Our only chance to see the boys before the real stuff begins, we play the 'Aints at Carlton on Wednesday at 1905.
I haven't seen the team sheets yet, but apparently Alex Silvagni is a high probability of playing. A defence with Jones and Silvagni in it has a solid feel about it. Apparently Shaw is getting a chance to see if he can hold Docherty's spot. I am not so confident about that.
Our only chance to see the boys before the real stuff begins, we play the 'Aints at Carlton on Wednesday at 1905.
I haven't seen the team sheets yet, but apparently Alex Silvagni is a high probability of playing. A defence with Jones and Silvagni in it has a solid feel about it. Apparently Shaw is getting a chance to see if he can hold Docherty's spot. I am not so confident about that.
Thought OShea and Mullett would be well ahead of Shaw who is a ball butcher....I could see Shaw being used a onball tagger as he does have some run in his legs and can lay a tackle but the thought
of him playing on a Robbie Gray or anyone decent close to goal doesnt thrill me....
The fact he is playing though shows he is in consideration for round 1... :o
Agree on ACOS...solid is the word to describe him.......
Thought OShea and Mullett would be well ahead of Shaw who is a ball butcher....I could see Shaw being used a onball tagger as he does have some run in his legs and can lay a tackle but the thought
of him playing on a Robbie Gray or anyone decent close to goal doesnt thrill me....
The fact he is playing though shows he is in consideration for round 1... :o
Agree on ACOS...solid is the word to describe him.......
Would have to second that , Mullet I had in mind to take Doc posi and maybe Oshea , but not Shaw..... seems odd when you have these guys already these .Hope Mullet becomes our surprise packet from the draft
When are the squads announced?
A minute ago it seems! :o
Backs 20. Lachie Plowman 14. Liam Jones 22. Caleb Marchbank
Half-backs 6. Kade Simpson 23. Jacob Weitering 38. Ciaran Byrne
Centreline 18. Aaron Mullett 9. Patrick Cripps 39. Dale Thomas
Half-forwards 28. David Cuningham 30. Charlie Curnow 21. Jarrod Garlett
Forwards 46. Matthew Wright 10. Harry McKay 41. Levi Casboult
Followers 8. Matthew Kreuzer 3. Marc Murphy (C) 2. Paddy Dow
Interchange 13. Jed Lamb 7. Matthew Kennedy 4. Lochie O'Brien
1. Jack Silvagni 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton 33. Jarrod Pickett
35. Ed Curnow 25. Zac Fisher
Emergencies 27. Matthew Lobbe 31. Tom Williamson 29. Cameron Polson
24. Cam O'Shea
Whoever provided Crash with his inside info seems to be somewhat unreliable........ ;)
Interesting both clubs have named strong squads, could get a little willing!
Interesting both clubs have named strong squads, could get a little willing!
the thing that i noticed last year was a very slow start to the year. the season was over almost as soon as it began. understandable considering still trying to blood players and get a feel for them i suppose. this time it looks like they want to get cracking from the get-go. i'm hoping they get off to a good start, even though it is only JLT. i would almost call that the starting side for round 1. i hope they pretty much play the side they want to take into R1 in both matches. get them gelling together and cherry ripe for R1. no more trialing wacky ideas and mucking around. the boys should be serious right now.
i agreed with gifting games last year, i thought it was a good idea considering so many kids and wanting to get games into them. now that's done and most of the dead wood are gone, I say play the best side every week, and play every week like it matters, including JLT. the boys need to start developing the winning culture as of Wednesday.
When are the squads announced?
A minute ago it seems! :o
Backs 20. Lachie Plowman 14. Liam Jones 22. Caleb Marchbank
Half-backs 6. Kade Simpson 23. Jacob Weitering 38. Ciaran Byrne
Centreline 18. Aaron Mullett 9. Patrick Cripps 39. Dale Thomas
Half-forwards 28. David Cuningham 30. Charlie Curnow 21. Jarrod Garlett
Forwards 46. Matthew Wright 10. Harry McKay 41. Levi Casboult
Followers 8. Matthew Kreuzer 3. Marc Murphy (C) 2. Paddy Dow
Interchange 13. Jed Lamb 7. Matthew Kennedy 4. Lochie O'Brien
1. Jack Silvagni 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton 33. Jarrod Pickett
35. Ed Curnow 25. Zac Fisher
Emergencies 27. Matthew Lobbe 31. Tom Williamson 29. Cameron Polson
24. Cam O'Shea
Seems we're fair-dinkum. Gotta like that. Bring on Wednesday evening.
i also like Ciaran Byrne on the back flank. he's been my Simmo replacement all along (now Doc's replacement for 2018 unfortunately). he is pretty creative, and has a way of finding a path through the middle of the ground. just hope no more major injuries and he gets a chance to show what he can do - and that he can step up to being a good, solid, consistent senior player.
No Tommy W?
I guess they need to trial new guys like Mullet and Garlett. Reckon Garlett will be a gem.
Don't care about form or result - just no injuries please.
With AFLX shortening the preseason to 2 games most clubs have named their best 22 for this round.
I agree. Our guys need as much time as possible playing with each other.
Good to see Mullet getting first crack at it.
Hmm no Darcy Lang...
Classy half-forward Jack Billings and key forward Josh Bruce are the only regulars from last season who weren’t included in the 30-man squad on Monday, with Billings recovering from a minor hamstring strain and Bruce building his match fitness following a knee arthroscope.
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2018-02-26/jlt1-saints-name-near-fullstrength-squad (http://www.saints.com.au/news/2018-02-26/jlt1-saints-name-near-fullstrength-squad)
Hmm no Darcy Lang...
Had an injured ankle for a month Thry
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2018-02-26/jlt1-saints-name-near-fullstrength-squad (http://www.saints.com.au/news/2018-02-26/jlt1-saints-name-near-fullstrength-squad)
Be interesting with Dow and OBrien vs Coffield and Clark...Saints are not that great IMO apart from a couple of bogey players like Jack Stevens, Membrey who seem to like playing us, glad Billings is
out too. Very winnable game IMO and I expect a decent showing.....
Had an injured ankle for a month Thry
he knows that full well! ::)
Be interesting with Dow and OBrien vs Coffield and Clark...Saints are not that great IMO apart from a couple of bogey players like Jack Stevens, Membrey who seem to like playing us, glad Billings is
out too. Very winnable game IMO and I expect a decent showing.....
Agreed EB1.
Billings always plays like a man possessed against us...
I'm keen to see the new recruits, the draftees and the Garlett types, and their impact. And whether we will play a more attacking style.
And Big H, the 2018 monster version, in full flight.
They're going to find it hard to man up Levi, Big H and Charlie....
Carlisle will have to take Big H (do they have any other really tall defenders?), makes life a lot easier for Levi having two other key targets.
Carlisle will have to take Big H (do they have any other really tall defenders?), makes life a lot easier for Levi having two other key targets.
I think that’s why we need to look at the 3 talls. None are superstars (yet) 2 are still learning the game. Giving 1 of them the chance to line up on the 3rd banana gives them a chance to take advantage. Hopefully the 3 have been working on leading patterns.
Are members free??
I think that’s why we need to look at the 3 talls. None are superstars (yet) 2 are still learning the game. Giving 1 of them the chance to line up on the 3rd banana gives them a chance to take advantage. Hopefully the 3 have been working on leading patterns.
That is going to be crucial. If Teague is up to the job, we should have more system in attack and our three talls will complement each other rather than competing.
Looking forward to my 1st game at Princes Park!! It's only taken 40+ years!
I'm happy to see we've named a near full strength side, I hope to see some of the others in the VFL game prior too.
Dow looks like he's got first crack at replacing Gibbs. Remarkable.
Hope Samo is fully fit despite his injury. Hope Harry goes well.
Dow looks like he's got first crack at replacing Gibbs. Remarkable.
Hope Samo is fully fit despite his injury. Hope Harry goes well.
If Dow is displacing SPS then we must have a special.
Are members free??
Yes
On the 3 talls, I think more often than not it can cost you dearly on the rebound so I will be interested to see what happens in this instance, whether Harry and Cas can put enough pressure on the rebounding defenders to ensure their positive forward input isn't countered by a surplus of rebounding attacks from those defenders.
I hope that combo works, I would much prefer to see one of the 2 biggest guys playing quite a bit away from goals and think that is what will happen and it will almost certainly have to be Cas who plays further afield. This might not be an issue as he looks leaner this preseason. I doubt they would get H playing CHF with the injuries he has had, I think they would want to first just ensure he is up to the pace of AFL from FF.
Edit: The more I think about it, i think Cas will play forward and Curnow isn't really a 'tall'. So this might well work.
I am surprised Tommy, Cam P and Harrison were unable to make the side.
Members are free, subject to capacity.
Get there early!!
We'd want to put in a good showing with that squad. No excuses.
Keen to see the next phase in our ball movement and offensive system.
We'd want to put in a good showing with that squad. No excuses.
Keen to see the next phase in our ball movement and offensive system.
Bookies?
Head to Head
Wednesday 28/02/2018
19:10 Carlton v St Kilda Markets (92)
Carlton 2.36 St Kilda 1.60
Bookies?
Head to Head
Wednesday 28/02/2018
19:10 Carlton v St Kilda Markets (92)
Carlton 2.36 St Kilda 1.60
If people are stupid enough to bet on a match in which the coaches might arbitrarily decide to place only 17 players on the field, good luck to them! :o
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/he-has-a-bit-of-bravado-blues-hope-harry-mckay-can-make-the-jump-20180227-p4z1we.html (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/he-has-a-bit-of-bravado-blues-hope-harry-mckay-can-make-the-jump-20180227-p4z1we.html)
McKay has put muscle on what was a lean build - he is listed at 95 kilograms - and is said to be proud of this development.
"A picture was taken up on the Gold Coast (at training camp). We are not sure about the picture - it made him look massive - but he keeps showing it to everyone," Teague joked.
"He is pretty happy with that picture. I am surprised he is not handing out signed pictures of it."
8) 8)
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/he-has-a-bit-of-bravado-blues-hope-harry-mckay-can-make-the-jump-20180227-p4z1we.html (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/he-has-a-bit-of-bravado-blues-hope-harry-mckay-can-make-the-jump-20180227-p4z1we.html)
8) 8)
Be interesting with Jake Carlisle likely to take big Harry...wonder if the bad blood with Marc Murphy might re-surface and how that affects proceedings....
Just pretend to inject yourself, that should stop any yap from Carlisle.
Just pretend to inject yourself, that should stop any yap from Carlisle.
I suppose you could just wipe some of the boundary line or 50m arc under your nose as well! ;D
Maybe Carlton fans should give him the Hitler moustache sign with their index finger!
Every time he went near the pill I'd be telling him about the nearby white lines. :o
If people are stupid enough to bet on a match in which the coaches might arbitrarily decide to place only 17 players on the field, good luck to them! :o
Yes people are that stupid.
Whoever provided Crash with his inside info seems to be somewhat unreliable........ ;)
Must have been on illegal substances.
Is anyone going to go tomorrow?? I'm thinking about it.
Dow looks like he's got first crack at replacing Gibbs. Remarkable.
Hope Samo is fully fit despite his injury. Hope Harry goes well.
What was Samo's injury jeza?
I think that side is strong, as are our opponents. My guess is we'll use these couple of games to test run the newbies whilst enabling synergy to develop, and systems to be tested. I'm not worried about w-l so much as assessing and adapting. Bring on r1.....
All the very best of luck to all those donning the famous Navy Guernsey for the first time. Be proud.
Go Blues
Wednesday 28 February
SummaryMin 22Max 31Cool change developing.Chance of any rain: 10%
Melbourne area
Mostly sunny. Winds northerly 30 to 50 km/h shifting west to southwesterly 30 to 50 km/h in the middle of the day before tending southwesterly 20 to 30 km/h at night.
What was Samo's injury jeza?
I think that side is strong, as are our opponents. My guess is we'll use these couple of games to test run the newbies whilst enabling synergy to develop, and systems to be tested. I'm not worried about w-l so much as assessing and adapting. Bring on r1.....
All the very best of luck to all those donning the famous Navy Guernsey for the first time. Be proud.
Go Blues
Not sure - it was mentioned a few weeks ago that he was on restricted duties. Awesome to see he's named in this team though which looks like our round 1 team to me.
Tough job cutting back the bench from 8 to 4... plus Lang to come back. Real depth.
Is ASOS injured at all? If fit he's a definite starter for me - and in the leadership team.
Of this 8 who drops out?
13. Jed Lamb 7. Matthew Kennedy 4. Lochie O'Brien
1. Jack Silvagni 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton 33. Jarrod Pickett
35. Ed Curnow 25. Zac Fisher
Garlett and Pickett have to play in my opinion. Easy to drop your forward pockets but we can't go through another season with slow forward pockets like Wright, Curnow, Thomas, etc.
Ed Curnow may struggle to get a game round 1. Jed Lamb? O'Brien? With Lang and ASOS fit you may have to drop 6 from this team. Really hard to do.
Wednesday 28 February
SummaryMin 22Max 31Cool change developing.Chance of any rain: 10%
Melbourne area
Mostly sunny. Winds northerly 30 to 50 km/h shifting west to southwesterly 30 to 50 km/h in the middle of the day before tending southwesterly 20 to 30 km/h at night.
Can confirm - very windy today.
Ed Curnow may struggle to get a game round 1. Jed Lamb? O'Brien? With Lang and ASOS fit you may have to drop 6 from this team. Really hard to do.
Ed Curnow will be one of the first selections if he is fit.
Ed Curnow will be one of the first selections if he is fit.
Agree.....you need some good Indians to supplement your Chiefs and Ed is a role model and leader at the club....
Of this 8 who drops out?
13. Jed Lamb 7. Matthew Kennedy 4. Lochie O'Brien
1. Jack Silvagni 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton 33. Jarrod Pickett
35. Ed Curnow 25. Zac Fisher
This is where I think Dale Thomas is in trouble unless his output lifts significantly.
Of the 8, Curnow and SPS are definites, no question.
Who misses out, noting Willo also needs to be in the mix? And Doc again down the track....
Of the listed 18, Mullet, Byrne, Thomas you'd think are on the fringe, so go into the maybe pool.
Is there a need for SoJ with Levi, Harry and Charlie up forward? Does SoJ get a game ahead of Garlett (or Pickett for that matter), both of whom offer speed and more versatility?
I think he'll have to show serious form in the 2s.
Matt Kennedy you'd think is needed to give Crippa some physicality in the guts so he's an in in my book.
Ditto Fisher as an inside/outside type who can run, carry and deliver with skill.
Then there's O'Brien who also gives great outside run and wicked leftie foot skills. But the young fella is unlikely to get a gig ahead of Fisher, Pickett or Garlett at this stage imo.
You'd have to think Lamb will need to fight for a spot through the twos.
As Bolts has said, form will dictate selection.
Ditto Fisher as an inside/outside type who can run, carry and deliver with skill.
My mail is Fisher is struggling a bit with 2nd year blues, despite some of the recent player interviews that suggest he is flying.
1st year players get as close to a golden run as is possible in the AFL, opponents and team-mates just haven't seen enough of them yet. But by their 2nd year it's all documented and recorded, your tricks are out of the bag and they know your weakness. Even your own coaches word up team-mates on what to do to push your training so you get better or fail.
I've had a chat with a couple of past AFL players, guys on the fringe, and they have both mentioned how brutal your own team-mates can be at training. They put you to the sword to make sure when you're out there standing side by side you won't fold. Nobody wants to do the work and be let down by one of their own, it's the most team deflating thing that can happen. The amount of competition and pressure coming from within a club is a shock to new AFL recruits.
But it's not a surprise if true, there is a lot of work to be done in your 2nd pre-season, strength and weight gains are a must, addressing shortcomings in your own game, learning tactics to deal with the increased opposition scrutiny in your 2nd season. It's so common for kids to stall as they get the long term stuff in place.
Add to that Fisher's natural advantage was his speed and skills, but we've picked up a bunch of fast inside types over the last pre-season giving him some significant competition for a spot.
But I have no doubt if he can remain durable he'll be a long term player.
2nd year blues in February?
Of course in the wings are Macreadie and Polson.
I think Macreadie has the tools and running ability to play a HBF/winger role. But again does he displace a Garlett type?
His height (195cm) can only be a bonus?
A versatile player, Macreadie has been used predominantly down back, but was tried as a midfielder and on a wing throughout the 2016 season.
Standing at 195cm, Macreadie reads the play well, shuts opponents out of the game and excels at running off half-back and finding a target. He is a good user of the football, recording the highest kicking efficiency of all TAC Cup player since 2015 with an average of over 15 disposals per game.
Polson, Murph's twin, is now in his 3rd season - turns 20 in March. From all reports he's quick but where does he fit in/who does he displace...?
Of course in the wings are Macreadie and Polson.
I think Macreadie has the tools and running ability to play a HBF/winger role. But again does he displace a Garlett type?
His height (195cm) can only be a bonus?
Polson, Murph's twin, is now in his 3rd season - turns 20 in March. From all reports he's quick but where does he fit in/who does he displace...?
re: Polson...might replace Murphy?....I think Murphy might think about free agency.....have to be a good offer to get him to move though.
I like Macreadie but I think he is more a lock down defender type rather than a player who can play further up the ground
Is anyone going to go tomorrow?? I'm thinking about it.
I'm going.
re: Polson...might replace Murphy?....I think Murphy might think about free agency.....have to be a good offer to get him to move though.
I like Macreadie but I think he is more a lock down defender type rather than a player who can play further up the ground
you may well be right EB, but defenders is one thing we have plenty of - and quality ones at that. i was just thinking out loud as to where he might cement himself a spot....
...........and then there's Nick Graham. Obviously just making up the numbers.
Of course in the wings are Macreadie and Polson.
I think Macreadie has the tools and running ability to play a HBF/winger role. But again does he displace a Garlett type?
His height (195cm) can only be a bonus?
Polson, Murph's twin, is now in his 3rd season - turns 20 in March. From all reports he's quick but where does he fit in/who does he displace...?
Polson is entering his 2nd season. I think he'll get another season after this to prove himself, but he looks like a long shot at this stage.
yep 2nd season, my bad....
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2018-02-27/teague-bluebaggers-should-be-excited (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2018-02-27/teague-bluebaggers-should-be-excited)
I've just checked the TV guide, and this game doesn't appear to be on free-to-air anywhere, not even Melbourne - can anyone confirm ?
Thanks
I've just checked the TV guide, and this game doesn't appear to be on free-to-air anywhere, not even Melbourne - can anyone confirm ?
Thanks
All the JLT is exclusively Foxtel.
I'm assuming if you have decent Broadband you can pay to watch it on the Foxtel-Now App.
I think you can subscribe for a 30 day free trial of Foxtel-Now, but I am not sure if the JLT is included in the trial. The trap is the sport is a premium pack costing about $30/mth, on top of a basic pack which starts at $15/mth, however I believe you can start and stop at will without penalty. So if you get the basic you can buy a months worth of sport when the time is right.
One reservation I have, even with NBN 100MB Fibre, I find live streaming quality is pretty poor from Australian services. I get better image quality from the UK or USA that I get from local media providers.
I've just checked the TV guide, and this game doesn't appear to be on free-to-air anywhere, not even Melbourne - can anyone confirm ?
Thanks
If you are a Telstra customer Paul you could watch it free of charge on the AFL Live App but of course max image size is a 5" phone screen.
Thanks LP and cookie, appreciate your responses. Neither option is applicable to me unfortunately, so I might have to just check scores on the AFL website and the in game thread on here. Radio may be another option, although at this writing, the AFL website lists the radio broadcast as TBC. Very helpful.
Ed on Ed.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2018-02-27/curnow-eager-to-take-on-saints (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2018-02-27/curnow-eager-to-take-on-saints)
If you are a Telstra customer Paul you could watch it free of charge on the AFL Live App but of course max image size is a 5" phone screen.
Is that still the case Cookie? The AFLW is full tablet size. I will just a tad pizzed off if I have to get the magnifying glass out again.
Is that still the case Cookie? The AFLW is full tablet size. I will just a tad pizzed off if I have to get the magnifying glass out again.
I think it is still the case. Some non-live videos are full tablet size I've noticed, but I think the live broadcasts are shrunk down. However I will check again tonight via my tablet. I think it is due to licensing arrangements with Foxtel.
https://crownbet.com.au/support/betting-info/afl-live-vision...
Dont know if they are doing JLT but accounts are free.
Wouldnt mind seeing if that can be Chromecast to get the picture format larger...
Is that still the case Cookie? The AFLW is full tablet size. I will just a tad pizzed off if I have to get the magnifying glass out again.
The difference is that AFLW is part of live pass, it is just free to watch.
A good 1st qtr for northern, kicking 3 goals to 2, I can actually see a score board.
Kerridge and Graham looking ok in the middle, Polson is too small for the same role.
Gus Schuey is looking good down back and is the guy you want to give the ball to coming out the back of a pack, he plays that receiving role quite well. Harry Mac made a couple of errors.
O'She is a freak with his marking.
TDK is playing full forward and crashed a pack. His dad is sitting a few meters away and told a few of us we weren't allowed to say anything bad about him!
Harry McKay in the 2's ?
A good 1st qtr for northern, kicking 3 goals to 2, I can actually see a score board.
Kerridge and Graham looking ok in the middle, Polson is too small for the same role.
Gus Schuey is looking good down back and is the guy you want to give the ball to coming out the back of a pack, he plays that receiving role quite well. Harry Mac made a couple of errors.
O'She is a freak with his marking.
TDK is playing full forward and crashed a pack. His dad is sitting a few meters away and told a few of us we weren't allowed to say anything bad about him!
My sons girlfriend worked with TDK's mum and was told that lacerated kidney he had was very bad and he lost a bit of confidence so thats a great sign
if he is crashing packs....nice kid is TDK and I hope he has a good career...
Harry Mac may need another nickname. Given there is an actual Harry Mac playing at the club.
Harry McKay in the 2's ?
I'm guessing that's Harrison McReadie
I'm guessing that's Harrison McReadie
Oh ok. I gotta get with it !
Cheers
A good 1st qtr for northern, kicking 3 goals to 2, I can actually see a score board.
Kerridge and Graham looking ok in the middle, Polson is too small for the same role.
Gus Schuey is looking good down back and is the guy you want to give the ball to coming out the back of a pack, he plays that receiving role quite well. Harry Mac made a couple of errors.
O'She is a freak with his marking.
TDK is playing full forward and crashed a pack. His dad is sitting a few meters away and told a few of us we weren't allowed to say anything bad about him!
cheers Amers.
2nd qtr was a shocker, Graham's disposal was horrible.
Scores level at half time, they finally got the score board working!
2nd qtr was a shocker, Graham's disposal was horrible.
Scores level at half time, they finally got the score board working!
Huge thanks. Your updates are really appreciated.
Huge thanks. Your updates are really appreciated.
Yes, thanks from me too. Sounds like Nicky G is doing his usual one-step-forward-one-step-back routine. Shame.
Windy as buggery. Tonight's game is not going to be great by either team I'm thinking.
Harry Mac may need another nickname. Given there is an actual Harry Mac playing at the club.
Young 'arry is blast from the past. :D
3rd qtr not much better than the 2nd, Graham kicked a goal and we scored another from a nice intercept mark at half back, ending in a running goal from 50m.
Lobbe has played well in the ruck across the game so far, Saints seem to more orgsnized as a team.
We did keep them goalless that qtr to be 11 points up at the break.
Windy as buggery. Tonight's game is not going to be great by either team I'm thinking.
wind due to moderate and swing to the south anytime....
Game ended in a draw, with a couple of soft goals to the 'aints, 1 thanks to the umpires.
The high light, although not spectacular was probably Gus Shuey's game. It was also nice to see the new Irish boy (Cillain ?) pull on the navy blue for the 1st time, he played as a defender and didn't look out of place.
Now for the main game!
Casboult, straight through the middle from 48m....During practice!
Scores:
Northern Blues 7 - 14 - 56
Sandringham 7 - 14 - 56
GOALS: Johnston 2, Williams 2, De Koning, Graham, Penrith.
DISPOSALS: Graham 30, Kerridge 26, O'Shea 16, Williams 15, Macreadie 14.
Some thing have not changed. :(
Casboult, straight through the middle from 48m....During practice!
He's worries me more from 28m out..lol.
15 seconds in and Dwayne Russell has already called his first mistake. Thats a record, even for him.
FWIW, Pickett is NOT a new recruit.
Jones, our rock of defense.
DISPOSALS: Graham 25, Kerridge 18, Macreadie 13, Schumacher 12, O'Shea 12
This was at 3/4 time.
Alas, it looked like Schumacher ran out of gas. Still, can't complain about his 1st run. Hopefully better to come.
Our forwardline is working well midfield is doing double duty.
2 early goals: Kreuzer and Cripps.
Another goal to Cripps.
Make that 4. When was the last time we kicked 4 in the first 1o minutes, and kept the opposition scoreless ? PS or not.
Listening on the radio via the AFL website, sounds like there are 20 people in the crowd.
Great start, but looks a good breeze, so need to make sure we carry this right to the end of the term
2 early goals: Kreuzer and Cripps.
Make that 3: MK Crippa Crippa
I'll say no more about goal kicking :-X
Early signs of teamwork looks good.
Hope Cunningham is ok.
Go Blues
Make that 4. When was the last time we kicked 4 in the first 1o minutes, and kept the opposition scoreless ? PS or not.
Listening on the radio via the AFL website, sounds like there are 20 people in the crowd.
Simmo from outside 50! Wind? What wind?
Make that 4. When was the last time we kicked 4 in the first 1o minutes, and kept the opposition scoreless ? PS or not.
Listening on the radio via the AFL website, sounds like there are 20 people in the crowd.
We kicked more than 4 in the first 10 min 2 weeks ago...lol.
The opposition kicked 6 though.
Murphy tried to steer it with the breeze and missed a fairly easy set shot. But then again nothing is that easy when it is this windy
We are moving the ball much quicker so far
Saints score their first goal of the game
I think we would like another goal here, I would think it looks to be about a 3-4 goal breeze
Point to Pickett. We are 20 points up.
7 tackles in our forward 50, to 2 for the 'Aints. But disposals are equaling up.
Big mark from Harry and converts
H slots his first! You beauty!
Make that 3: MK Crippa Crippa
I'll say no more about goal kicking :-X
Early signs of teamwork looks good.
Hope Cunningham is ok.
Go Blues
Ok. Just one more thing.
.... Big H goal ;)
Ah Levi.
Tough miss from Casboult, breeze never really steered it, but he went too wide anyway.
Perfect start, with or without the breeze
Could Teague be our Caracella ?
Carlton 5 - 3 - 33
St Kilda 1 - 0 - 6
Marchbank 7 possessions.
Simpson & Murphy 6 possessions.
Harrys mark & goal will really help his confidence.
Harrys mark & goal will really help his confidence.
The pic of his mark shows heaps. Now for more!
He might be Paul, but to be fair be looked good all over the park, lots of playing on, whilst still holding our defensive structures.
The key is whether we can perform this quarter.
In that quarter the blues defenders clearly were playing in front of the Saints forwards, not too worried about he ball going out the back. In this quarter, we have to be careful we don't get caught under the ball in defense as there will be a lot more penetration.
But overall, we can only judge the first quarter and there was a hell of a lot to like in that quarter
Also Jones was awesome again and we need him to have another great quarter here
40 seconds into the 2nd and Garlett has a goal!
Gotta like Big H down to crumbing Garlett for his first in navy blue.
Jones just made an error there against Membrey, when the mark and for sure should have been spoiling the ball.
That is okay, 1-1 this quarter
Membury kicks a goal. Damn.
The guys on the radio were talking about Pickett SPS and Garlett in the forward line. This, plus the handy score in the 1st q, all starts to feel very 2011. I like it, as one may expect.
The guys on the radio were talking about Pickett SPS and Garlett in the forward line. This, plus the handy score in the 1st q, all starts to feel very 2011. I like it, as one may expect.
Have they mentioned the breeze? Don't get too encouraged by the scoreline until there is at least 1 quarter each with it. ;)
Paddy Dow! First goal in Blue.
Have they mentioned the breeze? Don't get too encouraged by the scoreline until there is at least 1 quarter each with it. ;)
They've mentioned it on and off. But you make a fair point. I'm long overdue for a Ratts pump up - you know how it is. :D
Some nice signs from some of our hopefull. Nice energy out there had a few smothers always a good sign of desperation
3 behinds for the 'Aints!
Really good quarter into the breeze so far
A few errors being made while we are trying to take the game on, but happy to see the intent
Goal to 'Aints. :(
Another to the Saints, Liam Jones error there, tried to do to much and should have gone longer
Goal to 'Aints. :(
2 quick goals. They are trying to come back. Our defence is under pressure.
Hell YES!!
Scrappy, but a late goal to Matty Wright.
Charlie needs to try and not do 'too much' fancy stuff
Matty Wright! Just what we needed!
Saints have a shot after the siren for a point and Blues 21 points up
Let a few goals back in late takes some shine of a good first half. Promising efforts , really looking for each other and some nice individual efforts, seems encouraging
We have hardly kicked it backwards so far... I like it.
Another to the Saints, Liam Jones error there, tried to do to much and should have gone longer
Levi's error in the first instance. had the mark on the wing could have put it close to our 50m line, chose to kick it sideways/backwards to Jines....
Thomas has more tricks than Lamb. Can’t see where Jed will get a game. Pickett has locked in his spot, Matty Wright needs to be there and Garlett just needs game time.
Half time and the Blues are 21 points in front.
Carlton 8 - 4 - 52
St Kilda 4 - 7 - 31
Marchbank 15 possessions.
Cripps 14 possessions
Ed Curnow 12 possessions.
We have hardly kicked it backwards so far... I like it.
Woo Hoo - progress.
We have hardly kicked it backwards so far... I like it.
Definitely trying to move the ball forward quickly despite a few skill errors but very promising.
When Picket & Gareth build some chemistry they are going to be unbelievable!
Levi's error in the first instance. had the mark on the wing could have put it close to our 50m line, chose to kick it sideways/backwards to Jines....
I agree, but also Jones (who has been close to best on ground) still made a fundamental error in that case as he tried to drill a ball just over the head of the saints player and it cost a goal.
Jones has been excellent, but also made 2 errors that quarter that resulted in goals. That can happen though he has been excellent on the intercept
When Picket & Gareth build some chemistry they are going to be unbelievable!
Yeah I just wish Pickett has of had a shot on goal after the 4-5 bounces he took on that scintillating run.
It was a bit the same last year, like he was worried about pulling the trigger.
Hopefully he learns to back himself in that situation, he is VERY quick
Yeah I just wish Pickett has of had a shot on goal after the 4-5 bounces he took on that scintillating run.
It was a bit the same last year, like he was worried about pulling the trigger.
Hopefully he learns to back himself in that situation, he is VERY quick
Sometimes he needs to be a little more selfish. Maybe it will come with confidence.
Mullet and Byrne need to do better, the former has been knocked off the ball to easy and Byrne looks a bit shaky when he is defending near goal and having to run back.....
Pickett...looks good just has to know when his last bounce has to be and then steady...
Kruezer been great in the ruck and I have liked Marchbanks game....
Jones some errors but also some great defending...
Saints look lost without Riewoldt.....
Thomas has more tricks than Lamb. Can’t see where Jed will get a game. Pickett has locked in his spot, Matty Wright needs to be there and Garlett just needs game time.
Spot on! Lamb one of the first outs for mine, which is a good sign coz even he hasn’t been terrible.
Encouraging half of footy against a strong saints side.
At one stage our disposal efficiency was 75 or so...
The youngsters, H included, don't look out of place.
In fact, I'm sure Dow would get Gibbs nod of approval for his first outing in the number 4.
Go Blues
Encouraging half of footy against a strong saints side.
At one stage our disposal efficiency was 75 or so...
The youngsters, H included, don't look out of place.
In fact, I'm sure Dow would get Gibbs nod of approval for his first outing in the number 4.
Go Blues
Dow is in 2 LoveNavy, LOB in 4 ;)
We're on target to score 100 points, I'd like to see more of our forwards hit the scoreboard in the 2nd half.
Mullet and Byrne need to do better, the former has been knocked off the ball to easy and Byrne looks a bit shaky when he is defending near goal and having to run back.....
Pickett...looks good just has to know when his last bounce has to be and then steady...
Kruezer been great in the ruck and I have liked Marchbanks game....
Jones some errors but also some great defending...
Saints look lost without Riewoldt.....
Riewoldt WAS their forward line. Around everything orbited. Now they are lacking that. Can't say I'm disappointed.
Mullet and Byrne need to do better, the former has been knocked off the ball to easy and Byrne looks a bit shaky when he is defending near goal and having to run back.....
Pickett...looks good just has to know when his last bounce has to be and then steady...
Kruezer been great in the ruck and I have liked Marchbanks game....
Jones some errors but also some great defending...
Saints look lost without Riewoldt.....
Noticed that a couple of times EB and that was the knock on him at Nth. Hopefully he can improve on this.
A lot of whinging about the lights from the commentary team - must have complained about 10 times since I've been noticing.
The lights do look awful though.
Saints have started this quarter better. Moving it quickly and we have just seem a little hesitant for the first time
1st goal to Membury. Unrewarded efforts and they get a goal. Not so good.
Onya Levi.
Onya Levi.
Dow to Levi, who makes no errors this time!
Very quick response by Saints with an uncontested mark 30 out which was disappointing
Dow to Levi, who makes no errors this time!
Yes, that clearance that led to the goal sounded very clean on the radio.
Spot on! Lamb one of the first outs for mine, which is a good sign coz even he hasn’t been terrible.
Lamb and Mullet are both cooked IMO. Offering us little.
Can you smell what the Blues are cooking?
Horrible kick out of defense by O'Brien has cost us another goal.
Saints comfortably better this quarter
Bah. 8 points. Come on Blues.
Two goals for the 'Aints. They appear to have lifted.
Nice to see Dow clear and deliver, simple play easy result. We seem to have lost our way a little
Defence a bit wobbly atm, Saints coming hard.
We are not entering F50 so cleanly now.
Nice cameos from Dow but o'brown hasn't picked up the pace of senior footy. Cunningham has made far too many errors as well.
A man's gotta know his limitations....
Can anyone give their thoughts on Daisy's game ? Little mention of him to date.
Can anyone give their thoughts on Daisy's game ? Little mention of him to date.
Has been solid , some great pressure hand passes releasing players at the right time.
Old reliable steadies the ship.
Wright still our best forward IMO. Mr Reliable.
Has been solid , some great pressure hand passes releasing players at the right time.
Thanks Rob.
Some simple mistakes from Lamb , will cost him a place in the team this year if it continues. More pressure for spots this year
Jones getting a little wobbly after a great start.
Matty Wright sinks #2!
Defence definitely needs to tighten up.
Great tackle Garlett but looks like he popped his shoulder out , hard luck son
Garlett shoulder injury ? No way.
Great tackle Garlett - hope he's OK - looks like it!
Garlett shoulder injury ? No way.
Maybe not too bad after all, going off but has a smile hard to say , hope not to serious
We really need guys like Mullett and Silvagni to stand up. Too much is being left to too few.
Maybe not too bad after all, going off but has a smile hard to say , hope not to serious
Thanks Rob. Hopefully just a twinge. He looks like he could really be something.
Saints kicking a few into the breeze hope we can do the same. Defence a little disorganised
We really need to stop their mids getting the ball.
Dow after the siren ? And it's a GOAL
Dow after the siren ? And it's a GOAL
Onya Paddy.
Nice one Paddy! Very coolheaded.
shocking quarter, no work rate....
shocking quarter, no work rate....
We looked all at sea tbh - defence in a bit of chaos.
plenty of blokes have done sfa....too mNY.
Onya Paddy.
Just the thing we need for 3/4 time. Now to regroup.
We looked all at sea tbh - defence in a bit of chaos.
MIDFIELD MISSING....
MIDFIELD MISSING....
Yep. Just watching the review - Stephens indeed killed us.
Despite the wobbly quarter, still 20 points up. Not bad for a first hit out.
Saints with the wind in the last qtr, can we hold onto a 20 point lead?
NEWSFLASH
" The Saints to come home with the breeze in the last quarter" .
According to Dwayne Russell anyway.... he said it about TEN times in that quarter.
Yes, that clearance that led to the goal sounded very clean on the radio.
Twas beautiful Paul????
Dow is in 2 LoveNavy, LOB in 4 ;)
Yep. Realised that a little too late. Ooops.
Dow not so much O'Brein, really putting on a show.
Scrappy q3. Still I've seen enough to keep my spirits up for this early stage.
Garlett tackle was a beauty.
3/4 time and time for us to regroup. We need to!
Carlton 11 - 6 - 72
St Kilda 7 - 10 - 52
Possessions:
Marchbank (19), Cripps (18), E.Curnow (16), Murphy (15), Byrne (14).
Twas beautiful Paul????
Thanks Joe. Hopefully it'll part of the highlights package.
2 points to them quickly.
Mullet been terrible imo, he’s not the answer at HB on tonight’s form????
So impressed with Kruzer tonight really looks like he is happy playing
#2 for the Kreuz!
So impressed with Kruzer tonight really looks like he is happy playing
He just plugged another one. Just what we needed.
Mullet been terrible imo, he’s not the answer at HB on tonight’s form????
The team that came last delisted him, so I thought it may be in the "too good to be true" category.
Jimmy Bartel rated him the best of the delisted free agents - oh well...........
Docherty isn’t going to be easily replaced.
2 behinds to us.
Docherty isn’t going to be easily replaced.
No, not easy at all. A big Docherty shaped hole in our back line.
How and where do we fit Weitering into this side?
For team balance, we simply can't.
Or tackling has dropped off significantly after quarter time, while theirs has picked up.
How and where do we fit Weitering into this side?
For team balance, we simply can't.
Be bold. Trade him.
Jack's been quiet, but his goal now helps.
Jack's been quiet, but his goal now helps.
We have had a pretty well functioning forwardline which he has been a part of.
That means he has been working hard to make space available for the others.
If he was slacking off, there would be more contests inside 50.
Jack is ok. ;)
Wouldn't take much notice of JLT games.
Even though Dow missed that last goal, good to see a youngster having numerous shots at goal.
Goal to Carlisle. :(
Wouldn't take much notice of JLT games.
I also thought this before the game started, but wilted rather quickly.
"Desperation is a tender trap - it gets you every time."
Goal to Carlisle. :(
Wright gets another for them.
A win to the blues first for the year nice start
How and where do we fit Weitering into this side?
For team balance, we simply can't.
O’Shea is not going to be playing ahead of Weitering.
All over Gulshan Grover. For me lots to like - the only sour note is Garlett. Fingers crossed.
A win to the blues first for the year nice start
Yeah, better than a loss, but it's JLT.
We've won pre-season flags and finished last in the real deal.
A pretty good hit-out for the boys IMO. Not perfect but useful and the pleasant taste of a win.
Wouldn't take much notice of JLT games.
I’ve just cancelled my September holidays.
O’Shea is not going to be playing ahead of Weitering.
Oshea was not playing tonight
Interview with Dow was hit near the boundary line lost a front tooth. Mouth guard was in his sock. For a young player to loose a front tooth and still keep that composure sounds promising with his composure
We win. Not our best game, but we won it.
Carlton 13 - 11 - 89
St Kilda 9 - 13 - 67
Possessions:
Marchbank 25
Ed Curnow 24
Cripps 20
Murphy 19
Byrne, Fisher, Thomas 17
Oshea was not playing tonight
Good point!
He’d still fit in pretty easily.
We won the ruck, but lost clearances and centre clearances comfortably. We really need to be able to squash their better mids.
Interview with Dow was hit near the boundary line lost a front tooth. Mouth guard was in his sock. For a young player to loose a front tooth and still keep that composure sounds promising with his composure
Dow was very good and I liked the way he drifted forward and found space, kicks well on the run but like Cripps needs a bit of work on the set shots but he was impressive .
Obrien was ok and is a nice kick, Kennedy like his build was solid....
Not convinced on Mullett, skillful but very light in the contest.....
Marchbank was the standout IMO....marked well, good composure and thought he kicked the ball well....
How and where do we fit Weitering into this side?
For team balance, we simply can't.
If you cant find a spot for him in defence he plays forward in place of McKay at this point.
Good point!
He’d still fit in pretty easily.
I think Oshea is better than Mullet but the coach may be looking for a smaller defender given we have Weitering to come back and have ACOS also as backup,
most teams are playing smaller forwards so we need to get the balance right...
Interview with Dow was hit near the boundary line lost a front tooth. Mouth guard was in his sock. For a young player to loose a front tooth and still keep that composure sounds promising with his composure
Only problem is now we need to trade him to Collingwood
If you cant find a spot for him in defence he plays forward in place of McKay at this point.
I'd like to continue with Harry down forward.....he needs the work and development....
Only problem is now we need to trade him to Collingwood
Snuck that in when no one was looking MIO.
I think Oshea is better than Mullet but the coach may be looking for a smaller defender given we have Weitering to come back and have ACOS also as backup,
most teams are playing smaller forwards so we need to get the balance right...
Which is exactly why i think it will ruin our team balance with Weitering in the side.
Alex Silvagni is more flexible in terms of who he can play on. Weitering is tall, slow and can zone off, but if there isn't a tall/slow forward for him to play on...the opposition can just play through his man.
Jones is tall and quick.
Marchbank can play small if required.
Plowman generally plays small, but can play tall too.
Even A. Silvagni is tall and quick
If you cant find a spot for him in defence he plays forward in place of McKay at this point.
No. McKay is the great white hope up forward, he needs to play there. He is big enough and ugly enough to play with the big boys now, we just gotta force games into him.
I'd like to continue with Harry down forward.....he needs the work and development....
So would I. More than anything he needs game time at a senior level....just pointing out that Weitering plays whoever has to be squeezed out for him. ;)
Which is exactly why i think it will ruin our team balance with Weitering in the side.
Alex Silvagni is more flexible in terms of who he can play on. Weitering is tall, slow and can zone off, but if there isn't a tall/slow forward for him to play on...the opposition can just play through his man.
Jones is tall and quick.
Marchbank can play small if required.
Plowman generally plays small, but can play tall too.
Even A. Silvagni is tall and quick
No. McKay is the great white hope up forward, he needs to play there. He is big enough and ugly enough to play with the big boys now, we just gotta force games into him.
I agree finding a spot for Weitering vs less traditional forward lines will be more difficult.....Mckay will probably be the fall guy given Cripps appears set to play forward more along with Kruezer....Weitering might find himself more forward than expected...
No Weitering, SPS and little from Charlie and several others.
Cripps up forward. The bloke is a star.
Plenty of upside - and the umps were not on our side either...
Go Blues.
No Weitering, SPS and little from Charlie and several others.
Cripps up forward. The bloke is a star.
Plenty of upside - and the umps were not on our side either...
Go Blues.
Agree...Saints are meant to be top 8 material but look light on for leadership and really miss Riewoldt....I'd like to think we can finish higher than them...
Weitering missing may have given us a bit better balance as a few have alluded to.....think selection will be more important this year given you need to pick a team to suit your opposing team more and more rather than just picking a traditional 22 that play most games.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-02-28/jlt-match-report-carlton-v-st-kilda (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-02-28/jlt-match-report-carlton-v-st-kilda)
One thing we agree on Fly, Sniffers got an unbelievable run tonight, that deliberate in the last against SOJ was criminally bad.
Weiters absolutely is a lock to get back in this team. He is still better than Marchbank/Plowman and many others and in any case you would have him ahead of Mullet or O'Shea.
There is no chance that there is no spot for Weiters, the guy is going to be a gun
The final margin flattered the Saints.
We went to sleep in Q3 and they got quite a few goals from our blunders eg Jones And O'Brien.
If they're top 8, we're top 4!
Weiters absolutely is a lock to get back in this team. He is still better than Marchbank/Plowman and many others and in any case you would have him ahead of Mullet or O'Shea.
There is no chance that there is no spot for Weiters, the guy is going to be a gun
Yep
Dow played with a smile on his face tonight. Shame about his front tooth :(
That was Paddy's warm up RSN performance ;)
There were certainly some lackluster patches in the second half. All in all though a solid run against quality opposition. Only jlt and all that but a win for a young side is priceless. We had more players out than Saints yet we held our own. I love that we lost the turnover stat too and de remained reasonable. I hope these are all signs of the effectiveness of our preparation.
I hope Garlett is OK. He had a few flashes of brilliance and will be better for the run. I thought Kennedy was solid and Byrne worked his way into it.
Jonesy just continues to impress in defense. I hope the Carlton shop's got plenty of #14 merchandise. I also noticed how many of the guys looked (on tv) like they were giving instruction. Perhaps our leadership density really is increasing. That will make for a super learning environment for our newbies and youngsters.
Enjoy the tiny wins bluebaggers
We rotated 6 tonight vs Saints 8. It was our choice (Bolts likes to push them beyond limits preseason) which might account for a few of the fade out or them looking like they had fresher legs at times....because they did.
Not a fan of Weitering going forward tbh but that's where he'll likely go in view of the numerous defensive options we appear to have. Agree, the likely guy he would replace would be Harry who has played very little senior footy to date and may face further development in the NBs this year.
Weiters absolutely is a lock to get back in this team. He is still better than Marchbank/Plowman and many others and in any case you would have him ahead of Mullet or O'Shea.
There is no chance that there is no spot for Weiters, the guy is going to be a gun
Agree. A very high quality player with exceptional intercept marking and kicking.
Will easily be our best defender in a year or two.
Liam Jones still making simple errors
We rotated 6 tonight vs Saints 8. It was our choice (Bolts likes to push them beyond limits preseason) which might account for a few of the fade out or them looking like they had fresher legs at times....because they did.
Probably explains much about why the Saints dominated the midfield for long periods, mainly via Stephens from what I could make out. We held up though in the end and maybe gained a lot from the experience? I thought, to our great credit, we had a resurgence in the second half of the final quarter to gain the win.
Dow played with a smile on his face tonight. Shame about his front tooth :(
That was Paddy's warm up RSN performance ;)
There were certainly some lackluster patches in the second half. All in all though a solid run against quality opposition. Only jlt and all that but a win for a young side is priceless. We had more players out than Saints yet we held our own. I love that we lost the turnover stat too and de remained reasonable. I hope these are all signs of the effectiveness of our preparation.
I hope Garlett is OK. He had a few flashes of brilliance and will be better for the run. I thought Kennedy was solid and Byrne worked his way into it.
Jonesy just continues to impress in defense. I hope the Carlton shop's got plenty of #14 merchandise. I also noticed how many of the guys looked (on tv) like they were giving instruction. Perhaps our leadership density really is increasing. That will make for a super learning environment for our newbies and youngsters.
Enjoy the tiny wins bluebaggers
Garlett is a bit light and plays a WAFL brand of footy, talented for sure but might be a horses for courses player on dry bigger grounds....
Bit early to judge there EB!
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blue-moon-carlton-shine-under-the-lights-20180228-p4z27i.html (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blue-moon-carlton-shine-under-the-lights-20180228-p4z27i.html)
Garlett is a bit light and plays a WAFL brand of footy, talented for sure but might be a horses for courses player on dry bigger grounds....
First run in the big time for quite a while. He’ll pick up the pace as the season progresses.
Probably explains much about why the Saints dominated the midfield for long periods, mainly via Stephens from what I could make out. We held up though in the end and maybe gained a lot from the experience? I thought, to our great credit, we had a resurgence in the second half of the final quarter to gain the win.
Me too cookie. My biased view was that we've trained the q4 fadeouts effectively.
Interesting how Bolts limits rotations during PS. Clever little bugger ::)
Agree. A very high quality player with exceptional intercept marking and kicking.
Will easily be our best defender in a year or two.
Liam Jones still making simple errors
Who would you play Weitering on vs Richmond, given Jones will most likely get Riewoldt and the other Richmond Forwards will
of the small to mid mobile pressure types? Butler, Costanga, Caddy, Rioli, Edwards, Lambert etc, Martin....?
Who would you play Weitering on vs Richmond, given Jones will most likely get Riewoldt and the other Richmond Forwards will
of the small to mid mobile pressure types? Butler, Costanga, Caddy, Rioli, Edwards, Lambert etc, Martin....?
i'd play him on Rance.
Who would you play Weitering on vs Richmond, given Jones will most likely get Riewoldt and the other Richmond Forwards will
of the small to mid mobile pressure types? Butler, Costanga, Caddy, Rioli, Edwards, Lambert etc, Martin....?
We don't have 5 small defenders either way.
I think you play to your position and zone and perhaps if anything you play Weiters loose in that game zoning across half back.
But anytime you play a team with so many smalls you are going to struggle to match small for small, so you try and take marking options away from them and clog it up with zones
St Kilda were shocking tonight. And it was only JLT.
Those 2 caveats aside that was a great win. We seemed to experiment quite a bit during the game also with the midfield especially.
Liked how we saw off the challenge and pulled away at the end to make it comfortable. How often did that happen in reverse last year?
Dow.... gun. Delivery into the forward line outstanding. Rove off the pack with clean hands. Lot to like.
Felt a lot better than this time last year anyway.
We don't have 5 small defenders either way.
I think you play to your position and zone and perhaps if anything you play Weiters loose in that game zoning across half back.
But anytime you play a team with so many smalls you are going to struggle to match small for small, so you try and take marking options away from them and clog it up with zones
If he is loose are you playing another man back to pick up his man or are you allowing Weiterings nominated opponent to also be loose? the latter is a dangerous tactic given Richmonds
entry rate and ability to rebound quickly which doesnt include bombing the ball, rather they hit up their smalls on the run and look to burn you on the break by creating the overlap.
i'd play him on Rance.
Fair enough, dont mind that idea....
I think that young Harry's efforts tonight confirmed what his form in the NBs and in his two previous games suggested; he can play. However, he needs to be able to string several games together to adjust to the tempo and pressure. The last thing I would do is drop him and play Weitering forward.
Marchbank was outstanding tonight and Plowman wasn't far behind. With Weitering, we have three defenders who can match up on a tall forward, play up the ground and provide run through the midfield. There's no reason why we can't play all three, and Jones, in defence and up the ground.
Dow definitely looks the goods and O'Brien will be better for the experience. Kennedy was quieter than I was expecting but his hardness at the contest was promising. Garlett flashed in and out but the tackle that ended his night was a highlight.
Kreuzer and Cripps both made good on their desire to be more effective in the forward 50 and both were in good form around the ground. Casboult was very good as back up to Kreuzer and I think that he will be a major beneficiary if McKay and Charlie Curnow continue to improve.
Cuningham was good, as was Fisher, and it's good to see their development progressing.
Finally, anyone who thinks Ed Curnow won't be one of the first players picked for round 1 has rocks in their head :)
The positive thing for me is that we need to squeeze a few lesser performers out by R1. Looking at the stats sheet we only played 24, so it looks like Samo & Weiters were not replaced, which is interesting in itself. To get them back in we need to take out 4.
I can only think of 3 easy outs, being Lamb, Mullett & O'Brien. Pickett & Garlett only got half a dozen touches each (Garlett injured of course), but Pickett looks very dangerous, and his upside is huge, so he's got to stay in. Someone will be unlucky.
My favourite thing though was the interview with Cripps. The boys wanted to win, JLT or not. That's the guts of everything right there. If these boys can get some ruthlessness and desire to win about them, then we're onto something. If not, they may as well play social footy.
Weiters will play CHB, where Marchbank played tonight.
Marchbank becomes the 3rd tall, Plowden the 4th, both can probably play small when required, and effectively Weiters pushes Mullet out of the team. That's how I see it anyway.
I thought Byrne played the most Docheryesque type of game.
He took the game on at every opportunity and while it didn't always work out, he gave it a good go!
Dow is a ripper and will contribute from round 1. LOB needs to work on a few things but could still get some game time.
I liked what I saw of Kennedy, I just didn't see enough of it, but I'm sure he'll improve.
Garlett will be ripper. Him, Picket & SPS will be an absolute joy to watch for years to come!
We didn't kick 100 points but we had 9 goal scorers and 4 of those kicked multiple's, that's what we will want to see every week.
Who would you play Weitering on vs Richmond, given Jones will most likely get Riewoldt and the other Richmond Forwards will
of the small to mid mobile pressure types? Butler, Costanga, Caddy, Rioli, Edwards, Lambert etc, Martin....?
Rance.
Edit:
Jesus, I’ve just read that I’m in agreement with fly about something... ????
????????
Hope there’s a replay available tomorrow, Go Blues !
I think that young Harry's efforts tonight confirmed what his form in the NBs and in his two previous games suggested; he can play. However, he needs to be able to string several games together to adjust to the tempo and pressure. The last thing I would do is drop him and play Weitering forward.
Marchbank was outstanding tonight and Plowman wasn't far behind. With Weitering, we have three defenders who can match up on a tall forward, play up the ground and provide run through the midfield. There's no reason why we can't play all three, and Jones, in defence and up the ground.
Dow definitely looks the goods and O'Brien will be better for the experience. Kennedy was quieter than I was expecting but his hardness at the contest was promising. Garlett flashed in and out but the tackle that ended his night was a highlight.
Kreuzer and Cripps both made good on their desire to be more effective in the forward 50 and both were in good form around the ground. Casboult was very good as back up to Kreuzer and I think that he will be a major beneficiary if McKay and Charlie Curnow continue to improve.
Cuningham was good, as was Fisher, and it's good to see their development progressing.
Finally, anyone who thinks Ed Curnow won't be one of the first players picked for round 1 has rocks in their head :)
Ed would want to use the ball a lot better than he did tonight if he wants to stay in the team long term.
Mullet was one of our worst tonight I thought. Byrne was very good. Simmo also. Probably one small defender short as with Weit coming back we're very tall down back.
Still a question mark over Weitering for mine. His 2016 season was top shelf, but his 2017 season was ordinary. Yes, I know he's young, but if you take away his No1 ranking, his form last season was very concerning. In fact, if I had to pick one thing that saddened me the most about our 2017 season, it was Jacob's drop off. I'm not sure if he was injured, 2nd year blues, mental issues etc.
And I'm not sure that Weeters on Rance is a great idea. If he is, as I suspect, down on form, and down on confidence, why make him the sacrificial lamb and play him on the best fullback in the league, a bloke who is more mobile, more experienced, more wily ?
We should mix it up with Rance. Play smalls and talls on him (e.g Wright / Levi/Harry Mac), sometimes double team him. We don't have anyone that is an ideal match up, so mixing it up may unsettle him, and also lessen the impact on any one player, since the pain is shared.
And I'm not sure that Weeters on Rance is a great idea. If he is, as I suspect, down on form, and down on confidence, why make him the sacrificial lamb and play him on the best fullback in the league, a bloke who is more mobile, more experienced, more wily ?
.....Because he's done it before ;)
http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2017/1/carl-v-rich
Young gun Jacob Weitering played exclusively as a forward and kicked three goals in an entertaining battle with star defender Alex Rance,
Is he down on form and confidence?
His last month of last season was pretty solid after a down period during the middle part of the year.
There is no doubt he should play back.
That's where he's at his best.
But if the argument is that there is no place for him in defence due to "team balance" there then he's more than capable of playing forward.
Bottom line is.... he plays :D
Weitering is a major concern, can’t be selected because of team balance, should be traded & has mental issues?
.....Because he's done it before ;)
http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2017/1/carl-v-rich
Is he down on form and confidence?
His last month of last season was pretty solid after a down period during the middle part of the year.
There is no doubt he should play back.
That's where he's at his best.
But if the argument is that there is no place for him in defence due to "team balance" there then he's more than capable of playing forward.
Bottom line is.... he plays :D
That was his best game for the season, and he went down hill after that. I just think he is being mucked around with too much - it's like, when all else fails, call in Weeters. I'd like to see him regain his 2016 form, and I'm not sure using him as the Mr Fix it is a great way to do it. He got a little better in the last few weeks of 2017, but still far from his best IMO.
That was his best game for the season, and he went down hill after that. I just think he is being mucked around with too much - it's like, when all else fails, call in Weeters. I'd like to see him regain his 2016 form, and I'm not sure using him as the Mr Fix it is a great way to do it. He got a little better in the last few weeks of 2017, but still far from his best IMO.
He copped an injury in that game.
I suspect he played injured for a lot of the season but towards the end he was starting to regain his form.
He was amongst our best in the Swans game at the end of the year.
It won't be Weitering that is struggling to get a spot, but there were some others on show last night that would be in the gun.
St Kilda had a relatively weak forward setup and we could have used Weitering to shut them down fully.
On the upside;
Pickett has showed glimpses of that X-Factor.
Garlett is a cracker if he stays injury free.
Dow is a special.
Cripps is heading to another level, looked like he was the most effective tall forward as well.
Good to see Byrne gain some confidence.
Jones looked to be just warming up to last years form.
Murphy won't get anywhere near as much focus as he has suffered in the past.
Kennedy did well for a first game as well.
No idea of Weitering's form. He hasn't played. Not sure how anyone can judge that yes. Out last night with a slight neck issue.
Weitering is a major concern, can’t be selected because of team balance, should be traded & has mental issues?
Cr@p!!
He didn't play because of an injury. Nothing to do with team balance.
Traded ??? Don't hold your breath, it won't happen.
Mental issues ?? Please explain.
Cr@p!!
He didn't play because of an injury. Nothing to do with team balance.
Traded ??? Don't hold your breath, it won't happen.
Mental issues ?? Please explain.
Yes, Weitering is pure talent and will play when available, even if he goes forward (which I'm not really a fan of) or plays a swingman type role.
He copped an injury in that game.
I suspect he played injured for a lot of the season but towards the end he was starting to regain his form.
He was amongst our best in the Swans game at the end of the year.
If the club is playing a young man like that injured, a young No1 pick at the very start of his career, then the people responsible need several swift kicks up the ar$e. Very poor player mangement IMO.
I can hardly believe some comments. Geez Weitering is the same age as Jack, Harry, and Charlie.
He is going to be perfectly fine and a key part of our defense. He is easily in our best 22 and talk about balance and all that is rubbish. He is a good enough player that he will slot straight in.
If the club is playing a young man like that injured, a young No1 pick at the very start of his career, then the people responsible need several swift kicks up the ar$e. Very poor player mangement IMO.
A large percentage of players have niggles and play through them though Paul it depends on what the injury is. It may very well have been something that was always going to clear up over time or need a clean up at season end. That is stock standard.
If he is loose are you playing another man back to pick up his man or are you allowing Weiterings nominated opponent to also be loose? the latter is a dangerous tactic given Richmonds
entry rate and ability to rebound quickly which doesnt include bombing the ball, rather they hit up their smalls on the run and look to burn you on the break by creating the overlap.
Actually I think Richmond scuff the ball forward. They don't bomb long, but I don't think they are hitting up a lot of targets either. I think they trust themselves on the ground.
I would be playing with a 7 man defense against Richmond and wanting Weitering to just hover. I agree that finding tactics against Richmond will be difficult, but that it to be expected in a team that won their finals by about 7 goals each and won the flag.
Yes, Weitering is pure talent and will play when available, even if he goes forward (which I'm not really a fan of) or plays a swingman type role.
Playing Weitering as a swing man occurs becuase others in KPP roles are incapable and should be replaced.
It's not Weitering's fault he gets used as cover for spuds!
There were several talls out there last night that won't be playing Rnd 1 if alternatives are fit and available. There is no point me highlighting them because it will start a war.
No idea of Weitering's form. He hasn't played. Not sure how anyone can judge that yes. Out last night with a slight neck issue.
Let's see the bloke play this year before we say he's shot or whatever....
It's 1 March today folks - we have played 1 pre season game....
The bloke is quality. Of course his best position is down back but no reason he can't cameo up forward as required for team balance.
Or heck leave him in the backline and send Marchbank - or Jones - forward.
End of the day we comfortably pantsed a team everyone is talking up in 2018 and beyond....
All that without Weiters, SPS, next to nothing out of Charlie (and Smurf), Garlett injured and gifting quite a few goals to the Sainters....could have easily been a 50 point win.
No question we took the foot off the pedal in Q3 - by design or otherwise...
And what's with the umps - you lay a tackle and the tackled player collapses - in the back. They do the same to us - holding the ball.
a VERY MERITORIOUS VICTORY.
Go Blues.
Just a few random thoughts after watching last night's pleasing and encouraging effort.
How heartening to watch us win a pre season game. Make no bones about it, the Aints came to win and had a full side. If they didn't look so good it's because we simply didn't allow them to dictate terms and we did something we haven't done for a long time - put scoreboard pressure on our opponents; had 'em on the back foot from the get-go.
Even when the Aints came at us, we absorbed the pressure and composed ourselves.
Don't underestimate David Teague's influence on this side - love it.
Mullet and Lamb (love the 'cooked' gag earlier :)) ) will be very good contributors for the NBs.
Kennedy did a lot of the bullocking, unnoticed stuff - loved it.
O'Brien a little overawed but will be a ripper.
Not only does Matty Wright kick goals, he seems to kick them exactly when we need them.
First time I can remember Simmo starting (a season) strongly. Great. Also great to see other experienced blokes hit the ground running. Tractor was a ripper.
Dow is a beaut, top-notch attitude and approach. That burst out of the guts and pin-point delivery at full tilt was Juddesque (hope Juddy takes him under his wing).
Crippa raised his game. His influence on the game was telling. Next Captain.
Although not starring, many other blokes did their jobs.
Yes, we've still got loads of room for improvement and it is only one game... but, strong foundations are finally in place for all to see. Now to grow together. No longer green shoots... now we're rapidly growing saplings!
A really good team effort with all 3 areas of the ground (forwards/mids-onballers/defender) showing authority, effectiveness and composure. And we have to get better - especially working on maintaining authority... no lapses.
(speechless re Weitering comments, fully expect to see him back to his best this year... and a 200+ game player for us).
A large percentage of players have niggles and play through them though Paul it depends on what the injury is. It may very well have been something that was always going to clear up over time or need a clean up at season end. That is stock standard.
When I saw Weeters in 2016, I thought he will become the best player on our list - better than Cripps, better than anyone. He made everything look effortless, almost easy. When I saw him in 2017, I could hardly believe it was the same player.
I would adopt a horses for courses approach - if you're a Hodge type, at the end of a great career, then taking a risk with injuries may be ok. Playing Weeters injured was dumb - he didn't help the team, didn't help himself, and was ineffective and beaten too often. If they tried playing him for a couple of weeks, saw it wasn't working, then pulled the plug, that's fine. But to persist in a nothing season, with the risk of making the injury worse, was dumb.
I'm not anti Weeters - in fact, it's the opposite.
But Paul you blanket statement without knowing the injury and whether there was any long term risks is very presumptuous.
We know even 1st and 2nd year players are often going in during the off season for clean up surgery in today's football and Weitering would have been expected to pass certain training metrics like any other player to be declared "fit" to play. Now perhaps he struggled playing sort, but was trying to adapt to that, it doesn't mean he has to sit out if that is the case, it can be as much as anything a learning curve, because you are going to play sore for a lot of your career.
Weitering didn't suddenly become useless in 2017, he just didn't follow up on the 2016 form, not at all unusual for a young player.
But without any real knowledge as to what was wrong with Weiters and whether there was any real risk of injury, there is no way of knowing whether it was a 'dumb' decision to play him. We do know for sure though that when the club thought a player was becoming burnt out or couldn't perform due to their injury (Samo or Harry Mc being excamples) they didn't play.
Jack was an example of a player that was playing with shoulder issues (same age as Weitering) and then had his surgery at the end of the season.
Remember Weiters was right to go at the start of pre-season as well, so he certainly didn't have any major work in the off-season, which would seem to further strengthen any argument the club hasn't mismanaged any injuries he was playing with.
One negative from last night was a few things that Curnow done.
I there was a checkside kick into 50 that stupid little dribble on the ground instead of the handball to Harry Mac (I think) on the wing and getting caught a couple times thinking he will just burst through tackles.
He will get much better, but there was just a bit of Stevie J lairising that used to annoy me with Stevie J. He just needs to stick to doing what he does best Charlie. The taking people on and getting caught is fine, he needs to get better at busting out of tackles, but the stupid dinky kicks... Just stop them now.
I hope Bolts highlights to him how stupid those pieces of play were and why there is no place for them when there are better options
Young guys get drafted, generally speaking, as yet to reach full physical maturity. If, as with Weitering, they are talented enough, they are thrown virtually immediately into gladiatorial combat with some of the toughest of physical specimens you can find. This takes its toll both physically and mentally. No surprise then that they can suffer a setback or an injury or two whilst coming to grips with this huge challenge. The strong survive and thrive once they learn the ropes and reach full maturity and I'm sure Weiters will be one of those.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-thought-it-was-a-joke-chris-judd-refused-entry-at-ikon-park-20180301-p4z28j.html
::)
The great man refused entry last night by an over-zealous gate attendant!
Oh dear.
But Paul you blanket statement without knowing the injury and whether there was any long term risks is very presumptuous.
We know even 1st and 2nd year players are often going in during the off season for clean up surgery in today's football and Weitering would have been expected to pass certain training metrics like any other player to be declared "fit" to play. Now perhaps he struggled playing sort, but was trying to adapt to that, it doesn't mean he has to sit out if that is the case, it can be as much as anything a learning curve, because you are going to play sore for a lot of your career.
Weitering didn't suddenly become useless in 2017, he just didn't follow up on the 2016 form, not at all unusual for a young player.
But without any real knowledge as to what was wrong with Weiters and whether there was any real risk of injury, there is no way of knowing whether it was a 'dumb' decision to play him. We do know for sure though that when the club thought a player was becoming burnt out or couldn't perform due to their injury (Samo or Harry Mc being excamples) they didn't play.
Jack was an example of a player that was playing with shoulder issues (same age as Weitering) and then had his surgery at the end of the season.
Remember Weiters was right to go at the start of pre-season as well, so he certainly didn't have any major work in the off-season, which would seem to further strengthen any argument the club hasn't mismanaged any injuries he was playing with.
Yes, no doubt there's a healthy dose of presumptuousness and speculation on my part, which is one reason out of many why this forum exists, and for which I make no apologies. Whilst it's true that I can't prove anything, it's also true that no one can prove the opposite.
I'll tell you straight up, I'm in the Weeters fan club. I just hope both he and the club get it right. I saw flashes of Bruce Doull when I watched him in 2016, so clearly he is capable.
One negative from last night was a few things that Curnow done.
I there was a checkside kick into 50 that stupid little dribble on the ground instead of the handball to Harry Mac (I think) on the wing and getting caught a couple times thinking he will just burst through tackles.
He will get much better, but there was just a bit of Stevie J lairising that used to annoy me with Stevie J. He just needs to stick to doing what he does best Charlie. The taking people on and getting caught is fine, he needs to get better at busting out of tackles, but the stupid dinky kicks... Just stop them now.
I hope Bolts highlights to him how stupid those pieces of play were and why there is no place for them when there are better options
Yeah, it must be hard for the kid to net get caught up - to some degree - in all the hype the press put out on him...
Pretty hsppy that his input/output was negligible and we still won comfortably.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-thought-it-was-a-joke-chris-judd-refused-entry-at-ikon-park-20180301-p4z28j.html
::)
The great man refused entry last night by an over-zealous gate attendant!
Oh dear.
I love this!
"I mean, there's good news and bad news from that. The bad news was I was embarrassed. The good news was that young bloke's got a new employment opportunity elsewhere in the community," he joked.
I love this!
I was supposed to be on the same table at the pre game function as the great man but had to cancel due to work commitments. Would have been a good laugh.
Yes, Weitering is pure talent and will play when available, even if he goes forward (which I'm not really a fan of) or plays a swingman type role.
On Weiters fwd v back: Bolts said on radio he played fwd out of team needs, not coaches preference. IMO he'll play back and planfully develop swingman role. That said, where do Rowe and Willo come in this year? Willo may play further up the ground. Very healthy competition for spots in our backline. Whoever is selected will vary with match ups. One thing's for sure we'll see every player reach their potential.
Go Blues.
Cr@p!!
He didn't play because of an injury. Nothing to do with team balance.
Traded ??? Don't hold your breath, it won't happen.
Mental issues ?? Please explain.
I’m as incredulous as you are... and should have indicated as such.
I thought the Plow was moving very well last night too...
I understand the guy was a really good mover as a kid but has appeared hampered in recent seasons.
Doc aside, gotta love the core of Plow, Marchy, Weiters and Jones - the equal of any in the league and with so much upside!
Mullett - meh - will have to prove himself in the 2s.
Lamb too found the ball a lot but seemed to be dishing off a pass before he'd taken possession himself!
With only 22 allowed in the regular season (why don't they allow a bigger bench), hard to see either of these two getting a regular gig.
Lamb isn't going to play ahead of Murphy, Wright, Pickett, Garlett, Fisher, SoJ or (even say) O'Brien.
Mullet is clearly behind Byrne, Willo and O'Shea for that matter.
Looked like Marchbank might be the one who we look to have in the Docherty role... might be worth a look in your SuperCoach team.
When I saw Weeters in 2016, I thought he will become the best player on our list - better than Cripps, better than anyone. He made everything look effortless, almost easy. When I saw him in 2017, I could hardly believe it was the same player.
And yet statistically he was barely different from 2016 to 2017.
He's a tall, and like any other tall he'll take a good 3 or 4 years to find his feet.
Which by the way highlights how good Cripps is as a midfielder, he seems to have sidestepped the 6'5" type development curve.
Yes, no doubt there's a healthy dose of presumptuousness and speculation on my part, which is one reason out of many why this forum exists, and for which I make no apologies. Whilst it's true that I can't prove anything, it's also true that no one can prove the opposite.
But the onus is on you Paul as you are accusing the club of risking him being further injured and it was dumb of them to play him.
That would be like saying "Fred stole something" and then asking Fred to prove he didn't steal it, rather than having to prove he did.
I agree the forums are here for as wild as speculation as people want, but also for others to question if there is any real basis for that speculation.
So not having a go at you, just disagreeing with your assumption, which in this instance appears to be
Weiters was injured, he had a poor season, so the club managed him badly.
My assertion is that I don't see anything with the way the club manages it's players to suggest it would in fact risk Weiters unnecessarily.
Oh I don't think you are negative about Weitering at all. As you can probably tell neither am I. I just am pretty well behind the way the club is managing things (finally, after years and years of crap) and hence my response to speculation we are mismanaging players.
And yet statistically he was barely different from 2016 to 2017.
In a post I done a couple of months ago and based purely on last seasons form I had him only slight below Marchank and Plowman for the season and I had him ahead of all the other Under 21 players except Curnow and Marchbank. I rated him a 69 on the season with Plowman a 72 and Marchbank a 73.
For a 2nd year player, his season was still good and still better than a lot of our other players, including 3 of the Rising Star nominees (imo)
But the onus is on you Paul as you are accusing the club of risking him being further injured and it was dumb of them to play him.
That would be like saying "Fred stole something" and then asking Fred to prove he didn't steal it, rather than having to prove he did.
I agree the forums are here for as wild as speculation as people want, but also for others to question if there is any real basis for that speculation.
So not having a go at you, just disagreeing with your assumption, which in this instance appears to be
Weiters was injured, he had a poor season, so the club managed him badly.
My assertion is that I don't see anything with the way the club manages it's players to suggest it would in fact risk Weiters unnecessarily.
Oh I don't think you are negative about Weitering at all. As you can probably tell neither am I. I just am pretty well behind the way the club is managing things (finally, after years and years of crap) and hence my response to speculation we are mismanaging players.
It's been discussed on here many times over the years (speculated, if you will) that our club has a dubious history of injury management - speculation around Kreuzer in his early years etc. In recent times, Jarrad Waite has intimated that the guys at North are better and he's been able to play more games than he would have at Carlton. If our club has been dysfunctional across many departments, it's not unreasonable to speculate that the way they deal with injuries may also be less than ideal.
And yet statistically he was barely different from 2016 to 2017.
He's a tall, and like any other tall he'll take a good 3 or 4 years to find his feet.
Which by the way highlights how good Cripps is as a midfielder, he seems to have sidestepped the 6'5" type development curve.
Stats can be problematic sometimes - we all know examples of players with 40 possies whose influence on the game is minimal. My eyes might deceive me, but I know what I see. Go back and look at the in game threads from last season. Lots of speculation around Weets.
I know he'll take a few years to sort himself out. I just don't want to see him derailed.
Looked like Marchbank might be the one who we look to have in the Docherty role... might be worth a look in your SuperCoach team.
To me Byrne looks more Docherty-like, especially the run and carry. He can end up with 3 or 4 possessions in every passage of play.
Just for the hell of it, I took a break and flicked the radio dial to SEN and was very lucky to hear Ragsy Goold call in to give his tuppence worth. He was quite optimistic, especially praising SOS for his strategic recruiting. He mentioned that it appeared the 'virus' of past years (pretty sure it was an Elliot reference), had gone and that perhaps the highly ethical attitude of Serg has been passed onto SOS and that the club will ultimately benefit from that... good on you, Ragsy.
His only comment of concern was that, in relation to the how well we set up quick attacking thrusts from defense (last night), that Weitering might slow that process. Interesting. Thoughts?
re: Lamb.....reckon the coach might like him because he applies a bit of defensive pressure which some of the others dont. He may not be as flashy but I think
he will get games ahead of more flashy players who dont do the harder stuff as well.
re: Mullet looked like he did at North, good skills but lightweight and not physical enough in close...still think he will get opportunities due to his ability to play on smaller players
re: Byrne...good run and carry but defensive wise looks shaky when running back near goal...
It's been discussed on here many times over the years (speculated, if you will) that our club has a dubious history of injury management - speculation around Kreuzer in his early years etc. In recent times, Jarrad Waite has intimated that the guys at North are better and he's been able to play more games than he would have at Carlton. If our club has been dysfunctional across many departments, it's not unreasonable to speculate that the way they deal with injuries may also be less than ideal.
It is reasonable to speculate all you like, but not reasonable to expect that there is anything at all in it.
Jarrad Waite left the club when the club was quite different to what it is now and even then, he is hardly going to come out and say North has worse at injury management is he? That is a line that has been repeated by players going to new clubs over the years. I think Josh Kennedy said the same thing at Sydney.
Waite of course has only played 50% of games the last 2 seasons as well.
But saying that because a club was bad x number of years ago so it is fair to say they are probably bad now is baseless. As an ridiculous extreme example isn't that like saying x % of Germans were seriously NAZI supporters during the early 30s and 40s so therefore it is reasonable that a lot are still now. I mean Kreuzer in his early years ;D ;D ;D You have to be kidding if you are using that as an indicator
The only real indication of how the club manages injuries is looking at the players and I don't see players constantly breaking down with Soft tissue injuries or chronic injuries that are not repairing.
It is reasonable to speculate all you like, but not reasonable to expect that there is anything at all in it.
Jarrad Waite left the club when the club was quite different to what it is now and even then, he is hardly going to come out and say North has worse at injury management is he? That is a line that has been repeated by players going to new clubs over the years. I think Josh Kennedy said the same thing at Sydney.
Waite of course has only played 50% of games the last 2 seasons as well.
But saying that because a club was bad x number of years ago so it is fair to say they are probably bad now is baseless. As an ridiculous extreme example isn't that like saying x % of Germans were seriously NAZI supporters during the early 30s and 40s so therefore it is reasonable that a lot are still now. I mean Kreuzer in his early years ;D ;D ;D You have to be kidding if you are using that as an indicator
The only real indication of how the club manages injuries is looking at the players and I don't see players constantly breaking down with Soft tissue injuries or chronic injuries that are not repairing.
Waite didn't have to say anything at all. And Kreuzer is still a current player - if the theory about dubious injury management is true, it's quite conceivable that such poor injury management may manifest itself at a later date, under a new regime. I don't believe such things are as far fetched as you make them out to be.
Waite didn't have to say anything at all. And Kreuzer is still a current player - if the theory about dubious injury management is true, it's quite conceivable that such poor injury management may manifest itself at a later date, under a new regime. I don't believe such things are as far fetched as you make them out to be.
Yet you have no basis at all for them Paul? Is it safe to assume the bombers have not learned from the Peptide fiasco?
What part of our injuries over the last few years gives any indication of mismanagement?
You talk about Weitering, but he was right to go preseason, so he wasn't hampered by playing and why would it be a natural assumption he was 'risked'?
Kreuzer has been at the club 10 years that is a lifetime in football and even then you get an odd player who breaks down, especially taller heavier players.
But even if I said.. okay you have a basis to suggest that Kreuzer wasn't managed well from an injury stand point and the proof is the time he was out with recurring injuries. Why is it likely to be the same now?
We have had numerous staff changes across all positions since those days and the club right now seems to be particularly trying to act is a most systematic approach.
I still personally believe you can be as entitled to an opinion as you like, but that there is absolutely nothing solid to base it on.
It is like saying, our recruiting is crap. Well it was for a long time, but with different recruiters in and more advanced techniques for analyzing players, why is what we done even 4 years ago relevant?
The 1% stat should be renamed a "Jones" :D
Continuing on from his efforts in this area last season he had 14 last night...next best from either side was 5.
He started really well but also made a few errors that led to goals.
A few "heart in the mouth" moments while he's still learning the craft no doubt...but you absolutely cannot fault his commitment.
Yey we won
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/i-thought-it-was-a-joke-chris-judd-refused-entry-at-ikon-park-20180301-p4z28j.html
::)
The great man refused entry last night by an over-zealous gate attendant!
Oh dear.
I think the guy did the right thing. The practice of allowing entry by facial recognition in nonsense. And Judd's comments about the guy having to look for a new job are juvenile, and smack of arrogance.
Yet you have no basis at all for them Paul? Is it safe to assume the bombers have not learned from the Peptide fiasco?
What part of our injuries over the last few years gives any indication of mismanagement?
You talk about Weitering, but he was right to go preseason, so he wasn't hampered by playing and why would it be a natural assumption he was 'risked'?
Kreuzer has been at the club 10 years that is a lifetime in football and even then you get an odd player who breaks down, especially taller heavier players.
But even if I said.. okay you have a basis to suggest that Kreuzer wasn't managed well from an injury stand point and the proof is the time he was out with recurring injuries. Why is it likely to be the same now?
We have had numerous staff changes across all positions since those days and the club right now seems to be particularly trying to act is a most systematic approach.
I still personally believe you can be as entitled to an opinion as you like, but that there is absolutely nothing solid to base it on.
It is like saying, our recruiting is crap. Well it was for a long time, but with different recruiters in and more advanced techniques for analyzing players, why is what we done even 4 years ago relevant?
We can keep going with this till doomsday, but I will stop here, since clearly we're not getting anywhere. In answer to your last question, the reason why it matters is that unlike individual players, you can't delist an old injury.
I think the guy did the right thing. The practice of allowing entry by facial recognition in nonsense. And Judd's comments about the guy having to look for a new job are juvenile, and smack of arrogance.
Agree, Judd could be a bit more humble about the fella on the gate and praise him for being vigilant with his job....making the crack about the job I hope was a joke from CJ, the game has given him
plenty back and I want the arrogance when dealing with the man in the street gone from our club..
Just for the hell of it, I took a break and flicked the radio dial to SEN and was very lucky to hear Ragsy Goold call in to give his tuppence worth. He was quite optimistic, especially praising SOS for his strategic recruiting. He mentioned that it appeared the 'virus' of past years (pretty sure it was an Elliot reference), had gone and that perhaps the highly ethical attitude of Serg has been passed onto SOS and that the club will ultimately benefit from that... good on you, Ragsy.
His only comment of concern was that, in relation to the how well we set up quick attacking thrusts from defense (last night), that Weitering might slow that process. Interesting. Thoughts?
Don’t agree - that’s a game style change that all players have to implement. If we are looking to move it quickly, we need guys who can hit targets. Otherwise it will go to sh1te fast.
Weitering is a good kick, makes good decisions and can kick it long... I think he is a better kick than Marchbank.
Agree, Judd could be a bit more humble about the fella on the gate and praise him for being vigilant with his job....making the crack about the job I hope was a joke from CJ, the game has given him
plenty back and I want the arrogance when dealing with the man in the street gone from our club..
Yes, it's those sorts of interactions that make me think we still have a long way to go before we become the club of the people, or one of them anyway.
And Judd seems to be becoming quite the bitch. KB recently questioned the legitimacy of the Eagles last flag, and Judd's response was intensely personal and vicious. Whether you like KB or not is irrelevant IMO.
https://thewest.com.au/sport/west-coast-eagles/judd-hits-back-kb-took-20-years-to-realise-he-was-going-bald-ng-b88426194z
Agree, Judd could be a bit more humble about the fella on the gate and praise him for being vigilant with his job....making the crack about the job I hope was a joke from CJ, the game has given him
plenty back and I want the arrogance when dealing with the man in the street gone from our club..
Yep exactly what I was thinking.
But his history of always showing respect and generally being a great role model to many makes me inclined to think it was purely a one off comment trying to be funny that I bet he would want to retract if he could.
How good is fishers field kicking.
His weighted kick to crippa was diesel like.
He might be undersized but knows where to move to when receiving the ball, has smarts to evade tackles and most importantly where to put the ball when kicking into attack.
Reckon he will become a true starting mid for us this year.
Calm down peeps - it was described as a “light hearted segment on Triple M”...
Calm down peeps - it was described as a “light hearted segment on Triple M”...
Gee, this whole country is so worried about being 'PC' ffs.
It was a joke, nothing more nothing less...
Also note Paddy 'Wow' could have kicked 4 goals last night....finished with 2.1 but he's a special, no question.
Gee, this whole country is so worried about being 'PC' ffs.
It was a joke, nothing more nothing less...
It's just more oxygen for KB to use in generating pollution.
He opens his mouth, crap balloons float out!
It's just more oxygen for KB to use in generating pollution.
He opens his mouth, crap balloons float out!
KB is in the media, and needs to talk about something. Judd's response is very poor, no matter how you slice it.
KB is in the media, and needs to talk about something. Judd's response is very poor, no matter how you slice it.
Yep it is if your heads up you clacker.
Otherwise you would see it as a joke
Yep it is if your heads up you clacker.
Otherwise you would see it as a joke
Hilarious joke - had me in stitches.
The line between a gentle jibe and a barbed comment is sometimes very fine, but it's still there, and IMO Judd crossed it.
Hilarious joke - had me in stitches.
The line between a gentle jibe and a barbed comment is sometimes very fine, but it's still there, and IMO Judd crossed it.
:o :o :o
Hopefully good news on the injury front :
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-03-01/early-signs-positive-for-new-blues-shoulder-injury
Weiters absolutely is a lock to get back in this team. He is still better than Marchbank/Plowman and many others and in any case you would have him ahead of Mullet or O'Shea.
There is no chance that there is no spot for Weiters, the guy is going to be a gun
Marchbank and Plowman can and will play on different players to what Weitering would. I've got nothing against him, but there are plenty of teams that will try and go small up forward and in all honesty, Jones is playing better than Weitering ever has, and he might be the #1 key back and there might not need a #2. Marchbank and Plowman can play small, but can play tall if need be as well.
It would also limit our running ability having him in the side as it means someone who would run more, perhaps even a pure mid, would have to make way for him.
Lods is closer to the money saying he'd probably be played forward, but unless its in place of casboult, i'd prefer to keep McKay in the side getting games under his belt.
:o :o :o
The murder of Gonzago.
Watched abit of the game, happy with any win whether its JLT or season proper, breeds the right culture. I like the way we appeared to move the ball quicker, still a work in progress though. I still saw a little too much sideways movement and indecisiveness from players at HB or on the wing whilst trying to thrust fwd. Players need to look for the player running past and go bang. You cant stop and prop every time to access the options, its what stifles our game IMO. Decisions need to be made much quicker and can be made easier on the bloke with the footy by those around him getting into the right position and get motoring to provide the option (ie no stationary witches hats pointing into the air). I guess this takes time to master but I would rather pay the penalties for the odd error playing this way than than slow, stop, prop look sideways stuff.
In a post I done a couple of months ago and based purely on last seasons form I had him only slight below Marchank and Plowman for the season and I had him ahead of all the other Under 21 players except Curnow and Marchbank. I rated him a 69 on the season with Plowman a 72 and Marchbank a 73.
For a 2nd year player, his season was still good and still better than a lot of our other players, including 3 of the Rising Star nominees (imo)
....and where was Jones? I'm tipping above all of them as well.
Which is my point. The other 3, are all in good form and held down the major defensive posts down back.
You can have your 3 best players rated 99, 98 and 97....but if they are all ruckmen, then you can't fit them all in the side.
Nobody is saying Weitering isn't talented, or couldn't perform at AFL level. Just saying that it is possible, that the blokes we have currently playing a similar role to him, are playing it better than he has/will and we may be better off for team balance (getting more mids into the side) not having him in it.
Bolts wanted to play the kids last year. So many debutants, so many rising stars. Yet even he admitted that he played too many in 1 game (port??) and said he got it wrong. Team balance was all out of whack and we got flogged. The same is possible for key backs.
Hell, Setanta and his little helpers gave teams all sorts of grief because it we were so small and would run off/around/through their 'excess' key defenders when played against us. I think the game is heading a little bit towards the way we played it then, with Richmond being the obvious point of reference.
Watched abit of the game, happy with any win whether its JLT or season proper, breeds the right culture. I like the way we appeared to move the ball quicker, still a work in progress though. I still saw a little too much sideways movement and indecisiveness from players at HB or on the wing whilst trying to thrust fwd. Players need to look for the player running past and go bang. You cant stop and prop every time to access the options, its what stifles our game IMO. Decisions need to be made much quicker and can be made easier on the bloke with the footy by those around him getting into the right position and get motoring to provide the option (ie no stationary witches hats pointing into the air). I guess this takes time to master but I would rather pay the penalties for the odd error playing this way than than slow, stop, prop look sideways stuff.
I haven't seen the game, but that sound like what the guys on the radio were saying. Progress, but still work to be done.
.........................................
Hell, Setanta and his little helpers gave teams all sorts of grief because it we were so small and would run off/around/through their 'excess' key defenders when played against us. I think the game is heading a little bit towards the way we played it then, with Richmond being the obvious point of reference.
;D
I understand the point you're trying to make Kruddler.
In some respects we may be the victim of more of our defenders exceeding expectations than anticipated.
We drafted/ traded in a lot with the expectation that not all picks would be successful, and we've probably done better than expected.
So what will happen?
If Kruddler is right there will be games Weitering will miss because of no effective match-up.
My expectation is Weitering will play every game unless he's injured.
And it will be because he is the best option in the coaches eyes.
A coaching group worth its salt wouldn't play a player just because he was the number one draft pick...would they?
You would expect (hope)not.
I cannot recall, but wasn't Weitering in the leagues top intercept marks in his first season if not even leading, then we played him forward! ::)
I understand the point you're trying to make Kruddler.
In some respects we may be the victim of more of our defenders exceeding expectations than anticipated.
We drafted/ traded in a lot with the expectation that not all picks would be successful, and we've probably done better than expected.
So what will happen?
If Kruddler is right there will be games Weitering will miss because of no effective match-up.
My expectation is Weitering will play every game unless he's injured.
And it will be because he is the best option in the coaches eyes.
A coaching group worth its salt wouldn't play a player just because he was the number one draft pick...would they?
You would expect (hope)not.
My prediction is that he'll play every game too.
My gut tells me that it may not be in the best interests to do so.
Unfortunately, history tells me that they will certainly play #1 picks for benefits that have nothing to do with game day performance.
I hope that we have learned from our mistakes. Nobody is automatically gifted games and we pick teams to match the opposition and win.
It seems almost perverse that our back line is such that we could contemplate omitting a player of Weeters' caliber.
The media will be onto it very quickly.
I cannot recall, but wasn't Weitering in the leagues top intercept marks in his first season if not even leading, then we played him forward! ::)
Given time to develop, Weitering will make Rance look like a hack. Macca saying on SEN that he will spend most of his time in defence was music to my ears. I would hope he spends all his time in defence.
It seems almost perverse that our back line is such that we could contemplate omitting a player of Weeters' caliber.
The media will be onto it very quickly.
Rest easy Paul, it aint gonna happen.
Given time to develop, Weitering will make Rance look like a hack. Macca saying on SEN that he will spend most of his time in defence was music to my ears. I would hope he spends all his time in defence.
Rest easy Paul, it aint gonna happen.
Just as an aside, when he takes breaks from defence, I wonder if the club would consider playing him on ball, right in the guts ? He can't use his marking ability, but all his other attributes would be very handy - big, strong, good footy brain, good distributor, good reader of the play, clean hands..........
Just a small left field thought.
I still saw a little too much sideways movement and indecisiveness from players at HB or on the wing whilst trying to thrust fwd. Players need to look for the player running past and go bang. You cant stop and prop every time to access the options, its what stifles our game IMO
That’s why I was disappointed that SPS didn’t play. I think we made him play ‘unnaturally’ through stop and prop when his natural instinct is to take the game on. He might very well be the surprise packet of 2018.
My prediction is that he'll play every game too.
My gut tells me that it may not be in the best interests to do so.
Unfortunately, history tells me that they will certainly play #1 picks for benefits that have nothing to do with game day performance.
I hope that we have learned from our mistakes. Nobody is automatically gifted games and we pick teams to match the opposition and win.
I agree on both highlighted points, more attention to selection needs to be made and we now have a wider group of decent players to choose from.
Weitering is a very good footballer who made a great start to his career but I think since his return from that bad shoulder injury he has been more tentative and avoids
potential heavy contact. Have no doubt he will overcome this issue but at the moment I would be handpicking his opponents rather than having him as an automatic CHB, FB etc and just having him take whoever plays those KP slots for the opposition.
He doesnt play with freedom or urgency anymore and isnt the attacking rebounder he was, I think he enjoyed the spell up forward but it didnt do much for his football and I'd prefer he played down back...
Good points Elwood.
Ed would want to use the ball a lot better than he did tonight if he wants to stay in the team long term.
Mullet was one of our worst tonight I thought. Byrne was very good. Simmo also. Probably one small defender short as with Weit coming back we're very tall down back.
I thought Ed's ball use was pretty good, and his work in the defensive 50 was excellent. He will be one of the first players picked for some time to come.
Interestingly, Simmo was picking up a taller opponent on many occasions.
O'Brien had a night to forget (perfectly understandable) and Jones made some errors that, while excusable in a novice defender, could cost us a game during the real season.
Lods is closer to the money saying he'd probably be played forward, but unless its in place of casboult, i'd prefer to keep McKay in the side getting games under his belt.
The same McKay that is only a month younger than Weitering and taken the same draft?
He requires games more than Weitering does?
;D ;D ;D
Just for the hell of it, I took a break and flicked the radio dial to SEN and was very lucky to hear Ragsy Goold call in to give his tuppence worth. He was quite optimistic, especially praising SOS for his strategic recruiting. He mentioned that it appeared the 'virus' of past years (pretty sure it was an Elliot reference), had gone and that perhaps the highly ethical attitude of Serg has been passed onto SOS and that the club will ultimately benefit from that... good on you, Ragsy.
His only comment of concern was that, in relation to the how well we set up quick attacking thrusts from defense (last night), that Weitering might slow that process. Interesting. Thoughts?
It would have been good to hear the great man's comments but I think that he is off the mark in regard to Weitering; his ability to find space and use the ball well will facilitate quick ball movement. Weitering clearly doesn't have Pickett's speed but he is an intuitive footballer who is quick to size up the situation and pick the best option.
One thing that amused/annoyed me was the commentators continually making excuses for St Kilda, eg "Carlton needs to win this more than St Kilda!" ::)
The commentary team was unbalanced with Riewoldt and Del Santo talking to and about their mates but, throughout the telecast, there was an expectation that St Kilda would prevail. No credit was given to Bolton or our players for a solid win over a Saints team that was as close to their best 22 as we were >:(
He doesnt play with freedom or urgency anymore and isnt the attacking rebounder he was
Team orders perhaps.
No need at all to wite him off or speculate he's surplus to needs....
I thought Ed's ball use was pretty good, and his work in the defensive 50 was excellent. He will be one of the first players picked for some time to come.
Interestingly, Simmo was picking up a taller opponent on many occasions.
O'Brien had a night to forget (perfectly understandable) and Jones made some errors that, while excusable in a novice defender, could cost us a game during the real season.
Everyone keeps saying Ed will be one of the first picked. His handballs were frequently hitting the ground and his kicking is usually an up and under dump it up the line kick.
Nothing against Ed but we're moving out of the days where being a hard worker is enough to get you a game. He's got to work out how to use the ball better both by hand and foot.
Thought Kennedy was quiet but his 15 disposals was pretty good given he only played a bit over a half.
Thought Kennedy was quiet but his 15 disposals was pretty good given he only played a bit over a half.
He certainly cracked in though. He's hard at it thats for sure.
Everyone keeps saying Ed will be one of the first picked. His handballs were frequently hitting the ground and his kicking is usually an up and under dump it up the line kick.
Nothing against Ed but we're moving out of the days where being a hard worker is enough to get you a game. He's got to work out how to use the ball better both by hand and foot.
Ed had more touches than anyone else on the ground (apart from Marchbank) and his disposal efficiency was 72%. That's pretty good for a bloke that does his work at the coal face. He will be one of the first picked as long as he maintains that form.
With some exceptions - Dow, Silvagni, Fisher, Casboult, Wright and Pickett - our disposal efficiency was pretty good. Charlie matched Ed with 72% efficiency but Charlie's poor disposals were more by bad decisions than a result of pressure.
He certainly cracked in though. He's hard at it thats for sure.
Yes, Kennedy didn't have the impact I was hoping for but he is a hard nut and will have more than a few opposition midfielders feeling just a little apprehensive. I reckon Murphy will really benefit from having Kennedy cracking in.
Question; did the newbies, collectively, offer more, less or the same as Gibbs?
I realise this is very early in the story. Given the gushing over Gibbs' game, interesting to see the other side of the deal.
Gibbs got us two picks which went on to become Kennedy and OB. Kennedy looks a best 22 player already, OB, I'm not sure.
Yes, Kennedy didn't have the impact I was hoping for but he is a hard nut and will have more than a few opposition midfielders feeling just a little apprehensive. I reckon Murphy will really benefit from having Kennedy cracking in.
It looked to me like we were experimenting a lot with the on ball setup a lot in that game.
In the real thing I suspect Cripps, Kennedy , Kreuzer and Dow will take the majority of the centre square work. Plenty to rotate through there though with Ed, Charlie, Murphy, Samo, Lang and Cunningham.
Question; did the newbies, collectively, offer more, less or the same as Gibbs?
I realise this is very early in the story. Given the gushing over Gibbs' game, interesting to see the other side of the deal.
Gibbs got us two picks which went on to become Kennedy and OB. Kennedy looks a best 22 player already, OB, I'm not sure.
Paddy Dow probably did more to fill the Gibbs gap than anyone else.
Gibbs is a quality player and will not be replaced by any one player though. You could argue him in and Paddy playing would have given us more in the short term than o brien and Kennedy.
Long term it makes sense to have gone the route we have and why it had to happen but no one player will "replace" Gibbs potential influence.
Notice no one talking about Daisy? Obviously his game was pretty good particularly when the game was running away from us in the third quarter.
Paddy Dow probably did more to fill the Gibbs gap than anyone else.
Gibbs is a quality player and will not be replaced by any one player though. You could argue him in and Paddy playing would have given us more in the short term than o brien and Kennedy.
Long term it makes sense to have gone the route we have and why it had to happen but no one player will "replace" Gibbs potential influence.
Notice no one talking about Daisy? Obviously his game was pretty good particularly when the game was running away from us in the third quarter.
I don’t think any one player will replace Gibbs. We have several new and developing players with different abilities and attributes who will more than cover his absence in a very different midfield set up.
As for Daisy, he played his role and was important at times, but some of his decision making and disposals were woeful. I guess we can put that down to blowing the cobwebs out ...
Notice no one talking about Daisy? Obviously his game was pretty good particularly when the game was running away from us in the third quarter.
I'll talk about Daisy. Thought he was terrible and wont be in the side round 1. Don't have anything against him but can't see him getting a game all year actually (baring serious injuries)
I don’t think any one player will replace Gibbs. We have several new and developing players with different abilities and attributes who will more than cover his absence in a very different midfield set up.
As for Daisy, he played his role and was important at times, but some of his decision making and disposals were woeful. I guess we can put that down to blowing the cobwebs out ...
I feel sorry for Daisy, if he isn't clearly BoG by some margin he gets bagged mercilessly, in that JLT game he was clearly among our best and gets no credit.
The coach wanted creative and it was the old blokes including Kreuzer, Thomas, Wright, Murphy, Plowman and Simmo that got busy creating those opportunities for the likes of Dow, Cripps, Pickett and Garlett that everyone is raving about. The fans focus on the people in the final link and ignore the acts and events that started it all off! But quite often it was the older blokes causing the Aints structures to break down, or the older blokes forcing the turnover. It's not always the case that you have to have your hands on the ball either, some of those runs and leads wouldn't have happened if guys like Wright and Thomas hadn't created space by dragging Aints players away from the ball.
Yes, Weitering is pure talent and will play when available, even if he goes forward (which I'm not really a fan of) or plays a swingman type role.
Weitering is a gun. Why are people questioning him? Because a few people on here said he was poor last year? Sheep. Actually he was ok last year if you look at the SEN rankings per game. He often received a 7/10 for his game. Not bad when you are 20.
I'll talk about Daisy. Thought he was terrible and wont be in the side round 1. Don't have anything against him but can't see him getting a game all year actually (baring serious injuries)
Ridiculous comment. He was one of our best.
Weitering is a gun. Why are people questioning him? Because a few people on here said he was poor last year? Sheep. Actually he was ok last year if you look at the SEN rankings per game. He often received a 7/10 for his game. Not bad when you are 20.
Yes, I find peoples bias extraordinary.
For example, SoJ gets pumped up here, he's also a 2nd year player. Yet his rankings relative to Weitering are ordinary, yet apparently we are dumping Weitering and keeping SoJ. I just have to assume it's an nepotism thing or something like that, because it makes no sense from the football or the stats.
re: Kennedy......blue collar worker, lot of stuff he does wont be noticed like blocking out other players, he isnt flashy and wont rack up 30 possies every week but he gives us a genuine hard body around the ball which helps when Cripps is playing forward which looks like is going to happen more and more to help boost our scoring.
IMO we are better balanced now without Gibbs...Dow is quicker and just as capable of hitting targets and kicking goals, Obrien will take a while but I saw how he kicks the footy and he will be your Gaff type outside ball carrying type who just needs what Gaff did and thats games and some time to pick up the pace and extra physicality you get at senior level.
re: Daisy....think he will play most games, maybe miss a few games where he is being managed ie Interstaters.....Bolton and the players like him in the team, reckon thats the bottom line, leadership is still a bit iffy on the field and I think he adds to it....when you see players like Matty Wright and Thomas directing traffic it probably tells you we are still light on for real leaders especially losing Gibbs and Docherty..
Think Daisy will be better mid season when its more traditional footy and the pace is off the game with the cooler wet conditions and he can use his guile and experience to get a kick rather than having to do too much running in the fine weather chasing younger kids....
Ridiculous comment. He was one of our best.
Not interested in a slanging match. It's my opinion only in response to Thry's earlier post. As I said have nothing against him. Don't even think I've bagged him in the past? In fact was hoping that he'd come good, but thought he was very average. Seems like a reasonable team man but he's past it.
IMO
Think Daisy will be better mid season when its more traditional footy and the pace is off the game with the cooler wet conditions and he can use his guile and experience to get a kick rather than having to do too much running in the fine weather chasing younger kids....
Posters are all over this result like a rash, but it's JLT, it's JLT people.
The media are all talking up the strength of the squads, but.....just looking at our squad alone.
Docherty
Weitering
SPS
ACoS
Williamson
Rowe
Lang
O'Shea
All were not playing and I suspect they are all "currently in or around" the best 22 we can field when they are fit and ready.
Personally, I'm hope we take a horses for courses approach, and mix and match our selection heavily based on opponents. It's the one thing AFL teams should be capable of given their list size, and the one thing coaches and match committees do not do very well.
Kids like Dow and O'Brien might be specials, but they are going to fade through the season, even someone Cripps size and strength struggled/faded through his first real season. He was probably lucky he broke that leg, it seems to have changed his trajectory compared to the general playing population, and we think of his second season as his first. But in reality his first senior season came after two full pre-seasons.
The rigors of AFL will get them, they are just kids and the first game is always a high.
Posters are all over this result like a rash, but it's JLT, it's JLT people.
The media are all talking up the strength of the squads, but.....just looking at our squad alone.
Docherty
Weitering
SPS
ACoS
Williamson
Rowe
Lang
O'Shea
All were not playing and I suspect they are all "currently in or around" the best 22 we can field when they are fit and ready.
Personally, I'm hope we take a horses for courses approach, and mix and match our selection heavily based on opponents. It's the one thing AFL teams should be capable of given their list size, and the one thing coaches and match committees do not do very well.
Kids like Dow and O'Brien might be specials, but they are going to fade through the season, even someone Cripps size and strength struggled/faded through his first real season. He was probably lucky he broke that leg, it seems to have changed his trajectory compared to the general playing population, and we think of his second season as his first. But in reality his first senior season came after two full pre-seasons.
The rigors of AFL will get them, they are just kids and the first game is always a high.
Agree....horses for courses is how it should be and no doubt Dow, OBrien etc will need to be managed at stages as the season gets longer and young bodies tire.
I'll talk about Daisy. Thought he was terrible and wont be in the side round 1. Don't have anything against him but can't see him getting a game all year actually (baring serious injuries)
Yet statistically was one of our better performers, and our 7th highest posession getter on the ground.
I think he got busy right when the game was starting to get away from us too.
There are two types of underated player. Those who swim against the Tide, and those who do the sort of work that doesnt get noticed by the average pundit.
The ones that swim against the Tide are the most valuable to have as they have the capability of putting momentum back on your side.
In any case, Daisy is only ever spoken about when he is absolutely dreadful. The fact that no one else talked about him at all means he was actually pretty good for a bloke who is supposedly not best 22 material anymore.
I too thought Daisy was very ordinary and looks like the game has moved past him.
But, too be fair, i'm 1/3 way through watching a replay so i'll hold fire.
Watched the replay last night and being a little more relaxed noticed a few more things... just humble observations.
Liked Meat's game. Got better as the game wore on.
Hasn't been mentioned much, but I thought Daisy was also good.
Cuningham was disappointing. Might yet be Lucas mark II (Boekhorst was Lucas mark I).
Mullet must work on being, seemingly, frightened! Did some good things though. I suspect he's better suited to the wings than down back.
ZF is great the way he gets from contest to contest. Really good defensively, just like to see him take more possession and hurt the opposition more with disposal. He's a bloody little ripper though.
Garlett is going to be a beaut, genuine X factor.
Like to see Pickett be a whisker more selfish if that's the right word. The run down the wing was blistering, just trying to pass to a bloke when so close to goal was not the best choice - should have just nailed it, or passed off sooner.
Gee Kennedy did some great, unnoticed, work.
Like to see Pickett be a whisker more selfish if that's the right word. The run down the wing was blistering, just trying to pass to a bloke when so close to goal was not the best choice - should have just nailed it, or passed off sooner.
This bloke has no limits, in the right role he can be everything, in the wrong role he'll be nothing.
He needs to be off the accountability hook, like the way the Dawks play Rioli. Somebody else should be looking after or crippling Pickett's opponent, just like the Dawks do for Rioli. In the past we didn't have the bodies or attitudes, but we have them now, we have players who will push back! ;)
24 pages on a preseason game!!! Good to see we're up and about folks! Can't wait for 22 March!!
24 pages on a preseason game!!! Good to see we're up and about folks! Can't wait for 22 March!!
24 pages on a game we won. Winning is usually bad for business.
24 pages on a game we won. Winning is usually bad for business.
Novelty value? ;)
Docherty
Weitering
SPS
ACoS
Williamson
Rowe
Lang
O'Shea
So, excluding Doc given his knee, our best 22?
Well, 24 ended up playing Wednesday night. Of the above Weiters, SPS, Willo are walk up starts imo. Lang likely too.
So to fit three into the team, 5 need to go out...
Mullet (for Willo), Lamb (for Lang?) - then it starts to get really tough.
Should Byrne get dropped for Weiters (that's the essential swap?) given Byrne's great run off HB.
Who goes out for SPS? Most likely O'Brien at this stage or (dare I say it) Thomas. But Thomas offers more than the kid until the kid warrants selection.
Byrne or Thomas or Garlett? Byrne and Garlett ahead of Daisy for mine. I even suspect Plow might get some midfield time....giving Weiters a spot down back.
ACoS and Rowe going to find it tough with Plow and Marchy and Jones in form....as much as I like both the first mentioned blokes given their physicality.
Jones made a couple of blunders but he also did a lot of bloody remarkable things too..... if you save 7 goals and concede two i reckon you're well ahead.
Any by the by, you don't lose this ability!
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2015-11-24/cdraft-weitering-hl (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2015-11-24/cdraft-weitering-hl)
or
https://www.afldraftcentral.com.au/2015/10/08/2015-draft-profile-jacob-weitering/ (https://www.afldraftcentral.com.au/2015/10/08/2015-draft-profile-jacob-weitering/)
In terms of weaknesses, he does not have too many. He is not an athletic beast nor is he very quick off the mark. He disguises his lack of speed because he can anticipate situations before they happen, however Weitering is slower than other defenders in the draft crop.
This means for AFL level, he might struggle against the faster, more athletically gifted forwards such as Cam McCarthy or Lance Franklin, but would be at home against the stronger, brute forwards.
Carlton fans should not worry about his lack of speed, because the way he sets up and leads the back six as a unit. He is likely to be the kind of player than will listen intently and as he gains more confidence with his teammates, not be afraid to share his views on how to improve the side defensively.
Novelty value? ;)
Could be cookie.
The same McKay that is only a month younger than Weitering and taken the same draft?
He requires games more than Weitering does?
;D ;D ;D
Weitering is a backman.
McKay is a forward.
If one of them are going to get games as a forward, is it surprising that i want that one to be McKay?
Age is irrelevent. I want my forward to get games as a forward.
In terms of weaknesses, he does not have too many. He is not an athletic beast nor is he very quick off the mark. He disguises his lack of speed because he can anticipate situations before they happen, however Weitering is slower than other defenders in the draft crop.
This means for AFL level, he might struggle against the faster, more athletically gifted forwards such as Cam McCarthy or Lance Franklin, but would be at home against the stronger, brute forwards.
Carlton fans should not worry about his lack of speed, because the way he sets up and leads the back six as a unit. He is likely to be the kind of player than will listen intently and as he gains more confidence with his teammates, not be afraid to share his views on how to improve the side defensively.
Again, never questioned his ability, just where he sits on the pecking order.
Marchbank offers the same anticipation and play reading that Weitering offers, but in a quicker, more agile package.
Jones is obviously quicker and has no issues reading the play.
Plowman is quicker and reads the play as well.
So, weiterings biggest asset, is reading the play. His biggest weakness is his speed/agility.
Out of the 4, we don't gain anything different by including weitering, and dropping one of the others. We do lose speed and flexibility though....which is my point. For team balance, it might be best if we go with the other 3 only.
Never said he isn't talented.
What is relevant is saying you would rather drop weitering (who desperately needs games as much as anyone) to get games into another player, regardless of which player.
I like Harry and think he could be great, but weirering so far is both a more effective forward and defender
What is relevant is saying you would rather drop weitering (who desperately needs games as much as anyone) to get games into another player, regardless of which player.
I like Harry and think he could be great, but weirering so far is both a more effective forward and defender
McKay has played 2 games, so yes, Weitering is more effective as a forward thus far.
However, based on potential, McKay has a higher ceiling up forward and i want to see how close he can get to it.
Play Weitering in front of Casboult if you wish, but McKay needs games more than anyone.
If he isn't up to it, we need to draft someone who is.
We KNOW weitering can play in defense, and he will, but as a forward he shouldn't get priority
I thought Ed's ball use was pretty good, and his work in the defensive 50 was excellent. He will be one of the first players picked for some time to come.
Interestingly, Simmo was picking up a taller opponent on many occasions.
O'Brien had a night to forget (perfectly understandable) and Jones made some errors that, while excusable in a novice defender, could cost us a game during the real season.
Dont get the last bit, he made the mistakes but we still won, how would it have made a difference if it was H&A?
McKay has played 2 games, so yes, Weitering is more effective as a forward thus far.
However, based on potential, McKay has a higher ceiling up forward and i want to see how close he can get to it.
Play Weitering in front of Casboult if you wish, but McKay needs games more than anyone.
If he isn't up to it, we need to draft someone who is.
We KNOW weitering can play in defense, and he will, but as a forward he shouldn't get priority
Your logic is flawed, Weitering is the same age and requires games every bit as much as Harry does. The fact he is further in front (and by a fair way) suggests that you need to keep playing him or he risks falling back.
The club needs to do everything it can to ensure Weiters is playing each week he is fit. This guy could go on to be the next Rance such is the quality he has shown at such a young age.
I don't buy into any logic that suggests there is no place for Weitering for balance or otherwise. He would simply walk if that was the case and if I was his manager I would be advising him if the club doesn't rate him to walk and if i was his father I would be doing the same.
Thank goodness that is very unlikely to happen, Weitering would need to fall a long way to not be a first team selection.
Your logic is flawed, Weitering is the same age and requires games every bit as much as Harry does. The fact he is further in front (and by a fair way) suggests that you need to keep playing him or he risks falling back.
Why is it flawed? Because i prefer Harry to play forward?
I've already suggested that if the club wanted to play Weitering forward instead of Casboult, i'd be more in favour of it than if it was instead of McKay.
So because Weitering (20) is young he gets games and pushes another player out of the side who might be a couple years older like Marchbank (21), Plowman (23).
So does that mean that we have to play Dow and O'Brien in place of Murphy?
Or perhaps we should play Williamson instead of Simpson?
Of course that is silly because the older players offer the team more.
Oh wait.
:-[
Why is Weitering above the law?
Why is it flawed? Because i prefer Harry to play forward?
I've already suggested that if the club wanted to play Weitering forward instead of Casboult, i'd be more in favour of it than if it was instead of McKay.
So because Weitering (20) is young he gets games and pushes another player out of the side who might be a couple years older like Marchbank (21), Plowman (23).
So does that mean that we have to play Dow and O'Brien in place of Murphy?
Or perhaps we should play Williamson instead of Simpson?
Of course that is silly because the older players offer the team more.
Oh wait.
:-[
Why is Weitering above the law?
Why do you keep saying he's bad for balance?
He is a highly talented kid.
Sounds like you want to make a name for yourself as the one that said it first.
Good luck with that, he can play
However, based on potential, McKay has a higher ceiling up forward and i want to see how close he can get to it.
That isn't based in fact, it's your opinion.
Weitering has kicked far bigger bags of goals as a junior than McKay, I watched Weitering as a U16 kick 15 goals in a game, and given the opposition was questionable, not his opponent but the team on the whole, I went to watch him playing a senior AGS game and kick 6 playing as the CHB in a game surrounded by other AFL draftees!
Even so, he should be our long term KPD, he is clearly our Harry Taylor type and players like Marchbank and Plowman can set up around him for the next decade.
Not that I'm anti-McKay, but I see him as a ruck forward option within just a few years.
Why do you keep saying he's bad for balance?
He is a highly talented kid.
Sounds like you want to make a name for yourself as the one that said it first.
Good luck with that, he can play
I've already explained that several times. Clubs play smaller/quicker forward lines nowadays. There simply might not be a matchup for him. Yes, we can play him and yes he is talented. But so is Jones, Marchbank and Plowman. You know Rowe is also talented. A. Silvagni can't do much wrong either. BUT, you can't fit them all into 1 backline. What about Macreadie and Willo?
We have an abundance of talented defenders. They all can't play. If we choose a backline to play on a smaller/quicker type forwardline
Making a name for myself is not something i have interest in.
I feel that with the tools that Harry has, quicker on the lead and more agile, he has more of a chance of being a better forward than Weitering.
I feel that with Jones, Marchbank and Plowman in defense, they can take on the majority of the forwards they will come up against...and should something go wrong, they can switch it up matchup wise.
This is not a recent problem. I've thought our list has been too defender heavy for a long time now. We are just in a position where they are all becoming AFL quality at the same time. Someone might have to miss out. Would i be more popular if i said Marchbank might be playing 2's? Well, its not about being popular, its about balance and the opposition and IMHO Weitering might get the short straw.
That does not mean i don't rate him. That means i don't think we can fit all our talented defenders into a back 6.
Even MIO has admitted last season he had Marchbank and Plowman rated higher than Weitering, and although he didn't confirm (or deny), pretty sure Jones was too. So by his own estimation he has Weitering as the 4th best defender.
That isn't based in fact, it's your opinion.
Weitering has kicked far bigger bags of goals as a junior than McKay, I watched Weitering as a U16 kick 15 goals in a game, and given the opposition was questionable, not his opponent but the team on the whole, I went to watch him playing a senior AGS game and kick 6 playing as the CHB in a game surrounded by other AFL draftees!
Even so, he should be our long term KPD, he is clearly our Harry Taylor type and players like Marchbank and Plowman can set up around him for the next decade.
Not that I'm anti-McKay, but I see him as a ruck forward option within just a few years.
Big kid, picking on smaller kids. AFL level is a different kettle of fish.
He's played forward and done ok a couple times....and gone completely missing other times.
He may well turn out to be better than Harry up forward, but he is not great on the lead, isn't as good of a contested mark and doesn't have the same kinda aggression as Harry does.
I've got more question marks over Harry than i do over Weiters, but if both lived up to their potential as a forward, i can't see Weiters being better than Harry. Of course, living up to the potential is the key. Plenty don't.
Dont get the last bit, he made the mistakes but we still won, how would it have made a difference if it was H&A?
Greater intensity in the proper season G2C. An outside of the boot torpedo that misses its target could make the difference between a W and an L.
I thought Daisy was one of our better players but he needs to play the percentages.
Greater intensity in the proper season G2C. An outside of the boot torpedo that misses its target could make the difference between a W and an L.
I thought Daisy was one of our better players but he needs to play the percentages.
Daisy was brilliant early.
He did some questionable things later, but....
Eddie Maguire spoke on triple m this morning about the lights at Ikon Park. He said they were terrible in our game, and terrible in his game. He said he spoke to a senior player who played in our game (didn't say which team) about the lights and unnamed player said it was very bad. A couple of times "players came out of nowhere" and you couldn't see the pick up the ball well enough to judge it sometimes.
Which senior player do you reckon Eddie Maguire just happened to have a chat too? My money is on Daisy as i'd doubt he'd have the number of many others...and truth be told, we don't even have many senior players on our list....nor the saints.
So....perhaps some of the silly things that Daisy and the others did on the night (and Curnofides springs to mind as well) were because players came out of the shadows and surprised them.
Either way, he suggested that the ground is unsafe for night footy, and at least partly that is because of the local residents, and something needs to be done because its a health and safety risk.
Might also explain Dow losing his teeth.
Watched the replay last night and being a little more relaxed noticed a few more things... just humble observations.
Liked Meat's game. Got better as the game wore on.
Yes, I thought so too. His lead, mark and goal from the Dow pass was top class forward play. However, Levi did some good work up the ground including a good spoil in the defensive 50. Interestingly, McKay did a fair bit of work up the ground too. Is that part of the plan for 2018?
Hasn't been mentioned much, but I thought Daisy was also good.
Daisy was one of our better players but some of his decision making and skills execution was terrible. He needs to eliminate that rubbish from his game.
Cuningham was disappointing. Might yet be Lucas mark II (Boekhorst was Lucas mark I).
I thought Cuningham was good - but we’ve had differing opinions about him before 8)
I thought he attacked the footy and used it well when he got it. He may have been hampered by the leg injury but I reckon he did more than enough to earn another run.
Mullet must work on being, seemingly, frightened! Did some good things though. I suspect he's better suited to the wings than down back.
I didn’t really notice Mullett. That could be a good thing, or a bad thing :-\
ZF is great the way he gets from contest to contest. Really good defensively, just like to see him take more possession and hurt the opposition more with disposal. He's a bloody little ripper though.
Young Zac is like a bee in a bottle. Hopefully he will find a little more composure and be able to make better use of the footy. His defensive intensity is first class but I’d like to see us get more value from his high work rate.
Garlett is going to be a beaut, genuine X factor.
I think you’re right Baggers. The tackle that injured his shoulder was a ripper!
Like Pickett (below), he needs to be more involved in the game,
Like to see Pickett be a whisker more selfish if that's the right word. The run down the wing was blistering, just trying to pass to a bloke when so close to goal was not the best choice - should have just nailed it, or passed off sooner.
Yes, if you’re going to go for a run, you have to have a shot or dish off early.
Pickett’s confidence in his ability to burn off the opposition is a good sign. I’d like to see him be more involved in the game.
Gee Kennedy did some great, unnoticed, work.
Yes, I think I was anticipating more of a finishing role but Kennedy is a genuine hard nut and his attack on the footy - and anyone who gets between him and the footy - will make a huge difference. As I said previously, Murphy will be a beneficiary, but I think that Ed Curnow’s workload will be lightened too.
Big kid, picking on smaller kids. AFL level is a different kettle of fish.
That's not reality.
Weitering wasn't even as tall as his CHF opponent in the AGS game he kicked 6, and in the MPFNL game he and Kieran Collins were against some very serious opponents even if the majority of the opposition team was ordinary.
btw., It's no accident we took Weitering at No.1, given he played several times in front of SOS(SOS at GWS and Carlton) and Brendan Bolton(Still at Hawthorn at the time), SOS had all the exposure he needed to make the decision and I doubt Bolton needed encouragement! ;)
Daisy was brilliant early.
He did some questionable things later, but....
Eddie Maguire spoke on triple m this morning about the lights at Ikon Park. He said they were terrible in our game, and terrible in his game. He said he spoke to a senior player who played in our game (didn't say which team) about the lights and unnamed player said it was very bad. A couple of times "players came out of nowhere" and you couldn't see the pick up the ball well enough to judge it sometimes.
Which senior player do you reckon Eddie Maguire just happened to have a chat too? My money is on Daisy as i'd doubt he'd have the number of many others...and truth be told, we don't even have many senior players on our list....nor the saints.
So....perhaps some of the silly things that Daisy and the others did on the night (and Curnofides springs to mind as well) were because players came out of the shadows and surprised them.
Either way, he suggested that the ground is unsafe for night footy, and at least partly that is because of the local residents, and something needs to be done because its a health and safety risk.
Might also explain Dow losing his teeth.
I don’t think so.
Dow lost his tooth because his mouth guard was in his sock.
Reverse torpedoes off the outside of the boot aren’t the most obvious way to compensate for poor lighting ::)
Other players coped OK and our disposal efficiency was generally very good.
Daisy was brilliant early.
He did some questionable things later, but....
Eddie Maguire spoke on triple m this morning about the lights at Ikon Park. He said they were terrible in our game, and terrible in his game. He said he spoke to a senior player who played in our game (didn't say which team) about the lights and unnamed player said it was very bad. A couple of times "players came out of nowhere" and you couldn't see the pick up the ball well enough to judge it sometimes.
Which senior player do you reckon Eddie Maguire just happened to have a chat too? My money is on Daisy as i'd doubt he'd have the number of many others...and truth be told, we don't even have many senior players on our list....nor the saints.
So....perhaps some of the silly things that Daisy and the others did on the night (and Curnofides springs to mind as well) were because players came out of the shadows and surprised them.
Either way, he suggested that the ground is unsafe for night footy, and at least partly that is because of the local residents, and something needs to be done because its a health and safety risk.
Might also explain Dow losing his teeth.
Why are you guessing so much tonight, have you a bad day?
Dow lost his teeth right on the boundary line in one of the brightest parts of the ground.
Perhaps the unsafe lighting complaint came from an Aints player making excuses, that just as if not more likely than to have come from any Carlton player, after all we all like to complain when we win! ;D
It could also be more Maguire bullsh1t!
Players were cleanly clunking 50m with the wind bullet passes!
btw., The AFL supply the extra match lighting! The media types have their back up now that the AFL have come out and said tough sh1t we ain't changing the lights. ;)
One thing that amused/annoyed me was the commentators continually making excuses for St Kilda, eg "Carlton needs to win this more than St Kilda!" ::)
The commentary team was unbalanced with Riewoldt and Del Santo talking to and about their mates but, throughout the telecast, there was an expectation that St Kilda would prevail. No credit was given to Bolton or our players for a solid win over a Saints team that was as close to their best 22 as we were >:(
Disappointingly I wasn't surprised by the commentary bias. Nothing new there. Except that it was at our spiritual home :-\
I was most fizzed off last season during our home game v Saints. Nick Dal was on the boundary. The half time break was filled with drivel about the Saints. I thought part of the home game gig was the club has promotional opportunities. Must've got that wrong I suppose >:(
Thought Kennedy was quiet but his 15 disposals was pretty good given he only played a bit over a half.
I'd say that's a great start in the first half at a new club on managed game time!
Right on track for game high disposals. Not bad at all. I really liked his commitment to the contest. When the midfield find their mojo the flow on benefits of his hard yakka will become apparent.
Disappointingly I wasn't surprised by the commentary bias. Nothing new there. Except that it was at our spiritual home :-\
I was most fizzed off last season during our home game v Saints. Nick Dal was on the boundary. The half time break was filled with drivel about the Saints. I thought part of the home game gig was the club has promotional opportunities. Must've got that wrong I suppose >:(
The amount of times these jokers said "St Kilda is now asserting its authority on this game" or words to that effect all but made me puke...
Liked Meat's game. Got better as the game wore on. He looks fitter, trimmer and more agile than I have ever seen him before
Like to see Pickett be a whisker more selfish if that's the right word. The run down the wing was blistering, I would like to see him use some of that blistering pace when he doesn't have the ball and become more of a 2-way player
Gee Kennedy did some great, unnoticed, work. Not completely unnoticed
A lot of games this season will rely on the work of Kreuzer and Cripps.
I don’t think so.
Dow lost his tooth because his mouth guard was in his sock.
Reverse torpedoes off the outside of the boot aren’t the most obvious way to compensate for poor lighting ::)
Other players coped OK and our disposal efficiency was generally very good.
Dow lost his tooth because he got a hip and shoulder from an opponent he didn't see, but yes, his mouth guard was in his sock.
Reverse torpedos it not something you plan to do, but if someone jumps out of the shadows you throw it on the boot ASAP, that might be the result.
Charlie did similar. I don't think thats in his normal reportore either.
Players, commentators and now a club president has commented on how bad the light was. I'm not suggesting 100% of the ground was in complete darkness, but where there is smoke there is fire.
Bit odd lighting situation, did something break down , or you would have thought they would have tested the lighting earlier to be up to some standard?
That's not reality.
Weitering wasn't even as tall as his CHF opponent in the AGS game he kicked 6, and in the MPFNL game he and Kieran Collins were against some very serious opponents even if the majority of the opposition team was ordinary.
btw., It's no accident we took Weitering at No.1, given he played several times in front of SOS(SOS at GWS and Carlton) and Brendan Bolton(Still at Hawthorn at the time), SOS had all the exposure he needed to make the decision and I doubt Bolton needed encouragement! ;)
When i say that i'm not talking simple about height and weight.
I've got no doubt that taking Weitering was the right thing to do.
But as an example in regards to the difference between U18s and AFL.
First game i saw of Bryce Gibbs was when he playing for SA. 3/4 time the commentators were pumping him up. Bryce has had 30 possessions, kicked 3(?) goals and is now going to have a rest at CHB.
Bryce Gibbs is a gun player, best we could've taken at that pick and despite being one of the youngest drafted, was still beating up on kids. An AFL CHB option he clearly is not.
Paul Bower was AA CHB in U18's.
Whatever they were before is irrelevent. How they perform at AFL level is what matters now.
Jones, Marchbank and Plowman are simply performing better than Weitering has been in defence. Why are people trying to paint this as something other than that.
You know what, Lockett, Ablett and Dunstall didn't make the AA teams every year because you can't fit them all in the side at once. That doesn't diminish their talent!
The amount of times these jokers said "St Kilda is now asserting its authority on this game" or words to that effect all but made me puke...
“StKilda are coming” - 5 goals down in the last with 10 mins to play!!
Peter Ryan has an article in today’s Age in which he analyses St Kilda’s options for “taking the next step”. He effectively dismisses their loss to us with the statement:
The Blues adapted more quickly to the windy conditions kicking the first four goals but the Saints outscored them, and controlled plenty of play from that point on.
Yes, we did adapt quickly and our defenders playing several metres in front of their opponents in the first quarter led to many intercept possessions and forward thrusts.
It is true that the Saints outscored us - by five points - but that has little meaning when you are trying to make up a 27 point deficit. The fact that we outscored them in the last quarter - against the wind - is pertinent.
I’m not really sure that they “controlled plenty of play” either. They certainly strung together some good passages of play, and we did get a couple of goals against the flow, but I reckon we were more in control.
I guess it’s a reasonable article but why dismiss what was well planned and well executed victory?
We played the conditions better than the saints.
We did have home ground advantage to assist in this though.
...and its JLT.
St Kilda kicked appallingly, straighten that up and I think they would’ve won.
I liked our endeavor and increased tempo, bring on the real stuff !
When i say that i'm not talking simple about height and weight.
I've got no doubt that taking Weitering was the right thing to do.
But as an example in regards to the difference between U18s and AFL.
First game i saw of Bryce Gibbs was when he playing for SA. 3/4 time the commentators were pumping him up. Bryce has had 30 possessions, kicked 3(?) goals and is now going to have a rest at CHB.
Bryce Gibbs is a gun player, best we could've taken at that pick and despite being one of the youngest drafted, was still beating up on kids. An AFL CHB option he clearly is not.
Paul Bower was AA CHB in U18's.
Whatever they were before is irrelevent. How they perform at AFL level is what matters now.
Jones, Marchbank and Plowman are simply performing better than Weitering has been in defence.
Why are people trying to paint this as something other than that.
You know what, Lockett, Ablett and Dunstall didn't make the AA teams every year because you can't fit them all in the side at once. That doesn't diminish their talent!
Errrr.... weitering hasn't played a game yet.
Errrr.... weitering hasn't played a game yet.
Last year knucklehead
Peter Ryan has an article in today’s Age in which he analyses St Kilda’s options for “taking the next step”. He effectively dismisses their loss to us with the statement:
Yes, we did adapt quickly and our defenders playing several metres in front of their opponents in the first quarter led to many intercept possessions and forward thrusts.
It is true that the Saints outscored us - by five points - but that has little meaning when you are trying to make up a 27 point deficit. The fact that we outscored them in the last quarter - against the wind - is pertinent.
I’m not really sure that they “controlled plenty of play” either. They certainly strung together some good passages of play, and we did get a couple of goals against the flow, but I reckon we were more in control.
I guess it’s a reasonable article but why dismiss what was well planned and well executed victory?
"Forget the result" says Peter Ryan - I'd accept that if they'd played their kids or threw them around positionally. But they didn't - and they really wanted to win. They seemed to throw everything at that game and had their first choice midfield in the middle for the bulk of the game. We seemed to be putting time into some experimental centre square setups with Cripps often absent - and we had 2 fewer players!
"Forget the result"... I'm sure Richardson won't be.
They got beaten by a team that was pulling away (against the wind).
Last year knucklehead
Carrying injuries no?
Carrying injuries no?
Wasn't han solo there.
"Forget the result" says Peter Ryan - I'd accept that if they'd played their kids or threw them around positionally. But they didn't - and they really wanted to win. They seemed to throw everything at that game and had their first choice midfield in the middle for the bulk of the game. We seemed to be putting time into some experimental centre square setups with Cripps often absent - and we had 2 fewer players!
"Forget the result"... I'm sure Richardson won't be.
They got beaten by a team that was pulling away (against the wind).
Not quite.
I noticed jack Steven spent most of the first half as a forward. He went into the guts after half time and had a big impact which coincided with our fade out.
It's jlt. We are a young side probably in going as well as it will go for most of the year and our kids are still getting the hang of it. I estimate we'd be at our "best" for 2018 now, whilst the more mature sides might be training harder now, and might also be going through the motions a little on game day until "the real stuff" starts.
Big kid, picking on smaller kids. AFL level is a different kettle of fish.
When i say that i'm not talking simple about height and weight.
I don't think I need to debate that one, you've put it quite succinctly! ;D
He's played forward and done ok a couple times....and gone completely missing other times.
He may well turn out to be better than Harry up forward, but he is not great on the lead, isn't as good of a contested mark and doesn't have the same kinda aggression as Harry does.
Firstly, that'll be a couple of more times than Harry so far, but I'm not going to get drawn into a debate about who is the best forward because that is just you trying to justify your comments that there is no spot for Weitering, which is just a completely ludicrous statement!
Claiming Weitering is not as good of a contested mark, that's just a sign of desperation or deflection!
I've got more question marks over Harry than i do over Weiters, but if both lived up to their potential as a forward, i can't see Weiters being better than Harry. Of course, living up to the potential is the key. Plenty don't.
We had first pick in the 2015 national draft, don't take offence Kruddler but I think I'll trust SOS and Bolts on this one they have a pretty reasonable track record going on as far as recruitment is concerned, and they took Weitering ahead of both Harry and Charlie. That's a hell of a tell!
"Forget the result" says Peter Ryan - I'd accept that if they'd played their kids or threw them around positionally. But they didn't - and they really wanted to win. They seemed to throw everything at that game and had their first choice midfield in the middle for the bulk of the game. We seemed to be putting time into some experimental centre square setups with Cripps often absent - and we had 2 fewer players!
"Forget the result"... I'm sure Richardson won't be.
They got beaten by a team that was pulling away (against the wind).
Well said.
I don't buy the 'it's only JLT' stuff. Yes, sides might experiment a little here and there but they all want to win. Plus there's only 2 matches this year so sides really want to hit the ground running for the season proper.
In the same game last year the Aints beat us by almost 100 pts, that's after the D's also gave us an almighty thrashing at Casey Fields.
The win had genuine merit. The Aints threw everything at us after half-time and I suspect they fully expected win/over run us. But we held our nerve, absorbed their surge and went on to win. Yes, we jumped them but we protected that 3-4 goal jump for the game.
The win had genuine merit. The Aints threw everything at us after half-time and I suspect they fully expected win/over run us. But we held our nerve, absorbed their surge and went on to win. Yes, we jumped them but we protected that 3-4 goal jump for the game.
Absa bloody lutely.
Sure we jumper them, but that was because we startred with a patch of darn good footy and they simply weren't good enough to stem the flow.
Heck, if Murphy had slotted that easy goal (one which he'd normally nail 9.9 out of 10) the lead could hve been even more substantial at quarter time (and someone elsed missed a gimme too).
THe win would have given the lads immense self belief (especially given the manner of the Saints smashing us in recent years).
Think we'll take care of the Dawks very comfortably.
The idiots can talk us down as much as they like. If some other clubs believe the 'scribes', then we have a chance to rub their noses in it. After all, wins talk much better than honourable losses.
The idiots can talk us down as much as they like. If some other clubs believe the 'scribes', then we have a chance to rub their noses in it. After all, wins talk much better than honourable losses.
Agreed - since when does anyone listen to the press? They are only good at stating the bleeding obvious after everyone else has already noticed, and as for predictions, they will spend most of the year giving excuses as to why their prognostications were miles off the mark.
TBH, a season with limited expectations and the chance to try some more free-wheeling football may be just what this group needs at the moment. And we have already seen in the last couple of seasons that if a bunch of young guys get on a roll, anything can happen.
I don't think I need to debate that one, you've put it quite succinctly! ;D
I'm talking mentally as well. Which i thought was clear from the Gibbs comparison. Both are smarter than the blokes they played against underage. More disciplined. More level headed. More focussed.
Firstly, that'll be a couple of more times than Harry so far, but I'm not going to get drawn into a debate about who is the best forward because that is just you trying to justify your comments that there is no spot for Weitering, which is just a completely ludicrous statement!
Claiming Weitering is not as good of a contested mark, that's just a sign of desperation or deflection!
McKay outmarked Casboult a couple of times against the saints. He is very physical in the air. Is taller and more physical in contests. Weitering is a better reader of the ball. Both are good, but McKay is a better pack mark. Weitering might be a better 1 on 1, might.
We had first pick in the 2015 national draft, don't take offence Kruddler but I think I'll trust SOS and Bolts on this one they have a pretty reasonable track record going on as far as recruitment is concerned, and they took Weitering ahead of both Harry and Charlie. That's a hell of a tell!
...and i've already said i would've done the same. At the time we didn't have Jones, Marchbank or Plowman dominating.
Its a bit like when we took Kreuzer with #1 pick. At the time, we lacked a #1 ruckman. However, Sauce Jacobs, Hampson and even Warnock all came on to some extent which meant we had an embarrassment of riches in that area at the time. Obviously they all couldn't play. Obviously, we ended up letting Jacobs go because he wasn't getting a game.
As with Weitering, Jacobs leaving had nothing to do with talent. It had to do with where he was in the pecking order.
I have absolutely nothing against Weitering. I love him as much as the next bloke. I just feel that him playing, in certain situations, may work into the oppositions hands if there is no matchup for him.
Answer me this.
Who does he play on against Richmond?
I can see the point kruddler is making. Apple Computer developed Mac OS X to the point where it could run on both PowerPC and Intel processors - Steve Jobs said (something like) "we now have options, and as anyone will tell you, it's good to have options."
Our back 6, or back 15 or whatever the number is, has enough personnel to give us some good flexibility, and good options, which on paper and in theory, may mean that at certain times, Weets won't be one of those defenders. But in reality, I think the club will play him, no matter what.
Answer me this.
Who does he play on against Richmond?
Weitering should be doing for us what Taylor does for Geelong, Rance does for Nthmond or Gibson did for the Dawks. He should be our main 3rd man up intercept marking player, it's clearly his strength and we've failed to have a structure that allows him to play his game. They don't really play on anybody because their job is to get to as many marking contests as possible and make the extra numbers. I'm pegging he's a certainty if fit to be selected for that very reason, even if he hadn't lead the intercept marking before we tried to make him a forward.
I'm also expecting him to be one of the better ball users from the back half, he's got the skills he just needs the experience to make the majority of his decisions the correct one.
A lot of posters talk about him losing confidence, that is based on hesitations and poor apparent disposal, but a lot of that comes from the players around him and up the ground not doing what they should be doing. It's no different to that Daisy chip-and-run last weekend, which was a result of no KPF leading up the wing at the ball carrier. The problem wasn't Daisy, it was further up the field.
Weitering should be doing for us what Taylor does for Geelong, Rance does for Nthmond or Gibson did for the Dawks. He should be our main 3rd man up intercept marking player, it's clearly his strength and we've failed to have a structure that allows him to play his game. They don't really play on anybody because their job is to get to as many marking contests as possible and make the extra numbers. I'm pegging he's a certainty if fit to be selected for that very reason, even if he hadn't lead the intercept marking before we tried to make him a forward.
I'm also expecting him to be one of the better ball users from the back half, he's got the skills he just needs the experience to make the majority of his decisions the correct one.
A lot of posters talk about him losing confidence, that is based on hesitations and poor apparent disposal, but a lot of that comes from the players around him and up the ground not doing what they should be doing. It's no different to that Daisy chip-and-run last weekend, which was a result of no KPF leading up the wing at the ball carrier. The problem wasn't Daisy, it was further up the field.
Rance and Gibson are more mobile, faster and more athletic than weets. Not sure about Taylor. The other issue is that Richmond or any other team are unlikely to leave weitering unmanned for long. The other side of the argument is that he has a very good footy brain and is a very good reader of the play, which mitigates to some extent the lack of leg speed. An interesting discussion for the selection committee IMO.
Weitering should be doing for us what Taylor does for Geelong, Rance does for Nthmond or Gibson did for the Dawks. He should be our main 3rd man up intercept marking player, it's clearly his strength and we've failed to have a structure that allows him to play his game. They don't really play on anybody because their job is to get to as many marking contests as possible and make the extra numbers. I'm pegging he's a certainty if fit to be selected for that very reason, even if he hadn't lead the intercept marking before we tried to make him a forward.
I'm also expecting him to be one of the better ball users from the back half, he's got the skills he just needs the experience to make the majority of his decisions the correct one.
A lot of posters talk about him losing confidence, that is based on hesitations and poor apparent disposal, but a lot of that comes from the players around him and up the ground not doing what they should be doing. It's no different to that Daisy chip-and-run last weekend, which was a result of no KPF leading up the wing at the ball carrier. The problem wasn't Daisy, it was further up the field.
Marchbank plays the intercept marking player as does OShea if and when he gets a game, we need true KP players to take the gorilla's...we have Jones, but then look to ACOS and Rowe when fit....
Weitering was recruited to play true KP IMO and to take the likes of Kennedy, Dixon, Lynch, Buddy, Hawkins etc but we now know they are probably not his ideal opponents and he doesnt enjoy the physical push and shove stuff and prefers the intercept role...
We cant have everyone wanting the easy role down back, some have to play proper defense and man up their opponent...
Marchbank plays the intercept marking player as does OShea if and when he gets a game, we need true KP players to take the gorilla's...we have Jones, but then look to ACOS and Rowe when fit....
Weitering was recruited to play true KP IMO and to take the likes of Kennedy, Dixon, Lynch, Buddy, Hawkins etc but we now know they are probably not his ideal opponents and he doesnt enjoy the physical push and shove stuff and prefers the intercept role...
We cant have everyone wanting the easy role down back, some have to play proper defense and man up their opponent...
Exactly EB.
Jones will likely take them as Weiters is not suited to them.
...and as you say, Marchbank plays a similar zone off role, and offers the ability to play on smaller/quicker players if need be. Ditto Plowman, albeit a smaller version of both.
@LP..
In regards to playing a zone defense, that is fine, but the opposition won't allow it 100% of the time.
Eventually players will have to find a man, and i'd expect Richmond to exploit someone like Weiters on the lead and/or with double/triple leads.
Put simply.
Weiters has not thus far been able to mind the gorillas.
Weiters has not been able to play on the small agile types.
Weiters might not have a suitable opponent to play on.
The blokes we already have in our side, are capable of doing the same things that Weiters excels at - Reading the play, zoning off and using the ball well.
I expect him to get games....most likely more than half the games for the year.
However, if we pick a side to match the opposition, i suspect of the 4, he'd be the one most likely to be left out.
The bloke is just 20 ffs.
Has he even stopped growing? I reckon he's a tad taller and quite a few kg heavier than our public stats suggest....
At 195cm+ and 95kg+ clearly in the size bracket suitable of taking most KPP forwards....
Lot of people saying he can and can't do this or that or he won't be able to do this or that...
My reckoning? The guy will become AA in 2019 (if not before) and stay in that bracket for a darn long time....
Rowe and ASOS both north of 30 i think, Jones 27 odd.
There's a spot for Jacob every day of the week....
There's a spot for Jacob every day of the week....
Yep
You cant have your captain not playing ;) :D
We cant have everyone wanting the easy role down back, some have to play proper defense and man up their opponent...
That's not an easy role, how can you say that? The role that Rance, Gibson and Taylor are lauded for is not the easy role! ;)
Jones will likely take them as Weiters is not suited to them.
Jones wants to run and jump at everything, he's far less of a body on body type than Weitering. :o
...and as you say, Marchbank plays a similar zone off role, and offers the ability to play on smaller/quicker players if need be. Ditto Plowman, albeit a smaller version of both.
No wonder we are no good, everyone is intercept marking! :o
In regards to playing a zone defense, that is fine, but the opposition won't allow it 100% of the time.
Eventually players will have to find a man, and i'd expect Richmond to exploit someone like Weiters on the lead and/or with double/triple leads.
Aerobically Weitering is one of the clubs highest rated talls, as I understand it he is only bettered by Kreuzer and Cripps!
Seriously Kruddler, you are clutching at straws trying to justify comments that are unfounded.
Weitering kicked 3 goals playing on Rance!
Rotated with ACoS on Franklin in our early season victory.
Kept Ben Brown to a single goal!
Covered Himmelberg the following week.
The dealt with 2M Peter the week after!
Played great games on Darling, Schoenmakers and was one of our best if not the best on ground in the last round thumping at the hands of the Swans.
Yeah, the kids a spud who can't play tall, small, forward, fast or anything in between!
What are you smoking! ;D
I dont think Weitering has enjoyed the physical stuff since he was first injured, I think that shoulder injury did a lot of damage to his confidence and woke him up to the fact there are a lot of big bodies out there and its not U18 footy anymore where he was one of the big boys.
IMO it will take some time to get his full mojo back and moving him forward was as much about helping him recover some confidence as well as giving the forward line a different look.
The bloke is just 20 ffs.
Has he even stopped growing? I reckon he's a tad taller and quite a few kg heavier than our public stats suggest....
At 195cm+ and 95kg+ clearly in the size bracket suitable of taking most KPP forwards....
Lot of people saying he can and can't do this or that or he won't be able to do this or that...
My reckoning? The guy will become AA in 2019 (if not before) and stay in that bracket for a darn long time....
Rowe and ASOS both north of 30 i think, Jones 27 odd.
There's a spot for Jacob every day of the week....
Absolutely! If he's fit, he'll be in the 22.
What I like about Weitering (and it also applies to Marchbank and Plowman to a certain degree) is that he can stand genuine key position forwards or small and medium forwards. Of course, we know that he can also stand genuine key position defenders too.
Weitering may have had a couple of quiet games last season, but he still played every game and put in solid to very good performances in most games.
Yeah, the kids a spud who can't play tall, small, forward, fast or anything in between!
What are you smoking! ;D
I'd ask you the same thing if thats all you've got out of reading my posts.
I'd ask you the same thing if thats all you've got out of reading my posts.
You're wasting my time now, it's just a ridiculous position you have taken and the points you have tried to make have zero merit which makes then impossible to debate!
You should get a job with Trump, or lobby to have Carrots returned so you have a long meaningless debate with somebody!
Seriously Kruddler, you are clutching at straws trying to justify comments that are unfounded.
As they say, practice makes perfect! ::)
I'm allowed to have an opinion. Just because it is unpopular does not mean it is wrong.
I had the opinion that Fevola needed to be traded. Not many people on my side on that one, but hey, that happened. Right Jimbo? Still waiting on that apology, but you are not alone.
I had the opinion that we would struggle last year and end up bottom 3. Copped the same kind of abuse i'm getting now, but checks the ladder, yep, right again. Hey Flyboy...no apologies from you either.
Very few people have anything nice to say about Daisy. He's been 'retired' by most on here every year he's been on the list, yet he earned the right to a new contract of his own bat.
So, insult all you want, doesn't worry me.
I'm allowed to have an opinion. Just because it is unpopular does not mean it is wrong.
I had the opinion that Fevola needed to be traded. Not many people on my side on that one, but hey, that happened. Right Jimbo? Still waiting on that apology, but you are not alone.
I had the opinion that we would struggle last year and end up bottom 3. Copped the same kind of abuse i'm getting now, but checks the ladder, yep, right again. Hey Flyboy...no apologies from you either.
Very few people have anything nice to say about Daisy. He's been 'retired' by most on here every year he's been on the list, yet he earned the right to a new contract of his own bat.
So, insult all you want, doesn't worry me.
Of course you are allowed an opinion, and I'm not normally in position to expose comments from you that have such little merit. I'm use to you making statements that are in some-way supported in stats or facts. As is your Daisy debate which is why I support it as well.
But I cannot find anything to support your claims regarding Weitering, in fact it's too easy to find points to contradict it.
Of course you are allowed an opinion, but the right to have an opinion doesn't mean anyone has to take it seriously, that it's right or that it has merit. As you have your right to express an opinion, so do those who read it have right to question it. But all opinions are not created equally, and that is an unquestionable reality!
Insult?
Never.
The idiots can talk us down as much as they like. If some other clubs believe the 'scribes', then we have a chance to rub their noses in it. After all, wins talk much better than honourable losses.
I hope they do. It'll intensify the sting of losing to us just that bit more >:D
See what that does for their confidence and team belief ::)
We beat saints in JLT. EOS.
The rest is an attempt to justify weaknesses and inadequacies.
I hope they do. It'll intensify the sting of losing to us just that bit more >:D
See what that does for their confidence and team belief ::)
We beat saints in JLT. EOS.
The rest is an attempt to justify weaknesses and inadequacies.
We beat saints
very comfortably in JLT. EOS.
After 2 years of being smashed at the spiritual home, it was just nice to go along and see us have a win and play with a bit of flair (a bit like the old ‘Premiership Quarters’ at OO in the golden era). See opposition, beat opposition. You can do no more!!
After 2 years of being smashed at the spiritual home, it was just nice to go along and see us have a win and play with a bit of flair (a bit like the old ‘Premiership Quarters’ at OO in the golden era). See opposition, beat opposition. You can do no more!!
Agree 100%.
Ah the old 10 goal 3rd quarter - those were the days!
Ah the old 10 goal 3rd quarter - those were the days!
Pre-WADA! :o
Of course you are allowed an opinion, and I'm not normally in position to expose comments from you that have such little merit. I'm use to you making statements that are in some-way supported in stats or facts. As is your Daisy debate which is why I support it as well.
But I cannot find anything to support your claims regarding Weitering, in fact it's too easy to find points to contradict it.
Of course you are allowed an opinion, but the right to have an opinion doesn't mean anyone has to take it seriously, that it's right or that it has merit. As you have your right to express an opinion, so do those who read it have right to question it. But all opinions are not created equally, and that is an unquestionable reality!
The basis for my assertion is due to the fact that our backline has performed very well without weitering in it.
There is also a trend in the modern game to have a smaller more mobile forwardline.
If we can continue to perform well in our backline, especially against the more mobile forwardlines, leaving someone like Weitering out of our lineup, allows us to add another midfield type into the 22, adding depth and variety in an area we need it.
Its a simple equation...
Is Backline + Weitering + midfield => Midfield + 1 + Backline ??
There is potenially more of a benefit to our overall team if we have an extra midfielder simply because our backline is going so well.
Of course the additional midfield could also allow us to be fitter (more midfield rotations), and apply more pressure as a result meaning the backline is required to dop less work.
The basis for my assertion is due to the fact that our backline has performed very well without weitering in it.
There is also a trend in the modern game to have a smaller more mobile forwardline.
If we can continue to perform well in our backline, especially against the more mobile forwardlines, leaving someone like Weitering out of our lineup, allows us to add another midfield type into the 22, adding depth and variety in an area we need it.
Its a simple equation...
Is Backline + Weitering + midfield => Midfield + 1 + Backline ??
There is potenially more of a benefit to our overall team if we have an extra midfielder simply because our backline is going so well.
Of course the additional midfield could also allow us to be fitter (more midfield rotations), and apply more pressure as a result meaning the backline is required to dop less work.
Put simply.
Weiters has not thus far been able to mind the gorillas.
Weiters has not been able to play on the small agile types.
Weiters might not have a suitable opponent to play on.
The blokes we already have in our side, are capable of doing the same things that Weiters excels at - Reading the play, zoning off and using the ball well.
Kruddler, the points you made are not referencing the good performance of our backline, they were denigrating Weitering, and they are not supported by historical records.
Match records paint the exact opposite picture of the points you posted, and other posters refer to Weitering's poor start to 2017, yet in start to 2017 he stopped two gorillas, Ben Brown(200cm) and 2M Peter Wright(203cm), Ben Brown was top four in AFL Goal Kicking at the time. Then Weitering followed up those games later by covering three highly mobile opponents in Himmelberg(195cm), Darling(191cm) and Schoenmaker(195cm).
So can he play on gorillas, no doubt he's covered two 200cm FF types just last season!
Is he mobile enough to play on medium forwards, no doubt about that either!
Does he have suitable opponents to play on, well it seems so, if he can run with Darling, Himmelberg or Schoenmakers he's probably our perfect match for Riewoldt and/or the forward resting Nankervis!
Kruddler, the points you made are not referencing the good performance of our backline, they were denigrating Weitering, and they are not supported by historical records.
I think you've missed a few posts over the journey then.
I am comparing players that listing the pros and cons. I'm pointing out Weiterings cons. No cons were pointed out on the other backline members and there was a reason for that. They were playing beatuifully.
Jones' rise was obvious to all.
Marchbank was nominated as captain of AFLX squad
and Plowman is less decorated, but IMO no less important.
Match records paint the exact opposite picture of the points you posted, and other posters refer to Weitering's poor start to 2017, yet in start to 2017 he stopped two gorillas, Ben Brown(200cm) and 2M Peter Wright(203cm), Ben Brown was top four in AFL Goal Kicking at the time. Then Weitering followed up those games later by covering three highly mobile opponents in Himmelberg(195cm), Darling(191cm) and Schoenmaker(195cm).
So can he play on gorillas, no doubt he's covered two 200cm FF types just last season!
Is he mobile enough to play on medium forwards, no doubt about that either!
Does he have suitable opponents to play on, well it seems so, if he can run with Darling, Himmelberg or Schoenmakers he's probably our perfect match for Riewoldt and/or the forward resting Nankervis!
As for individual efforts, since the team plays a zone type defence where the majority of our players cover for eachother, its hard to say he and he alone was responsible for the scalps you suggest. Even so only Ben Brown is worthy of a mention....and he's only played 1 good season.
Where are the names like Hawkins? He got towelled up there.
Buddy? No, that was ASOS.
As for Riewoldt and Nankervis.
Jones will take reiwoldt and marchbank nankervis. Not saying Weitering can't play on them, just that it leaves us 1 tall too many against them.
I've repeatedly said that i have nothing against Weitering, but if i was picking a side for team balance against a smaller forwardline, i'd pick the other 3 ahead of him and would look at not picking him at all for that game.
Ah the old 10 goal 3rd quarter - those were the days!
I loved those days.
It didn't matter how many goals down we were at half time, we could always make it up in the 2nd half, and I remember that I would often think at 3 qtr time that as long as we were less than 4 goals down we were still a better than even chance of getting up for the win!!
Pre-WADA! :o
Pre draft and salary cap.
Some very disgruntled sniffers fans rang into SEN today.... Natives are getting restless with the perceived lack of progress. One described it as "year 8 of a flawed 7 year plan".
I got the feeling that a LOT more was expected of the sniffers last Wednesday.
Where are the names like Hawkins? He got towelled up there.
Jones was on Hawkins, Weitering took on Harry Taylor!
Buddy? No, that was ASOS.
Yet in Rnd 23 when we were flogged Weitering was clearly in our best, when some of those others folded.
As for Riewoldt and Nankervis.
Jones will take reiwoldt and marchbank nankervis. Not saying Weitering can't play on them, just that it leaves us 1 tall too many against them.
Jones won't play on a body on body type forward like Nankervis, he may take Reiwoldt but that will mean Jones is deep in defence which doesn't suit us at all! Jones is probably our fastest tall, we need him free across HB and leave Weitering deep at FB.
Some very disgruntled sniffers fans rang into SEN today.... Natives are getting restless with the perceived lack of progress. One described it as "year 8 of a flawed 7 year plan".
I got the feeling that a LOT more was expected of the sniffers last Wednesday.
Who are the sniffers?!
Who are the sniffers?!
The Aints
You must laugh at these Aints plebs.
Last week pre-game it was all about how strong the Aints list looked, comments like they were virtually full strength, winners all over the field, it will be a tough day for the blues, even the commentators bought into the bullsh1t!
This week they are "The Aints Back to full strength!" with four changes. But they have lost their No.1 ruckmen and another of the outs is also listed as a notable absentee!
B: J.Geary, N.Brown, D.Roberton
HB: J.Webster, J.Carlisle, S.Savage
C: J.Newnes, D.Armitage, J.Sinclair
HF: J.Billings, P.McCartin, J.Steele
F: J.Gresham, T.Membrey, J.Bruce
Foll: T.Hickey, S.Ross, J.Steven
I/C: L.Dunstan, B.Acres, K.Stevens, M.Weller, S.Gilbert, N.Coffield, H.Clark, R.Marshall
Emerg: J.Lonie, N.Wright, B.White, L.Austin
In: J.Billings, J.Bruce, T.Hickey, K.Stevens
Out: B.Long, B.Longer (injured), J.Lonie, N.Wright
Notable absentees: Billy Longer, Jack Lonie, Josh Battle, Hugh Goddard
Aints = Secret Code for Wanker! ;D
Jones won't play on a body on body type forward like Nankervis, he may take Reiwoldt but that will mean Jones is deep in defence which doesn't suit us at all! Jones is probably our fastest tall, we need him free across HB and leave Weitering deep at FB.
Jones is deep in defence almost every week.
I think it was his first game against GWS in our 1 point win. He took repeated goal saving marks within 10m of our goal line and i reckon he barely got outside 50 if at all.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Jones does his best work across the D50 arc, where he can run and jump at the contest, sometimes in conjunction with a quick break and a long disposal back into our forward half.
He is not a good disposer of the ball, you don't want him trying to hit targets off the goal line.
What I like about Jones is his ability to get to contests across the back half. He may punch the ball through from the goal square and follow it up with a spoil on the wing in the next play phase.
What I like about Jones is his ability to get to contests across the back half. He may punch the ball through from the goal square and follow it up with a spoil on the wing in the next play phase.
Yes I agree, he covers lots of ground so it's important that he has the opportunity. We do not want opposition dragging him to the goal square, and we do not want him kicking out or across goal.
He is more often than not the only man home when we get caught on the turnover.....
Made a couple of 'panic' errors against the Sainters but his good stuff easily cancelled out the bad....
Byrne, Marchbank and Plow clearly been given licence to roam as required....
To my mind Jones, Plow, Simmo and Marchy all very good players; hopefully Byrne will become something too.
Willo instead of Mullett seems an obvious move, the former offers everythings Mulett does but a bigger body and seemingly more aggression and can break the lines.
Can Willo kick long eg goals from outside the 50?
Hard to remember that Williamson still only 19. At 190cm, a good size....and looks to have bulked up in the off season.
He is more often than not the only man home when we get caught on the turnover.....
Made a couple of 'panic' errors against the Sainters but his good stuff easily cancelled out the bad....
Byrne, Marchbank and Plow clearly been given licence to roam as required....
To my mind Jones, Plow, Simmo and Marchy all very good players; hopefully Byrne will become something too.
Willo instead of Mullett seems an obvious move, the former offers everythings Mulett does but a bigger body and seemingly more aggression and can break the lines.
Can Willo kick long eg goals from outside the 50?
Hard to remember that Williamson still only 19. At 190cm, a good size....and looks to have bulked up in the off season.
Williamson is a no brainer IMO, should be in the best 22 and with his kicking and size I would play him on the wing and let him drift forward and kick some of those long range goals....
Mullet may have a place in the team but not ahead of Williamson IMO...
Agree EB1, should be a no brainer.... I'd even give O'Shea a crack ahead of Mullett....noting the former is as tall as Marchbank but Plow, Simmo and Marchy can all play small in any event.
O'Shea a great intercept marker - can't really have too many of them surely?
Agree EB1, should be a no brainer.... I'd even give O'Shea a crack ahead of Mullett....noting the former is as tall as Marchbank but Plow, Simmo and Marchy can all play small in any event.
O'Shea a great intercept marker - can't really have too many of them surely?
Mullett is more of a inclusion when you have a ultra small forward line like Richmond play IMO and you need the extra small defender, I prefer OShea or Byrne otherwise...
Of course then there is Weitering and ACOS...ACOS is the sort of player I would use vs special taller players like Buddy where he has had success, while lacking size he seems to have the nous to nullify these players.
We saw Jones ragdolled by Buddy but the smaller ACOS had him covered...
All in all a nice set of options if the selectors can get it right and be willing to pick players week by week to suit the opposition rather than just having a best 22 and being inflexible.....
All in all, I think we can say the defence is the least of our worries.
But the way we moved the ball forward (quickly and largely with precision) against the Saints was very encouraging - and good to watch.
Sure a few errors here and there, but I was really surprised how composed the players remained even when under the pump from a St Kilda revival.
We made the Saints look bloody ordinary to be honest.
You know what everyone, this argument regarding Weitering got me thinking about our "back 6" and what is our strongest lineup, and although you will tweak it for maximum benefit, I ended up with the following result:
Plowman----------Jones------------Simpson
Williamson-------Weitering---------Marchbank
Ciaran Byrne is the only other one I'd look at for that back 6 currently.
The rest need to crack in and earn one of those spots. We could even release at least 2 or 3 to play up field if required and bring in blokes like Alex Silvagni, Mullet, Rowe etc.
All in all, I think we can say the defence is the least of our worries.
But the way we moved the ball forward (quickly and largely with precision) against the Saints was very encouraging - and good to watch.
Sure a few errors here and there, but I was really surprised how composed the players remained even when under the pump from a St Kilda revival.
We made the Saints look bloody ordinary to be honest.
What he said.
You know what everyone, this argument regarding Weitering got me thinking about our "back 6" and what is our strongest lineup, and although you will tweak it for maximum benefit, I ended up with the following result:
Plowman----------Jones------------Simpson
Williamson-------Weitering---------Marchbank
Ciaran Byrne is the only other one I'd look at for that back 6 currently.
The rest need to crack in and earn one of those spots. We could even release at least 2 or 3 to play up field if required and bring in blokes like Alex Silvagni, Mullet, Rowe etc.
See, this is kinda what i've been talking about. Who from that lineup would play on the small forwards....say Eddie Betts.
The average height of that lineup is 191+. Simpson being the 'small' at 182 but at his age, i can't see him being able to keep up with the slippery types....and if Charlie Cameron was still there?? Not sure who his replacement would be, but i'm tipping there is at least 1 more small there.
See, this is kinda what i've been talking about. Who from that lineup would play on the small forwards....say Eddie Betts.
The average height of that lineup is 191+. Simpson being the 'small' at 182 but at his age, i can't see him being able to keep up with the slippery types....and if Charlie Cameron was still there?? Not sure who his replacement would be, but i'm tipping there is at least 1 more small there.
With 55 goals at an average of 2.3 a game in 2017 (In 2016 it was 75/3.1), not many in the comp seem to be able to play on Eddie.
See, this is kinda what i've been talking about. Who from that lineup would play on the small forwards....say Eddie Betts.
The average height of that lineup is 191+. Simpson being the 'small' at 182 but at his age, i can't see him being able to keep up with the slippery types....and if Charlie Cameron was still there?? Not sure who his replacement would be, but i'm tipping there is at least 1 more small there.
I'd even consider Garlett on the slippery types, as required.
Horses for course, hardly a new strategy?
Move on zkruddler, this has been discussd ad nauseum...
See, this is kinda what i've been talking about. Who from that lineup would play on the small forwards....say Eddie Betts.
The average height of that lineup is 191+. Simpson being the 'small' at 182 but at his age, i can't see him being able to keep up with the slippery types....and if Charlie Cameron was still there?? Not sure who his replacement would be, but i'm tipping there is at least 1 more small there.
I'm not sure that Thry's lineup would spend much time together on the ground. We would normally be rotating at least one defender off the bench and giving SOJ, Daisy, Ed and others time in the back half.
As for stopping Eddie, it would be more of a team effort to limit forward 50 entries but Plowman could do the job with a little help from his fellow defenders.
I'm not sure that Thry's lineup would spend much time together on the ground. We would normally be rotating at least one defender off the bench and giving SOJ, Daisy, Ed and others time in the back half.
As for stopping Eddie, it would be more of a team effort to limit forward 50 entries but Plowman could do the job with a little help from his fellow defenders.
Yep ..its about stopping supply, players like Betts, Martin, Gray etc are going to win most of the one on ones if you give them enough opportunities, doesnt matter who
plays on them.
What we dont want Rnd 1 is Martin alone with his opponent near the goal square ,we cant have players sucked up the ground or dragged to the opposite side giving Martin room...once that happens and he is alone with his man its as good as over, you see players like Hodge giving directions down back so players know what they are doing, hope we have the same happening. The backline is talented but with Docherty missing it probably lacks a bit of leadership....Simpson is experienced but not that type of player, maybe thats why I like ACOS playing as he more the type to General the defense.
See, this is kinda what i've been talking about. Who from that lineup would play on the small forwards....say Eddie Betts.
The average height of that lineup is 191+. Simpson being the 'small' at 182 but at his age, i can't see him being able to keep up with the slippery types....and if Charlie Cameron was still there?? Not sure who his replacement would be, but i'm tipping there is at least 1 more small there.
We don't need to worry about stopping their smalls if we intercept mark everything coming in and rebound efficiently (something else this team can do).
Even so, Tom Williamson is the man for that job.
What Im hoping is that teams are spending more time trying to stop us than we are them.
At some point, you have to stop worrying about how to stop a couple of players and play the best 22 for good team balance.
We don't need to worry about stopping their smalls if we intercept mark everything coming in and rebound efficiently (something else this team can do).
Even so, Tom Williamson is the man for that job.
What Im hoping is that teams are spending more time trying to stop us than we are them.
At some point, you have to stop worrying about how to stop a couple of players and play the best 22 for good team balance.
Looking at your back six, Williamson, Plowman, Marchbank and Weitering have all played on undersized forwards. I suspect Jones could as well, ironically Simmo is probably the only one that would struggle given his huge turning circle.
Looking at your back six, Williamson, Plowman, Marchbank and Weitering have all played on undersized forwards. I suspect Jones could as well, ironically Simmo is probably the only one that would struggle given his huge turning circle.
Exactly what I was thinking LP. No one man has to stop a small. Its a team effort. Bring in the 7th man to mind an additional small (one of the mids/wingers) and then play Plowman, Weitering, Marchbank as the intercept marker.
Horses for courses swap out one of Weitering, Jones, Plowman or Marchbank for Sam Rowe. Our defense is looking very good, Im just worried about up the field.
Looking at your back six, Williamson, Plowman, Marchbank and Weitering have all played on undersized forwards. I suspect Jones could as well, ironically Simmo is probably the only one that would struggle given his huge turning circle.
I was quite surprised by how often Simmo picked up a taller opponent when the ball was heading deep into our defence. Fortunately, he has the smarts to negate a size disadvantage.
We seem to play a swarming defence trying to block forward avenues and conceding kicks to more easily defended areas. It’s only when the ball is heading inside 50 that our defenders man up, and it often seems to be the nearest forward rather than a particular match up - apart from Jones and one or two others.
Your point is well made LP; most of our defenders have the attributes to stand almost any opponent.
I was quite surprised by how often Simmo picked up a taller opponent when the ball was heading deep into our defence. Fortunately, he has the smarts to negate a size disadvantage.
We seem to play a swarming defence trying to block forward avenues and conceding kicks to more easily defended areas. It’s only when the ball is heading inside 50 that our defenders man up, and it often seems to be the nearest forward rather than a particular match up - apart from Jones and one or two others.
Your point is well made LP; most of our defenders have the attributes to stand almost any opponent.
And they're athletic enough to run off their man in most instances....
I'm not sure that Thry's lineup would spend much time together on the ground. We would normally be rotating at least one defender off the bench and giving SOJ, Daisy, Ed and others time in the back half.
As for stopping Eddie, it would be more of a team effort to limit forward 50 entries but Plowman could do the job with a little help from his fellow defenders.
Plowman, at a stretch, is all we've got IMO. If there are 2 eddies....we're screwed. We'd have to drop another mid-type back. So where does the extra defender go?
I know a lot of our blokes can play on talls, and smalls to a certain degree given there agility, but you still need a Tuohy/Docherty type which you can rely on more often than not to take those slippery blokes.
Look, i know how good our defenders are, i'm a huge wrap for them. I reckon our '2nd back 6' would still beat our '1st forward 6', i just think we need to be fluid down there and pick horses for courses.
I'd even consider Garlett on the slippery types, as required.
Horses for course, hardly a new strategy?
Move on zkruddler, this has been discussd ad nauseum...
Thats what i'm suggesting. And some courses might mean that the Weitering horse is better off resting for the following week.
Hardly a mew strategy, but people are fricken losing their minds over suggesting a #1 pick could be the 'casualty'.
Plowman, at a stretch, is all we've got IMO. If there are 2 eddies....we're screwed. We'd have to drop another mid-type back. So where does the extra defender go?
I know a lot of our blokes can play on talls, and smalls to a certain degree given there agility, but you still need a Tuohy/Docherty type which you can rely on more often than not to take those slippery blokes.
Look, i know how good our defenders are, i'm a huge wrap for them. I reckon our '2nd back 6' would still beat our '1st forward 6', i just think we need to be fluid down there and pick horses for courses.
Byrne seems to have been left out of the discussion. He could match most small forwards for agility and acceleration but may get lost by his opponent - as often happened to Tuohy.
Docherty generally plays as a loose man in defence; not picking up an opponent but helping out his fellow defenders. Not having Doc, and with apparently more emphasis on attacking footy, may mean that we give up on the extra man behind the ball.
Thats what i'm suggesting. And some courses might mean that the Weitering horse is better off resting for the following week.
Hardly a mew strategy, but people are fricken losing their minds over suggesting a #1 pick could be the 'casualty'.
His name is tom Williamson.
His name is ciaran Byrne.
I even gave Byrne an Honourable mention.
Weitering is in our best back 6. He's probably in our best forward 6, but irrespective of where he's named unless we are pushing for a flag we should play the back 6 that is both capable of winning and will likely be there in the medium to long term.
Weitering plays.
I understand horses for courses but unless something changes dramatically weitering will be first name on the sheet and it's not because of his draft number it's because we rate him as the total package.
Saints looking pretty average again tonight, and this is with a stronger side. Maybe our chance to leap frog them this year.
Apparently Williamson has a "stress reaction" in his back. I really hope the club is VERY conservative with him, don;t expect to see him in the first half of 2018 if that is the case
Apparently Williamson has a "stress reaction" in his back. I really hope the club is VERY conservative with him, don;t expect to see him in the first half of 2018 if that is the case
I understand that it is a minor stress reaction ... and modern medical imaging techniques will ensure that the medicos will know exactly when he's right to play. However, your concern about a conservative approach is well founded. Young Tom will be a very important part of our resurgence and we need to ensure that he can contribute to our premiership campaigns of 2019-2025.
Byrne seems to have been left out of the discussion. He could match most small forwards for agility and acceleration but may get lost by his opponent - as often happened to Tuohy.
Docherty generally plays as a loose man in defence; not picking up an opponent but helping out his fellow defenders. Not having Doc, and with apparently more emphasis on attacking footy, may mean that we give up on the extra man behind the ball.
Byrne is good running down the field , both him and Jones can look a bit nervy running back towards goal....Simpson like Docherty doesnt really man up anyone and is more about rebound footy.....which is fine vs some teams but not vs a team like say Richmond and Port who have dangerous small/mediums who need close attention.
The lock down small defender/s is my problem area for our defense and where we need to find some players and lose a rebounding type....no point Simpson or Docherty getting 30 possies if a Robbie Gray type has kicked five on them....
Byrne is good running down the field , both him and Jones can look a bit nervy running back towards goal....Simpson like Docherty doesnt really man up anyone and is more about rebound footy.....which is fine vs some teams but not vs a team like say Richmond and Port who have dangerous small/mediums who need close attention.
The lock down small defender/s is my problem area for our defense and where we need to find some players and lose a rebounding type....no point Simpson or Docherty getting 30 possies if a Robbie Gray type has kicked five on them....
True EB, but I think that we have a range of options to cover the Robbie Gray type forward. Ed Curnow, SOJ and others seem to spend time as defenders and I think that being able to rotate defensive players onto the opposition's best forwards will work for us.
True EB, but I think that we have a range of options to cover the Robbie Gray type forward. Ed Curnow, SOJ and others seem to spend time as defenders and I think that being able to rotate defensive players onto the opposition's best forwards will work for us.
Most of those smalls doing heavy scoring run out of the midfield, not as a permanent forward. No defender can mind two at once.