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Topic: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast (Read 15875 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #135 –
^^

IF he wasnt a premiership captain, he wouldnt have that reputation.  He would be the reason they never won one.  In reality, he has delegated those tasks to his mates, whilst he is a relative clean skin.  Its the Caddy, Riewoldt, Dusty, Edwards, Vlastuin, Astbury types that do this stuff.  Cotchin isnt in that category he just goes when its his turn.

Murphy tried to do similar, and no one went with him.

Anyway, Cotchin is a two time premiership captain who is a nice guy but is no tough guy. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #136 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
^^

IF he wasnt a premiership captain, he wouldnt have that reputation.  He would be the reason they never won one.  In reality, he has delegated those tasks to his mates, whilst he is a relative clean skin.  Its the Caddy, Riewoldt, Dusty, Edwards, Vlastuin, Astbury types that do this stuff.  Cotchin isnt in that category he just goes when its his turn.

Murphy tried to do similar, and no one went with him.

Anyway, Cotchin is a two time premiership captain who is a nice guy but is no tough guy. 
Agree with all of that apart from the fact Cotchin has developed as a sniper who isnt adverse to the cheap shot punch or knee....
He isnt tough though as you say and wears a Tigers mask on the field and his leadership is more organizational than by example most times.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #137 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Agree with all of that apart from the fact Cotchin has developed as a sniper who isnt adverse to the cheap shot punch or knee....
He isnt tough though as you say and wears a Tigers mask on the field and his leadership is more organizational than by example most times.
In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #138 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?
I'd have kept Kennedy and gave the Eagles pick 1 and 3 like they wanted initially. Hindsight is wonderful unfortunately.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #139 –
Quote from: laj on
I'd have kept Kennedy and gave the Eagles pick 1 and 3 like they wanted initially. Hindsight is wonderful unfortunately.
Nice, but not what I asked. ;D
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #140 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?

I'll have a go... I suspect most folks would say Cotchin. Good player who has an uncanny knack of fronting up for most games... Tractor, not so much. In a way I wish we'd lost the 'Kreuzer Cup' against the Dees then we'd have had to take Cotchin.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #141 –
Quote from: Baggers on
I'll have a go... I suspect most folks would say Cotchin. Good player who has an uncanny knack of fronting up for most games... Tractor, not so much. In a way I wish we'd lost the 'Kreuzer Cup' against the Dees then we'd have had to take Cotchin.
I suppose the consequential downside of that is we would have had Cotchin roving to Warnock, Hampson, Cloke, Ackland or O'hAilpin, assuming Jacobs still wanted home! :o

It isn't the case a change only comes with positives!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #142 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?
Rule of thumb in the modern game is go the class midfielder.......get your ruckman from another club when they have done all the donkey work training them. Class mids are an essential, B-C grade rucks can get it done eg Lycett/Vardy, Nankervis/Soldo.
Kreuzer was sold as a ruckman who can also play KP...think most of us know now that trying to cheat with ruckman in KP's doesnt work, we doubled up giving Hampson a crack too...
I understand the clubs motivation to cover a few bases with MK so I am not critical, he has been a good player but is eating Cotchins dust in terms of achievements with the latter having two premierships and a brownlow plus being captain.
Carlton have a love affair with champion rucks in successful era's..Nick, Fitzy, Harry Madden, when rebuilding you go back to those successful years and reflect how you build a team with core players again, you see how MK would appeal as another potential star ruck to build around and create a new era.
 

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #143 –
I remember us at that time obsessing about getting a decent ruck as we were struggling in that dept. No way were we not going to get MK.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #144 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
I remember us at that time obsessing about getting a decent ruck as we were struggling in that dept. No way were we not going to get MK.

Maybe there is such a thing as karma and because we cheated to get the Tractor, we've been punished with an unreliable champ.  ;)
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #145 –
Quote from: Baggers on
Maybe there is such a thing as karma and because we cheated to get the Tractor, we've been punished with an unreliable champ.  ;)
Swans won a GF in 2005 after Barry Hall was allowed to play after belting Matt Maguire in the prelim because the AFL wanted their TV team to win the GF. The Karma bus must have been parked down at Bondi having a holiday..Its dog eat dog in the AFL and all clubs cheat at some point, so dont over think it..🤔😎....Windy Hill would be a Karma bus depot...

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #146 –
I saw enough early on to think that Kreuzer would have been a damn good player and team mate,  but the injuries cruelled him,  and in this age of hyper athletic giant rucks he's a smidge undersized and lacks that athletic zip.... But he's been a bloody good clubman for a long time in a dark era.   Apparently we really wanted NicNat,  but he was in the next draft.   In the Kruezer era we were perennially undersized,  so can see why we went for big blokes.

The one that upset me the most was Gibbs.   Didn't develop his game,  didn't evolve into the modern era midfielder we desperately needed and refused to add that defensive element - but he wasn't the lone ranger in that regard.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #147 –
Quote from: Professer E on
and in this age of hyper athletic giant rucks he's a smidge undersized and lacks that athletic zip.... 
 OK, I undertsand the injury sentiment.

In regard to size and athletic ability, I think the shortfalls are grossly overstated. In reality his under size is just 1"(2.5cm) or and 1-1/2"(4.0cm) to these hyper athletic giants, and he is probably 5 to 10kg lighter than the heaviest opponents. But Kreuzer is still around 105 to 110kg and it isn't a large proportion of fat like some of them.

On the aerobic front he leaves opponents gasping for air behind him while they watch him spread away from the stoppage as part of the midfield chain.

Otherwise, yes he has been crippled by injury and never really reached his peak, but his average is still so far ahead of our other options they are not even on the same park!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #148 –
Quote from: Professer E on
I saw enough early on to think that Kreuzer would have been a damn good player and team mate,  but the injuries cruelled him,  and in this age of hyper athletic giant rucks he's a smidge undersized and lacks that athletic zip.... But he's been a bloody good clubman for a long time in a dark era.   Apparently we really wanted NicNat,  but he was in the next draft.   In the Kruezer era we were perennially undersized,  so can see why we went for big blokes.

The one that upset me the most was Gibbs.   Didn't develop his game,  didn't evolve into the modern era midfielder we desperately needed and refused to add that defensive element - but he wasn't the lone ranger in that regard.

I always thought the biggest mistake that was made with Gibbs was attempting to force him to be a midfielder. He played some of his best footy as a defender, when he had a set task. The best midfielders tend to have a creative streak, with a mongrel determination.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #149 –
Gibbs was a mid and half forward for Glenelg, if anything we didn't play him forward enough.
Kreuzer, Gibbs and Murphy were all too much of the same ilk in terms if being nice guys.
They were the start of Von Trapp era where we went for nice boys but lacked the grunt you need for a onball setup and they also provided little leadership or cover for young players.