Not sure if this has been discussed previously and to be honest I don't know much about the kid, but he was taken at number 2 behind Weiters in the 2015 draft.
If he's looking to head back to Boc should we not be making a play for a young talented key forward?
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-24/indemand-lion-josh-schache-granted-leave-to-head-home
No for me. Only because whatever salary cap space we've got needs to be dedicated to mids.
We need mids
We also need McKay get some continuity in his game and get some form in the twos.
We are developing some depth in the midfield but still 3-4 quality short running through the midfield
GWS have Kelly, Ward, Shiel, Coniglio, Whitfield, Greene, Kennedy, Taranto running through the middle and we are a long way short of this depth
No...overated IMO.....already talk he is coming to Richmond to be reunited with Justin Leppitsch...went cool on Brisbane after Leppitsch was sacked.
No. No intensity about his game. We have enough key forwards.
No...overated IMO.....already talk he is coming to Richmond to be reunited with Justin Leppitsch...went cool on Brisbane after Leppitsch was sacked.
Not true
We have a 200 cm 100 kg 19 year old that is two years away of going into beast mode.. we need mids mids and more mids.
No.
Schache is an over-priced under-performing promise that got dropped, went back to a C-Grade competition and only got 3 touches in four full quarters of football.
Not true
Only stating what I heard...True according to Damian Barrett.....think Sam McLure also stated similar...
Barrett also stated Collingwood were also interested.....
Sorry mate, not having a go at you but both those blokes make crap up. Nothing has been decided.
Good to get the feedback. Like I said I don't know much about him, but I guess just his attitude of sulking it up lately should have given me my answer in the first place. I also briefly forgot we had Harry developing in the twos.
definitely not Schache.
But we are supposedly chasing a marquee player and I reckon it will be a KPF.
GWS have payment problems and also need to fit academy players in in the next draft.
Don't be surprised to see either Cameron or Patton in navy blue next year.
definitely not Schache.
But we are supposedly chasing a marquee player and I reckon it will be a KPF.
GWS have payment problems and also need to fit academy players in in the next draft.
Don't be surprised to see either Cameron or Patton in navy blue next year.
Love to see Cameron in Navy Blue....
Love to see Cameron in Navy Blue....
His price will be too high, we'd be better of going the RFA crack at Dusty and leave the KPFs to the developing players.
His price will be too high, we'd be better of going the RFA crack at Dusty and leave the KPFs to the developing players.
Cameron or Patton will be cheaper than Dusty , and will suit us better.
His price will be too high, we'd be better of going the RFA crack at Dusty and leave the KPFs to the developing players.
Probably right LP....though Dusty's contract is going to be scary given his form and the clubs said to be bidding on him.....still think he might stay at the Tigers but
they will be looking at 1-1.5 mill a year to keep him...reckon we would have to pay closer to the 1.5 mill a year and I dont see the club paying that much for any player.
Better we leave the lunatic contracts to clubs like North who want to pony up for Martin and Kelly...
No. Aim higher. He's still yet to impress and we've backed enough supposed future star tall forwards. Tried and true please.
Probably right LP....though Dusty's contract is going to be scary given his form and the clubs said to be bidding on him.....still think he might stay at the Tigers but
they will be looking at 1-1.5 mill a year to keep him...reckon we would have to pay closer to the 1.5 mill a year and I dont see the club paying that much for any player.
Better we leave the lunatic contracts to clubs like North who want to pony up for Martin and Kelly...
Rumors are Schache's manager is asking for $750K for five years, for a kid who is allegedly rumoured to be reviewing his future in the game.
I think Dusty gets in the door between $1-$1.25M for five years, and we can then consider letting Gibbs go back to SA, it's a win-win.
I too would love Cameron, but I reckon he's worth far more than Dusty, he might be $1.5M a year for the next ten!
No. Aim higher. He's still yet to impress and we've backed enough supposed future star tall forwards. Tried and true please.
I'm with Baggers on this one.
NO
EB, with the mooted changes to the cap a lot of clubs are suddenly going to have a war chest to spend (which gives a finger to the clubs that have managed their lists to open up space, thanks AFL) so clubs are going to shell out funny money for the likes of Kelly etc. I reckon we're going to see a free-for-all as some clubs go for broke... personally I'm against trading picks for players, we need to be going back to the draft and increasing our talent base and acquiring the rest via FA.
As a club we need to engender a culture whereby staying with your mates and having the chance to play in a flag sounds more attractive than pissing off elsewhere for a few bucks more (after tax). Otherwise we will get gutted and just become a nursery for predatory clubs.
We should not shell out big bucks for him. Surely our developing KPFs have as much promise?
Shown nothing except he's a low draft pick. Looks like a Jaksch trade to me. ::)
We be into our 3rd year of a rebuild next year...cant afford these sorts of risky trades that have a very low probability of working. Need to consolidate next year not speculate when forking out big money and long contracts.
Prefer to spend more on proven KPP at least we know what we are getting.
Otherwise we will get gutted and just become a nursery for predatory clubs.
Isn't that what we are now? Hopefully were.
Begs the question why we got nothing for Waite when he is playing his third (?) year for his new club and doing well. Barst8rd. >:(
Shown nothing except he's a low draft pick. Looks like a Jaksch trade to me. ::)
We be into our 3rd year of a rebuild next year...cant afford these sorts of risky trades that have a very low probability of working. Need to consolidate next year not speculate when forking out big money and long contracts.
Prefer to spend more on proven KPP at least we know what we are getting.
An injured West Coast Kennedy? ;)
Absolutely, I would be pissed if we didn't try.
An injured West Coast Kennedy? ;)
Yes please!!!!!!!
Imagine how nice it would be to get a player who rips it up when we play twice a year in WA!
Only joking - doubt they would trade him unless he wanted to come back home - when is he signed to?
Yes please!!!!!!!
Imagine how nice it would be to get a player who rips it up when we play twice a year in WA!
Only joking - doubt they would trade him unless he wanted to come back home - when is he signed to?
Pretty sure he is a WA boy, and I guess already is "home."
definitely not Schache.
But we are supposedly chasing a marquee player and I reckon it will be a KPF.
GWS have payment problems and also need to fit academy players in in the next draft.
Don't be surprised to see either Cameron or Patton in navy blue next year.
Why? Have you heard something????????????????????
I'll wait to see how things pan out a little more b4 making a call on Schache. I am interested. I'm a little unsure on his toughness and resilience just yet!
I have reservations for getting Sache on big money ,what has he shown,I would rather spend the money on a PATTON,LYNCH,CAMERON,WRIGHT ,LOBBE
I'll wait to see how things pan out a little more b4 making a call on Schache. I am interested. I'm a little unsure on his toughness and resilience just yet!
I was a fan of Schache at U18 level. He was level headed and talented. But, like Pratty, I have yet to be convinced about how mentally tough he is. I would certainly be looking at him closely, but I think the asking price is questionable.
The other reason I would be leery of is that we already have a 200+ cm mobile forward coming through. H (Harry McKay) SHOULD be a little behind Schache in his development, as he is younger and had much time out with injury (McKay was the equal youngest player in the AFL last year with his twin.). However, on form you would be hard to justify that.
So, I wouldn't utter a blanket 'No', but I would be questioning more than a llittle before diving in with wads of cash.
When you get down to it, a LOT of talented players leave Brisbane after a short while and play a LOT better. Sam Docherty springs to mind easily. Schache could well do the same if his heart was in it.
I have reservations for getting Sache on big money ,what has he shown,I would rather spend the money on a PATTON,LYNCH,CAMERON,WRIGHT ,LOBBE
I can't see these guys leaving, but if they were to be looking.....
Lynch killed us earlier this year. I'm sure he would LOVE to play for a team on the rise in fact rather than just in name.
Jeremy Cameron would be a similar coup, if it came to that.
To be honest, players that have all the attention is where I would be steering clear from if I were the list manager. We need blokes that have ability and a point to prove rather than blokes who were taken early in the draft and are looking for a pay day.
We need young heads, but we need to maximise our chances of success here too in terms of a strategy that sees us tread water, whilst attracting some draft picks, and picking up a player which fills the hole.
So, keeping that in mind, the player we can most afford to lose, that has some market value, and might be attractive for sides:
Levi Casboult. With his tidy kicking this season and step up in the ruck, he is a free agent, and the compensation might yield good results in terms of a first/second rounder.
The player we should bring in to replace him?? I would be looking at Kurt Tippet as being a bloke who has had a poor few years, is in the twilight of his career, has had his pay day, and will be looking to elongate his career whilst having a point to prove and plenty of football left in the tank.
If we could somehow swing that deal, we would walk away from it at worst having broken even at the trade table and perhaps in an even better position at the draft than we are in at the moment. Obviously I wouldnt be pulling out all the stops for Tippett, but its a buy low, sell high scenario whilst breaking even. This is the blue print we trade with moving forward.
Lobbe I pretty handy, genuine KP/ruck, and there actually aren't many of them out there.
Why? Have you heard something????????????????????
Nothing official Pratty.
I have a good mate who lives in Sydney and is a member of GWS. He reckons they will have to let some
good regulars go because of salary cap problems .
And Trigger did say a few weeks ago that we were looking to sign a marquee player.
We sure need a good KPF.
When you get down to it, a LOT of talented players leave Brisbane after a short while and play a LOT better. Sam Docherty springs to mind easily. Schache could well do the same if his heart was in it.
IIRC, Scache was actually keen to go to Brisbane as his father had played there. He wasn't in the Headland category of being shanghaied to the opposite end of the country and counting the days until he could return.
Of course, Schache may have changed his mind once he got there - a case of "be careful what you wish for as your wish might come true".
To be honest, players that have all the attention is where I would be steering clear from if I were the list manager. We need blokes that have ability and a point to prove rather than blokes who were taken early in the draft and are looking for a pay day.
We need young heads, but we need to maximise our chances of success here too in terms of a strategy that sees us tread water, whilst attracting some draft picks, and picking up a player which fills the hole.
So, keeping that in mind, the player we can most afford to lose, that has some market value, and might be attractive for sides:
Levi Casboult. With his tidy kicking this season and step up in the ruck, he is a free agent, and the compensation might yield good results in terms of a first/second rounder.
The player we should bring in to replace him?? I would be looking at Kurt Tippet as being a bloke who has had a poor few years, is in the twilight of his career, has had his pay day, and will be looking to elongate his career whilst having a point to prove and plenty of football left in the tank.
If we could somehow swing that deal, we would walk away from it at worst having broken even at the trade table and perhaps in an even better position at the draft than we are in at the moment. Obviously I wouldnt be pulling out all the stops for Tippett, but its a buy low, sell high scenario whilst breaking even. This is the blue print we trade with moving forward.
I would not be keen on what amounts to a swap of Cas for Tippett.
Let's also keep our perspective when it comes to list management. Our current build seems to be much better than our previous one in the noughties. We've prioritised talls and unlike the noughties we have a lot of promising prospects. In the noughties, we prioritised elite mids, traded away our only elite young KPP (JK) and hoped to find some tall talent outside the top 10 (and failed spectacularly).
But now 3 of our best mids are aging and we'll need replacements soon: Murphy, Gibbs and Simmo. We don't want to repeat the mistakes of the last rebuild by falling prey to an obsession to continually add to our strength while forgetting about our weakness.
We'll need to use our early picks/tradebait to go after elite mids, either in the draft or through trades. We'll have to pay over the odds to get Schache. Let's take the time to see if Charlie, Harry, JSOS and BSOS (Ben) and the Bolt can do the job first.
Let's also keep our perspective when it comes to list management. Our current build seems to be much better than our previous one in the noughties. We've prioritised talls and unlike the noughties we have a lot of promising prospects. In the noughties, we prioritised elite mids, traded away our only elite young KPP (JK) and hoped to find some tall talent outside the top 10 (and failed spectacularly).
But now 3 of our best mids are aging and we'll need replacements soon: Murphy, Gibbs and Simmo. We don't want to repeat the mistakes of the last rebuild by falling prey to an obsession to continually add to our strength while forgetting about our weakness.
We'll need to use our early picks/tradebait to go after elite mids, either in the draft or through trades. We'll have to pay over the odds to get Schache. Let's take the time to see if Charlie, Harry, JSOS and BSOS (Ben) and the Bolt can do the job first.
Agreed. It's not the $$ amount that is a factor in someone like Schache. Honestly $700k a season won't seem that much after the new collective bargaining agreement goes through. It's what it would cost us in terms of draft picks.
We'll load up on quality mids this year.
My read on it is that we are "going to the draft" this year, and next year will make a big play. Tom Lynch is a free agent next year, top up the mids this year and go hard for Tom, a Blairgowie boy, for 2019....
My read on it is that we are "going to the draft" this year, and next year will make a big play. Tom Lynch is a free agent next year, top up the mids this year and go hard for Tom, a Blairgowie boy, for 2019....
Maybe, though I'm a bit unsure.
My take is we should be active in the Trade and TA market this year.
I would not be keen on what amounts to a swap of Cas for Tippett.
I know what you are saying, but its about team balance with greater potential for output. Tippet would absolutely be of greater help to Kreuzer in the ruck and around the ground, and if we got him as a delisted free agent (not as a trade), and lose Casboult as a free agent via the free agency compensation model, I imagine Casboult would net us a second rounder as compensation. I would estimate that would be his value on the open market.
Im looking to strengthen our hand for the draft, and not weaken our team structure which is what I imagine SOS is trying to achieve at the trade table each time.
I would not be keen on what amounts to a swap of Cas for Tippett.
I agree Tippett is over-rated, he is no better than Casboult around the ground and is weaker over-head.
I'd rather keep Casboult if that is our option, because at least Casboult looks likely as a CHF. If he keeps kicking straight opponents will start to respect him more and won't run off him. Further I like the look of his mobility around F50 stoppages, when he has momentum and makes use of it he's a very big boy! Casboult will be even better if some of the younger guys start to demand some respect, and also stop taking their opponents to his marking contests.
.............. I imagine Casboult would net us a second rounder as compensation. I would estimate that would be his value on the open market.
I'm not sure, maybe a very late 2nd Rnd pick, but most likely a 3rd Rnd pick and maybe a top up list player. The problem as I see it is that if you are a prospective buyer you need Casboult and Sav Rocca, if you don't have the pair you potentially have nada! Rocca really is working a miracle!
I know what you are saying, but its about team balance with greater potential for output. Tippet would absolutely be of greater help to Kreuzer in the ruck and around the ground, and if we got him as a delisted free agent (not as a trade), and lose Casboult as a free agent via the free agency compensation model, I imagine Casboult would net us a second rounder as compensation. I would estimate that would be his value on the open market.
Im looking to strengthen our hand for the draft, and not weaken our team structure which is what I imagine SOS is trying to achieve at the trade table each time.
Those are fair points Thry, but I'm still not sure. Tippett's career thus far has been distinctly underwhelming. He would be a better 2nd ruck than Cas, but he's older, would be more expensive, and has no real presence (Cas is a bit better, but not by much). Plus Cas is a better contested mark, and given his current form, is a better kick for goal. I realize Cas' net worth is now as high as it's likely to be, and one side of the argument says sell now. But on the other hand an argument could be made that says we have put serious amounts of time and effort and resources into getting him sorted, why should others reap the benefits, especially the replacement is of dubious value ?
My devalued Aussie dollar's worth.
Those are fair points Thry, but I'm still not sure. Tippett's career thus far has been distinctly underwhelming. He would be a better 2nd ruck than Cas, but he's older, would be more expensive, and has no real presence (Cas is a bit better, but not by much). Plus Cas is a better contested mark, and given his current form, is a better kick for goal. I realize Cas' net worth is now as high as it's likely to be, and one side of the argument says sell now. But on the other hand an argument could be made that says we have put serious amounts of time and effort and resources into getting him sorted, why should others reap the benefits, especially the replacement is of dubious value ?
My devalued Aussie dollar's worth.
All good Paulp, variety is the spice of life as they say and a different opinion is always handy.
I just look at Harry Mckay, Levi, and do the maths, and in about two years time, one of them will be depth (or gone), and the other will be a starting 22 player.
Tippett just turned 30, he can be depth at 32. Casboult is only 27 and will be 29 in the prime years of his career being displaced by Harry and might want out rather than providing us with depth.
All this is as an alternative to selling the farm to get Schache too.
All good Paulp, variety is the spice of life as they say and a different opinion is always handy.
I just look at Harry Mckay, Levi, and do the maths, and in about two years time, one of them will be depth (or gone), and the other will be a starting 22 player.
Tippett just turned 30, he can be depth at 32. Casboult is only 27 and will be 29 in the prime years of his career being displaced by Harry and might want out rather than providing us with depth.
All this is as an alternative to selling the farm to get Schache too.
I seriously think if Kreuzer is still at Carlton and doing the solo ruck stuff there is room for both McKay and Casboult. McKay is ultra-mobile compared to Casboult.
For me McKay competes with SoJ.
Casboult competes more with Kerr.
SoJ could well end up on a wing or in the backline long term.
Nothing official Pretty.
I have a good mate who lives in Sydney and is a member of GWS. He reckons they will have to let some
good regulars go because of salary cap problems .
And Trigger did say a few weeks ago that we were looking to sign a marquee player.
We sure need a good KPF.
I'd be happy if we gave up our 1st & 2nd round picks for the next 2 years to get Josh Kelly + Zac Jones.
Swans & GWS both have massive salary cap problems ... yay!
No to Schache. No to Josh Kelly. No to Zac Jones (What do people see in him, that I don't?) Go to the draft. 2019 is the year to land some big, midfield fish.
No to Schache. No to Josh Kelly. No to Zac Jones (What do people see in him, that I don't?) Go to the draft. 2019 is the year to land some big, midfield fish.
I'm sure that the secret whiteboard at Ikon Headquarters has a list of potential 2019 free agents and 'out of contracts' on it with a couple of significant names written in bold!
I think we could potentially have almost $6M cap space next year if we wanted to go hard.
If we didn't we could bring forward some players payments next year to open up more space the year after.
I seriously think if Kreuzer is still at Carlton and doing the solo ruck stuff there is room for both McKay and Casboult. McKay is ultra-mobile compared to Casboult.
For me McKay competes with SoJ.
Casboult competes more with Kerr.
SoJ could well end up on a wing or in the backline long term.
I think so too. Bolton said this morning that McKay will continue to ply his trade in the VFL for the time being and will play before the year end. That being the case, if Weitering is going to play in defence then we need to add Jaksch as a key forward. Otherwise that'll be a hard gig for Casboult to be the only key forward, without help, as well as a back up ruck. Did well yesterday but that will wear you down after a while. Often yesterday, when he got beyond the 50, we had no-one tall to kick too, which hurt us a few times. At times he was the one kicking it in there.
Jones? Speed, inside toughness, excellent kick, scores goals, great endurance and importantly only 22 so fits exactly what we need. Wouldn't be as expensive as Fyfe or Dusty.
Jones? Speed, inside toughness, excellent kick, scores goals, great endurance and importantly only 22 so fits exactly what we need. Wouldn't be as expensive as Fyfe or Dusty.
Agree - I'm also a fan.
Jones? Speed, inside toughness, excellent kick, scores goals, great endurance and importantly only 22 so fits exactly what we need. Wouldn't be as expensive as Fyfe or Dusty.
Jones is a good player but he has been in the system for four years and now at 22 he is showing some results.
I would go hard like really hard for Bontampelli, Oliver, Wines, Shiel or Parker... like throwing kitchen sinks type hard. We need to settle that midfield before looking at anything else and this will take another two years/
Jones is an outside player. Acts tough in the push and shove but doesn't put his head over the ball.
nah, would cost too much, and is unproven
no to Dusty. He Is having a break out season, as he knows the next contract will be his biggest and longest.
His previous contract negotiations have been as messy as cloaks, but his inexperienced manager, has clearly given him the right advice.
your best of the best footy, no problems off field and your commentator mates will pump your wheels week in week out. He will stay with richmond and they will pay 5mil over 5yrs
Schache should be judged on his junior football more than his time at the Lions and on that form, I would be having a nibble.
750k a year for 5? No
400k a year? Yes 500k? Possibly
In between? Hmm.. take a look, but would need clauses.
Schache isn't expected to perform as a 19 year old, so I am not convinced he can't play.
He kicked at crap load at the U/18 carnival.
I think he will start playing good football next year or the year after and so has to be looked at.
But I would rather pa double and get Cameron.
Schache should be judged on his junior football more than his time at the Lions and on that form, I would be having a nibble.
750k a year for 5? No
400k a year? Yes 500k? Possibly
If you sign Schache up on that, what are you paying Cripps, SoJ, Plowman, Williamson, Weitering, SPS, Marchbank, etc., etc.?
Jones is an outside player. Acts tough in the push and shove but doesn't put his head over the ball.
I don't like him at all.
I don't like him at all.
x3..Nothing special IMO, kicks a few goals with breakaway speed but not the type of mid we are after....
If you sign Schache up on that, what are you paying Cripps, SoJ, Plowman, Williamson, Weitering, SPS, Marchbank, etc., etc.?
I agree that is a serious conundrum that cannot be overlooked and it depends on the length we are signing them for.
But Weitering has to be on better terms than Schache.
400k in the next set will be close to average, 500k will be over that average.
Over the next 5 years I would think it would be very safe to expect a 20-30% rise in the cap. That means the average wage is likely to be around 450-500k by the end of the period.
I think taking that into account it is reasonable to be looking at the 400k-500k for Schache over 5 years (If we feel there is enough there).
But yes we have to be preparing for the likes of young SOS, Weitering, Cripps etc and this is another reason why I think the club should have been moving on as many elder players as they could last season, putting big money into very long contracts of a few select players.
It is going to be an interesting juggling act if the players come on as we all hope
I'll back the boys we've got in ahead of the $ chasers, lets just secure them first as they are a gooduns!
For me now, it's all about culture and balance, the rest comes naturally.
When we made public our position on Gibbs, we were making a statement not just a stand. If we go and sign up wannababies on big dollars we are saying we don't believe our own hype.
Early signs say the draft is extremely shallow. So if we can get a good mid early, the 2018 crop is chock full of talls. Maybe to late then, so chucking a high pick at Schache may not be the worst.
Early signs say the draft is extremely shallow. So if we can get a good mid early, the 2018 crop is chock full of talls. Maybe to late then, so chucking a high pick at Schache may not be the worst.
Then it would make sense to keep the early picks and chuck worthless late picks and maybe a steak knives player at the Lions.
Schache, Casboult, Kerr, Curnow, McKay, Silvagni x 2, Weitering.
Seems like we've got a bit of tall forward cover - adding Schache means we can't add a mid so my vote would be no. Doesn't seem to make any sense to chase another young tall forward.
Schache, Casboult, Kerr, Curnow, McKay, Silvagni x 2, Weitering.
Seems like we've got a bit of tall forward cover - adding Schache means we can't add a mid so my vote would be no. Doesn't seem to make any sense to chase another young tall forward.
I think the club has been intimating the same thing Jeza - I'm pretty sure that the focus will be on the midfield next.
get jones his fast ,strong ,healthy good kick is exactly wat our defence needs and his 22 yrs old.
I think the club has been intimating the same thing Jeza - I'm pretty sure that the focus will be on the midfield next.
Fair enough but we still cannot kick enough goals.
We have built the defence.
Next the midfield. ( we are all getting old )
Now the forward line as we find the backline is too old..... Start again.
I know it is a process but sheesh, we are all clocking up years as we watch our club sit at the bottom of the ladder. It's like it is the inverse of the ladder we grew up! :o
Fair enough but we still cannot kick enough goals.
We have built the defence.
Next the midfield. ( we are all getting old )
Now the forward line as we find the backline is too old..... Start again.
I know it is a process but sheesh, we are all clocking up years as we watch our club sit at the bottom of the ladder. It's like it is the inverse of the ladder we grew up! :o
I think the feeling is that we've got forwards coming through who will start to impact soon and a better midfield would also see more F50 pressure. We can only hope they know what they are doing at this stage. Drafting and trading this year will be very interesting.
Schache, Casboult, Kerr, Curnow, McKay, Silvagni x 2, Weitering.
Seems like we've got a bit of tall forward cover - adding Schache means we can't add a mid so my vote would be no. Doesn't seem to make any sense to chase another young tall forward.
You can never have too much key position talent. None of the guys you have mentioned are "currently" elite players.
I think the feeling is that we've got forwards coming through who will start to impact soon and a better midfield would also see more F50 pressure. We can only hope they know what they are doing at this stage. Drafting and trading this year will be very interesting.
I hope so Cookie mate.
Schache, Casboult, Kerr, Curnow, McKay, Silvagni x 2, Weitering.
Seems like we've got a bit of tall forward cover - adding Schache means we can't add a mid so my vote would be no. Doesn't seem to make any sense to chase another young tall forward.
Of all of those players, how many have legitimate claims to being a long term Key forward with what we've seen so far.
In all honesty, none of them.
Loads of potential, but nothing certain yet.
Simple list management tells you that genuine key forwards cost you plenty. Look at the figures thrown about for Schache who has delivered next to nothing so far. Imagine how much a good one costs.
Compare that to blokes like Jager O'Meara, Tom Mitchell etc. Genuine, proven ball magnets that are on the same wage....if that.
So, given the above...
Continue to draft Key forwards until you are certain you have a couple (at least) that will be long term AFL players.
THEN cover your other gaps.
It is cheaper to grow your own KPPs and buy in mids than vice versa.
If we do continue to draft KPPs and some of the above players do fulfil (and exceed?) their potential, then we have an abundance of key forwards. Oh no. We will be forced to sell them off to the highest bidder. ;)
Show me the money (or draft picks!) >:D
I can't help but refer, again, to the draft which we went top heavy. Drafted 3 KPPs with our first 3 picks in the draft. Thought our spine was settled for a decade.
McCarthy, Mitchell and Watson deliver a collective SFA! .....and we didn't bother drafting any other KPPs in the meantime and are STILL trying to recover.
Draft big.
Trade small.
Early signs say the draft is extremely shallow. So if we can get a good mid early, the 2018 crop is chock full of talls. Maybe to late then, so chucking a high pick at Schache may not be the worst.
Goes about 30 deep we need three picks in top 30.
At this moment we are in line to select Luke Davies-Uniacke who is a Michael Barlow type
...Adam Cerra as a late first round pick if we manage to get one he plays like Heppell
Both are ready to go mids.
I think predictions of this year's draft demise are very premature! ;D
Drafts are only as good as your recruiting department make them. LD-U looks a solid early pick at this stage, expected to go very early.
Nick Holman....been tearing it up in the SANFL, dont be surprised if he gets another crack, very popular with his ex team-mates...
Nick Holman....been tearing it up in the SANFL, dont be surprised if he gets another crack, very popular with his ex team-mates...
That's great news. He's one of the unluckier delistees we've ever had... I was very surprised. Knew how to find the ball and was a very good kick (unusually for our blokes at the time). I hope he gets another crack somewhere.
That's great news. He's one of the unluckier delistees we've ever had... I was very surprised. Knew how to find the ball and was a very good kick (unusually for our blokes at the time). I hope he gets another crack somewhere.
Be a rookie chance with us if he doesnt get picked up by another club IMO.....agree he was unlucky, has really improved his all round game and is now a goal kicker.
Nick Holman....been tearing it up in the SANFL, dont be surprised if he gets another crack, very popular with his ex team-mates...
Great news. Always liked this kid, great attitude.
Fair enough but we still cannot kick enough goals.
We have built the defence.
Next the midfield. ( we are all getting old )
Now the forward line as we find the backline is too old..... Start again.
I know it is a process but sheesh, we are all clocking up years as we watch our club sit at the bottom of the ladder. It's like it is the inverse of the ladder we grew up! :o
Good post.
On the glass half full side... we are playing 9-12 kids less than 20 years old and we're in most games and have actually won 3.
With the common theory being once you get more than 2 teenagers in the team you won't win we really shouldn't be winning ANY games. Whilst we're in this period of not being a contender it's easy to miss the fact we've got the most exciting list in the AFL - bar GWS.
Things we've never done prior to SOS arriving:
* Actively trade out experienced players to get draft picks
* Nailed 2 drafts
* Nailed late draft picks like Silvagni, Williamson, Mcreadie, etc.
* We've got more former first round draft picks on our list that any other club (bar GWS).
The next step in the process (as I understand what Trigg/etc. have said) is to hand pick some more experienced midfield support to combine with the draft talent we've already brought in to create a premiership contending list. I really hope we can get a Jones / Kelly / etc. to actually choose Carlton. As we know it's one thing to want it's another to get.
All of this guarantees nothing but gee it's good to see us doing things properly for a change.
Nick Holman....been tearing it up in the SANFL, dont be surprised if he gets another crack, very popular with his ex team-mates...
Thought at the time we pulled the trigger too early delisting this kid. I liked the little I saw of him.
Didn't get much of a chance IMO. He was a clean ball user and looked a decent decision maker in the limited time he had - recall him a few times receiving the ball in the corridor and under a bit of heat hitting a leading forward lace out. Makes you wonder why he gets the flick yet player like Graham who while he gets it more uses it poorly too often to be a regular senior player.
Don't know the rules but are we in the box seat if we want him back or do we have to hope he is not wanted by any other club?
I think Holman's trouble is he is a bit slow at his size and shape, I recall him being a slower taller version of Graham.
At AFL level there are guys 5cm or 10cm taller, 5kg to 10kg heavier, who are as fast or faster than Holman.
He'd be competing for midfield roles with Cripps, C.Curnow, E.Curnow, Gibbs, Murphy, etc., etc.. and away from the midfield he competes with the likes of Plowman, Docherty, Byrne, etc., etc..
They all have him covered in one way or another.
I can't recall if he had both sides, he'd need it as like Sam Mitchell it helps cover for the lack of pace. It makes a player appear faster because they can always turn into space.
Thought at the time we pulled the trigger too early delisting this kid. I liked the little I saw of him.
Didn't get much of a chance IMO. He was a clean ball user and looked a decent decision maker in the limited time he had - recall him a few times receiving the ball in the corridor and under a bit of heat hitting a leading forward lace out. Makes you wonder why he gets the flick yet player like Graham who while he gets it more uses it poorly too often to be a regular senior player.
Don't know the rules but are we in the box seat if we want him back or do we have to hope he is not wanted by any other club?
Holman is free to a good home, we have no call on him at all, ..its the same as Jarryd Cachia who won a place back as a rookie after being delisted...
Cachia polled well in the Magarey when he was rookied and I would expect Holman to do similar which probably means he will attract some other clubs attention...
Not sure SOS would go the previous recruiters ex pick as a draftee for the main list but he might look at Holman as a rookie as he is still a young player.
I think Holman's trouble is he is a bit slow at his size and shape, I recall him being a slower taller version of Graham.
At AFL level there are guys 5cm or 10cm taller, 5kg to 10kg heavier, who are as fast or faster than Holman.
He'd be competing for midfield roles with Cripps, C.Curnow, E.Curnow, Gibbs, Murphy, etc., etc.. and away from the midfield he competes with the likes of Plowman, Docherty, Byrne, etc., etc..
They all have him covered in one way or another.
I can't recall if he had both sides, he'd need it as like Sam Mitchell it helps cover for the lack of pace. It makes a player appear faster because they can always turn into space.
Holman is 189cm and 87kg , apart from Cripps he is bigger than any of our other mids, agree he isnt quick but he is a rugged strong unit now and a real tackling machine...for nothing on the rookie list I reckon he could be value....
I was astounded we got rid of Holman...at the time, our list had far bigger problems than this kid.
Always rated the kid.... tough gig getting on - and staying on - an AFL list.
Take him back in a heartbeat.
Holman is 189cm and 87kg , apart from Cripps he is bigger than any of our other mids, agree he isnt quick but he is a rugged strong unit now and a real tackling machine...for nothing on the rookie list I reckon he could be value....
Agree!
I was astounded we got rid of Holman...at the time, our list had far bigger problems than this kid.
Ive had this discussion with a few people before regarding different players across different codes.
I think sometimes the call is made not because of where they are, but due to where they could potentially go, and how well the scope is there for them to reach that.
You will always find that the blokes we are always talking about were "good enough" for the level, but had limited scope to improve beyond that.
Holman irrespective of what we thought of him, just didn't get enough of the footy for a bloke who spent meaningful time in the middle.
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/N/Nick_Holman.html
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/N/Nick_Graham.html
Graham is a year younger, and was showing him up at the time, to ease the concerns of people not understanding that decision. The other side of it, is what we didn't see. There may have been no real issue with him, but we needed to change directions and do so quickly seeing us go with new blood over old blood and then the decision was made to keep blokes who were showing enough of the right sort of attitude and get rid of blokes who might not have been quite as committed.
Bolton was already with us at the time, so he got to see what Holman is all about before we made that call.
Holman is 189cm and 87kg , apart from Cripps he is bigger than any of our other mids, agree he isnt quick but he is a rugged strong unit now and a real tackling machine...for nothing on the rookie list I reckon he could be value....
But I think that was his problem, when he came in he had the reputation but didn't deliver on it, I think it was because of his lack of pace at AFL level. He was just out of too many contests.
If you could carry just one slowish inside midfielder assuming Kreuzer keeps his main rucking role, who would you choose Cripps or Holman? Obviously Cripps.
Now that C.Curnow is at the club, who gives Cripps a midfield chop out, C.Curnow or Holman, Charlie gets the nod for me.
I too liked Holman, but I just can't see him displacing the guys we have as first choice options. If we had to fill some spots on the list I'd like to see a few really hard at it fast breakaway types.
Look at how our team full of kids nearly de-constructed Norps game plan at the weekend, do they have too many Holman types in their rotation?
Holman was a nice player but lacking hurt factor.
Even defenders need a hurt factor - elite disposal, intercept marking, hard tackling, closing speed being some of them.
Being a disciplined player that tackles hard sometimes isn't enough.
This is where Graham needs to improve - nice little player and finds plenty of the balll but if he can add assists and goals to his game will be a genuine good player.
Cunningham has break away speed and goal kicking so plenty there to work with just needs to get involved more.
I am happy for Holman that he's going well but do not think we should chase hom at all. We've moved past the redrafting of rookies level of list management I would think.
Staying at Brisbane
Yes. Confirmed today. 2 year contract.
That really is a good result for the competition. Teams should not be losing 1st round draft picks after 2 years.
That goes both ways then.
Clubs shouldn't be able to cut loose first round draft picks too if you want them to be made to stay against their wishes.
The onus is on the club to do due diligence and draft players that want to play for them. They can draft who they like but if it was made clear on draft day that player x really doesn't want to play for Brisbane they might want to think of trading that pick for players to get more value, or run the risk of players signalling their intention to go.
Except Schache actually came out before the draft and said he would love to play for Brisbane.
I think 1st rounders should be tied to longer contracts to be honest.
We don't barrack for Brisbane, so it is easy to be dismissive. But a club constantly losing it's stable of players is simply not good for the game.
Tom Scully being pinched by GWS was not good for the game.
I would have no problem with 1st round picks being signed to 3 or 4 year contracts.
Imagine if Weitering wanted out this year.
Except Schache actually came out before the draft and said he would love to play for Brisbane.
I think 1st rounders should be tied to longer contracts to be honest.
Solves both sides of this problem, I think the AFL average 4 year career seems fair term, and can be offset for the player by having a slightly higher starting wage.
We don't barrack for Brisbane, so it is easy to be dismissive. But a club constantly losing it's stable of players is simply not good for the game.
Tom Scully being pinched by GWS was not good for the game.
Agreed, both morally and fiscally wrong.
I would have no problem with 1st round picks being signed to 3 or 4 year contracts.
Imagine if Weitering wanted out this year.
Don't jinx us!
With Schache off the table the media now linking Tippett to Nthmond.
You've got to give them credit, that Nthmond crowd just keep bouncing back from falling one step short! ;D
What happened to Tippett? He looked like the next Kernahan at the Crows.
What happened to Tippett? He looked like the next Kernahan at the Crows.
He copped an absolute lambasting on SEN yesterday saying he lacked ANY passion and had virtually stolen money from the Swans. Quite a startlingly frank assessment. They reckoned he was only good enough to be considered a mediocre ruck prospect and is nowhere near being an AFL forward.
Except Schache actually came out before the draft and said he would love to play for Brisbane.
Sure MIO. Public statements are barely worth considering IMHO. Even so, the decision of a teenager about their long term future to move interstate might have been perfectly palatable at first, but the reality of doing so is much harder than talking about it.
I think 1st rounders should be tied to longer contracts to be honest.
As much as I would agree, sometimes clubs need to be protected from themselves. Imagine having been stuck with Kane Lucas for much longer, also, GWS happily traded away no less than 3 first rounders from the 2015 draft in last seasons trade period. Not one of them had fired a shot. This is the exception, but the reality is, that there are enough dodgy first rounders that have gone around that make this idea less palatable for clubs.
We don't barrack for Brisbane, so it is easy to be dismissive. But a club constantly losing it's stable of players is simply not good for the game.
Tom Scully being pinched by GWS was not good for the game.
I agree with this, its not good for anyone.
I would have no problem with 1st round picks being signed to 3 or 4 year contracts.
Imagine if Weitering wanted out this year.
I dont think its necessary. All it means is that you keep a bloke that doesnt really want to be there longer. In a game where passion is important, having someone going through the motions is not ideal, nor fiscally does it work out.
we all gamble when we pick an interstater. People think they know what they are getting into, but then when they make their move and reality hits, it might not have been all its cracked up to be and relationships in practise are very different than in reality. The harsh reality of the budding AFL footballer who thinks that its going to be easy once they get established and then it all sinks in, the recovery sessions, the running sessions, the dietary requirements, the limits you have to push yourself to in order to be driven harder and harder and harder to get the most out of yourself, only to do it in an environment you are not used to, and dont really want to be in??
So, I think I have a different scenario (all ofthem have their difficulties, this one is no different). Said player is forced back into the draft rather than traded. Again its not perfect, but at least they cant just be white anted out of the club easily. Nor will they go glory hunting.
What happened to Tippett? He looked like the next Kernahan at the Crows.
The media and his management painted him like that, but it was rubbish.
Anybody watching him play could see the hype didn't match the claims and still don't.
The short length of AFL Draftee contracts allows managers to take advantage of early career success, before opposition clubs have had a real good look at an new opponent to disclosed any weakness, Tippett was a prime example.
As you know I watch ruck play, and Tippett always had a touch of the Hampson's about him.