Carlton Supporters Club

"Interestingly, Pacific queerness is not new. Fa'afafine (Samoan) or fakaleiti (Tongan), translated as 'like a lady', are individuals who identify themselves as having a third gender or non-binary role in Samoan or Tongan diaspora.

This group often thrive, are highly visible and are accepted in Pacific society."

This is the same line of argumentation used by slavery apologists - slavery wasn't that bad because it was really indentured servitude, the slave owners were very nice to the slaves and always greeted them with a smile and a warm hello, invited them into the house to eat etc. All of which is well and good, and better than the alternative, but it has nothing to do with the fact that by any recent standard, the idea of one human owning another, and the owned human being the literal property of the owner is completely wrong.

I couldnt see Adam Saad wearing that jumper or Matt Kennedy, Saad would have every right if forced to wear it to ask for a muslim pride jumper to affirm the leagues attitude to players of the muslim faith and how far do you go in terms of satisfying everyone with a cause to push and determining its importance.
Liam Jones and Deni Varnhagen might want a no vaccine pride jumper since they are part of a marginalized, minority......how about just wearing the normal jumper and treating everyone decently and using some common sense.

I love the way those who insist that the Bible is the word of God tie themselves in knots trying to explain away the  way the Bible concentrates on the ethical keeping of slaves rather than declaring slavery is evil. One way of explaining it away would be to recognise that much of the social commentary is necessarily a reflection of the society that existed a couple of Millenia ago. Slavery was commonplace back then and simply banning it wouldn’t have been pragmatic. But that would undermine the notion of an unbending moral code imposed by God. But surely God would not be worried about pragmatism: S/he would just have declared slavery to be evil.

So there’s now an attempt to reinterpret slavery as a positive thing in the Bible. We’re told that the Bible wasn’t dealing with slaves - it was dealing with “bondservants”, those who became slaves voluntarily for a set period to work off a debt to the new Master. ...................................................

Because Jones and gays are in such a similar position? Jones leaned in to a conspiracy theory spread on social media and was unwilling to help protect his fellow players and the competition that was trying to find a way to continue in a pandemic. Maybe gays have just been falling into a conspiracy theory spread online, like a social contagion, which has led them to choose to become gay? Is that the idea? Because from where I sit gays were born that way rather than making a choice. Jones made a stupid choice and he doesn’t get to play the victim. Gays are just who they are and face discrimination for that simple fact. Apples and oranges.

I wouldn't claim great knowledge in this area, but that type of slavery (bond servant) is one type, but there are others, e.g chattel slaves. There are various rules and stipulations for Israelites and non Israelitles, wives, offspring etc. that are probably beyond the scope of a football forum.

Apart from the quotes by Ian Roberts, that ABC article sounds like a bit of PR happy talk. Everybody's very respectful of each other, which is clearly better than starting a war of words, exchanging hostilities etc., but there's nothing in that article that suggests a solution, for a jersey that supposedly wasn't just about LGBT people, but all marginalized groups. The players may not have bad intentions, but consequences matter a whole lot more IMO.

It's not the Pasifika players' intentions that are at fault Paul.  It's Manly's failure to see that the "pride jersey" could be problematic for a significant part of its playing group, particularly when one of their own, in Roberts, may have brought them along.  Consulting their playing group and, hopefully, raising their awareness of  LGBTQ+ issues should have been the first step.  Now, what was an important initiative has, at best, raised awareness of impact of Christianity on Indigenous peoples.  At worst, it's further marginalised LGBTQ+ and Pasifika folk.  

I should add that Muslim proselytisers have had a similarly deleterious impact on Melanesian communities.

Because Jones and gays are in such a similar position? Jones leaned in to a conspiracy theory spread on social media and was unwilling to help protect his fellow players and the competition that was trying to find a way to continue in a pandemic. Maybe gays have just been falling into a conspiracy theory spread online, like a social contagion, which has led them to choose to become gay? Is that the idea? Because from where I sit gays were born that way rather than making a choice. Jones made a stupid choice and he doesn’t get to play the victim. Gays are just who they are and face discrimination for that simple fact. Apples and oranges.