http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/superfooty-rates-the-depth-of-every-afl-clubs-midfield/story-fni5f22o-1227210307602
Not sure I agree with this assessment :
CARLTON
Top Shelf
Marc Murphy
Bryce Gibbs
Chris Judd
Relievers
Dale Thomas
Andrejs Everitt
Tom Bell
Ed Curnow
Andrew Carrazzo
The Nursery
Blaine Boekhorst
Patrick Cripps
Verdict: With Murphy, Gibbs and Judd starting in the guts, the Carlton midfield is blue chip, but it falls away quickly from there. Andrew Walker, Chris Yarran and Kade Simpson spend more time forward and back and the relievers are honest, but lack speed and polish. Their youngsters will continue to get opportunities this year.
No Graham?
Daisy is topshelf or at least he was and should be.
'Was' and 'should be' do not equate to is. I reckon we'll get a fair idea of where he's at in the NAB Cup and that'll also be a great opportunity for him to build some confidence.
Hun article legitimately points out how light on we are this year for established mids. Most of our relievers are really b or c grade at this point.
Got to hope Cripps, Whiley, etc. Can become proper mids.
http://m.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/superfooty-rates-the-depth-of-every-afl-clubs-midfield/story-fni5f22o-1227210307602
Top shelf
Marc Murphy
Bryce Gibbs
Chris Judd
Relievers
Dale Thomas
Andrejs Everitt
Tom Bell
Ed Curnow
Andrew Carrazzo
The Nursery
Blaine Boekhorst
Patrick Cripps
Looks to me atm like we definitely be pursuing at least one established "big name" for next year. This could change of course depending on what might eventuate this year with the up and comers.
To be honest the Hun have missed the point of several of our mids:
[1] Carrazzo: he is there to stop the opposition's best mids and he does a good job when he is fit. He also bites the other way. I would not call him a 'reliever': he is an important cog in the midfield who we have missed badly in recent times.
[2] Curnow: like Carrots he has a job and he does it well. Just ask Gablett. I find classifying them as they did nonsensical.
[3] Everitt: I don't remember him playing much in the midfield for us as yet. He had a couple of negative jobs which he did very well, but he mostly played outside the centre square. He is a relieving mid?
[4] Nick Graham: Nick played more midfield time last year than Everitt, but he couldn't make the 'Nursery'? What about Whiley, Walsh and the like?
They do have a point: our midfield needs work. Murphy, Judd and Gibbs are as good as you can get, but we really don't appear to have top mids after that. With Judd almost certain to retire at the end of the season, we need at least 1 more champion mid in the mix.
I do know that Malthouse wants guys like Buckley and Menzel to spend some time in the midfield, as it gives us more flexibility, but I don't see either as to grade mids on a permanent basis. I know we tried it with Eddie and Jeff Garlett and didn't get anywhere with it, but I understand the concept.
Docherty also spent time in the midfield last year, looking like he was doing some apprentice tagging (a la Carrots and Curnow). I am not sure about this: he is not as tight as a real tagger, although he got a fair bit of the ball.
Crash's analysis is on the mark, particularly in respect of Carrazzo and Curnow.
I think that too much emphasis is placed on A graders or top shelf players. It is the quality of your bottom six that wins matches and the same applies to the midfield. If the likes of Bell, Whiley, Graham and Boekhorst can match or beat their opponent, we'll be in with a chance.
@ DJC
I think it's a combination of both DJC. If you don't have enough A graders you will eventually get found out, especially in finals football. If you don't have the depth to back up your A graders you will also struggle, as we have painfully found out in recent years.
My philosophy is to start with the A graders and build around them - hopefully we are now doing that, but unfortunately our A graders are getting that bit older and we may lose a couple next year. I count Carrazzo as A grade btw.
Daisy is topshelf or at least he was and should be.
He was, and IMO he can be again, but due to injury he hasn't been for a couple of years and will have to re-earn the title.
I would have thought Yazz could run through the guts too?
Top Shelf
C. Judd
M. Murphy
B. Gibbs
M. Kreuzer
B Graders
D. Thomas
S. Docherty
Both of these 2 have the ability to become top shelf players
E. Curnow
A. Carrazzo
A. Everitt
R. Warmock
C. Wood
C Graders
M. Whiley
T. Bell
D. Armfield
IMO Bell and Whiley have the potential to be able to move up a grade in the future.
Young Guns - 10 or less games
T. Menzel (in the midfield)
N. Graham
D. Buckley
P. Cripps
N. Holman
B. Boekhurst
D. Viojo-Rainbow
X Factor
C. Yarran
Z. Touhy
C. Sheehan
C. Smith
They probably have it about right.......Cripps needs to step up and become A grade, Daisy was A grade but not anymore IMO..
When Judd retires we might go backwards unless we can land a Dangerfield or similar....
Crash's analysis is on the mark, particularly in respect of Carrazzo and Curnow.
I think that too much emphasis is placed on A graders or top shelf players. It is the quality of your bottom six that wins matches and the same applies to the midfield. If the likes of Bell, Whiley, Graham and Boekhorst can match or beat their opponent, we'll be in with a chance.
You need quality right through the players in the middle, no doubt but without the cream - forget it.
It helps when you can pick up beams, Christensen and Mitch for peanuts in a single year.
Dangerfield to replace Judd in the no.5 as a FA and Dylan Shiel via a trade would be handy additions come seasons end! ;) :P
Dangerfield to replace Judd in the no.5 as a FA and Dylan Shiel via a trade would be handy additions come seasons end! ;) :P
Forget about Danger, he'll either stay at the Crows or move to Geelong, no-one else will get a look-in.
Dangerfield to replace Judd in the no.5 as a FA and Dylan Shiel via a trade would be handy additions come seasons end! ;) :P
Forget about Danger, he'll either stay at the Crows or move to Geelong, no-one else will get a look-in.
Agree. I was reading over the weekend about Dangerfield's connections to the Geelong area, the Geelong FC and the Costa family. I'd be amazed if he left the Crows to go anywhere but there.
Dangerfield to replace Judd in the no.5 as a FA and Dylan Shiel via a trade would be handy additions come seasons end! ;) :P
Forget about Danger, he'll either stay at the Crows or move to Geelong, no-one else will get a look-in.
Agree. I was reading over the weekend about Dangerfield's connections to the Geelong area, the Geelong FC and the Costa family. I'd be amazed if he left the Crows to go anywhere but there.
We were all amazed when Boyd nominated the bulldogs after 1 year in the system!
Stranger things can happen...
Dangerfield to replace Judd in the no.5 as a FA and Dylan Shiel via a trade would be handy additions come seasons end! ;) :P
Forget about Danger, he'll either stay at the Crows or move to Geelong, no-one else will get a look-in.
Agree. I was reading over the weekend about Dangerfield's connections to the Geelong area, the Geelong FC and the Costa family. I'd be amazed if he left the Crows to go anywhere but there.
We were all amazed when Boyd nominated the bulldogs after 1 year in the system!
Stranger things can happen...
We can only hope!
It helps when you can pick up beams, Christensen and Mitch for peanuts in a single year.
Brisbane certainly flew under the radar and got some bargains. It would be nice if we could do that trick. Can't see it happening, but who knows?
It would be nice to get Dangerfield, but I can't see it happening. If we can snaffle a few up and comers or get someone who wants to come to us, that would be nice. However, to get some real A graders we are going to have to breed them or trade. F/S mids anyone?
No certainties Geelong but we need to show improvement as it will be a hard sell if we go poorly and we have Judd and co on the way out. Danger doesn't have 12 years ahead of him to ride out a bottom out.
The problem with our midfield over the past couple of seasons has been our rucks. Our whole team improved last year when Cameron Wood took over the role and became competitive. I was so disillusioned with Warner I thought he should have been traded. The fact that CFC has maintained their faith leads me to believe he was probably carrying an injury and I might have been a bit tough on him. We will see how he goes this year. Carlton's champion teams have been based on strong rucks that feed out the ball to our on ballers, Nicholls, Jones (Percy & Wow), Fitzpatrick & Madden. Mat Allen had a great year in 1999, the last time we made the GF. If Kreuzer, Warnock & wood are fit, and Casboult can step up, out midfield will look a whole lot better
The problem with our midfield over the past couple of seasons has been our rucks. Our whole team improved last year when Cameron Wood took over the role and became competitive. I was so disillusioned with Warner I thought he should have been traded. The fact that CFC has maintained their faith leads me to believe he was probably carrying an injury and I might have been a bit tough on him. We will see how he goes this year. Carlton's champion teams have been based on strong rucks that feed out the ball to our on ballers, Nicholls, Jones (Percy & Wow), Fitzpatrick & Madden. Mat Allen had a great year in 1999, the last time we made the GF. If Kreuzer, Warnock & wood are fit, and Casboult can step up, out midfield will look a whole lot better
Top post Blue Moon!
8)
The problem with our midfield over the past couple of seasons has been our rucks. Our whole team improved last year when Cameron Wood took over the role and became competitive. I was so disillusioned with Warner I thought he should have been traded. The fact that CFC has maintained their faith leads me to believe he was probably carrying an injury and I might have been a bit tough on him. We will see how he goes this year. Carlton's champion teams have been based on strong rucks that feed out the ball to our on ballers, Nicholls, Jones (Percy & Wow), Fitzpatrick & Madden. Mat Allen had a great year in 1999, the last time we made the GF. If Kreuzer, Warnock & wood are fit, and Casboult can step up, out midfield will look a whole lot better
Top post Blue Moon!
8)
I agree. Ruckmen may cop a lot of flack as a group, but the influence on a game of a dominant ruck pair cannot be underestimated. Teams like Sydney and Brisbane won GFs because they had the man (or men) who got first hand on the ball and give their mids a better than 50% chance. Any mid worth his salt will take that.
Back in the Pagan days Barnaby French had a couple of periods of absolute brilliance, and it corresponded to our 2 NAB Cup wins. When his form dropped and the other ruckmen used their athleticism to wear him down, we sank like a rock.
Our present ruck combo has won us games, but has not been able to play consistently at a high standard. Kreuzer won a lot of taps but did not direct them well: our mids struggled as a result. When Warnock was playing well, he directed his taps very well. The result was games like the Richmond final a couple of years back: we smashed them. Wood has improved his ruck work: directing his taps was a huge weakness. However, he was notably better at that when he played in the seniors at the end of last year. If, and it is a significant 'if', our rucks can play close to their potential, then our midfield improves hugely.
I would not call it particularly probable, based on our past performance and our history of injury, but hope springs eternal. To have our rucks be as effective and Big Nick was from 1967 to 1972, as Percy Jones was in the 1972 GF and Fitzy and Wow Jones were in the early '80's would be a huge benefit for us.
If, and it is a significant 'if', our rucks can play close to their potential, then our midfield improves hugely.
Very true, but it's not just about winning hitouts and directing them to our players' advantage. It's about imposing a big body on contests, taking marks around the ground, dropping back into defence to fill holes, spoiling opposition attempts to mark, going forward to be a marking target and to block our key forwards' opponents, and ensuring that the blokes tagging our best midfielders are spending a lot of time looking over their shoulders.
I think Kreuzer is most able to do that, with Casboult and Rowe our next best. Warnock and Wood might be able to win a few hitouts and Wood can take a mark, but their mastery of the other parts of a ruckman's game is sadly lacking.
Last year we really only had Gibbs, Murphy, Everett and arguably Simpson consistently producing good quality football through the middle.
This year there's upside from [Warnock?], a full year from Judd and expected improvement from all of Thomas, Docherty, Bell, Graham and Cripps. And, who knows what we'll get from Menzel, Yarran, Buckley and Boekhorst. Plenty to look forward to, but I'm expecting a lot from Docherty and Bell in particular - in fact, I'm hoping that Tom Bell can become our Dane Swan, not pretty but highly effective.
A starting midfield of [Warnock], Gibbs, Murphy, Judd, Everrit, Thomas, Docherty, Bell, Simpson aint too bad.
Love the optimism JD but the reality is we've been talking about what will happen if they all produce what they're capable of for a long time now. It's time to walk the walk and we should no longer giving a lot of these guys the benefit of their potential.
@Crash
The real problem with our rucks, at least until Wood got a go was their inability to take a contested mark around the ground. It was a struggle for either Kreuzer or Warnock to even manage getting their hands to the pill. Forces Casboult to work up the ground and provide the option that in reality any decent ruck should be providing.
@Crash
The real problem with our rucks, at least until Wood got a go was their inability to take a contested mark around the ground. It was a struggle for either Kreuzer or Warnock to even manage getting their hands to the pill. Forces Casboult to work up the ground and provide the option that in reality any decent ruck should be providing.
If these two haven't tried to do something to rectify this situation, then they are not serious about making an impact in games on a regular basis. Taking a mark when you tower over defenders is a handicap our club can't afford to put up with.
Dangerfield to replace Judd in the no.5 as a FA and Dylan Shiel via a trade would be handy additions come seasons end! ;) :P
Dylan Shiel would be my target player and I would be throwing big dollars at him now while leaving the other teams to fight
over Dangerfield...
Dangerfield to replace Judd in the no.5 as a FA and Dylan Shiel via a trade would be handy additions come seasons end! ;) :P
Dylan Shiel would be my target player and I would be throwing big dollars at him now while leaving the other teams to fight
over Dangerfield...
A long term thinking club would be going for this option, no question. He would be around for quite a while with the club and help the young kids grow around his abilities. Judd won't be around forever. Thomas still has a few years left in him.
That's what I've heard EB... Personally I reckon Dangerfield is a classic "burst" player and people get enamoured about his scintillating bursts and forget the long phases where he goes missing in games.
Funny now that the handbaggers aren't in the frame to win the flag every year how players are walking for big dollars and that they are contemplating throwing coin at players like Dangerfield. They have lost a lot of depth and you wonder how much longer their current run will last.
Dangerfield to replace Judd in the no.5 as a FA and Dylan Shiel via a trade would be handy additions come seasons end! ;) :P
Dylan Shiel would be my target player and I would be throwing big dollars at him now while leaving the other teams to fight
over Dangerfield...
Ive been talking up Shiel for a bit. He'd be a ripper.
I would be careful of offering big dollars though compared to the other blokes we have. We'll need to get this right and get some sort of order or balance whereby you can attract a certain type of player without going nuts in terms of $$$ and length of contract.
Scott Selwood is one that might slip slightly under the radar even.
I think he and Danger are both FA's. Shiel will require a trade but with SOS on board I'm hoping he's been into Shiel and his manger.
Scott Selwood is one that might slip slightly under the radar even.
[/quote]
Selwood has put off talks with West Coast until after the season.
https://audioboom.com/boos/2893928-barker-discusses-pre-season (https://audioboom.com/boos/2893928-barker-discusses-pre-season)