At this this game is a Friday night. Getting up to work the next day is a major problem, especially as it can take me a couple of hours to get to sleep in the first place.
Well that was fun to watch...not.
A winnable game down the crapper ☹️😵💫
11.3 to 8.14 after quarter time.
We are pretenders
We are pretenders
An apt description when 5th plays 10th and loses.
Centre clearance. No centre clearance no chance. Hate losing to these f#$@k#@ Pr($cks
May have been drinking there own bathwater aftet beating Freo ?
Centre clearance. No centre clearance no chance. Hate losing to these f#$@k#@ Pr($cks
When the ball hit the deck they took us to the cleaners, that's been our strength all year.
We need to get a good hard look at ourselves. We will finish in the top 8 but probably just making up the numbers. Even with players coming back. Players that don’t have match endurance. This was the win we needed and failed. Too many passengers again. How Charlie and Harry couldn’t embrace their superiority is just lazy and hoping for free kicks. Poor delivery to the forward players and a lack of grunt at clearances. We should have lost by more. This is a loss we didn’t need. Maybe we needed it to ground us. CRASH, Thump, boom, explosion and heaps of fire. Are we grounded after that game? If not, WAKE THE F@CK UP. We are not flag contenders yet. Not based on our last performance.
We are pretenders
Didn't expect us to be contenders yet but I expect that we give ourselves the best chance possible, not piss what chances we have down the bloody drain.
Worst game of the year. Was still winnable. Adam cerra rushed back in too soon. Was rubbish. Dow must be wondering what he's done wrong when cerra serves up that garbage.
The problem with today's game is that its all happened before. Membrey with 4, our talls missing regulation set shots all night and getting cut up on the outside all night.
Conceded 14 goals majority from turn overs. Positives are - experiments need to end this week.
I think we may have got more credit for the Freo win than was warranted....and I suspect we'll get more criticism than is warranted for this performance.
At the end of the round we'll probably sit on the ladder exactly where we should be.
An apt description when 5th plays 10th and loses.
I've been saying our injuries and related adaptations will take a toll. Even as players return, they take a game or two to find their touch. Hence 4/8 not guaranteed, and a slide quite likely. We've hit that mark IMO, and 4/7 is becoming less likely. Hope I'm wrong but if we do play finals we will scrape in. Our poor % may become the deciding factor.
Tonight we looked that half second off it most of the game. That's all it takes. Cerra, Honey, Kemp to lesser extent, not in touch. Poor buggers TDK and SOS were monstered. Our mids in general were slightly off giving them enough opportunities and they took them.
Our goalkicking was deplorable. Every goal took so much effort, as did most of the points. There's the game right there, against a side of 18 hard workers.
I think we may have got more credit for the Freo win than was warranted....and I suspect we'll get more criticism than is warranted for this performance.
At the end of the round we'll probably sit on the ladder exactly where we should be.
Lods the logician 😉
Footy is often about timing, we are light on for talls due to injury and we run into Stkilda with 4 good ins and especially their trump card ruck duo in Ryder and Marshall playing together and while TDK was brave and got his share of hitouts it didnt work with Jack tonight imo and we were hurt in the ruck and around the ground especially. Some good coaching from Ratten with Hill running loose early off half back and we helped them out by kicking poorly for goal when we had momentum our way. They had injuries in the last quarter which should have helped us bu it probably inspired them and it was one of those games where we couldnt do much right.
Cripps and Walsh won plenty of ball but didnt really impact the game and I even thought the reliable Hewett was off his game as well. Sinclair was probably BOG and appeared to be playing off half back so I'm not sure who his man was(Honey?) but he didnt spend much time with the Stkilda player who racked them up and started a lot of their attacks.
Membrey likes playing us but I didnt blame Plowman as some of his goals were not the result of poor play by Plowman and I felt for Kemp who was monstered down back but battled on.
LOB had a shocker and Cerra was very average but back after injury he can be forgiven for being under par...
Saints are rubbish imo which makes a loss hard to take but like I said its all about timing in footy and we probably copped the Saints with one of their better teams picked and we probably had one of our worst teams in terms of matchups.
I'd be expecting to rebound hard and flog WC next game hopefully with Weitering back....
Charlie was also very average tonight EB.
Missing goals is a nothing burger if quality is not consistent around the ground to defend goals.
We are doing well considering but need quality back asap. Some ground ball players are not AFL level.
Charlie was also very average tonight EB.
That he was Cookie, Harry was equally as laconic and uninspiring, Charlies kicking for goal was poor but his opponent Wilkie is very underrated and Charlie needed to work harder like a lot of our other players.
The Owies, Fisher, Durdin trifecta has been missing and while Motlop kicked three goals he doesnt give you that i5o pressure, chasing, tackling etc that creates extra goals and I think Owies has been a underrated player whose 1% ers have been badly missed.
Thought it was the worst defensive performance for the year. Poor kicking turnovers were very costly tonight and as has always been the case in recent years out of form small forwards managed to hit the scoreboard against us yet again.
Our tall forwards were drawn wide and too far out way too often resulting in harder shots on goal. Still goal kicking was crap but couldn’t get one on one deep entries to Charlie or Harry - Ratten had a win in coaches box imo as we should have been able to get those one on ones but just couldn’t. Harry had a massive height advantage in the last and still we couldn’t use it at all to our advantage.
Hewitt and Cerra were a lot less creative then normal and usual suspects that struggle when the pressure is on coughed it up resulting in goals.
Next week is another tough game imo and if we play like we did tonight we won’t get those points either.
Don’t see us as a genuine top 4 team and will still need to find 3 more wins to play finals so next week is a massive game we just can’t afford to lose as it gets tougher from there on.
We are pretenders
This should've been the result of our game last week.
In it, but unable to get there due to the injuries we had.
Last week should've been the result of this week.
Despite injuries, pulled together to squeeze out a decent win.
We lucked out last week.....this is more about where we are at with injuries etc.
Honey provides very little and looks way off the level at the moment and as much as I’m tired of watching Martin do sfa would swap them next week if he’s available.
Also thought it was Jacks worst game in a long time. Butchered the ball several times which is usually his strength.
Hard to find a real winner for us tonight on the field or in the coaches box.
Honey provides very little and looks way off the level at the moment and as much as I’m tired of watching Martin do sfa would swap them next week if he’s available.
Also thought it was Jacks worst game in a long time. Butchered the ball several times which is usually his strength.
Hard to find a real winner for us tonight on the field or in the coaches box.
Owies back in will make us better in terms of i50 pressure...Martin usually plays a quarter only but thats probably better than what Honey gave us tonight and he has a lot of work to do especially on his defensive work.
We need Pittonet back so Jack can go back to being a third tall forward FT.
We need Pittonet back so Jack can go back to being a third tall forward FT.
We need SoJ in D50, he'll be a 300% upgrade on Kemp who isn't a defenders butthole and never will be!
When the going gets tough, players are found wanting. Had too many passengers tonight. As inconsistent and spasmodic as Jack Martin has been, if he's fit for next week he has to come in for Honey, who basically only did one really good thing tonight. Weiters in for Kemp is a lock. Has to be. No question. Cerra was so way off tonight he can only improve. I hope. O'Brien was shocking tonight but he has credit in the bank. Newnes while not as bad was equally non-existent. Lesser lights have to play at heir optimum all the time so when we have a double-whammy ineffective forward line (Charlie (1.4 seriously?) & Harry were putrid) and non-clearance out of the middle it relieves the pressure. I can basically recall in my drunken stupor that we had at least 5 directly in front kickable goals squandered during the course of the game.
Charlie x 2
TDK
Hewett
Durdin.
Not talking about on the angle stuff. Directly in front and within the 50 arc. Just atrocious. I may have missed some, oh that's right Jack's left foot snap 20 metres out. So 6 goals gone begging
Positives were that we actually got through the game without injury (at this stage)
Motlop did enough to get another game.
Thought Cripps was outstanding.
Doc does not know the meaning of defeat.
What I wouldn't give for Ed Curnow to have been back for this game. Don't forget him folks. A lot would think that his time is over but until I see him play I'm not giving up on him.
We move on. Another chance to prove ourselves next week against a team we should comfortably get over.
We lost to the F#%$@n Aints FFS. A very average team IMO Horrendous result.
We need SoJ in D50, he'll be a 300% upgrade on Kemp who isn't a defenders butthole and never will be!
Without saying anything about Soj in defence, he's not really played there for us either. You're thinking of his old man and making a bit of a guess.
Whole side were off the boil from the first bounce. Field kicking was poor (especially Silvagni) and Cerra looked injured.
LOB and Newnes couldn’t cope with the higher pressure and we would be far better served by Dow - as I’ve said before the notion that Dow can’t play wing is nonsense.
Honey and Durdin simply weren’t effective against the run of Hill and Sinclair and they didn’t work hard enough to get to the fall of the contest.
Harry and Charlie’s contests and kicking - not good.
Weitering, McGovern, Pittonet and Cunningham will all help.
Hopefully in our development we learn from games like today.
This team will get a flag but along the way crap like today happens as we develop further. The season has been about developing new habits but some of the d habits take time to erase.
Well that was fun to watch...not.
Indeed. If we could have made any other mistakes, I cannot imagine it. The umpires even weren't that bad.
We were thrashed in the centre square, which made it hard to win. We didn't squash either Hill or Sinclair, who are rubbish when the heat is on. Our kicking for goal was deplorable, and that is being kind.
I think we may have got more credit for the Freo win than was warranted....and I suspect we'll get more criticism than is warranted for this performance.
At the end of the round we'll probably sit on the ladder exactly where we should be.
The old its never as good as it seems and its never as bad as it seems?
One word - turnovers. Kicks into the centre square to an outnumbered team mate. Absolutely killed us.
I've been saying our injuries and related adaptations will take a toll. Even as players return, they take a game or two to find their touch. Hence 4/8 not guaranteed, and a slide quite likely. We've hit that mark IMO, and 4/7 is becoming less likely. Hope I'm wrong but if we do play finals we will scrape in. Our poor % may become the deciding factor.
Tonight we looked that half second off it most of the game. That's all it takes. Cerra, Honey, Kemp to lesser extent, not in touch. Poor buggers TDK and SOS were monstered. Our mids in general were slightly off giving them enough opportunities and they took them.
Our goalkicking was deplorable. Every goal took so much effort, as did most of the points. There's the game right there, against a side of 18 hard workers.
Bang on LN. I thought Kemp tried his guts out and wasn't that bad, as Thry has pointed however out Cerra and Honey were utter rubbish. Our goalkicking was as bad as I have seen, they were unforgivable. But you cannot taking anything away from the StK workrate, Jones, Sinclair, Gresham, Ryder, Steele, Membrey to name a few would have slept well last night.
As I said in the in game, their ground ball work was exemplary.
We also need to choose the right time concede ground when trying to link up on the outside. They picked us off so many time at the centre bounce where we virtually carried it half way to goal for them. Other teams will pounce on that now.
Our % is woeful and will cost us, mark my words and our position in the 8 is under threat make no mistake. With some tough games coming up, we may get some back but I reckon it will be later than what we think. Weiter is no guarantee this week, said he pulled up sore after training and the full movement isn't quite there, that would suggest weeks to me but I'm no doctor. Pitto and Gov are miles off also so there are more weeks yet of battling away with an undermanned squad.
Ill say again, loved Motlops games, strong little bugger and looks to be finding his place.
Durdin is in a slump and needs to find his mojo, seems scared to have a shot and his first instinct is to dish off. That needs to be reversed.
Honey is not AFL standard Im afraid, loped around looking lost most of the time, where is this supposed blistering speed? Looked like he couldn't catch a cold last night, very disappointing and Dow must look at that and think really?
One word - turnovers. Kicks into the centre square to an outnumbered team mate. Absolutely killed us.
We love putting team mates under pressure don't we? Silly little hand balls or kicks to a bloke in a worse position, no idea why we do that so regularly. That one last night where Cerra kicked pack to Newman with Ryder lurking was atrocious.
Have lost 3 of our last 5.
The old its never as good as it seems and its never as bad as it seems?
Pretty much.
It was a bit concerning last week to hear the commentary around the Freo game.
The question that was asked in just about every panel show was... Can the Blues win it....and the answers were usually...Yes they can!
While I think, and it's conventional wisdom, that you take the opportunity to play finals and win flags whenever you can I reckon we're probably still about 12 months off really challenging.
Playing finals, finishing top 4, would be great for the experience, and once you're there you never know.
But there's a part of me that feels that in the long run, the slow more sustainable build to that position is where we're heading.
Last night was a bit of a reality check.
Inaccuracy, the effect of injuries, being just that 5% off all take a toll.
We were the better side for large parts of the game, and on reflection there was lot of opportunities that went begging just because of a few a few crucial mistakes.
We lost it, as much as they won it.
It wasn't as bad as it might appear.
I'd be confident we'd have their measure with just a few of our injury inclusions.
Just on the defence.
We still haven't had a 100 points kicked against us by any side this year...and a fair bit of their score came late.
Defending wasn't really the problem last night....it was more the attacking from defence that is usually a strong part of our game.
And a pretty shambolic and inaccurate forward line with a few players well down.
Our scoring has dried up since Weitering went out. 6 of our first 10 games we scored over 100, haven't got near it since.
Not once - when we took a mark on the boundary a decent way out - did I see any movement from our players to try to create a better opportunity for shot on goal. And besides that amazing kick by H that just skimmed thru, the rest went out. At times the space in f50 in front of goals was clear - bullet pass to someone on the lead would’ve been the much better option but not once got a look in.
Putrid night at the footy. Once again we seem to start the game 10mins after the fact! Really frustrating.
Cerra was so underdone it was painful to watch.
Just on Dow - he did this thing at quarter or half time, kicking at goals for $250 for a charity - haven’t some on here said he’s on the outs and will leave end of year? Strange to have him doing that in that case.
Perspective.
The growth of this group, under huge pressure (injuries/quality opponents), is terrific... and surpassed, thus far, most of our expectations.
The Aints didn't win that game. We gave it to them through poor finishing. If we'd kicked straight putting scoreboard pressure on them, they'd have folded and we'd have grown in confidence - they got us on the back foot, and we kept ourselves there (through inaccuracy). We kept them in the game and will learn more about opponents who bring strong and persistent pressure - credit to the Aints for that, they responded.
We'll learn a lot from that game... especially composure/finishing.
I don't think that individualising will serve too much of a healthy purpose re last night, it was team (though the inclusion of experienced and talented blokes over the coming weeks will sure help). For us, it's still about above the shoulders as a team and getting our system right. It's a terrific system.
I'd much rather our future than the Aints.
Not the end of the world.
Plus, and I'm sure the coaches emphasized this, there were a lot of distractions for a young side - media pumping up our tyres, Carlton Respects - a brilliant and important initiative, plus a hurting Aints, improved by strong inclusions, bringing real heat.
I mentioned before the game that Membrey loves us... he didn't disappoint.
The Weagles game couldn't come at a better time. Space for the players to spend quality time together interstate with fewer distractions - a great chance to return and sharpen focus.
We have two gun forwards, so what do we keep doing? Kick it on their heads.
We've been doing this at Carlton for years, packed forward line, kick it to a pack and hope for the crumbers.
Bloody, clear the forward line out and kick it to advantage to a leading player.
Harry looks so disinterested, never really launches for a ball, just seems to be playing for a free kick.
Bring Fev in to show them how to lead (and kick straight)
@ Baggers Yes perspective indeed and our future is bright no doubt. But I think after last night, the talk of us making finals and winning the premiership will be tempered somewhat from all and sundry. As we get to the business end of the season, the real contenders will emerge and be clear to all. Not saying StK are contenders, far from it. Even with our depleted, if it wasn't for atrocious kicking for goal and sub par workrate, we would have beaten them. But we didn't and some home truths will brought to them this week. To be top 4 and regarded as a contender, we would have to just about win every game against the teams lower than us and two out of Melb, Bris, Geel. Not gonna happen..this year.
Sorry Baggers but that is complete disrespect to StKilda. They controlled most of the game, withstood our surge and finished us off.
The loss we had to have?
After getting our tyres pumped up last week, back to reality this week.
A good lesson that if you are 5% off and dont take your chances when they present, you will lose.
Learn from the Freo game and learn from the Saints game. Regardless of the opposition and the strength of your relative teams, its all down to pressure and converting.
From here we will get players back and it will make our life easier.
This was a danger game with the Saints smashed in the media and when you saw who they brought in you didn't need to be too smart to figure out it was going to be tough night and as Krud said if you are off by a little bit then you will get knocked over. A few of our players might be drinking their own bathwater too and couldn't be bothered with manning up or the hard stuff.One passage of play included Stkilda switching play and walking the ball through half back, the wing then down forward, zero pressure applied and zero manning up.
Saad did a lot of rebounding but caught out being too far away from Higgins too often and Sinclair never had a man all night.All easy fixes if you are switched on and motivated but we just looked like we wanted the other bloke doing the work while we watched waiting for the easy kick.
This was a danger game with the Saints smashed in the media and when you saw who they brought in you didn't need to be too smart to figure out it was going to be tough night and as Krud said if you are off by a little bit then you will get knocked over. A few of our players might be drinking their own bathwater too and couldn't be bothered with manning up or the hard stuff.One passage of play included Stkilda switching play and walking the ball through half back, the wing then down forward, zero pressure applied and zero manning up.
Saad did a lot of rebounding but caught out being too far away from Higgins too often and Sinclair never had a man all night.All easy fixes if you are switched on and motivated but we just looked like we wanted the other bloke doing the work while we watched waiting for the easy kick.
Bit of ball watching and jogging going on also - esp Fisher, Cerra and Honey, need to be much better,
Also what I refer to the “Liam Jones” effect from Plowman - some very good pieces of play, offset by some absolute howlers.
Newnes may be a great clubman but his decision making and ability to get quick disposal is way off AFL. He’s a VFL stalwart at best.
@ Baggers Yes perspective indeed and our future is bright no doubt. But I think after last night, the talk of us making finals and winning the premiership will be tempered somewhat from all and sundry. As we get to the business end of the season, the real contenders will emerge and be clear to all. Not saying StK are contenders, far from it. Even with our depleted, if it wasn't for atrocious kicking for goal and sub par workrate, we would have beaten them. But we didn't and some home truths will brought to them this week. To be top 4 and regarded as a contender, we would have to just about win every game against the teams lower than us and two out of Melb, Bris, Geel. Not gonna happen..this year.
Yep. We're still young at winning and with that comes too many fluctuations. This is the Vossmeister's first year at the helm, along with the assistants... everyone is still learning, a year of learning and discovering. I see us as a bottom 8 side this year (5-8) which is reflected in our %.
Totally agree re talk of top 4, was great but fanciful. Persistence and concentration for 4 quarters AND game to game consistency is still a focus.
Sorry Baggers but that is complete disrespect to StKilda. They controlled most of the game, withstood our surge and finished us off.
So many missed goals is subtly demoralising... little reward for effort. And it keeps your opposition in the game... buoys them. I mean no respect for the Aints, they brought their best. But I am extremely sure that had we converted properly it would have buoyed us and likely folded them - scoreboard pressure. The important thing is that we learn from this. Efficiency is the thing that top 4 sides do, consistently.
16.8.104
14.19.103
Who was the better team?
16.8.104
14.19.103
Who was the better team?
That's not 'who was the better team,' that's 'who won?' 33 shots on goal to 24... guess who would be ruing a lost opportunity and guess who'd be pleased they made the most of their opportunities.
So many missed goals is subtly demoralising... little reward for effort. And it keeps your opposition in the game... buoys them. I mean no respect for the Aints, they brought their best. But I am extremely sure that had we converted properly it would have buoyed us and likely folded them - scoreboard pressure. The important thing is that we learn from this. Efficiency is the thing that top 4 sides do, consistently.
16.8.104
14.19.103
Who was the better team?
We kicked their butt for 3 qtrs of that game. Lost by 35pts in the 3rd qtr.
Anyway, I digress. I can see your point
Honey provides very little and looks way off the level at the moment and as much as I’m tired of watching Martin do sfa would swap them next week if he’s available.
Also thought it was Jacks worst game in a long time. Butchered the ball several times which is usually his strength.
Hard to find a real winner for us tonight on the field or in the coaches box.
Honey looks like he will be a player just not this year with his injury issues, time out of the game re playing and training. He'll be better next year.
Have lost 3 of our last 5.
All such narrow squeaks too. Pies and Tigers were fought furiously to get back into the game. This one we pissed down the drain.
Wasn't expecting flags this year, just a further year adding to our development. To be near equal to the top of the ladder at some point was way beyond out expectations. That tends to raise the expectations of us supporters too before time. I look at this year like the Bulldogs 2015 season. Good year, 6th place, out first week, premiers the next year. Or similar like Hawthorn in 2007.
Our scoring has dried up since Weitering went out. 6 of our first 10 games we scored over 100, haven't got near it since.
Generally scoring, on average, has been getting lower ad the season has gone on.
Generally scoring, on average, has been getting lower ad the season has gone on.
Due to the weather and the condition of the ground, sure.
Non-factors at Marvel
It's just down to the evolution of tactics as clubs get their head around playing under the current rules.
A few positives
Witnessed the negative impact playing underdone boys
Back to back best and worst performances is the perfect lens to see our progress
Players will all be disappointed in what they produced
Watched our running strengths disappear overnight
A Coleman medal means stuff all
If it's not all-in, it's nothing
Injuries and return from injury will define our season
Injuries have exposed the list to the ultimate assessment test
Something must be cooking with Dow
Team is experiencing a lot of change, forced change, and adaptation
If we learn from those things and find some injury management that works, we'll challenge any side. Next year, the year after..
FWIW our injury woes aren't improving. A full strength WC at home might just offer up another lesson. With or without Weiters.
Generally scoring, on average, has been getting lower ad the season has gone on.
Carlton average score
Rd1-Rd10: 93.2
Rd11-Rd16: 76
Weitering went down in the first quarter of rd11.
Carlton average score
Rd1-Rd10: 93.2
Rd11-Rd16: 76
Weitering went down in the first quarter of rd11.
Ill have to look overall as I think they are all lower generally. It is one thing I noticed a few weeks ago watching a game. We pumped Freo kicking 81 last week.
The Bumbers just did us a favour knocking off the Ducks ...
Bit of ball watching and jogging going on also - esp Fisher, Cerra and Honey, need to be much better,
Also what I refer to the “Liam Jones” effect from Plowman - some very good pieces of play, offset by some absolute howlers.
Newnes may be a great clubman but his decision making and ability to get quick disposal is way off AFL. He’s a VFL stalwart at best.
Honey aint AFL standard.
Honey aint AFL standard.
Agree that he’s way off the pace at the moment, but I do think he’ll be a player
Agree that he’s way off the pace at the moment, but I do think he’ll be a player
Honey wasn't the problem last night - a little bit out of touch - being injured for 6-8 weeks and missing some of pre season wouldnt help a young player. He has the power and tools to be a player with continuity... just stay injury free young man.
Honey wasn't the problem last night - a little bit out of touch - being injured for 6-8 weeks and missing some of pre season wouldnt help a young player. He has the power and tools to be a player with continuity... just stay injury free young man.
Someone played on Sinclair who was BOG imho, was that Honey?
Someone played on Sinclair who was BOG imho, was that Honey?
Not sure who it was - I dont think we tagged anyone in their backline - we just played the swarm game. Sinclair had a half out of the box I don't think anyone could have done anything about it other than putting a hard tag.
Not sure who it was - I dont think we tagged anyone in their backline - we just played the swarm game. Sinclair had a half out of the box I don't think anyone could have done anything about it other than putting a hard tag.
18 man defence means up and down running and also negating an opponent. For a man with supposed blistering speed, he showed nothing with disappoining. All I am saying is he doesn't look up to it for me at AFL level. I'm not suggesting for a minute Honey was THE problem on Friday night, many were down. I read somewhere testerday Cripps Walsh and Cerra had 4 tackles between them, Steele, Jones and Crouch had 24. Here endeth the lesson.
our game plan ,there is no run and carry .no spread just seem either to bomb it long into our crowded fwd line or my new fav (bomb) into wing where the opposition set up with quick ball movement into there open forward line .This was happening against collingwood . For us to be top 4 need to change game plan ,first thing recruit quick players especially from defence
our game plan ,there is no run and carry .no spread just seem either to bomb it long into our crowded fwd line or my new fav (bomb) into wing where the opposition set up with quick ball movement into there open forward line .This was happening against collingwood . For us to be top 4 need to change game plan ,first thing recruit quick players especially from defence
You must be watching different games to me, when we are on, we move the ball and are as quick as anyone.
You must be watching different games to me, when we are on, we move the ball and are as quick as anyone.
Indeed. But when we aren't on, we seem to forget about spreading and moving the ball quickly. We have to make sure we are on.
Indeed. But when we aren't on, we seem to forget about spreading and moving the ball quickly. We have to make sure we are on.
Yes my friend, thats poor workrate not lack of leg or ball speed.
Honey wasn't the problem last night - a little bit out of touch - being injured for 6-8 weeks and missing some of pre season wouldnt help a young player. He has the power and tools to be a player with continuity... just stay injury free young man.
Spot on. The goods are there with Honey. There are no individual scapegoats for that disappointing effort against the Aints. Where was the ruthless tackle pressure of the previous game; the work rate; structures? Missing. Undisciplined, which resulted in panicky stuff.
Our best will beat anyone, but 1% less and we're in trouble. Still a way to go to learn consistency and composure.
I agree Baggers.
The other element was that the Saints never really gave up their pressure - it almost looked like we relaxed a couple couple of times when we were in front, allowing the Saints to score again and stay in the game.
Have we changed our game a bit to have more players in defense when the ball is there to compensate for injured personnel? If so, that shift would affect play up the ground when we get the ball?
Fatigue causes a loss of intensity and that can make players appear blasé, but it's impossible to play eight consecutive quarters of berserk football like we did starting with Freo a week earlier, and opponents know that.
FWIW, many specialist media commentators have been saying as much about Freo's game plan, they assert it's unsustainable.
We need to find a way to curtail the opposition run on and stay in games when we aren't ready to go berserk!
It's even worse when we waste opportunities. Fans blame the missed shots as the reason for the loss, but I'd assert while the misses do not help it can also be the unending ongoing high intensity that is actually causing those missed opportunities.
We might have looked relaxed, but it's more likely we were fatigued and as a result sluggish.
need to add speed to our defence ,eg tigers,saints and freo and ferals (coll) atm we have saad and doc who are both 26 /27,28 ,where are our young coming defenders stock not quick weitering kpd. Our recruiters need to find quick players who can carry and run another 2 saad would be handy (younger of course)
18 man defence means up and down running and also negating an opponent. For a man with supposed blistering speed, he showed nothing with disappoining. All I am saying is he doesn't look up to it for me at AFL level. I'm not suggesting for a minute Honey was THE problem on Friday night, many were down. I read somewhere testerday Cripps Walsh and Cerra had 4 tackles between them, Steele, Jones and Crouch had 24. Here endeth the lesson.
In the case of Cripps and Walsh, it's hard to tackle when you have the ball.
Both teams had 61 tackles and Hewett, Kennedy and Docherty had 19 tackles between them; that wasn't where the game was lost.
Cerra was rusty and really should have tried to get into the game by laying a few tackles.
Bad kicking is bad football. We continually put teamates under pressure, by playing uncomposed footy. That was to simply get rid of it, rather than play the percentages. Result, we turned it over a lot, and I would estimate that the Saints generated 80% of their scoring from turnovers be it forced by pressure, or unforced and just loose kicking into dangerous areas.
We played as poor a game as we have all season, and the result was that we kicked ourselves out of it, more than Saint Kilda beat us. If we play that match 10 times over, I doubt we would lose it again. Its a false negative. St. Kilda played about as well as they could have hoped for, but in reality, they relied on us giving them back the ball a lot.
Unfortunately, we accomodated.
Cerra wasnt just rusty, he wasnt ready and shouldnt have played. Was a bonafide witches hat.
Bad kicking is bad football. We continually put teamates under pressure, by playing uncomposed footy. That was to simply get rid of it, rather than play the percentages. Result, we turned it over a lot, and I would estimate that the Saints generated 80% of their scoring from turnovers be it forced by pressure, or unforced and just loose kicking into dangerous areas.
We played as poor a game as we have all season, and the result was that we kicked ourselves out of it, more than Saint Kilda beat us. If we play that match 10 times over, I doubt we would lose it again. Its a false negative. St. Kilda played about as well as they could have hoped for, but in reality, they relied on us giving them back the ball a lot.
Unfortunately, we accomodated.
Cerra wasnt just rusty, he wasnt ready and shouldnt have played. Was a bonafide witches hat.
Yep Cerra looked out of it and was spectating a few times when he should have been running to make position or chasing.....Where I reckon Stkilda won the game would have been winning the stoppages via their ruckman and it looked like they won more uncontested ball because they worked harder. We didnt work hard enough and are at our worst when we dont man up and allow the easy overlap, once piece of play was horrendous as I said in a previous post where Stkilda training drill style sent the ball from the backline in slow motion back across the ground and up the wing with zero pressure.
I think a big factor was our poor goal kicking and thus our failure to inflict scoreboard pressure on them. This would have no doubt taken a lot of the wind out of the Saints sails but instead we kept handing them lifelines ( to maintain the nautical theme).
I agree Baggers.
The other element was that the Saints never really gave up their pressure - it almost looked like we relaxed a couple couple of times when we were in front, allowing the Saints to score again and stay in the game.
Have we changed our game a bit to have more players in defense when the ball is there to compensate for injured personnel? If so, that shift would affect play up the ground when we get the ball?
Yep. A hangover from years gone by? We used to do that often... in front? Foot off the pedal.
Gee, there has been some absolute rubbish written on Carlton fan pages and forums since the loss. The trolls are out in force. A lot of them are obviously not Carlton folk. I'm not talking about here. We seem to be a fairly stable group (that may bite us in the bum long term as we need some fresh blood). But the big point of difference is that even when we're a bit critical or disagree we put forward arguments to support our point of view. Sorry for the rant but what set me off was some goose on a Facebook site reckoned we should trade Hewett because he's not damaging. Moral of the story is... never let a mug upset you.😉😁
Gee, there has been some absolute rubbish written on Carlton fan pages and forums since the loss. The trolls are out in force. A lot of them are obviously not Carlton folk. I'm not talking about here. We seem to be a fairly stable group (that may bite us in the bum long term as we need some fresh blood). But the big point of difference is that even when we're a bit critical or disagree we put forward arguments to support our point of view. Sorry for the rant but what set me off was some goose on a Facebook site reckoned we should trade Hewett because he's not damaging. Moral of the story is... never let a mug upset you.😉😁
I stopped using Carlton sites on Facebook. Some are just complete and utter f idiots with no clue whatsoever. Much more intelligence here. Even when I disagree with people you know all of the regulars on here have a damn good idea what they are talking about.
Gee, there has been some absolute rubbish written on Carlton fan pages and forums since the loss. The trolls are out in force. A lot of them are obviously not Carlton folk. I'm not talking about here. We seem to be a fairly stable group (that may bite us in the bum long term as we need some fresh blood). But the big point of difference is that even when we're a bit critical or disagree we put forward arguments to support our point of view. Sorry for the rant but what set me off was some goose on a Facebook site reckoned we should trade Hewett because he's not damaging. Moral of the story is... never let a mug upset you.😉😁
Here's a tip for free, stay away from Facebook footy pages. They are utter puss, every last one of them.
Here's a tip for free, stay away from Facebook footy pages. They are utter puss, every last one of them.
You're absolutely right.
The reason I look at them is they often pick up on a breaking news story in the media, like an injury...sometimes long before we get the confirmation on the Official site.
Obviously haven't watched the replay but how often was Cerra in the middle? Looked to me at the ground he was playing wing.
Obviously haven't watched the replay but how often was Cerra in the middle? Looked to me at the ground he was playing wing.
Why though, ................. probably because he wasn't 100% right to go! ;)
I think Cerra's selection last week is the first rookie mistake I think I can identify from the Voss crew this season, let's hope they learn!
Cerra's only young still, he probably still has ambitions beyond his ability, that usually extends to players thinking they can limp through a match and still have an impact on the outcome.
I think we missed Owies work rate terribly, and that caused some of the others who have been good this season like Durdin, LoB and Fisher to be overloaded and fall short of expectations. Fans underestimate the impact of the 24x7 stuff they don't take any notice of, it's unglamorous and doesn't make the highlight reels, and fans overestimate the impact of the spectacular stuff that happens for 1 second in a 2hr match because it is replayed endlessly!
For example, and I mentioned this after his first game as well, Motlop's highlights do not make up for the rest of the time he is basically spectating. He'd have to do 10x as much spectacular stuff just to break even!
Why though, ................. probably because he wasn't 100% right to go! ;)
I think Cerra's selection last week is the first rookie mistake I think I can identify from the Voss crew this season, let's hope they learn!
Cerra's only young still, he probably still has ambitions beyond his ability, that usually extends to players thinking they can limp through a match and still have an impact on the outcome.
I think we missed Owies work rate terribly, and that caused some of the others who have been good this season like Durdin, LoB and Fisher to be overloaded and fall short of expectations. Fans underestimate the impact of the 24x7 stuff they don't take any notice of, it's unglamorous and doesn't make the highlight reels, and fans overestimate the impact of the spectacular stuff that happens for 1 second in a 2hr match because it is replayed endlessly!
For example, and I mentioned this after his first game as well, Motlop's highlights do not make up for the rest of the time he is basically spectating. He'd have to do 10x as much spectacular stuff just to break even!
I had Motlop as our one winner on the day.
He ran hard, and pressured hard too. Kicked 3.1. Surprised to only see 1 tackle registered to his name, but I guess it only counts a completed tackle on the stats sheet, because I saw him lay 3 tackles in on sequence with little reward given the Saints were able to get out of trouble because
he was one of the lone hands pressuring multiple opponents.
FWIW, Shaun Higgins, and Dan Butler had very similar stats and both ended up with 2 goals 1 each and only registered a tackle each, but they also were quite menacing with their pressure.
Anyway, I could pick a handful of players who made pivotal issues on the day.
Why though, ................. probably because he wasn't 100% right to go! ;)
I think Cerra's selection last week is the first rookie mistake I think I can identify from the Voss crew this season, let's hope they learn!
Cerra's only young still, he probably still has ambitions beyond his ability, that usually extends to players thinking they can limp through a match and still have an impact on the outcome.
I think we missed Owies work rate terribly, and that caused some of the others who have been good this season like Durdin, LoB and Fisher to be overloaded and fall short of expectations. Fans underestimate the impact of the 24x7 stuff they don't take any notice of, it's unglamorous and doesn't make the highlight reels, and fans overestimate the impact of the spectacular stuff that happens for 1 second in a 2hr match because it is replayed endlessly!
For example, and I mentioned this after his first game as well, Motlop's highlights do not make up for the rest of the time he is basically spectating. He'd have to do 10x as much spectacular stuff just to break even!
Good call on Owies, without him as part of the trinity with Durdin and Fisher we dont function as well down forward when he is missing IMO. He isnt a big possie winner but he provides plenty of pressure keeping the ball inside50 and being a leadup type forward he seems to drag players away from our main forwards and we look less congested.
Motlop is more of a crumber who can kick the freaky goal and he was good vs the Saints but I'll be glad to see Owies back in he team and Motlop can come off the bench, he reminds me a bit of Troy Bond.
Good call on Owies, without him part as part of the trinity with Durdin and Fisher we dont function as well down forward when he his missing IMO. He isnt a big possie winner but he provides plenty of pressure keeping the ball inside50 and being a leadup type forward he seems to drag players away from our main forwards and we look less congested.
Motlop is more of a crumber who can kick the freaky goal and he was good vs the Saints but I'll be glad to see Owies back in he team and Motlop can come off the bench, he reminds me a bit of Troy Bond.
Hopefully Jesse doesnt suffer the same fate as Troy did in 95.
I had Motlop as our one winner on the day.
He ran hard, and pressured hard too. Kicked 3.1. Surprised to only see 1 tackle registered to his name, but I guess it only counts a completed tackle on the stats sheet, because I saw him lay 3 tackles in on sequence with little reward given the Saints were able to get out of trouble because he was one of the lone hands pressuring multiple opponents.
FWIW, Shaun Higgins, and Dan Butler had very similar stats and both ended up with 2 goals 1 each and only registered a tackle each, but they also were quite menacing with their pressure.
Anyway, I could pick a handful of players who made pivotal issues on the day.
I thought Young did the job on King who kicked a couple of junk goals only and was another winner for us.
See my thoughts on Motlop in my other post, no doubting his talent he just needs more games and education for when he doesnt have the ball and when his opponents do, I thought Stkilda ran the ball out of defense a bit too easy which was a group issue rather than Motlop specifically but as I suggested I think Owies gives us a point of difference in that area.
I thought Young did the job on King who kicked a couple of junk goals only and was another winner for us.
See my thoughts on Motlop in my other post, no doubting his talent he just needs more games and education for when he doesnt have the ball and when his opponents do, I thought Stkilda ran the ball out of defense a bit too easy which was a group issue rather than Motlop specifically but as I suggested I think Owies gives us a point of difference in that area.
Honey can sit in on the same classes.
See my thoughts on Motlop in my other post, no doubting his talent he just needs more games and education for when he doesnt have the ball and when his opponents do,
Yes, most young players are the same, fans don't see it because they watch them when the ball is around or when they are in camera shot which is always around the footy.
What we missed from Owies was what happens when we don't have the footy and it's not in the immediate zone. Being basketball background he's always moving to take space away from the opposition or to create space and provide an option to one of our ball carriers even if he is on the wrong side of the ground.
Motlop, Honey, Carroll and others tend to stop and watch what is happening then head off when they have decided where the footy is going, Owies and more experienced heads are pre-emptive, they think about what might happen next and immediately work to alter the outcome in our favour, they do not just do work in their own favour.
That is why fans see players like Owies, LoB or Durdin crumbing in the goal square one minute, and defending on the last line 60s later, but the fans don't put 2 and 2 together, instead they'll bitch and moan if Owies or Durdin are beaten in a contest on the last line!
Last weekend we saw Plowman and Newman being caught out more than once against multiple opponents, that wasn't happening when Owies, Durdin, LoB and Fisher were all working together seamlessly. It's wasn't that Plowman or Newman had a bad day or bad moment, it was because the players around them were missing instead of making up the numbers. It was one of the reasons I noticed Cerra struggling, he wasn't able to keep up and opponents took the opportunity to run off him.
Yes, most young players are the same, fans don't see it because they watch them when the ball is around or when they are in camera shot which is always around the footy.
What we missed from Owies was what happens when we don't have the footy and it's not in the immediate zone. Being basketball background he's always moving to take space away from the opposition or to create space and provide an option to one of our ball carriers even if he is on the wrong side of the ground.
Motlop, Honey, Carroll and others tend to stop and watch what is happening then head off when they have decided where the footy is going, Owies and more experienced heads are pre-emptive, they think about what might happen next and immediately work to alter the outcome in our favour, they do not just do work in their own favour.
That is why fans see players like Owies or Durdin crumbing in the goal square one minute, and defending on the last line 60s later, but the fans don't put 2 and 2 together, instead they'll bitch and moan if Owies or Durdin are beaten in a contest on the last line!
Ditto Plowman
Ditto Plowman
Sorry got me before I finished typing, 100% agree!
Obviously haven't watched the replay but how often was Cerra in the middle? Looked to me at the ground he was playing wing.
Wondered the same thing. Why wasn't he in the heat? Ditto Fisher, who's been ripping it up on ball.
We beat Dockers - best win of the season. Saints beat us, their best win of the season. Dockers beat Saints.
Trying to work all this out - come up with we stuffed up badly last week.
We beat Dockers - best win of the season. Saints beat us, their best win of the season. Dockers beat Saints.
Trying to work all this out - come up with we stuffed up badly last week.
....or we got lucky the week before.
We beat Dockers - best win of the season. Saints beat us, their best win of the season. Dockers beat Saints.
Trying to work all this out - come up with we stuffed up badly last week.
Our 9 goals 17 tells the story well enough against St. Kilda.
Our 9 goals 17 tells the story well enough against St. Kilda.
100%, 3 Leos. And it's no more complicated than that.
....or we got lucky the week before.
That was not luck. That was a team absolutely switched on, focussed, organised and ruthless.
Once we find a way to bring that each and every week, we will be serious flag contenders.
That was not luck. That was a team absolutely switched on, focussed, organised and ruthless.
Once we find a way to bring that each and every week, we will be serious flag contenders.
Yes, but we still got lucky.
Freo played into our hands. We were very light on down back and they failed to exploit that.
Yes, but we still got lucky.
Freo played into our hands. We were very light on down back and they failed to exploit that.
Weren't allowed to ?
Weren't allowed to ?
They carried Fyfe who was clearly underdone in his first game back, and I'm not sure Freo's manic game style does it's slow moving giants any favours.
We aren't talking about guys who are as mobile as BigH or Charlie, we are very lucky, even TDK, SoJ, Cripps and Young have their talls well covered for mobility.
It's easy to take what we see from BigH or Charlie for granted, but they are exceptional and we should not forget it! I suspect the only KPD capable of going with Charlie, when Charlie is on, might be TDK's brother SDK! Would it be unreasonable for Carlton to use some of it's KPP currency to reunite the brothers at seasons end?