I think we've done well to win the way we have without anything like ruck dominance.
Next week, we travel, which we haven't done well this year so far, to Sydney, to face a GWS that must be aching after being embarrassed. Who do we play on Toby Greene?
I think we've done well to win the way we have without anything like ruck dominance.
Next week, we travel, which we haven't done well this year so far, to Sydney, to face a GWS that must be aching after being embarrassed. Who do we play on Toby Greene?
Rambo.
We should have Plowman available next week: he missed with illness. He has done the job a couple of times, but he's been smashed a couple of time. If we can control the midfield, he should be more competitive. This is where we miss someone like McGovern, who has the speed and the aerial skins to get the job done.
It will be interesting to see who else comes up after injury. Martin is probably out. Hewett is a possible in, but no certainty. Dow probably needs to be rewarded. But, we've seen that mean little so far, and our midfield has been pretty good.
Having Setters and Marchbank play whole games will make the 2's better. Honey will be close. Others are less certain.
I would love to see our small forwards kicking goals, but you can't complain about the pressure they provide. Some of the tackles from Carey Durdin and Matt Owies were nothing short of brilliant. Owies has more tackles inside 50 than anyone else in the comp! Now, if they can work on their ball handling ...
Two things we don't do well this year and areas to improve
- Finish off games
- We are not a very good travelling side
We have a bit to go to have the culture of Geelong for example - but a win this week will be monumental for our season. I'm actually not expecting us to turn up as some players are very conditional. I hope they prove me wrong.
If Hewett is fit he probably comes in for Martin if he doesn't come up. I think Dow has done enough to deserve a spot...but who goes out? If Plowman is fit, does he replace Boyd for the match up on Greene?
If Hewett is fit he probably comes in for Martin if he doesn't come up. I think Dow has done enough to deserve a spot...but who goes out? If Plowman is fit, does he replace Boyd for the match up on Greene?
Boyd has had a lot of love for his game vs the Crows so I dont see him getting dropped..be Hewett for Martin or maybe Cottrell if Hewett doesnt come up. Cottrell performed ok after coming in for Martin as the sub, also remember him lining up on Whitfield and doing ok
Dow might get the sub role or maybe they go back to Setterfield.....I'd be giving Dow a run...
re: Greene....they will probably have to start Newman or Docherty on him, have the feeling he will get a few opponents.
re: Greene....they will probably have to start Newman or Docherty on him, have the feeling he will get a few opponents.
Yep, just not a type we have a convenient match up for, but then who does!
I feel we will either match him overhead or match him at ground level, but not both. So it is a real test for the coaches this week, could SoJ go with Greene and we tactically force him to compete in the air?
Maybe we just say feck it, and we go hell for leather out of the midfield and force them to use Greene up the field.
We'll lose Martin, can see Carrol floating forward as he does play the small forward role well, and Hewett coming in, that's about it for this week excluding an injury.
Can Cottrell do a negating job on Greene?
Yep, just not a type we have a convenient match up for.
I feel we will either match him overhead or match him at ground level, but not both. So it is a real test for the coaches this week, could SoJ go with Greene and we tactically force him to compete in the air?
Strong in the body is Greene as we know and a good one on one mark either using the body or flying from behind with the boot or knee finding its way into a delicate part of his opponents anatomy. With players like Greene I think you put a bigger player on them to equal or better him physically so he has to rely on leading more and relying on his teammates to deliver to his advantage.
McGovern was the ideal player for him imho but alas we dont have that option, cant see either Newman or Docherty being able to handle him the air as thats not their forte. You could bring Williamson in who has him for height and isnt slow but he isnt smart enough. I guess Plowman if fit usually gets the dirty jobs so he might get picked with Newman as plan B..
Stop the mid field delivery to Greene and we are on our way to kill his dominant play. My worry each week is how our mid field stand up. How we control the contest at ever potential clearance. We have issues with our ruck injuries. This really isn’t a game we should lose. It shouldn’t be a game we really worry about. Just don’t be complacent and make every piece of play a genuine contest. Having said that this, I may have made this a danger game. Don’t lose this one. Not now. Keep the momentum going. Keep the confidence and belief happening. We haven’t had too many problems with our clearances this season. Not for an entire game. I don’t want the wheels to fall off.
Yes, there is no perfect solution for combating a Greene type, sometimes you just have to accept the best you can do is limit their influence by reducing their opportunities but you know at some stage they'll have an impact.
GWS seem to find a way to beat us. Greene is one problem. Thankfully Finlayson isn't there to kick his customary three or four goals.
Whitfield is usually the one who kills us with his run, big test for o brien this week.
GWS don't like it hard, it's common knowledge they wilt when it gets tough and they want to play a soft brand and why players like Greene, Ward and Davis are the ones that have to be the spine of their team and lead the way.
I'd be hitting the likes of Kelly, Cogs, Whitfield hard and showing them it's going to be 4 quarters of tough football.
GWS don't like it hard, it's common knowledge they wilt when it gets tough and they want to play a soft brand and why players like Greene, Ward and Davis are the ones that have to be the spine of their team and lead the way.
I'd be hitting the likes of Kelly, Cogs, Whitfield hard and showing them it's going to be 4 quarters of tough football.
I'm sure we'll serve it up to them EB. 😎
When he was on SEN with Andy Maher and Andrew Gaze, Josh Jenkins (ex-Crow) climbed on the Blues bandwagon and started driving it. He pointed out that we have either the best or second-best midfield (Demons being the other) and key forward pair (Jez & Hawkins being the other). He also thought we'd have difficulty after Liam Jones' self-immolation but says he's now convinced Lewis Young is a worthy replacement. He said Young must be getting some pretty good support from coaches and fellow players as he's now showing some flair with intercept marking and running with the ball and he frees up Weitering who's either the best man-on-man tall defender or 2nd to May. He said he loves what Owies and Durdin are doing and now others like Saad, Williams and Fisher can concentrate on being role players. While the other 2 were more restrained, JJ queried how many of the next 3 they'd expect Carlton to win and led with his jaw by saying he expects Carlton to win all 3.
The boys love playing to their home crowd. We haven't won away. Something they need to work on. A win this week would be very nice, even nicer than if we beat them in Melbourne.
The boys love playing to their home crowd. We haven't won away. Something they need to work on. A win this week would be very nice, even nicer than if we beat them in Melbourne.
We haven't won away......while it is correct, its overstating things. We've only played 2 away,
1st against Gold Coast, where Pittonet didn't play, and we lost Cripps early. - Hitouts 52-19
2nd against Freo, who are up there with the best this year, we lost Pittonet early, and didn't have Silvagni as backup. - Hitouts 50-18
Now we seem to have adjusted to life after Pittonet and have adequate backups (not setterfield!) we are in much better shape.
Witts and Darcy monstered TDK. Goldstein is fine ruckman but he's not the most physical which allowed TDK to do his thing.
The problem with playing GWS is that you don't know which GWS is going to turn up. They have beaten Gold Coast and Adelaide but lost to everybody else. We really should beat them with our mid-field and key forwards but they do have dangerous players. They have never really played with sustained heart but they do get on rolls where everybody contributes and then their collective natural ability overpowers opposition. We really should win this one but I have been watching Carlton over the past fifteen twenty years and I don't trust them yet. If we paly sustained football we will win but the question is whether we will play sustained football.
Witts and Darcy monstered TDK. Goldstein is fine ruckman but he's not the most physical which allowed TDK to do his thing.
TDK was in the coaches votes against Darcy
TDK was in the coaches votes against Darcy
His first quarter up forward was good and he played well after Darcy went off. Against Darcy in the ruck he was monstered.
Preuss will be a much more formidable adversary. A real mongrel. Wish he was playing for us.
That's not a knock on TDK as he was giving up 10kg.
Thinking about who we play on Greene, he is a very versatile and damaging player.
Going through our list thinking about a player we have who is similar.
I think this could be a job for Kennedy who can match him for strength and mobility.
I know it is something from left field but Greene is a left field type player can turn games very quickly.
Bring Dow in to help out in the midfield.
Where Greene goes Kennedy goes and it also might make Greene accountable because Kennedy too can be damaging.
::) ::) ::)
Thinking about who we play on Greene, he is a very versatile and damaging player.
Going through our list thinking about a player we have who is similar.
I think this could be a job for Kennedy who can match him for strength and mobility.
I know it is something from left field but Greene is a left field type player can turn games very quickly.
Bring Dow in to help out in the midfield.
Where Greene goes Kennedy goes and it also might make Greene accountable because Kennedy too can be damaging.
::) ::) ::)
I reckon Saad would be the best match up, can defend and will run off him.
Yep, someone to harass him and he was my first thought as well.
I reckon Saad would be the best match up, can defend and will run off him.
That could well be the right match up. Saad is strong at the ball, maneuverable and quick. On paper at least just what you need. I don't really like Kennedy in that role as Greene's quick thinking and agility might just be too much for him. Leave him to his more usual role.
That could well be the right match up. Saad is strong at the ball, maneuverable and quick. On paper at least just what you need. I don't really like Kennedy in that role as Greene's quick thinking and agility might just be too much for him. Leave him to his more usual role.
I'd Like to think Saad will read the incoming ball and intercept it as he does week in week out. His anticipation and will to spoil is like no other in our team. He does this rarely giving away a free kick to the fwd.
Saad isnt great overhead and Greene for his inches is a strong mark and strong in the body. Saw Greene outmark Collingwoods Maynard for 4 quarters who is a strong unit and more physical than our blokes and it's one of Greene's strengths.
Double team Greene would be how I would play him and not allow him one on one.
Like Dusty, Degoey, Stringer etc once those types have you one on one and the delivery is reasonable then it's over...
Not sure there should be such an obsession with negating Greene. Yes, by all means put a hard tag on him and perhaps organise a hand over when Greene goes forward. But double-teaming him is going a bit far. Team defence should be able to give us most of what double-teaming would do as our intercept defenders will have a fair idea that Greene will attract the ball a lot. We should have an advantage at stoppages and we don't want to lose that. Getting it forward to H & Charlie should give the Giants enough to worry about. Cripps showed how to turn a double-team against the defensive team at stoppages by allowing a team mate to be loose.
I see this game as a real litmus test for us. Apart from a really lucky 1 point win in 2017, we haven't beaten this mob since 2013. And we have been mauled on several occasions.
They also have an annoying history of playing very well the week after a poor game (so the Geelong thing last week may not have done us any favours).
If we get a win this week, our season is looking very bullish. Fingers crossed.
If Stocker was fit and had more games under his belt this year I reckon he'd be given a crack at Greene. He could match him on the ground and then just rely on a third man up scenario when it's in the air. I think Plowman might come back in and get a crack at him this week.
Hard to see where Dow gets a role, especially if Hewett is fit this week? He's predominantly and inside midfielder so he's pushing sh#t up hill to get that role with Cripps, Kennedy, Walsh, Cerra and possibly Hewett in the starting 18 this week. Jack Carroll started in the square on more than one occasion last week too but I think is suited to a spot on a wing. In 2 games I think Carroll has shown he's a step up from Setterfield.
A few uncertainties surrounding players available right now. If Hewett is available, he comes in for Martin. Not sure if Plowman is available.
I'd consider Cottrell or Boyd to play small forward to replace Martin.
This is one of those games where not having Jones is a bit of an issue.
He could take Greene if the initial match up isnt working because he can play tall and small.
Switching Boyd to the forward line would be risky. Having a job to do tagging a forward is a bit easier for him as he'll be taken to the ball. He's only had 4 games and the confidence he's gained could easily be destroyed by putting him into starvation corner. Has he played much as a small forward in the VFL?
EDIT: Answering my own question, this is what the CFC published when he was picked up in the MSRD:
That 2019 year was a significant season of progression for Boyd, who went from a train-on player for Footscray’s VFL side before cementing a spot as a forward.
...
Boyd is viewed as a high forward who can use his pace and foot skills to damaging effect in the front half, but he’s added another string to his bow so far in the VFL season.
With the likes of AFL-listed Mitch Wallis, Cody Weightman and Mitch Hannan among others in the VFL forward mix for the Bulldogs, Boyd was thrown into the back half.
The 22-year-old embraced the challenge, showcasing to Carlton’s recruiting staff his flexibility and ability to adapt to a new challenge.
“It’s been an interesting one. I trained all pre-season in a forward line, midfield-wing role and it came to Round 1 and they said, ‘look we’re going to have throw you down back’,” he said.
“But I actually really enjoyed it down there, it’s been a challenge early trying to learn everything and all the different positioning, but I really embraced that.
“I’m happy to play at both ends of the ground or wherever… I’m just happy to be on the ground to be honest!”
This is one of those games where not having Jones is a bit of an issue.
He could take Greene if the initial match up isnt working because he can play tall and small.
Was thinking same, Jones has played on those awkward smalls/ mediums and had the pace to stick with them while being superior in the air.
I'd consider Cottrell or Boyd to play small forward to replace Martin.
I suspect Carroll will get that job shared with Fisher, our coaches(Voss and Power) have already talked Carroll up as a potential AFL HF/SF based on his showing in the VFL.
Not sure there should be such an obsession with negating Greene. Yes, by all means put a hard tag on him and perhaps organise a hand over when Greene goes forward. But double-teaming him is going a bit far. Team defence should be able to give us most of what double-teaming would do as our intercept defenders will have a fair idea that Greene will attract the ball a lot. We should have an advantage at stoppages and we don't want to lose that. Getting it forward to H & Charlie should give the Giants enough to worry about. Cripps showed how to turn a double-team against the defensive team at stoppages by allowing a team mate to be loose.
GWS strength is their midfield so I would expect Greene to get decent supply when the Giants have momentum unlike a few other teams we have played like Nth and the Crows where we have dominated the middle of the ground so I think we need to prepare for a player like Greene and make life harder for him. The reality is if Greene is on his game then we will probably lose...
Not sure there should be such an obsession with negating Greene.
Tend to agree, if we become too focussed on stopping we'll lose the attack side of the game, and it's basically attack that is winning us games so we should concentrate on our strengths.
I wonder if Greene would be as damaging and useful if we had guys like Doc or Saad run off him, I bet Greene hangs back more than he chases, sure we'll turn it over sometimes and Greene will benefit, but I bet we can get a net gain if we stick to the plan.
Personally I think stopping and tagging are way over-rated, they are tactics used heavily when a coach thinks he can't win enough one on ones, I doubt that our current team fits that description. I'll back Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Cerra, Hewett, Charlie, McKay, SoJ, Durdin, Weitering, Saad, Doc, Young, Owies, Newman, Newnes, etc., etc., to win or at least break even, and my confidence is much higher this season for guys like Fisher, LoB, Boyd, TDK, etc., etc..
Was thinking same, Jones has played on those awkward smalls/ mediums and had the pace to stick with them while being superior in the air.
Last year, that bomb he put through from 60 on half time was a real momentum shifter.
If SOS was still playing, he would have been perfect as well. But there's not much point considering former players.
Personally I think stopping and tagging are way over-rated, they are tactics used heavily when a coach thinks he can't win enough one on ones, I doubt that our current team fits that description. I'll back Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Cerra, Hewett, Charlie, McKay, SoJ, Durdin, Weitering, Saad, Doc, Young, Owies, Newman, Newnes, etc., etc., to win or at least break even, and my confidence is much higher this season for guys like Fisher, LoB, Boyd, TDK, etc., etc..
He's good but he's not
that bloody good. We have a team to attend to. So do they
Not sure there should be such an obsession with negating Greene. Yes, by all means put a hard tag on him and perhaps organise a hand over when Greene goes forward. But double-teaming him is going a bit far. Team defence should be able to give us most of what double-teaming would do as our intercept defenders will have a fair idea that Greene will attract the ball a lot. We should have an advantage at stoppages and we don't want to lose that. Getting it forward to H & Charlie should give the Giants enough to worry about. Cripps showed how to turn a double-team against the defensive team at stoppages by allowing a team mate to be loose.
Yes, I suspect that the GWS coaches are more worried about how to negate Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy, Docherty, Saad, Weitering and others than we are about Greene.
Our sliding defence, more defensive midfield and the hard work of our small forwards all over the ground should limit Greene’s opportunities.
I’d expect Newman, Williams, Docherty and Saad to put time into Greene.
Tend to agree, if we become too focussed on stopping we'll lose the attack side of the game, and it's basically attack that is winning us games so we should concentrate on our strengths.
I wonder if Greene would be as damaging and useful if we had guys like Doc or Saad run off him, I bet Greene hangs back more than he chases, sure we'll turn it over sometimes and Greene will benefit, but I bet we can get a net gain if we stick to the plan.
Personally I think stopping and tagging are way over-rated, they are tactics used heavily when a coach thinks he can't win enough one on ones, I doubt that our current team fits that description. I'll back Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Cerra, Hewett, Charlie, McKay, SoJ, Durdin, Weitering, Saad, Doc, Young, Owies, Newman, Newnes, etc., etc., to win or at least break even, and my confidence is much higher this season for guys like Fisher, LoB, Boyd, TDK, etc., etc..
Running off players is fine as long as you are on them when it matters and IMHO and I have been saying it all season some of our defenders dont man up at all and strike that happy balance. When your midfield dominates you can cover that because the ball isnt getting down to your defenders areas as often or as quick but I think the GWS mids are a lot better than the Nth, Crows mids we have played in recent weeks and they deserve a bit of respect. Kelly, Cogs, Ward, Taranto, Green, Whitfield and Perryman assisted by Pruess and Flynn in the ruck is a decent setup and a player like Greene will get his fair share of opportunities IMHO.
Running off players is fine as long as you are on them when it matters and IMHO and I have been saying it all season some of our defenders dont man up at all and strike that happy balance. When your midfield dominates you can cover that because the ball isnt getting down to your defenders areas as often or as quick but I think the GWS mids are a lot better than the Nth, Crows mids we have played in recent weeks and they deserve a bit of respect. Kelly, Cogs, Ward, Taranto, Green, Whitfield and Perryman assisted by Pruess and Flynn in the ruck is a decent setup and a player like Greene will get his fair share of opportunities IMHO.
We have to score
@ElwoodBlues1 tagging is not our go, and in any case we don't have the people to man them up, but we do have people who can win a head to head in the other direction.
I'll make a prediction, after this weeks game people will be back to cursing Owies, Durdin, LoB, Newnes and maybe Newman, Plowman or Cottrell subject to selection. Because this weekend if our Mids can't clearly win the battle then the deep running of LoB, Owies, Durdin and Newnes isn't going to be enough, and guys like Newman, Cottrell maybe even Plowman or Williams will be caught 1 out against 2 or 3 opponents!
Fans have been taking the deep running of LoB, Owies, Newnes and even Setterfield for granted, but those guys have been pushing hard back to make up for the likes of Cripps and Walsh being caught behind the play. However GWS is too skilled, they'll use the free player better than most clubs do, and that means nobody knows where to run!
Saad may not be good in the air, but he is good on the spoil and he is quick enough to close in on Greene on a lead, so he won't need to wrestle with him.
He is good on the tackle and will nor take a backwards step, but will run off him and force him to chase him or be burned.
Saad gets my vote.
I dont think they will burden Saad with Greene especially if the latter plays closer to goal.....the former is probably our quickest and best rebounding defender and according to Essendon didnt enjoy being told you have to mind a man deep on the goal line.
Dont get me wrong I rate him as one of the few on the list who can both defend and attack but I wouldnt be suprised to see a player like Plowman included to play a more negative game on Greene.
H out for 6 weeks, that's us then.
McKay out with knee problems
H out for 6 weeks, that's us then.
Time to bring Mirkov in and play Jack FT forward with TDK spending more time there too....
I just put this in the injury thread, but should've gone here....
I'd go for something completely different.
1. Bring in Dow, play him in the middle for the whole game.
2. Play Kennedy at FF coming out of the square.....swapping with Cripps on occassions.
3. Use TDK and Jack as ruck, resting forward
Bank 4 points.
Use the Richmond 2017 premiership model Lambert / Martin / Caddy
Butler / Riewoldt / Rioli
Fogarty Kennedy Silvagni
Owies Curnow Durham
(Motlop on the bench)
One key forward a couple of workhorses and a pack of hungry smalls
I would play Plowman forward. He doesn't need to star, just compete.
Betting has flipped. GWS $1.81 Carlton $2.04
Any chance it is going to be wet and swapping a tall for a mid size/small may be beneficial (or at least not a disadvantage)
McKays absence certainly tests the "like for like" replacement process, for as has been noticed we simply don't have a spare key forward. Kemp has the height but not the game style, the only other fit player with the physical attributes is Akeui who is miles off and a defender anyway. Yes the simplest replacement cog in the machine is Kemp, any other cog will require re-engineering if the machine is to function in the same manner as before. But the Kemp cog is a vastly inferior one to McKay. Perhaps a bigger cog in Mirkov though he is well off AFL ready. I like the idea of Kennedy and Cripps resting forward, with Hewett or if he is not fit Dow going into the mids. Fogarty (or even Motlop though I don't think him ready) in for Martin. Plowman if fit might come in Martin causing a further rejig, or in place of someone who would be unlucky to be dropped - Boyd Çottrell or Newnes perhaps. Carroll stays in for mine. All in all my preference would be Kennedy and Cripps to rotate Forward and centre and Dow into the midfield, but I suspect the match committee will go Kemp forward and keep the re-engineering of the machine to a minimum.
Charlie will need all the support he can get. I expect voss will have his hands full
Any chance it is going to be wet and swapping a tall for a mid size/small may be beneficial (or at least not a disadvantage)
20 degrees with 10% chance of rain. We are going to need the small forwards to be ultra aggressive this week.
McKays absence certainly tests the "like for like" replacement process, for as has been noticed we simply don't have a spare key forward. Kemp has the height but not the game style, the only other fit player with the physical attributes is Akeui who is miles off and a defender anyway. Yes the simplest replacement cog in the machine is Kemp, any other cog will require re-engineering if the machine is to function in the same manner as before. But the Kemp cog is a vastly inferior one to McKay. Perhaps a bigger cog in Mirkov though he is well off AFL ready. I like the idea of Kennedy and Cripps resting forward, with Hewett or if he is not fit Dow going into the mids. Fogarty (or even Motlop though I don't think him ready) in for Martin. Plowman if fit might come in Martin causing a further rejig, or in place of someone who would be unlucky to be dropped - Boyd Çottrell or Newnes perhaps. Carroll stays in for mine. All in all my preference would be Kennedy and Cripps to rotate Forward and centre and Dow into the midfield, but I suspect the match committee will go Kemp forward and keep the re-engineering of the machine to a minimum.
Not too many teams could lose their first ruckman and biggest forward and cover them easily.
We should consider this a chance to mix things up and find other avenues to goal. Harry and Charlie have been great, but we need more goals out of the other forwards and the mids.
If nothing else, we are going to learn about how resilient the group is.
Out H Martin Boyd
In Dow George Plowman (can't believe I typed that)
Cripps to FF, cometh the hour, cometh the man.
I would see Cripps and Kennedy rotations through the forward line and Hewett back into the midfield.
Bring in Mirkov to ruck and play TDK as a permanent forward in McKay's place.
Leon Cameron farewell game. Giants by 50.
Leon Cameron farewell game. Giants by 50.
Giants will lift for sure..timing terrible for us with Harry out too.
I think that it would be a mistake to cover Harry’s absence by shuffling players who are performing well in a cohesive and competitive structure. Just bring in a player to hold down Harry’s spot for a while.
If fit, McDonald would be my first choice, followed by Kemp, Plowman and Marchbank.
I suspect that the chances of Josh Cripps being rookied in the mid-season draft have improved.
Giants will lift for sure..timing terrible for us with Harry out too.
They haven’t lifted for him when it counted previously.
GWS are just as likely to drop their bundle as lift … or continue their inconsistent form.
It will be interesting to see how the GWS selection runs this week, it will be a bit of a tell about who the coach thinks should be backed versus sacked!
Giants will lift for sure..timing terrible for us with Harry out too.
Or, they are a rabble and we will pump them and send Cameron out the right way.
Leon Cameron farewell game. Giants by 50.
Goodbye Leon, hello Alistair.
Goodbye Leon, hello Alistair.
Clarkson's coaching future is still 50/50 apparently, he's genuinely torn between returning to AFL ranks and getting a Tassie side up and running, most think he can do both but not if he joins an existing AFL club.
They haven’t lifted for him when it counted previously.
GWS are just as likely to drop their bundle as lift … or continue their inconsistent form.
Their form vs us has been very consistent, they have won the last five.....
He wouldn't be the first coach to end up losing their final match.
Given the circumstances of Harry's injury and Cameron's departure, to win this now would be a huge effort. Herculean in fact.
Levi would have been handy as a break glass option. We're at that stage.
Their form vs us has been very consistent, they have won the last five.....
Most teams have consistent form against us EB ... until this season :)
Given the circumstances of Harry's injury and Cameron's departure, to win this now would be a huge effort. Herculean in fact.
All in the mindset. A few years ago we went to Geelong to face the impossible (Herculean) task, we won. Its all up to the leaders and coaches to get their heads right. We have tools. we have the game plan, just need to execute (Sorry Leon, no pun intended). It funny, I'm now more confident with the difficult games than the ones we should win. I had penciled this in for a loss some time ago, I'm not so sure now.
Bookies are onto it - GWS shortening.......
Bring in Mirkov to ruck and play TDK as a permanent forward in McKay's place.
It is time, time for Mirkov to be thrown the challenge, he's a big boy, knows our system and will just need to compete.
Being that tall he should win his fair share of taps. JSOS will help around the ground.
if Mirkov is athletic he will survive.
TDK to lead in the opposite direction to Curnow, we don't don't want friendly fire injuries by them flying for the same ball.
This seems to keep the team settled.
Either Cameron knows he has lost the players or he knows admin were undermining him. How GWS turn up might show us which one it is.
GWS', deep, hard running midfield has caused us a lot of problems in the past. Coupled with Mummy owning our rucks we never got enough first use. I was reasonably confident until H getting injured and Cameron getting the rrrs.
Don't want to see TDK become Preuss' biatch...he'll need help, but I don't know who from. I think Plowman is an OK match up for the angry man, especially in the air. At deck level he's going to need assistance, but that's team defence isn't it?
GWS', deep, hard running midfield has caused us a lot of problems in the past. Coupled with Mummy owning our rucks we never got enough first use. I was reasonably confident until H getting injured and Cameron getting the rrrs.
Don't want to see TDK become Preuss' biatch...he'll need help, but I don't know who from. I think Plowman is an OK match up for the angry man, especially in the air. At deck level he's going to need assistance, but that's team defence isn't it?
I wouldnt let Plowman anywhere near Greene except shaking hands before and after the game.
Delete
I agree but Greene would kick eight on Williams or Newman, who'd be off chasing kicks. At least Plowman would stay in Greene's postcode.
I agree but Greene would kick eight on Williams or Newman, who'd be off chasing kicks. At least Plowman would stay in Greene's postcode.
Our very good attack and midfield has to some extent masked our defensive performance which has only been so so IMHO.
We currently are the ninth best defense in the comp for points scored against and to be a good finals team I think you need to be much better than that. Losing Harry is bad but workable, losing Weitering who holds our defense together would render us done for the season IMO.
Lewis Young out as well under HS protocols....fark me. Will be the shortest team we've fielded in many years.
So we lose our CHF and CHB?
So, when does this crap end. Young out too now.
Interchange from:
Jordan Boyd
Matthew Cottrell
Paddy Dow
Lachie Fogarty
George Hewett
Jesse Motlop
Matthew Owies
Lachie Plowman
In: Paddy Dow, Lachie Fogarty, George Hewett, Brodie Kemp, Jesse Motlop, Lachie Plowman
Out: Jack Martin (calf), Harry McKay (knee), Lewis Young (AFL Health and Safety Protocols)
Wonder how hard GWS will work for Cameron's last game. That can go 2 extreme ways.
70 points
Who'd wanna bet on this game? Could be a 10 goal game each way.
Cameron out of GWS could make their performance go either way.
We'll be fielding a side with the average height of about 5'3"......but are in form.
Just need to dominate the midfield.
Any more talls and it's season kaput.
We have not been a very durable team for a looooong time. ::)
Lewis Young out as well under HS protocols....fark me. Will be the shortest team we've fielded in many years.
Ok now we're farked!
Hard to juggle with the side, but could it be as simple as Kemp for Young, Motlop for Martin and one of Dow/Hewett to allow Cripps to play forward?
Difference between this year and last year is that we have a few football brains in the box who will at least try something inventive to overcome our deficiencies. Last year, 10 goals plus, this year, I have faith!!!
Kemp is playing as he is named on the ground.
Hewitt is named on the bench, so he must not be 100% right.
Bench from...
[2] Paddy Dow,
[20] Lachie Plowman,
[29] George Hewett,
[46] Matthew Cottrell,
[44] Matthew Owies,
[37] Jordan Boyd,
[3] Jesse Motlop,
[8] Lachie Fogarty
Weitering on Hogan.
Who plays on Himmelberg?
Kemp ?
Himmleberg 194 92kg
Kemp 193 88kg
Fair match up on paper
Himmleberg 194 92kg - 113 games
Kemp 193 88kg - 2 games
Fair match up on paper - not quite
Fixed it for you.
Ive got kemp and plowman as automatic ins given the outs.
I even thought about using Setterfield as a problem solver, and even playing marchbank off the bench as the sub.
Cripps should be given most minutes in forward line and bring Dow into the team he deserves a crack.
What I don't understand is that O'Brien got dropped for Adelaide. He was beaten for maybe 20 minutes, and they flicked him. Amazing. Does he want to play for us?
Reckon GWS will go with Riccardi who has been in good form in the twos, dont think much of Himmelberg either the GWS or Crows variety but playing three talls would force us to play Plowman and Kemp down back and disrupt how we operate.
Still think we can win but its going to be a tough game given our outs and I think Charlie Curnow will find plenty of company from GWS players everytime he goes for the ball so I think Jack, Cripps, and Kennedy will need to be in the goals too for us to win.
Be interesting to see if GWS go the full on tag with DeBeor and Ward on say Cripps/Walsh or Cripps/Cerra.....
Hewett on the bench is blasphemy!
Hewett on the bench is blasphemy!
Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy and Cerra are obviously starting this game.
Not to mention we may elect to go softly on George and give him the extra week off. They have the captains run to get through tomorrow.
Hewett on the bench is blasphemy!
George is named on the bench because he may not pass a fitness test.
Jesse Motlop will debut against GWS.
I wasn’t sure that he was ready but I was wrong … again!
Good luck Jesse; keep those tackles going and the goals will come.
Does one of Owies or Durdin come out then?
Does one of Owies or Durdin come out then?
Motlop is replacing Martin so we're going with a much smaller forward line - one that might better suit the wet conditions.
Does one of Owies or Durdin come out then?
You wouldn't think so.
Have to trust the coach, but I'm not confident.
From what I have observed at VFL level, young Motlop is pretty timid, he plays like he's a kid amongst men which is completely understandable, but things won't get easier for him at AFL level.
If he can keep his head up and find some space he has a few tricks, but he'll also burn some team-mates in the process as he is not yet team orientated, he has goal post eyeballs as do all young small forward players.
So Martin, McKay and Young out.
Ins at this stage are Motlop and Kemp.....so one more? Hard to see Hewett getting up for this so maybe Dow or Plowman the other IN?
So Martin, McKay and Young out.
Ins at this stage are Motlop and Kemp.....so one more? Hard to see Hewett getting up for this so maybe Dow or Plowman the other IN?
Do you have news on Hewett?
I'd heard he's a certainty excluding H&S protocols biting us again.
Nah nothing on Hewett but reckon in wet/slippery conditions up there he might be worth holding back for another week.
Have to trust the coach, but I'm not confident.
From what I have observed at VFL level, young Motlop is pretty timid, he plays like he's a kid amongst men which is completely understandable, but things won't get easier for him at AFL level.
If he can keep his head up and find some space he has a few tricks, but he'll also burn some team-mates in the process as he is not yet team orientated, he has goal post eyeballs as do all young small forward players.
He has only kicked six goals in the VFL, four in one game. I think that it may be that he's averaging four tackles a game and his midfield minutes that earned him a spot.
As I said previously, I didn't think he was ready but that's just from watching a couple of VFL games on TV. Vossy and O'Keefe clearly think otherwise.
I suspect that the extroverts are in the ascendency :)
I would expect Plowman to play CHB and Kemp to be FF. I thought Cottrell did well in the Martin role so I think he might retain his spot. If Hewitt doesn't come up then either Carrol will play, which I expect, or Dow will come in. This is a big challenge for Carlton. We have eleven players unavailable and considering Marchbank, Akuei and Mirkov aren't ready yet to play, we are starting to run out of players. I think our list is very good and there is no reason why we can't win, despite the emotional rubbish talked about this being Cameron's last game. This is a test to see whether we have improved from last year. I have believed for a long time that the problems at Carlton have been around attitude and whether we are willing to turn up and play whatever the circumstances. We failed this test against Gold Coast earlier this year.
Blue....no chance Jack Carroll gets dropped this week. He started in the centre square a few times last week after 1/4 time and suspect he'll do even more this week with both Cripps and Kennedy spending more time forward.
Indeed, a victory this weekend would be one for the ages. Considering all of these would be pretty much in the 22:
McGovern
McKay
Pittonet
Martin
Marchbank and/or McDonald (including Marchbank as he's played one game back in the VFL)
Stocker
Then throw in:
Cunningham
Honey
Ed Curnow
That's a lot of depth missing.
Does one of Owies or Durdin come out then?
Durdin won't according to Voss he's playing with Mots ;D
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialCarltonFC/
Leon Cameron farewell game. Giants by 50.
I think you might be right.
I’m really looking forward to our response under significant duress.
Who stands up?
Motlop is replacing Martin so we're going with a much smaller forward line - one that might better suit the wet conditions.
Pretty quick too (and rabid for a tackle).
I think you might be right.
I’m really looking forward to our response under significant duress.
Who stands up?
Put the Big Dog (Crippa) at FF and kick the effin thing to him and Charlie, I'm tipping a Carey like performance.
One of the youngest and most inexperienced sides I've seen for a while. Average games played would be very small, but that said, some of these blokes (eg Carroll) are playing like they've been there for longer than their games tally.
This will be a test of our players’ resilience and ability to push through adversity. It will also be a test of our coaching group’s ability to improvise and think on their feet.
It will also provide “Deadly” Motlop with an opportunity to show that he can walk the talk. Kemp also gets his chance to show that the glimpses we got at the end of last season are the real deal.
It’s also a big test for our leaders to maintain the players’ belief in themselves despite the absence of Harry and Young.
I’m disappointed that Stocker didn’t come up; it would have been great watching him give Toby a bit of curry.
I still think that GWS are soft and will not cope with our pressure and midfield dominance. Blues by 20!
Really looking forward to this with so many missing and how Voss and the team are prepared mentally.
Not expecting a win but really do not want to see games from some players that are known to be conditional.
I can’t see how we can win tbh.
For me maybe Cripps/Kennedy rotating at ff, but I’d rather Kennedy play the whole game at ff and keep Cripps floating forward where he’s done well this year.
Not sure how the defence will hold up either, Young will be missed.
I can’t see how we can win tbh.
For me maybe Cripps/Kennedy rotating at ff, but I’d rather Kennedy play the whole game at ff and keep Cripps floating forward where he’s done well this year.
Not sure how the defence will hold up either, Young will be missed.
Yep, i initially floated Kennedy to FF with Cripps resting there as he does now. IMO that would sort out our forwardline for a week at least.
However, the backline without Young makes things extra difficult.
I'd suggest we may see a resting ruck (TDK/SOJ) hanging out around CHB filling space.
Yep, i initially floated Kennedy to FF with Cripps resting there as he does now. IMO that would sort out our forwardline for a week at least.
However, the backline without Young makes things extra difficult.
I'd suggest we may see a resting ruck (TDK/SOJ) hanging out around CHB filling space.
Hewett has also spent time as a forward at the Swans, actually as a utility used all over the place, so he is a good size and may also be an option of a rotation.
But now that Kemp is in I suspect he's going to get a rotation, maybe him and SoJ flicking between F50 and D50.
What we may miss this week is the lead up marking across the wing and HBF that BigH is supreme at.
Whatever we do it’s imperative to lower our eyes and honor with good delivery to our small forwards, if we bomb we are cooked.
Obviously we will miss Harry but Young is the bigger loss. We can change the height of our own forward line but we can't change the height of the opposition's.
Naming of the sub will be critical
Hewett has also spent time as a forward at the Swans, actually as a utility used all over the place, so he is a good size and may also be an option of a rotation.
But now that Kemp is in I suspect he's going to get a rotation, maybe him and SoJ flicking between F50 and D50.
What we may miss this week is the lead up marking across the wing and HBF that BigH is supreme at.
Kennedy has a couple inches on Hewitt.
Kennedy has a great set of hands for his height
Kennedy is great on the lead.
Kennedy is arguably our best shot for goal.
I picked Kennedy because of his ability to play a traditional FF role and give us structure. (and Cripps as continued backup)
Hewitt is a completely different player who doesn't have the attributes of Kennedy (cripps or soj), but i'm sure he is capable of kicking a goal too.....we've already had Weitering and Docherty kick goals this year.
Kennedy has a couple inches on Hewitt.
Kennedy has a great set of hands for his height
Kennedy is great on the lead.
Kennedy is arguably our best shot for goal.
I picked Kennedy because of his ability to play a traditional FF role and give us structure. (and Cripps as continued backup)
Hewitt is a completely different player who doesn't have the attributes of Kennedy (cripps or soj), but i'm sure he is capable of kicking a goal too.....we've already had Weitering and Docherty kick goals this year.
I don’t want Cripps anchored up forward.
I want him playing midfield and pushing forward.
Like most non forwards he struggles being a key forward with a kpd opponent, play him to his strengths, as we have done successfully all season.
His goals come from the mismatch of a mid trying to spoil/mind/out mark him or from coming across the pack.
Charlie has to bring EVERYTHING to ground and keep presenting to keep Haynes busy and out of the way of Kennedy, Kemp, Cripps, SOS, TDK and the smalls.
I don’t want Cripps anchored up forward.
I want him playing midfield and pushing forward.
Like most non forwards he struggles being a key forward with a kpd opponent, play him to his strengths, as we have done successfully all season.
His goals come from the mismatch of a mid trying to spoil/mind/out mark him or from coming across the pack.
Charlie has to bring EVERYTHING to ground and keep presenting to keep Haynes busy and out of the way of Kennedy, Kemp, Cripps, SOS, TDK and the smalls.
Nah, cripps plays his usual role. Which is mid, but drifting forward.
Kennedy plays FF and if required, can drift into the midfield when Cripps comes forward.
Charlie has to be the link man up on the wing, working in with TDK and Jack to get the ball out of defense to a marking target.
Let Kennedy play 1-out from the square and give him space.
If they play a tall on him, let him beat him on the lead.
If they play a small on him, let him beat them in the air.
As long as we don't bomb it on his head when he has a tall on him, we'll be ok.
Maybe a last minute change..... Owies out ('flu') Dow in. That releases Kennedy to be permanent forward with Dow his replacement in the midfield rotations. Still have Durdin, Fisher and Motlop as the small forwards, Charlie as the main target and JSOS an Carroll as the support acts
I can't see that we will make wholesale positional changes to cover the loss of two key position players.
Plowman and Kemp come in to cover Young. Neither is a key defender but together they add a little more marking and spoiling ability to the defence.
Motlop is a straight swap for Martin.
Hewett adds to the midfield rotations so that all midfielders spend more time forward.
Silvagni plays as a key forward and pinch hits in the ruck as usual. De Koning rests in the forward line.
I can't see that we will make wholesale positional changes to cover the loss of two key position players.
Plowman and Kemp come in to cover Young. Neither is a key defender but together they add a little more marking and spoiling ability to the defence.
Motlop is a straight swap for Martin.
Hewett adds to the midfield rotations so that all midfielders spend more time forward.
Silvagni plays as a key forward and pinch hits in the ruck as usual. De Koning rests in the forward line.
Agree. It makes sense to minimise the impacts on the normal process.
Win tomorrow and we sit 3 games inside the 8.
Motlop is replacing Martin so we're going with a much smaller forward line - one that might better suit the wet conditions.
It's been bright & sunny here today and should be again tomorrow, the BOM have suggested possible light shower but I doubt it will be an issue.
Hogan out. Do we match up better with Riccardi?
Hogan out. Do we match up better with Riccardi?
I've never feared Hogan. It would be better if a ruckman were out.
Hogan out. Do we match up better with Riccardi?
Probably but Riccardi has played a couple of good games against us previously however I dont think the GWS KP Fowards are where the game will be won and lost and it will be all about the midfield.
Hogan out. Do we match up better with Riccardi?
As much as Hogan is no match winner they seem to play better with him in so I prefer him out.
One less tall we have to worry about.
Probably but Riccardi has played a couple of good games against us previously however I dont think the GWS KP Fowards are where the game will be won and lost and it will be all about the midfield.
I hope you're right EB; we've certainly stacked our 22 with midfielders.
It's hard to see any team matching Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Cerra and Hewett and then we have Fisher and Carroll spending time in the midfield. "Deadly" Motlop has been playing in the midfield in the VFL as well.
I think that our strategy will be about winning the centre bounces and stoppages, stifling GWS's forwards with a swarming defence and creating multiple scoring options through precise inside 50s and manic pressure inside 50.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the game unfolds ... and I'm quietly confident.
I hope you're right EB; we've certainly stacked our 22 with midfielders.
It's hard to see any team matching Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Cerra and Hewett and then we have Fisher and Carroll spending time in the midfield. "Deadly" Motlop has been playing in the midfield in the VFL as well.
I think that our strategy will be about winning the centre bounces and stoppages, stifling GWS's forwards with a swarming defence and creating multiple scoring options through precise inside 50s and manic pressure inside 50.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the game unfolds ... and I'm quietly confident.
I share the same premise as you that GWS are a softish team with only a few relishing a tough contest and I'd be making it real tough for players like Whitfield, Kelly, Cogs and quelling any idea of a Leon Cameron inspired victory very early in the game.
Still think we can win and win well, interesting seeing ex Giant Dylan Shiel perform tonight for Essendon, we dodged a bullet there and his coach when asked about Shiels lack of effort/poor attack on the ball was scathing by his silence. Much happier we saved our dollars for Cerra and Hewett....
I share the same premise as you that GWS are a softish team with only a few relishing a tough contest and I'd be making it real tough for players like Whitfield, Kelly, Cogs and quelling any idea of a Leon Cameron inspired victory very early in the game.
Still think we can win and win well, interesting seeing ex Giant Dylan Shiel perform tonight for Essendon, we dodged a bullet there and his coach when asked about Shiels lack of effort/poor attack on the ball was scathing by his silence. Much happier we saved our dollars for Cerra and Hewett....
I wasn't too upset when Shiel chose Essendon over us.
I listened to Phil Davis on the wireless today. He had a lot of good things to say about Leon Cameron but the impression I got was that Cameron pampered his players rather than challenging them to be their best. They are unbeatable when things are going their way, bullies when the opposition is weak, and invisible when the pressure is on.
We're certainly up against it with McKay and Young out, but GWS only has two wins this season and they have been pumped by ordinary teams.
Hogan out..... Weitering on Himmelberg, Kemp on Riccardi??
Hogan out..... Weitering on Himmelberg, Kemp on Riccardi??
Weather?
Cottrell confirmed as Sub.
Pretty small bench, LoB, Newman, Owies and Kennedy, I suspect Kennedy might start FF and SoJ FP with Motlop on the bench to start.