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Re: General Discussions

Reply #1575 –
Quote from: Lods on
When I went to school they told me that Saturn had 10 moons
I found out today I'd been lied to.
Saturn has at least 145 moons.
Don't trust the Science >:(
Yep, full steam ahead to 451°F!

Anyway, I'm off home to have some Eggy Weggs and Steaky Wakes!
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1576 –
Don't trust the Science

Science changes when more is known...eg Pluto, round(ish) earth

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1577 –
All knowledge is provisional.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1578 –
Quote from: PaulP on
All knowledge is provisional.
What is knowledge if nothing more than knowing very well that we do not know!

The language as always is a problem, science is not forever yet it is often misrepresented with language that hints at permanence.
The Force Awakens!
 

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1579 –
Quote from: PaulP on
All knowledge is provisional.

As a teacher over the years I've collected quite a few resources including text-books.
My thinking was that..."This is a good text. I'll use it with my own kids and grandkids."
I taught across the curriculum so I had books from a range of subjects.
Some have stood the test of time.
I could teach to the subject using most of the Maths texts despite some changes to the way that subject is now taught.
But the Science texts are pretty much redundant.
Even though a lot of the material is still accurate things like planetary info, periodic tables etc have undergone serious revision.
It would confuse the reader who wouldn't be sure what was right and what was inaccurate
History/Social Studies texts from the sixties and seventies have at their centre a UK/Empire bias.
Indigenous culture gets a page or two...if that.
Atlas and Geography texts have the same issues as Science. Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia no longer exist, and despite Putin's 'valiant' attempts the Soviet Union is now several independent countries. There are many new countries in Africa and Asia.
Yep,...knowledge is only what's known and accepted at the time, and subject to change at a later date.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1580 –
Quote from: Lods on
As a teacher over the years I've collected quite a few resources including text-books.
My thinking was that..."This is a good text. I'll use it with my own kids and grandkids."
I taught across the curriculum so I had books from a range of subjects.
Some have stood the test of time.
I could teach to the subject using most of the Maths texts despite some changes to the way that subject is now taught.
But the Science texts are pretty much redundant.
Even though a lot of the material is still accurate things like planetary info, periodic tables etc have undergone serious revision.
It would confuse the reader who wouldn't be sure what was right and what was inaccurate
History/Social Studies texts from the sixties and seventies have at their centre a UK/Empire bias.
Indigenous culture gets a page or two...if that.
Atlas and Geography texts have the same issues as Science. Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia no longer exist and despite Putin's valiant attempts the Soviet Union is now several independent countries. There are many new countries in Africa and Asia.
Yep,...knowledge is only what's known and accepted at the time, and subject to change at a later date.

This is why experts with current knowledge in the field are so valuable. This is why reliable sources are so valuable.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1581 –
Quote from: PaulP on
This is why experts with current knowledge in the field are so valuable. This is why reliable sources are so valuable.

Certainly,
I guess the point though is that knowledge is fluid.
The experts need to keep abreast of their topic because what they now know will be replaced eventually by new ideas and thinking.
Today's texts are tomorrow's bird cage lining.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1582 –
Quote from: Lods on
I could teach to the subject using most of the Maths texts despite some changes to the way that subject is now taught.
But the Science texts are pretty much redundant.
Sort of but not really.

The measures have changed, but much of the fundamentals remain.

The Saturn example is a prime example of massively increased sensitivity to detecting and measuring light, the language could really have been so much better, perhaps 10 moons we can see, or 10 moons we can detect would have been more accurate.

How many moons does Earth have, what is a moon?
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1583 –
Quote from: LP on
Sort of but not really.

The measures have changed, but much of the fundamentals remain.

The Saturn example is a prime example of massively increased sensitivity to detecting and measuring light, the language could really have been so much better, perhaps 10 moons we can see, or 10 moons we can detect would have been more accurate.

How many moons does Earth have?

Eight billion and one... if everyone bends over.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1584 –
Lods, there is something intuitive about some of the old ways and old knowledge.

When I was studying Astrophysics I found turn of the century books invaluable, that is 1900s not 2000s, they described the universe in the language and knowledge base of the time, and in some cases these simpler descriptions greatly assisted understanding even if they were obsolete.

Last week I was trying to explain some logarithmic and derivative concepts to associates, the irrelevance of minutia and the importance of scale. Modern PCs and Calcs are not really of much help, they just deliver ever expanding number of digits which as we know from science and engineering will be largely irrelevant. So bizarrely, I brought a slide rule into work and they immediately understood that orders of magnitude relative to fractional errors. There is something very intuitive about the old ways.

I read a while back that there is new education research that suggests students will get better outcomes through a return to books, pens and paper, I'm not surprised.

Knowledge that is obsolete isn't necessarily worthless.
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1585 –
Quote from: Lods on
When I went to school they told me that Saturn had 10 moons
I found out today I'd been lied to.
Saturn has at least 145 moons.
Don't trust the Science >:(

Not lied too.

I doubt those texts said "10 and only 10 moons with zero possibility of finding any others.".....yet that is the readers digest version.

Science certainly can be trusted, you just need to realise that we are getting better at furthering our understanding of it. It is very rare were science does a 180 on its beliefs. You will never find that Saturn doesn't have any moons at all.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1586 –
Quote from: kruddler on
Not lied too.

I doubt those texts said "10 and only 10 moons with zero possibility of finding any others.".....yet that is the readers digest version.

Science certainly can be trusted, you just need to realise that we are getting better at furthering our understanding of it. It is very rare were science does a 180 on its beliefs. You will never find that Saturn doesn't have any moons at all.
It's what the teacher told me.
If I'd said 12 on  my test I would have got it wrong :(
Maybe it's science teachers that can't be trusted.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1587 –
Quote from: Lods on
It's what the teacher told me.
If I'd said 12 on  my test I would have got it wrong

Depends on how the question was written to how right the answer is.

A good teacher would right....How many moons have been discovered orbiting Saturn? 10 would be right, 12 would be wrong.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1588 –
I'm not sure I still have any science texts from the time, I'll have a look.
(A big blue book called "Understanding Science" was the 'go to' text.)
But that information was usually presented in table form.

Distance from the sun.
Length of days
Satellites etc
I'm not sure whether then 'Known satellite' qualification was evident.

It's not that important. I was just having a bit of fun with it and making the point that what the general view is now with topics of Science, History and Geography is subject to change as knowledge increases.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1589 –
Quote from: Lods on
I'm not sure I still have any science texts from the time, I'll have a look.
But that information was usually presented in table form.

Distance from the sun.
Length of days
Satellites etc
I'm not sure whether then 'Known satellite' qualification was evident.

It's not that important I was just having a bit of fun with it and making the point that what the general view is now with topics of Science, History and Geography is subject to change as knowledge increases.

I feel your pain though.

I used to spend a lot of time at my grandparents when i was a primary school kid. Wasn't much for a young kid to do there, but they had a nice collection of encyclopedias which i use to thumb through. A favourite topic of mine at the time was the solar system and very much how many moons a planet had was a piece of information you would find for each planet.

Couple years later, my parents got some encyclopedias and used to do the same, except my 'memory' mustn't have been very good because it all seemed different. Took me a while to work out it was......about the time newer books came out with more updated information.

So i learned pretty early that the science was ever evolving and the 'answers' at any given time was a snapshot in time based on the information available.