A 29 man squad has been named for our game against Melbourne and it includes eight new players (ignoring Harry McKay's NAB appearance last year).
1 – Jack Silvagni, 3 – Marc Murphy, 4 – Bryce Gibbs, 6 – Kade Simpson, 7 – Dylan Buckley, 8 – Matthew Kreuzer, 10 – Harry McKay, 11 – Sam Kerridge, 13 – Jed Lamb, 15 – Sam Docherty, 16 – Billie Smedts, 17 – Sam Rowe, 20 – Lachie Plowman, 22 – Caleb Marchbank, 23 – Jacob Weitering, 24 – Rhys Palmer, 25 – Zac Fisher, 27 – Dennis Armfield, 28 – David Cuningham, 29 – Cameron Polson, 30 – Charlie Curnow, 33 – Jarrod Pickett, 35 – Edward Curnow, 37 – Daniel Gorringe, 39 – Dale Thomas, 41 – Levi Casboult, 42 – Kym Lebois, 43 – Simon White, 46 – Matthew Wright
Ii looks like a pretty strong team.
I hope all the young guys get the opportunity to play.
In all honesty, I'd love to see all the newbies get a gig along with the young blokes from last year.
The three players I'd leave out might come from - Armfield, White, Thomas, Buckley and Lamb. Having said this, would be good to see these blokes running around too.
Nevertheless, ah, footy (for us) is back soon. Bring it on!
In all honesty, I'd love to see all the newbies get a gig along with the young blokes from last year.
The three players I'd leave out might come from - Armfield, White, Thomas, Buckley and Lamb. Having said this, would be good to see this blokes running around too.
Nevertheless, ah, footy (for us) is back soon. Bring it on!
Pretty much the same guys I was thinking.
It reads like it will be a potent forward line.
Gone are the days of not knowing where we will score from to having a number of avenues.
Will make watching footy almost enjoyable again. ;)
Pretty much the same guys I was thinking.
I sure hope they aren't thinking of rucking McKay!
8:30am game time in Bali, Bintang and Blues for breakfast at Nirvana! :) Unfortunately I think Nirvana is owned by a CheatsFC man, I'd better check if Diesel and Sticks old joint is open in Poppy Lane!
No Liam Jones?
No Liam Jones?
You almost sound disappointed?
You should get yourself to the doctors quick! You're clearly delirious!
Great to see last years young guys named. Polson surprised me a little. Guess he's really tracking well. That's very pleasing.
I too hope we don't ruck young Harry. Can't see it myself, likely to be Gorringe helping K I'd suggest.
Can't wait to hear from those at the game how the new guys go. My thanks in advance ;D
Go Blues.
You almost sound disappointed?
You should get yourself to the doctors quick! You're clearly delirious!
I'm disappointed.
I was hoping he'd evolve and come good.
Sadly he might be our best key forward on the list at the moment.
I hope that changes quickly and is either no longer best or no longer sadly the best.
What's the issue with Harry having a run in the ruck?
He has been in the system for 12 months, put on muscle and, no doubt, learned how to look after himself. Most of the top ruckmen (apart from those who started as rookies) debuted in the ruck at 19 years of age. Harry may still be a touch on the light side but I'd back him in if he gets a run.
The real surprise is leBois for a rookie to get a mention the kid must have impressed.
Looking forward to the game. Demons will be a fitting test.
Hope we come away with some positives.
Go Baggers
No Liam Jones?
Probably already pencilled in at FF for the Richmond game. ;)
The real surprise is leBois for a rookie to get a mention the kid must have impressed.
Looking forward to the game. Demons will be a fitting test.
Hope we come away with some positives.
Go Baggers
We've certainly named a strong side - even without Crippa and SPS!
Really don't see why the Dees are rated so highly. on paper we look the goods!
Reckon Lebois could cause some headaches on the wkend, and in 2017. He'll be a promoted rookie at some point and play senior footy.
We've certainly named a strong side - even without Crippa and SPS!
Really don't see why the Dees are rated so highly. on paper we look the goods!
Dees are about 2-3 years ahead of us in terms of list development. We've managed to tick 1 of 3 boxes in that our defence looks set to roll for a while, but we need to add to our midfield and forward line. Melbourne are set to emerge, they've got a good young backline with the McDonald brothers et al, Hogan and Weiderman give them some good young forward targets, their midfield is exciting and they have the best ruckman in the game.
On paper we have some promise, some young guys that we're hoping come good. Melbourne now have some proven performers and are about to explode.
The biggest hurdle for the Dees, as with all cellar dwellers, is overcoming years of poor performance and mediocrity. It becomes a mind set and a habit that is hard to break.
Dees are about 2-3 years ahead of us in terms of list development. We've managed to tick 1 of 3 boxes in that our defence looks set to roll for a while, but we need to add to our midfield and forward line. Melbourne are set to emerge, they've got a good young backline with the McDonald brothers et al, Hogan and Weiderman give them some good young forward targets, their midfield is exciting and they have the best ruckman in the game.
On paper we have some promise, some young guys that we're hoping come good. Melbourne now have some proven performers and are about to explode.
My thoughts on the Dees
1. Back line - a real weakness for the Dees (and certainly compared to ours) - TMc only 194cm, Oscar 196cm (could either compete in the air with Levi or even Harry Mc at 203cm); Hibberd? meh; Contrast Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank, Docherty, Bryne....
2. Followers - Gawn - sure, gun. Jones, Tyson, Lewis (is this stint his retirement fund), Petracca (knee notwithstanding, nothing on Cripps), Viney (plenty of talk but no better than Ed Curnow imo). Match Gibbs, Murph, Curnow, Cripps and Kreuzer....our best mids easily match theirs...imo.
3. Forwards - Hogan (the jury is still out), Watts? Meh. Weiderman, no further advanced than Charlie or SOJ? Prefer our mix of the Bolt, Harry, Charlie, SOJ and Weitering any day of the week!
How are they 2 or 3 years ahead? That's just a motherhood rehash of some journo's carp.....
Fox's best 22 for the Dees:
MELBOURNE
B: Michael Hibberd, Tom McDonald, Neville Jetta
HB: Christian Salem, Oscar McDonald, Bernie Vince
C: Dom Tyson, Jordan Lewis, Billy Stretch
HF: Christian Petracca, Jack Watts, Jeff Garlett
F: Dean Kent, Jesse Hogan, Cam Pederson
FOLL: Max Gawn, Nathan Jones, Jack Viney
I/C: Angus Brayshaw, Clayton Oliver, Tom Bugg, Jayden Hunt
EMG: Jake Melksham, James Harmes, Ben Kennedy
OTHERS: Jack Trengove, Sam Frost, Mitch Hannan, Colin Garland, Sam Weideman, Aaron Vandenberg, Jay Kennedy-Harris, Liam Hulett, Alex Neal-Bullen, Jake Spencer, Mitch King, Dion Johnstone, Pat McKenna, Josh Wagner,
Dees are about 2-3 years ahead of us in terms of list development. We've managed to tick 1 of 3 boxes in that our defence looks set to roll for a while, but we need to add to our midfield and forward line. Melbourne are set to emerge, they've got a good young backline with the McDonald brothers et al, Hogan and Weiderman give them some good young forward targets, their midfield is exciting and they have the best ruckman in the game.
On paper we have some promise, some young guys that we're hoping come good. Melbourne now have some proven performers and are about to explode.
Dees backline is their biggest issue. And they probably lack that bit of extra pace class around the wings / flanks.
But they've had a 12 year rebuild so they should be ahead of someone. And definitely not getting spanked by us like they did late last year.
Dees are about 2-3 years ahead of us in terms of list development. We've managed to tick 1 of 3 boxes in that our defence looks set to roll for a while, but we need to add to our midfield and forward line. Melbourne are set to emerge, they've got a good young backline with the McDonald brothers et al, Hogan and Weiderman give them some good young forward targets, their midfield is exciting and they have the best ruckman in the game.
On paper we have some promise, some young guys that we're hoping come good. Melbourne now have some proven performers and are about to explode.
I can't really see that NM, and I didn't see any evidence of it in round 28. I think they've had 2-3 more years to work on their list but they're yet to get to where they should be.
Even with Cripps out, our midfield is stronger and has greater depth than we had in round 28 and that should enable us to neutralise Gawn's influence.
I reckon we have a better defence but the question of who is going to kick our goals is still unanswered. Hopefully we'll have more idea on Saturday evening.
LeBois kicked the most brilliant goal imaginable. Left foot banana across his body on the boundary. Nice way to get your first kick for the club.
Down 13-6.
LeBois kicked the most brilliant goal imaginable. Left foot banana across his body on the boundary. Nice way to get your first kick for the club.
Down 13-6.
The Melb outside runners are smashing us, we can't get control of the footy.
Simmo just starts like he never switched off, we'd be three goals down if not for him.
Our young guys plus Simpson showing intensity. Murphy and Gibbs are barely getting out of first gear.
Very rusty start for sure , Dee's much more fluid than us ATM
Wow....Blues are still miles off the pace ::)
One thing still stands out that has not been improved at all from last year.
After 5 months of all sorts of training and game plan etc, our coaches have still not worked out a system or methodology whereby whoever is kicking in after a behind has been scored by the opposition, can/will kick the ball to our advantage.
effort seems to be way off, gibbs hasn't woken up yet.
interesting to see if they wake up a little 2nd quarter
Down 34-8 qtr time. Melbourne look alot more fluent with last week's game under their belt, not that it matters it one of these games. We're still struggling to get fluent movement into the 50.
Levi's kicking technique did look infinitely better.
A nice day to work on their suntans and blow out a few cobwebs.
Pre-season is now more meaningless than it's ever been...and it was pretty meaningless before.
This will bear no similarity to how we play against Richmond in round 1.
Wow....Blues are still miles off the pace ::)
It's just a practice game. Focus on the young players who are actually having a crack.
LeBois kicked the most brilliant goal imaginable. Left foot banana across his body on the boundary. Nice way to get your first kick for the club.
Down 13-6.
What a great first impression for young LeBois.
Well done son. The Eddie mark2 comparisons are valid.
Carlton never took pre-season seriously because it won flags and played finals for decades on end.
Now we are rubbish we need to show something to fans in pre-season just to get a few supporters.
Another five minutes of this sh1t! and I'll demanding that the bar puts the cricket on!
Harry McKay doesn't mind apply a bit of pressure.
Great tackling big H.
Carlton never took pre-season seriously because it won flags and played finals for decades on end.
Now we are rubbish we need to show something to fans in pre-season just to get a few supporters.
Another five minutes of this sh1t! and I'll demanding that the bar puts the cricket on!
Keep drinking booze then it won't matter. Works for me....lol.
Brayshaw, Weiderman, Hogan, goal. They've got some fwd talent....
They're reading the wind alot better than us shooting for goal.
Keep drinking booze then it won't matter. Works for me....lol.
That's the trouble being OS, expat bars are the only place I can find a broadcast! The AFL have even Geo-blocked their own App, and all the various radio websites have taken their feeds down!
Thankfully hackers are ahead of them!
Keep drinking booze then it won't matter. Works for me....lol.
A bit early to sink the boot in.
I will give them 5 more years. I think 20 years in the abyss is long enough ::)
We've only got Cripps out and look like a bit of a train wreck atm ????
Yes its only preseason but even in wanting too see the kids and our tall fwds......... aint gonna see jack if you dont have the ball !
Nice grab by Rowe hope he goes for his marks more than just the defensive pouch now he has a bit more support down back
Levi Levi, one day he might just surprise us lol
They are in week two and are four years more developed than us.... Expect a flogging.
Miracles will happen, just not this year.
More LeBois smarts. Like it.
They are getting a lot more of the ball than us.
Nice grab by Rowe hope he goes for his marks more than just the defensive pouch now he has a bit more support down back
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Liked Rowe mark, then play on with confidence
They are getting a lot more of the ball than us.
Watching here it feels like the Dees mids and runners have 2 of every 3 disposals.
No matter how Meat gets a goal, it's always a relief!
Levi nails one.
Two worst positions on an AFL ground would be FF in the women's comp or in the Carlton men's team. Goals are such hard work.
Watching here it feels like the Dees mids and runners have 2 of every 3 disposals.
Watching it here feel exactly the same..lol.
Still no authoritive direction to goal being shown today, early days,
Going in with same plan as last yr. Using F all interchange against a team using all available.
Phew, bar has split the monitors to half cricket half footy, a welcome distraction!
Phew, bar has split the monitors to half cricket half footy, a welcome distraction!
What part of the world are you in LP?
It's just a practice game. Focus on the young players who are actually having a crack.
Dees or Blues young players MBB? Can't help but be disappointed with what we are seeing so far, even though it's a Praccy game ;) ;)
What part of the world are you in LP?
Indonesia, coverage is a bit laggy, feel some of the posts here happen before I see the event. SD quality, not too bad.
Cricket coverage is bizarre, Indian and Brit commentators, they really hate Aussies.
Our fwds havnt been able to show their wares at all. Slow ball delivery has them swamped by melbs defense. We look awfully slight in build in comprison too. Cant stck our tackles against bigger bodies.
Indonesia
Nice, have a month coming up in Asia always fun finding a bar to watch the game
Trying to find some positives in that first half is really hard work.
LeBois goal........ that's about it.
Ball use is still terrible, our forward line is still a shambles, smashed through the midfield and on the spread. They are doing what they like up forward and we probably should be further behind.
Please god don't let me have to watch another year of this......
Trying to find some positives in that first half is really hard work.
LeBois goal........ that's about it.
Ball use is still terrible, our forward line is still a shambles, smashed through the midfield and on the spread. They are doing what they like up forward and we probably should be further behind.
Please god don't let me have to watch another year of this......
More about intensity. Melbourne are running twice as hard. Means they find space forward as well as get back to block us up when we go forward.
Nice, have a month coming up in Asia always fun finding a bar to watch the game
Most sports bars up here offer coverage, but later in the day you get soccer, soccer and more soccer mixed in with the odd rugby game. Yesterday some bloke from Adelaide came in and demanded the basketball, everybody started leaving the bar so the swapped it back to cricket and soccer.
If I got to an open bar early this morning I could have watched the AFLW, it was on at several venues starting at breakfast time.
Going in with same plan as last yr. Using F all interchange against a team using all available.
I heard we've not used bench at all. Bolts turned the heat up like that last year. No doubt some method in the manoeuvre. Rowe looked sun-roasted basted with perspiration at half time.
So far the young guys have looked comfortable. Harry's tackling and work below the knees is impressive. LeBois just looks dangerous-cant put my finger on why???
Our big guys going OK - MK, Rowe, and Levi. All mobile with some 2nd efforts.
Structure at times looks off the mark.
Go Blues
Most sports bars up here offer coverage, but later in the day you get soccer, soccer and more soccer mixed in with the odd rugby game. Yesterday some bloke from Adelaide came in and demanded the basketball, everybody started leaving the bar so the swapped it back to cricket and soccer.
If I got to an open bar early this morning I could have watched the AFLW, it was on at several venues starting at breakfast time.
Yeah that's always the way trying to get the AFL on when u in a different culture , sniffed out bars in Patong & HK where we get a run , but hard thing is if we have an early game first beer is 10.30 am
Our boys were squashed in a closet for the break..... They'll be happy to get back out there so they can breath. ;D
Our boys were squashed in a closet for the break..... They'll be happy to get back out there so they can breath. ;D
Bonding lol
Interesting match up in D's goal square. Murphy v Gawn :-[
Of course they're going to score
Gee looking a grade apart ATM.
Interesting match up in D's goal square. Murphy v Gawn :-[
Of course they're going to score
Regardless of the game status, stuff like that should not be happening.
On a positive note I'm really liking Casboult's efforts around the ground.
Ever seen a cat play with a mouse?
We're unfortunately not exactly working hard.
The game plan is looking good :-\
We're unfortunately not exactly working hard.
Yep. We saw it at the start when Gibbs allowed Viney all the time in the world to kick the first goal of the game.
On a positive note I'm really liking Casboult's efforts around the ground.
Thought the same Lods , pity the kicking thing hasn't capped his game
The game plan is looking good :-\
We can develop it further in Wycheproof next round!
Couple of nice passages between the Blues brothers .
Nice goal BT Cunningham
This is rubbish. WTF is a positive out of this game.
This is worse than last yr. I didnt care about the result but at least we saw structure last yr. We could see a game plan.
We're seeing a whole lot of nothing this far.
And speedy youngsters??? Where??????
So similar to start of last year, hope it isn't a going to continue. Still lack of scoring , no defined goal kickers , not even a hint of opportunity we are creating
We can develop it further in Wycheproof next round!
Nothings developed in Wycheproof in the last 150 years ::)
Couple of nice passages between the Blues brothers .
Nice goal BT Cunningham
Melb to start pulling the pin on players any moment.
Nothings developed in Wycheproof in the last 150 years ::)
Sunburn, dust storms, depression?
Is BB still smiling like a Chessere Cat?
Sunburn, dust storms, depression?
Sorry, I forgot about those ;)
The feed has dropped out, any updates?
Melbourne are treating this almost like an true AFL game, we're treating it like a practice hitout.
loved Picketts effort just then. 3 chases and attempted tackles.
The feed has dropped out, any updates?
82-48
3/4 time
We have kicked the last 3 helps with the scoreboard, but more from luck than effort. Defensively we are getting caught out time & time again, haven't developed there from last year
How much would it cost us to sack Daisy ?
He's actually gone backwards!
Pickett trending, has he done something worth looking at?
Pickett trending, has he done something worth looking at?
Yes, made a bigger impact in 5 min than the rest of the side for the whole game. Got 2 goals from two kicks.
Weiters starting up forward this qtr
Intensity and run picked up late in 3rd.
Pickett playing smart. He'll be a player if he can stay fit.
Sign of things to come Weitering forward again, we could use the direction up forward
I gather from the lack of activity I'm not missing anything, cues in the rack?
Weitering!
Sign of things to come Weitering forward again, we could use the direction up forward
And just got a goal.
Not sounding good for Goringe , ankle injury
Smedts doing some nice things
Levi working and marking well
How much would it cost us to sack Daisy ?
He's actually gone backwards!
I don't have any game vision - just going off the AFL website - he's currently 6th in the Fantasy points. In a badly performing side, he looks like he's far from our worst.
96 - 55
One defense not so flash today
What's with this handball at all costs game plan. I know it's only a praccy match but my pre season optimism has already wavered significantly.
At this point, we can't seem to bridge that 40 point deficit.
Perhaps Miss Maven has a point about the Dees.
It's the first practise game, but I did expect a spark, very little to take from this game. Defensively caught out , no obvious forward structure , no real young players making there Mark, so dissappointing all round
No vision, but from the web scores it looks like we've put the queue in the rack! :o
It's the first practise game, but I did expect a spark, very little to take from this game. Defensively caught out , no obvious forward structure , no real young players making there Mark, so dissappointing all round
no run means no forward structure. Caught out at both ends because we're only running half as hard as they are.
Not sure we ever took the cue out LP !
no run means no forward structure. Caught out at both ends because we're only running half as hard as they are.
Precisely
Actually, looking at the stats you'd be disappointed as a Dees fan, by the figures they should be 100+ pts up and cruising. They've had 20+ more I50 with a squad full of tall timber!
Stats have Gibbs our top ranked player, but I hardly recall seeing him get a clear possession.
Good bit of play Zac and Cunningham
110-55 and D's not done
Sad part is apart from Cripps , this is our best we have
The biggest blow out so far in the JLT series.
Smith 2 short of a hundred, good luck to him, change the channel. :)
Got it!
Wrong thread ?
9 goals ? Let's hope Bolts is just lulling the rest of the comp into a false sense of security.
9 goals ? Let's hope Bolts is just lulling the rest of the comp into a false sense of security.
He succeeded!
As far as defence goes we can't play Rowe, Plowman, Marchbank, Weitering. Someone will have to go forward. Levi looks like he'll share ruck duties with Phillips out so should be no issue playing Weitering and McKay up forward.
Kids still look the future.... Fisher, Cunners, Marchbank, Pickett, Charlie C etc.
Same old load of nuthin' from Thomas, Gorringe, White etc. Time to move on and give others a go.
9 goals ? Let's hope Bolts is just lulling the rest of the comp into a false sense of security.
We only averaged 10 goals last year. We didn't really add to our forwardline. Not sure what you were expecting.
From what I got to see the kids did things, odds bits and bobs, which is what you expect from kids.
The concern for me comes from the seniors, the presence of any significant game plan or leadership looks non-existent.
Disinterest seems to be the common thread, maybe we are in a heavy training load at the moment and JLT just isn't of interest to the older bodies.
Kids still look the future.... Fisher, Cunners, Marchbank, Pickett, Charlie C etc.
Same old load of nuthin' from Thomas, Gorringe, White etc. Time to move on and give others a go.
Yes, right there.
Fisher looked alright, runs straight and kicks long and direct.
We only averaged 10 goals last year. We didn't really add to our forwardline. Not sure what you were expecting.
The 9 goals in my previous post refers to the losing margin, not the number of goals we kicked, but I understand they are the same number.
I had hoped for a closely fought contest, played with heart and intensity, by 18 players for 4 q.
I had hoped for a closely fought contest, played with heart and intensity, by 18 players for 4 q.
You won't see that in the pre-season. ;)
Stats have Gibbs our top ranked player, but I hardly recall seeing him get a clear possession.
Same..hardly noticed him.
You won't see that in the pre-season. ;)
Perhaps not, but most of the other games played thus far have been much closer than what we had just now. I don't know if we're genuinely crap, or too young ,or if Bolts is just tinkering and has zero interest in the pre season comp, but a 9 goal thumping looks bad IMO.
Perhaps not, but most of the other games played thus far have been much closer than what we had just now. I don't know if we're genuinely crap, or too young ,or if Bolts is just tinkering and has zero interest in the pre season comp, but a 9 goal thumping looks bad IMO.
Don't get caught up with practice games. Doesn't always tell you much about round 1.
You won't see that in the pre-season. ;)
Disagree.
We actually saw that last year.
We saw it a few times when we won the thing.
What you won't see is a true prediction of regular season form from the pre-season.
(I hope that continues to be true, otherwise its a long season)
Don't get caught up with practice games. Doesn't always tell you much about round 1.
I know - given the last 4 seasons, I always fear the worst.
I think you should see coherence and structure even if intensity isn't obviously there
If you look at the Dees today there was clear structure, you knew where the goals would come from, who would deliver the ball, win the clearances and how they would shut us down.
I didn't know what Carlton was doing, not that I saw more than about half a game, but we looked confused. I'm hoping we are holding our cards close and the rest can be disinterest, but it worries me because if we want to rise the Dees are going to be a good benchmark. We never looked like testing the water today.
Unless they're starting extra early in getting our hopes down and setting themselves up for another massive tilt at the draft.
But that's probably too far fetched.
I know - given the last 4 seasons, I always fear the worst.
Game is based around running. No run, no structure. Dees played like it was a real game, we turned up for a hitout. Look crap every time when that happens. I was shocked half way through the last qtr when I looked at the scoreboard and we were "only" 34 pts behind. Not expecting alot this year but today tell us not much. Basically just looked at how the younger one's played
I hope you're right Jimbo.
I was shocked half way through the last qtr when I looked at the scoreboard and we were "only" 34 pts behind.
Yep, for the team the Dees had in, the way the game looked on the tube as well as the stats, the Dees should have won bigger.
Unless they're starting extra early in getting our hopes down and setting themselves up for another massive tilt at the draft.
But that's probably too far fetched.
we've been hitting that draft for 15 years. Perhaps try something different, like winning
You can say all you want about it being the first game against Melbourne but I remember the first game last year how refreshingly organised Carlton looked in our defensive structures. Bolton brought over a new system from Hawthorn and you could see it straight away.
Well today we looked all at sea on every front and that is concerning
In fact it is alarming and considering how abysmal we were in the 2nd half of 2016, if this is what we are going to expect in 2017 well just piss Bryce Gibbs off to Adelaide and cya in 2018.
Only positives were Charlie Curnow got plenty of it in the midfield and Caleb Marchbank looked really good.
Carlton will not win a game in 2017.
Disagree.
We actually saw that last year.
We saw it a few times when we won the thing.
What you won't see is a true prediction of regular season form from the pre-season.
(I hope that continues to be true, otherwise its a long season)
It totally depends on what approach the club takes to the pre-season.
Do they want to approach it with intensity or just go through the motions and shake the cobwebs out
This year it's become even more meaningless with no real competition involved.
It's like the old practice games.
we've been hitting that draft for 15 years. Perhaps try something different, like winning
I agree. I believe we tried this "winning" thing a few seasons back, but it wasn't correct for whatever reasons, so we had to change tack.
Yes I know it's only preseason but geez was hoping to see a better display then that considering the strength of the team picked.
Our forward structure is STILL stuffed and defence was not a shadow of what it was last year.
Marchbank looks a player as does McKay but Smedt looks like we have just added another turnover merchant to the list and Palmer showed exactly why no one wanted him.........except us.
Murphy was Murphy and Gibbs was Gibbs. Same
Old same old.
Gonna be a very long season again sadly.
Don't know why we waste game time and list spaces on cloggers like Thomas, Smedts, White, Palmer, Gorringe, Buckley.... Tried, tested, not good enough. At least the kids have some class but after time in the system the aforementioned aren't going to suddenly become AA types.
Our midfield is four players short of being competitive.
Disappointed but as expected.
I just watched the highlights on the AFL website - apart from a couple of passages of play, our players were literally jogging back and forth, almost as if by instruction. I know people on here have said "no run", but can anyone confirm that the highlights I saw are a correct reflection of the match ? i.e did the team spend most of the time jogging around, rather than running full pelt ?
Also, both teams had 0 interchanges, according to the stats.
EDIT : it seems as though they're not keeping track of the rotations - all the completed matches show 0 interchanges.
Haven't seen the game but disappointed in the result. Would have liked a much closer run result than that.
Yep, for the team the Dees had in, the way the game looked on the tube as well as the stats, the Dees should have won bigger.
With who the dees had in ??? We only had Cripps out.
Surely BB is shaking his head a little as we all are!
With who the dees had in ??? We only had Cripps out.
Surely BB is shaking his head a little as we all are!
There was only one team trying out there today.
Some of us have been suggesting that a bottom four finish would be unacceptable...well if a meaningless practice game has folks upset Bolton's unlikely to last until Round three. :D
What it does do is indicate the need for there to be identifiable progress this season otherwise these pressures will become real influences.
In reality we applied no real pressure or intensity during most of that game.
The other major factor was that this was the first game together for so many of the team that the team understanding wasn't there.
Seasoned players who are aware that it's a long season ahead would have been operating at about 75%
I'm sure we'll be much better prepared for the contest come the Richmond game.
Serve that up then and folks will have real reason for complaint
There was only one team trying out there today.
Just out of curiosity, what is that you think we were doing today?
Just out of curiosity, what is that you think we were doing today?
Working half as hard. That's fair enough, it's just a pre-season game.
Working half as hard. That's fair enough, it's just a pre-season game.
It wasn't a pre-season game for Melbourne?
unless that appetite takes a while to manifest, what i saw today was rusty awful footy.
i'll abate judgement until the next couple, but if it doesn't improve, we're bottom 4.
And before im attacked for it being a practice game, from Melbourne's perspective, i didn't see them get out
3rd gear.
appetite needs to be developed when you're on the lower deck
Dees were competing for spots.
Different teams will have different priorities at this time of the year.
Melbourne's win over the Bulldogs indicates that they're using this series of matches to really push hard.
Whether that benefits them in a long season is to be determined.
Seven of our players played less than half of the game, so our priority today was giving them a taste. (Gorringe's injury apart, though it's likely he would have been less than 50% as well.)
I'm sure that experimentation applied to positional play as well.
We had different priorities to Melbourne today.
Winning wasn't one of them.
Those priorities will probably be different again next game culminating in the best possible line-up for when it really counts
Just got back from the game and from the get-go you could see that the Go Dees were playing for keeps. They were 100% committed at every contest and were so well drilled. Us? Not so much... understatement. We looked rusty and as if we were experimenting.
Very few highlights for those of us who travelled a fair way to watch what seemed a 75% commitment... but it's not about us who travel but the bigger picture. Our marketing at the game also seemed lacklustre... the Go Dees had a huge banner for the seniors to run through but there was a real low key entrance from our boys. The Go Dees AFLW gals interacted a lot with fans... our gals just vanished after the loss and little supporter interaction. I understand it was a Go Dees home game but really?
Disappointed in the efforts of Thomas, Buckley, Silvagni, and Cuningham. Cuningham got a couple of free kicks which helped hide his lack of intent and costly errors. Palmer looks a little slow.
Positives: Kruezer, Marchbank, Simpson, Smedts, Rowe, Fisher, C Curnow, Le Bois, Pickett and Casboult - liked his around the ground work.
Dees were competing for spots.
Saints v Dees in Rd 1 will be a cracker.
I'd already watched that post game interview.
We tried some things. I get that, i expect that.
What i'm disappointed in was that whatever we tried today, didn't seem to really achieve much.
But more importantly, i don't think we tried to put in a lack of effort. I couldn't give a toss about winning today.
Not sure if it was Mick or Bolts, but one of them had a phrase akin to
"Effort is unconditional"
That is the most disappointing thing from today. Try whatever you want to try....but make sure you are putting in maximum effort.
Only watched the 1st half, it was horrible.
i understand a coach wants to try new things, but weitering in the forward line irks me
he is either a defender or not. He's young and needs to learn the craft.
i understand a coach wants to try new things, but weitering in the forward line irks me
he is either a defender or not. He's young and needs to learn the craft.
One of our defenders will end up forward I reckon. Not sure we could play all of Rowe, Marchbank, Plowman and Weitering in defence. Going by today Casboult is going to share ruck duties with Phillips injured so we have a spot there. Two actually.
Well that was pretty rank.
POSITIVES?
IT'S ONLY PRESEASON!!!
Melbourne did play last week so they're ahead of us and looked it.
Bolton seemed to be operating his minimal bench rotations in preseason to harden everyone's running ability so this will have contributed to the exhaustion our players seemed to be experiencing - and led to fatigue and many bad decisions and poor disposal.
Pickett!
Looks fit and looks like he's got the goods. Wish he'd played the whole game and further up the ground.
Smedts was ok I thought but didn't look best suited to the tight game. I like his agility.
Backline and forward line almost get a pass from me today. It was impossible to judge how good/bad they were on today's effort from the midfield who should be embarrassed by what they dished up.
I've been saying for some time - Weitering has to play forward. It's where we most need him. He looks a natural up there for me. Kicked 1. All but kicked a second (into the breeze) and played a big part in at least 1 more.
Fisher looks like a real get. Thank god he's short otherwise he'd never have made it to pick 25.
Marchbank looks the goods also. Was probably our best.
Cripps didn't play and he constitutes half our team as far as I'm concerned. SPS was also missing. I also think A Silvagni has to play. Must be so far in front of White it's ridiculous SW played.
NEGATIVES
We were horrible. Reminded me of the games against StK last year when we got pumped. Mids were unable to apply any pressure and when that happens Bolton's system breaks down completely.
Docherty was absolutely putrid. If he did one good thing for the day I missed it. Dropped easy marks and generally played like he was wearing a pair of oven mittens. Was my worst on the ground mostly because I know he can be so much better.
Thomas is officially done.
Kerridge is waaaay too slow as is Curnow, White, Wright and Gibbs and we can't play them all together. Guys like Polson / Williamson / Pickett should be played in front of the Kerridge/Thomas types.
Cunningham worries me. He has an unhappy knack of playing entire quarters with zero pos. Did start to look better late in the game but was COMPLETELY anonymous in the first 3 quarters.
LeBois is still some way off (despite his goal of the year) but Pickett is way in front of him based on today.
Gibbs had little impact and Murphy less than zero. There has always been something uninspiring about those 2.
Cripps & Weitering should be our leaders sooner rather than later.
Not surprised at all by the result, we looked messy without system and the Dees are bordering on being final 8 material and have a much better team..
Without Cripps we will struggle against every team...thats a given IMO, we look undersized without him around the ball and the Dees players just broke our tackles and were too big bodied overall.
Really like Marchbank who was the pick of the newbies, Pickett was good and at looks a solid player....Smedts was reasonable..
Dees looked more advanced in their preparation, fitter and Goodwin has put an edge on them while Bolton is still getting the basics of a gameplan across to some of our blokes who have to learn to play together and that takes time....
Wouldnt be too worried as its all part of the rebuild and we are going to see some poor losses as part of the process.....
Having read all the comments on here, Bolton's after match comments, highlights and the like, I think it's obvious that the boys were just going through the motions, almost certainly under instruction. Bolton didn't sound like he cared, the boys were just jogging around etc. Minimal effort just to show up and participate.
As Lods said, different teams approach the pre season differently. The Swans under Roos were notorious for treating the pre season as a joke, and Roos made this pretty clear on a few occasions.
So if we're serving this up for pre season, fine. If this is what we bring in Round 1, watch out.
Agree with PaulP. Whether we're good enough to go through the motions is another question but we better give it a red hot go come round 1.
I agree with EB on this one.
D's are a couple of years ahead of us in terms of list development. Although we have been their Achilles heel during recent times.
I really liked what I saw (TV fox) from:
big H - loved his chase, tackle, and below knees work
Charlie - couple of endearing little gigs with his bro. The Blues brothers ;)
SOJ - quiet. That will be a great motivator for him
Cunningham - a few flashes, nice link up with little Zac
Weitering - almost forgot he's only a 2nd yr player. Solid.
Zac - good vision and lovely kick, didn't look intimidated by big body challenges
LeBois - aside goal of the year, positioned himself well (in what appeared a less than organized plan), looked dangerous. Enter 1AW - you have much to work with.
Smedts - OK, hope he'll build quickly with a few under his belt
Pickett - flashes of real class, looks composed and has good awareness
Marchbank - our future. He's a gun
Palmer - one threat around goals, otherwise... need to see more before I comment
Of our seniors:
Casboult created a consistent presence. Couple of nice marks, snaps, and improved set shot technique
Rowe, as above. Marked well (instead of spoiling) and even did a cheeky play on. I think confidence might be up under Bolts. Looking forward to see if he's got another string in his bow
What didn't impress me:
Thomas - sadly, looks like the end is now
Our senior stars were lacklustre. Hope to see good buildup to R1 in R2/3
Buckley, White, Kerridge need to work hard if they're to keep a spot
While our good patches were, well, good. They were short lived and too few. Our bad patches on the other hand were quite long. Our seniors didn't (perhaps under instruction) manage that. Understandably, this makes supporters anxious - hold on folks... It was great to see the new blokes, who mostly went alright. Our big challenge will be gaining consistency. Naturally that will take time with a rebuilding team. If our other new blokes are as good, we're heading in the right direction.
Go Blues
The thing about our list and those of us who have been on this site for so long is it resonates in that old Bob Dylan Quote "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
There is no magical quick fix.
The vets.
Murph
Gibbs
Kreuzer
Simmo
E Curnow
Armfield
Rowe
White
Levi
The solid core.
Cripps
Weitering
Docherty
C Curnow
Silvagni
Mckay
Marchbank
Plowman
Wright
Phillips
Byrne
Speculative.
Cunningham
Buckley
Kerridge
Palmer
Boekhorst
Lamb
Sumner
Smedts
Gorringe
Graham
Gone
Jaksch
Jones
Thomas
Youngsters
Petevski-seton
Fisher
Macreadie
Polson
Williamson
Pickett
Kerr
Gorridge done his Achilles.
Footage of him punching the table in the rooms indicated it was a serious injury.
Felt for him - had a small opening with Phillips out for a few months.
Cruel game sometimes.
We better nurse Kruezer the rest of the pre season. Can't afford him to break down with no reasonable back up.
I was at the game and concur with most of what has been said thus far. I wasn't going along to the game with great expectations but I was expecting effort. The fact that I could notice lack of effort from some very early in the game was disappointing. If this was by design then I don't get it.
A team in out situation needs to have naturally competitive players who despite any situation will provide maximum effort no matter what. It engenders an all in it together philosophy throughout the team and lets the opposition know that we're never out of it.
I can forgive skill errors and decision making but I won't accept lack of effort, especially from our recognised leaders. Murph and Gibbs were not providing the best example to our newbies and thats disappointing. By contrast I thought Simmo could say he provided maximum effort whilst on the ground. Didn't he get the memo?
Marchbank, Fisher, Pickett gave some indication that they have something to offer going forward and Le Bois provided a nice highlight. I thought Kreuze moved well and did some good things, Weitering was solid, Ed tried with minimal impact, Charlie was OK without being spectacular. There were a lot of players that didn't contribute much. We clearly missed Crippa around the ball. Why are we persisting with Daisy?
The fact that some players can turn effort on and off and that this has been going on for too long is a worry and is one reason we've been crap for so long. I know its a pre season game in Summer and I didn't care about the result, but I expected better. Am I wrong to think this way?
Having read all the comments on here, Bolton's after match comments, highlights and the like, I think it's obvious that the boys were just going through the motions, almost certainly under instruction. Bolton didn't sound like he cared, the boys were just jogging around etc. Minimal effort just to show up and participate.
As Lods said, different teams approach the pre season differently. The Swans under Roos were notorious for treating the pre season as a joke, and Roos made this pretty clear on a few occasions.
So if we're serving this up for pre season, fine. If this is what we bring in Round 1, watch out.
It was all about the metrics Paul, as Craig said in his JLT preview.
One of the pleasing aspects was that blokes who haven't played much footy ran out the game and showed a bit. Among that group, Marchbank was a stand out for me. He started a bit slowly but found his rhythm and really started to look the part.
On the flipside, while Thomas had a reasonable third quarter, he seems to have lost the ability to find space and time. He seems to be always under pressure when he gets the ball and is rarely effective or creative With his use of the ball. It was only one game but I suspect that the 5th year is looking shaky.
It was good to see Murphy back and not suffering any ill-effects from his ankle injury. His bitch-slapping of Viney was unexpected but not unwelcome :)
My hope is that Bolts told the boys "Do what you like, just don't get reported, don't blow a gasket, and don't get injured."
My hope is that, just like the Swans under Roos, we can "flick a switch", and be ready to roll and play serious footy in Round 1, irrespective of what we dish up in the pre season. Hope springs eternal.
@SOS Rules - not wrong or right, just your perspective.
Feel bad for Gorringe. Hope, hope, hope it's only minor.
Well that was pretty rank.
POSITIVES?
IT'S ONLY PRESEASON!!!
Melbourne did play last week so they're ahead of us and looked it. Important fact. And we didn't work hard off the ball at all.
Bolton seemed to be operating his minimal bench rotations in preseason to harden everyone's running ability so this will have contributed to the exhaustion our players seemed to be experiencing - and led to fatigue and many bad decisions and poor disposal.
Pickett!
Looks fit and looks like he's got the goods. Wish he'd played the whole game and further up the ground. Yep. Agree.
Smedts was ok I thought but didn't look best suited to the tight game. I like his agility. Yep, some very good signs with this bloke.
Backline and forward line almost get a pass from me today. It was impossible to judge how good/bad they were on today's effort from the midfield who should be embarrassed by what they dished up. Bingo!
I've been saying for some time - Weitering has to play forward. It's where we most need him. He looks a natural up there for me. Kicked 1. All but kicked a second (into the breeze) and played a big part in at least 1 more. Looks so much bigger than last year. Real presence on the ground. We might be the only two who would love to see him up forward.
Fisher looks like a real get. Thank god he's short otherwise he'd never have made it to pick 25. You got it, a good number of folks in the crowd thought the very same thing. His intent, attack on the aggot and man (opposite to Cuningham) was first rate.
Marchbank looks the goods also. Was probably our best. Right on Mr B (sorry, younger cats won't get the 'Mr B' reference' - Google Brashs).
Cripps didn't play and he constitutes half our team as far as I'm concerned. SPS was also missing. I also think A Silvagni has to play. Must be so far in front of White it's ridiculous SW played. A Silvagni is a must.
NEGATIVES
We were horrible. Reminded me of the games against StK last year when we got pumped. Mids were unable to apply any pressure and when that happens Bolton's system breaks down completely.
Docherty was absolutely putrid. If he did one good thing for the day I missed it. Dropped easy marks and generally played like he was wearing a pair of oven mittens. Was my worst on the ground mostly because I know he can be so much better. 100% agree, he caused many groans in the crowd, doubt we'll ever see a game like that again from the Doc.
Thomas is officially done. Close to Docherty in the 'putrid' stakes.
Kerridge is waaaay too slow as is Curnow, White, Wright and Gibbs and we can't play them all together. Guys like Polson / Williamson / Pickett should be played in front of the Kerridge/Thomas types. Tick.
Cunningham worries me. He has an unhappy knack of playing entire quarters with zero pos. Did start to look better late in the game but was COMPLETELY anonymous in the first 3 quarters. Lacks intent and that's been my knock on him since watching him in the twos. Does some nice things but then retires for a hour or so.
LeBois is still some way off (despite his goal of the year) but Pickett is way in front of him based on today.
Gibbs had little impact and Murphy less than zero. There has always been something uninspiring about those 2.
Cripps & Weitering should be our leaders sooner rather than later. Yep.
Well said. I don't know if you were at yesterday's game but it sure sounds like you were at the same game I was!
Well said. I don't know if you were at yesterday's game but it sure sounds like you were at the same game I was!
Agree with the sentiments re. Weitering. We desperately need someone with some real footy nous in our F50 (as well as the ability to kick goals) and perhaps he'd be able to direct some of the lesser lights there as to what to do and where to go? Depends who we've got coming through for the defensive roles but we know that Marchbank and A. Silvagni are two options.
Hard to not be really disappointed and frustrated by what they served up yesterday - but it's only mid Feb and our first proper hit out.
The good;
- Levi looked fit and mobile, took some nice marks and the kicking looked better
- Matt K competed well and worked hard around the ball. With Gorringe & Philipps injured he has a massive load to carry.
- Marchbank looked really poised.Got better as the game went on.
- Pickett showed some glimpses. Given how poor our forward line was he can only help
- Harry moved well, showed intent and looks like a footballer
- Charlie C kept at it and got a few nice touches when he went in the middle. He has a crack.
- Fisher showed he has some spark and good skills
- Simmo kept trying, but some of his disposal and being such a one sided player hurt his teammates
The bad;
- Daisy. Started like he finished last year. Intent on avoiding tackles and doesn't set up play like you want from a player with his experience [and coin]
- Gibbs & Murphy. Provided zero leadership or presence on the game. Strolled around and gave shi**y handballs to guys under pressure. Contrast their games with what Jones, Viney and Lewis served up for Melbourne. If those 2 don't play well we are not competitive, as we saw at the back end of last year.
- Tackle pressure was atrocious. 15 players had 1 tackle or less. They basically did what they wanted with the ball.
- We look soft and small around the ball. We just got pushed around by the Melbourne bigger bodies. Cripps can't do it all, and our lack of hard midfielders is going to hurt us
- The forward line is STILL a shambles. 6 marks inside 50 for the game [vs 21 for Melbourne]. We had 3 talls fly for the ball at times, we were constantly outnumbered when the ball hit the ground, tackle pressure was poor and they moved the ball from their kickouts with ease.
- Buckley and White. I still have no idea why these 2 guys are on the list. They have shown so little over such a long period, and they continue to dish up the same dross but keep getting a game. Complete non events yesterday.
- Cunningham and Silvagni. Wanted to see a lot more intensity and effort from 2nd year players who are trying to cement a spot. Both had zero impact on the game.
I have predicted all along we will be bottom 4 because we have limited midfield depth and no forward line, and nothing I saw yesterday tells me differently. Given our structural and personnel issues the only way we will cause problems for other teams is if we play with manic intensity and effort, and what I saw yesterday was a mile away from that. I can't imagine how that could have been an instruction from the coaches.
Melbourne have got a very balanced side now, and when they aren't under pressure [like yesterday] they look very good. There midfield is much deeper and stronger than ours, and they have a pretty potent forward line with good balance - they could easily make the 8 this year.
They're all fair points sbf.
It's the example that always get trotted out in these circumstances, but if you cast your mind back to 2005, we won the pre season comp, then won the spoon. Conversely the Swans have never played in a pre season final, and they've done ok in the h/a season.
In fact, as someone else suggested, you can find every pattern imaginable if you do a historical comparison of team performance in the ps v h/a.
The long and short - what happens in the p/s has little bearing on what happens in the h/a.
No doubt yesterday was yucko. I don't have an issue with this in the p/s, but if this is a portent of what to expect in the h/a, then it will be an awful season.
Remember also, we have the highest number of u/21's on our list (I think Emily or Grace said 13), so this may also be a factor. Young bodies IMO can't be relied upon week in week out (through no fault of their own), and this, for the present, contributes to a lack of depth. They will tire as the season progresses, and their bodies won't stand up to the rigours of footy for an entire season. Which then means the senior players carry more load, which then etc..............
Bolton seemed to be operating his minimal bench rotations in preseason to harden everyone's running ability so this will have contributed to the exhaustion our players seemed to be experiencing - and led to fatigue and many bad decisions and poor disposal.
We used 22 players in each half (21 after Gorringe went off) while Melbourne used all 26 players. While that gave Melbourne an advantage, I think Bolton is on the right track in using the pre-season games as preparation for the real thing.
The good from yesterday was that it did shine a light on the plodders we have in midfield.
Our best team needs a lot more pace than what we had in yesterday.
SPS is quick. Pickett has to play up the ground more. Armfield should be ahead of quite a few slower players. Fisher has to play.
Pick one of Curnow, Kerridge, Wright and Thomas. Don't play them all in the same team.
jeza,
Curnow and Wright are both in our best 22 IMO. Would both be among the first picked every week.
Nowhere in the press of on the club website, did I see that we have had a full on intra club hit out. Also the 'number of games played together' stat, if one exists, would show that we have an exceptionally high number of players who yesterday would have played 5 or less games together as a group.
Need game time and plenty of it.
I seem to remember that the very first game we played last year was against Drug Cheats FC and they absolutely pantsed us with half a list missing and a bunch of top-ups who had done no preseason.
We didn't do much better in the next two games either.
And then, should really have won in Round 1.
As they say in the classics, 4 weeks is a long time in footy.
I will only get worried if we see the same lack of effort in the real thing.
BTW Melbourne used 8 interchange players throughout the game, while Carlton only used the 4 (as per the normal season).
The good from yesterday was that it did shine a light on the plodders we have in midfield.
Our best team needs a lot more pace than what we had in yesterday.
SPS is quick. Pickett has to play up the ground more. Armfield should be ahead of quite a few slower players. Fisher has to play.
Pick one of Curnow, Kerridge, Wright and Thomas. Don't play them all in the same team.
Each of those 4 players have some serious issues with their games [either pace, foot skills, tackle pressure, decision making or a combination of all].
But Curnow is the hardest running and fittest midfielder we have who never stops trying and can play a shut down role, and Wright is our smartest small forward and highest goal kicker - so they both get picked each week for the forseeable future.
Kerridge is honest and runs hard, but is pretty slow and his kicking skills and decision making are pretty ordinary. He does put in a solid 4 qtr effort each week, but has serious limitations. He had 20 disposals in half a game yesterday so was far from our worst, but he doesn't really hurt the opposition much. He provides midfield depth, but ideally you don't want him playing every week.
Daisy is a shot duck IMO. I just don't know what role he can play for the team. They seem to have tried him in 3 or 4 different roles last year with very limited success. They might try him as a running HBF now Tuohy has gone, but his pace is gone and he kicks it sideways about 20m. I'd cut my losses on him for sure.
The reality is unless Lamb, Boek, SPS, Cunningham, Charlie C can take a big step up and become consistent midfielders or role players then we left with at least 3 or these in our best 22. I hope like hell that 3 out of those 5 work out, or else we are in deep you know what.
In the real season work rate and experience defeats speed, it's pointless being fast if you do not get the right spots at the right time.
That is why the older smarter guys keep getting games, they do the work to get in the right spot or dispose of an opponent before the ball gets in the area. It's how guys like Gibbs keep racking up 30 possessions a game.
SPS, Pickett, Le Bois, Fischer would just be chasing tails all season because they cannot work their way through the game, where to be and when they have to be there.
Weitering is such a stand out for this reason, he looked smart and ready to work from day one, but by late last season opponents started putting doubt in his head and we saw him caught out of position.
It's naive to think pace is all you need to be a better football option, guys like Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Gibson, Viney, Cripps make a mockery of that idea. Betts had plenty of pace his whole career at Carlton, has probably lost some pace now, and is becoming a far better footballer.
jeza,
Curnow and Wright are both in our best 22 IMO. Would both be among the first picked every week.
Ed Curnow would be in "The 22" of most AFL teams based on recent seasons.
I remember a lot of posters on here telling everyone how bad Laidler was and how he wouldn't get a game at any other club!
How about those who claimed Betts wasn't worth more than $350k, and all but accused him of highway robbery?
The message from those posters seems the same diatribe for just about every player who isn't a flash in the pan speedster or goal kicker.
In the real season work rate and experience defeats speed, it's pointless being fast if you do not get the right spots at the right time.
That is why the older smarter guys keep getting games, they do the work to get in the right spot or dispose of an opponent before the ball gets in the area. It's how guys like Gibbs keep racking up 30 possessions a game.
SPS, Pickett, Le Bois, Fischer would just be chasing tails all season because they cannot work their way through the game, where to be and when they have to be there.
Weitering is such a stand out for this reason, he looked smart and ready to work from day one, but by late last season opponents started putting doubt in his head and we saw him caught out of position.
It's naive to think pace is all you need to be a better football option, guys like Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Gibson, Viney, Cripps make a mockery of that idea. Betts had plenty of pace his whole career at Carlton, has probably lost some pace now, and is becoming a far better footballer.
I think that it's about having time to use the ball LP. Pace can help but it's due more to quick thinking, good decision-making, alertness, peripheral vision, communication with team mates, etc (and work rate and experience of course). I wouldn't class SOJ as quick but the first time I saw him play I was surprised by how much time he seemed to have. That convinced me that he would be an AFL player. At the other end of the scale, Daisy now doesn't seem to have any time when he gets the ball.
I think that it's about having time to use the ball LP. Pace can help but it's due more to quick thinking, good decision-making, alertness, peripheral vision, communication with team mates, etc (and work rate and experience of course). I wouldn't class SOJ as quick but the first time I saw him play I was surprised by how much time he seemed to have. That convinced me that he would be an AFL player. At the other end of the scale, Daisy now doesn't seem to have any time when he gets the ball.
Agreed, but quick thinking is also knowing what to do, and these first years would get slaughtered, their confidence would be dented and if thrown to the wolves repeatedly it might never recover.
Also, sometimes that loss of space for players like Daisy or Gibbs to work in is caused by the newbies being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ask Fev and Setanta!
I seem to remember that the very first game we played last year was against Drug Cheats FC and they absolutely pantsed us with half a list missing and a bunch of top-ups who had done no preseason.
We didn't do much better in the next two games either.
And then, should really have won in Round 1.
As they say in the classics, 4 weeks is a long time in footy.
I will only get worried if we see the same lack of effort in the real thing.
BTW Melbourne used 8 interchange players throughout the game, while Carlton only used the 4 (as per the normal season).
Yes, not worried about practice games as long as I see intensity and effort come March 23.
Ed Curnow would be in "The 22" of most AFL teams based on recent seasons.
I remember a lot of posters on here telling everyone how bad Laidler was and how he wouldn't get a game at any other club!
How about those who claimed Betts wasn't worth more than $350k, and all but accused him of highway robbery?
The message from those posters seems the same diatribe for just about every player who isn't a flash in the pan speedster or goal kicker.
Generally agree. My impression is that Laidler was recruited by the Swans as cheap insurance cover for Alex Johnson. He's been lucky that Johnson can't seem to get on the park, but full credit to Laids. Being an understudy in a top 4 team, getting regular senior gigs and doing a lot of things right ( a couple of dodgy things here and there) - that's a fair effort for someone who is supposedly an inflexible PITA. I'm happy for him.
Gorridge done his Achilles.
Footage of him punching the table in the rooms indicated it was a serious injury.
Felt for him - had a small opening with Phillips out for a few months.
Cruel game sometimes.
We better nurse Kruezer the rest of the pre season. Can't afford him to break down with no reasonable back up.
bring in Korchek.
They're all fair points sbf.
It's the example that always get trotted out in these circumstances, but if you cast your mind back to 2005, we won the pre season comp, then won the spoon. Conversely the Swans have never played in a pre season final, and they've done ok in the h/a season.
In fact, as someone else suggested, you can find every pattern imaginable if you do a historical comparison of team performance in the ps v h/a.
The long and short - what happens in the p/s has little bearing on what happens in the h/a.
No doubt yesterday was yucko. I don't have an issue with this in the p/s, but if this is a portent of what to expect in the h/a, then it will be an awful season.
Remember also, we have the highest number of u/21's on our list (I think Emily or Grace said 13), so this may also be a factor. Young bodies IMO can't be relied upon week in week out (through no fault of their own), and this, for the present, contributes to a lack of depth. They will tire as the season progresses, and their bodies won't stand up to the rigours of footy for an entire season. Which then means the senior players carry more load, which then etc..............
This.
As much as our youngsters excite, we must be patient. Aside from our established seniors, it's the stopgap players that will fill spots this year. The likes of A Silvagni and RP. The youngsters (years 1-2) will have a balance of exposure and physical/mental development. The likes of Boeky, Sumner, Buckley will need to step up if we're to stay in games. Our recruiting featured quality talls (years 1-2) and quality smalls (year 1). My guess is our next recruits will be the engine room (Cripps type). The former groups develop then look to add the class (marque). This will be our future in the 20-26 age bracket. That's when we should be there abouts (with GWS as they win back-backs) as I see it. I'm looking for development not wins this year. Not to say I won't sook when we get thumped :'(
Slick vs Slack.
EOS
I'm going to be so pissed if we ruck McKay!
PS: To all those ruckmen haters, we got loads of options too many of them already! ;)
So they'll ruck McKay, you can see it coming!
I'm going to be so pissed if we ruck McKay!
PS: To all those ruckmen haters, we got loads of options too many of them already! ;)
So they'll ruck McKay, you can see it coming!
x2
I'm going to be so pissed if we ruck McKay!
PS: To all those ruckmen haters, we got loads of options too many of them already! ;)
So they'll ruck McKay, you can see it coming!
Surely not. Particularly given his lengthy 1st year injury. This is essentially his first year in the system.
They said it - he's still growing. :o
Whilst there's nothing wrong with training versatility, our forward line is the goal for young Harry.
Surely we'd nurse MK along with some help from Rowe and perhaps the Bolt.
Flipper, all going well, should then be able to back up some rounds in.
Not sure of anyone who said we have enough ruckmen, but surely there would have to be a black sheep in there somewhere. Pretty sure most of us thought we needed more cover in the ruck.
Casboult should be our next ruckman in line after Kreuzer. Then Rowe. Then Korchek. McKay should be last on the list.
My preference would be for Harry Mac to not be on that list at all. I'd rather have Murph do the rucking.
My preference would be for Harry Mac to not be on that list at all. I'd rather have Murph do the rucking.
Thats what i was implying. ;)
Thats what i was implying. ;)
Good to hear.
Good to hear.
At least we have a role for Liam, KJ or Daisy next week!
I wouldn't risk Korcheck - we might actually need him at some stage, unlike those 3......
I'm still not sure why Harry shouldn't be played in the ruck ???
Apparently he has bulked up to 100kg and most of the top ruckmen in the competition began rucking at 19 years of age.
My guess is that the top ruckmen to which you refer are actually recruited as ruckmen and not as something else.
Rucking is seen as something a little unskilled compared to other positions, and it's a job that tends to fall to big blokes with er........ let's call them limitations. Which isn't to say that you can't have great ruckmen. Quite the contrary. It's also very wearing on the body.
I reckon we've earmarked Harry for greater things. But that's just my opinion.
My preference would be for Harry Mac to not be on that list at all. I'd rather have Murph do the rucking.
He didn't do so well in the marking contest against Max yesterday. I think his confidence might suffer a tad ;)
He didn't do so well in the marking contest against Max yesterday. I think his confidence might suffer a tad ;)
He wasn't trying hard enough. Must be under instruction.
Two things I took out of the game.
1. We are still relying heavily on the experienced heads to get through matches. Whilst that occurs we won't achieve a lot. Until these blokes are bit part players and the sub 25 year olds are our better performers we will be in for a rough time.
2. It's pretty hard for blokes to have pace with tired legs resulting in tired minds, and tired execution. We had feck all rotations going on by design in comparison to Melbourne.
Petracca was impressive. Very impressive.
My guess is that the top ruckmen to which you refer are actually recruited as ruckmen and not as something else.
Rucking is seen as something a little unskilled compared to other positions, and it's a job that tends to fall to big blokes with er........ let's call them limitations. Which isn't to say that you can't have great ruckmen. Quite the contrary. It's also very wearing on the body.
I reckon we've earmarked Harry for greater things. But that's just my opinion.
That's very unkind to ruckmen Paul ;)
Harry was a ruckman/forward at TAC and our stated preference is for blokes who can play multiple roles. He clearly knows how to ruck and has the physical attributes to do so. I'd like see him develop into a key forward who can ruck when required and I don't expect him to be vying with Kreuzer for our first ruck position.
I just don't understand why the sky will fall if we play Harry in the ruck :-\
I'm
That's very unkind to ruckmen Paul ;)
Harry was a ruckman/forward at TAC and our stated preference is for blokes who can play multiple roles. He clearly knows how to ruck and has the physical attributes to do so. I'd like see him develop into a key forward who can ruck when required and I don't expect him to be vying with Kreuzer for our first ruck position.
I just don't understand why the sky will fall if we play Harry in the ruck :-\
I'm
Agreed, it may even help the young bloke get more involved in the game, during a game, and in turn, grow his confidence that he belongs at this highest level?
That's very unkind to ruckmen Paul ;)
Harry was a ruckman/forward at TAC and our stated preference is for blokes who can play multiple roles. He clearly knows how to ruck and has the physical attributes to do so. I'd like see him develop into a key forward who can ruck when required and I don't expect him to be vying with Kreuzer for our first ruck position.
I just don't understand why the sky will fall if we play Harry in the ruck :-\
I'm
Perhaps I was unkind, and I'm not from the Grant Thomas School, but I really want to see Harry spend plenty of time up forward in the early part of his career. Perhaps further down the track, like when he's played 300 games, then he can ruck. Key forward is more important than ruck IMO, and since we have a dearth of the former, I say play him forward.
My 2 bob's worth.
In the real season work rate and experience defeats speed, it's pointless being fast if you do not get the right spots at the right time.
That is why the older smarter guys keep getting games, they do the work to get in the right spot or dispose of an opponent before the ball gets in the area. It's how guys like Gibbs keep racking up 30 possessions a game.
SPS, Pickett, Le Bois, Fischer would just be chasing tails all season because they cannot work their way through the game, where to be and when they have to be there.
Weitering is such a stand out for this reason, he looked smart and ready to work from day one, but by late last season opponents started putting doubt in his head and we saw him caught out of position.
It's naive to think pace is all you need to be a better football option, guys like Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Gibson, Viney, Cripps make a mockery of that idea. Betts had plenty of pace his whole career at Carlton, has probably lost some pace now, and is becoming a far better footballer.
Nothing wrong with playing slow players as long as they are playing well enough to do enougj damage to offset what you give up by them being slow.
If Boltons gameplan is to work he needs guys who can put pressure on and you need pace for that. We couldnt get near Melb on the weekend.
Season Over...
One day people will figure that these games mean less than nothing. At least there was something to play for before. May as well start the season, i have watched very little football and will continue to do so.
Season Over...
One day people will figure that these games mean less than nothing. At least there was something to play for before. May as well start the season, i have watched very little football and will continue to do so.
IMO when you have such an inexperienced squad, and so many guys who haven't played together, and so many spots up for grabs, any game against 'real' opposition means something. What you want to see is some intensity and effort from the guys trying to win spots, and a chance to see if certain structures or plans hold up against real pressure. We have so many areas that need to improve you want to see some signs of forward progress - however small.
The problem with Saturday is there wasn't much of any of that. A few young guys showed a bit, but plenty of them didn't, and our tackle pressure, running and intensity was very poor. Our forward setup was as bad as ever, with 6 marks i50.
If Boltons gameplan is to work he needs guys who can put pressure on and you need pace for that. We couldnt get near Melb on the weekend.
I think that is too simplistic, you are looking at it from a chasing perspective which is only a very small part of AFL pressure acts. Most teams, even the fastest, wouldn't effect more than 2 or 3 run down tackles a round on a good day.
Applying and building pressure has very little to do with chasing in a normal AFL game, pressure is applied when the ball is in dispute not when one team has clear possession. It's about being in the right places to create disputes and a contest, primarily by causing the ball carrier to be confused or slow to decide, not chasing ball carriers down.
Nobody can run as fast as a handball or kick, and once a player gets three or four clear steps 75% of the time he'll deliver clear possessions to advantage!
If you rely on running players down you have a losing strategy, you are trying to capture the horse that has bolted.
I'm still not sure why Harry shouldn't be played in the ruck ???
Apparently he has bulked up to 100kg and most of the top ruckmen in the competition began rucking at 19 years of age.
Because if McKay gets injured in the ruck (rucks have a higher injury risk) then we are stuck with someone like Jaksch or Jones to go with Casboult.
I don't expect to win many games this year as it is...lets not make it certain!
Yes, agree with kruds. I still don't like this idea.
Yes, agree with kruds. I still don't like this idea.
x2. I think you'd see the big Yank in action before young H gets rucked.
I'm still not sure why Harry shouldn't be played in the ruck ???
Apparently he has bulked up to 100kg and most of the top ruckmen in the competition began rucking at 19 years of age.
Size comes before strength. Wouldn't ruck McKay at 19. Kreuzer and Casboult will ruck for sure. That's actually been the our best combo for while anyway. Kreuzer tends to ruck much more and plays alot better while Casbout gets a chance to build his confidence by marking around the ground, where he seems do alot better. Reckon one of our defenders will go forward with McKay as we can play all of Rowe, Marchbank, Weitering and Plowman in defence.
I think that is too simplistic, you are looking at it from a chasing perspective which is only a very small part of AFL pressure acts. Most teams, even the fastest, wouldn't effect more than 2 or 3 run down tackles a round on a good day.
Applying and building pressure has very little to do with chasing in a normal AFL game, pressure is applied when the ball is in dispute not when one team has clear possession. It's about being in the right places to create disputes and a contest, primarily by causing the ball carrier to be confused or slow to decide, not chasing ball carriers down.
Nobody can run as fast as a handball or kick, and once a player gets three or four clear steps 75% of the time he'll deliver clear possessions to advantage!
If you rely on running players down you have a losing strategy, you are trying to capture the horse that has bolted.
I'm not asking for much - just elite speed, endurance, tackling and skill level from all of our players.
Size comes before strength. Wouldn't ruck McKay at 19. Kreuzer and Casboult will ruck for sure. That's actually been the our best combo for while anyway. Kreuzer tends to ruck much more and plays alot better while Casbout gets a chance to build his confidence by marking around the ground, where he seems do alot better. Reckon one of our defenders will go forward with McKay as we can play all of Rowe, Marchbank, Weitering and Plowman in defence.
Is Casboult the KPF closer to bridging the gap to Phillips as a ruck option, than Phillips is as a Ruck closing the gap to Casboult as a KPF?
I'm not asking for much - just elite speed, endurance, tackling and skill level from all of our players.
You want every Carlton player to be a Dangerfield, you want a team full of superstars. Teams like that do not exist!
I'm happy to have two or three superstars surrounded by committed and skilled quality grunts.
Is Casboult the KPF closer to bridging the gap to Phillips as a ruck option, than Phillips is as a Ruck closing the gap to Casboult as a KPF?
I don't think Casboult will ever get close to Phillips when it comes to the ability to win ruck contests. However, Casboult is more effective around the ground in terms of providing a marking option and stopping opposition rucks from marking. Phillips as a KPF is simply a resting ruckman.
x2. I think you'd see the big Yank in action before young H gets rucked.
Tend to agree...young Harry is too important as a CHF to get banged up rucking, I think Sam Rowe will ruck part time and Alex Silvagni will play down back...
Whilst Flipper rehabilitates, does anyone think the Jones boy might get a run?(potentially to free up Levi)
I really can't buy the argument that you can't give a >200cm, >100kg 19 year old a run in the ruck because he might get hurt. If that's the case, you certainly wouldn't want him standing under a high ball in the hot spot or being picked up by Steven May ::)
I really can't buy the argument that you can't give a >200cm, >100kg 19 year old a run in the ruck because he might get hurt. If that's the case, you certainly wouldn't want him standing under a high ball in the hot spot or being picked up by Steven May ::)
As the saying goes, if you're good enough, you're old enough.
It's not about age, it's about readiness.
He can either do it or he can't. The catch is you won't find out till you try it, and it will change weekly based on matchup.
Whilst Flipper rehabilitates, does anyone think the Jones boy might get a run?(potentially to free up Levi)
Wouldn't surprise me.
The risk with McKay is that he is not even 20 yet, and we know that good rucks are usually not much chop until they are 24 or 25. Prior to that they are generally someone's rag-doll.
Why would we risk further injury like a PCL on a kid who is recovering from back stress fractures? Especially when we have a list full of 199cm+ types who in terms of being KPPs are not classed in the same league as McKay.
But go right ahead, let someone who monsters capable players like a Mumford, Grundy or Hickey get some pre-season practice on the kid. Perhaps Paddy Ryder can get some valuable game time up against him, or even the comeback kid Maric and his direct opponent Nankervis!
These "seasoned rucks" do not treat the pre-season contest on a game by game basis, they are trying to end their opponent for the future of the season. Good ruck work is ruck work done early! ;)
In 2005 I sat with a colleague at Box Hill oval to watch her 18 year old nephew play in the ruck against the O'hAilpin brothers. He was giving up 7-8cm and 5-10kg but was a key factor in Box Hill's win and was promoted to the Hawthorn side for the next game.
I suspect that Hawthorn didn't want to jeopardise the playing career of their potential 200+ game key forward. I also suspect that they knew exactly what they were doing when they played a first year player in the ruck against two older, taller, heavier, stronger and unpredictable opponents.
I'm not advocating playing McKay as a permanent ruckman. However, if he is ready to play as a key forward against the likes of Steven May, he is ready to have a run in the ruck.
In 2005 I sat with a colleague at Box Hill oval to watch her 18 year old nephew play in the ruck against the O'hAilpin brothers. He was giving up 7-8cm and 5-10kg but was a key factor in Box Hill's win and was promoted to the Hawthorn side for the next game.
I suspect that Hawthorn didn't want to jeopardise the playing career of their potential 200+ game key forward. I also suspect that they knew exactly what they were doing when they played a first year player in the ruck against two older, taller, heavier, stronger and unpredictable opponents.
I'm not advocating playing McKay as a permanent ruckman. However, if he is ready to play as a key forward against the likes of Steven May, he is ready to have a run in the ruck.
Playing against someone like the O'Hailpin's in their first year of AFL is not the same as playing against Mumford or May at any time.
Roughie is no ordinary player, he wasn't coming off a season of lower back stress fractures and he did not ruck in his first AFL games but played as a tall forward/defender.
Looks like good news :
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-ruckman-daniel-gorringe-cleared-of-serious-achilles-injury-20170228-gumwmh.html
Looks like good news :
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-ruckman-daniel-gorringe-cleared-of-serious-achilles-injury-20170228-gumwmh.html
That's a relief for the poor bugger.
That's a relief for the poor bugger.
And for me as well. Don't like injuries at this time of year - actually not at any time. But you're on the back foot if too many players are done before R1.
And for me as well. Don't like injuries at this time of year - actually not at any time. But you're on the back foot if too many players are done before R1.
Truedat
Looks like good news :
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/carlton-ruckman-daniel-gorringe-cleared-of-serious-achilles-injury-20170228-gumwmh.html
Indeed! Hope he goes on to have a great season.
Mods/admins - I don't really know where to put this. Please feel free to move it, if required.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/ed-and-charlie-curnow-the-blue-brothers-20170224-gukljz.html
Of the blokes we recruited last year I hope we get a look at Polson, Kerr, Williamson, Macreadie and Alex Silvagni this week and next against Freo. Also like to see Pickett and Fisher given another go.
I'd love to see Pickett, Sumner and Lebois in the forward 50 together with Casboult crashing packs.
We'll need another marking option or two - Weitering and Charlie C / Jack S.
Gotta give Harry McKay another crack at it IMO. Reckon the next two pre-seasons games gives him a taste and some much needed continuity.
Marchbank. Say no more...
Ok, I'll say a little bit more. Hardly a big sample size, but he looks like an A grader. If that's what he becomes, then we had a win in the off season.
Pickett. Finally fit(ish). Showed a little bit of class, but we obviously need to see a bit more of him.
Big Harry. Looked willing, but not up to the pace of the game yet.
Zac. Looked zippy and keen and a decent kick of the aggot. Look fwd to see what he's got.
LeBois. Looked zippy and dangerous. Probably a low possession player most of the time, but with any luck develops like Eddie did.
SPS and the other first year players who didn't play. Plenty of time for the young fellas.
Smedts/Palmer. Seen 'em before, know what to expect. Solid players, nothing too special.
The main point of this post is to have a bit of a look at newbies to the club (I include Harry because he didn't play a senior game last year). Marchbank looks to be an improvement on Tuohey, and Walker hardly fired a shot last year, so we just need one more of the above to play good footy and we're in front from last year. And a few more like Charlie/SOJ/Cunningham/Byrne to improve and we'll be slightly better again.
That's all I'm really looking for in the JLT at this stage. I'd rather our youngsters show signs of being good players than our established players setting the world on fire in the pre-season. They'll be fine and dish up what we expect during the season proper, but we ain't going nowhere if our young fella's don't become good players.
Oh yeah, and what's the idea of having us play our first game against a side that's already had a preseason game??? Not that it matters, but I think preseason games are hard enough to judge as it is, and that doesn't help. Melbourne looked alright just quietly. They may have finally come out the other side. The biggest differences I could see between them and us was a couple of quality forwards with 3 seasons under their belts, and a pretty deep midfield full of high picks, now also with a few seasons under their belts.
I think we're still a way away from challenging, and need a few more good midfielders (via the draft, trade, or a sneaky surprise packet already within our ranks). And of course our young forwards need to develop into what we hope they will become.
No idea if he's ready for PS game, but I'm looking forward see how JG-M goes.
No idea if he's ready for PS game, but I'm looking forward see how JG-M goes.
Good point LN!
I'm a fan of young Jesse and I'd prefer to see him get a run before the likes of Alex Silvagni (we know Alex can play at AFL level). From what I've seen, Jesse is at least as well prepared for AFL footy as McKay, Lebois, Pickett, Fisher, etc. I guess the difference is that if Jesse makes a mistake, it's likely to end up with an opposition goal.
If Jesse does shape up as an AFL-standard key defender, we'll almost have an embarrassment of riches in defence.
Good point LN!
I'm a fan of young Jesse and I'd prefer to see him get a run before the likes of Alex Silvagni (we know Alex can play at AFL level). From what I've seen, Jesse is at least as well prepared for AFL footy as McKay, Lebois, Pickett, Fisher, etc. I guess the difference is that if Jesse makes a mistake, it's likely to end up with an opposition goal.
If Jesse does shape up as an AFL-standard key defender, we'll almost have an embarrassment of riches in defence.
Thanks DJC.
The very limited information I have makes me wonder how close he is to showing his wares. He also seems to have his head screwed on. I'd like to think he's picking up some good habits from Weiters at home too :))
Is he on the Rookie list?
If so, what are his options for PS and the season proper (as we already have one LTI)?
Cheers
Is he on the Rookie list?
If so, what are his options for PS and the season proper (as we already have one LTI)?
Yes, he's a second year rookie.
We have two on the LTI list; Byrne and Phillips but Phillips is supposed to be back in the first couple of the weeks of the season. Jesse also has some tough competition for an upgrade, if the club decides to pull that trigger, with Alex Silvagni and Sheehan pushing for a spot.
There's nothing stopping him from getting a run in the next two weeks, apart from form.
I may be reading too much into it, but it seems to me that Weitering wouldn't be sharing a house with the Hyphen unless the latter has a future.
I like JGM too and would like to see him played but I think Alex Silvagni might get the nod over him initially because of his experience and he has the right surname.. ;)
Thanks again DJC
I forgot about young Byrne. We certainly are shaping up with some real quality down back.
I have been known to read too much into, well, just about everything CFC. But hey, that's what makes us top notch supporters right ^-^
Here's hoping some of our fanciful ideas materialize.
I have a sneaky feeling that a very long game is being played... we will need three very big defenders in about 4 years time and suspect that JGM is a significant part of that planning.
I have a sneaky feeling that a very long game is being played... we will need three very big defenders in about 4 years time and suspect that JGM is a significant part of that planning.
I agree with the positive outlook for JGM, I've watched him enough to see he has something, maybe lacks aerobic capacity. But we don't want to keep kids on ice too long though, they can lose interest and leave! I'd love to see him get the 3rd or 4th KPD role provided they think his fitness is up to scratch.
But in fairness relative to my earlier opinions, I said the same thing about Gowers and he's cut!
I agree with the positive outlook for JGM, I've watched him enough to see he has something, maybe lacks aerobic capacity. But we don't want to keep kids on ice too long though, they can lose interest and leave! I'd love to see him get the 3rd or 4th KPD role provided they think his fitness is up to scratch.
But in fairness relative to my earlier opinions, I said the same thing about Gowers and he's cut!
Me too!
Perhaps the difference is that players with Gowers' attributes are easy to come by. Key defenders are a little harder to find and it makes sense to persevere when one shows potential.
Me too!
Perhaps the difference is that players with Gowers' attributes are easy to come by. Key defenders are a little harder to find and it makes sense to persevere when one shows potential.
We had very few in the 2s looking as hard at the contested football as Gowers, admittedly he wasn't consistent in his output.
But he's gone so we move on.
JGM played 14 VFL games last year, I don't recall him ever being in the best players.
He has just turned 20, I doubt he'll be retained unless he can earn 5-6 senior games this year.
I hope he can do it.