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Messages - Lods

18
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 5 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide
I must admit I had a bit of a laugh when Cerra was replaced by Pittonet.
I thought to myself "Kruddler's head will explode" :))  :))

But I also have to admit I thought it was a bit of a strange selection, and that Cincotta would have been a better option.

Quote from: kruddler on
It puts more on the shoulders of others as a result, and the benefit we get from it is not worth it.
Pitto had 6 clearances, only beaten by Walsh (8 ) and Cripps (7). He even kicked a goal. Put Cerra back in the side and he'd get the same amount of clearances (if not more), more possessions and is more likely to kick a goal most weeks as well.
So what benefit did we get from Pitto? A few extra hitouts to advantage....most likely leading to clearances.....which could've been equalled by having another pure midfielder in the team.
So what were the disadvantages....more gametime required by others, less run and pressure around the ball.....which is our strength.

I guess my issue with this, as it has always been with this debate is....
What are you replacing the ruckman with?
It's not going to be someone of the standard of Cerra.
It's going to be a fringe AFL player from the VFL who is not necessarily going to give you the same output as Pittonet produced in  half a game yesterday.
Now Cincotta would probably have been a better option once Cerra was out, maybe even give Binns a chance...but who else? (we'll pop over to the VFL now to have a look) ;)  :D
Most likely that extra player would have had minimal impact.

(I'm not sure why Pittonet only played half a game on the ground- managed, slight injury...watch this space. He could have rested either forward or back.)

I can see all the benefits of one ruck.
But I can also see the benefit in a long season in alternating them on some occasions and on others sharing the load and developing an understanding and combination.



19
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 5 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide
No VFL/AFL team has ever gone through the season undefeated.
Someday one will. It may even be a Carlton side.
That team will be a great team.
We’re not yet a great team, we’re not even our best team… not by a long shot, with quite a number of our players out, or injured during the game.
Our forward line was missing Fogarty, Motlop, Martin, Cunningham  all of who are in the mix for our best side.
Our defence was missing Marchbank, then Saad and McGovern
Cerra goes out of the midfield, and we’re a bit depleted.

The first loss of the season always stings.
It stings even more when it’s a team we thought we would account for easily.

But Adelaide did a number on us last year and did their homework well. We were out coached on the day. There were elements of the Fremantle approach in some passages yesterday as we struggled to move the ball out of defence.
So naturally there is a bit of disappointment, even anger and we’re looking for reasons.
Had we snuck over the line that would have largely disappeared.
We’d be looking for heroes, not villains.

But we weren’t awful…except some of our finishing.
The effort seemed to be there.
So many moments…Owies had two that could have changed the game
Had Owies not tripped over his own feet (or the Adelaide players feet)  near the end it may have been a different story.
Had the goal Owies kicked been counted (An umpire should never say "I believe it was touched". They either saw the touch or they didn’t. So the soft call when it’s inconclusive must always be a goal)…different story

Just on the two- ruck situation. It’s not as cut and dried as some believe. The replacement of a ruck/tall with a small mid-field running player has to be viewed in terms of plusses and minuses.
The gain of the running player must be seem in terms of the cost of what you lose by omitting the tall/ruck. There may be an advantage…but the gap may not be as huge as we may think. Pittonet gave us a bit especially early on…but yes, it may have cost us later in the game.
Playing two wasn’t the issue, as much as playing a ruck to replace Cerra was.
With Saad and McGovern going down a lot of our drive disappeared as rotations were affected. Williams also seemed to be struggling at stages and may have had to stay on because of the injuries.
In that situation a second ruck may have cost us and Cincotta would have been handy when Saad was injured.
But looking at the bigger picture…This was Pittonet’s first game of the year. and he wasn’t too bad considering. More than anything he needs a bit of game time. (He only got half a game yesterday) Does that affect TDK’s performance. You can look at it that way, based on this game, but making judgements based on one game is fraught with danger. You would have to believe that there is a bit of a plan regarding the ruck situation going forward, and managing that will be a bit tricky. The more Tom and Marc play together the better the understanding they’ll develop. Whether they’ll be given that opportunity is up to the coaches.
22
Notice Board (Visitors Enter Here) / Re: Missing Members - 2024
I suspect some of those members are still visiting the forum regularly, they're just not posting.

I read a couple of other Carlton forums on a daily basis (often a couple of times a day) ...I just don't post on them.




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23
Notice Board (Visitors Enter Here) / Re: Missing Members - 2024
Quote from: LP on
It seems we've lost a few more regulars for 2024, not sure why.

Does anyone have updates on the whereabouts or circumstances of former regulars?

If nothing else, I hope they are all safe and well and enjoying the 2024 results.

Noticed the same....
Activity seems a little down too
I'm seeing "no new posts" for extended periods.

I thought the season would bring a few back, but it seems not.
26
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 4 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle
It will be interesting to see if other sides adopt some of the smothering/stifling tactics against us that Freo employed today.
It will be interesting to see if other sides are capable of it. ;)  :D

They worked harder and wanted it more...but in the end they lost.
I suspect they will be seething.
Should be a tough game next time we play them.

The umpiring evened itself out in the end so we shouldn't dwell too much on that.


27
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 4 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle in Adelaide
Quote from: kruddler on
TDKs ruck craft is lacking.....its always been lacking.
However, TDKs around the ground work was where he was supposed to 'pay off' and that is what has lifted to a level we all hoped.
He hasn't hit his ceiling yet, but he is a step above where he was last year.

Can we get more out of TDK if we have Pitto in the side. Absolutely. 1-2 combo punch between them gives us a more dominant ruck combo.
Is the team better off as a whole by the increased ruck stocks? Keeping in mind a whole other player is not picked as a result, probably a Fogarty, Durdin, Fantasia type misses out. We lose our run and pressure, which i think is our key.
Of course the added benefit is the confidence boosting we are getting by letting Harry run free as backup ruck as well.

That's probably the one/two ruck debate in a nutshell.
Is it more beneficial to play two rucks or one?

It's dependent on a number of factors and variables.

1) Are Pitto and TDK uninjured and in form?
2) Who is Pittonet or Tom being replaced by?
3) What skills and abilities does the player replacing the ruckman bring to the side.
4) Does the extra 'run' from one player contribute more than a two pronged ruck attack

These are questions that can't always be easily answered.
An extra player replacing the ruckman would no doubt be a fringe player.
Many of our fringe players are actually role players, in the side for specific tasks.

When Walsh is available....
It won't be a choice between Walsh and Pittonet.
It will come down to a choice between Pittonet and a fringe player.

What impact can a fringe player can have on the outcome of a game.
There may be an advantage in some games, but surely not every game.
So each game must be looked at in terms of the best side, matching up against opposition strengths and weaknesses.

In respect of Harry doing the second rucking work....it's working well three games in.
Will it be working well 20 games in, or will Harry suffer the same fatigue and stress, that Jack Silvagni experienced when called upon to perform that role.

The thing is we have options, we have the ability to manage players.
We can rotate them around, even rest them if the oppostion doesn't require them to perform a role that week.
28
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 4 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle in Adelaide
Quote from: kruddler on
Save that hail mary stuff for a final.

It will both catch the opposition off guard and will give TDK a chance to play there before the chance that his confidence could be sucked out of him.

Worst thing to do is play him there and ruin his confidence in both ruck and defense.

Worst thing to do is become predictable.
Worst thing to do is close your mind to options and possibilities.

But while something is working it's unlikely there will be much change.
29
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 4 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle in Adelaide
Quote from: DJC on
From a couple of supporters and I'm not sure that the MC will treat their contribution all that seriously  :)

When it was a bit of a toss-up between Tom and Pitto last year some commentators (David King, Gerard Healy ) were suggesting DeKoning should be tried in defence.
The club decided otherwise...
Given his ruck form this year it's an unliklely move.
It's an out of the box move.
An unpredictable one.
Sometimes the unpredictable is a good option.
But it takes courage because it can just as easily backfire.
And it's even more of a risk when  something is working well...so probably not.

The question of who comes into the defence is of more interest.
I will be surprised if it's Young.
30
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 4 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Fremantle in Adelaide
Quote from: kruddler on
People should know my background on the matter, but....
TDK is finally doing what we want him to do, consistently, after years of 'almosts'.....why the hell would we wanna rock the boat now just to bring Pitto in because he had a good game in the VFL.

I said all along i don't care who the hell it is, but we only need 1 ruck in the side. Shoehorning TDK into a defensive role is not fooling anyone, its still 2 rucks.

We know your thoughts Kruds
You've mentioned them before ;)  :D

I've no idea whether two rucks vs Freo would be a good idea.
I've no idea whether Tom could hold down a KPD defensive position
I'll leave that to the MC
There a bit more knowledgable than me when it comes to these things.

But I suspect there will be some games during the season when both play.
It will be a case of best match-ups and 'horses for courses'.

If it doesn't happen then I think Pittonet would (and should) be looking at a move at the end of the year.