Carlton Supporters Club

Social Club => Blah-Blah Bar => Topic started by: Lods on April 10, 2022, 11:24:45 am

Poll
Question: At the 2022 Federal Election which party will receive your first preference?
Option 1: LNP votes: 7
Option 2: ALP votes: 8
Option 3: Greens votes: 2
Option 4: One Nation votes: 0
Option 5: United Australia Party votes: 3
Option 6: Other votes: 2
Option 7: None of the Above votes: 4
Title: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 10, 2022, 11:24:45 am
And away we go....

Personally I'm looking forward to it being over.
There are forces in both major parties that are probably just holding back until there is a result.
The aftermath will be the most interesting part. ;)
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: LP on April 10, 2022, 11:41:27 am
At The G last weekend a mate asked me this simple question, "Do you see Scomo as a two election winning Prime Minister?". I said no.

I don't see Albanese as one either, I suppose the point he was making was that you can't reward mediocrity. So I suppose I don't expect the alternative to be any better, but is that a good enough reason not to change?

It's almost like a no-win bet!

I'm hoping like hell the nutters do not end up with the balance of power, so for me it's a two party coin toss!

There are some trying to make distinctions between parties using Green or Right wing affiliations, but the reality is for every Labor / Green Eco-Terrorist association you can draw, there is a Liberal / National Neo-Nazis equivalent.
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: cookie2 on April 10, 2022, 01:13:57 pm
As one commentator on radio said this morning, it's usually a case of the incumbents losing it rather than the challengers winning it. Favouring Labour at the moment but I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: Lods on April 12, 2022, 08:45:26 am
Albo has a bit of a slip up.
Yep it was kind of a biggie...but best to get those out of the way early.

Watch the journos try to trip up the pollies with questions they should know the answers to in the next couple of days.
The Politicians should hit the books and swot up now.

What is the capital of Ecuador?
Who is buried in Grant's tomb? :D

They'll need to know all the answers.  ;)  :) 
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: Thryleon on April 12, 2022, 08:51:57 am
Can anyone think of a less inspiring dynamic duo putting their hands up to be prime minister than Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese?

Meanwhile, to highlight why modern politics needs to have a good hard look at itself, I have been a voting adult since the year 2001. 

Since then, only one Prime Minister has been elected and served their entire term (Howard, unless I am mistaken).  The rest have been knifed as sitting prime minister by their own party at least once on each side of the political equation with Scomo finally bringing an end to that equation, but largely because of the pandemic and other matters really being forefront over the last few years, rather than anything he did or didnt do.

There was a saying that people get the leadership they deserve.  I wonder what we did to deserve 5 prime ministers in 11 years?

Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: Lods on April 12, 2022, 08:57:00 am
It could be worse...look at the USA ;)
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: capcom on April 12, 2022, 09:27:49 am
It could be worse...look at the USA ;)

Come November, it'll be a slaughter as they'll lose control of the House and the Senate by big big numbers.
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: LP on April 12, 2022, 09:34:30 am
Albo has a bit of a slip up.
Yep it was kind of a biggie...but best to get those out of the way early.
Not really a biggie, I'm a bit with John Howard it was a "Who Cares" moment, if the electorate decide who to vote for based on the old price of milk question then the country is already heading for a loss,

Actually, if I look at Scomo my criticism of his performance is that he gets all the price of milk stuff right but does feck all real work, he's a bit like a Carny selling smoke and mirrors tricks and nothing of substance! Our version of Trump but without all the personal abuse, lies and defamation!

God help us, you know what is going to happen, spuds like Palmer and Kelly will end up winning seats and getting the balance of power!

I can see Palmer and Kelly flying the nationalistic flag to get elected, but in office being far closer to acting as "Better Red than Dead" if the Chinese and Russian dollar$ are good enough. We ought to be worried!
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 12, 2022, 10:07:48 am
Albo is clueless, ScoMo dodgy and Palmer/Kelly want to take us back to the 60's and the Greens would know more about who won the last Eurovision than they would about global politics.
Albo should win but I don't expect any wins for the economy or average citizen..
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: LP on April 12, 2022, 10:11:42 am
Albo is clueless, ScoMo dodgy and Palmer/Kelly want to take us back to the 60's and the Greens would know more about who won the last Eurovision than they would about global politics.
Albo should win but I don't expect any wins for the economy or average citizen..
We've seen this coming for years, when they finally reached gutter level the likes of Trump and others had it lowered, and now it's the new global political norm for people like Palmer and Kelly!

Scomo is faking being asleep at the wheel, so he can wake up and claim it wasn't me. Albanese is telling us we must all play nice together as the bully steals his ice-cream. Palmer and Kelly are watching from the side lines and as the Balmy Army states about Warnie they are thinking, "I'm having some of that!"

I'm not sure the outcome is so clearly defined.
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: Baggers on April 12, 2022, 10:19:53 am
And again we vote for the lesser of the evils.

Then look at the mess in the US; a crumbling empire! We'll all be speaking Mandarin before we know it.
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: LP on April 12, 2022, 10:25:26 am
And again we vote for the lesser of the evils.

Then look at the mess in the US; a crumbling empire! We'll all be speaking Mandarin before we know it.
Xie Xie Ni

Or the way EU regional elections are going it could be, ya uchu russky, for those curious below is your local Russian Interpreter / language tutor;

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Makarov_%2828034065%29.jpeg)

Mr Markov!
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: dodge on April 12, 2022, 10:52:20 am
There must be an election.  I am one of the lucky few whose vote may actually make a difference, as Gladys (Liu) is our current member.  There is a lot of change going on with people leaving parliament in droves, it seems - be interesting to see what that means for those seats with all new candidates.

Funnily enough, about 2 weeks ago, State Labor and Labor Candidate announced funding for the development of a local sportsground should they be elected.  Gladys has just announced the same, but upped the amount.  Good to be in a tight seat, but it's going to be a pain in the rear with one-upmanship.

It will be interesting to see if pre-polling will be at the same level as last election, which essentially made the the last few weeks of the campaign redundant, as most people have probably already made up their minds.

For me, I can't stand the LNP any longer - the last two bits being the $500k + legals payout to the woman Tudge had an affair with, and a new DGR (Charity with tax deductions for donations) that has been promised $18m, given over $3m already, only received DGR status through the special exemption clause, so was given ministerial/parliamentary approval even though it still didn't meet the criteria for that.  I also don't have confidence in Albanese, but he may have a 'less weak' team.

Need to work on preference flows from the others to work out which way to go.

Do you vote on who your local member is or the party you want to get in?

Where my vote ends up going in the lower house, the upper house will be the opposite - there is no way that either party deserves full control of parliament.
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: cookie2 on April 12, 2022, 11:22:39 am
And again we vote for the lesser of the evils.

Then look at the mess in the US; a crumbling empire! We'll all be speaking Mandarin before we know it.

We usually vote for negative reasons i.e to rid ourselves of the incumbent, rather than looking too closely at what we might be letting ourselves in for.
Title: Re: Election 2022
Post by: Lods on April 12, 2022, 11:30:42 am
Poll added.
Note-you should be able to change your vote up to election day.
Don't forget- Democracy is important- Vote early and vote often :D
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on April 12, 2022, 11:36:23 am
Actually, if I look at Scomo my criticism of his performance is that he gets all the price of milk stuff right but does feck all real work, he's a bit like a Carny selling smoke and mirrors tricks and nothing of substance! Our version of Trump but without all the personal abuse, lies and defamation!

The reality is that Morrison didn't actually know the price of a litre of milk or a loaf of bread.  The fact is both items can vary wildly in costs and have done for years based on the variety available on the shelves and the fridges.  
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 12, 2022, 11:43:08 am
The reality is that Morrison didn't actually know the price of a litre of milk or a loaf of bread.  The fact is both items can vary wildly in costs and have done for years based on the variety available on the shelves and the fridges.

Yep
It's a silly question.
As we shoppers know (and most pollies and journos don't) it depends on brand and varies considerably

The problem for Scomo is that's probably the answer he should have given.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on April 12, 2022, 12:35:53 pm
The reality is that Morrison didn't actually know the price of a litre of milk or a loaf of bread.  The fact is both items can vary wildly in costs and have done for years based on the variety available on the shelves and the fridges.  

Couldn't give a rusty f*ck if SloMo doesn't know the price of milk or whatever, or if Albo doesn't know the exact unemployment figures or whatever.

What does concern me is that SloMo is a glib, shallow bullsh*tter... and Albo is about as nebulous and nondescript as you can get. Both are about as far as you can get from real leadership.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on April 12, 2022, 12:39:42 pm
Yep
It's a silly question.
As we shoppers know (and most pollies and journos don't) it depends on brand and varies considerably

The problem for Scomo is that's probably the answer he should have given.

Folks will forgive a 'not sure' or 'don't know' long before they'll forgive (if ever) guessing or pretending. We've more pressing issues than answers to these questions... which probably says more about the quality of journalism than the c0ckheads being interviewed.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on April 12, 2022, 12:40:48 pm
What Lods and I are pointing out is the stupidity of the question.  The REAL outcome is whoever loses will be replaced

EDIT ... and with what Australia has had to endure with Covid, floods, drought, fires, a trillion dollar debt and international challenges, a few in the parliament (on both sides) should shut the **** up and know who they work for.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 12, 2022, 03:47:17 pm
It could be worse...look at the USA ;)

Not sure thats much of a win really.

Its like comparing Cow poo to Chicken manure.  They both stink, and the variances are to do with the Nitrogen balance.

The main think that poo has over our politicians though, is that they are at least useful to feed your garden and grow some crops.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 12, 2022, 04:20:25 pm
Really, what choice do we have in this country? I wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire, and I don't just mean Lib and Lab.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 14, 2022, 09:11:15 am
One of the advantages of those second tier parties, who really have no chance of forming government, is that they get a bit leeway when it comes to scrutiny.
Adam Bandt can get away with a "google it mate" response when you don't know the answer.
You even get kudos for being 'witty' ::)

Albanese and Morrison don't have that luxury and would be crucified for a similar response.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on April 14, 2022, 09:30:00 am
Maybe my memory isn't so good, but this is the first time in my voting life I have no idea who to vote for, so it will probably come down to local issues and local representation. There are only two realistic Federal options, and there is barely a whisker of difference between them.

Our Feds have reached a new level of pathetic, they are genuinely bottom of the barrel.

The poll probably needs an "Undecided" option.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 14, 2022, 09:56:02 am
One of the advantages of those second tier parties, who really have no chance of forming government, is that they get a bit leeway when it comes to scrutiny.
Adam Bandt can get away with a "google it mate" response when you don't know the answer.
You even get kudos for being 'witty' ::)

Albanese and Morrison don't have that luxury and would be crucified for a similar response.

Albanese and Morrison wouldn’t get away with it because they don’t have the quick wit and delivery needed.  Bandt’s response was perfect and well beyond the capacity of Albo and Scotty, neither of whom are natural or accomplished communicators.

What interested me about that clip was the attitude of the reporter.  He seemed to be determined to skewer Bandt with his detailed but ultimately inane question.

Of course, the “Google it” response is now not available to others, but it may discourage more gotcha questions.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 14, 2022, 10:00:55 am
Maybe my memory isn't so good, but this is the first time in my voting life I have no idea who to vote for, so it will probably come down to local issues and local representation. There are only two realistic Federal options, and there is barely a whisker of difference between them.

Our Feds have reached a new level of pathetic, they are genuinely bottom of the barrel.

The poll probably needs an "Undecided" option.

I'm feeling pretty much the same way so I'm going to have a good look at local options.

The poll is set up so you can change your vote between now and polling day. So if undecided leave it for a bit or go with the side you currently lean towards.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 14, 2022, 10:09:15 am
Albanese and Morrison wouldn’t get away with it because they don’t have the quick wit and delivery needed.  Bandt’s response was perfect and well beyond the capacity of Albo and Scotty, neither of whom are natural or accomplished communicators.

What interested me about that clip was the attitude of the reporter.  He seemed to be determined to skewer Bandt with his detailed but ultimately inane question.

Of course, the “Google it” response is now not available to others, but it may discourage more gotcha questions.

Do you reckon Albanese would have got away with "Google it" on such a key figure as the unemployment rate...No way in the world. It would have been seen as not taking it seriously and being disrespectful...and as good as an acknowledgement he didn't know the answer.

There are different standards.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on April 14, 2022, 10:17:29 am
Do you reckon Albanese would have got away with "Google it" on such a key figure as the unemployment rate...
Albanese should have been ready for a price of milk question, he didn't need to have the answer but he should have been able to demonstrate an ability to get his own message out. After all, since when do politicians answer questions.

Bandt's "Google It" response might not fly for Scomo or Albanese, but the rest of Bandt's response was on the money, the debate should be about policies not trivia and fact checking.

Scomo should almost be relabelled Prime Minister of Trivia, he gives you no substance whatsoever. Albanese has policies to talk about but they have to levered out of him like getting a tyre off a rim! Between them they are so non-committal it is simply pathetic, I have no other word to describe the situation.

Scomo is a "gunna" man, he's gunna do this, gunna do that, but in the end he does feck all! Fires in 2019, floods in 2020, thousands of people still living in tents and millions in donations hoovered up by the Red Cross and other charities never to be seen again, at least not by the intended recipients! Scomo's response basically boils down to a bunch of "gunna promises" followed up much later by "What could we have done!" He always talks about "what they are doing" or "what we are going to do", but they do not actually do anything! It looks to me like Scomo's primary skill is colluding with the NSW Right to retain his seat in the big chair.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on April 14, 2022, 10:27:00 am
Maybe my memory isn't so good, but this is the first time in my voting life I have no idea who to vote for, so it will probably come down to local issues and local representation. There are only two realistic Federal options, and there is barely a whisker of difference between them.

Our Feds have reached a new level of pathetic, they are genuinely bottom of the barrel.

The poll probably needs an "Undecided" option.

Nice summary, Spotted One. Laceratingly accurate.

Each of them has all the inspiration of mould. With apologies to the many, amazing uses for mould.

About 80% of Aussies are welded to their political ideologies and whoever leads their party of choice will not be viewed objectively - too threatening. They'll make excuses for their choice, no matter their level of incompetence, and find all manner of fault with the person representing the other side. Didn't Einstein say that such blind loyalty spoke to them no longer needing brain? Just a brain stem for breathing, walking, chewing...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on April 14, 2022, 10:33:01 am
Each of them has all the inspiration of mould. With apologies to the many, amazing uses for mould.
This is really the conundrum, because there is no way in hell though the history of Australian Politics that a bloke like Scomo gets a second gig, but the opposition is so intensely similar and pissweak I fear it will happen.

In the annals of Australian political history the Scomo section will be a name, at start date and a finish date with no other content in between, perhaps just some ellipsis!

Scomo might well be rewarded for delivering even less than mediocrity!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 14, 2022, 04:05:51 pm
Do you reckon Albanese would have got away with "Google it" on such a key figure as the unemployment rate...No way in the world. It would have been seen as not taking it seriously and being disrespectful...and as good as an acknowledgement he didn't know the answer.

There are different standards.

I don't think Albanese would have got away with it because he doesn't have the delivery or the ability to think on his feet.  Kennett would have got away with it, as would have Hawke and Keating (if Google was around then) and probably several others.  It's not just the "Google it" one-liner but the follow up highlighting key election issues that gave Bandt the points.

I'm old enough to remember Pig Iron Bob at town hall meetings and one of his favourite tactics was dismissing questions and questioners as not deserving an answer.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 14, 2022, 04:08:13 pm
The most skilful politicians are able to deflect answering the question, and then change it and deliver the message that they want people to hear.

The fact these imbeciles don't know this is amazing.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on April 14, 2022, 04:49:01 pm
The most skilful politicians are able to deflect answering the question, and then change it and deliver the message that they want people to hear.

The fact these imbeciles don't know this is amazing.

Karen Rudd turned it into an artform ....
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 14, 2022, 05:06:43 pm
The most skilful politicians are able to deflect answering the question, and then change it and deliver the message that they want people to hear.

The fact these imbeciles don't know this is amazing.
The minute a poli deflects a question, he/she is dead to me.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 14, 2022, 05:45:41 pm
I don't think Albanese would have got away with it because he doesn't have the delivery or the ability to think on his feet.  Kennett would have got away with it, as would have Hawke and Keating (if Google was around then) and probably several others.  It's not just the "Google it" one-liner but the follow up highlighting key election issues that gave Bandt the points.

But don't you think Bandt's "follow up" got lost.
I didn't hear anything about it...it was all about the 'google' bit.
That's what got the airplay on the news and in the media.

What was the message on the first day....Albo's gaffe.

Reality is the little incidents like that are going to play in the general public as much as any policy stuff.
(As much as we'd like to think otherwise.)

It will be about "what's best for me", "impressions" left by the major participants....and whether people think it's time for something different.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 14, 2022, 05:58:21 pm
Looked at the Greens policies and its High School economics with free hemp showbags.....promise the world, make everything free and let anyone into the country. Then you search on their website for how they are going to pay for all these free services and you find that we are relying on being able have a wealth tax on all the billionaires like Gina, Clive, Twiggy etc.....its a noble idea to extract from the rich and give to the poor Robin Hood style but for a party wanting to hold the balance of power they need to come up with something better.
The NY times had it right when they said name a tax and there’s a way to reduce it, delay it or not ever really pay it, if you have the right adviser. Think Joe Biden ran with a over tax the wealthy policy and it lasted about a day before it was benched and previous US Presidents including Trump of all people tried their luck as well in this area. Good luck to Adam Bandt but he wont be getting my vote based on what I read about their policies...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 14, 2022, 06:42:25 pm
Looked at the Greens policies and its High School economics with free hemp showbags.....promise the world, make everything free and let anyone into the country. Then you search on their website for how they are going to pay for all these free services and you find that we are relying on being able have a wealth tax on all the billionaires like Gina, Clive, Twiggy etc.....its a noble idea to extract from the rich and give to the poor Robin Hood style but for a party wanting to hold the balance of power they need to come up with something better.
The NY times had it right when they said name a tax and there’s a way to reduce it, delay it or not ever really pay it, if you have the right adviser. Think Joe Biden ran with a over tax the wealthy policy and it lasted about a day before it was benched and previous US Presidents including Trump of all people tried their luck as well in this area. Good luck to Adam Bandt but he wont be getting my vote based on what I read about their policies...

I wouldn't let them run a milk bar let alone a country. Their bright idea is Tax the living hell out of billionaires and get them give up their profits to fund the bludgers. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on April 14, 2022, 06:48:39 pm
This is really the conundrum, because there is no way in hell though the history of Australian Politics that a bloke like Scomo gets a second gig, but the opposition is so intensely similar and pissweak I fear it will happen.

In the annals of Australian political history the Scomo section will be a name, at start date and a finish date with no other content in between, perhaps just some ellipsis!

Scomo might well be rewarded for delivering even less than mediocrity!

Sad but true. A hark back to the dark days for the LP when they kept putting up lame opponents to Howard... who was very beatable, but was a political animal.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on April 14, 2022, 06:49:53 pm
I was wondering where the old saying, "Like having nothing, twice," came from. Now we know.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on April 14, 2022, 07:02:13 pm
I wouldn't let them run a milk bar let alone a country. Their bright idea is Tax the living hell out of billionaires and get them give up their profits to fund the bludgers. Good luck with that.

Unfortunately, I viewed his speech ... OZ to become a net exporter of green energy?

Really?  What a tool.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 14, 2022, 09:20:40 pm
Unfortunately, I viewed his speech ... OZ to become a net exporter of green energy?

Really?  What a tool.
They are an embarrassment Cap.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 16, 2022, 07:19:05 pm
Electile dysfunction; the failure to be aroused by any of the political parties nominating candidates for the coming election.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on April 16, 2022, 07:57:51 pm
Electile dysfunction; the failure to be aroused by any of the political parties nominating candidates for the coming election.

I've never made this comment before... anywhere. But that, David, is the post of the year.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 17, 2022, 12:01:42 pm
Looked at the Greens policies and its High School economics with free hemp showbags.....promise the world, make everything free and let anyone into the country. Then you search on their website for how they are going to pay for all these free services and you find that we are relying on being able have a wealth tax on all the billionaires like Gina, Clive, Twiggy etc.....its a noble idea to extract from the rich and give to the poor Robin Hood style but for a party wanting to hold the balance of power they need to come up with something better.
The NY times had it right when they said name a tax and there’s a way to reduce it, delay it or not ever really pay it, if you have the right adviser. Think Joe Biden ran with a over tax the wealthy policy and it lasted about a day before it was benched and previous US Presidents including Trump of all people tried their luck as well in this area. Good luck to Adam Bandt but he wont be getting my vote based on what I read about their policies...


The Greens, like all other minor parties past, present and future, can promise whatever they like because they’ll never have the chance to implement their policies.

They will do whatever they can to get bums on seats in the Senate and maybe jag a seat or two in the House of Reps.

It’s a bit like the National Party’s policies that are quietly forgotten in coalition.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 17, 2022, 12:02:33 pm
The Greens, like all other minor parties past, present and future, can promise whatever they like because they’ll never have the chance to implement their policies.


Their policies are unimplementable.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on April 17, 2022, 12:05:29 pm
Their policies are unimplementable.
None of the minors parties have functional policies, when they gain some power they get exposed to the bureaucracy that has the job of distinguishing pipe dreams from reality.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on April 26, 2022, 11:13:30 am
It's a hell of a tell about where society is heading, when Scomo's coalition start painting the countries conservative elite as victims of social, racial, secular or homophobic abuse.

It's a tactic straight out of the woke socialist movement.

I suppose doing this presents the coalition's critics with a conscience conundrum, it's a bit hard to claim your entitled to your own "self truth" only to then deny others the same. If you try to argue otherwise you basically provide your opponent with ammunition to shoot you down in public forums.

Of course, "self truth" is just a personal fallacy that your own importance and opinion really matters. The underlying concept that there are species of truth like there are species of birds is quite absurd!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 05, 2022, 10:54:50 pm
I'll just preface this by saying I'm very much a centrist in terms of my political viewpoints and I voted for a different party in the last State election than the one I voted for in the last Federal election.
I'm still very much undecided about this one.
But something that won't influence my vote one iota is Albanese not getting 10/10 on his oral exam.

Now it's a given that Anthony Albanese should be across some of the major points of his parties policies and also pretty up to date with major statistics.

But for heavens sake.
It's now all about trapping Albo.
It's Albo hunting season.
The journos are not interested in general policy, they're only interested in the kill.

They are falling over themselves to be the ones to get him to fumble with an answer...and they are the ones who are ending up looking stupid as they try to trap him.
It may hurt him, the optics aren't great, but...
Rather than being a negative, a lot of ordinary, undecided folks would be sympathetic to him being subjected to this rubbish.

The interview with Allison Langdon on channel 9 this morning was actually cringeworthy, and a pointless waste of time, as she made a big deal about him referring questions to the accompanying shadow ministers at pressers. The folks who actually had responsibility for those portfolios.
What's the point of having them there if they aren't there for a question or two.

The NDIS problem later in the day was probably a bit more damaging, but the bloke isn't a robot, and you would have to be a computer brain to remember every point of your plans across the entire spectrum of your policy.
The question asking him to specifically name each point was designed not to garner a policy position. It was designed to catch him out.

The journos have now turned their focus to this form of questioning.

It's what's getting publicity...and kudos amongst their peers.
Langdon's mates were giggling in the background while she went at Albo.
I'm sure they'll catch Morrison out at some stage...they've tried already.

Excuse the rant, I'm a big believer in fairness, and I find this type of stuff just childish.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 05, 2022, 11:15:34 pm
I thought the Cash rate and unemployment figures were numbers Albanese should have known especially with an election coming up, homeowners with loans, small business owners, self funded retirees etc and the unemployed would want their PM knowing those figures which are central to policy debate IMHO....I dont vote for either ScoMo or Albo but neither have done anything to change my mind given their performances so far. In fact Albanese has done more to lose the election than win it and I think Labor should reduce his time in the front line so he doesnt stuff up under pressure like he has been doing. In fact the Labor frontline of Albo and Jim Chalmers are not the greatest political performers IMO. Frydenberg and ScoMo are more polished media performers IMO but have an arrogance that I find annoying especially Frydenberg who fancies himself as next leader of the LP and future PM material, just dont like his personality.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mantis on May 06, 2022, 03:43:45 am
Voting in politics is probably the most difficult thing in life you could ever do. If you actually understood politics enough to judge what best suits your future life. Based on policies and promises. If they are to hold candidates accountable. Then you really have a choice between a candidate I don’t trust and hate based on previous performance. Obviously as he or should I say she was elected in the last election, that hasn’t given me what I found as a fair way for run the state or country. Possibly telling porky pies before their entry into their seat to give me confidence they should do what is best for the people.

Then we all need to consider if we give votes to other parties, the key thing to consider is which parties work in close connections to hold power when all votes are collected but also which party members have a close connection. Then the independent party members have the same effect to the end scenario. So how do we really cast our vote. They sell less of what they have to offer, but more of what the other candidate can’t or will fail to deliver. Then the media has their spin. Their way to slag candidates. Which will always influence the end result in some way. I could tell you who I would vote for in the next state and federal elections. Neither options are great by any means. I haven’t made a choice due to a lack of trust or track record. Hence I can tell you nothing. Probably what most, or some have been feeling the same way for some time like me. I don’t want to be disrespectful and say choosing between dumb and dumber. It isn’t the nice thing to say.

It just appears that we are probably in a place the we have been struck hard financially by the effects of covid in the last few years, and this has had a huge financial impact on the state and federal deficit. How we recover over a very long period of time depends on how this government manages taxes. Where to spend, and where to not spend just to keep the masses happy. Stop keeping the masses happy. Do what is best for the people in total. CPI is higher than it was in previous years. Interest rates are on the rise to suit. Living standards are not going to get easier for the dollars you earn. Including utility bills on a rise soon. Even though fuel prices taking a small reduction which will only be for another few months.

Why are we confused? Does the question need to be asked? Educate us based on truth. I actually don’t remember a time that I had less conviction for candidates to elect into power. Have they all reached a high standard that it makes it difficult to select a winner? Have they all just become the bottom dwellers that we have nothing else to chose from. I once again apologise for sarcasm.

I just hope the media doesn’t help create additional problems in our process of how to move forwards. The media would never have their own agenda. (How do I add rolling eyes, and a f#@k you look on my face). Sh1t. Now I might offend members in the media. [email protected]#k me. I know, I know. I reversed the characters to confuse the mods. Vote with what you feel right. It is hard to do all of the research. It is a gamble. It is life. Ignore the consequences. That comes as a result. Best of luck.



Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 06, 2022, 06:08:51 am
I think people on here should stop thinking of the media as independent news tellers looking to make a buck.

Its arguable they are political propaganda tools and the fact that they are trying their best to make a candidate look bad is a tell that they are more likely to be liberal party propaganda tools.

They won't all be.  Some will be labor tools. 

If the independents didn't include such vile characters they would be getting my vote just to send a stern message to the status quo.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 06, 2022, 07:10:49 am
I think people on here should stop thinking of the media as independent news tellers looking to make a buck.

Its arguable they are political propaganda tools and the fact that they are trying their best to make a candidate look bad is a tell that they are more likely to be liberal party propaganda tools.

They won't all be.  Some will be labor tools. 

If the independents didn't include such vile characters they would be getting my vote just to send a stern message to the status quo.

That's true to a large extent but a quick check of the journalists background or relationships will often identify that bias.
What I'm concerned about is the 'gotcha' type of questioning that seems to be the sport of some of the journalists these days.
It's a game to them, and it's getting sillier, and they're egging each other on.
I'm expecting it to degenerate into questions like "What is the capital of the Solomon Islands?"

Just a reminder it's not a Labor /LNP thing...Morrison was targeted with a price of groceries question early in (or just before) the campaign.
Another stupid question... because the price can differ significantly depending on the brand.

I've noticed overnight it's become a bit of an issue, with others now pointing out how silly (and poor) it's become.



Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 06, 2022, 08:10:18 am
That's true to a large extent but a quick check of the journalists background or relationships will often identify that bias.
What I'm concerned about is the 'gotcha' type of questioning that seems to be the sport of some of the journalists these days.
It's a game to them, and it's getting sillier, and they're egging each other on.
I'm expecting it to degenerate into questions like "What is the capital of the Solomon Islands?"

Just a reminder it's not a Labor /LNP thing...Morrison was targeted with a price of groceries question early in (or just before) the campaign.
Another stupid question... because the price can differ significantly depending on the brand.

I've noticed overnight it's become a bit of an issue, with others now pointing out how silly (and poor) it's become.
The rules that apply to political reporting apply to sports reporting and all reporting, it's no longer professional, the aim is to collect hits and all you need is a twatter type grab to achieve your goal.

Perhaps we should stop referring to them as journalists and start calling them by what Murdoch has made them, bloggers.

I find it quite amusing that people write me off as paranoid about the way Carlton seems to be treated in the media, dismissing any suggestion of a media bias as my navy blue perspective, then many of the same posters spend time highlighting how the media is biased in the political debates!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 06, 2022, 08:42:12 am
Take a look at Monique Ryan yesterday, debating Frydenburg in Kooyong.  She might as well have announced she was pulling out from the race.

She believes China should be treated with ‘sensitivity and respect’  Independent Kooyong candidate Monique Ryan has criticised the Morrison government’s “macho, breast beating belligerence” toward China.

“China is our biggest trade partner, and the relationship with our biggest trade partner should be treated with respect and sensitivity."

And she also wants to boost the refugee intake by 50%. !!!

She was a downright bloody disaster and left the forum without talking to or greeting anyone.

What a princess !!!!!! 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 06, 2022, 09:04:24 am
She's basically a 'single issue' candidate and constantly turned a lot of questions back to the climate.
Another Zali Steggal.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 06, 2022, 09:13:30 am
The rules that apply to political reporting apply to sports reporting and all reporting, it's no longer professional, the aim is to collect hits and all you need is a twatter type grab to achieve your goal.

Perhaps we should stop referring to them as journalists and start calling them by what Murdoch has made them, bloggers.

I find it quite amusing that people write me off as paranoid about the way Carlton seems to be treated in the media, dismissing any suggestion of a media bias as my navy blue perspective, then many of the same posters spend time highlighting how the media is biased in the political debates!

I don't necessarily think it's a bias in the political reporting at the moment.
It's more a 'falling over themselves' to be the one to make a hit on the politician.
It's a 'Look at me, aren't I clever'
It's not specifically targeting any side and they'll take the 'kill' wherever they can get it.
Albo's under the pump at the moment.
These vultures can sense a vulnerability and it is clearly taking a toll on him.
They won't back off, they'll double down.
I'm sure he's starting to dread any press stops.
He won't know what's coming at him.

Some may say 'That's politics' ::)
You're right when you say it's not journalism.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 06, 2022, 09:14:45 am
Clueless and not unexpected Lods
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 06, 2022, 09:51:39 am
She's basically a 'single issue' candidate and constantly turned a lot of questions back to the climate.
Another Zali Steggal.
They get elected on single issues they cannot possibly have an impact on, reality bites once they get exposed to the real world of the bureaucracy. You see it more in local government, councils try to ban nuclear energy, gas cooking or having backyard barbecues like it actually means something.

In my opinion they are an economic and social disaster waiting to happen, Bob Brown is a prime example, had some meritorious ideas but much of it leads to nothing and it's really when the bigger parties see a political win that something happens. Then the likes of Brown claim the high ground, in reality not having done that that much to effect a change.

Being the first to crow doesn't make you the cock of the walk!

You get players like Lidia Thorpe, abusing police on the front line of violent protests, she shouldn't just be kicked out of politics she should be charged for bringing society into disrepute. In effect she verbals all of us. I'm all for defending the rights of genuine refugees, but crooks and charlatans sneaking into Australia via refugee channels are not genuine refugees. The people Thorpe protested against yesterday had been exposed by DFAT to include some who escaped charges of rape, theft, extortion and murder in their own country.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 06, 2022, 10:03:32 am
Albanese needs to go back into isolation.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 06, 2022, 10:51:01 am
He certainly lost his cool this morning. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 06, 2022, 11:02:07 am
Turnbull is correct, he isn't being vindictive he is just telling the public how it is, and what he states is basically the reason why teal exists as the new blue!

Blue has been infiltrated by the hard right, Scomo and Perrottet pander to the new order fundamentalists, some on the opposing(red) side of politics will try to paint all the opposition as a new world order. Reality is factions on both sides, red or blue, have hijacked the parties. On the blue side this stems from weak leadership during the Abbott years, on the red side it's diffusion of policy with green agendas that has been going on for decades since Peter Garrett was a lad!

If blue moderate's like Turnbull fail to stand up and identify the rot, if they fail to single out the whiteants, in the ranks then their party will be forever lost!

An inherent weakness in Albanese's seems to be his unwillingness or inability to call out factions on his own side of politics. He is the embodiment of the weak creation of factional compromise. The Red side needs someone like Tunrbull to call out the whiteants on it's side of the ant hill!

The problem I have is this, modern media join in with the crowd to throw rocks rather than offer analysis and investigation, it's really lowest common denominator stuff, opinion rather than reporting. The people who are charged with guiding the public, the Fourth Estate, actually now incite the turmoil.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 06, 2022, 11:32:35 am
Turnbull is correct, he isn't being vindictive he is just telling the public how it is

Perhaps you missed the embarrassing exposé on this ego driven "Team Turnbull" goose and subsequently losing 14 Coalition seats come the next election.  He white anted anyone who stood against him.  Useless diesel subs alone was a 90 million dollar waste.  He got everything he deserved
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 06, 2022, 11:36:34 am
Perhaps you missed the embarrassing exposé on this ego driven "Team Turnbull" goose and subsequently losing 14 Coalition seats come the next election.  He white anted anyone who stood against him.  Useless diesel subs alone was a 90 million dollar waste.  He got everything he deserved
A bigger F-wit in politics you will not meet. Oh wait, there is Albo:):)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 06, 2022, 12:15:11 pm
Hard right.  Australia doesn't have a hard right political party.  At best they are centrists, at worst lefties (and conservative at that).

We as a society are rather left in general, so even our more conservative parties seem hard right, but the reality is, that they are just right of general society and they are arguably more centrist in nature leaning right. 

The tell is, that regardless of whom wins the election, our policies, method of government, freedoms, etc, don't vary wildly (aside from the Knights and Dames crap the Abbott Government came up with).

The One Nation and Clive Palmer types are the ones that present as more Hard Right, and even they arent that ridiculous.

It has been hijacked by the Greenies over the last 20 years to present Australia as having a Hard Right party and that is an easy win for the Labor party, but in reality during the pandemic, we have seen the biggest Draconian enforcement of rules and regulations I have personally witnessed in my 40 years on this earth.



Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 06, 2022, 01:04:46 pm
Hard right.  Australia doesn't have a hard right political party.  At best they are centrists, at worst lefties (and conservative at that).
I think it's not wise to write off the right just because it hasn't a aggressive public face, they may not be overt but they share policies and ethos that are every bit as right leaning as any other, they just won't state it publicly because too much of what they truly believe is shared with the likes of Hanson or Christensen and is seen as political poison in the party that hosts them.

But they are one or two candidates / seats likes Deves from being chock full of confidence and then you will see them become more prominent!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 06, 2022, 01:06:26 pm
I think it's not wise to write off the right just because it hasn't a aggressive public face, they may not be overt but they share policies and ethos that are every bit as right leaning as any other, they just won't state it publicly because too much of what they truly believe is shared with the likes of Hanson or Christensen and is seen as political poison in the party that hosts them.

But they are one or two candidates / seats likes Deves from being chock full of confidence and then you will see them become more prominent!
Thats like calling the Lefties communist.

We don't have that style of politics in Australia LP.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 06, 2022, 01:09:20 pm
but in reality during the pandemic, we have seen the biggest Draconian enforcement of rules and regulations I have personally witnessed in my 40 years on this earth.
Not really, my global contacts do not reflect that at all, it is just presented in the media that way, as each week passes we see more and more examples of just how moderate our "brutal lockdown" actually was compared to other global locations. For example my UK contacts tell me they are paying a very high price for freedoms in the UK, as your brother may know!

So it's a bit of a grass is greener argument made by disgruntled locals, that "somewhere over there" has it better!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 06, 2022, 01:10:19 pm
We don't have that style of politics in Australia LP.
Not with a public face, but it is there, hidden from view. If it's allowed to flourish our sons and daughters will share less liberty than us.

Our generation complaining about the brutality of leadership in things like the recent "harsh lockdowns" just plays directly into the hands of the extremists, they want you to believe you've been hard done by, it's the currency they deal in. But they are not for all Australians, as you well know!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 06, 2022, 01:54:07 pm
Not really, my global contacts do not reflect that at all, it is just presented in the media that way, as each week passes we see more and more examples of just how moderate our "brutal lockdown" actually was compared to other global locations. For example my UK contacts tell me they are paying a very high price for freedoms in the UK, as your brother may know!

So it's a bit of a grass is greener argument made by disgruntled locals, that "somewhere over there" has it better!
I think the fact the Liberals advertising with the puppet Albo ads and linking him to Premier Andrews reinforces what Thry is suggesting.Andrews was a prime enforcer of Draconian laws and none too popular and the Libs want to exploit that unpopularity by linking him to Albo and painting the latter as a weak leader..
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 06, 2022, 02:12:46 pm
I think the fact the Liberals advertising with the puppet Albo ads and linking him to Premier Andrews reinforces what Thry is suggesting.Andrews was a prime enforcer of Draconian laws and none too popular and the Libs want to exploit that unpopularity by linking him to Albo and painting the latter as a weak leader..
Regardless of what locals think, the relative global view is the truth of the matter.

Claiming to be hard done by has become the countries national pastime, but God help these complaining people if China roll on south, then they will know what hard done by means on the global scale. Actually God won't help them either.

Life is so tough for them, let's see how Lydia Thorpe goes abusing Xi's security force!

A little global perspective wouldn't hurt some of these people, it might hopefully stop them complaining about how tough they have got it. They might collect a new definition of oppressed.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 06, 2022, 02:31:19 pm
A lot of candidates being outed as not living in their electorate, seems reasonable.

However, I'd ask this question, on working in or running a business in an electorate versus living there. If I live in one electorate and operate a business with employees in another electorate, should I be able to nominate for either location?

To me being an employer in an electorate is just as valid as a form of residency, perhaps even more valid given many might move house several times but maintain the physical location of a factory, store or pub!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Professer E on May 06, 2022, 02:36:17 pm
Ironic the Libs going with the 'puppet' and 'incompetent' schtick,  considering their woeful management,  lack of any responsibility and the strings in the background being pulled by the NSW right.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 06, 2022, 02:36:37 pm
That's what happens for the City of Melbourne election - you own a business in there or live there, you vote.  I think it may even mean that some people who do both get more than one vote
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 06, 2022, 04:34:27 pm
Ill give you a real life example of local members in action.
I think I have told this story but many years ago, we had issues in our street and area with young louts. I emailed then local member Martin Ferguson and bang, instant action by him and the local plods, problem solved for good.
I recently emailed local member Ged Kearney about problem in my local park, farken oxygen thief is all I'll say (once she eventually replied). Handballed me Greg Williams style to oxygen thief no 2 in Kat Theophanous.
Similar situations years appart, same party, totally different outcomes. Wouldn't vote for today's Labour version if my life depended on it.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 06, 2022, 05:44:02 pm
A lot of candidates being outed as not living in their electorate, seems reasonable.

However, I'd ask this question, on working in or running a business in an electorate versus living there. If I live in one electorate and operate a business with employees in another electorate, should I be able to nominate for either location?

To me being an employer in an electorate is just as valid as a form of residency, perhaps even more valid given many might move house several times but maintain the physical location of a factory, store or pub!

I reckon that's probably fair enough.
You're probably employing people from the electorate your business is in so you would be across their concerns.

I think it's more of a problem if you're standing in  Townsville and you live in Pakenham as a One Nation candidate seems to be.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 06, 2022, 10:52:17 pm
Not with a public face, but it is there, hidden from view. If it's allowed to flourish our sons and daughters will share less liberty than us.

Our generation complaining about the brutality of leadership in things like the recent "harsh lockdowns" just plays directly into the hands of the extremists, they want you to believe you've been hard done by, it's the currency they deal in. But they are not for all Australians, as you well know!

Not sure if you've noticed but we don't have the freedoms we used to already.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 06, 2022, 11:06:55 pm
We certainly don't @Thryleon ... look no further than our own backyard under andrews.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 06, 2022, 11:48:53 pm
Not sure if you've noticed but we don't have the freedoms we used to already.
🤣
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 07, 2022, 04:36:47 pm
The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) has always been an outspoken defender of civil liberties. So ... they'd rail against vaccine mandates, right? Wrong!
Quote
Do vaccine mandates violate civil liberties? Some who have refused vaccination claim as much.

We disagree.

At the ACLU, we are not shy about defending civil liberties, even when they are very unpopular. But we see no civil liberties problem with requiring Covid-19 vaccines in most circumstances.

While the permissibility of requiring vaccines for particular diseases depends on several factors, when it comes to Covid-19, all considerations point in the same direction. The disease is highly transmissible, serious and often lethal; the vaccines are safe and effective; and crucially there is no equally effective alternative available to protect public health.

In fact, far from compromising civil liberties, vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties. They protect the most vulnerable among us, including people with disabilities and fragile immune systems, children too young to be vaccinated and communities of color hit hard by the disease.

Vaccine requirements also safeguard those whose work involves regular exposure to the public, like teachers, doctors and nurses, bus drivers and grocery store employees. And by inoculating people from the disease’s worst effects, the vaccines offer the promise of restoring to all of us our most basic liberties, eventually allowing us to return safely to life as we knew it, in schools and at houses of worship and political meetings, not to mention at restaurants, bars, and gatherings with family and friends.

Here’s why civil liberties objections to Covid vaccine mandates are generally unfounded.

Vaccines are a justifiable intrusion on autonomy and bodily integrity. That may sound ominous, because we all have the fundamental right to bodily integrity and to make our own health care decisions. But these rights are not absolute. They do not include the right to inflict harm on others.

While vaccine mandates are not always permissible, they rarely run afoul of civil liberties when they involve highly infectious and devastating diseases like Covid-19. Although this disease is novel, vaccine mandates are not. Schools, health care facilities, the U.S. military and many other institutions have long required vaccination for contagious diseases like mumps and measles that pose far less risk than the coronavirus does today.

In the United States alone, more than 39 million people have been infected with Covid-19 and more than 600,000 people have died. People with intellectual and physical disabilities are more likely to contract Covid-19, and they have much higher rates of hospitalization and death. Children’s hospitals in Georgia, Louisiana and other states are reporting high admissions of infected patients, and many are running out of beds.

Even though the F.D.A. and independent medical experts have found Covid-19 vaccines to be extremely safe and highly effective, a sizable portion of the eligible population has chosen not to be vaccinated. In this context, Covid-19 vaccine mandates — much like mask mandates — are public health measures necessary to protect people from severe illness and death. They are therefore permissible in many settings where the unvaccinated pose a risk to others, including schools and universities, hospitals, restaurants and bars, workplaces and businesses open to the public.

https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-and-vaccine-mandates-heres-our-take (https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-and-vaccine-mandates-heres-our-take)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 07, 2022, 05:23:39 pm
Not sure if you've noticed but we don't have the freedoms we used to already.
I wouldn't judge restrictions during a pandemic as loss of freedom.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 07, 2022, 06:06:54 pm
I wouldn't judge restrictions during a pandemic as loss of freedom.

Drive at 30km an hour down Wellington Street has SFA to do with the pandemic.

Likewise my wife losing her brand new moisturiser before boarding a flight because it was over 100mls.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 07, 2022, 06:46:03 pm
Mygov, mygovid, director ids, know your client - to name a few - compliance for government requirements is increasing - they know more and more about us!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 07, 2022, 07:48:38 pm
Likewise my wife losing her brand new moisturiser before boarding a flight because it was over 100mls.

Unfortunately Thry, the carriage of LAGs (liquids aerosols gels) is 2006 IATA legislation followed by all airlines.  Those restrictions (by law) must be included in the (pdf) terms and restrictions when you purchase a ticket or viewed on the respective carrier websites before parting with your hard earned.  ;)  

Sad, but true
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 07, 2022, 08:06:03 pm
Drive at 30km an hour down Wellington Street has SFA to do with the pandemic.

Likewise my wife losing her brand new moisturiser before boarding a flight because it was over 100mls.
Are you being serious or taking the piss?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 07, 2022, 08:13:39 pm
My oldest is still feeling the effects of missing half of 4 year old kinder and half of prep.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 07, 2022, 11:13:37 pm
First world problems are devistating.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 08, 2022, 06:38:25 am
My oldest is still feeling the effects of missing half of 4 year old kinder and half of prep.
Indeed, my wife is a teacher so I know exactly what you mean but these have been a unique set of circumstances that have screwed with the entire globe.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 08, 2022, 08:05:55 am
Are you being serious or taking the piss?

Sorry do I have to give you a list of all things that aren't what they used to be or can I just give you some exams to help point you in the direction of examining life and thinking what happened?

I'll give you some more.  Try cut down a native tree on your property.

Do some building works that are over 15k without a permit.

I got a passout at the footy and had to show my QR code a second time on reentry recently.

Ive been paying to see a GP for the last few years because the others in the area are either booked for a week, or just certificate bulk billers who can't help you with any real health issues.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 08, 2022, 08:44:56 am
I don't know, some things are more restrictive, but just thinking back....

They used to close the pubs at 6.00pm

You had to have a licence to watch television.

They'd pull a marble out of a barrel and send you overseas to fight in a dubious war in a steamy jungle.

Same sex relationships were a criminal offence.

I reckon (pandemic restrictions aside) we're probably a lot freer than we've ever been.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 08, 2022, 09:13:41 am
Equally, there are plenty of examples where our rights have been stripped away @Lods

But I sure do remember TV licences, a pernicious and disgusting tax that, amazingly, still exists in the U.K.  They're that far out of touch, a different rate applies between colour and black & white. 

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Professer E on May 08, 2022, 10:15:43 am
Talking about shameless, the weekend Australian, so-called "journalism"
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 09, 2022, 12:27:10 pm
So it's pretty much confirmed, hardly a policy discussed, and debate voted on by sledging, innuendo and shouts, more like an episode of MAFS than a discussion to find someone worthy of being elected. The race to the bottom of the barrel.

This is a huge problem for all of us, because the major parties have become so so bad the big winners are undoubtedly going to be the Nuffies!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 09, 2022, 12:49:04 pm
So it's pretty much confirmed, hardly a policy discussed, and debate voted on by sledging, innuendo and shouts, more like an episode of MAFS than a discussion to find someone worthy of being elected. The race to the bottom of the barrel.

This is a huge problem for all of us, because the major parties have become so so bad the big winners are undoubtedly going to be the Nuffies!

Crucial errors made by both of them.  The next few years will be chaos with largely unrepresented swill.  Only then will people wake up into whose hands they've played.



Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 09, 2022, 01:36:20 pm
Uninspiring choices have been a common theme in Australian elections for some years. I reckon we've just about reached the bottom of the barrel.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 09, 2022, 08:16:47 pm
Uninspiring choices have been a common theme in Australian elections for some years. I reckon we've just about reached the bottom of the barrel.

Doubt we've reached the bottom of it yet, we are trending down at a fast rate of knots with respect to Poli IQ so the future looks ever more bleak if you ask me. As George Constanza once said:
Jerry: You have no idea what an idiot is. Elaine just gave me a chance to get out and I didn't take it. This (pointing to himself) is an idiot.
George: Is that right? I just threw away a lifetime of guilt-free sex, and floor seats for every sporting event in Madison Square Garden. So please, a little respect, for I am Costanza, Lord of the Idiots.
Roxanne: (Yelling out the window) You're all winners!
George: But suddenly, a new contender has emerged.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 09, 2022, 08:37:25 pm
Doubt we've reached the bottom of it yet, we are trending down at a fast rate of knots with respect to Poli IQ so the future looks ever more bleak if you ask me.

And, much to my dismay, it'll come down to preferences imo
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 09, 2022, 08:40:46 pm
Doubt we've reached the bottom of it yet, we are trending down at a fast rate of knots with respect to Poli IQ so the future looks ever more bleak if you ask me. As George Constanza once said:
Jerry: You have no idea what an idiot is. Elaine just gave me a chance to get out and I didn't take it. This (pointing to himself) is an idiot.
George: Is that right? I just threw away a lifetime of guilt-free sex, and floor seats for every sporting event in Madison Square Garden. So please, a little respect, for I am Costanza, Lord of the Idiots.
Roxanne: (Yelling out the window) You're all winners!
George: But suddenly, a new contender has emerged.

My favourite Seinfeld moment :))

I'm just wondering whether it's an election worth winning.
The winner is probably going to be faced with forming a minority government in what promises to be a difficult and traumatic couple of years.
It might not be the best time to be in government.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 09, 2022, 09:12:23 pm
My favourite Seinfeld moment :))

I'm just wondering whether it's an election worth winning.
The winner is probably going to be faced with forming a minority government in what promises to be a difficult and traumatic couple of years.
It might not be the best time to be in government.

Good points....fair chance there will be a recession with rising inflation numbers and interest rates rising here and in the USA.
The USA are seeing an inverted Bond Yield in relation to 10 year treasury bonds and that usually signifies a recession which will have a flow on effect down here in Australia.
Demand has dropped in China and the Ukraine war has shoved up oil prices so business is going to find it tougher and any government is going to find it harder to deliver on election promises and handle the huge debts the country has after the pandemic.
Having the loony factions like the Greens, Clive/Craig and Pauline holding the balance of power if we get a minority Government would make its a nightmare to operate and give them all their payoff requests....you add to the fact that Albo the likely winner and his treasurer elect in Jim Chalmers are economically inexperienced it doesnt bode well..
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Macca37 on May 09, 2022, 09:52:36 pm
Clive Palmer has spent untold millions of dollars in advertising over the past few months telling his mentally deficient supporters of the peril to their beloved freedoms if they vote for either the government or the opposition.

Now I hear he is telling them to direct their preferences to the government in tightly contested seats.

He is a shining example of a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 09, 2022, 10:06:36 pm
The hypocrites would be the Liberals. Bogging on about how the Teal independents are supposedly secret Labor or Green candidates while Palmer has spent the last 2 elections helping out the Liberals, but of course he's independent of them. The UAP is just a sham vote harvesting and advertising arm of the Coalition.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 09, 2022, 10:17:05 pm
I don’t think the coalition are that smart.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 09, 2022, 10:19:42 pm
The biggest short term bomb that the LNP has lit is the cut in fuel excise.  Not only did they cancel a rebate for heavy vehicles using public roads, there will be a day where petrol goes from (say) $1.55 to $1.77 overnight, only through short sighted populism.  (I saw that in some places petrol is $2.09+ - without the excise, $2.31 is a lot to pay!)

When the excise is re-introduced, if the Government is LNP, their popularity will decrease and suddenly no one will admit to voting for them.  If Labor is in power, LNP will scream blue murder about their lack of caring about the cost of living.

Another similar issue is the LMITO.  This is a tax rebate.  It has already been extended once/twice.  Similarly, if LNP is in power, their popularity will decrease rapidly (especially if the stage 3 tax cuts do proceed) once the rebate is axed.  If Labor axe it, LNP will scream about introducing new taxes.

Somewhere along the way, decreased taxes means decreased services and the local community has to pay more to keep/maintain/improve facilities which requires two things - communities that care and $$ within the community.

This is so messy, and clumsy, particularly from a government who 'wants to stay out of our lives'.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 09, 2022, 10:43:26 pm
Im actually thinking of voting independent.


Why?  Same reason a guy like Trump won an election.

These other forkwits need a rocket.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 09, 2022, 11:17:04 pm
We've got 12 people running in our electorate. 

I'm not sure who to vote for,  but I know upper and lower house will be different.

A hung parliament may mean the parties have to work with each other to get legislation through,  which might mean it is actually for the benefit of the populace.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 09, 2022, 11:35:24 pm
Im actually thinking of voting independent.


Why?  Same reason a guy like Trump won an election.

These other forkwits need a rocket.


I have in recent elections, prefer someone who lives in my electorate and has some idea of local issues as well as being able to relate to issues that are important to me and my family. Not that my vote will probably count for much given the electorate is a stronghold for one of the major parties.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 12, 2022, 01:03:35 pm
Had an interesting discussion last night with a welded on NSW Liberal. He reckons the Libs had already given up on the election, even before Deves was nominated by Scomo.

The idea is that Scomo thinks he's going to do a bit of a John Howard and has put people into place to give himself the front running to be the Liberal leader for the next election, :o and that all his most likely challengers are going to become collateral damage this election. Scomo looking after Scomo long term.

Behind the scenes, at grass roots level, the Libs membership is being decimated, with the controlling factions appearing to have sway over the more traditional types, which is apparently the motive behind the whole Teal movement!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 12, 2022, 01:36:06 pm
The Libs are goneski (Labour Landslide) if last nights "Pub Test" post the debate is any indication. I am now resigned to the fact that
 we will be represented by the dumbest PM in our history.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 12, 2022, 02:05:18 pm
Privately, I think this is the election no one is going to want to win.  The next term looks to be the most volatile in history, and you can add an impending world war as one more reason why you would rather lose this one.

Perfect election to go independant.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 12, 2022, 02:20:28 pm
Privately, I think this is the election no one is going to want to win.  The next term looks to be the most volatile in history, and you can add an impending world war as one more reason why you would rather lose this one.

Perfect election to go independant.

Not sure about the World War....I suspect it will be a Cold one.
But I think you're probably right about a win being a 'poison chalice'.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 12, 2022, 03:39:45 pm
More likely a European (NATO) War against Russia (if at happens at all) as the ccp are on their economic knees.  Anyway, think it's unlikely.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 12, 2022, 04:44:07 pm
The Libs are goneski (Labour Landslide) if last nights "Pub Test" post the debate is any indication. I am now resigned to the fact that
 we will be represented by the dumbest PM in our history.
Albo is seen as a nice bloke but doesnt come across as the sharpest polly on the block and Jim Chalmers isnt my idea of a bloke who is capable of or who has the knowledge needed to control Australia's finances.
You add Penny" the bully" Wong and its a scary future especially if the ALP have to buddy up with the Greens to govern...
Double whammy if you live in Victoria is if you cop another term of office for a corrupt Andrews Government that have fecked up the health system so badly its going backwards and thats without CoVid.
Problem is the lack of alternatives especially in Victoria...Matthew the other Guy is like the invisible man...you just dont see him or know what the policy alternatives are...just zero opposition and the LP look incapable of Governing.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 12, 2022, 04:49:16 pm
Not sure about the World War....I suspect it will be a Cold one.
But I think you're probably right about a win being a 'poison chalice'.
Couple of nuclear strikes should warm up the cold atmosphere, with Vlad indisposed and his even more nutty mate involved in running the army I'd expect an escalation of attacks from Russia with heavier weaponry aimed at the public in an effort to break the strong resistance.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 12, 2022, 04:51:13 pm
Albo is seen as a nice bloke but doesnt come across as the sharpest polly on the block

Take a long hard look at his property portfolio ... that no-one mentions.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 12, 2022, 05:15:04 pm
Take a long hard look at his property portfolio ... that no-one mentions.

I did read about a week ago he has a property portfolio worth about 5 million which is a long way from the council house in Camperdown. He is on a decent wage of nearly 400k so Id expect him to be doing something with it.
His present lady friend is in the Superannuation field and his former wife Carmel Tebutt was also a Economic grad and ex polly of some note so I think he has been around some good advice and also had some assistance in creating that portfolio.
I dont dislike Albo or Chalmers I just dont feel comfortable with their lack of experience in what are very difficult times..on the other side I dont have much time for Frydenberg or ScoMo as individuals but probably think they shade their Labor counterparts for experience and knowledge but  neither team qualify for my vote and as Thry suggested Independents who IMHO may be more locally focussed may be better alternatives. The Greens, Clive, Pauline just make it more of a sad situation in terms of choice..I just want to throw something at the TV with the flood of United Aus Party ads...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 12, 2022, 05:39:02 pm
I just want to throw something at the TV with the flood of United Aus Party ads...

I have one very low opinion of palmer.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 12, 2022, 05:44:19 pm
More likely a European (NATO) War against Russia (if at happens at all) as the ccp are on their economic knees.  Anyway, think it's unlikely.


where nato goes we can't help but get involved.

Our issues are more local than Russia anyway.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 12, 2022, 07:30:43 pm
Albo is seen as a nice bloke but doesnt come across as the sharpest polly on the block and Jim Chalmers isnt my idea of a bloke who is capable of or who has the knowledge needed to control Australia's finances.
You add Penny" the bully" Wong and its a scary future especially if the ALP have to buddy up with the Greens to govern...
Double whammy if you live in Victoria is if you cop another term of office for a corrupt Andrews Government that have fecked up the health system so badly its going backwards and thats without CoVid.
Problem is the lack of alternatives especially in Victoria...Matthew the other Guy is like the invisible man...you just dont see him or know what the policy alternatives are...just zero opposition and the LP look incapable of Governing.
A Labour Green alliance, oh the joy.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 12, 2022, 07:36:10 pm
where nato goes we can't help but get involved.

NATO countries combined?  What could we possibly add Thry?  UK, US, France and Germany would overwhelm Russia
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 12, 2022, 07:41:44 pm
A Labour Green alliance, oh the joy.

Albanese has preferenced them first almost everywhere.  But no, no shared power arrangement according to him if he failed to win a majority in his own right.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 12, 2022, 08:02:08 pm
NATO countries combined?  What could we possibly add Thry?  UK, US, France and Germany would overwhelm Russia

We always find a way to get involved.  We sent troops to Afghanistan
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 12, 2022, 08:22:31 pm
We always find a way to get involved.  We sent troops to Afghanistan

Different scenario then given our US alliance, and we're not a NATO member mate.  
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 12, 2022, 11:35:05 pm
Not sure if you've noticed but we don't have the freedoms we used to already.

Freedoms we used to have!

Let's see, back in 1972 I could:
> not buy an alcoholic drink after 10pm,
> not buy an alcoholic drink on Sunday, unless I was a bona fide traveller,
> not use a firearm on a Sunday,
> not buy a high-powered firearm without a special licence,
> be called up for two years military service,
> be sent to fight in a foreign war,
> not vote in State or Federal elections,
> be arrested for consorting,
> be imprisoned if was openly homosexual, and
> if I lived in Queensland, not take part in a demonstration.

If I happened to be a woman, I could:
> not get the contraceptive pill unless I was married,
> not legally have an abortion,
> not have the same superannuation as male colleagues,
> not work in public service roles that were limited to men,
> not leave the country without my husband's permission, and
> not keep my job if I became pregnant.

If I happened to be Indigenous, I could:
> serve my country but not receive any ex-service benefits,
> have my children taken away at the whim of the police and welfare officers, and
> be subject to the directions of the Aborigines Welfare Board.

Yes, we've certainly lost a lot of freedoms over the last 50 years  ::)




Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 13, 2022, 08:46:57 am
Freedoms we used to have!

Let's see, back in 1972 I could:
> not buy an alcoholic drink after 10pm,
> not buy an alcoholic drink on Sunday, unless I was a bona fide traveller,
> not use a firearm on a Sunday,
> not buy a high-powered firearm without a special licence,
> be called up for two years military service,
> be sent to fight in a foreign war,
> not vote in State or Federal elections,
> be arrested for consorting,
> be imprisoned if was openly homosexual, and
> if I lived in Queensland, not take part in a demonstration.

If I happened to be a woman, I could:
> not get the contraceptive pill unless I was married,
> not legally have an abortion,
> not have the same superannuation as male colleagues,
> not work in public service roles that were limited to men,
> not leave the country without my husband's permission, and
> not keep my job if I became pregnant.

If I happened to be Indigenous, I could:
> serve my country but not receive any ex-service benefits,
> have my children taken away at the whim of the police and welfare officers, and
> be subject to the directions of the Aborigines Welfare Board.

Yes, we've certainly lost a lot of freedoms over the last 50 years  ::)






Im only 40.  Perhaps you shouldnt be dismissive sighting a bunch of crap that mostly occurred before I was born.

Ill remind you at this stage, that people my age are more than likely not going to retire but work until we cark it, and you can forget about a pension and the average house price in most of the melbourne suburbs that will leave you with an average CBD commute of roughly 1 hour in each direction will cost us 1 million dollars today.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Professer E on May 13, 2022, 09:00:31 am
Hey,  I had family members die in wars for some o that stuff, I'd be more circumspect before disparaging societal gains.

BTW,  we're all going to work until we cark it,  "freedom", especially financial, is a construct, dangled like a carrot for all us wage slaves.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 13, 2022, 09:53:39 am
Governments don't want to pay for your retirement, pensions won't exist for Joe average workers in years to come as they will want you living off your superannuation. If you don't want to work for ever you start planning for retirement when you are 25 ..not taking an interest when you are 55. No one cares about your future except you and your family, educate you yourself on superannuation, the stock market and don't rely on the government, financial advisors and the like.
Peoples idea of the aged pension as a goal in life is old school thinking and I'm glad my old man told me to sacrifice when you are young so you do not have to beg when you are older and this is from a bloke who lived in the great depression, ate bread and dripping, fought in WW2 and got chucked out of home when he was 17. He retired at 57 with no pension...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 13, 2022, 10:33:16 am
Im only 40.  Perhaps you shouldnt be dismissive sighting a bunch of crap that mostly occurred before I was born.

Ill remind you at this stage, that people my age are more than likely not going to retire but work until we cark it, and you can forget about a pension and the average house price in most of the melbourne suburbs that will leave you with an average CBD commute of roughly 1 hour in each direction will cost us 1 million dollars today.

The funny thing is that at 40 I felt pretty much the same as you're feeling.
The end looked very far away and the financial concerns were such that working until I was done and dusted seemed a possible outcome.
But things worked out.

The next twenty years or so may give you a different perspective.
There will be changes to the way we do things that will ensure that.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 13, 2022, 10:47:17 am
The single most depressing aspect is many people simply don't  understand super.  And they damn well should.  No-one wants to live within their means anymore and do the hard stuff first. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 13, 2022, 12:39:01 pm
The single most depressing aspect is many people don't simply understand super.  And they damn well should.  No-one wants to simply live within their means anymore and do the hard stuff first.
A big problem at the moment is a large portion of younger people aren't doing much of either, no home ownership and no superannuation, they basically rent or live at home with mum and dad, and work in a gig economy without super.

The internet has made the current youth fatalistic, all the bad shizen gets 1000% of the noise it actually deserves by volume, and the good everyday stuff is pretty much invisible, it's a massive problem coming down the track.

It's never been easy for any generation, the idea it was easy or easier in the past is garbage spread by self-absorbed norbits, the only thing we can say definitely is that things change so the past was different to the present.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 13, 2022, 01:02:37 pm
A big problem at the moment is a large portion of younger people aren't doing much of either, no home ownership and no superannuation, they basically rent or live at home with mum and dad, and work in a gig economy without super.

The internet has made the current youth fatalistic, all the bad shizen gets 1000% of the noise it actually deserves by volume, and the good everyday stuff is pretty much invisible, it's a massive problem coming down the track.

It's never been easy for any generation, the idea it was easy or easier in the past is garbage spread by self-absorbed norbits, the only thing we can say definitely is that things change so the past was different to the present.
Agree, every generation has their challenges with how to deal with life's problems and there is no manual to guide you but your own inquisitive brain.
The answers are not all on the internet which stumps a lot of youth today who look there as their first source of information and believe most things they read. Self reliance is part of life but a lot of kids who stay at home much later than the norm with mum and dad don't want the responsibility of looking after themselves because having a good time and leaving the boring stuff to mum and dad has become a lifestyle for some of them.
Getting a degree and a job doesn't mean job done in life and that you can chill out at home and stop learning about how to to take care of yourself in the big bad world.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: cookie2 on May 13, 2022, 01:14:01 pm
Becoming knowledgeable about the true way of the world and how it functions is the most important first step in anyone's education and development imho.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 13, 2022, 01:41:09 pm
All of which makes Labor's idea of investing a percentage into first home ownership for a paltry few all the more preposterous ... when people were paying 19% interest on (what were then) still modest homes, it was one helluva shock, but nothing like what awaits.

The greatest joy I had was paying it off and getting that certificate of title before I turned 37.   
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 13, 2022, 04:50:47 pm
All of which makes Labor's idea of investing a percentage into first home ownership for a paltry few all the more preposterous ... when people were paying 19% interest on (what were then) still modest homes, it was one helluva shock, but nothing like what awaits.

The greatest joy I had was paying it off and getting that certificate of title before I turned 37.   
Paying it off?

Paying off a home.  Wonder how Ill use my second million...

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 13, 2022, 09:20:25 pm
Im only 40.  Perhaps you shouldnt be dismissive sighting a bunch of crap that mostly occurred before I was born.

Ill remind you at this stage, that people my age are more than likely not going to retire but work until we cark it, and you can forget about a pension and the average house price in most of the melbourne suburbs that will leave you with an average CBD commute of roughly 1 hour in each direction will cost us 1 million dollars today.

The point is that freedoms you take for granted weren’t available to me when I was 20.

It’s also worth noting that folk today are free from TB, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, etc; all diseases that family and friends had and some of which I had.

It’s unfortunate that time travel is fictional; folk who think they’re hard done by today wouldn’t survive if they were transported back to the mid-20th century.

My children are around your age Thry.  My daughter has substantial equity in her home and she and her husband have excellent superannuation.  My son and his wife have just bought a house about 20km north of the CBD.  They already own two apartments and are both salaried workers.  They are all very angry with our Commonwealth government for its failure to address social, economic and environmental issues but acknowledge that their lives are much easier than that of their parents and grandparents.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 13, 2022, 09:25:32 pm
Okay boomer.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 13, 2022, 09:26:50 pm
Paying it off?

Paying off a home.  Wonder how Ill use my second million...



The second million is easier than the first I’m told, so I’m giving up on the first million…

I got divorced in 2009, I had my work van and tools, a boat (not going… and a car to tow it)
It took me 10 years to be able to buy land again.
I don’t have a house, I live in a caravan in my (Uncoded) shed.
I’m not bragging, but we all make choices, I’ve made some stinkers but had a bit of fun along the way.
If home ownership is something you want, you can have it if you do what you need to… sacrifice, better choices and sometimes luck.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 13, 2022, 09:51:28 pm
Okay boomer.

Nice to get an intelligent comment for a change 😃
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 13, 2022, 09:59:50 pm
The second million is easier than the first I’m told, so I’m giving up on the first million…

I got divorced in 2009, I had my work van and tools, a boat (not going… and a car to tow it)
It took me 10 years to be able to buy land again.
I don’t have a house, I live in a caravan in my (Uncoded) shed.
I’m not bragging, but we all make choices, I’ve made some stinkers but had a bit of fun along the way.
If home ownership is something you want, you can have it if you do what you need to… sacrifice, better choices and sometimes luck.
As I get older I put less and less stock in the material stuff, it really means nothing, and I can state this from a position of experience having roamed between 1st Class and the Back row!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 13, 2022, 10:10:00 pm
Our poll doesn’t come close to the most recent Morgan poll and I suspect that’s got a fair bit to do with our population.

The ALP is leading by 2% among male voters and by 16% among female voters.  That’s not unexpected in the light of Scotty’s continual gaffs and inability to show any empathy towards issues of concern to female voters. 

I think this could be the first election decided by one party’s refusal to acknowledge that its policies and personnel are unpalatable to the majority of female voters.  That failure should also help to get some of the teal candidates over the line.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 13, 2022, 10:17:54 pm
Okay boomer.

That's actually a compliment. ;D
We had the best music, the best clothes, the best cars...and great haircuts. ;)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 13, 2022, 10:26:50 pm
Don’t get me wrong, I’d like a bit more financial security, but people who live and breathe making money, buying investments and working their balls off, always on the hustle, they just do my head in…
My other beef is people who want “wow factor” I’m a ceramic tiler and the number of people who want “wow factor” in their toilet is gob smacking… “wow” is what you say when you are busting and make it in time, it happens to all of us !

I detest the consumer society that we live in, where people buy things to impress people who if they were honest with themselves they’d admit they didn’t care for.
I’m doing a job for some sporting friends. They are building a 3 bedroom house that’s probably close to 400m2 internal with 200m2 of external tiling…
Of course there’s a “butlers pantry” 🤷🏼‍♂️
Customer says to me “No, I don’t want tiles on that part of the splashback”
It’s next to the sink I point out, she responds with “Yeah, but it’ll never get used” 🙄
I couldn’t help myself and said “What’s it for then…?” 🦗🦗🦗
🤣🤣

God I feel better getting that out 😎

People need to ask how much is enough, and everyone’s number will be different.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 13, 2022, 10:31:44 pm
That's actually a compliment. ;D
We had the best music, the best clothes, the best cars...and great haircuts. ;)

Not to mention a footy team that was regularly featuring on the last Saturday in September 🙂
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 13, 2022, 10:44:05 pm
Paying it off?

Paying off a home.  Wonder how Ill use my second million...

I just despised paying rent and my sole ambition was to buy and remain.  Which I did for decades
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 14, 2022, 12:00:39 am
That's actually a compliment. ;D
We had the best music, the best clothes, the best cars...and great haircuts. ;)
Although now there's less hair to cut (though sadly there's no discount because of that!)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 14, 2022, 11:39:45 am
Although now there's less hair to cut (though sadly there's no discount because of that!)
No more Atomic, Blondie will be very sad!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 14, 2022, 12:20:28 pm
I think Scomo has burnt his party now.

We call him Scotty from Marketing because we know he will bullshizen the Australian public about the usual political promises undelivered, we are not shocked we expect that.

But if it's true that Scotty from Marketing bullshizened the US and UK about the AUKUS Sub deal, he's gone, you just can't have that sort of bullshizen at bureaucratic and diplomatic level. He'd be dead to the US and UK now, just like he is already for France, worthless to Australia on the diplomatic stage, and we need their support more than ever before and Scomo's turned himself into diplomatic poison!

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 14, 2022, 03:19:57 pm
I think Scomo has burnt his party now.

We call him Scotty from Marketing because we know he will bullshizen the Australian public about the usual political promises undelivered, we are not shocked we expect that.

But if it's true that Scotty from Marketing bullshizened the US and UK about the AUKUS Sub deal, he's gone, you just can't have that sort of bullshizen at bureaucratic and diplomatic level. He'd be dead to the US and UK now, just like he is already for France, worthless to Australia on the diplomatic stage, and we need their support more than ever before and Scomo's turned himself into diplomatic poison!

He didn't earn the "Liar from the Shire" tag without putting in the hard yards.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 18, 2022, 09:03:36 am
Voted yesterday and it’s good to get it out of the way.  I can try to ignore the last days of the campaign 🙂

The candidates from the two major parties were both present and engaging with voters.  I didn’t recognise one of the candidates; her prominent election placards/billboards must feature a heavily photoshopped portrait.

The hardest part of voting for me was deciding who to put last on the Senate ballot paper 🙄
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: cookie2 on May 18, 2022, 09:52:16 am
I am really struggling to get interested in this election.  Major parties seem stale and uninspiring and highly glossed independents unconvincing.
Anyway I voted early a couple of days ago and got done with it.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 18, 2022, 10:05:26 am
We MUST lift this stupid ban on media blackouts.  Almost like living in the 50s.  Add a complete reveal of independent costings of plans for all parties a week prior to the day of voting.  Listening Bandt?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 18, 2022, 11:02:04 am
We postal voted, couldnt believe the long list of senate wacko wannabes, trying to find six worthy contenders wasnt easy with limited info on what each ones beliefs and ideas are.
Libs have a decent grip in my electorate so my vote isnt going to matter and I expect more of the same which was a free calendar fridge magnet each year and no further contact or information on what they were doing for my electorate.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 18, 2022, 12:01:56 pm
Libs have a decent grip in my electorate so my vote isnt going to matter and I expect more of the same which was a free calendar fridge magnet each year and no further contact or information on what they were doing for my electorate.
I wouldnt be so sure of that EB, many electorates where the gov had a strong hold are crapting the pants. I'm tipping Labour will win this in a landslide with many blue ribbon seats falling Labours way
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 18, 2022, 03:36:14 pm
I wouldnt be so sure of that EB, many electorates where the gov had a strong hold are crapting the pants. I'm tipping Labour will win this in a landslide with many blue ribbon seats falling Labours way
Traditionally, about 80% of voters are rusted on, the other 20% are variable.

It's why there are certain seats around the country that are tells.

In WA Hasluck for example is typically been rusted on +7.5% Liberal, but at the moment early poling has suggested it is 50/50 after a massive swing, but there are local issues and also a redistribution of boundaries that are affecting this result so I'm not sure it's that clear. In the TV debates the Lib boosters tried to point out to the Hasluck 50/50 split on Lib/Lab was a sign of a win, but in reality it's a about a -7% swing against the Coalition which is massive.

I suspect the more disenchanted the voters become with the likes of Scomo and Albo, the more they will vote on any local issues they can identify. I think this is why the Libs have kept blokes like Tugger Tudge under wraps. For that reason I'm not sure if Vic will swing as hard as some expect because Danger Dan is seen as a local issue.

Qld is unreadable, they are just as likely to vote numbat.

NSW want a Scomo and Parrotsay duet so they get all the love and happy clapping they need!

SA might be dead to Scomo after appointing Deves, it hard enough to ID a species in SA let alone a gender!

Some of the Coalition are making out the WA lockdown will cause a problem for Albo, but much of WA when asked about the Lockdown replied "Huh?" Lockdown doesn't mean much when you only drive to town once every six weeks for the big shop!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 18, 2022, 04:07:29 pm
Yes, the voting demographics dont change.

1.  Oldies tend to vote Labor.  Pension and health related generally.  Its why the pandemic response was lock it down hard and fast according to labor.  Protect your rusted on voters, and they will thank you for it.

2.  Public sector workers tend to vote labor.  Protects their jobs and their employee rights generally but more of these people have been alienated by the hard line stance taken to the jab than anything else, and I think the consequence is that a portion of these will swing away.

3.  Youngsters.  Idealists these days more likely to go Greens than one of the big 2 but this benefits Labor also.  The recent issues and future problems are difficult to vote on, which means the last 15 years is going to be taken into account by most voters.  This leads me to believe that they will vote independent more likely.

4.  Corporate types, and business owners are usually liberal/national types.  Protect the bottom line, and I think we will see very few of them swing away from liberal.

5.  The mixed messaging will sway a few away from the people currently residing in power and that will depend on how the local electorates have been split in the past.  This will probably mean preferences will make a big difference this time around.

I expect more people to swing in this election than ever, HOWEVER, those swingers are more likely to vote independent because if they echo my sentiments and are just disillusioned with the status quo, and we are just going to see the independents swell their numbers modestly, at the expense of the bigger types.  The "big 2" haven't covered themselves in glory for the entirety of my adult life, and whilst I stay abreast of politics, there is generally a lot of hyperbole about it here and no big issues really.  What I find more distasteful, is the way they have behaved with in fighting and PM spilling that has occurred.  About 1 of the people I have voted in has retained their Prime Minister status since I started voting and I have voted in at least 5 coming on 6 elections now.  That's a very poor return.

My expectation:  Labor and Liberals to split about 80 percent of the vote, with one of them doing enough deals to form government at Federal level and likely the status quo to generally remain with Scomo retaining the Prime Minister of Australia title thanks to the independents.  I think they are more likely to be in bed with the Liberals than Labor.

At state level, I expect things will go quite similarly to how they are now.  You will see a few people swing around, but largely things will remain as is and the balance of power will be held in all states by those currently in power.

Times are a bit tricky.  Not too much change usually occurs during a war, with a currently still ongoing pandemic threat in the background, I expect that uncertainty does no one any good, and that things will largely remain unchanged.  We are in for a rough ride regardless who gets in anyway based on the tea leaves economically.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 18, 2022, 05:22:58 pm
I wouldnt be so sure of that EB, many electorates where the gov had a strong hold are crapting the pants. I'm tipping Labour will win this in a landslide with many blue ribbon seats falling Labours way
Kevin Andrews was welded on  and only recently retired after getting knocked over in a preselection tussle.
Libs have never lost the seat...
The new Liberal candidate has a very impressive CV being a Barrister and ex Afghan war commando/platoon leader and has had a very hardcore marketing campaign to promote him even with TV advertising, the labor opposition has hardly been seen or heard of during the campaign and I'm not sure Labor have done her any favours or maybe dont rate her chances and didnt want to spend too many dollars trying to market her.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 18, 2022, 05:44:59 pm
Qld is unreadable, they are just as likely to vote numbat.

If there is a numbat running in my electorate then they have my vote.

I have a feeling that this election will see a lot of our traditional views of voting trends change considerably.
I'm interested in the vote for the UAP/ One Nation parties
Just on the vax issue...there are a lot of committed anti-vaxxers, but there are a lot who are what we would term reluctant vaxxers who only got vaccinated to keep jobs or the ability to enter certain venues.
These folks resent a lot of the restrictions placed upon them and will take it out on both the federal and parties in control at State level. (Lib and Lab)

I suspect they'll have career best figures.

Add to that the Port Adelaide (Teal) independents they're likely to draw votes away from Labor/ Greens to some extent but their main target and where they hope to win seats will be in LNP seats.

All of this spells trouble for the LNP and I can't see them winning.
I'd also suspect Labor will have trouble achieving a majority government in it's own right.
As I said before...it's probably a good election to lose.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 18, 2022, 06:11:22 pm
If there is a numbat running in my electorate then they have my vote.

I have a feeling that this election will see a lot of our traditional views of voting trends change considerably.
I'm interested in the vote for the UAP/ One Nation parties
Just on the vax issue...there are a lot of committed anti-vaxxers, but there are a lot who are what we would term reluctant vaxxers who only got vaccinated to keep jobs or the ability to enter certain venues.
These folks resent a lot of the restrictions placed upon them and will take it out on both the federal and parties in control at State level. (Lib and Lab)

I suspect they'll have career best figures.

Add to that the Port Adelaide (Teal) independents they're likely to draw votes away from Labor/ Greens to some extent but their main target and where they hope to win seats will be in LNP seats.

All of this spells trouble for the LNP and I can't see them winning.
I'd also suspect Labor will have trouble achieving a majority government in it's own right.
As I said before...it's probably a good election to lose.

If a QLD seat falls to Labor, colour me amazed. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 18, 2022, 07:10:22 pm
If a QLD seat falls to Labor, colour me amazed. 

Brisbane and Ryan are genuine three-way contests between Liberal, Labor and the Greens this time round. Labor seems to have the edge in Brisbane contest and Ryan could go to Labor or the Greens.  Leichhardt could be close and it's possible that Labor could lose Griffith to the Greens.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 18, 2022, 07:55:45 pm
Brisbane and Ryan are genuine three-way contests between Liberal, Labor and the Greens this time round. Labor seems to have the edge in Brisbane contest and Ryan could go to Labor or the Greens.  Leichhardt could be close and it's possible that Labor could lose Griffith to the Greens.

Lilley could just as easily fall to the LNP.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Macca37 on May 18, 2022, 09:35:44 pm
Yes, the voting demographics dont change.

1.  Oldies tend to vote Labor.  Pension and health related generally.  Its why the pandemic response was lock it down hard and fast according to labor.  Protect your rusted on voters, and they will thank you for it.





I believe the opposite is true.  In general the elderly are conservative, rusted on Coalition supporters.  Think of the last election when Labor proposed stopping the franking credits refunds which affected about 3 per cent of the elderly .  Panic set in amongst pensioners not affected in any way but it ensured they turned against Labor.

I recall Gillard, when prime minister,  saying something along the lines " why do anything for them, they won't vote for us."

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 18, 2022, 09:55:28 pm
I believe the opposite is true.  In general the elderly are conservative, rusted on Coalition supporters.  Think of the last election when Labor proposed stopping the franking credits refunds which affected about 3 per cent of the elderly .  Panic set in amongst pensioners not affected in any way but it ensured they turned against Labor.

I recall Gillard, when prime minister,  saying something along the lines " why do anything for them, they won't vote for us."

Tend to agree.
Among friends, my age and older, the majority are LNP voters.
Funny thing is that many have changed from being ALP voters in their younger years.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 18, 2022, 10:22:08 pm
Labor lost some older folk in my family with that franking credits policy.
They have mum and dad shares like CBA, Telstra, that they use that money to pay for their private health insurance, car repairs etc. They are self funded retirees who would have been forced to sell those shares and then gone into a lower income bracket without those dividends and would have qualified for part pensions which would have cost the govt money and forced them back into the public healthcare system.
It should have been means tested properly and a better net cast that let small fish through but caught the likes of Twiggy Forrest but as we know the likes of Twiggy and Gina would have found a way around it. It also upset a lot of fund managers who campaigned against it and superannuation companies who rely on dividends/franking credits as part of their investment returns so a lot of Joe average super balances would be affected down the track.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 18, 2022, 10:56:04 pm
Labor lost some older folk in my family with that franking credits policy.
They have mum and dad shares like CBA, Telstra, that they use that money to pay for their private health insurance, car repairs etc. They are self funded retirees who would have been forced to sell those shares and then gone into a lower income bracket without those dividends and would have qualified for part pensions which would have cost the govt money and forced them back into the public healthcare system.
It should have been means tested properly and a better net cast that let small fish through but caught the likes of Twiggy Forrest but as we know the likes of Twiggy and Gina would have found a way around it. It also upset a lot of fund managers who campaigned against it and superannuation companies who rely on dividends/franking credits as part of their investment returns so a lot of Joe average super balances would be affected down the track.

A shorten / bowen stuff up.  Monumental FU
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 18, 2022, 11:20:37 pm
Guys, I tend not to make too many claims without some fact checks.

Food for thought as to where my thought process came from:

https://nationalseniors.com.au/news/featured-news/power-of-the-seniors-vote


Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 18, 2022, 11:31:24 pm
I believe the opposite is true.  In general the elderly are conservative, rusted on Coalition supporters.  Think of the last election when Labor proposed stopping the franking credits refunds which affected about 3 per cent of the elderly .  Panic set in amongst pensioners not affected in any way but it ensured they turned against Labor.

I recall Gillard, when prime minister,  saying something along the lines " why do anything for them, they won't vote for us."

I wrote an essay about voting patterns almost 50 years ago.  At that time, 80% of people who identified as blue collar voted Labor and 80% of people who identified as white collar voted Liberal.

A hell of a lot has changed since then; blue collar and white collar are largely redundant categories, conspiracy theories are rife, faith/trust in politicians is at an all time low, people are fearful and genuinely angry at the failure to act on climate change, there’s a proliferation of political parties, rich fat blokes pour millions into campaigns intended to make them richer, social media is an electioneering tool, younger folk are more informed and are concerned about their future, older folk are well informed and are concerned about their children’s and grandchildren’s future, we’re in the middle of a pandemic, half the country is flooded - the other half is in drought, Russia has invaded Ukraine, North Korea is firing missiles, the Chinese Communist Party is flexing its muscles, self-funded retirees are ignored by policy makers, young folk can’t afford to buy a house, etc, etc.

Voters are less predictable than they’ve ever been. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 18, 2022, 11:56:56 pm
Lilley could just as easily fall to the LNP.

Unlikely with the LNP changing candidates and their current candidate now under investigation for electoral fraud.

You'd think they would have nailed their candidate for such a marginal seat ...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Macca37 on May 19, 2022, 12:26:17 am
I wrote an essay about voting patterns almost 50 years ago.  At that time, 80% of people who identified as blue collar voted Labor and 80% of people who identified as white collar voted Liberal.

A hell of a lot has changed since then; blue collar and white collar are largely redundant categories, conspiracy theories are rife, faith/trust in politicians is at an all time low, people are fearful and genuinely angry at the failure to act on climate change, there’s a proliferation of political parties, rich fat blokes pour millions into campaigns intended to make them richer, social media is an electioneering tool, younger folk are more informed and are concerned about their future, older folk are well informed and are concerned about their children’s and grandchildren’s future, we’re in the middle of a pandemic, half the country is flooded - the other half is in drought, Russia has invaded Ukraine, North Korea is firing missiles, the Chinese Communist Party is flexing its muscles, self-funded retirees are ignored by policy makers, young folk can’t afford to buy a house, etc, etc.

Voters are less predictable than they’ve ever been. 

The Silent Generation, those people born before 1946, number close to 1.4 million.

Only a small minority were educated to year 11 standard, many leaving between years 8 and 10, with possibly 3 percent going to university.  Their formative years were spent in a society that did not welcome criticism of authority, particularly governments.

Quite a number  have had neither the means nor the motivation to engage meaningfully in today's society and have retreated to the comfort of their conservative values.

This is the group I refer to as rusted on LNP voters.

 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mantis on May 19, 2022, 03:37:17 am
Inflation travelling at 5.1% while many have had wage freeze during the covid period in the last two years will play some small influence on voting opinions. Fuel prices going through the roof. Even with excise reductions of 22 cents per litre. Vaccine mandates to stay employed. Serious lockdowns that have closed many small businesses down. Potentially losing the homes that keep a roof over the heads of the children in a family. Probably not the best last few years to be in government as state or federal leaders. I wouldn’t feel confident if I was the prime minister at the moment or the state leader Dan Andrews come years end. Tough gig they had over the last few years. Unfortunately one thinks he is a dictator that owns the world and does what ever suits his own agenda best. Never ever get my vote there. The other thinks, nothing is his responsibility or his job. No vote from me there either. Not form the same party. Then we look at the other sides. Why are my options limited between “no thanks and get the [email protected]#k away from here”? Independent members don’t offer the most unless you do enough research. Who will they back depending on perks offered to them to swing votes on major issues or policies? Passing bills, and other issues? Is it a wonder that voting in an election is one of the hardest thing people can deal with. Especially because they have limited knowledge of what meets their needs first. Then they have limited knowledge of whom they need to select in any lower or upper house seat. Then trust plays a key factor. Will they deliver or have they sold me a story I wanted to hear. Where do the informal votes go? Why do we use pencils which are erasable when compared to permanent biro pens? You can’t sign formal documents with a pencil. Is it any wonder the majority of people don’t know who to vote for? Does it look like the system of voting is potentially compromised? Can people trust what they hear from potential leaders? The majority votes come from uneducated people. People which have limited knowledge of how the political leaders run budgets and run the states and the country. Maybe this is something they need to address. Politics in the educational system. It is limited. I can say it as a fact. I can only judge by what I see and hear. Bagging the opponent. Not selling policies, but selling stories about how the opposition fails to deliver what the constituents need. Constituents is a funny thing. That is what we are. Constituents is our label. Do your best to vote for what you need tomorrow. Not today. Tomorrow. Today is gone by tomorrow. My early prediction is Scomo is gone. My next prediction is that Andrews is gone in the next state election. Neither has done a great job. Neither will get my vote. Don’t vote based on my opinion. Select your own. Toss of the coin is popular. Not suggesting this is best option. Not at all. Remember that informal or silly votes will go where you least expect them to go. Good luck to us all.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 19, 2022, 06:35:03 am
Inflation travelling at 5.1% while many have had wage freeze during the covid period in the last two years will play some small influence on voting opinions. Fuel prices going through the roof. Even with excise reductions of 22 cents per litre. Vaccine mandates to stay employed. Serious lockdowns that have closed many small businesses down. Potentially losing the homes that keep a roof over the heads of the children in a family. Probably not the best last few years to be in government as state or federal leaders. I wouldn’t feel confident if I was the prime minister at the moment or the state leader Dan Andrews come years end. Tough gig they had over the last few years. Unfortunately one thinks he is a dictator that owns the world and does what ever suits his own agenda best. Never ever get my vote there. The other thinks, nothing is his responsibility or his job. No vote from me there either. Not form the same party. Then we look at the other sides. Why are my options limited between “no thanks and get the [email protected]#k away from here”? Independent members don’t offer the most unless you do enough research. Who will they back depending on perks offered to them to swing votes on major issues or policies? Passing bills, and other issues? Is it a wonder that voting in an election is one of the hardest thing people can deal with. Especially because they have limited knowledge of what meets their needs first. Then they have limited knowledge of whom they need to select in any lower or upper house seat. Then trust plays a key factor. Will they deliver or have they sold me a story I wanted to hear. Where do the informal votes go? Why do we use pencils which are erasable when compared to permanent biro pens? You can’t sign formal documents with a pencil. Is it any wonder the majority of people don’t know who to vote for? Does it look like the system of voting is potentially compromised? Can people trust what they hear from potential leaders? The majority votes come from uneducated people. People which have limited knowledge of how the political leaders run budgets and run the states and the country. Maybe this is something they need to address. Politics in the educational system. It is limited. I can say it as a fact. I can only judge by what I see and hear. Bagging the opponent. Not selling policies, but selling stories about how the opposition fails to deliver what the constituents need. Constituents is a funny thing. That is what we are. Constituents is our label. Do your best to vote for what you need tomorrow. Not today. Tomorrow. Today is gone by tomorrow. My early prediction is Scomo is gone. My next prediction is that Andrews is gone in the next state election. Neither has done a great job. Neither will get my vote. Don’t vote based on my opinion. Select your own. Toss of the coin is popular. Not suggesting this is best option. Not at all. Remember that informal or silly votes will go where you least expect them to go. Good luck to us all.
Great post, great insights.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 19, 2022, 07:36:50 am
Don't join the loonies with the pencil line, Mantis (or just take a pen with you) - got to use pencils because too many voters don't have their pen license yet.  My voting criteria is who is going to help make life better for our community and the worse off?  Vote for different parties in the upper and lower house to try to make parliament work together and pass legislation that is good for the country.

In a most uninspiring campaign, I am still unsure who to vote for.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 19, 2022, 07:43:54 am
Guys, I tend not to make too many claims without some fact checks.

Food for thought as to where my thought process came from:

https://nationalseniors.com.au/news/featured-news/power-of-the-seniors-vote

Thry
Queensland is probably the last state to use as a snapshot of the rest of Australia.

The seniors vote in Queensland during the last state election was driven by two factors.
Firstly the handling of the pandemic.
Despite the rest of Australia seeing her as a heartless bitch, to older Queenslanders Annastacia was the one who kept us pretty safe.
While other parts suffered long lockdowns we went about life 'comparatively' much less affected.

Secondly, the alternative LNP was unable to present themselves as an opposition with any real advantages for older folks. They were pretty ineffective in championing the case for change.

I'm very much in the middle of the spectrum when it comes to voting.
As an older 'Queenslander' (not really I just live here ;D ) I had no hesitation in voting Labor in the State election.
Will I vote the same on Saturday?
Not sure, especially now I hear a Numbat might be running. ;)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 19, 2022, 09:24:53 am
I'll have a guess at the result, Libs to lose 7-8 seats and lose Government.
In the Senate be a bit more of a mess with Labor getting some help from the Greens who may add another senator but still needing the support of the following,
Lambie, Hansen and Nick X.
Reckon Lambie and Hansen might have a mate each in the Senate but NickX will be on his lonesome.
So Albo to win but pushing his ideas through the Senate might need some work with the independents.Tough times ahead with  inflation, interest rates, wars etc and I reckon one term might be all Albo gets ,not a great time to govern imho.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 19, 2022, 09:35:47 am
The Silent Generation, those people born before 1946, number close to 1.4 million.

Only a small minority were educated to year 11 standard, many leaving between years 8 and 10, with possibly 3 percent going to university.  Their formative years were spent in a society that did not welcome criticism of authority, particularly governments.

Quite a number  have had neither the means nor the motivation to engage meaningfully in today's society and have retreated to the comfort of their conservative values.

This is the group I refer to as rusted on LNP voters.

My brothers were born before 1946.  They grew up in a working class household in a working class neighbourhood.  Union membership was a given and Pig Iron Bob was the enemy of the people.

Our electorate has always returned a Labor member, apart from a brief flirtation with Phil Cleary.  Large areas of Melbourne’s north and west are still home to rusted on ALP voters from the 1940s, but the gentrification of suburbs is diluting their electoral importance.

Interestingly, many Teal supporters were rusted on Libs …
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 19, 2022, 09:42:16 am
Thry
Queensland is probably the last state to use as a snapshot of the rest of Australia.

The seniors vote in Queensland during the last state election was driven by two factors.
Firstly the handling of the pandemic.
Despite the rest of Australia seeing her as a heartless bitch, to older Queenslanders Annastacia was the one who kept us pretty safe.
While other parts suffered long lockdowns we went about life 'comparatively' much less affected.

Secondly, the alternative LNP was unable to present themselves as an opposition with any real advantages for older folks. They were pretty ineffective in championing the case for change.

I'm very much in the middle of the spectrum when it comes to voting.
As an older 'Queenslander' (not really I just live here ;D ) I had no hesitation in voting Labor in the State election.
Will I vote the same on Saturday?
Not sure, especially now I hear a Numbat might be running. ;)

Just an example Lods.  its something i have heard over the years a few times.

Older voters tend to go Labor.  This may have even been a historic truth dating back to when superannuation became a thing, and the pension was talked about being abolished.

We have been told for the last couple of years that anecdotal evidence isnt evidence, and I am shocked to discover (not really) that people here are using anecdotal accounts as evidence.

All it really says is what sort of classes we belong to and whom we associate with. 

The loudest voices we hear are the minorities out there.  Most people keep their opinions to themselves, and a landslide Labor victory despite how much I agree with Mantis comments above purely because they took the approach of protection is better than cure first.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 19, 2022, 10:47:31 am
I'll have a guess at the result, Libs to lose 7-8 seats and lose Government.

I'm thinking it'll be knife edge, and even then, with so many postals, a result could well remain unclear for some time. 

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 19, 2022, 11:03:42 am
I'm thinking it'll be knife edge, and even then, with so many postals, a result could well remain unclear for some time. 


I think about a 3-4% swing to labor but then a mess in the Senate...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 19, 2022, 02:40:39 pm
Just an example Lods.  its something i have heard over the years a few times.

Older voters tend to go Labor.  This may have even been a historic truth dating back to when superannuation became a thing, and the pension was talked about being abolished.

We have been told for the last couple of years that anecdotal evidence isnt evidence, and I am shocked to discover (not really) that people here are using anecdotal accounts as evidence.

All it really says is what sort of classes we belong to and whom we associate with. 

The loudest voices we hear are the minorities out there.  Most people keep their opinions to themselves, and a landslide Labor victory despite how much I agree with Mantis comments above purely because they took the approach of protection is better than cure first.

I've always heard the opposite Thry
Older voters are more conservative.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/FlagPost/2019/December/The_2019_Australian_Election_Study

But it's not a one size fits all.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 19, 2022, 03:39:00 pm
I've always heard the opposite Thry
Older voters are more conservative.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/FlagPost/2019/December/The_2019_Australian_Election_Study

But it's not a one size fits all.

I think that older voters are more conservative in that they are less likely to be swinging voters and stick to the party they have always voted for.

A far more significant factor than age is gender with support for the ALP at 55% for female voters and 51% for male voters.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 20, 2022, 06:36:32 pm
Had an email account spammed by Liberal HQ wanting my vote, we postal voted and had to give our email address but I wasnt expecting it to be used by the LP to conduct advertising.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 20, 2022, 07:32:23 pm
Early voted today. Never ceases to amaze how people turn up at polling booths with this look of determination, even annoyance. Then the surly comments to folks handing out how-to-vote forms for someone they don't like!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: cookie2 on May 20, 2022, 08:24:48 pm
Had a phone call last night from Little Johnny.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 20, 2022, 09:10:16 pm
Had a phone call last night from Little Johnny.
Wow, Libs very desperate...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: cookie2 on May 20, 2022, 09:19:30 pm
Wow, Libs very desperate...

That's what I thought.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Macca37 on May 20, 2022, 11:41:49 pm
I'm really on the outer.  All I've had is a text today from the United Australia Party.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 20, 2022, 11:51:55 pm
That despicable knob Clive Palmer’s fake party sent me a text message this arvo.  The sad thing is that gullible folk may believe his garbage.

I will be lodging a complaint with the electoral commission and writing to my local member demanding that politicians are stripped of the right to cold call citizens 😡
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Macca37 on May 21, 2022, 01:35:56 am
There seems to be a concentration of gullible folk in Queensland.  It is predicted that Palmer and One Nation will poll quite well there.
 Depressingly, it is also predicted that Pauline Hanson will retain her senate seat.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 21, 2022, 09:26:04 am
There seems to be a concentration of gullible folk in Queensland.  It is predicted that Palmer and One Nation will poll quite well there.
 Depressingly, it is also predicted that Pauline Hanson will retain her senate seat.
I think Pauline will keep both seats and Lambie will keep hers as well.
Palmer has driven me insane with his ads and I'd expect his vote to increase given he has promised the world and gullible types will be sucked in.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 21, 2022, 09:38:55 am
I think Pauline will keep both seats and Lambie will keep hers as well.
Palmer has driven me insane with his ads and I'd expect his vote to increase given he has promised the world and gullible types will be sucked in.

I'm thinking they'll pick up a lot of that anti vax/'freedom' vote.
That will not only include anti vaxxers but also reluctant vaxxers who feel they were forced by circumstances to be vaccinated.

The major issue of this campaign though is why the AFL have scheduled the Dreamtime at the G to clash with the election result coverage. ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 21, 2022, 10:54:25 am
I loved the Palmer ad which railed against the Chinese having control of an airfield in the Pilbara in WA. SMH ran a story revealing that it was Palmer himself who brokered the deal that secured the iron ore mine for the Chinese company, Sino Iron, and Sino Iron pays Palmer a million dollars a day for services rendered. It also revealed that every WA mine has an airfield so it can bring in FIFO workers. I can hardly see any successful UAP candidates trying to unpick that deal. Was that ad like a back bowl in lawn bowls: by attacking that company, Palmer would blunt any attacks on himself over his business dealings with the Chinese.  
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Professer E on May 21, 2022, 11:27:11 am
What an awful bunch of anonymous,  non descript,  low brow candidates and parties,  tied together by a web of preferences.

And Uncle Harry died of dysentery in a muddy hole to give us the privilidge of voting!?!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 21, 2022, 12:11:49 pm
I want someone to take the liberal democrats to task.

They aren't the liberal national party and its extremely confusing for the average punter.

Who the hell are they anyway?

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 21, 2022, 12:22:48 pm
I want someone to take the liberal democrats to task.

They aren't the liberal national party and its extremely confusing for the average punter.

Who the hell are they anyway?
Agreed, they are not like the Don Chipp Australian Democrats that were a moderate party keeping the bastards honest.

Many of the current Liberal Democrats are more closely aligned with Perrotett and Scomo happy clapper types, but a harder religious focus than Scomo, some are anti-vax, anti-abortion, anti-lockdown, which they describe as pro-choice, etc., etc., it's all God's will and small government and personal choice and personal responsibility are all God's will. To them the elderly falling to COVID due to a freedom to refuse vector is God's will.

Our local Liberal Democrats are not like the US version, ours are more like the Fire Brigade in Fahrenheit 451, masquerading as one thing but working towards something completely different.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 21, 2022, 04:59:43 pm
What an awful bunch of anonymous,  non descript,  low brow candidates and parties,  tied together by a web of preferences.

And Uncle Harry died of dysentery in a muddy hole to give us the privilidge of voting!?!
Unfortunately a lot of the population today wouldnt know where that hole was or what Uncle Harry was doing there.
Unless you have family history passed on down the line there isnt much recognition of why we have the privledges and lifestyles we do.....modern society is too busy asking the big questions like what sex we are and how we can change it and get some time off to do it....
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 21, 2022, 05:09:54 pm
I want someone to take the liberal democrats to task.

They aren't the liberal national party and its extremely confusing for the average punter.

Who the hell are they anyway?


They are no 4 on the Liberals how to vote card
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 21, 2022, 06:52:03 pm
I want someone to take the liberal democrats to task.

They aren't the liberal national party and its extremely confusing for the average punter.

Who the hell are they anyway?

The Liberal Democrats are advocates of small government and people being free to do whatever they like.  David Leyonhjelm was elected to the Senate a while back as an LD candidate.

Calling them lunatic fringe numpties is probably being a little too generous.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 21, 2022, 07:00:25 pm
The Liberal Democrats are advocates of small government and people being free to do whatever they like.  David Leyonhjelm was elected to the Senate a while back as an LD candidate.

Calling them lunatic fringe numpties is probably being a little too generous.
Or, you could vote for these nut jobs
FUSION: Science, Pirate, Secular, Climate Emergency
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 21, 2022, 07:05:16 pm
Or, you could vote for these nut jobs
FUSION: Science, Pirate, Secular, Climate Emergency

I did G2C … before the Liberal Democrats, CPUAP and PHON 🙂

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 21, 2022, 07:17:17 pm
Libs doing better than I thought, Green vote up ...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 21, 2022, 07:32:41 pm
I did G2C … before the Liberal Democrats, CPUAP and PHON 🙂


AAAARRRRRRRRRRR
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 21, 2022, 08:26:57 pm
Libs out, ALP in imho but will they have enough seats to govern on their own or need the teals, greens and indies to form government.
A real mess perhaps in the making...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 21, 2022, 08:55:18 pm
I'm seeing a swing against both major parties, and many greens and numpties on the rise, this will only encourage them, they can only disrupt they cannot govern. It could be hung in the wash up!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 21, 2022, 08:55:50 pm
Best election ever.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 21, 2022, 08:58:08 pm
The big problem for the Liberals will be who will be the leader of the opposition :-\
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 21, 2022, 09:07:37 pm
The Liberals are screwed with the Teal candidates taking their natural constituency.

We live in interesting times with the two party monopoly seemingly consigned to history.  Albo will have some challenges as our next PM.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 21, 2022, 09:11:56 pm
The Liberals are screwed with the Teal candidates taking their natural constituency.

We live in interesting times with the two party monopoly seemingly consigned to history.  Albo will have some challenges as our next PM.

He would be pretty happy that Frydenberg is getting fried in Kooyong. You can't run out of parliament when you're getting grilled
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 21, 2022, 09:14:18 pm
Best election ever.

My first election was the best for me MBB.  Decades of Liberal government came to an end and I was one of many who elected Neville Bonner as the first Aboriginal Senator.

This one is my second best as it may herald a more representative and collegiate government.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 21, 2022, 09:23:57 pm
Labor might just get there to govern in their own right in fact I think they will but in the future the writing is on the wall that the governments in Aus will be like many other countries where it's a minority government ruling with independents and minor parties..
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 21, 2022, 09:59:48 pm
Its just dawned on me that Anthony Albanese will be our PM tomorrow, God help us.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 21, 2022, 10:03:10 pm
Its just dawned on me that Anthony Albanese will be our PM tomorrow, God help us.

She didn’t help Scummo 🙂
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 22, 2022, 08:46:27 am
I wonder how many people are waking up this morning and quoting Eddie Murphy from "Delirious" - "The m____ f____ won!?"

With a Labour Gov admirably led by the Greens, I and all my fellow hunters can now kiss the time old hunting/gathering goodbye. My father will be turning in his grave, sorry Dad. Fisherman? You're next.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 22, 2022, 09:01:37 am
I think we now have to see Labor and the Greens as a coalition like the Libs/Nats given the preference distributions.
Be interesting to see if the Greens or Tealyites want some representation on the front bench if Albo falls short of the 76 seats.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: cookie2 on May 22, 2022, 09:06:11 am
Red, green and teal will make for an interesting palette.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 22, 2022, 09:10:23 am
I want someone to take the liberal democrats to task.

They aren't the liberal national party and its extremely confusing for the average punter.

Who the hell are they anyway?


let me clarify this.  I was very confused to see another party named the liberal party, and for a moment the LNP paperwork was the only one missing from my hands.

Its confusing and they shouldn't be allowed to be called the liberal democrats.

They can stand for what they like, I just would hate to think these guys have caused a few people to be confused, particularly people who might be English challenged.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 22, 2022, 09:18:32 am
Red, green and teal will make for an interesting palette.
Be like living in Uzbekistan....their flag colours are similar.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 22, 2022, 09:21:53 am
So on voting day I was no clearer on whom to vote for.

The leaders as inspiring as dog poo.

The parties, couldn't tell you about anything they've promised.

The people to vote for in my local constituency, I found out their names on election day.

Kate thwaites who won jagajaga got my vote because she cared enough to win to have been out in person handing out leaflets at the train station at 7.30am. 

Thats no reason to vote for someone but it was the only thing any of my locals did that made me take notice of what they were doing.

Good for her that she won, but I've never cared less about an election.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 22, 2022, 09:34:30 am
It doesn't matter what side you favour, I always find politics more 'interesting' when Labor are in government. ;)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 22, 2022, 09:41:14 am
I wonder how many people are waking up this morning and quoting Eddie Murphy from "Delirious" - "The m____ f____ won!?"

With a Labour Gov admirably led by the Greens, I and all my fellow hunters can now kiss the time old hunting/gathering goodbye. My father will be turning in his grave, sorry Dad. Fisherman? You're next.
You can go hunting with the Taliban when Sarah Hansen Young let's them in the country...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 22, 2022, 09:42:12 am
The hard Right ignored women at their peril.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 22, 2022, 11:17:05 am
I think we now have to see Labor and the Greens as a coalition like the Libs/Nats given the preference distributions.



It doesn’t have to be such a hard distinction though, a softer right, coupled with less invisible friend who lives in the sky and a resulting acceptance of science and a generous dose of respect/acceptance of women who don’t want to shut up and stay in the kitchen would change that dynamic.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 22, 2022, 11:26:12 am
You can go hunting with the Taliban when Sarah Hansen Young let's them in the country...
The only thing I'll be hunting is clay targets (if Im lucky).
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 22, 2022, 11:59:57 am
The Coalition only have themselves to blame, Scomo kept on trying to bullcrap his way through the campaign, you would have thought after the public being exposed to so much Trump bullcrap over the last few years they might have woken up to the fact the negative lying is no longer an election positive for anybody except a welded on numpty.

Then Scomo to add insult to injury tries to sell his Captain's pick Deves as the voice of the downtrodden and unheard, except she is the elite of the elite and didn't say a word throughout the whole campaign! She was for the downtrodden and unheard provided they stayed invisible and unheard!

Frydenberg must be devastated, Scomo's basically thrown him under the bus to make sure the next leader is hand picked from the NSW Right, the Coalition as a result will take a further step towards the extreme right, I suppose someone called Frydenberg doesn't fit that bill!

Some irony in the ALP winning Chisholm off the Coalition given the Coalition always accuse the ALP as being in bed with China, and the ALP oust Liu in an electorate overloaded with Chinese immigrants, that's a hell of a tell that your party is on the nose!

In WA the Coalition said it would keep Hasluck, which needed a 7.%% swing to shift, and they lost it to the ALP!

If the ALP can form a government they probably have 2 or 3 consecutive terms now to see out, because it's going to take a massive swing to make the Coalition relevant again!

I feel sorry for many grass roots Liberals, their party has been hijacked by closet fundamentalists and general public and the Teal has seen through it! The ALP is no better, it's infiltrated by secret eco-terrorists, neither party has any remaining purity.

The big winners are the Independents, that is until they expose themselves for what they really are, because there is a huge difference between getting elected while keeping a secret agenda, and making that agenda public to enact it as policy!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 22, 2022, 12:16:48 pm
The Coalition only have themselves to blame, Scomo kept on trying to bullcrap his way through the campaign, you would have thought after the public being exposed to so much Trump bullcrap over the last few years they might have woken up to the fact the negative lying is no longer an election positive for anybody except a welded on numpty.

Then Scomo to add insult to injury tries to sell his Captain's pick Deves as the voice of the downtrodden and unheard, except she is the elite of the elite and didn't say a word throughout the whole campaign! She was for the downtrodden and unheard provided they stayed invisible and unheard!

Frydenberg must be devastated, Scomo's basically thrown him under the bus to make sure the next leader is hand picked from the NSW Right, the Coalition as a result will take a further step towards the extreme right, I suppose someone called Frydenberg doesn't fit that bill!

Some irony in the ALP winning Chisholm off the Coalition given the Coalition always accuse the ALP as being in bed with China, and the ALP oust Liu in an electorate overloaded with Chinese immigrants, that's a hell of a tell that your party is on the nose!

In WA the Coalition said it would keep Hasluck, which needed a 7.%% swing to shift, and they lost it to the ALP!

If the ALP can form a government they probably have 2 or 3 consecutive terms now to see out, because it's going to take a massive swing to make the Coalition relevant again!

I feel sorry for many grass roots Liberals, their party has been hijacked by closet fundamentalists and general public and the Teal has seen through it! The ALP is no better, it's infiltrated by secret eco-terrorists, neither party has any remaining purity.

The big winners are the Independents, that is until they expose themselves for what they really are, because there is a huge difference between getting elected while keeping a secret agenda, and making that agenda public to enact it as policy!
Elections have consequences. Break out the popcorn and coca-cola, this should be fun.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 22, 2022, 12:21:56 pm
Elections have consequences. Break out the popcorn and coca-cola, this should be fun.
The 13 seats remaining should probably see the ALP get the 5 they need, but if they don't we'll be back in the polling booths within weeks, the 2nd time around what do the Coalition do?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: everblue on May 22, 2022, 01:49:27 pm
Its confusing and they shouldn't be allowed to be called the liberal democrats.

The high court agrees!
“Liberal Democrats lose High Court bid to keep party name“
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-09/liberal-democrats-lose-high-court-bid-to-keep-party-name/100894356

There was some type of loophole that allowed them to keep the name for this election.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 22, 2022, 02:28:55 pm
The 13 seats remaining should probably see the ALP get the 5 they need, but if they don't we'll be back in the polling booths within weeks, the 2nd time around what do the Coalition do?
im hoping its a hung vote.  Not that I'd like to vote again, but it would be fitting for neither party to convincingly win this one.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 22, 2022, 03:02:18 pm
It doesn’t have to be such a hard distinction though, a softer right, coupled with less invisible friend who lives in the sky and a resulting acceptance of science and a generous dose of respect/acceptance of women who don’t want to shut up and stay in the kitchen would change that dynamic.
Have always respected women, equality should be a given anyway.
Always happy to go with science and progressive thinking, more concerned we have inexperienced members of Parliament with concentration in one area only ie climate change and no other policies and when you look at the Greens website for example their idea of funding their ideas is just to tax the wealthiest Australians which is high school economics.
Would prefer Labor govern in their own right than have to deal and make bargains with these one policy parties who lack a grasp of the big picture and have these simplistic views.
Save the planet by all means but getting the wealthy to pay more tax when they pay little anyway won't work, been tried as recently as with Biden in the USA and scrapped just as quickly.
My daughter is a RN so I know all about women being abused in the workplace, underpaid and undervalued and I'll be happy to cheer and vote for Albo, Penny and crew if they can fix those problems...but I won't be holding my breath.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 22, 2022, 03:25:12 pm
One arrogant prick gone, one more to go in November.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 22, 2022, 03:30:03 pm
The 'Teal' independents are an interesting group.
In general terms they appear to be highly intelligent, professional women at the top of their game.
Their future outside of politics would be very successful and lucrative.

Do we see these folks as 20-30 year politicians like many of the traditional members of parliament.
I kind of doubt that, but I may be wrong.
Are they there for a short term impact to push their stated agendas, and what happens in a situation where they aren't in a position to have impact on government decisions.
With the aid of the Green independents the Government wont necessarily need their votes, rendering them largely irrelevant to the decision making process.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 22, 2022, 03:39:45 pm
Are the liberal national party really a bunch of right wing fascist Bible promoters who hate women?

Thats the theory according to some on here.

In reality they don't even look moderately right.  They are just further right from Labor (who similarly are centrist).
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 22, 2022, 03:40:20 pm
Would prefer Labor govern in their own right than have to deal and make bargains with these one policy parties who lack a grasp of the big picture and have these simplistic views.
I think this is the real solution to both parties poor performance long term, the concept of a coalition is dead, but it looks entrenched and it's doing none of us good in the short term!

Too many compromises, not enough action, bureaucracy eternally crippled by never ending political discourse.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 22, 2022, 03:45:53 pm
Are the liberal national party really a bunch of right wing fascist Bible promoters who hate women?
I think that is applying an extremist view, you do not have to hate women to believe they best serve the society pregnant and in the kitchen, and you do not have to be a fascist to believe your religion is the only true religion and that the word of your God rules!

Scomo lost many of us with his "God's Will" approach to the natural disasters a couple of years back, his inaction was abhorrent! Perrottet is basically an extension of fundamentalist Christian view points, and while Guy might have sacked one or two for fundamentalist views make no mistake they were sacked for being the ones who spoke out not the ones with the odd one off beliefs!

A lot of Dan Haters carry on about the fascism of the lockdowns, which may have actually saved some lives, but they say little about the people that are still living in tents and caravans from the fires back in 2019/20, a total lack of action under the watch of people like Scomo, Craig Kelly and a host of then Coalition others!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 22, 2022, 03:47:46 pm
A lot of people don't like Dan because he's a corrupt piece of crap.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 22, 2022, 03:49:55 pm
For the sake of moderate Liberal voters, I hope the Liberal Party goes back to the centre and tries to woo the Teal independents to join the Liberal Party. At least that would give the Liberal Party an incentive to reverse the swing to the hard right.

I had the misfortune of tuning into Sky News today and they were clearly running the Fox News line. They had the requisite blonde with long hair in an evening dress hosting with a brash young right-wing guy (classic Fox News) and these 2 geniuses argued that Scomo lost the election because he tried to placate various groups and by doing so he had lost his "authenticity". The blonde girl said she liked him being filmed at Evangelical churches as this was his authentic self. They both agreed that the next Liberal leader has to learn this lesson and not stray away from authenticity (i.e. has to be an uncompromisingly hard right wingnut). They then went on to credit the Scomo government with everything good in the world.

What I take from this is that the assumption the Liberals will move back to the centre is dodgy at best. Dutton isn't likely to try to soften his image and the rightwing echo chamber will lash him if he tries. The same sort of fork in the road occurred in the USA after Obama's 2 wins and the Republican Party released an Autopsy which suggested a move back to the centre for fear of losing non-white voters who will increasingly be a majority of voters. As we know, that never happened as Trump took the GOP to the hard right. And he won against Hillary. If the conservative wing of the Liberal Party sees that as a template, they'll rejoice that the Teals killed off the moderates. The big problem for them, though, is that Trump's playbook works over there because there's no compulsory voting and political control of the voting process allows for Gerrymanders and voter suppression. 

There was some schadenfreude in watching Frydenberg lose his safe seat after he submitted totally to hard right control of his party. But it would probably have been far better for Australia if he'd held his seat and was able to return the Liberal Party its more moderate roots.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 22, 2022, 03:54:11 pm
There was some schadenfreude in watching Frydenberg lose his safe seat after he submitted totally to hard right control of his party. But it would probably have been far better for Australia if he'd held his seat and was able to return the Liberal Party its more moderate roots.
I completely concur, I'm not really one or the other, but what we have today is quite possibly worse than before because of the Teal and other minority factions.

The question for me for the next election is simply this, is Teal the real deal, will the Coalition loss allow more moderates to exit the closet or are they still scared to ruffle the fundamentalist rule?

I believe there is a laziness about this result, a complete lack of fight on the Coalition side to preserve their basic ethos has cost them dearly. They took the low road and thought bashing the ALP was all they needed to do to win, despite years of nearly no demonstrable action on so many major federal issues. I suspect Teal is born of a dissatisfaction with this recent history, too much of the coalition leaving it to fate!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 22, 2022, 05:03:09 pm
So they are fascist bible beaters who believe a women's role is solely in the kitchen?

Just trying to workout if you guys are completely out to lunch or not.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 22, 2022, 05:08:16 pm
So they are fascist bible beaters who believe a women's role is solely in the kitchen?

Just trying to workout if you guys are completely out to lunch or not.
No..but I think they undervalued the female vote and younger voters interest in climate change and that younger vote probably had a good percentage of Liberal Voters who had a priority interest in climate change and swapped parties.
ScoMo underperformed in his response to the treatment/abuse of women in parliament house and seemed surprised at how quickly the teal team organised themselves to help Labor and the Greens wipe out the Liberals.
Dutton is another old style long term Liberal polly and I'm tipping Julie Bishop might be right when she suggested Jane Hume as leadership material, the other prominent female Liberal is Michaelia Cash who is a very good performer in question time and i think one of those two will be a surprise Deputy to Dutton initially in an attempt to show the Liberals are not a male dominated party.
They could do worse than employ Julie Bishop to nurture some of their female talent to rise to the top....Angus Taylor is the other Lib who I think can become leader and was the Minister for Energy with a strong interest in Climate change  and he is my pick to be Duttons sidekick if the Libs cant bring themselves to elect a female deputy.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 22, 2022, 06:24:16 pm
Dutton seems the likely leader but that would be a huge mistake.
It's to the more moderate side the Liberals must move.
There's more votes there than recapturing the One-nation /UAP vote.
The Teal independents are ineffective because they won't be in a position to influence decisions.

The Albanese government will be a left /leaning government.
One itching to implement some significant reforms.
That may leave space for the Libs to move into.

Palmer...needs to stop wasting his money.
Hanson...no longer a factor.
These votes will come back to the conservatives anyway.

For Labor's side.
A big opportunity to make some significant changes...but they face some difficult times, not necessarily in their control.
If they can weather that storm they may be looking at 2 or 3 terms.

Will the move to independents continue?
I actually doubt it.
If Labor are a successful government they'll introduce a lot of the reforms that will remove the independents relevance.
If they're not those independent votes will switch back to the coalition.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 22, 2022, 06:47:40 pm
One arrogant prick gone, one more to go in November.
Cant see that happening given yesterdays voting in Vic.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 22, 2022, 07:24:31 pm
I wonder how many people are waking up this morning and quoting Eddie Murphy from "Delirious" - "The m____ f____ won!?"

With a Labour Gov admirably led by the Greens, I and all my fellow hunters can now kiss the time old hunting/gathering goodbye. My father will be turning in his grave, sorry Dad. Fisherman? You're next.

Hunting and fishing are State and Territory responsibilities G2C … and they are revenue raisers.

I think we’ll be right for a while to come 🙂
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: cookie2 on May 22, 2022, 07:28:28 pm
Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm huntin' wabbits!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 22, 2022, 07:41:02 pm
Dutton seems the likely leader but that would be a huge mistake.
It's to the more moderate side the Liberals must move.

Absolutely. Just what the Libs need, another far Right head-kicker... ::)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Professer E on May 22, 2022, 08:37:51 pm
Late this year is going to be the real show... Andrews has his detractors but how anybody can vote for absolute stooges like Guy and O'Brien is beyond my understanding.  I'm genuinely praying  there's some decent independents running in my electorate.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 22, 2022, 08:45:17 pm
Late this year is going to be the real show... Andrews has his detractors but how anybody can vote for absolute stooges like Guy and O'Brien is beyond my understanding.  I'm genuinely praying  there's some decent independents running in my electorate.
Hard to disagree.....Matthew Guy is the invisible Guy, I'm no fan of Andrews and he a liar but on the back of the National trend and the lack of opposition he is going to romp it in IMHO.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 22, 2022, 09:12:24 pm
I think that the Liberals forgot who they were supposed to be representing and the independents filled that void to some extent - as the voters weren't going to switch to Labor.  The independents seems to be capable people, but time will tell.  This and, in Vic, the dislike of Morrison was a big factor.  There have been a few good (as far as I am aware) Liberals lose their seat - the old do you vote for/against the party or the candidate.  In this case it was against the party to the candidate's downfall.

I flicked between the channels last night - I thought Birmingham was pretty reasonable.  It would also be a shame for the Liberals if Constance didn't get in - he seems like a pretty solid person who wants to better the community (don't know of the Labor member at all)

If the liberals can turn around and show decency to all, stop obfuscating, show that they will make decisions that benefit the country, treat women with respect (including pre-selecting capable women in winnable seats) some of the independent vote will go back.

Interesting that in WA there can't be much of a Liberal party left.  Nothing in State and smashed Federal.

I wonder how much the decrease in vote to LNP and Labor was from people like me - don't number them one, but number so that the least worst gets the preference.

In Vic, Morrison was on the nose.  There is a pretty strong anti Andrews sentiment as well, but I don't think if Guy plays as a small target that will be enough.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 22, 2022, 09:17:53 pm
Hard to disagree.....Matthew Guy is the invisible Guy, I'm no fan of Andrews and he a liar but on the back of the National trend and the lack of opposition he is going to romp it in IMHO.
The Libs should concede now
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 22, 2022, 10:35:00 pm
Guy and Dutton are just place holders for the next leader, until the Libs grow some cohunes to stand up to the right they be consigned to oblivion.

The Libs seem obsessed with the Republican way forward, but it's not going to work here, I think they have spent far far too much time listening to the noisy minorities and not finding out what the bulk of the general public wants!

The politicians on both sides appear to jump for the idiot screaming at the end of the street, and basically ignore all the concerned neighbours! For example, last night the Libs complained about Victoria, why wasn't there more outrage about Andrews and anti-ALP backlash, etc., etc., well simply because it is the noisy self-affirming idiots that make all the racket and they are clearly in the minority! Most people, and that is the vast majority, are just happy to play their role and do whatever they can to keep those around them safe and healthy and would do it again! If you don't believe that to be true then also explain WA, which was basically succeeded from Australia for most of the pandemic, yet still had the massive swing to the ALP?

If that isn't a clear enough signal to anyone considering their position, I don't know what is and I suspect they spend a bit too much time sitting around together self-pollinating!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 22, 2022, 10:49:45 pm
The sound bites I heard from Albo though cliches were reassuring, talking about inclusion and governing for all etc… I for one are totally over the trumpian politics of division and demonisation.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Macca37 on May 22, 2022, 11:50:41 pm
If Dutton becomes leader and moves the Coalition even further to the Right,  he will guarantee the re-election of Independents because small L Liberals  will be disenfranchised, disheartened, and most likely vote again for candidates not burdened by party politics.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mantis on May 23, 2022, 12:27:05 am
This Federal election should be a wake up call for all politicians. Remembering how to act on behalf of the people who vote you into power. What is your selling point? What makes you unique and in touch with the people? What do you stand for? What are your careful choice of words? Do you try to defeat an opponent by selling their shortcomings, or do you sell what you have to offer? How will the media help beat me up on my choice of words and potential lack of actions on issues in the past? This doesn’t appear to be an election that Albo won, but more an election that Scomo and his government lost. Just an observation.

It appears that when the media has highlighted enough questions on a leaders integrity and a lack of actions in the last few years, a leader will struggle to hold a campaign that will keep them in power. A case of many people looking for change. Hence independent seats picking up seats a majority government needs to hold power. Is this good for our country? Time will tell. It is a trend. If the new government takes some reasonable actions to change how they run the country in the next few months, and it meets the needs of the majority of the population, it could influence how the people vote in the Victorian state election this year in November. It isn’t a certainty that people will look at the party being Labor or Liberal. It may be another opportunity for change once again. Not an expert here and just stating a recent observation that could continue to be a trend once again in the state election.

Morrison Government media bashing’s. “Not my job”. “Not my responsibility “. “I don’t hold a hose”.

Probably based on issues over time due to floods, fires, and Covid restrictions that have had an effect on the people of Australia in the last few years. The women in politics issue was one that didn’t go down well either. Points that were on banners in my zone in the South Eastern area. Banged on by all party followers which were not Liberal. Labor supporters were selling a time for a change and a better understanding of the people of Australia. Bringing the government strategy and policies back to what helps create a better future. Help create a better quality of lifestyle for all including a better strategy to control spending and developing better budgets.

The Liberal government strategy in the media and all the brochures we received just highlighted why it won’t be easy under Albanese. Plus a bragging effect about how the unemployment rate is under 4%, and an all time low for many years. So they sold what they have done. Which is a fair statement. Not sure how accurate these figures are. Are these registered unemployed people at Centrelink? Are they people on benefits due to circumstances? Either way it is two points. Unemployment rates, and why Albo is no good for the country.

In a period of Covid that has been hard to run budgets, spending and developing ways to reduce a deficit, it must have been the worst few years for all politicians. The key members in power. The State and Federal leaders. The media has given them a beating every moment they can to sell a story. The other party members looking for seats have done the same. Especially based on their words which are sour at times, and delivering less than they can promise. You can attempt to kiss all the babies of the country. You can try to shake all the hands of the firefighters that have risked their lives for little self reward. Being rejected and told to basically [email protected]#k off. All in the media for some time now.

How did the government think this would go down? Selling few new points. Bagging the opposition leader as a selling point. Ignoring how many females are competing for seats as independents. Did anyone wake to say, hang on we are going to have problems winning this election. What is it we have to offer? Why did Scomo in an interview state he might need to change how he governs this country? People buy words based on what they think might be trust. Bagging others doesn’t sell yourself. It sells something about your character. All other candidate seats selling you as a failure doesn’t help you. The media highlighting your issues doesn’t help. Your poor choice of words doesn’t help.

The big sell on the anti-corruption issues of past has helped the Labor party. The move to make better steps forward for a green environment and policies has helped. Making changes to how they will govern the country has helped. As an observation it appears that many people wanted a change. Many people were not happy with what they have seen in the last few years. It may have had a big impact on the end result.

This trend of change could follow in the next state election. People might decide they need something fresh and new. Independents will pick off some of the close seats the Andrews government has at the moment. Some others will swing to a potential new government. Remember some key points that will be a highlight of the media later in the year. “I don’t recall”. “I don’t remember “. “It wasn’t my job at the time”. “I don’t look after that issue”. The whole hotel quarantine issue that put the state into an everlasting lockdown that was created by a lack of diligence of the government and Andrews never was held accountable. How is this going to go down? Will the media beat up this as a poor selling point? It starts to look as though it doesn’t matter what you do as the right thing. It looks as though you are judged on what can be sold as the wrong thing, or lack of actions.

If people look for change, it can only go one way. Andrews losing seats he needs to hold. Some going to independents. Along with a small few going the way of an opponent selling new changes, and doing things different to govern the state. Selling new solutions rather than bagging poor previous policies and government activities. Add to that, buying into anti-corruption and making people accountable. Even if it never really exist. How will this swing more than enough votes to make things interesting. I am not saying who will or should win. I am just saying your words are what people hear. Your arrogance could go against you. The media will always have a strong influence. Last but not least. If enough people want a change, you have lost your battle. No matter what the circumstances are.

I don’t project what the state election result will be by political experience. Nor due to my level of intelligence. I am just stating an observation. What I have just experienced. What I have read during this Federal campaign. What I have seen in the media. The brochures I have had my letter box pounded with. None of this influenced my vote. It did make me think that something is going to change. Maybe that thought process may have made many people chose what they did in this recent election. If so, we may see a new government at state level in November. Just saying what I have experienced as a dumb [email protected]#k, working class nothing in the south eastern suburbs. Probably a nothing vote, but at the same time a vote that has a small influence on who will run the state. Do not hold any of my experience in what I have seen here as anything more than an observation. Do not let me ever influence anything that you may think. It just food for thought. Has any other person here noticed that people get so influenced by media stories? Has anyone ever found being critical of the opposition as being a negative? Has anyone noticed that selling new policies being a point of difference? Selling a change of ways as a positive? I wouldn’t mind throwing my hat in the ring. Problem number 1 is that I have no idea how to work with liars. Problem 2 is that I don’t understand the politics within politics. Problem 3 is that there is not enough tax payers money to save the country. Problem 4 is that I could probably never bring enough benefits that could benefit all the people without destroying the economy.

Just on a quiet note, can I make a small prediction on the next Victorian state election? Don’t hold me to anything. Just a potential prediction. Based on change. The guy might win. Just an observation based on the last four or five years of experience I have lived through and what I hear people saying. Just a thought. Don’t ever take me seriously. Just enjoy the reading. Hopefully for that matter.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 23, 2022, 08:04:09 am
@ Mantis reply 247
That is a bloody ball tearer of a post, I thank you for that as I found it very educational.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 23, 2022, 08:15:22 am
The Liberal government strategy in the media and all the brochures we received just highlighted why it won’t be easy under Albanese. Plus a bragging effect about how the unemployment rate is under 4%, and an all time low for many years. So they sold what they have done. Which is a fair statement. Not sure how accurate these figures are. Are these registered unemployed people at Centrelink? Are they people on benefits due to circumstances? Either way it is two points. Unemployment rates, and why Albo is no good for the country.
On this, I read somewhere recently not sure if it is correct or not, that politically you are considered employed if you work 1hr or more per week!

That's not being employed, that is 95% unemployed welfare, who the feck decides that sort of threshold for reporting?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: tonyo on May 23, 2022, 09:52:04 am
On this, I read somewhere recently not sure if it is correct or not, that politically you are considered employed if you work 1hr or more per week!

That's not being employed, that is 95% unemployed welfare, who the feck decides that sort of threshold for reporting?

It's called making the numbers sound better.  There is a more important statistic - not the 'Unemployed' but the 'Underemployed'

Finally, given that every second cafe, restaurant and shop has signs in their windows pleading for workers, why is there even 4% without a job....?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 23, 2022, 10:10:10 am
On this, I read somewhere recently not sure if it is correct or not, that politically you are considered employed if you work 1hr or more per week!

That's not being employed, that is 95% unemployed welfare, who the feck decides that sort of threshold for reporting?
The one hour considered employed has been that way for a long time (not suggesting it's right).  Without international students, fruit pickers etc coming to Australia, it is not a great surprise that unemployment is so low.  It would be interesting to know the number of people employed against the population of Australia (as opposed to the participation rate).  It is an absolute nightmare trying to get staff in all sorts of industries at the moment.  It is an employee's market.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 23, 2022, 10:10:17 am
Finally, given that every second cafe, restaurant and shop has signs in their windows pleading for workers, why is there even 4% without a job....?

Free money ...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 23, 2022, 10:19:22 am
There is a figure that suggests full employment, which includes those that are between jobs, and not necessarily considered a good thing - because the businesses can't get staff to help them operate, let alone grow.  When I was at Uni, I think it was 4-5%.

Good examples are complex, but take some small country towns.  City folk like the area, so they buy another property in the town.  The house either stays as a holiday home or short stay accommodation.  It removes a permanent population from the town.  If this happens a lot, the number of people that are able to be employed by the town decreases.  As a result, when the owners/short stay people go to the town, they complain because the shops aren't open at their convenient hours, because they are small businesses with not enough staff.  So the shops that remain open become really busy, which isn't an enjoyable experience for the owner, staff or customers.  Next time, the owners/short stays bring their own food and drinks, so they don't spend in the town, reducing $$ available in that town.  Shops continue to close.  As a result, there aren't jobs in the town, so permanent residents move out to find work.  It isn't a great cycle.  There is full employment in the town, but not nearly enough available workers.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 23, 2022, 10:29:38 am
Good examples are complex, but take some small country towns.  City folk like the area, so they buy another property in the town.  The house either stays as a holiday home or short stay accommodation.  It removes a permanent population from the town.
This reminds me, I'd heard about a scheme OS that taxed vacant properties at a higher rate as a way to overcome the housing shortage. It's happening OS already, here we have gone part way by requiring major hotels and other venues to provided unused rooms as emergency accommodation, similar to the US. But I wonder how things would go in the housing market if "property collectors" were encouraged / forced to put residents in place to save tax dollars. I'm sure there would be an outcry, but even so I'm not sure it's a bad thing.

To me it's analogous the fringe benefits tax of company vehicles, some people have a garages full of registered cars that hardly ever hit the road. Maybe the rego fees are back to front, and if you can afford to keep a garage full of unused vehicles you should pay a higher rate rather than get a discount for reduced use!

Think along the same lines for properties, particularly all these foreign owned vacant houses that seem to proliferate in certain suburbs. I never realised this was a problem until a mate got in on the gig of maintaining them, he tells me in some suburbs there are literally whole streets that are door to door immaculately maintained vacant properties. They have to go in, garden, clean gutters, clean houses, open windows, dust, vacuum and run the services like gas or water to fill traps, flush toilets, etc., etc., then send photographic reports to some agent or foreign buyer. Basically he said he making a killing flushing toilets in empty properties!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 23, 2022, 02:02:17 pm
Will the Liberals lurch to the left or the right? It'll be an interesting watch. But it's pretty obvious which way Sky News / Murdoch wants them to go:

In shock and anger over Liberal defeat, Sky News commentators urge party to shift right, The Guardian. (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/23/in-shock-and-anger-over-liberal-defeat-sky-news-commentators-urge-party-to-shift-right)

Quote from: Andrew Bolt
“Scott Morrison’s pathetic Liberals got smashed by telling the world they were the Guilty Party,” Bolt wrote. “Guilty on the ‘climate emergency’. Guilty of being mean to women. Guilty on ‘reconciliation’.

“Who’d vote for such a mewling pack of self-haters with so little self-respect that they won’t even sack a party traitor like Malcolm Turnbull? Thank God this election wipe-out has taken out many of their worst grovellers.

“Please, Peter Dutton, take over, and make the Liberals stop apologising for not being more like Labor. Let the Liberals be Liberals again. But still I see some of the more clueless Liberal survivors crawl from the wreckage and whimper that they’ve got to swing even more to the Left.”

The other interesting thing will be how the Anti-Dan campaign will fare in November. Clearly, the Federal Liberals miscued by taking potshots at the Andrews Govt over the pandemic response:

Quote
“The Liberal party thought that they were having a potshot at the Labor party, but … they were having a go at Victorians,” Tam, a voter in Higgins, told Guardian Australia.

“I took it personally. It has definitely swayed my vote.”

Voters we spoke to in the three electorates were outraged by the constant negative comparisons between Victoria and NSW, the lack of financial support after jobkeeper wrapped up but lockdowns dragged on, and most notably, the sluggish vaccination rollout.

This was on top of several other issues such as climate change, integrity, the treatment of women in parliament and other workplaces, and growing inequality.

But Liberal strategists were confident there was another story playing out in the outer suburbs of Melbourne.

They believed there was an “anti-Dan” sentiment and attempted to capitalise on it, issuing how-to-vote cards urging voters to “send Daniel Andrews a message”. An ad campaign, targeting voters in Corangamite and McEwen, attempted to paint Albanese as Andrews’s puppet.

The result? The seats of Corangamite and Dunkley are marginal no more, with a 7.7% and 4.2% swing to Labor MPs Libby Coker and Peta Murphy respectively at the time of writing.

In McEwen, there was a small swing towards the Liberal party but Labor’s Rob Mitchell retained the seat comfortably. Strategists were predicting Clive Palmer’s United Australia Party and One Nation could secure up to 20% of the vote, but instead it was the Greens that came in third, with more than 14% of first preference votes – a 4.6% swing in a seat the party put little resources into.

In nearby Hawke, a new seat, there was a 2.8% swing to the Liberal party but Labor’s Sam Rae will retain it with more than 57% of the two-party preferred vote. Again, it was the Greens, not UAP or One Nation, that came in third.

In Melbourne’s east, the state’s most marginal electorate was easily won off Liberal MP Gladys Liu by Labor’s Carina Garland, while in neighbouring Deakin, Michael Sukkar remains in danger of losing his seat.

In the previously safe Liberal seat of Aston, embattled cabinet minister Alan Tudge suffered a 7.4% swing against him, and in Menzies, another heartland electorate named after the party’s founder, candidate Keith Wolahan had a narrow lead on his Labor opponent.

Asked to explain the party’s drubbing in a state once described as the jewel in the Liberal crown, Senator Jane Hume conceded: “We thought there would be a bigger Dan Andrews effect in Victoria and there hasn’t [been], which I find disappointing.”
“We have had such negative feedback about those harsh lockdowns in Victoria, and we thought that may play out in those outer suburban areas. Clearly, they haven’t,” she told Nine.

Former Labor campaign strategist turned pollster Kos Samaras said the research his firm RedBridge conducted ahead of the election found “no evidence” to suggest a dislike of Andrews would translate to votes for the Liberals.

“The Libs drove their buses out to safe Labor seats hunting for votes and left their homes burning. They’ve been absolutely decimated,” he says.

“It’s a complete repeat of the 2018 state election.”

‘They were having a go at Victorians’: how the Liberals miscalculated the ‘anti-Dan’ election strategy, The Guardian. (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/23/they-were-having-a-go-at-victorians-how-the-liberals-miscalculated-the-anti-dan-election-strategy)

The article notes Victorian State Liberals are still convinced there's an anti-Dan factor out there, but if they're wrong then they'll waste a lot of their efforts.

If we look at the results in Victoria and WA, states in which Labor Premiers implemented harsh restrictions with a view to keeping Covid at bay, Labor was rewarded. Maybe that means that the overwhelming majority of voters respect governments which make hard decisions: the opposite of do-nothing governments. Listening to an obnoxiously loud minority which prefers that Govts do nothing is like listening to the Siren song and crashing one's ship into the rocks.

The Victorian opposition would do better to forget about running a review of pandemic management. It's not as though they have to harp on about it anyway as those who were outraged by it will remain so and presumably they'll vote against Dan. Instead, they should focus on issues such as Ambulance response time and the like. But Labor has a pretty decent argument there. The ALP can argue that Morrison's Liberal Govt had starved Victoria of resources in the hope it could foment an uprising against the ALP. Albo doesn't need to replicate Morrison's obvious shift of resources to his own party's States: all he has to do is get rid of Morrison's rorting and Victoria will benefit greatly from increases in funding. Maybe Victorian voters won't be quite as optimistic that balance will be restored if it elects right-wing wingnuts led by Guy, conditioned as they are by Morrison to expect political reprisals.  
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 23, 2022, 06:58:59 pm
When do we all get our 5% pay increase?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 23, 2022, 07:14:33 pm
That's the funny thing: the government of the day doesn't set minimum wage rises. Just as the Governor of the Reserve Bank determines interest rises independently of the Government, the Fair Work Commission determines what rise, if any, there should be in the minimum wage. The Federal Govt presumably makes its views known but others express their views as well. And the determination of the Fair Work Commission doesn't bind employers who are paying over the minimum wage although there's an expectation there'll be a flow on.

When I heard Albo's comments and Morrison teeing off on them, I initially feared it was a gaffe but then I felt it would rebound on Morrison because essentially he was saying it should be up to workers to fight inflation by accepting a real wage cut. It was pretty clear Morrison realised he'd fallen into a trap as he quickly tried to backtrack on his attack, saying he supported a rise in wages.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 23, 2022, 08:07:39 pm
When do we all get our 5% pay increase?
Lets go MBB, Ill make the placards
"Whata we want? 5%. When do wannit? Now!!!!"
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 23, 2022, 08:21:12 pm
When do we all get our 5% pay increase?

It’s up to the Fair Work Commission and then only for folk on the minimum wage.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 23, 2022, 08:26:28 pm
George Megalogenis made an interesting observation on Sunday morning; our parliament now looks more like Australia.

There’s still a way to go but I think that’s a good sign for our nation’s future.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 23, 2022, 08:29:14 pm
It’s up to the Fair Work Commission and then only for folk on the minimum wage.

I thought I heard Albo say no one should go backwards.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 23, 2022, 08:44:51 pm
I thought I heard Albo say no one should go backwards.

He probably did but the Fair Work Commission only determines the minimum wage.  Wages growth for other workers will depend on economic policy and productivity, as well as enterprise bargaining.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 23, 2022, 08:47:54 pm
I know he said wage growth at the bottom, but there are two ways to achieve that.

1.  Lift the minimum wage (this is an election promise and will impact none of us that earn a decent wicket, even as hyperinflation sets in).

2.  Make the cost of living cheaper.  This is not going to happen.

Which means the exact people who are going to wear the burden are those of us, who are not truly well off, but earn a pretty good crust.

The end of the middle class is upon us and we arrived here through no fault of any of our recent governments or policies.  We are going to have the recession that we have been able to stave off for the last 20 years, and I expect it to be quite horrific in the next couple of years.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 23, 2022, 09:05:24 pm
Around 40% of folk, 20% directly and 20 indirectly are affected by the Fair Work commissions once a year ruling.
For those who have worked in Private enterprise they would know that contracts are reset around July 1st each year as rule of thumb.
My tip is Parliament will be recalled early to table a lot of Labors new promised legislation, given the amount of newbie cross benchers it may take them a bit of time to wade through the detail given they won't have the resources like the major parties and an early start will help offset those delays.
Labor should have the numbers in the house of reps and also with the Greens help and Jacqui Lambie be able to push most of their stuff through.
Our old friend Pauline looks she might hang onto her Senate seat..just.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 23, 2022, 09:09:12 pm
I know he said wage growth at the bottom, but there are two ways to achieve that.

1.  Lift the minimum wage (this is an election promise and will impact none of us that earn a decent wicket, even as hyperinflation sets in).

2.  Make the cost of living cheaper.  This is not going to happen.

Which means the exact people who are going to wear the burden are those of us, who are not truly well off, but earn a pretty good crust.

The end of the middle class is upon us and we arrived here through no fault of any of our recent governments or policies.  We are going to have the recession that we have been able to stave off for the last 20 years, and I expect it to be quite horrific in the next couple of years.

Albanese said the morning that there will be no cuts to the public service.  Wonder why?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 23, 2022, 09:14:48 pm
I know he said wage growth at the bottom, but there are two ways to achieve that.

1.  Lift the minimum wage (this is an election promise and will impact none of us that earn a decent wicket, even as hyperinflation sets in).

2.  Make the cost of living cheaper.  This is not going to happen.

Which means the exact people who are going to wear the burden are those of us, who are not truly well off, but earn a pretty good crust.

The end of the middle class is upon us and we arrived here through no fault of any of our recent governments or policies.  We are going to have the recession that we have been able to stave off for the last 20 years, and I expect it to be quite horrific in the next couple of years.


Wages growth means higher inflation which means higher interest rates, that is the reality. Inflation is 8.5% in the USA which will flow on down here, we won't be as bad but any wages growth will be gobbled up.
Banks have to play ball as well which is doubtful imho, some are offering 2.9 % on term deposits already so mortgage rates are going up. Going to be a lot of defaults and houses for sale by years end...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 23, 2022, 09:48:32 pm
Wages growth means higher inflation which means higher interest rates, that is the reality. Inflation is 8.5% in the USA which will flow on down here, we won't be as bad but any wages growth will be gobbled up.
Banks have to play ball as well which is doubtful imho, some are offering 2.9 % on term deposits already so mortgage rates are going up. Going to be a lot of defaults and houses for sale by years end...

Not according to a raft of economists speaking in the lead up to the election EB.

Wages growth linked to productivity isn’t inflationary.  The challenge for the new government will be to develop the framework for that to happen.  The first step would be to seek advice from beyond Treasury … but I’m not sure they’re that courageous/innovative. 🤔


Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 23, 2022, 11:07:15 pm
Not according to a raft of economists speaking in the lead up to the election EB.

Wages growth linked to productivity isn’t inflationary.  The challenge for the new government will be to develop the framework for that to happen.  The first step would be to seek advice from beyond Treasury … but I’m not sure they’re that courageous/innovative. 🤔



DJ,  I'll go with the man who sets the cash rate and thats Philip Lowe,inflation tipped at 6% by years end and he expects wages growth to lag prices for a while yet, his expectation is around 3% wages growth.
Albo has promised 5% wages increases , he will need a magical framework to make that happen in the next 12 months Imho, gentleman Jim Chalmers also will need to help him by keeping the fuel excise cut and from what I read he didnt want to commit to that...Albo might get some help if the Russia/Ukraine conflict is resolved and China can get out of lockdown and Penny Wong can smooth the waters but with less stimulus in the market I dont see consumption increasing with interest rates going up and GDP being affected. A lot of moving parts to sync up for decent wages growth IMO and if Albo/Chalmers pull it off then they might have the job for a while....
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 23, 2022, 11:28:13 pm
DJ,  I'll go with the man who sets the cash rate and thats Philip Lowe,inflation tipped at 6% by years end and he expects wages growth to lag prices for a while yet, his expectation is around 3% wages growth.
Albo has promised 5% wages increases , he will need a magical framework to make that happen in the next 12 months Imho, gentleman Jim Chalmers also will need to help him by keeping the fuel excise cut and from what I read he didnt want to commit to that...Albo might get some help if the Russia/Ukraine conflict is resolved and China can get out of lockdown and Penny Wong can smooth the waters but with less stimulus in the market I dont see consumption increasing with interest rates going up and GDP being affected. A lot of moving parts to sync up for decent wages growth IMO and if Albo/Chalmers pull it off then they might have the job for a while....

Albo's commitment is that Labor would support a 5.1% pay rise for the 2% of Australians earning the minimum wage of $20.33 an hour if the Fair Work Commission determined that such a pay rise was appropriate.

There's a good discussion of why/how pay rises aren't inflationary here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-13/minimum-wage-prices-inflation-spiral-interest-rates/101060028

Basically, there's a lot of fat in the system that could be redistributed.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 24, 2022, 07:03:19 am
Not according to a raft of economists speaking in the lead up to the election EB.

Wages growth linked to productivity isn’t inflationary.  The challenge for the new government will be to develop the framework for that to happen.  The first step would be to seek advice from beyond Treasury … but I’m not sure they’re that courageous/innovative. 🤔
It is interesting, you'll find those wealthy enough or earning enough to save or invest will advocate that wages growth is inflationary, that is because they speak from a perspective of accumulating cash.

Many academics will tell you wage growth for low earners isn't inflationary when the bulk of the people getting the rise are living hand to mouth, that is circular cash and it cannot possible contribute to inflation, because it goes straight back to those who give it out. It's just a shift in the location and timing of the funds.

Ironically, if you want people to be self-funded retirees you need some level of interest rates higher than the current rates, so that investments and superannuation see growth. The RBA is charged with managing that, but I have to wonder if they genuinely think a wage rise to the bottom 2% is inflationary if they are fit for purpose, because that seems more political than economically rational.

So for me opposing a wage rise for low earners seems counter-productive, and hypocritical, a bit like accusing them of stealing the icing off the cake when in fact they are only being thrown a few crumbs.

PS; It's interesting how quickly Albanese has hit the ground running, it looks like if nothing else he won't be lacking in effort!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 24, 2022, 07:39:31 am
Well, you can forget any cuts to fuel excise.  marles said no this morning
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: shawny on May 24, 2022, 08:57:19 am
PS; It's interesting how quickly Albanese has hit the ground running, it looks like if nothing else he won't be lacking in effort!

He certainly did that! 

Its reported his first change inside parliament was adding in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags behind podium next to Australian flag.

We all knew these sorts of changes are expected with this party but to do it first up is an insight into this PM and what lies ahead. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 24, 2022, 09:06:41 am
Well, you can forget any cuts to fuel excise.  marles said no this morning
Yep, high fuel prices are here for a while , min wage earners who drive a car won't get much left from that 5% wage rise if it goes through...of course that effects diesel too so transport costs will be affected and that means more pain at the supermarket...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 24, 2022, 09:18:38 am
He certainly did that! 

Its reported his first change inside parliament was adding in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags behind podium next to Australian flag.

We all knew these sorts of changes are expected with this party but to do it first up is an insight into this PM and what lies ahead. 

To me this stuff is all optics based quick wins.

Putting two flags up is about as difficult as brushing your teeth in the morning.

The semblance of doing something whilst not really doing anything, and you can get the work experience kid to do it.

It was the responsibility of the students to run the flag up the flagpole when in high school. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 24, 2022, 09:22:55 am
To me this stuff is all optics based quick wins.

Putting two flags up is about as difficult as brushing your teeth in the morning.

The semblance of doing something whilst not really doing anything, and you can get the work experience kid to do it.

It was the responsibility of the students to run the flag up the flagpole when in high school.
You would have thought if it means and costs little or next to nothing while taking no effort at all Scotty from Marketing would have been onto it faster then a seagull on a chip, this concept of easy lip service was basically Scomo's ethos. Yet he wasn't and he didn't!

So in that regard I think it's pretty easy, almost too easy, to dismiss these little things as trivial!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 24, 2022, 09:24:54 am
Whinging in the US that 'gas' is averaging US4.59 per gallon (about US1.15 a litre)!  12 months ago it was US3.10 a gallon (77cents/litre)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 24, 2022, 09:26:32 am
To me this stuff is all optics based quick wins.

Putting two flags up is about as difficult as brushing your teeth in the morning.

The semblance of doing something whilst not really doing anything, and you can get the work experience kid to do it.

It was the responsibility of the students to run the flag up the flagpole when in high school. 
Bit of window dressing...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 24, 2022, 09:26:49 am
Whinging in the US that 'gas' is averaging US4.59 per gallon (about US1.15 a litre)!  12 months ago it was US3.10 a gallon (77cents/litre)
If you think that is bad, wait and see what happens to the price of batteries and other eVehicle components when the price of fuel skyrockets, the experts seem to think the price of fuel is not even bad yet! :o

A lot of critical materials and elements are basically by-products of the petrochemical industry at the moment, when they no longer have to dig holes to get what they need, all the cost of those operations will fall on the ancillary products! ;)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 24, 2022, 11:25:13 am
You would have thought if it means and costs little or next to nothing while taking no effort at all Scotty from Marketing would have been onto it faster then a seagull on a chip, this concept of easy lip service was basically Scomo's ethos. Yet he wasn't and he didn't!

So in that regard I think it's pretty easy, almost too easy, to dismiss these little things as trivial!

Sorry mate, you have to understand something.

Whether those flags existed next to the podium or not makes no difference.

Sure, semiotic and symbolic change, but to laud the incumbent for executing a change, when there are Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island flags on every government building around the country is absolutely not making any real difference aside from optics.

Let me tell you what this actually becomes about.  One upmanship.  The next leader from any party, can then wear a flag on the label of their clothing when in public.

Its like when they support the minority groups national days.  Its all vote winning optics and celebrating what our great country is about...  :D
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 24, 2022, 12:16:06 pm
No problem with flags.
Have as many as you like.
For avid vexillologists such as myself, the only issue is that they're displayed correctly...and they were.
It was immediately noticeable though...and that did represent a point of difference.

Albo's hit the ground running and we're off on a bit of a ride.
His major problem may be curtailing some of the enthusiasm of his colleagues in making some significant changes in a short time period.
One of the things that's always struck me is that a new Labor Government always represents a time of change, where a conservative government tends to adopt a more steady as you go (boring) approach.
Labor Governments are always a more enjoyable and interesting show.

The big issue for the Liberal party is a decision to shift to the right or left.
They're kind of in limbo at the moment.
Do they go after the drifting UAP/One Nation vote or do they look to cut into the strong Independent vote.
Some may think that moving either way is a seismic shift, but the facts of the matter are that it will be largely determined by only a handful of Liberal MP's
The make-up of the new  Parliament is essentially settled.
We're yet to see where those remaining Lib's thinking lands...right or left (centre-right)?

It looks like the initial opposition leader will be Dutton.
While in the long term that probably represents a move right  (and probably a bad long-term move for that party) he remains the strongest of the candidates.
 He's a head kicker who in the short term will challenge the Albanese government.

Whether he's the leader at the next election will largely depend on his electability as seen by his colleagues.
That's when we may see a shift to a more moderate leader
That's how quickly this party can change.
We saw that in the shift from Abbott to Turnbull to Morrison.
But it's troubling and turbulent times ahead for the conservatives.

We often tend to look at these situations after elections and see a party in turmoil.
It seems that sections of their base has largely deserted them, and the prospect of a quick return to government is very unlikely.
We won't know the significance of this loss for a year or two.
It may be years in the wilderness.
A poor performing Albanese government economically may see them back in the race.

One of the interesting aspects I'm picking up from a lot of the Liberals (and Liberal supporters) after this election is that they'd rather see Labor with a clear majority than a hung parliament.
There's probably some degree of anger at the damage the independents have inflicted, but it's also a preference that the contests remain a two-party contest...and the rise of the independents is snuffed out.
I'm wondering whether Labor folk would see it the same in a similar position.
You probably won't hear it expressed as it's worked  in their favour at this election.
This election clearly showed from the failure of both parties, in terms of their primary vote, that folks didn't really find either side inspiring.



Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 24, 2022, 12:42:01 pm
............. but to laud the incumbent for executing a change, when there are Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island flags on every government building around the country is absolutely not making any real difference aside from optics.
So a minute after a flag appears you're seem to be bagging them for not making a real difference! :o

In any case, I'm not sure anybody is lauding anyone at this stage, but that is yet another contrast that exists whether it's superficial or not!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 24, 2022, 02:48:25 pm
While they're implementing "insubstantial changes", they should move Australia Day to a day that everyone can celebrate. As Thryleon says, it's not as though that change really matters, so there should be no objections.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 24, 2022, 03:31:29 pm
So.....the 'new guy' is no good because some flags made their way into view behind the podium.

Nobody is against those flags.
Nobody is complaining about the time, cost and backlash of those flags being moved.

In fact, there is no logical reason for suggesting its a negative in any meaningful way.

Yet....somehow....he is 'no good' because of it?


Do you ever get the feeling that you've had a lobotomy in your sleep because your brain can't compute how something like this is an issue?  ::)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 24, 2022, 03:35:59 pm
Talk about too close to call.
and every vote counts etc

Preference count - Deakin
Liberal Party
Michael Sukkar(MP) MP Vote:50.0%
41,320


Labor Party
Matt Gregg Vote:50.0%
41,246


Michael Sukkar leads by 74 votes.
76.2% of votes counted.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 24, 2022, 03:54:54 pm
There are no winners in politics, you are just biding your time until you eventually lose!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 24, 2022, 04:05:05 pm
You have to give it to Murdoch's Hun, they are persistent.

Today they are pretty much re-running articles predicting a downfall of Labour, in the past it was the downfall of Federal Labour due to the fallout from State Labour, now it's State Labour shooting itself in the foot causing it's own downfall.

They are a bit like Caro, continually re-running the same tweaked story until at some stage in the distant future if becomes close enough to some event that you can claim it was a prediction!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 24, 2022, 04:07:01 pm
While they're implementing "insubstantial changes", they should move Australia Day to a day that everyone can celebrate. As Thryleon says, it's not as though that change really matters, so there should be no objections.

I object. My birthday is on the 25th.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 24, 2022, 04:20:23 pm
Talk about too close to call.
and every vote counts etc

Preference count - Deakin
Liberal Party
Michael Sukkar(MP) MP Vote:50.0%
41,320


Labor Party
Matt Gregg Vote:50.0%
41,246


Michael Sukkar leads by 74 votes.
76.2% of votes counted.
Met him at Laburnum station many years ago when he was a newbie wannabe, felt like taking a wash when I got to work.
A very slippery smooth customer with charm who markets himself well, he will be wanting three recounts if he loses...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 24, 2022, 05:49:55 pm
I object. My birthday is on the 25th.
Moving it to 25 Jan would suit everybody then!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 24, 2022, 09:23:32 pm
So a minute after a flag appears you're seem to be bagging them for not making a real difference! :o

In any case, I'm not sure anybody is lauding anyone at this stage, but that is yet another contrast that exists whether it's superficial or not!
how on earth did you arrive at this conclusion?  Anyone who bags a sitting politician who got elected on Saturday for inaction on Tuesday needs their head read, and you could argue the opposite is an identical scenario.

While they're implementing "insubstantial changes", they should move Australia Day to a day that everyone can celebrate. As Thryleon says, it's not as though that change really matters, so there should be no objections.

Hilarious.  Can't change Australia day.  Hes too busy instituting radical change of putting up some flags and then jetting off to Japan at the first opportunity.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 24, 2022, 09:36:59 pm
Great move, wasn't it, for Morrison to set the election for a few days before the Aukus meeting? Apparently, he preferred to have the extra week of campaigning in the hope he could catch Albo. Never let it be said Scomo put his own interests above the country's.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Micky0 on May 24, 2022, 11:11:25 pm
Sorry mate, you have to understand something.

Whether those flags existed next to the podium or not makes no difference.

Sure, semiotic and symbolic change, but to laud the incumbent for executing a change, when there are Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island flags on every government building around the country is absolutely not making any real difference aside from optics.

Let me tell you what this actually becomes about.  One upmanship.  The next leader from any party, can then wear a flag on the label of their clothing when in public.

Its like when they support the minority groups national days.  Its all vote winning optics and celebrating what our great country is about...  :D

To me this stuff is all optics based quick wins.

Putting two flags up is about as difficult as brushing your teeth in the morning.

The semblance of doing something whilst not really doing anything, and you can get the work experience kid to do it.

It was the responsibility of the students to run the flag up the flagpole when in high school. 
Well you’ve just proven how crap scumo was then - if it was so damn easy, even he should’ve been able to achieve it!

And maybe you and others here don’t care about it and see it as ‘just optics’ but maybe… just maybe… it means a lot to others.

Seriously 🙄
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Micky0 on May 24, 2022, 11:18:11 pm
You know I always think Australia should be one of the most progressive countries in the world - we are far removed from a lot do crap that goes on in other countries, we have a decent climate, we have space, we have many intelligent people, we could and should be innovative and progressive and inclusive and lead the way, help other countries and people in need, we are a rich nation, we have endless opportunity - and then I see 3 people on this site voted for that dickhead Clive Palmer! I mean really!? 

And I read all this rubbish about dICtATor dAN and being taken over by the Chinese and just such a load of crap.

And it reminds me - there are still people buying ehe Herald Sun out there! There are still people happy to ignore the absolute blatant corruption and ‘jobs for the boys’ bullcrap of the LNP, happy to have a drunk Barnaby in parliament, happy to have Pauline Hansen sit in a Burqua and offend everyone that isn’t a stale white male, happy to belittle the Greens for wanting to protect our amazing planet, happy to Have that wretched self serving happy clapping dog whistling POS as our PM; and i shake my head!

Get with the program people, Australia is better than that!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 25, 2022, 08:17:26 am
Well you’ve just proven how crap scumo was then - if it was so damn easy, even he should’ve been able to achieve it!

And maybe you and others here don’t care about it and see it as ‘just optics’ but maybe… just maybe… it means a lot to others.

Seriously 🙄

I didnt even know what you guys were talking about until it was raised on this very forum.  It speaks for where the public are at rather than where the politicians are at. 

Id much rather see what they are going to do with respect to employment, government policy, the ongoing pandemic, the war in Ukraine, our trade deals etc, trying to stave off inflation causing economic bedlam but no the flags are a monumental change.

I didnt need to prove Scomo was crap, he did that himself and I think people are misunderstanding my position on this.  To laud someone for putting flags up speaks for why modern politics is a race to the bottom and why our prime ministerial candidates are pretty crap.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 25, 2022, 09:36:48 am
You know I always think Australia should be one of the most progressive countries in the world - we are far removed from a lot do crap that goes on in other countries, we have a decent climate, we have space, we have many intelligent people, we could and should be innovative and progressive and inclusive and lead the way, help other countries and people in need, we are a rich nation, we have endless opportunity - and then I see 3 people on this site voted for that dickhead Clive Palmer! I mean really!? 

And I read all this rubbish about dICtATor dAN and being taken over by the Chinese and just such a load of crap.

And it reminds me - there are still people buying ehe Herald Sun out there! There are still people happy to ignore the absolute blatant corruption and ‘jobs for the boys’ bullcrap of the LNP, happy to have a drunk Barnaby in parliament, happy to have Pauline Hansen sit in a Burqua and offend everyone that isn’t a stale white male, happy to belittle the Greens for wanting to protect our amazing planet, happy to Have that wretched self serving happy clapping dog whistling POS as our PM; and i shake my head!

Get with the program people, Australia is better than that!

Good on you, MO, for your strong comments and stand.

I shake my head at the puerile and childish promises from clowns like Palmer. Astonishing that anyone could buy such an absurd platform... basically, 'vote for me and everybody will be free.' C0ckhead.

As for Hansen... I know what she hates but have absolutely no idea what she actually stands for that would benefit this great nation.

As for SloMo... I find myself feeling sorry for the poor bloke, a square peg in a round hole. I actually think he'd be better off leaving politics and becoming a Pastor of his Pentecostal Church  ;) Leading a fundamental church may well be his true calling ;D

We certainly live in interesting times. Times that call for those leaders who understand the need for change and how to manage that change. Science and human rights 'denialists' are indeed sad critters but there's enough of them to be financially viable for some media outlets to make a quid... front and centre - News Ltd/Fox. Rita P and Andrew B feed the fearful hard Right with their hysterical (use both meanings) language and obscenely shallow and divisive headlines.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 25, 2022, 10:29:41 am
News Ltd/Fox. Rita P and Andrew B feed the fearful hard Right with their hysterical (use both meanings) language and obscenely shallow and divisive headlines.
It's genuinely amazing what money can buy, because for Rita P a small segment of that audience she panders to, if they are given too much freedom to express themselves, are highly likely to string her or some of her relatives up, especially if they run out of politicians or authorities to rally against!

Which begs an even bigger question for me to ask Rita, why?
 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 25, 2022, 10:49:03 am
One thing about the whole election is how lucky we are in Australia.  Lucky that we get some semblance of a say.  Lucky that opposing parties will call each other conceding defeat.  Lucky that there is no violence.  Lucky that the result is accepted and everyone moves on.  Lucky that two days after an election a new PM can start going about their business.

There aren't many countries in the same position.

Yes, there is a bit of whingeing about views of whether the correct party won or not, but it doesn't stir up hatred, or violence.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 25, 2022, 10:53:46 am
It might be time for this new parliament to pass more stringent laws concerning media ownership. What's Murdoch going to do? Threaten to unleash a concerted attack on Labor through his media holdings? He's already done that and had about as much impact as Clive Palmer. The Emperor has been shown to have no clothes.

In case anybody thinks that it would be anti-democratic to "punish" a media owner for using his media entities to express his own views, I'd make 2 points. First, he has managed to wield his influence to water down the restrictions on the concentration of media ownership - reversing that corruption of public policy would improve our democracy. Secondly, the way Murdoch runs Fox News in the USA should be evidence enough that he should have absolutely no media involvement in Australia. He has used Fox News to incite anti-democratic fervour. He seems perfectly fine with a white nationalist overthrow of democracy. How in hell isn't that grounds for expelling him from the Australian media landscape?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 25, 2022, 11:38:35 am
Palmer's only interest in Politics is to help further his business interests, just another greedy individual wanting to use people to grow his wealth.Pauline isnt the sharpest tool in the shed and provides plenty of amusement in Parliament, no one takes her seriously and her stunt with the burqua was more about getting some front page news attention for her struggling party and personal profile. I couldnt care if she wears her Pj's to work or what image she presents to be honest because the only people she will be offending are those who dont understand that she struggles in intellectual matters and her knowledge is at a basic level with no idea of the bigger picture so you cant be angry unlike Palmer who knows exactly what he is doing and saying.
ScoMo is another manufactured politician out of the can, you know what you are getting and what he stands for and there is some honesty in that, Albo of course has been portrayed as the little battler from the council flat but how things have changed, he now has a nice property portfolio with 5 properties, ScoMo for all his faults has the one property.
Prominent labor MP Tony Burke makes me laugh when he talks housing, very critical back in the day of Joe Hockey suggesting to Joe that  he needs to act because ordinary home owners were being forced to pay more and miss out on properties due to the glut of investors and surprise surprise  honest squeaky clean Tony Burke has six properties in his portfolio....how funny.
I could list multiple MP's from both the LP and Labor who have large property portfolios but I would be typing all day, just shows how similar both sides of politics are and you are really voting for the same beast just dressed up a bit differently and how they all become Pigs of George Orwells animal farm when they get a bit of power and money.
Thry is right about the flags too.....window dressing, the new Indigenous Minister Linda Burney  was recently talking about the lack of housing in the NT for indigenous folk, maybe if she sold a couple of her 5 properties that might be a start, I guess she is traditional owner but I just find both sides of politics hypocritical to the point of absurdity...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 25, 2022, 11:55:41 am
Not sure that the property holdings of particular MPs is relevant. It would be if they sought to advance policies that would benefit those holdings but remember that one of the policies Labor took to the previous election was getting rid of the negative gearing deduction. In that sense, they were acting contrary to self-interest (although we don't know whether they claimed that deduction) and in the public interest.

In any event, the idea that it would be in the public interest for individuals to limit themselves to owning just 1 house is a bit debateable. Young people also need rental opportunities and that generally requires investors to have 1 or more houses in addition to their own residence. Cut those investors out of the market and you have a rental crisis.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 25, 2022, 12:17:33 pm
Young people also need rental opportunities and that generally requires investors to have 1 or more houses in addition to their own residence. Cut those investors out of the market and you have a rental crisis.
Young people are being kicked out of properties for pretty much no good reason at the moment because the great migration is causing suburban rental rates to skyrocket.

We have many friends who are finding their kids forced to move back home after years of living independently, not always because they can't afford it but because they aren't even being considered at all. You can rennovate your rental property, and then let it out to a CBD escapee at twice the normal rate and they'll only impart the odd weekend of wear and tear!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 25, 2022, 12:18:41 pm
I think it's very relevant what investments politicians have and how they portray themselves. Albo did reduce one tenants rent during Covid by 25% which was very generous of him, I guess he knew he was getting a pay rise.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 25, 2022, 12:21:32 pm
The other pressure on rental stock is the ability to commit investment properties to AirBnB or other short-stay services. Not great for aspiring renters or for neighbours, but it can offer better returns. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 25, 2022, 12:28:02 pm
The other pressure on rental stock is the ability to commit investment properties to AirBnB or other short-stay services. Not great for aspiring renters or for neighbours, but it can offer better returns.
Insurance is a killer though, AirBnB is not as lucrative as many suspect especially if you aren't doing the maintenance tasks yourself, and during lockdowns when you weren't allowed to take bookings the insurance fees go through the roof because the property is technically vacant. Plus many councils are now cracking down on who can operate as AirBnB, they want their pound of commercial flesh.

But if you are a single mum or retiree who can swindle a property in the right location and do all the work yourself it can be a nice little earner.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 26, 2022, 10:00:13 am
Well anyone who thought Scomo would go quietly is surely reviewing that today, this bloke has turned almost immediately on those replacing him describing Dutton as "a change of curtains".

It doesn't sound like much, but this is basically a tantrum, a case of sour grapes, and it suggests to me the fight has already begun between the fundamentalists and the moderates. So his first step is to tar Dutton with some Scomo filth, brothers in arms!

It shows you just who little Scomo respects both the will of the public and his party, it is clearly all about Scomo, reading between the lines his message is "You are all idiots", "You do not know what is good for you", "I tell you what's good for you" even if I don't do anything about it, it's not my job!

He's just been handed the biggest lesson of his life, and 96hrs later it's all forgotten.

They need to consign this guy to oblivion because it looks to me like he is preparing to burn the house down!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 26, 2022, 10:08:24 am
A burning down might be the best thing for that party.
It usually is after an electoral defeat.
It's a cleansing process.
Get all the factional crap out in the open.
See where folks really stand.

Tanya Plibersek reckons Dutton looks like Voldemort and will scare the kids ;D
She's apologised....but you can't unsee it ;)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 26, 2022, 10:14:23 am
Get all the factional crap out in the open.
But it's the coalition they don't have factions! :o

Tanya Plibersek reckons Dutton looks like Voldemort and will scare the kids ;D
She's apologised....but you can't unsee it ;)
There it is the contradiction of these woke times, they are only woke and considerate in one aspect, internally, if he'd said that or something similar about her they would have called for him to be strung up!

She's basically feeding the fundamentalist right, the ALP should give her the lemonsars before she puts a bigger foot in her mouth! No wonder some of her colleagues couldn't go on, if she blurts that in public imagine what she emits in private!
 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 10:56:44 am
Wow, you're being a bit of a snowflake!

You've forgotten the other part of the "What if?". If such a comment had been made by a Liberal, the Liberals would have smirked at any call for disciplinary action and doubled down. I seem to recall that the Liberals laughed off calls for action after "Ditch the Witch!" signs were displayed when Tony Abbott was talking at rallies. Of course, that was just humorous, wasn't it? Although it was more of a single entendre than a double entendre. About the only linguistic dexterity displayed in those signs was using 'witch' rather than 'bitch', although perhaps the former was no more euphemistic. In the end, the voters were the ones who disciplined the LNP by first kicking Abbott out of Wentworth and recently backing the Teal bath.

On the other hand, Plibersek's comment was funny. As Homer would say, it's funny because it's true. And it's not as though she's the only one who has noticed the similarity. If it had just been a sledge about looks, then that would have been worthy of condemnation. But the unspoken part of the comment that his similarity in appearance would scare the children was that their parents should also be scared because he acts like Lord Voldemort. After all, this is the guy who decided for party political purposes to rattle the sabre about Australia needing to prepare for war against China. As the ASIO head said recently, that sort of rhetoric isn't helpful. At least when Howard seized on the Tampa scare campaign, he was picking on a group that couldn't nuke us.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 26, 2022, 11:11:04 am
plibersek .... always been a two faced nobody
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 26, 2022, 11:14:46 am
Wow, you're being a bit of a snowflake!
I won't be hypocritical, if Albanese's flag effort meant something no matter how trivial, then so does Plibersek's comment. I hold no bias, I want them all accountable to the same standards.

The Coalition should have acted on those comments as well, they were just as bad, Albanese has made the statement he wants to lift the standards so I see this as a test. Ditch the Witch was quite lyrical as well, that doesn't make up for it being offensive and stupid.

I can't understand why Plibersek made that comment, she is not a political newbie, she must either be trying to expose Albanese as a soft touch and throw him under the bus early or she is an utter idiot that can't be trusted in her official duties.

Raising the standards, does it mean something?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 11:25:35 am
Humour is a political weapon and this was a nice little shiv to Dutton's flank. He's busy trying to market himself as warm and cuddly with the help, no doubt, of Murdoch (although I can't say as I avoid his mastheads like the plague). IMO, this sort of comment was in no way out of bounds and is a classic example of the power of humour to cut through marketing hype. No doubt the political cartoonists and meme makers will take up the cudgels shortly.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 26, 2022, 11:49:40 am
So do you think this is now all acceptable because it comes from a female ALP minister?

It seems a bit tone deaf, a real failure to read the room from Plibersek!

I would have been shocked if Albanese had let this slip just days after his raising the standards commentary, thankfully he didn't and he has made a point of highlighting the error or Plibersek's ways this morning. Even so she has come out of this looking like a dullard and I doubt she can be trusted not to spew such garbage again. Judging the effectiveness of politicians by their appearance and such!

I do understand she may have been baiting the conservative right, but you can easily highlight those dwelling in the gutter without joining them there.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 12:08:28 pm
There you go: an apology & rap over the knuckles by the leader are much more than the Liberals ever bothered to do. But that's not enough, apparently. And all of this in the aftermath of SloMo taking potshots at Albo's appearance during the election campaign. Not to mention SloMo putting his captain's pick Deves into a cosmopolitan seat and standing behind her attempt to whip up a bit of transphobia. Frankly, this suggestion that Labor should be held to the standard of Saints while the Liberals are free to stoop to any level because everybody knows they like to "own the lefties" is a joke. I sincerely hope Labor is ready to bare its knuckles rather than acting as a punching bag. We need another Bankstown brawler to bring the Liberals down to size. Should the Liberals choose to lay down their arms, then that's the time for an outbreak of goodwill. But the last time they went that way with Turnbull, it didn't last long and was followed by the Liberals sinking into the sewers.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 26, 2022, 12:23:36 pm
plibersek .... always been a two faced nobody
Agree, Juvenile comment, maybe Dutton came across Pliberseks dodgy husband when Dutton was a copper.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 26, 2022, 12:24:35 pm
There you go: an apology & rap over the knuckles by the leader are much more than the Liberals ever bothered to do. But that's not enough, apparently. And all of this in the aftermath of SloMo taking potshots at Albo's appearance during the election campaign. Not to mention SloMo putting his captain's pick Deves into a cosmopolitan seat and standing behind her attempt to whip up a bit of transphobia. Frankly, this suggestion that Labor should be held to the standard of Saints while the Liberals are free to stoop to any level because everybody knows they like to "own the lefties" is a joke. I sincerely hope Labor is ready to bare its knuckles rather than acting as a punching bag. We need another Bankstown brawler to bring the Liberals down to size. Should the Liberals choose to lay down their arms, then that's the time for an outbreak of goodwill. But the last time they went that way with Turnbull, it didn't last long and was followed by the Liberals sinking into the sewers.
I don't see where I've made an excuse for any earlier poor behaviours on either side of politics, but please feel free to keep using that rather childish tit-for-tat argument as a justification for the current and next issue of poor behaviour.

You would have just read about the recent election demise of Trumps handpicked storm troopers, the days of juvenile mud slinging are dead and buried, it's time for the vast bulk of the general public to hold the politicians accountable and expect a higher standard.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 26, 2022, 12:27:26 pm
Agree, Juvenile comment, maybe Dutton came across Pliberseks dodgy husband when Dutton was a copper.
@ElwoodBlues1 There seems to be more to this, I can't imagine Plibersek is the dullard she appears to be after that comment, she isn't a Pauline, so I think there may be more to this. Because it's Larry, Moe and Curly Three Stooges type activity!

It will be interesting to see what portfolio she gets now!
 
Albanese must be devastated by the apparent sheer stupidity, they have campaigned on a platform of care and respect and Plibersek delivers and "Oops I did it again!" moment! Sure it might be trivial, but it still means something, just like the flags!

Even worse, today it gives voice to Tony Abbott, he has risen and is claiming he can fix the opposition and Plibersek gave him some fresh ammunition!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 26, 2022, 01:11:38 pm
So its painfully obvious that if you are a non Greens-Independant-Labour voting, Duck/Quail/Deer hunting, Climate Change sceptic, Fisherman, you are persona non grata on this site.
Democarcy at work.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 01:25:57 pm
I'm thinking footy clubs and footy supporter sites are rather the natural hunting grounds of right-wingers. Let's face it, Carlton has a considerable Liberal heritage. Just look for the photo of a platform that was erected at Princes Park to allow Sir Robert Menzies to watch games in his Roller, far from the hoi polloi. And Malcolm Fraser was the no. 1 ticket holder too, not forgetting that Big Jack was Liberal party president.

Most footy clubs are hardly reflective of the diversity of the population either. Black & Asian players stick out like sore thumbs. While I was in the sheds changing for training, I had to endure a discussion about how best to ensure police would shoot African kids who broke into homes. The guy leading the discussion is a serving police officer.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 26, 2022, 01:41:59 pm
Should the Liberals choose to lay down their arms, then that's the time for an outbreak of goodwill.

You wish.  It isn't kevin07 and his pathetic crawling days to make up for the attention he never deserved. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 26, 2022, 02:57:56 pm
Growing instability is the earliest indicator of pending chaos.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 26, 2022, 03:00:41 pm
So its painfully obvious that if you are a non Greens-Independant-Labour voting, Duck/Quail/Deer hunting, Climate Change sceptic, Fisherman, you are persona non grata on this site.
Democarcy at work.
Firstly, I'm not sure where you get that from, I haven't seen it implied or otherwise unequivocally stated.

We should expect a higher standard of behaviour and accountability from all those who are our elected representatives, government, opposition or independent, they are paid by us the public to serve the public, they are not paid by us to grow fat on vitriol.

We didn't vote them in to become "The Leader", we vote them in so that they can serve!

(https://c.tenor.com/_B6adJ8x79YAAAAC/lider-simpsons.gif)

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 26, 2022, 03:28:27 pm
I'm a neutral with regard the two major parties and both have their pros and cons.
I'm just surprised Plibersek would go the man so early on after Albo said he wanted
everyone playing the ball and especially when you have a husband who was found guilty of drug dealing and spent time in the big house and target a bloke like Dutton who was a copper in his previous life.
Going to be hard for Albo when your deputy has the undeveloped mind of a 12 year old...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 26, 2022, 03:46:43 pm
I'm thinking footy clubs and footy supporter sites are rather the natural hunting grounds of right-wingers. Let's face it, Carlton has a considerable Liberal heritage. Just look for the photo of a platform that was erected at Princes Park to allow Sir Robert Menzies to watch games in his Roller, far from the hoi polloi. And Malcolm Fraser was the no. 1 ticket holder too, not forgetting that Big Jack was Liberal party president.

Most footy clubs are hardly reflective of the diversity of the population either. Black & Asian players stick out like sore thumbs. While I was in the sheds changing for training, I had to endure a discussion about how best to ensure police would shoot African kids who broke into homes. The guy leading the discussion is a serving police officer.
Go and live out at Delahey and try and shop when a dozen African kids swoop on the supermarket in a group then steal what they want, terrify shoppers and staff then run off knowing the cops won't get there because the closest cop station is to far away.
Then wake up in the morning and find your street with 4 or 5 cars smashed up with baseball bats...guess who again.
Oh and if you like uninvited guests knocking on your door, casing the joint for entry points and an idea of whose at home or not move to Delahey or Caroline Springs..guess who again.
Security Shutters, Alarms and Two large German Shepherds later that has to be part of your budget and lifestyle if you want to live there..bit like being in Joburg.
The Dogs work best, nothing like a big Shepherd to act as a deterrent, the cops get the offenders in court but then they are back out again thanks to social workers, members of clergy etc and it's just a cycle of despair for locals who can't get a police station built close enough to the action...hello Dan Andrews.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 03:52:24 pm
Dutton was a sexual offence cop in Qld, so I'm not sure how you infer some sort of animosity over a prosecution that occurred in NSW before Plibersek met her husband. Maybe it might surprise you to discover that her husband is now Dominic Perrottet's right-hand man, serving as his Secretary of the NSW Department of Premier and Cabinet. I'm guessing that means he isn't part of the Hell's Angels drug running efforts. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 04:02:29 pm
No doubt young crims are a problem but there's plenty who aren't easily identified as African. AFAIK, Squizzy Taylor, the Morans and the others in the Carlton Crew, and Carl Williams weren't black. Italians and Vietnamese had issues in times past but as time goes on those transcultural problems have mostly receded. Does the black skin make an aggravated burglary more terrifying?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 26, 2022, 04:03:00 pm
Go and live out at Delahey and try and shop when a dozen African kids swoop on the supermarket in a group then steal what they want, terrify shoppers and staff then run off knowing the cops won't get there because the closest cop station is to far away.
Then wake up in the morning and find your street with 4 or 5 cars smashed up with baseball bats...guess who again.
Oh and if you like uninvited guests knocking on your door, casing the joint for entry points and an idea of whose at home or not move to Delahey or Caroline Springs..guess who again.
Security Shutters, Alarms and Two large German Shepherds later that has to be part of your budget and lifestyle if you want to live there..bit like being in Joburg.
The Dogs work best, nothing like a big Shepherd to act as a deterrent, the cops get the offenders in court but then they are back out again thanks to social workers, members of clergy etc and it's just a cycle of despair for locals who can't get a police station built close enough to the action...hello Dan Andrews.

Remember "I had to eat" nixon and there were no gangs in victoria?   Another ignorant motor mouthed fraud
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 04:17:48 pm
If only she'd said she doesn't hold a hose instead.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 26, 2022, 04:22:37 pm
Dutton was a sexual offence cop in Qld, so I'm not sure how you infer some sort of animosity over a prosecution that occurred in NSW before Plibersek met her husband. Maybe it might surprise you to discover that her husband is now Dominic Perrottet's right-hand man, serving as his Secretary of the NSW Department of Premier and Cabinet. I'm guessing that means he isn't part of the Hell's Angels drug running efforts. 
I know where he works and what he does and the sentence he received for importing drugs and how his sentence was reduced from nine years and to less than three. Now a senior figure in the justice system, my remark on Dutton being a cop and nailing Mr coutts trotter was just a throw away line.
I just found it very rich from the juvenile Tanya to be targeting a bloke over his looks and demeanour with a decent background in law enforcement and politics when her husband is one of dubious character all be it reformed and has had a rather charmed path, she should be thanking a good labor man in Michael egan for his path to the top...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 04:34:42 pm
What? Dutton has a decent background in politics does he? From where I stand it's a decently indecent background.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 26, 2022, 04:40:23 pm
No doubt young crims are a problem but there's plenty who aren't easily identified as African. AFAIK, Squizzy Taylor, the Morans and the others in the Carlton Crew, and Carl Williams weren't black. Italians and Vietnamese had issues in times past but as time goes on those transcultural problems have mostly receded. Does the black skin make an aggravated burglary more terrifying?
It does when they mimick the violence that
forces folk of all colours to live in gated estates with 24 hour security and think about having weapons in the home like they do in South Africa.
I don't want that for my daughter who lives in the western suburbs and has to experience that lifestyle. Her husband works rotating shifts as does she and is often alone in the evening.
These kids come in large gangs and that's why it's more terrifying, can't see Carl or the Moran's having much interest in young folk from Caroline Springs unless they like Ikea furniture...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 05:03:44 pm
Well, I knew a guy (not a close friend but we'd chat when we crossed paths) who was gunned down in the street after a Mafia guy took a contract out on him. And I knew another guy whose father was gunned down in the driveway of his family's house, again a Mafia hit. I guess terror can come in all forms. Are hitmen with guns less terrifying than black youths in a group? Fortunately, I never really had any run ins with organised crime. My closest shave was when I attended a training session at Princes Park. I was up the Legends Stand end and as I was by myself I thought I'd sit next to a group of guys in suits hoping to hear comments about the players. That was until one of them got up and approached me to ask me to move away. I don't know why I didn't tell him to rack off, but I'm pretty sure it was Mark Moran so I'm glad I didn't. Something about him made me not only get up but then ask whether I'd gone far enough before I sat down. Years later, I read in the papers that the Carlton Crew would get together at Princes Park to discuss their business. D'oh!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 26, 2022, 05:04:03 pm
Firstly, I'm not sure where you get that from, I haven't seen it implied or otherwise unequivocally stated.
You are taking the p!55 right?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 26, 2022, 05:11:45 pm
I'm a neutral with regard the two major parties and both have their pros and cons.
I'm just surprised Plibersek would go the man so early on after Albo said he wanted
everyone playing the ball and especially when you have a husband who was found guilty of drug dealing and spent time in the big house and target a bloke like Dutton who was a copper in his previous life.
Going to be hard for Albo when your deputy has the undeveloped mind of a 12 year old...

The country just got rid of one ...but kenneally will still hang around like a bad small and that bloody annoying accent
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 26, 2022, 05:20:00 pm
Well, I knew a guy (not a close friend but we'd chat when we crossed paths) who was gunned down in the street after a Mafia guy took a contract out on him. And I knew another guy whose father was gunned down in the driveway of his family's house, again a Mafia hit. I guess terror can come in all forms. Are hitmen with guns less terrifying than black youths in a group? Fortunately, I never really had any run ins with organised crime. My closest shave was when I attended a training session at Princes Park. I was up the Legends Stand end and as I was by myself I thought I'd sit next to a group of guys in suits hoping to hear comments about the players. That was until one of them got up and approached me to ask me to move away. I don't know why I didn't tell him to rack off, but I'm pretty sure it was Mark Moran so I'm glad I didn't. Something about him made me not only get up but then ask whether I'd gone far enough before I sat down. Years later, I read in the papers that the Carlton Crew would get together at Princes Park to discuss their business. D'oh!
Whilst I don't condone the behaviour, mafia and bikie types generally do harm to other mafia or bikie types. They deal out justice their way and I kind of "respect" it.
Youths with guns and knives are 100% more scary as far as Im concerned because they are indiscriminate and are happy to do harm to you or I for a packet of smokes, a mobile phone, your car etc.
I grew living in the same street as the president of a prominent OMCG. They guys congregated at the house for some pretty wild parties. As kids we marvelled at the roar of the Harleys, they always gave us a wave and rode slowly passed us. One night, some drunken mates of the Prez ran into my old mans tip truck parked out the front damaging the fuel tank. The next morning, a tow rolled up, took it away and it came back that afternoon repaired.
Our street was as safe as houses, no burglaries or trouble while they were living there.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 26, 2022, 07:02:48 pm
Organised crims aren't necessarily disciplined and smart. Often, they're combustible psychopaths. The guy I knew who was gunned down had the misfortune of allowing a guy to do some minor work on his shop in return for some free product from time to time. But it became obvious this was an extortion racket as the guy then demanded money and returned for more after being paid a grand to get rid of him. He was then thrown out of the shop.

A crime writer in The Age IIRC wrote a really eye-opening story about Jason Moran after he was gunned down. Apparently there'd been a minor traffic dispute and Moran had followed the other driver to a red light. As the reporter noted, the victim was probably feeling pretty safe when a guy wearing a Zegna suit got out of a Merc, but he hadn't noticed that he was carrying a baseball bat. The guy and his car were smacked around pretty good and the victim reported it to the police. The police took a statement from him but the police had to advise him that the perp was none other than Jason Moran of the notorious Moran family. Not surprisingly, the victim decided he didn't want to take it any further.

Then you have Jane Thurgood-Dove, a humble mother of 3, who was gunned down in her driveway with her kids in the car by a hitman who got the wrong person.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 26, 2022, 08:20:59 pm
There is exceptions to every rule, but i tend to agree with the 'bikies/mafia' looking after themselves.
There are rules, and they follow them as best they can.

I have not had any contact with apex and the rest of the african gangs, but know people who live in the area and its a case of nobody is safe. Random attacks.

Thats not suggesting i agree with going around and shooting everyone of colour, but there has to be some kind of justice because currently there seems to be none.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 26, 2022, 08:40:57 pm
plibersek .... always been a two faced nobody

At least she has the balls to say what most people think about Voldemort’s doppelgänger!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 26, 2022, 09:22:39 pm
What? Dutton has a decent background in politics does he? From where I stand it's a decently indecent background.
Dutton has been a polly for a long time and I'll correct you a bit with the fact he was a drug squad member before he moved to the sexual offenders dept in his Policing career. I'm not a fan of all his work especially as health minister where he was terrible but he does acknowledge African gang violence in Melbourne unlike the present Vic Premier so I will give him a tick for that.
Obviously his most controversial role has been that of immigration minister and in particular his hardline approach to detention and border protection...I didnt agree with his treatment of the Murugappan family who were deserving of staying in Australia but overall I am in favour of strong border protection and a thorough vetting process of immigrants.
I dont want a Sarah Hanson Young approach of anything and anyone can be welcomed in without proper checks....
Is Dutton a good fit for leader of the LP going forward and potentially Australia?....probably not.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 26, 2022, 11:16:40 pm
I'll have a guess at the result, Libs to lose 7-8 seats and lose Government.
In the Senate be a bit more of a mess with Labor getting some help from the Greens who may add another senator but still needing the support of the following,
Lambie, Hansen and Nick X.
Reckon Lambie and Hansen might have a mate each in the Senate but NickX will be on his lonesome.
So Albo to win but pushing his ideas through the Senate might need some work with the independents.Tough times ahead with  inflation, interest rates, wars etc and I reckon one term might be all Albo gets ,not a great time to govern imho.

I've been meaning to comment on this post and your courage in making such a bold prediction EB.  Even the seasoned poltical analysts wouldn't have been brave enough to make such a call.

So, how have we ended up?

Labor has won 75 seats and is leading in Macnamara by 22% so there’s little doubt that Labor will be a majority government.  On the way, the Liberals lost 10 seats to Labor, 6 to independents, and 2 to the Greens.  Labor lost one seat to an independent (but there's a question mark over that candidate's eligibility.

The Senate still has a way to go but at this stage the Liberals will have 29 senators, Labor will have 26, the Greens will have 12, the Nationals will have 3 (plus their Queensland LNP senators counted as Liberals), the Lambie Network will have 2, PHON will have two, David Pocock will be a senator and UAP could have 1 senator.

Nick Xenophon didn’t get any traction, and I think that was predictable given his past history and failure to deliver on anything.
David Pocock’s election is a bit of a surprise but probably not if you live in Canberra.

So, what does that all mean?

The Teal independents will have virtually no influence; Labor won’t need them in the House of Reps and they aren’t represented in the Senate.

Labor won’t have a majority in the Senate but will be able to pass legislation with the support of the Greens.  A quick look at David Pocock’s platform suggests that he would support most government legislation.

Of course, Labor could also pass legislation with the support of the Liberals. The Nationals, PHON, Lambie Network and UAP senators, and David Pocock, will be largely irrelevant.

While the Teal independents played a major role in consigning the happy clapper's pitiful excuse for a government to the rubbish bin of history, they will have limited opportunities to have an impact in the House of Reps.  It will be interesting to see how their impotence plays out at the next election.  Of course, independents Andrew Wilkie, Helen Haines and Zali Steggall all won their seats with increased majorities despite not being in a position to influence the previous government.

Actually, I'm very pleased that Zali Steggall was re-elected; anyone who can end the political career of the Budgie Smuggler deserves a couple of terms in Parliament  :)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 26, 2022, 11:31:03 pm
I've been meaning to comment on this post and your courage in making such a bold prediction EB.  Even the seasoned poltical analysts wouldn't have been brave enough to make such a call.

So, how have we ended up?

Labor has won 75 seats and is leading in Macnamara by 22% so there’s little doubt that Labor will be a majority government.  On the way, the Liberals lost 10 seats to Labor, 6 to independents, and 2 to the Greens.  Labor lost one seat to an independent (but there's a question mark over that candidate's eligibility.

The Senate still has a way to go but at this stage the Liberals will have 29 senators, Labor will have 26, the Greens will have 12, the Nationals will have 3 (plus their Queensland LNP senators counted as Liberals), the Lambie Network will have 2, PHON will have two, David Pocock will be a senator and UAP could have 1 senator.

Nick Xenophon didn’t get any traction, and I think that was predictable given his past history and failure to deliver on anything.
David Pocock’s election is a bit of a surprise but probably not if you live in Canberra.

So, what does that all mean?

The Teal independents will have virtually no influence; Labor won’t need them in the House of Reps and they aren’t represented in the Senate.

Labor won’t have a majority in the Senate but will be able to pass legislation with the support of the Greens.  A quick look at David Pocock’s platform suggests that he would support most government legislation.

Of course, Labor could also pass legislation with the support of the Liberals. The Nationals, PHON, Lambie Network and UAP senators, and David Pocock, will be largely irrelevant.

While the Teal independents played a major role in consigning the happy clapper's pitiful excuse for a government to the rubbish bin of history, they will have limited opportunities to have an impact in the House of Reps.  It will be interesting to see how their impotence plays out at the next election.  Of course, independents Andrew Wilkie, Helen Haines and Zali Steggall all won their seats with increased majorities despite not being in a position to influence the previous government.

Actually, I'm very pleased that Zali Steggall was re-elected; anyone who can end the political career of the Budgie Smuggler deserves a couple of terms in Parliament  :)

DJ, couldn't stand Abbott as I have said previously, his religious mania with regards abortion and banning drugs used for serious illness for women was horrendous self centered politics.
Brother Abbott we are well rid off in Parliament...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 27, 2022, 08:33:01 am
You are taking the p!55 right?
No not at all, I have no sense of humour.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 27, 2022, 09:40:47 am
DJ, couldn't stand Abbott as I have said previously, his religious mania with regards abortion and banning drugs used for serious illness for women was horrendous self centered politics.
Brother Abbott we are well rid off in Parliament...

I’m all for greater diversity in our Parliaments; they should reflect our population.  However, that shouldn’t extend to decision making based on personal religious beliefs.

At least we are largely spared the hypocrisy of politicians praying over preventable tragedies.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 27, 2022, 10:01:57 am
I’m all for greater diversity in our Parliaments; they should reflect our population.  However, that shouldn’t extend to decision making based on personal religious beliefs.

At least we are largely spared the hypocrisy of politicians praying over preventable tragedies.
Then you have the other side of it with these Church entities that operate as charities but in reality are profitable business ventures but don't pay tax and get politicians as members to keep it that way..
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 27, 2022, 10:13:24 am
How is the "Church" of Scientology even a Church?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 27, 2022, 10:20:35 am
Then you have the other side of it with these Church entities that operate as charities but in reality are profitable business ventures but don't pay tax and get politicians as members to keep it that way..

Yes, and then there are churches that aren’t legal entities and can’t be sued when their minions commit horrendous crimes.

It would be a brave government that treated religious entities like other corporations.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 27, 2022, 10:21:30 am
Yes, and then there are churches that aren’t legal entities and can’t be sued when their minions commit horrendous crimes.

It would be a brave government that treated religious entities like other corporations.
Not every Catholic Priest is a pedo, just saying.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 27, 2022, 10:45:42 am
Southern Baptists is the largest Protestant denomination in the USA and it's now having the same sort of reckoning as the Catholic Church with revelations about it moving around pastors accused of sexual offending and stone-walling complaints.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 27, 2022, 10:53:03 am
(https://static.ffx.io/images/$zoom_0.36%2C$multiply_1.9259%2C$ratio_1.5%2C$width_756%2C$x_104%2C$y_0/t_crop_custom/q_62%2Cf_auto/0d84e2a3635594ea1b7e0e1e7e86984d77e323c2)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 27, 2022, 10:54:00 am
How is the "Church" of Scientology even a Church?
Didn't the bloke who started it say it was a joke? How we let them into Aus and build/buy land is bewildering...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 27, 2022, 10:57:09 am
Perhaps we were worried Tom Cruise would have launched an attack from the nearest aircraft carrier if we hadn't.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 27, 2022, 11:26:00 am
Didn't the bloke who started it say it was a joke? How we let them into Aus and build/buy land is bewildering...
L Ron Hubbard, a SciFi author, and he didn't say it was a joke, the truth is he started it as a bet to win a debate by proving how gullible the wider public could be to some of the shyster like practises of the time including psychotherapy, chiropractics and other questionable welfare practises at the time, and he won the bet!

He also profited quite nicely from it, because he borrowed many of the ideologies from his own science fiction writing, which boosted the sale of his books.

Did you know that the term "Blowing smoke us your ar5e" stems from a real 20th century health practise, much like radium water treatment and anti-asthma cigarettes?

People, the public, in fact probably all of us, are mostly dickheads in one form or another!

But you don't want to write too much about this, they scrape the web and attack anything and anyone that raises the question, the web is flooded with official facts and studies that claim the debate / bet / wager wasn't true, but those "official reports and investigations" are all basically rooted in Scientology or Institutions connected to it. You see to focus on L Ron Hubbard is wrong, he lost control of Scientology long long ago, in fact not long after he invented it when the shysters that profit from it now saw the dollars and weaselled their way into controlling the future momentum of Dianetics. L Ron invented a scam, he didn't run with it. If we talked too much this forum will be under a DDoS attack before dawn!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 27, 2022, 11:49:58 am
They're a very sick bunch of cretins
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 27, 2022, 12:53:50 pm
They're a very sick bunch of cretins
Very sick, in terms of low morality, The Leaders as opposed to the followers.

They don't see themselves like the Orange People but they aren't really much different.

However, I make a point it's dangerous to think of them as cretins, in fact they are are far from it and probably closer having a very high emotional and social intelligence, and that makes them dangerous!

The people who fall into these religious or lifestyle schemes really are not all that different to people who fall in to a Ponzi or Pyramid scheme, and I know more than enough wealthy seemingly respected business types who have fallen prey to such scams including a few Carlton players!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 27, 2022, 01:16:45 pm
I've had run ins with them ... in SFO ... trust me, they ARE cretins. 

Add in some brutal encounters with pyramid scammers
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 27, 2022, 02:39:18 pm
You know, Orthodox Christianity has its own issues, but the priests are allowed to marry and have kids of their own.

Only the devout monks take themselves out of society, but they go to remote monasteries and isolate themselves from society.

If you do the research, its simply east meets west (the first time around) and ends in schism.   I always state, that religion is a tool used by autocrats, not the other way around, but in some cases its clear for the world to see that it has been hijacked by unsavoury types.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 27, 2022, 02:58:30 pm
Not every Catholic Priest is a pedo, just saying.

Of course not G2C, and other religions have their share too.  The faith is irrelevant when it comes to recompense for abuse.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 27, 2022, 03:10:14 pm
How is the "Church" of Scientology even a Church?
Ask yourselves the same question about [insert any religeon here].
Controversial, sure, but the deeper you dig...

Trey Parker and Matt Stone, creators of South Park and The Book of Mormon broadway show have made a career out of taking the piss from things that don't add up, and religion is a favourite topic....Mormons their 'go-to'.
Scientology is larger understood to be a new religion based on shaky foundations.

Here is the readers digest version of the mormons.
https://www.youtube.com/v/W4NemVO4JL0
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 27, 2022, 03:10:36 pm
L Ron Hubbard, a SciFi author, and he didn't say it was a joke, the truth is he started it as a bet to win a debate by proving how gullible the wider public could be to some of the shyster like practises of the time including psychotherapy, chiropractics and other questionable welfare practises at the time, and he won the bet!

He also profited quite nicely from it, because he borrowed many of the ideologies from his own science fiction writing, which boosted the sale of his books.

Did you know that the term "Blowing smoke us your ar5e" stems from a real 20th century health practise, much like radium water treatment and anti-asthma cigarettes?

People, the public, in fact probably all of us, are mostly dickheads in one form or another!

But you don't want to write too much about this, they scrape the web and attack anything and anyone that raises the question, the web is flooded with official facts and studies that claim the debate / bet / wager wasn't true, but those "official reports and investigations" are all basically rooted in Scientology or Institutions connected to it. You see to focus on L Ron Hubbard is wrong, he lost control of Scientology long long ago, in fact not long after he invented it when the shysters that profit from it now saw the dollars and weaselled their way into controlling the future momentum of Dianetics. L Ron invented a scam, he didn't run with it. If we talked too much this forum will be under a DDoS attack before dawn!

Blowing smoke up your arse comes from a treatment for drowning that was practised in the late 1700s.  Life saving stations were equipped with pipes and tobacco.

One of my grandfathers was a Scientology devotee and used to send us L Ron Hubbard’s books (scientology, not science fiction).  My Mum wouldn’t let him in the house!

He was a crook and nasty piece of work and I suspect that scientology was perfect for him.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 27, 2022, 03:55:12 pm
One of my grandfathers was a Scientology devotee and used to send us L Ron Hubbard’s books.  My Mum wouldn’t let him in the house!

He was a crook and nasty piece of work and I suspect that scientology was perfect for him.
Yes, as they say in the Mandalorian, "This is the way!"

For a grifter or scammer Scientology and it's victims are like a pollen to a bee!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on May 27, 2022, 05:06:07 pm
One of my grandfathers was a Scientology devotee and used to send us L Ron Hubbard’s books.  My Mum wouldn’t let him in the house!

He was a crook and nasty piece of work and I suspect that scientology was perfect for him.

Battlefield Earth.  118 minutes of travolta misery.  Worst movie of all time
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 27, 2022, 05:09:18 pm
Scientology or Cult of Dan, not sure what's worse.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 27, 2022, 06:13:07 pm
I'm thinking maybe the anti-Dan cult might have the highest concentration of nuffies of any group. Even people wearing tinfoil hats sit around mocking them.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 27, 2022, 06:33:41 pm
Battlefield Earth.  118 minutes of travolta misery.  Worst movie of all time
I remember Travolta going on Letterman to promote the movie, as you do.

Letterman kept asking about it, and Travolta kept deflecting wanting to talk about something else. Eventually Travolta said its a terrible movie (or something equally as taboo) and the subject was changed.

Only time i've ever seen someone badmouth their own movie, and mean it, on a tv show that they were only on to promote said movie! Thats why i still remember it to this day, it was so odd.

Of course, he was 100% correct. Its a terrible movie.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 27, 2022, 06:54:49 pm
Battlefield Earth.  118 minutes of travolta misery.  Worst movie of all time

Thankfully I’ve avoided that movie!

I meant Hubbard’s ‘serious’ scientology works rather than his sci fi books.

I started reading one of the scientology books when I was about 15.  Mum took it off me and said that I wasn’t to read such rubbish.

I never asked her why she didn’t just bin them 🤔
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 27, 2022, 08:27:57 pm
Wasn't Travolta a Scientologist at some point?  Be wary of a stranger offering a personality test!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 27, 2022, 08:32:26 pm
Wasn't Travolta a Scientologist at some point?  Be wary of a stranger offering a personality test!

Travolta and many other Hollywood stars are committed scientologists.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 27, 2022, 09:16:22 pm
Wasn't Travolta a Scientologist at some point?  Be wary of a stranger offering a personality test!
He was very much a scientologist, almost on a par with Tom Cruise in terms of status early on.

Not sure how, what, when, why, but somehow seemed to distance himself from it at the same Tom Cruise went full couch-jumpy crazy over it.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 27, 2022, 10:37:57 pm
He was very much a scientologist, almost on a par with Tom Cruise in terms of status early on.

Not sure how, what, when, why, but somehow seemed to distance himself from it at the same Tom Cruise went full couch-jumpy crazy over it.

No, he’s still a fully committed scientologist,
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 27, 2022, 10:45:49 pm
Scummo saw fit to attend the footy and wave to the camera/crowd.  He got a thunderous boo for his troubles.

You’d think the farkwit would have learned to keep his head down, particularly after his politicisation of Border Force.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 27, 2022, 11:58:04 pm
No, he’s still a fully committed scientologist,
Revolta is a big mate of Kirstie Alley who is a nutter of a Scientologist who likes to get into slanging matches with ex celeb Scientologists and in particular Leah Remini who some might remember from the long running comedy "King of Queens".
Remini has made Doco's and likes to expose Scientologist crazy practices and brainwashing techniques etc, Alley hates her guts and stalks and has a whack at her every chance she can get and its been a long running feud.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 28, 2022, 08:25:09 am
Scummo saw fit to attend the footy and wave to the camera/crowd.  He got a thunderous boo for his troubles.

You’d think the farkwit would have learned to keep his head down, particularly after his politicisation of Border Force.
So, what are the consequences? As it's a caretaker convention, I'm guessing it's gentleman's agreement without any teeth. But I'm also guessing the Senate might like to start an Inquiry into who ordered what, potentially calling Dutton before it to defend the public interest in the directed Border Force announcement. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 28, 2022, 10:53:12 am
Revolta is a big mate of Kirstie Alley who is a nutter of a Scientologist who likes to get into slanging matches with ex celeb Scientologists and in particular Leah Remini who some might remember from the long running comedy "King of Queens".
Remini has made Doco's and likes to expose Scientologist crazy practices and brainwashing techniques etc, Alley hates her guts and stalks and has a whack at her every chance she can get and its been a long running feud.


There is a couple of good scientology docos out there which exposes how heavy handed the Scientologists are to anyone who tries to walk away.

One of the things they make you do when you come on board is confess your biggest secrets as part of a cleansing ritual or sorts.
In reality, all this is a giant dirt digging mission that is used against you as blackmail when you try and leave. Its a good way to keep people in and scared of leaving. So if some Hollywood type actors admitted to being gay for instance, it would be very hard for them to leave without that kind of information coming out and ruining their career....for example.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 28, 2022, 12:13:42 pm
Scummo saw fit to attend the footy and wave to the camera/crowd.  He got a thunderous boo for his troubles.

You’d think the farkwit would have learned to keep his head down, particularly after his politicisation of Border Force.

Dan would never be able to go to the footy.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 28, 2022, 05:18:04 pm
Yep, it'll be at least 4 years until he'll have time on his hands like Slomo does now.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 28, 2022, 05:38:15 pm
Dan would never be able to go to the footy.
Actually he goes to many CheatsFC home games already, he's one their top ticket holders if not the top ticket holder, they haven't reported their No.1 for a few years.

I believe our No.1 was Josh Frydenberg, not for much longer! :o
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 28, 2022, 05:41:40 pm
The club was contacted about Josh and we are committed to him for 2022 so at least he'll be the number 1 ticket holder in a premiership year before we kick him out.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 28, 2022, 05:44:44 pm
Actually he goes to many CheatsFC home games already, he's one their top ticket holders if not the top ticket holder, they haven't reported their No.1 for a few years.

I believe our No.1 was Josh Frydenberg, not for much longer! :o
Didnt know Dan was an Essendon supporter, its all making sense now....
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 29, 2022, 12:21:33 am
Actually he goes to many CheatsFC home games already, he's one their top ticket holders if not the top ticket holder, they haven't reported their No.1 for a few years.

I believe our No.1 was Josh Frydenberg, not for much longer! :o

Josh is currently our joint number 1 ticket holder with Vivienne Kerr.  I suspect that he'll relinquish that status as soon as possible.

I think that Lance Armstrong is still Essnedon's number 1 ticket holder.  Dan is 2 or 3.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 29, 2022, 06:25:39 pm
Josh is currently our joint number 1 ticket holder with Vivienne Kerr.  I suspect that he'll relinquish that status as soon as possible.

I think that Lance Armstrong is still Essnedon's number 1 ticket holder.  Dan is 2 or 3.
🤣
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 30, 2022, 11:20:11 pm
Labor’s absolute majority is now confirmed.

The Teal independents and Greens are now largely irrelevant in the House of Reps.  I wonder what that will mean for future elections 🤔

Labor will have to rely on Liberals, Nationals or Greens to get legislation passed in the Senate.  Albo’s expertise as a negotiator will be put to the test.

The best thing about the election results is that Pauline Hanson’s farkwits and Clive Palmer’s sociopaths are irrelevant 🙂
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 31, 2022, 11:05:49 am
Labor’s absolute majority is now confirmed.

The Teal independents and Greens are now largely irrelevant in the House of Reps.  I wonder what that will mean for future elections 🤔

It's an interesting situation.
Speaking generally, these Teal independents seem to be intelligent, successful women who have had good careers prior to politics.
It appears Zali Steggall has done enough locally to consolidate her seat.
Her opposition was a  bit of a train wreck but credit to her.
While she may not have impacted nationally, she does well locally.

So the question arises.
Will being a good local candidate, working for the local community, be be 'enough' for the Teals ?
The election result means they are essentially 'powerless' to progress their agendas.
Sure, Labor will probably push through major elements of their platforms...but perhaps not quite to the extent they hoped.

So in three years time will they have the desire to 'go around again' or will they look to return to former careers and pursuits where they have more control and opportunity.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 31, 2022, 11:40:15 am
It's an interesting situation.
Speaking generally, these Teal independents seem to be intelligent, successful women who have had good careers prior to politics.
It appears Zali Steggall has done enough locally to consolidate her seat.
Her opposition was a  bit of a train wreck but credit to her.
While she may not have impacted nationally, she does well locally.

So the question arises.
Will being a good local candidate, working for the local community, be be 'enough' for the Teals ?
The election result means they are essentially 'powerless' to progress their agendas.
Sure, Labor will probably push through major elements of their platforms...but perhaps not quite to the extent they hoped.

So in three years time will they have the desire to 'go around again' or will they look to return to former careers and pursuits where they have more control and opportunity.

"Grabs umbrella to shield from the abuse about to come my way."

Aside from "teal Independents" is it possible that they actually have already progressed their agendas by being elected.  Mission accomplished is all they see because women beat men at an election?

The status quo remains governmentally and thats fine.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 31, 2022, 12:23:04 pm
A speaker needs to be appointed by Labor.  If they come from the Labor party, doesn't that mean they have 75 members to vote.  Need 76 votes to pass.  The last time this happened, the speaker (Peter Slipper) was appointed from Independents and he was in strife with taxi rorts?

Some lower house negotiation may be required, but not as much as the upper house.  Part of the Teal appeal was that they represented some of the views of the electorate, unlike Labor/LNP.  Labor would be making a mistake if they ignored them.

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2022, 01:43:35 pm
A speaker needs to be appointed by Labor.  If they come from the Labor party, doesn't that mean they have 75 members to vote.  Need 76 votes to pass.  The last time this happened, the speaker (Peter Slipper) was appointed from Independents and he was in strife with taxi rorts?

Some lower house negotiation may be required, but not as much as the upper house.  Part of the Teal appeal was that they represented some of the views of the electorate, unlike Labor/LNP.  Labor would be making a mistake if they ignored them.

The Speaker has a tiebreaker vote so Labor will still have a majority in the House.  That would only be required if the Libs, Nats, Greens and independents all voted against Labor.  However, I suspect there could be some negotiations with the crossbench to find an "independent" Speaker.

Albo seems pretty keen to have an inclusive government and was the last Labor government's key negotiator with the independents.  Kerryn Phelps was on the wireless this morning and mentioned how good Albo was when negotiating with her and the other independents.

The independents all seem to be around the centre so there shouldn't be too many points of difference.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on May 31, 2022, 01:51:59 pm
Andrew Wilkie is the obvious choice. He has strong local support and his constituents wouldn’t feel let down if he becomes an umpire rather than player. That might not be the case with just-elected independents whose constituents might expect some action on the floor.

The downside would be that the speaker’s chair couldn’t be used as a bone to resolve factional demands and appointing Wilkie may mean Labor doesn’t get to put a finger on the scales when the action on the floor heats up. For instance, Bronwyn Bishop’s selective hearing meant she rarely heard any LNP comments that may have warranted action.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 31, 2022, 02:47:26 pm
A speaker needs to be appointed by Labor.  If they come from the Labor party, doesn't that mean they have 75 members to vote.  Need 76 votes to pass.  The last time this happened, the speaker (Peter Slipper) was appointed from Independents and he was in strife with taxi rorts?

Some lower house negotiation may be required, but not as much as the upper house.  Part of the Teal appeal was that they represented some of the views of the electorate, unlike Labor/LNP.  Labor would be making a mistake if they ignored them.



Still 2 seats in doubt.

looking like 1 for the libs and 1 for ALP, so could end up with 77 equating to 76 + speaker,
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2022, 07:23:05 pm
It’s now confirmed that Labor has 77 seats so the Speaker is less of an issue.

I like Mav’s suggestion that Andrew Wilkie take the role.  He wouldn’t play favourites but I suspect that he would prefer to have the freedom to pursue his own agenda.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 31, 2022, 09:49:46 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ97mTC_Ywk
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2022, 11:23:09 pm
I love the fake Ikea billboard:
Geez Clive ...
$60 million and not a single seat?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 01, 2022, 04:39:23 pm
Tanya Plibersek overlooked as Education Minister, seems a strange call by Albo to me given her experience and interest
in the position over the years. Albo has denied its a demotion and has also been accused of demoting a leadership rival, for her part Plibersek has said she is happy with the switch to that of Environment Minister which occurred after the Greens won the seat of the former Labor shadow minister for the environment in Terri Butler.
Most of Albo's front bench got their preferred ministry so I find it odd that such a senior high profile female Labor polly  like Plibersek didnt...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on June 01, 2022, 04:56:21 pm
Tanya Plibersek overlooked as Education Minister, seems a strange call by Albo to me given her experience and interest
in the position over the years. Albo has denied its a demotion and has also been accused of demoting a leadership rival, for her part Plibersek has said she is happy with the switch to that of Environment Minister which occurred after the Greens won the seat of the former Labor shadow minister for the environment in Terri Butler.
Most of Albo's front bench got their preferred ministry so I find it odd that such a senior high profile female Labor polly  like Plibersek didnt...
Can't please everyone all the time.

Maybe he rates her work and wants her to focus on the environment which is largely overlooked by australian governments regardless of which side of the fence you are on.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 01, 2022, 05:07:18 pm
Can't please everyone all the time.

Maybe he rates her work and wants her to focus on the environment which is largely overlooked by australian governments regardless of which side of the fence you are on.
I thought you would want to please one your most senior female ministers who has helped you get elected, Education is seen as the more senior role and Plibersek has been a strong respected advocate for Labor over the years in this area.
Interesting how Labor have two departments crossing over with Chris Bowen in charge of Climate Change and Energy and Plibersek looking after Environment and Water...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on June 01, 2022, 08:39:06 pm
Tanya Plibersek overlooked as Education Minister, seems a strange call by Albo to me given her experience and interest
in the position over the years.
How could you put a person who body shames another person, in effect behaving like a social media type bully, in charge of educating our children?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on June 01, 2022, 09:06:27 pm
Probably paying for voldemort faux par.

All it did was gain a bit of sympathy for Dutton.

No one likes a shallow bully politician.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on June 01, 2022, 09:13:07 pm
How could you put a person who body shames another person, in effect behaving like a social media type bully, in charge of educating our children?

Because they're no different to the Liberals despite what they preach. Mav is right, don't hold them to higher standards.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on June 01, 2022, 09:17:47 pm
How could you put a person who body shames another person, in effect behaving like a social media type bully, in charge of educating our children?

Might have earned herself an enemy with her bitchy comment.  Totally deserved
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Micky0 on June 01, 2022, 10:54:48 pm
I can’t take these comments seriously.

Stop reading the herald Sun. Please.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on June 01, 2022, 10:58:16 pm
You can certainly spot those who take their talking points from Murdoch.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on June 01, 2022, 11:06:00 pm
I reckon it's because she thought Africa was a country.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/tanya-plibersek-mistakenly-calls-africa-a-country-says-real-embarrassment-is-coalition-cuts-to-foreign-aid-20140903-10bpvc.html

You can't have an Education minister who thinks Africa is a country.

Or can you?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6154057/Education-Minister-Dan-Tehan-describes-Africa-nation-Parliament-Question-Time.html
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mantis on June 02, 2022, 01:26:30 am
Keep the worry Lods if she thinks Tasmania is a country.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 04, 2022, 12:39:06 pm
Didn't take long, Albo has broken his first election promise , there will be no change to the live export trade policy.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 04, 2022, 04:41:44 pm
Didn't take long, Albo has broken his first election promise , there will be no change to the live export trade policy.
No! Who woulda thunk it.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on June 04, 2022, 05:22:40 pm
It seems strawman enthusiasts are never so happy as when they make up promises they claim have been broken. Even before the election, the claim was made on this site that Albo had promised to increase minimum wages by 5% even though no such promise was made. As has been stressed by reasonable observers, only the FWC has the power to do that. Now we have a false assertion that Albo promised to stop live exports within this parliamentary term. That’s just not true. Shorten promised to end live exports within 5 years (note, there was no promise to end it before the following election if he won) while Albo wouldn’t commit to any timeframe. But why let facts get in the way? Let’s just assert that Albo promised to do it more quickly than Shorten …

For the record, this is a report published by the ABC on 5 May, a fortnight before the election:
Quote
For months, shadow agriculture spokesperson Julie Collins has refused to say whether the party planned to end the live sheep trade in a policy Labor took to the last federal election.

In a statement to the ABC today, a Labor party spokesperson confirmed it would ban the trade, which they said had been waning for more than 20 years.

"An elected Albanese Labor government will phase out live sheep exports in consultation with the industry and the West Australian government on what needs to happen given this decline," the statement said.

"This includes consideration of the impacts for the entire value chain of the industry."

Before the 2019 election Labor committed to phasing out the trade over five years but has remained tight-lipped about its plans since.

Labor's spokesperson did not set a timeline for ending the trade, but said the party supported "value-adding more here in Australia to create more job opportunities".

The spokesperson said Labor would not make changes to the live cattle export trade.

Exporters, rights groups unhappy

Earlier this week the Australian Alliance for Animals said Labor had already told it of its post-election plans.

The animal rights group was also disappointed.

"They haven't put a timeline on it, so it doesn't effectively meet the policy we were putting to them of phasing out the trade within three years," spokesman Jed Goodfellow said.

Labor confirms plan to end live sheep exports if Albanese becomes PM (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-05/labor-federal-election-win-would-end-live-sheep-exports/101041416)

In other words, the animal rights activists were under no delusion that the ALP had promised to ban the trade in its first term. In fact they were well aware no such promise was being given.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on June 04, 2022, 05:56:55 pm
It's Silly Season ;D
After elections the losers and their supporters always claim promises have been broken.
The winners usually say that they may have to temper expectations or commitments because of the mess they have been left.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 04, 2022, 06:04:20 pm
It seems strawman enthusiasts are never so happy as when they make up promises they claim have been broken. Even before the election, the claim was made on this site that Albo had promised to increase minimum wages by 5% even though no such promise was made. As has been stressed by reasonable observers, only the FWC has the power to do that. Now we have a false assertion that Albo promised to stop live exports within this parliamentary term. That’s just not true. Shorten promised to end live exports within 5 years (note, there was no promise to end it before the following election if he won) while Albo wouldn’t commit to any timeframe. But why let facts get in the way? Let’s just assert that Albo promised to do it more quickly than Shorten …

For the record, this is a report published by the ABC on 5 May, a fortnight before the election:
Labor confirms plan to end live sheep exports if Albanese becomes PM (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-05/labor-federal-election-win-would-end-live-sheep-exports/101041416)

In other words, the animal rights activists were under no delusion that the ALP had promised to ban the trade in its first term. In fact they were well aware no such promise was being given.
https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/05/05/labor-pledges-to-end-live-sheep-exports/
They gave the impression they were going to end live sheep exports and continue with their proposed policy from the last election, thats how I read it....looks like they rolled over to Mark McGowan who is running his own country in Western Australia and thinks a few vet checks is enough money spent and that mincing sheep live on a freighter or processing them for travel in WA isnt a big deal but farmers votes are.....Barnaby Joyce as Minister of Agriculture was a supporter of live export so I'm glad he got the ar$e too as Nationals leader..
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on June 04, 2022, 06:21:06 pm
Did you think this bit in the statement & the refusal to commit to timelines suggested Labor was hellbent on a ban?
Quote
"An elected Albanese Labor government will phase out live sheep exports in consultation with the industry and the West Australian government on what needs to happen given this decline," the statement said.

Phasing out doesn’t scream a shuddering halt to me and the consultation with the WA Govt and the industry makes it plain Labor was watering down what Shorten promised. Even the animal rights activists saw the writing on the wall.

Not that I’m elated by this position. I’d prefer a ban this term. But Labor was burnt by promises Shorten made and like it or not the lesson of electoral disasters is that you have to give up policies that hurt you. An example is the promise Shorten made to ditch negative gearing. That was a good policy but the electorate made it clear that was not on. There were too many exploiting that lurk or who were aspirationals who imagined they would exploit it on the way to becoming billionaires.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on June 04, 2022, 06:33:25 pm
Did you think this bit in the statement & the refusal to commit to timelines suggested Labor was hellbent on a ban?
Phasing out doesn’t scream a shuddering halt to me and the consultation with the WA Govt and the industry makes it plain Labor was watering down what Shorten promised. Even the animal rights activists saw the writing on the wall.

Not that I’m elated by this position. I’d prefer a ban this term. But Labor was burnt by promises Shorten made and like it or not the lesson of electoral disasters is that you have to give up policies that hurt you. An example is the promise Shorten made to ditch negative gearing. That was a good policy but the electorate made it clear that was not on. There were too many exploiting that lurk or who were aspirationals who imagined they would exploit it on the way to becoming billionaires.

No that's political speak for im going to take action after consultation if the industry agrees but if they disagree im going to do SFA about it.

You're coming across as very defensive of the Labor government Mav.  Don't take it so personally.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on June 04, 2022, 06:41:36 pm
No that's political speak for im going to take action after consultation if the industry agrees but if they disagree im going to do SFA about it.
Isn’t that what I said?

Rather than being defensive, I’m on the offensive against outright lies being spread by Murdoch and his ilk. Sky News and the Daily Mail were the ones pushing this nonsense. If those outlets claimed it’s currently winter in Australia, I’d do my homework before accepting it.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 04, 2022, 06:41:44 pm
Did you think this bit in the statement & the refusal to commit to timelines suggested Labor was hellbent on a ban?
Phasing out doesn’t scream a shuddering halt to me and the consultation with the WA Govt and the industry makes it plain Labor was watering down what Shorten promised. Even the animal rights activists saw the writing on the wall.

Not that I’m elated by this position. I’d prefer a ban this term. But Labor was burnt by promises Shorten made and like it or not the lesson of electoral disasters is that you have to give up policies that hurt you. An example is the promise Shorten made to ditch negative gearing. That was a good policy but the electorate made it clear that was not on. There were too many exploiting that lurk or who were aspirationals who imagined they would exploit it on the way to becoming billionaires.
I take Phasing out as a Yes and it will go through parliament as legislation, I take not in the term of this Government as a No and we might think about it if you elect us again.
I believe Libs 2IC Susan Ley would have supported the proposal as she was keen to support the idea a while back.
Happy to concede I am a meat eater but I wont eat meat that comes from known inhumane treatment sources or where baby animals eg Lambs, Veal or young Pigs are slaughtered. The thought of sheep being thrown into live mincers or some asian slaughterhouse beating cattle heads in with Sledgehammers makes me want to do same to the perpetrators so for me I'd like to see some bipartisan agreement reached where proper standards both here and for export are adopted.
As I said I enjoy my rib eye/scotch fillet and a parma but I want my Aus animals treated properly in the process...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on June 04, 2022, 06:44:36 pm
Isn’t that what I said?

Rather than being defensive, I’m on the offensive against outright lies being spread by Murdoch and his ilk. Sky News and the Daily Mail were the ones pushing this nonsense. If those outlets claimed it’s currently winter in Australia, I’d do my homework before accepting it.

Defensive.


All politicians are liars, and all of them break election promises probably because they don't understand the full impact of those decisions until they see the wider impact those policies effect.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on June 04, 2022, 06:56:00 pm
Not defensive. Now you’re being offensive.

You’ve conceded that the statement released before the election pretty much gave the WA Govt and the industry the ability to block action in this parliamentary term and yet you imply that Labor promised a ban in this term and broke that promise. Which is it?
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on June 04, 2022, 09:34:03 pm
Not defensive. Now you’re being offensive.

You’ve conceded that the statement released before the election pretty much gave the WA Govt and the industry the ability to block action in this parliamentary term and yet you imply that Labor promised a ban in this term and broke that promise. Which is it?

Have a rest Mav.  Ive actually criticised no one but you.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on June 04, 2022, 10:11:57 pm
Yep, I realised you were criticising no one but me. And in a thread about politicians, that’s quite something.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on June 05, 2022, 09:25:40 am
I take Phasing out as a Yes and it will go through parliament as legislation, I take not in the term of this Government as a No and we might think about it if you elect us again.
I believe Libs 2IC Susan Ley would have supported the proposal as she was keen to support the idea a while back.
Happy to concede I am a meat eater but I wont eat meat that comes from known inhumane treatment sources or where baby animals eg Lambs, Veal or young Pigs are slaughtered. The thought of sheep being thrown into live mincers or some asian slaughterhouse beating cattle heads in with Sledgehammers makes me want to do same to the perpetrators so for me I'd like to see some bipartisan agreement reached where proper standards both here and for export are adopted.
As I said I enjoy my rib eye/scotch fillet and a parma but I want my Aus animals treated properly in the process...

Well said, EB1. Same page.

I feel very fortunate to live in an area (Gippsland) where I can go to the local butcher and get locally grown grass fed rib eye and scotch fillet, but very importantly... I know the beasts have been raised well and their demise is without suffering or inhuman treatment. Likewise, I wouldn't touch any meat knowing that the beast was ill-treated. I hope it is a 'quick' phase out.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on June 05, 2022, 09:29:06 am
Defensive.


All politicians are liars, and all of them break election promises probably because they don't understand the full impact of those decisions until they see the wider impact those policies effect.

No they're not, 3 Leos. A sweeping generalisation there old son.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on June 05, 2022, 10:24:09 am
No they're not, 3 Leos. A sweeping generalisation there old son.

Sorry Baggers, you are correct.  Politicians don't lie, they make qualifying statements and never speak a categorical truth to be caught acting contradictory later.  They just move the goalposts and cover their arse with "that was true based on the information I had at the time", and then hide behind "can't recall" later.

😃

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 05, 2022, 10:35:08 am
Over promise and under deliver is standard business for parties/politicians.
There is an old saying that Truth comes at a price, Lies are cheap...
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on June 05, 2022, 12:07:16 pm
One of the paradoxes of politics is that, while folks prefer the party they favour to be in power, they find it less enjoyable as casual watchers.
It's much more fun to watch the party you dislike 'under the pump'.
It can be uncomfortable to watch the party you support under similar pressure.

The party in power is often in defensive mode as decisions it makes, or promises not kept, alienate increasing sections of the community.
Parties do get a honeymoon early on, and that's when they need to go hard with the tough decisions.
Hopefully by the time the next election comes around they're in a position to hand out a few sweeteners.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on June 05, 2022, 12:14:07 pm
Gotta say I don’t have a problem with qualifying statements. The more detail the better. The categorical statement is usually the sign of dishonesty and is watered down after the event by qualifications that weren’t made clear before an election.

The same issue arises with assessing the veracity of witnesses. The bombastic witness who states everything with certainty tends to impress the audience when compared to witnesses who try to be as candid as they can be about what they can’t be sure about.

Confusing bombast for honesty and competence is what made Trump possible. Unfortunately, our election campaigns aren’t geared towards drawing out the detail or the qualifications that should be provided. It’s much more important to see our candidates kicking a footy or eating a hot dog.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 05, 2022, 12:44:56 pm
I take Phasing out as a Yes and it will go through parliament as legislation, I take not in the term of this Government as a No and we might think about it if you elect us again.
I believe Libs 2IC Susan Ley would have supported the proposal as she was keen to support the idea a while back.
Happy to concede I am a meat eater but I wont eat meat that comes from known inhumane treatment sources or where baby animals eg Lambs, Veal or young Pigs are slaughtered. The thought of sheep being thrown into live mincers or some asian slaughterhouse beating cattle heads in with Sledgehammers makes me want to do same to the perpetrators so for me I'd like to see some bipartisan agreement reached where proper standards both here and for export are adopted.
As I said I enjoy my rib eye/scotch fillet and a parma but I want my Aus animals treated properly in the process...
x2 Don't want my meat from barbarians.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 05, 2022, 12:46:14 pm
Over promise and under deliver is standard business for parties/politicians.
There is an old saying that Truth comes at a price, Lies are cheap...
I would feed any of them.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: capcom on June 05, 2022, 12:46:41 pm
Parties do get a honeymoon early on, and that's when they need to go hard with the tough decisions.  Hopefully by the time the next election comes around they're in a position to hand out a few sweeteners.

It's gonna be brutal :)
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on June 05, 2022, 01:34:49 pm
Not sure the pressure will build now that Dutton has announced that the Liberals see no need to tack to the centre. He says they'll stay where they are and wait for the electorate to swing back towards them. Way to learn lessons from an electoral defeat! They're doing a reverse George Costanza: it's you, not us.

This was hardly unexpected though. It's like the old days watching Mark Philippoussis serving. When he missed with a 220 kmh bomb, you just knew the 2nd serve was going to be a 240 kmh missile. Always double down. That seems to be the mantra on the right wing. 
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on June 05, 2022, 03:01:26 pm
Not sure the pressure will build now that Dutton has announced that the Liberals see no need to tack to the centre. He says they'll stay where they are and wait for the electorate to swing back towards them. Way to learn lessons from an electoral defeat! They're doing a reverse George Costanza: it's you, not us.

This was hardly unexpected though. It's like the old days watching Mark Philippoussis serving. When he missed with a 220 kmh bomb, you just knew the 2nd serve was going to be a 240 kmh missile. Always double down. That seems to be the mantra on the right wing.

But the thing, is it's quite logical to just sit back and wait.
They don't have to stand for anything for the next 18 months or so.
No one will really care what they're about or what their message is.
All the focus will be on the government.
As we get closer to the next election they will have to make some calls on points of difference... but they have the luxury of waiting to determine where and when to attack.
There's no guarantee that Dutton will still be leader at that stage.

Was anyone really fussed about Labor in opposition.
It was more about the failings of the Government and Morrison's judgement in particular that drew all the focus.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: Mav on June 05, 2022, 03:51:09 pm
You’d be right if Dutton’s able to STFU and get his culture warriors to do the same. Fat chance of that!

The other thing is that you’re equating a new government with one that was at the end of its life after 4 terms. In particular, the “miracle” win in the 2019 election should have been a huge warning to the LNP as such miracles are usually only a temporary reprieve before the electorate finishes the job (e.g. Keating’s sweetest win of all in 1992). You have to go back a long way to find a 1-term government, so unless the LNP makes something happen in the 1st term, it’s unlikely something will. Abbott was a scumbag, but even his biggest detractors would have to admit that he didn’t just sit around waiting for Labor to hand him an election win.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 20, 2022, 05:32:50 pm
Gentleman Jim Chalmers has decided he wants to appoint a panel of independent experts to review the Central bank(RBA)
Obviously Jim doesnt like the umpires decision on interest rates and where thats going to take the economy under his stewardship.
Not much leeway for Jim when you have a trillion dollar debt, promises to keep and Phil Lowe telling him he wants an inflation target of 2-3% with interest rates heading Nth at a rapid rate especially as we follow the USA where extensive rate rises are a given and inflation is rife.

The AFR reported that the review would  consider the composition of the RBA board members, the appointment processes, the 2% to 3% inflation target and the joint statement on the conduct of monetary policy between the treasurer and governor”.
Thats code for Gentleman Jim wanting Phil Lowe and his team out and a more Government friendly/influenced team in to what economists would say massage interest rates rather than raise them.....

Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on July 21, 2022, 04:13:38 pm
What a norbit Scomo has turned out to be, lost the gig and now basically wants to crap on the carpet before burning the house down.

No wonder he got on so well with Trump!
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on July 21, 2022, 05:04:50 pm
What a norbit Scomo has turned out to be, lost the gig and now basically wants to crap on the carpet before burning the house down.

No wonder he got on so well with Trump!

Holy crap, never heard someone from the opposition say don't trust the governement before.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on July 21, 2022, 05:37:26 pm
The sermon was about 50 minutes. Without a proper context, it's hard to analyze too closely those juicy soundbites, but taken on face value, that childish, dogmatic, approach to religion, with a few ignorant cheap shots at the UN etc., is pretty depressing. I don't think his comment about governments was about the Labor Party, it was a expressing a hierarchical statement that you trust God or the Lord more than governments. Either way, it's rubbish.  
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on July 21, 2022, 05:39:01 pm
Gentleman Jim Chalmers has decided he wants to appoint a panel of independent experts to review the Central bank(RBA)
Obviously Jim doesnt like the umpires decision on interest rates and where thats going to take the economy under his stewardship.
Not much leeway for Jim when you have a trillion dollar debt, promises to keep and Phil Lowe telling him he wants an inflation target of 2-3% with interest rates heading Nth at a rapid rate especially as we follow the USA where extensive rate rises are a given and inflation is rife.

The AFR reported that the review would  consider the composition of the RBA board members, the appointment processes, the 2% to 3% inflation target and the joint statement on the conduct of monetary policy between the treasurer and governor”.
Thats code for Gentleman Jim wanting Phil Lowe and his team out and a more Government friendly/influenced team in to what economists would say massage interest rates rather than raise them.....

The thing is that the RBA board is made up exclusively by appointees from the corporate world, none of whom are experts in monetary policy.  No other equivalent advanced economy central bank board lacks that core responsibility expertise and requiring it would seem to be an improvement over the current jobs for the girls and boys.  There's also scope to change the mandate of the RBA so that it may consider the impact of its monetary policy on other economic issues like house prices and unemployment.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on July 21, 2022, 05:40:18 pm
Holy crap, never heard someone from the opposition say don't trust the governement before.

It was "don't trust governments" rather than the current lot.
Title: Re: Election 2022 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on July 21, 2022, 06:15:13 pm
It was "don't trust governments" rather than the current lot.

He's right.