packet was Lochie O'Brien and I'm certainly no fan of his. He was not afraid to tackle, chase, bump or at one stage, go up in the ruck, he was bleeding for the jumper even though he has some serious limitations, some of his team-mates should have been embarrassed to look him in the eye.
And Charlie Curnow ...... take your screwing time when having a set-shot for goal, OOTF does us no favours at all.
Win 3 lose 1. Some of our contributors forget to make comments after the 3 wins, but shoot with both barrels when we have an inevitable loss. Believe it or not, we WILL lose at least 8 matches this year, some will hurt more than others but that is where we are at this stage of our development. Enjoy the ride, celebrate the wins, trust the coaches, support the players, reflect on the defeats....and aim for a top 8 finish. OR we can bag the cr@p out of the place every time we hit a hurdle. I'll back the former.
Enjoy the ride, celebrate the wins, trust the coaches, support the players, reflect on the defeats....and aim for a top 8 finish. OR we can bag the cr@p out of the place every time we hit a hurdle. I'll back the former.
Most will be a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B!
Win 3 lose 1. Some of our contributors forget to make comments after the 3 wins, but shoot with both barrels when we have an inevitable loss. Believe it or not, we WILL lose at least 8 matches this year, some will hurt more than others but that is where we are at this stage of our development. Enjoy the ride, celebrate the wins, trust the coaches, support the players, reflect on the defeats....and aim for a top 8 finish. OR we can bag the cr@p out of the place every time we hit a hurdle. I'll back the former.
100% TC, I know I got hot under the collar watching on Sunday and turned it off early in the third, more about the way we played rather than the result. If you had of said to me we would be 3-1 at the start of the season, I would have taken it every day of the week and twice on Sundays. So its time for this little black duck to calm the farm and enjoy the ride (which will be bumpy at times). I do however want to see a good response this week though.
100% TC, I know I got hot under the collar watching on Sunday and turned it off early in the third, more about the way we played rather than the result. If you had of said to me we would be 3-1 at the start of the season, I would have taken it every day of the week and twice on Sundays. So its time for this little black duck to calm the farm and enjoy the ride (which will be bumpy at times). I do however want to see a good response this week though.
Think it was more who we lost against was what riled a lot of supporters...GC are crape, if that had been Melbourne most would have just said yep we have improved but are still short of the top teams and moved on but when you lose to a team devoid of real star power, coached by a battler like Stuey Dew clinging to his job and have a few of your players on big money not turning up or putting in short steps it takes you back to the dim past. Probably the signs were there after the Hawthorn game that we were nose diving and just fell over the line vs a rookie coach and a team of kids and old fellas. As Stkilda showed the Hawks are a very average team and its really been two weeks in a row we have struggled after a honeymoon start.
We should be clear cut favorites vs a very weak Port team who travel poorly but none of us know what Carlton will turn up....Lord Lucifer has every right IMO to question what was a pathetic display vs GC imho.
Win 3 lose 1. Some of our contributors forget to make comments after the 3 wins, but shoot with both barrels when we have an inevitable loss. Believe it or not, we WILL lose at least 8 matches this year, some will hurt more than others but that is where we are at this stage of our development. Enjoy the ride, celebrate the wins, trust the coaches, support the players, reflect on the defeats....and aim for a top 8 finish. OR we can bag the cr@p out of the place every time we hit a hurdle. I'll back the former.
I put losses into three different categories.
The first category covers losses such as a very tight game where the the bounce of the ball, a lucky kick by the opposition, or similarly a bad umpiring decision etc, decides the result.
The second category covers losses where, despite our best efforts, we are beaten by a better side on the day.
I have no trouble accepting losses in these categories when they occur and accept them as being where we are at that stage.
It's the third category of losses that I find unacceptable - the games where we should be competitive but lose in humiliating circumstances because the players, for some undisclosed reason, are not switched on and fall in a heap: these are the types of losses we have had to put up with so many times this century.
When our losses begin to fall into the first 2 categories I believe contributors will be more acceptable of those losses and will not fire from the hip so often, figuratively speaking.
Think it was more who we lost against was what riled a lot of supporters...GC are crape, if that had been Melbourne most would have just said yep we have improved but are still short of the top teams and moved on but when you lose to a team devoid of real star power, coached by a battler like Stuey Dew clinging to his job and have a few of your players on big money not turning up or putting in short steps it takes you back to the dim past. Probably the signs were there after the Hawthorn game that we were nose diving and just fell over the line vs a rookie coach and a team of kids and old fellas. As Stkilda showed the Hawks are a very average team and its really been two weeks in a row we have struggled after a honeymoon start.
We should be clear cut favorites vs a very weak Port team who travel poorly but none of us know what Carlton will turn up....Lord Lucifer has every right IMO to question what was a pathetic display vs GC imho.
What I got out of TC's post was that loses are going happen and some will hurt more than others. Sunday was one of the those for the reasons you mention above.
I put losses into three different categories.
The first category covers losses such as a very tight game where the the bounce of the ball, a lucky kick by the opposition, or similarly a bad umpiring decision etc, decides the result.
The second category covers losses where, despite our best efforts, we are beaten by a better side on the day.
I have no trouble accepting losses in these categories when they occur and accept them as being where we are at that stage.
It's the third category of losses that I find unacceptable - the games where we should be competitive but lose in humiliating circumstances because the players, for some undisclosed reason, are not switched on and fall in a heap: these are the types of losses we have had to put up with so many times this century.
When our losses begin to fall into the first 2 categories I believe contributors will be more acceptable of those losses and will not fire from the hip so often, figuratively speaking.
I like this but the second two categories are a bit subjective. If GC happen to kick on and play finals how does that loss look?
Gc also had a good day and beat us at our strong point. So id be more inclined to mark that one down as being beaten on a better side on the day.
Honest question. Not expecting them to necessarily do it, but there is another. An aberration. In 1995 the best Carlton side I've ever seen put 2 weeks together that were inexplicably bad. They turned out to be irrelevant matches in context of the seasons body of work, but had they not occurred there is no telling whether or not the rest of the season would have been what it was.
Think it was more who we lost against was what riled a lot of supporters...GC are crape, if that had been Melbourne most would have just said yep we have improved but are still short of the top teams and moved on but when you lose to a team devoid of real star power, coached by a battler like Stuey Dew clinging to his job and have a few of your players on big money not turning up or putting in short steps it takes you back to the dim past. Probably the signs were there after the Hawthorn game that we were nose diving and just fell over the line vs a rookie coach and a team of kids and old fellas. As Stkilda showed the Hawks are a very average team and its really been two weeks in a row we have struggled after a honeymoon start.
We should be clear cut favorites vs a very weak Port team who travel poorly but none of us know what Carlton will turn up....Lord Lucifer has every right IMO to question what was a pathetic display vs GC imho.
As Elwood alluded to, we could just as easily be 2-2, not 3-1. That sure colours my thinking. We were little short of atrocious against GC and our new season honeymoon needs a reality check.
Townsend....maybe we all got a bit carried away with the 3-0 start. Glass half empty and it could've been 0-4. Had to come from nearly 4 goals back to beat Richmond, withstood a second half onslaught from the Dogs after leading comfortably and nearly lost it against the Hawks after playing, arguably, our best quarter of footy in many years. 3-1 is way better than most of us had thought possible...most of us thought 4-0 in the lead up to last week.....but with a stroke of (bad) luck, we'd be staring down the barrel of 0-4 and Voss would've been really feeling the heat.
As others have commented, best way to deal with it is beat a struggling Port this week....simple as that. Drop this one and questions will be asked for sure.
Win 3 lose 1. Some of our contributors forget to make comments after the 3 wins, but shoot with both barrels when we have an inevitable loss. Believe it or not, we WILL lose at least 8 matches this year, some will hurt more than others but that is where we are at this stage of our development. Enjoy the ride, celebrate the wins, trust the coaches, support the players, reflect on the defeats....and aim for a top 8 finish. OR we can bag the cr@p out of the place every time we hit a hurdle. I'll back the former.
I'm not upset we lost Townie, its the manner in which we lost that really grinds my gears.
Our players never gave a yelp all game, no-one wanted to do any of the hard work they had in previous weeks.
Martin and Fisher survive.....
Plownan and Boyd pay the price (FARK)
Parks in the starting 18 (good)