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Around The Grounds => The Sports Desk => Topic started by: capcom on December 18, 2020, 06:49:58 PM

Title: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 18, 2020, 06:49:58 PM
Is our batting as weak as ... or what.  We'll end up losing this. >:D
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 18, 2020, 10:21:21 PM
Didn't pick openers.
Marnus and Smith mentally absent. No lead up long form cricket.
Head is a crab.
Don't expect anything from a debutant.

Absences haven't helped but selectors should be on notice. Expecting Burns to magically turn it around was la la stuff.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 18, 2020, 11:01:57 PM
Got lucky the Indian fielding is park standard else we would be a long way behind, India helped us out by picking Shaw and Saha and we are still struggling. Fighting knock from Paine but its a fragile middle order when Smith doesnt make runs.
Need 5 wickets real early as India have a long tail without Pant at 7...any lead over 250 is going to be tough for our batters to make IMO.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: crashlander on December 19, 2020, 09:14:25 AM
I think both sides have forgotten that dominating the bowling is the best way to stay in.
Our batters really need to lift their game.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 19, 2020, 09:57:34 AM
At least there'll be a result.  Badly missing Warner and why Joe Burns still gets a game is beyond me.  At least India have a very long tail
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 19, 2020, 12:57:26 PM
I don't understand the political correctness of modern cricket.

We had half a dozen overs at Bumrah under lights on a bouncy track with a new ball. Back in Lillee or Thommo's day that was toe and finger breaking time, those guys didn't have to hit the tail end in the head to do damage!

Last night we basically bowled line and length and let Bumrah meekly defend with a dead bat on the front foot until stumps.

Alan Border must have been apoplectic as he thought back to what our tail end suffered facing the West Indies!

Modern professional sport is so different now, even football, the brutality remains but it is very different! I think it's a big reason why when you get a player like Hodge or Dangerfluff they stand out, because they don't hesitate to become all accidental knees and elbows!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Milhanna13 on December 19, 2020, 02:10:01 PM
I don't understand the political correctness of modern cricket.

We had half a dozen overs at Bumrah under lights on a bouncy track with a new ball. Back in Lillee or Thommo's day that was toe and finger breaking time, those guys didn't have to hit the tail end in the head to do damage!

Last night we basically bowled line and length and let Bumrah meekly defend with a dead bat on the front foot until stumps.

Alan Border must have been apoplectic as he thought back to what our tail end suffered facing the West Indies!

Modern professional sport is so different now, even football, the brutality remains but it is very different! I think it's a big reason why when you get a player like Hodge or Dangerfluff they stand out, because they don't hesitate to become all accidental knees and elbows!

Had a feeling that may have happened, after all the pregame love ins (kohli / smith “ur great, no ur great...).   Too much buddy, buddy in the IPL
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 19, 2020, 02:45:14 PM
Had a feeling that may have happened, after all the pregame love ins (kohli / smith “ur great, no ur great...).   Too much buddy, buddy in the IPL
Agree...the IPL has made us too matey with all those rupees on the line, India really rule the cricket world now and every other countries players are beholding to them.
We bounced Bumrah with so many half volleys it was his toes in danger not his head, our quicks have lost their nasty edge under Paine and we need to be more ruthless..we should have had men in at silly mid off/mid on, leg slip as well and worked the Indians over with the short stuff. Its the one area we have the advantage with quicker/taller bowlers. The drama of the pink ball in the evening air was non existent and apart from Cummins seaming a few there was zero swing to be had.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 19, 2020, 03:45:08 PM
6 /19 !!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: God help me
Post by: bricky on December 19, 2020, 04:20:41 PM
Now 9/31  Hazelwood 5 for 3
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 19, 2020, 06:55:53 PM
And just like that, fortunes change. That's why test cricket is the best form, always has been, always will be. Throw that other Mickey Mouse stuff in the bin.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 19, 2020, 07:07:03 PM
And just like that, fortunes change. That's why test cricket is the best form, always has been, always will be. Throw that other Mickey Mouse stuff in the bin.
Agree test cricket is the best but I reckon this Indian team might know a Indian/Paki bookmakers phone number better than their own average. Bowled out for 36?...something not right, Christmas came early for 11 blokes and they aint Aussies.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: rocky on December 19, 2020, 08:26:13 PM
And just like that, fortunes change. That's why test cricket is the best form, always has been, always will be. Throw that other Mickey Mouse stuff in the bin.
Could not agree more. Test cricket, Summer days with it just rolling along on the telly in the background while working on something in the backyard (like today). Stopping to take a look every now and then. End of the day sit down with a beer and watch some highlights. Love it.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 19, 2020, 09:22:00 PM
Some Indian internet sites are going after Ravi Shastri and Kohli big time. 

And yes, tests are head and shoulders over any other form of cricket by a huge margin

Still not sold on pink balls and day / nites though. 

Title: Re: God help me
Post by: DJC on December 20, 2020, 10:07:59 AM
I was listening to the cricket in the car and India was 5 for when I got home.  I had to do a couple of things before I turned the TV on but, when I did, it was game over  :o

Watching the highlights suggested that it was some of the best pace bowling ever.  Sunny Gavaskar reckons that apart from Shaw, the batters really didn’t do a lot wrong; the bowling was just too good.

Have the Indians played Burns back into form?
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 20, 2020, 11:23:21 AM
I was listening to the cricket in the car and India was 5 for when I got home.  I had to do a couple of things before I turned the TV on but, when I did, it was game over  :o

Watching the highlights suggested that it was some of the best pace bowling ever.  Sunny Gavaskar reckons that apart from Shaw, the batters really didn’t do a lot wrong; the bowling was just too good.

Have the Indians played Burns back into form?
Not sure I agree with Sunny...Kholi's dismissal was a very soft shot, he guided it very nicely to the fielder...
I just dont trust teams from the continent and IMO the bowling was good but not that good to get bowled out for 36.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 20, 2020, 11:49:05 AM
There are rumours floating around today that if NSW do not get to COVID zero before New Years they are pulling the pin on the Sydney test, CA have offered them a no crowd lock out but the BCCI aren't interested!

To me if it's true it sounds more like a way to get out of a losing series than a genuine concern, surely the BCCI wouldn't behave that way! :o
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 21, 2020, 09:23:16 AM
All the damage occurred during the daylight on a good pitch, so nobody can bitch about pink balls and heavy night air yada yada.

Damage seemed to be caused by the ball decking away, which caused a lot of edges from balls that had to be played due to perfect line and length.   Seems that these blokes have learnt how to consistently bowl subtle leg cutters, a master level bowling skill.

A absolute master class in line,  length and subtle movement, the footage will be a coaching tool.   Move it too much and it looks great but misses edges.  Move it 2-3" and it's deadly.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 21, 2020, 10:54:51 AM
I notice The Hun publishing more rubbish about the MCG Pitch being no good, boring, etc., etc., with alleged calls from Cummins and Hazelwood for a competitive pitch.

Except there have only been 2 drawn MCG Boxing Day tests in the last 22 years!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day_Test#List_of_Boxing_Day_Test_matches

Perhaps this is getting in early in case the Sydney test turns sour!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 21, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Gotta keep the BCCI happy
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 21, 2020, 12:47:34 PM
It makes perfect sense to do it though.  Should have two pitches ready to go.  No SYD HBA yacht race, no Test?  Good.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 21, 2020, 12:55:28 PM
It makes perfect sense to do it though.  Should have two pitches ready to go.  No SYD HBA yacht race, no Test?  Good.
I fell a bit sorry for the yacht people, not that we should feel sorry for those wealthy enough to participate, but because their situation is untenable.

No matter how slight the risk you can't have a $50M super-maxi surfing down the East Coast like a Ganges Death Barge!

At this stage, the Sydney Test proceeding in Sydney seems like the oddity, pretty tough for the McGrath Foundation!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 21, 2020, 01:16:51 PM
I fell a bit sorry for the yacht people, not that we should feel sorry for those wealthy enough to participate, but because their situation is untenable.

No matter how slight the risk you can't have a $50M super-maxi surfing down the East Coast like a Ganges Death Barge!

At this stage, the Sydney Test proceeding in Sydney seems like the oddity, pretty tough for the McGrath Foundation!
Wealthy they might be, but its all relatiive, I still feel sorry for them as they have invested time and money only to be told at the vinegar stroke to pull out.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 21, 2020, 09:51:51 PM
Wealthy they might be, but its all relatiive, I still feel sorry for them as they have invested time and money only to be told at the vinegar stroke to pull out.
Worse for the tassie business folk who depend on that money, Yachties are big drinkers and spenders and its real bad for the local economy especially after the lockdowns with covid
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 22, 2020, 12:52:23 PM
Ian Chappell published an article demanding improved protection from umpires for tail-end batsmen who get peppered with short pitched bowling.

I found this a little unsavoury, I realise times change, but back in the day I suspect Chappelli would have been encouraging his bowlers more than perhaps any other Australian Test Cpt, and I've heard reports of such coming out of WSC around the time helmets first started being used.

Shami as the most recent example isn't much of a good one, in reality he only receive two short pitch deliveries if you can even call the one that got him short pitched, because he basically took his eye off it and ducked into it, it collected his arm below what would be waist height in his normal stance.

(https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5301.0;attach=954)
I often wonder where the bread is buttered when I read such an article!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 22, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
The idiot didn't even wear an arm guard
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 22, 2020, 02:55:08 PM
Agree Shami and other average batting bowlers need to wear arm guards, I think its up to the umpires to judge the situation and use common sense to determine what is intimidation rather than judge by the number of short balls per over.
Its a fact of life that if you come to Australia the pitches favour the the 6' 6" quick who can bang it in and you wont see much swing or spin but every other country also has their home conditions favouring their attack ie if you go to NZ the ball swings everywhere and we all know India doctor their wickets to favour spin and you can bang it in all day and you wont get it over stump height negating our quicks.
Players will get hit in Aus and in countries like South Africa who nurture big quicks so you need to bring your protective equipment and pick players who are equipped for the conditions.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: dodge on December 22, 2020, 03:27:58 PM
He was wearing an arm guard, just not on that arm.  I don't think I have ever seen an arm guard on both arms.

He played it so poorly that being hit was the only outcome.

Maybe players need to spend some time practicing evasive action.  (If it was me batting, I would have been on the ground at square leg before Cummins had let go of the ball!)
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 22, 2020, 04:27:20 PM
I suspect it's a symptom of T20, where the rules basically mean the batsmen moves about with impunity on dead flat lifeless bowling tracks, they may as well play on concrete.

So they get too comfortable not needing to deal with intimidating bowling.

Can you imagine these guys batting on a green top Gabba or WACA with Lillee and Thompson bowling, or worse still the same venue with Joel Garner or Andy Roberts?

(For the young'uns Roberts was scalpel precise and had more ways to harm a batsmen than The Surgeon of Crowthorne could describe. I think while most bowlers aimed for the head, Roberts picked out an eyebrow or earlobe!)
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 22, 2020, 04:31:46 PM

Can you imagine these guys batting on a green top Gabba or WACA with Lillee and Thompson bowling, or worse still the same venue with Joel Garner or Andy Roberts?

Apart from Smith, Payne and maybe Wade, the rest would fill their shorts. Chuck in Thommo and Michael Holding for good measure.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 22, 2020, 05:59:12 PM
Apart from Smith, Payne and maybe Wade, the rest would fill their shorts. Chuck in Thommo and Michael Holding for good measure.
Smith wouldnt know what hit him if he had the Windies quicks for company, no more deflecting through the leg side from outside off. The players who stood up vs the Windies all had short backlifts and were compact in defense like Laird, Border, S. Waugh etc....
Smith would get hit for sure IMO with his extravagant style, reckon Warner and Wade of the modern group would probably handle them best.....all be it briefly.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 22, 2020, 08:40:57 PM
Smith wouldnt know what hit him if he had the Windies quicks for company, no more deflecting through the leg side from outside off. The players who stood up vs the Windies all had short backlifts and were compact in defense like Laird, Border, S. Waugh etc....
Smith would get hit for sure IMO with his extravagant style, reckon Warner and Wade of the modern group would probably handle them best.....all be it briefly.
Warner? He's reminds me of the little dog who barks a lot but at the end of the day...
Smith would not die wondering, love his style.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 23, 2020, 08:36:11 AM
I feel for Shami getting a busted arm (already had a compound fractured finger myself this season) but he played it horribly,  only result was getting stamped once he took his eyes off it. It was a disgrace to see a bloke being unable to defend himself batting,  almost negligent from India IMO.  WTF does he do in the nets,  feast on long hops and full bungers? 

My 13 y.o. daughter plays against seniors chucking it down at 130 + and even she knows to step back and inside the line,  we practice daily by pinging tennis balls at her throat.   She wears an arm guard when playing as a precaution and eventually she'll get hit (everyone does)  but at least she doesn't scuttle off to leg, that's the worst thing possible.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: northernblue on December 23, 2020, 09:30:39 AM
I feel for Shami getting a busted arm (already had a compound fractured finger myself this season) but he played it horribly,  only result was getting stamped once he took his eyes off it. It was a disgrace to see a bloke being unable to defend himself batting,  almost negligent from India IMO.  WTF does he do in the nets,  feast on long hops and full bungers? 

My 13 y.o. daughter plays against seniors chucking it down at 130 + and even she knows to step back and inside the line,  we practice daily by pinging tennis balls at her throat.   She wears an arm guard when playing as a precaution and eventually she'll get hit (everyone does)  but at least she doesn't scuttle off to leg, that's the worst thing possible.

Stop treating her like a girl, time for some tough love mate...

😋
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 23, 2020, 10:10:32 AM
They were truly frightening.  Colin Croft in particular, liked hurting batsmen.  
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: LP on December 23, 2020, 10:14:45 AM
My 13 y.o. daughter plays against seniors chucking it down at 130 + and even she knows to step back and inside the line,  we practice daily by pinging tennis balls at her throat.  She wears an arm guard when playing as a precaution and eventually she'll get hit (everyone does)  but at least she doesn't scuttle off to leg, that's the worst thing possible.
Yes, it's a great skill and good coaching, just a sway forward or backwards and you are out of harms way.

Before you know it things will click and she'll be putting them over the fence!

Years ago we would train the kids by having them wear a helmet, then underarm cricket balls at their head and have them head the pill away to the off or leg. It isn't harmful, and it develops timing and skill to deal with short stuff calmly, I've seen Kohli do the very same in a test match.

Here is the truth about short pitched bowling, but it assumes the pitch isn't dodgy which is a different issue of dangerous playing conditions. If I stood you or any other cricketer up at the stumps in the absence of a wicket keeper or batsmen, and asked the worlds fastest bowler to throw down a short pitched delivery at you. You can catch it, every time, it may sting the fingers but you can catch it, even if you get the world's fastest baseball pitcher to throw the pill at you from 20m away you can catch it, you'll get your hands on it 10 out of 10 and do so comfortably! The proof of this is in every quick single run out attempt when the fielder unleashes an on the run panicked red hot power throw to the bowlers end from half the pitch length away! Bowlers nearly always get hands on it, they might drop it often, but they just never cold miss it unless they think it might be a direct hit!

My associates and I have argued for some time that batsmen should be able to defend themselves with a gloved hand off the bat, still risking being caught off the gloves but not to be dismissed for handling the ball. It's a sensible application of the rules, you would find a lot of test level batsmen catching the pill in front of their face rather than being hit in the head! Let the umpires adjudicate what is a defensive action versus interference. If they palm the pill onto the wickets they are still out, but do not penalise them for successfully defending their head, and let the bowlers bowl short still as a tactic!
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 23, 2020, 11:20:11 AM
They were truly frightening.  Colin Croft in particular, liked hurting batsmen.  
Patrick Patterson was less known but a lot of batters of that era said he was the most dangerous... Easy to forget Marshall and then later Ambrose, it was a never ending line of quality quicks. Marshall gets forgotten but his record is sensational and while smaller in stature he was highly skilled and bowled players out rather than blasting them out.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: bratblue on December 23, 2020, 11:34:19 AM
Patrick Patterson was less known but a lot of batters of that era said he was the most dangerous... Easy to forget Marshall and then later Ambrose, it was a never ending line of quality quicks. Marshall gets forgotten but his record is sensational and while smaller in stature he was highly skilled and bowled players out rather than blasting them out.

Watching live Marshalls run in was something to behold, very long and very very fast.  Then he would unleash the ball and you wouldn't see anything until the batsman hit it or the keeper caught it.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: Professer E on December 23, 2020, 12:31:24 PM
The problem is that in the nets you know what's coming,  you don't during play.  It's the one out of the blue that gets you. 

The Windies were ruthless,  an attitude engendered by Chappell during their 1974 tour.

Patterson on a dodgy MCG pitch slaughtered Australia,  but that pitch was to put politely,  a mother*******. He was lightning fast,  longest run I've ever seen.   Didn't he play for Victoria as well?

Marshall and Roberts scared me the most,  viscous steep bounce off a length.   And Malcolm was what,  5' 10" and came off a short run,  the pace was incredible. Bet they fizzed like a circular saw as they flashed at your throat.
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: capcom on December 23, 2020, 01:40:18 PM

Patterson on a dodgy MCG pitch slaughtered Australia,  but that pitch was to put politely,  a mother*******. He was lightning fast,  longest run I've ever seen.   Didn't he play for Victoria as well?

Tassie I think
Title: Re: God help me
Post by: DJC on December 26, 2020, 11:52:20 AM
Have the Indians played Burns back into form?

I guess not 🙄
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 26, 2020, 01:09:15 PM
Is this the folly of an unchanged lineup?

This pitch is nothing like Adelaide and it is not a pink ball day night test, I suppose until we see both sides bat we won't know!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 26, 2020, 01:29:26 PM
Disappointing batting. Have they learnt the lessons from Adelaide? It appears not.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 26, 2020, 04:38:57 PM
Totally and f******g over this dumb f**k mindless batting.   Fair dinkum, how stupid are these blokes? Playing Ashwin like he's chucking grenades.    I hope Langer rips strips off this mob at the end of today's play.   If Smith gets himself out by hitting to short leg again I'd drop him.   He isn't learning.  Oh look,  Head makes 30 again.   Aaaaaaaaaargggh.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 26, 2020, 05:04:30 PM
How come the Indians are allowed to meander along at 11 overs an hour?  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on December 26, 2020, 05:06:14 PM
Very poor selection of strokes. A local under 12’s side would have made more on this pitch. Are these players professional and paid to bat? Wouldn’t think so by the display today. Lucky to even get close to 200. I thought they might not get a total of 100 at one stage. They can only hope the bowling isn’t as weak as the batting display.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 26, 2020, 05:48:19 PM
After his one glory ball Starc is bowling shyte
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 26, 2020, 07:16:03 PM
Utter crap >:(
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 26, 2020, 07:48:59 PM
Utter crap >:(
To quote Black Adder, "... is like  Christmas Cracker. One disappointing bang and the novelty soon wears off."
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 26, 2020, 10:04:02 PM
How come the Indians are allowed to meander along at 11 overs an hour?
Barely much more with two spinners bowling!  >:(
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
**** off back to Queensland and take your mates in the selection panel with you Joe.

And burns a review needlessly.  God help us with these F tards supposedly calling themselves batsmen.  Burm's forward defence has more technical flaws than a bad legal argument. Why keep picking him Why !?!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 28, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
**** off back to Queensland and take your mates in the selection panel with you Joe.

And burns a review needlessly.  God help us with these F tards supposedly calling themselves batsmen.  Burm's forward defence has more technical flaws than a bad legal argument. Why keep picking him Why !?!

He must NEVER play for Australia again.  And he won't
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 28, 2020, 02:52:21 PM
He must NEVER play for Australia again.  And he won't

Assuming the selectors pick the team on form and technique and not because of state of origin, friendship groups, unrealised potential and any other irrelevant criteria they may dream up.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 28, 2020, 03:00:08 PM
He must NEVER play for Australia again.  And he won't
I would hope that's the last we see of him, horribly out of form.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 04:51:35 PM
And "*ick" Head and join him.

Other than crap fielding and comic relief I don't know what he brings because he isn't a batsman a-hole.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 28, 2020, 05:03:14 PM
And "*ick" Head and join him.

Other than crap fielding and comic relief I don't know what he brings because he isn't a batsman a-hole.
Smith also appears to have got ahead of himself this summer.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 28, 2020, 05:16:44 PM
New Test caps on order. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 05:27:52 PM
Bumrah's back of the hand in swinging variation ball is a chuck.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 05:29:44 PM
I'd be checking the betting slips  after this game
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 28, 2020, 05:32:17 PM
I think the trouble is under Langer's guidance test spots are welded on!

A work associate was talking to a Sri Lankan cricketer a few weeks back, in town on domestic cricket contract. He mentioned the rest of the world are astounded Maxwell isn't playing Test cricket, guys like Maxwell only play one good innings in three but it's a match winner. Instead we have guys welded into the test squad failing match after match after match and getting another run because they are mates with some members of the squad!

I didn't realise being someone's best mate mattered!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 28, 2020, 05:41:21 PM
Out - Burns, Paine and Head

In - Warner, Carey and Maxwell

Captain - Wade

On the fatigue crap, I don't agree about the Indians pushing thought the same scenario, India is not in the same boat as other countries because the BCCI schedule IPL to disrupt other countries, not in respect of the established touring dates! India uses it's dollar$ to make other countries pay on the field, the BCCI mandates the Indian players get the IPL contract money whether they play IPL or not, international players have to play IPL to get paid. That is why Indian test players freely stand out of IPL and rest up!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2020, 06:31:10 PM
Green needs to learn how to play the short stuff better, ducking blokes who are bowling 135kmh on flat pitches is only going to lead to him being pinged by quicker bowlers. He also falls over to the offside and will be a LBW candidate when he gets to England and NZ. Burns is a hack and Head isnt much better, without Warner and Smith out of form the batting is very brittle.
India are twice the team with Jadeja and Pant in the lineup, cannot understand why they are in and out, ok Pant isnt the greatest keeper but his little batting cameo changed the game and Jadeja is just so handy with bat or ball and his fielding is elite.
Smith tired...maybe, or is his technique now being challenged more because he is under more pressure with all the failures from his batting teammates who are struggling. Smith needs Warner back in the team as does his mate Marnus who also looks shaky...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 06:44:39 PM
Marnus looked OK,  he got a decent ball and at least they had to winkle him out.   Too many others get themselves out, it's the reason Head isn't test standard.   Some of the appealing is clearly designed to pressure the umpires.... Frivolous appeals for stuff pitching outside leg, close catches etc.   The Indians talked at least one out today. I'm not surprised Ashwin cops a lot of short stuff,  he's got a big mouth.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2020, 06:58:55 PM
Marnus looked OK,  he got a decent ball and at least they had to winkle him out.   Too many others get themselves out, it's the reason Head isn't test standard.   Some of the appealing is clearly designed to pressure the umpires.... Frivolous appeals for stuff pitching outside leg, close catches etc.   The Indians talked at least one out today. I'm not surprised Ashwin cops a lot of short stuff,  he's got a big mouth.
Head is another one with problems vs the short stuff, looks uncomfortable and doesnt want to get forward even when the ball is up there to hit and is always straddling the crease neither really back or forward playing those drives outside off and getting caught in the slip to point arc. Wade is a fighter but when he looks your best batsman then you have problems.
No use having a decent attack when your batting lineup is unreliable, this wicket was flat and the bowling competent but nothing special, they were even one player down with Umesh injured and we still collapsed.
Langar will probably bring back Shaun or Mitch Marsh as the fix.....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 28, 2020, 07:05:51 PM
Langer was a stupid appointment.  Another "process" freak
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 28, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
Langer will probably bring back Shaun or Mitch Marsh as the fix.....

I suspect that the emergence of Green has spelled the end the Marsh brothers.  He looks to have the raw talent to become our Test all-rounder for quite some time.  It’s an indictment on our system that his batting and bowling wasn’t fine-tuned before he got his baggy green.

I am enjoying Punter’s commentary.  If only Paine could listen in to Punter’s thoughts about placing and moving fieldsmen and bowling tactics.

Big Merv has been surprisingly good on the wireless too.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 28, 2020, 07:47:36 PM
Not having a first slip was reprehensible.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on December 28, 2020, 08:17:42 PM
I suspect that the emergence of Green has spelled the end the Marsh brothers.  He looks to have the raw talent to become our Test all-rounder for quite some time.  It’s an indictment on our system that his batting and bowling wasn’t fine-tuned before he got his baggy green.

I am enjoying Punter’s commentary.  If only Paine could listen in to Punter’s thoughts about placing and moving fieldsmen and bowling tactics.

Big Merv has been surprisingly good on the wireless too.
Feel a bit sorry for Green, we have been craving that genuine allrounder since I was a kid, other countries seem to produce them but we have always struggled and its hard for a kid coming in to the team with the expectation of being our answer to Ben Stokes.
Mitch Marsh was probably a victim of being pushed along too early and it probably hindered his development..
Been impressed with Greens bowling, he shapes the ball away at 140k and gets plenty of lift with his height, like I said his batting needs some work and batting at six in a dodgy lineup stuck between Head and Paine doesnt help.
Pontings commentary and reading of the game is excellent, makes up for the carp you get from some of the others....Paine has his good and bad days, thought Rahane the stand in skipper for the Indians was excellent, every bowling change worked and he has that happy knack of changing the field and having the ball follow his moves.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 29, 2020, 12:26:41 PM
Green looks good to me.  A few classic strokes
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 29, 2020, 01:54:45 PM
Keeps hitting the pull to mid wicket.  Needs to really commit to it and put it in the members' bar.  Either hit it down or go all the way.

Don't think he plays the short stuff especially well but agree that there is something to work with.   Young enough to improve.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 29, 2020, 08:32:20 PM
I'm probably putting the mockers on them, but I would play young Puckovski if he is fit. Having so many concussions already is a big issue with this lad.
If Puckovski isn't fit, I'd play Harris.
In the last 2 series here, India has 8 of the top 9 individual scores. In at #9 is Harris when he made 79. No Australian has made a century in this series, or the last (when Warner and Smith were unavailable). Considering that we should be controlling the pitch surface to suit our players, I find that an absolute disaster.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 29, 2020, 08:52:05 PM
Ponting said after today's play that the 3rd should be played here ... we'll see.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 29, 2020, 10:11:39 PM
Ponting said after today's play that the 3rd should be played here ... we'll see.
 
It's in Sydney.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 30, 2020, 07:48:57 AM
Something smells after this test,  and it ain't just Australia's stinking performance.  One side bowled at an over  rate akin to a melting glacier, yet the over side got fined.  Gotta keep the BCCI happy....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 30, 2020, 04:23:03 PM

It's in Sydney.

And something of a backlash happening in the media.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on December 31, 2020, 09:24:47 AM
And something of a backlash happening in the media.

Surely it would have to be played in a bubble with no spectators  ::)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on December 31, 2020, 02:32:08 PM
Surely it would have to be played in a bubble with no spectators  ::)
It is looking that way. Covid is spreading through Sydney, of that there is no doubt. Makes a test there look dubious. Can't see how they can scan the crowd to keep out anyone infected. Better to go with no crowd.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on December 31, 2020, 03:39:08 PM
Surely it would have to be played in a bubble with no spectators  ::)

Nah 27000 will be ok.  They will be trusted to not sit next to each other, and wear masks except when they are eating and drinking....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on December 31, 2020, 05:18:11 PM
How on earth they can stage this test in Sydney, then go to Brisbane (albeit with a special exemption) defies logic.   I'd be furious if I was in Queensland.

NSW leading the stupidity race as per usual,  daylight second.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on December 31, 2020, 05:42:18 PM
I'd be sharing that blame with CA.   
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on December 31, 2020, 08:10:58 PM
NSW leading the stupidity race as per usual,  daylight second.
I don't think it's stupid, it's wilfully indifferent.

Contrast this to NSW closing it's borders and telling Victorians how good NSW has been, all the while shipping International infected returnees to hotels in Melbourne and letting infected Kiwi's migrate south straight off the tarmac!

Now apparently Vic is being unreasonable!

It's all really crap low level politics, the gutter isn't low enough!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 04, 2021, 08:51:07 AM
Boycott Brisbane... Isn't that a default to the other side?   Bet that will go down like a turd in a swimming pool at the BCCI.

NSW's V'Landys style administration method might go down well with the locals,  but for Australians outside those borders,  you  and your cronies ain't winning fans Gladys.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 04, 2021, 10:03:00 AM
Boycott Brisbane... Isn't that a default to the other side?   Bet that will go down like a turd in a swimming pool at the BCCI.

NSW's V'Landys style administration method might go down well with the locals,  but for Australians outside those borders,  you  and your cronies ain't winning fans Gladys.
Just imagine if the Aussies were touring India and we wanted to boycott one of their dungheaps? Maggots.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 04, 2021, 10:03:31 AM
Sir Jimmy Anderson? .... Was going to be knighted but given he will probably tour here again its been postponed as the powers at be thought he might cop a right royal sledging from our blokes.
JA is a highly skilled bowler but I have never seen the greatness in him that others do and and I am fascinated how the English throw knighthoods at cricketers. I'm no fan of the royals and the idea of titles etc but if you are going to hand them out then give them to people who really change the world we live in for the better and not the likes of Jimmy who
while very good at his craft has enjoyed the benefits of being a pro sportsman more than he has given back imo.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 04, 2021, 10:18:12 AM
Sir Jimmy Anderson? .... Was going to be knighted but given he will probably tour here again its been postponed as the powers at be thought he might cop a right royal sledging from our blokes.
JA is a highly skilled bowler but I have never seen the greatness in him that others do and and I am fascinated how the English throw knighthoods at cricketers. I'm no fan of the royals and the idea of titles etc but if you are going to hand them out then give them to people who really change the world we live in for the better and not the likes of Jimmy who
while very good at his craft has enjoyed the benefits of being a pro sportsman more than he has given back imo.
Jimmy who? And S.K. Warne?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 04, 2021, 02:07:22 PM
The political lie is exposed.

Just hours after the teams departed Melbourne for Sydney, knowing full well they wouldn't be allowed back to Melbourne without quarantine, Gladys slashed the crowd numbers at the SCG from 30K to 10K!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 04, 2021, 10:04:11 PM
Words fail me

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 05, 2021, 09:32:17 AM
The political lie is exposed.

Just hours after the teams departed Melbourne for Sydney, knowing full well they wouldn't be allowed back to Melbourne without quarantine, Gladys slashed the crowd numbers at the SCG from 30K to 10K!
.

To be fair, it was that twat Barilaro, Gladys is having a break.

I heard an eminent epidemiologist recommending that punters get a COVID test as they enter the SCG.  At the very least, they should have temperature checks.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 05, 2021, 09:45:10 PM
If the ACB reward Sydney with two tests after the bullsh1t that's gone down in NSW then we need to drop the pretense that 7 of the 8 states and territories matter.  But then again, even Bradman would have struggled to get a game if he didn't come from NSW.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 05, 2021, 10:09:49 PM
If the ACB reward Sydney with two tests after the bullsh1t that's gone down in NSW then we need to drop the pretense that 7 of the 8 states and territories matter.  But then again, even Bradman would have struggled to get a game if he didn't come from NSW.

Your anti-NSW bias is showing Prof 😇

The fact that the Sydney Test is going ahead is a triumph for vested interests over sound public health policy.

To steal a line from a classic joke, I can imagine a punter responding to Gladys with, “Don’t call me ‘Freckles’, and where were you when the sh1t hit the fan?”
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 05, 2021, 11:04:14 PM
Your anti-NSW bias is showing Prof 😇

The fact that the Sydney Test is going ahead is a triumph for vested interests over sound public health policy.

To steal a line from a classic joke, I can imagine a punter responding to Gladys with, “Don’t call me ‘Freckles’, and where were you when the sh1t hit the fan?”
Gladys was probably with her dodgy polly boyfriend waving the cruise ships through to the docks, how you can have spectators at that test match with whats happening in NSW CoVid wise defies logic. Once again NSW are the source of our problems and have failed to act quickly enough at the initial stages. Even simple things like making masks mandatory initially were too much thinking for Gladys to cope with.....makes Dopey Dan look a genius. ScoMo and his crew should be telling Gladys its a no for spectators and you aint getting a second test match in Sydney.
I see that Moeen Ali has tested positive on arrival in Sri Lanka?...wouldnt you test, quarantine players before leaving England and then bubble them once arriving?


Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 05, 2021, 11:26:09 PM
You would think that no-one, passengers or crew, could board a plane unless they have a negative COVID test result 🙄

And that should apply more strictly to cricketers, and other privileged sportsfolk.

The Indian players haven’t stuck to the restrictions - and are unlikely to be fined or suspended - and Pakistani and English players have tested positive.

I get that Test Cricket, and other sports, are probably more important to our wellbeing now than at any time in the last 60 years or more, but public health has to be given priority.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 06, 2021, 07:24:57 AM
You would think that no-one, passengers or crew, could board a plane unless they have a negative COVID test result 🙄

And that should apply more strictly to cricketers, and other privileged sportsfolk.

The Indian players haven’t stuck to the restrictions - and are unlikely to be fined or suspended - and Pakistani and English players have tested positive.

I get that Test Cricket, and other sports, are probably more important to our wellbeing now than at any time in the last 60 years or more, but public health has to be given priority.
I read yesterday that the Westin Hotel in Melbourne has torn up its agreement with TA to house tennis players during the AO. Owners of appartments within the complex arced up and raised concerns over their safety and forced the Westin's hand by threatening legal action. Thats what you get when sportspeople don't behave properly and follow rules.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 06, 2021, 09:16:01 AM
Because a lot of high profile people are "special" and think they should be treated accordingly, while us every day mugs struggling to survive from day to day pay the rent.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 06, 2021, 11:18:46 AM
Because a lot of high profile people are "special" and think they should be treated accordingly, while us every day mugs struggling to survive from day to day pay the rent.
Karen from Brighton, or Peter from Portsea syndrome!

The truth is even worse though.

The infamous Mornington Peninsula COVID crew didn't really disbelieve COVID, even though they fronted the media and told everyone it was just a cold, they came home from Whistler or wherever to break the rules because they knew they had a room in their mega-mansion setup like a private ICU! They had their own ventilators, defib, etc., etc., they knew they had guaranteed access to this stuff at home.

So the reality is they just didn't give a stuff, they were prepared to burn everybody else and risk some lesser personal harm to preserve their lavish lifestyle! But it's a foolish approach, because all that personal kit guarantees nothing, it reduces risk it doesn't eliminate it!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 07, 2021, 10:59:24 AM
And the great white knight slips on horse ordure and FAILS.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 07, 2021, 11:37:50 AM
And the great white knight slips on horse ordure and FAILS.
Not great from Warner, this Indian attack is very under manned due to injury and with Kholi missing its about as weak an Indian team as it gets and he should have been more patient.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 07, 2021, 11:57:10 AM
EB... It was a putrid shot from a senior player,  further evidence that (1) this bloke was rushed back based upon reputation and (2) he has zero idea if the ball moves.   None.

On a flat pitch he'd be the first bloke picked, but as shown by Ashes 2019, then a slashing home series against weak opposition on flat pitches,  we can't rely on bloke and need to look elsewhere.   The selectors infatuation with this bloke in less than ideal conditions drives me nuts.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 07, 2021, 12:31:27 PM
He was and forever will be an impetuous player.  Never know what you're gonna get
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 07, 2021, 01:21:37 PM
EB... It was a putrid shot from a senior player,  further evidence that (1) this bloke was rushed back based upon reputation and (2) he has zero idea if the ball moves.   None.

On a flat pitch he'd be the first bloke picked, but as shown by Ashes 2019, then a slashing home series against weak opposition on flat pitches,  we can't rely on bloke and need to look elsewhere.   The selectors infatuation with this bloke in less than ideal conditions drives me nuts.
Agree Prof it was a very English dismissal from him vs the moving ball, problem is we dont have many alternative openers who have decent techniques. Wade has looked more sound than most and then you have to look at players like Harris, Burns etc who dont grab me either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 07, 2021, 04:35:05 PM
The selectors infatuation with this bloke in less than ideal conditions drives me nuts.
I reckon if he can get himself embedded in the team Pucovski is the cure for this!

 He'll outscore Warner and he'll do it without all the theatrics.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 07, 2021, 06:59:49 PM
I reckon if he can get himself embedded in the team Pucovski is the cure for this!

 He'll outscore Warner and he'll do it without all the theatrics.
Played some nice shots but also showed his weak areas, doesnt play the short ball well and got away with it vs the gentle 136kmh Indian attack on a friendly wicket but when its Archer, Wood, Rabada, Nortje etc bowling at 150 plus he will be get hit for sure.
He also falls across his crease which is how he got out, he was impressive to a point but was dropped twice and got lucky another time so good effort to push onto 62 but I'd be cautious about calling him a savior.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 07, 2021, 08:47:30 PM
Better than "Monty" Burns :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 08, 2021, 08:35:34 AM
Burns is a solid player,  but you don't pick guys struggling for form,  not with his litany of soft out's prior to the first test.   I don't understand why he started opening for Queensland,  he looked such a good 5 or 6.

Unlike Dizzy I can understand why they dropped Head,  good shield player with average fielding skills who hasn't learned from his mistakes and hasn't improved.

Harris doesn't thrill me either,  he's the Diet Coke version of Warner.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 08, 2021, 09:06:50 PM
How dumb Matt Wade, did he really think that was the right shot? Didnt help Green who has has own problems, LBW again falling over to the offside and playing around the ball. Its a real rubbery tail we have now with Cummins batting not what it used to be and apart from Starc going the park slog its thin pickings in terms of runs from our bowlers.
Smith played a controlled innings and looked back to his old self which was a positive but we really did blow the chance to stick the boot into the Indians and build a big lead. Like I said previously this Indian team without Kholi and a couple of their main bowlers missing is weak and are ripe to get flogged IMO but we are making them look good.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 08, 2021, 10:16:00 PM
Wade's shot was inexcusable.  U14 stuff
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 09, 2021, 07:52:58 AM
150 runs short thanks to Wade and his dumb mates, we'll be batting to survive days 4 and 5.

And Paine was right about Blocker... That LBW no decision wasn't good. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 09, 2021, 02:39:04 PM
I can see a declaration coming up tomorrow.  If, of course, we don't fall to pieces in the 2nd dig.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 09, 2021, 07:52:46 PM
Here we go, on the ropes, getting their hat handed to them on the way out the door, .................. play the racism card!

The modern default tactic for washed up or on the way out sportspeople world wide!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 09, 2021, 09:53:43 PM
Distractions from an impending loss.  But great to see two Australian umpires out there again.

But I must be a racist

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 09, 2021, 10:58:49 PM
While there were some poor shots, Smith made it very clear that batting wasn’t all that easy.

The Indians didn’t fare too well with the bat either ... although poor running between the wickets and some very good fielding made a huge difference.

And there’s nothing like sustained, well-directed fast bowling to sort the sheep from the goats  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 09, 2021, 11:01:06 PM
Distractions from an impending loss.  But great to see two Australian umpires out there again.

But I must be a racist

When was the last time two former Australian Test fast bowlers umpired a Test?  I reckon never!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 10, 2021, 12:02:32 AM
When was the last time two former Australian Test fast bowlers umpired a Test?  I reckon never!
The fix is in!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 10, 2021, 12:59:44 AM
The fix is in!

 :D

I think that they have done a pretty good job.  The only blemishes I’ve noted are allowing Payne to mouth off and not pulling Bumrah up for his petulant breaking of the stumps.  Stamp on that and everyone else will toe the line.  That said, all of the Tests seem to be played in a good spirit.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 10, 2021, 07:49:10 AM
Reiffel has been a terrific umpire  8)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 10, 2021, 09:42:00 AM
Jadeja has a broken and dislocated thumb - game over  :(

I have enjoyed watching him play.  He is a very talented and entertaining cricketer and I hope he makes a full recovery.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 10, 2021, 01:45:46 PM
Jadeja has a broken and dislocated thumb - game over  :(

I have enjoyed watching him play.  He is a very talented and entertaining cricketer and I hope he makes a full recovery.
Yep he can really play in all areas of the game and I can never work out why he isnt a fixture in the Indian line up, got a few of their best out now and and its going to be a very weak lineup for the 4th test and I'd expect us to win both this and the next test.
Agree on Paine and Bumrah...I would have made the latter reassemble the stumps/bails and let his skipper know I wont tolerate a repeat.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 10, 2021, 02:25:50 PM
Yep he can really play in all areas of the game and I can never work out why he isnt a fixture in the Indian line up, ........................
Jadeja is India's version of Maxwell, probably the best all-round cricketer in India, but not loved by many officials and team-mates!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 10, 2021, 05:00:29 PM
Starc needs time off,  he's bowling shyte again.   May be time for Warnie to give him a jag.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 11, 2021, 12:01:22 PM
Starc doing his impression of a pie chucker again
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 11, 2021, 01:02:51 PM
Starc doing his impression of a pie chucker again
Looks disinterested.....Pant is on today and our bowling looks a bit tired and we are waiting for a mistake rather than bowling to a plan. Need to regroup and just bowl a better line and length something which Starc struggles to do when the conditions are not in his favour. If I was India I would experiment with Pant as an opener and get a keeper who can catch and bat, he has that Schewag/Srikanth ability that can really destroy attacks.
If we can prise Pujara out I think the rest will fold up especially with Jadeja unlikely to bat..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on January 11, 2021, 01:33:20 PM
Remove a second slip and a ball is edged in the exact place the fielder was. Paine misses an opportunity. Gas just keeps chipping away with edges not able to carry. The old catches win matches will be an issue every side needs to work super hard on at training. Opportunities present and you just need to pounce on them. Sure the bowling hasn’t been spectacular but the Aussies haven’t pounced on an opportunity when it presents either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 11, 2021, 03:34:57 PM
It's amazing how some bowlers delivery a heavy ball, even though the radar suggests the speed variance is minimal.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 11, 2021, 04:17:13 PM
Starc has been very average this series and escaped criticism thus far .... Currently can't bowl two balls an over in the right place and he's not bowling anywhere near enough wicket taking balls and leaking runs.  As EB says,  looks like he's running at half rat power and disinterested.

I'd be handing Neser a cap in Brisbane.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 11, 2021, 06:29:18 PM
Ri Starc was the pick of the bowlers in the last session and was stiff not to snag a couple of wickets.  With a bit of luck going his way, we could have got a result.

I’m puzzled by our use of the DRS and some of the field settings but you have to give credit to the Indians.  I wrote them off when Jadeja was injured  :-[
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 11, 2021, 06:38:27 PM
Credit to India for the courage they showed but we were really were poor in the field and bowled like we expected things to happen rather than trying to make them happen. When you cant get a bloke out with a blown hamstring and another who is a bowler all be it who can bat a bit you have to  ask some questions. Too much BS sledging by Paine,Wade and crew and not enough attention to where to bowl and position the field IMO. Paine dropped some catches but he also lacks a bit of imagination IMO. The continued short pitched attack especially by Cummins on a dead wicket had me confused, they were ducking most of the short stuff and didnt look overly troubled IMO. When Starc bowled in a more traditional method and looked for the edge we looked more likely to take wickets but it was too late at that stage.
Not sure why Green has to start with a warm up half rat power bouncer every spell either, hasnt taken a wicket yet and I hope he improves as his fitness gets better as he really bowled crape in this test and has been ineffectual with the ball.
I would have tried Lyon and Marnus as a combo attack a bit more and made Vihari use his feet.......Ashwin kept Vihari away from Lyon and Vihari was happy to take the quicks after Ashwin got hit in the chest and we just let them keep facing up to their preferred bowlers.
Agree with Prof, I'd play Neser on his home track and if the test gets played in Sydney due to Covid issues in Qld I'd play Abbott
and drop Starc who looks cooked more times than not although his last spell was his best.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 11, 2021, 07:43:01 PM
Pretty dumb when we never needed to defend the total but didn't bowl accordingly.

Indians played well though

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 11, 2021, 07:57:21 PM
Another crap no result SCG pitch.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 11, 2021, 09:25:59 PM
Yep,  just pleased we didn't lose the game,  I hate the SCG pitch.   It's like we custom make it for the other mob, which craps me to tears.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 11, 2021, 10:38:47 PM
Crap keeping ... dropped 3
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 11, 2021, 10:44:31 PM
Yep,  just pleased we didn't lose the game,  I hate the SCG pitch.  It's like we custom make it for the other mob, which craps me to tears.
The SCG has four no results since 2015, and these NSW Norbits have the temerity to bag the MCG which has four no results in 30 years!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 11, 2021, 10:58:26 PM
Crap keeping ... dropped 3
Not sure what he was thinking when he sledged Ashwin either, he had a crap day behind the stumps, had his usual DRS issues in the game and the bloke he was chirping at has made 4 test centuries to Paines nil.
I dont mind some mental games but you got to be able to back it up on the field and Paine would have been better to shut up given the day he was having and concentrate on getting his fielders in the right position and trying to get the ball to stick in his gloves. Ditto with Wade who has done SFA this game but carries on like a clown, threw the ball at Vihari twice and wants a medal everytime he gets struck by the ball when fielding close and has to let the batsman know about it by puffing out his chest.
Its just cringe worthy stuff you associate with park cricketers....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 11, 2021, 11:41:57 PM
He is not my first choice as captain.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 08:03:50 AM
Annoyed that Paine, followed by a pile on by the cringewirthy virtue signalling local media have handed the high ground to that mob.

Although their own behaviour has been less than exemplary (there is now doubt that anything racist was hurled over the fence )  yet they're on top now.   F up in Brisbane Paine and you're toast.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 12, 2021, 08:59:44 AM
India also deserve a kick given Pant was unfit to keep yet seemed very well to bat and they were able to use the better catching Saha behind the stumps for a extended period.
Then had the cheek to promote the supposed injured Pant in the batting order, how does that work?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 09:20:08 AM
India - masters of gamesmanship.   And since when can your substitute be a specialist keeper,  one markedly better than the one currently playing? A diddle was being played.

Bumrah knocking the bails off - I've seen players suspended for less.  Pathetic.

Ashwin's frivolous appeals  and constant yapping over four tours. It's tiring. I'm not supporting what Paine did,  but F me,  more than a few are over Ashwin's Schtick.

First mob to play the race card and biatch about crowd behaviour.  Pretty short memories that mob.

As I said,  do the job properly and beat this mob in the next test.   Don't give them chance to exult going home with the BG trophy.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 12, 2021, 09:20:17 AM
He is not my first choice as captain.

I think that Paine is the ideal Aussie captain ... off the field.  He has done a great job in rebuilding the team culture and ensuring that the team gets the respect it deserves. 

On field is a different matter.  His judgement is questionable and he seems slow to react to changes in the game, or to take the initiative and drive changes in the game.  Even worse is his tendency to petulance when things aren’t going his way.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 12, 2021, 09:28:22 AM
I think that Paine is the ideal Aussie captain ... off the field.  He has done a great job in rebuilding the team culture and ensuring that gets the respect it deserves. 

On field is a different matter.  His judgement is questionable and he seems slow to react to changes in the game, or to take the initiative and drive changes in the game.  Even worse is his tendency to petulance when things aren’t going his way.
A lot of the noise is politics, the push to return Smith to the top job, but beyond Paine and Smith there are not a lot of options until Carey gets a regular gig, and he's a SA not a NSW!

In my opinion it would be a huge mistake to make Cummins captain, as is the backup position of the NSW Cricket mafia.

We've quite a void in the captaincy stakes due to the continual undermining of non-NSW candidates. A legacy of the structures brokered going back to the pre-Waugh era, when the best young players around the country were regularly threatened with oblivion if they didn't move the NSW to play grade cricket! You only have to listen to Mark Waugh commenting a non-NSW BBL game to understand how this has developed.

Personally, if Warner is not 100%, I'd bring in Finch to open and captain, he's hands down the best leader in Australia, better even than Smith who in my opinion is an ordinary captain, so much so that he makes Paine look OK on field, but I think they won't go that way because of the state politics.

The worse thing the NSW Cricket Mafia could suffer would be if Finch came in and a good enough job with the bat but captained supremely, it would end Smith's hopes, Finch could become embedded as a Brearley / Taylor type leader. In the other opening slot Pucovski or whoever else, if Pucovski is not fit then bring in Carey to opener/keeper, and select another option to replace Paine. A lot of people claim keepers can't open, it's too much of a load, but they do it in Shield four day cricket all the time. But unlike the Mandalorian, this is not Langer's way, he's more of a welded on man!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 09:36:44 AM
I don't think he's the greatest in game strategist,  but who is locally?   He was hamstrung by a very docile pitch which hardly broke up,  scatterbrained bowling plans and was a bowler down with Starc off. The bowling mentorship/coach need a good look at themselves... The effort was excellent, Starc aside,  but the plans/execution were very poor. 
Unfortunately I don't see another captain in that group,  and I don't rate Smith either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 09:45:19 AM
LP - don't get me started on Mark f***** Waugh,  the protected golden calf of NSW cricket.  I'd sooner listen to Trump's advice on cricket.    The bloke who got chances while the careers of other talented players were quashed.   If he was so good,  why did he end with the mediocre average of 41 - because he wasn't as good as the hype!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 12, 2021, 09:46:04 AM
If Paine gets the flick it will be back to Smith imo, a lot of people like Carey including the media but the NSW mafia will want Smith as will the core playing group.
Don't see Langar wanting Carey either who is his own man I believe and not one of the boys club.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 12, 2021, 09:47:34 AM
LP - don't get me started on Mark f***** Waugh,  the protected golden calf of NSW cricket.  I'd sooner listen to Trump's advice on cricket.    The bloke who got chances while the careers of other talented players were quashed.  If he was so good,  why did he end with the mediocre average of 41 - because he wasn't as good as the hype!
It's not really Waugh's fault, I concede it's easy to focus on him, but he's a product of the system much like Hird was at CheatsFC. Waugh cannot see it so when confronted he denies a bias, but that is because it's the only world he knows existing within NSW Cricket like a goldfish in a bowl!

The roots of rot go much much deeper than the players.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 10:01:07 AM
LP,  I reckon the other brother has a very big say in which strings are pulled to make the puppets dance.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 12, 2021, 11:11:24 AM
Bumrah knocking the bails off - I've seen players suspended for less.  Pathetic.

And where did he learn that?  Langer
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 12:54:27 PM
Was Steve Waugh captain when Langer was playing?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 12, 2021, 01:01:41 PM
Fairly sure he was Prof.  Langer's actions were disgraceful and designed to be hidden in a blatant attempt to cheat ... pity the video picked it up and condemned him.

EDIT ... Ponting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afQvCaPd4t8&list=PLxCA9Qt0aAI9lD3fuzzjFk0wb1-eGYUYF&index=24
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 12, 2021, 02:22:53 PM
With the 3rd test done and dusted, I have a comments, some of which have been mentioned before:

[1] Very disappointed with the Australian attack and the way we fielded on the last day. Catches win matches and we can only blame ourselves for that. Really, we should have won.
If we fielded like we had during the first innings, it would have been over around lunchtime.

[2] Paine's keeping: I think Paine has done an excellent job as Captain, but he isn't getting any younger and his keeping is on the downslide. As he is in the team primarily as a keeper, this must limit his future.
I don't think he is the best tactician we've had as Captain, but he is better than Smith in that regard.
We have think seriously about replacing him sooner rather than later. His replacement is already playing Shield cricket.

[3] Smith was not a great success as a captain, even though he was the world's dominant batsman at the time. I would not give him the captaincy if Paine were to be replaced.

[4] I would not give Warner the Captaincy either, even though he does appear to have more than a little tactical nous.

[5] The captaincy issue is a serious one. Labuschagne is about the only undroppable candidate in the team, but I have no idea if he has leadership qualities at all. There are a few off field people who don't appear that impressed with him: I honestly don't understand why. But if he were to be in line as a future captain, then he needs to gain experience in that role at state level ASAP. If he doesn't get a go, I wouldn't want to make him Captain. He needs to show the skills of captaincy and he hasn't had a reasonable opportunity as yet.

[6] Wade might make a good captain: he does have experience in the role and some success at it. However, he is barely scoring enough runs to remain in the team. Big issue there.

[7] Pant's health. I have been reading about how badly Pant was injured that he was replaced in the field by a MUCH better keeper.  Then he comes out and bats as he did. That looks rather suspect. If he was fit enough to bat for extended periods, then he was probably fit enough to keep wickets.

[8] Jadeja, who has a broken hand, was apparently padded up and waiting. Desperation? Guts and determination? other?

[9] The racism row now looks to be not a molehill that's been made into a mountain. Racist taunts are not welcome and are not the sort of thing to appear in modern Australia. But the comments now appear to have been anything but racist.
What does that say about the think skin of the Indians?
I can say that I say worse things about umpiring 20 to 30 times per game in the AFL. I get very emotional and complain bitterly when we've been robbed. Would I have been evicted from the SCG?
And what about the supporters in India. Not speaking much Hindi or Urdu (or Punjabi and Maratha or Tamil or the rest), what are they calling out?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 12, 2021, 02:58:03 PM
Parachute Finch in,  he can open and captain. Right hander.

Warner has shown his colours,  will never captain again.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 12, 2021, 05:12:51 PM
Its interesting that Carey is seen as a future captain and keeper but doesnt have the runs at 1st class level to back it up IMO.
If you are going on form you would go with Josh Inglis as your keeper/bat and you would be opening with Sam Whiteman both keepers, both English expats and both playing for WA.
The player who would probably qualify as the next captain is Moses Henriques IMHO.....but again he is from NSW. Henriques is of a steady nature and what I would call a handy player rather than a brilliant one but from what I have seen has some nous as a skipper and the respect of the players he commands at NSW and in the BBL.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 13, 2021, 12:55:28 PM
Henrique's days at test level are gone. His selection would be NSW nepotism at its worst.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 13, 2021, 01:41:16 PM
Henrique's days at test level are gone. His selection would be NSW nepotism at its worst.
I agree I wouldnt make Henriques captain but being from NSW would make him a candidate, he is also in the squad so the selectors must still think he can play at test level.But I think Smith would be seen ahead of him anyway, not by me though. Not sure if Smith is the full quid to be honest, after sandpaper gate you reckon he would be steering clear of anything that even looked liked placing him under scrutiny. Why he has to mess with the batting crease/guard area I dont know and I would have told him to clear out if I was Pant and leave my guard marks alone.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 13, 2021, 03:14:32 PM
Can't agree more,  what Smith was doing was mind bogglingly stupid,  so why do it?   Since when do players from the fielding side scratch at the wicket?  The only defence he has is that the umpires didn't pull him up instantly ob it,  so it wasn't deemed to be in a place considered "in play"?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 13, 2021, 03:31:02 PM
Can't agree more,  what Smith was doing was mind bogglingly stupid,  so why do it?   Since when do players from the fielding side scratch at the wicket?  The only defence he has is that the umpires didn't pull him up instantly ob it,  so it wasn't deemed to be in a place considered "in play"?
Umpires probably saw him shadow batting and thought its just Smith being weird as per normal, scuffing the guard marks away is what they probably didnt see at the time. I have seen opposition batters shadow bat off the pitch, mainly openers who think they might be batting soon and getting used to the light etc but never seen a fielding team player scratching at the guard marks.....
I think Smith knew what he was doing and took it one step further by working on the guard marks, mind you Pant shouldnt have been out there anyway after milking his injury to avoid keeping so maybe we will call it even.
I'd be changing the rules on injured players not being allowed to bat higher than their usual initial position and on fielders fiddling with the batting area.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 13, 2021, 07:04:57 PM
Henrique's days at test level are gone. His selection would be NSW nepotism at its worst.

A bit like bringing Bobby Simpson back ... but he could play ;)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 13, 2021, 07:53:19 PM
Can't agree more,  what Smith was doing was mind bogglingly stupid,  so why do it?   Since when do players from the fielding side scratch at the wicket?  The only defence he has is that the umpires didn't pull him up instantly ob it,  so it wasn't deemed to be in a place considered "in play"?
Stupid ? Probably. Cheating? Most definitely not. Smith comes across as being a little bit OCD, very quirky. He'd be the type of bloke who walks around the house playing cricket shots (Air batting). I think his explanation was fair enough if you ask me. Media beat up yet again. As they said on SEN this morning, Paine's apology was a joke, basically apologising to the Twitter minority. FFS he called a bloke two feet away from him a DH. No racial slurs, no taboo topics like wives, kids, family etc. The country is stuffed I tell ya. Pandering to nuffies.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 13, 2021, 10:43:51 PM
Just for amusement :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEnreKWuG6o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 13, 2021, 11:42:25 PM
Stupid ? Probably. Cheating? Most definitely not. Smith comes across as being a little bit OCD, very quirky. He'd be the type of bloke who walks around the house playing cricket shots (Air batting). I think his explanation was fair enough if you ask me. Media beat up yet again. As they said on SEN this morning, Paine's apology was a joke, basically apologising to the Twitter minority. FFS he called a bloke two feet away from him a DH. No racial slurs, no taboo topics like wives, kids, family etc. The country is stuffed I tell ya. Pandering to nuffies.

But there's no need for it G2C.  Paine would have been better off concentrating on wicketkeeping, setting better fields, making better use of his bowlers and figuring out how to use the DRS.

He came across as more of a d1ckhead than Ashwin.  If you're going to sledge, you need to be on top of your game and do it with a bit of humour.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: northernblue on January 14, 2021, 12:58:47 AM
But there's no need for it G2C.  Paine would have been better off concentrating on wicketkeeping, setting better fields, making better use of his bowlers and figuring out how to use the DRS.

He came across as more of a d1ckhead than Ashwin.  If you're going to sledge, you need to be on top of your game and do it with a bit of humour.
Dunno, what I read as being said was probably some very accurate home truths on both sides, play on...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 14, 2021, 10:03:09 AM
Henrique's days at test level are gone. His selection would be NSW nepotism at its worst.

I think he is 5th or 6th favourite, with some of the bookies, for Aus' leading run scorer at the Gabba.   Not sure if that is based on any inside info.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 14, 2021, 12:30:19 PM
If Henrique's is our new test all-rounder it's a sad indictment in our cricket.   That said,  I've seen him take some absolutely blitzing catches,  not bad for a bloke lacking in the athletic stakes relative to others.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 14, 2021, 02:53:02 PM
Had to laugh at Michael Vaughan claiming there is a dearth of quality spin because none are good enough to challenge Muralitharan's 800 wickets.

That's because nobody else is allowed to chuck it, and if some umpire called Muralitharan for chucking they were slammed as racists, which was just a cheap tactic used by then Sri Lankan coach Dav Whatmore to get his spinner off the hook!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 14, 2021, 03:17:23 PM
Warney, (admittedly not someone I hold in high regard), doesn't think Murali's a chucker.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 14, 2021, 04:20:17 PM
Warne doesn't understand the rule.  He IS a chucker
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 14, 2021, 04:25:28 PM
WTF,  Puckovski gets dropped for a bung shoulder, but Warner plays half fit!?!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 14, 2021, 04:29:31 PM
If true, it's a bit of a worry that a test spin blower like Warne doesn't understand the rules that pertain to his work. Murali was cleared twice by biomechanics experts, who in the course of their analysis found that other bowlers could also be construed as chuckers :

With the use of modern technology, the panel also found that legendary bowlers such as Dennis Lillee, Fred Trueman, Richard Hadlee, Curtly Ambrose, Imran Khan, Ian Botham and Allan Donald, although they looked perfect to the naked eye, also bent their arms too much when bowling, meaning they, too, were throwing.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/bending-the-rules-on-chucking-20041112-gdk3k3.html

My guess is that this all started to look like a can of worms, and the cricket authorities decided to leave it at that. Murali will go down as one of those controversial, polarising figures that appear to be legion in the sporting world.

And Darrell Hair is not exactly a great character.
 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 14, 2021, 04:45:28 PM
Darrel Hair's character is not in question here Paul.  He wasn't the only (OZ) umpire to call him.  Got that laptop yet?  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 14, 2021, 05:33:04 PM
Yep,  under the rules of the time he was a chucker and the assassination of Hairs umpiring was a blot on the cricketing community. When you change the rules to accommodate an individual you're swimming in dangerous waters.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 14, 2021, 05:42:05 PM
Darrel Hair's character is not in question here Paul.  He wasn't the only (OZ) umpire to call him.  Got that laptop yet?  :)

Hair's character is not the main part of my post, which I note you ignored.

We did end up buying the laptop. It's been sitting on the shelf for a few weeks owing to the internal speaker not working. It was fixed just a couple of hours ago via remote IT support. 

Thanks for asking.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 14, 2021, 05:56:06 PM
https://www.inuth.com/sports/muttiah-muralitharans-no-ball-controversy-steve-waugh-reveals-it-all-after-22-years/
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 14, 2021, 10:58:49 PM
With the use of modern technology, the panel also found that legendary bowlers such as Dennis Lillee, Fred Trueman, Richard Hadlee, Curtly Ambrose, Imran Khan, Ian Botham and Allan Donald, although they looked perfect to the naked eye, also bent their arms too much when bowling, meaning they, too, were throwing.
That was the biggest crock of crap of all time. I competed in Australia's fastest bowler competition with Lillee, Thompson, Hurst and others, as did many young fast bowlers around the country. The competition was actually conducted by Lillee's surgeon as part of a study about stress injuries on fast bowlers backs. We all got to see bowling actions side on in super slow motion, we bowled in front of a huge piece of graph paper being filmed by a high speed camera.

The truth is that under enough force at the moment of delivery a fast bowlers arm bends, like a fishing rod, but the Murali boosters tried to paint that as straightening your arm by more than 5°. Lillee, Thompson, Hurst, all of them bowled with locked elbows, Murali bowled with an elbow flick like somebody making a back-handed throw.

You can mimic Murali's action by holding your arm up in front of your face, scratching your head then straightening your arm, the elbow faced the batsmen when he bowled the wrong-un, that's why it was a throw.

When Murali was investigated he point blank refused to bowl in short sleeves, because he said he suffered duress due to a deformity in his arm.

After the Whatmore racism claims were aired they all went quiet, none of the players, past-players or officials wanted the grief they would get when playing or working in the sub-continent. Back in those days foreigners were being kidnapped or blown up in Columbo regularly!

btw., Steve Waugh pumps up Murali as the best because he genuinely hates Warne's guts and he knows it gets under Warne's skin!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 15, 2021, 08:44:44 AM
Pat, you know, I like you, and when you stay focussed, you are hard to beat. But when you go into hyperbolic overdrive...........

If you don't accept study after study of his action, if you don't believe 2 separate analyses, if you don't take the word of his greatest rival, and of Waugh, there's not much left to say.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 15, 2021, 08:50:58 AM
I still remember Tony Greig demonstrating how Murali couldn’t straighten his arm.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 15, 2021, 09:36:04 AM
I still remember Tony Greig demonstrating how Murali couldn’t straighten his arm.
I can as well, I thought he chucked it but he received some slack cut his way because of the condition of his arm and being a spinner it wasn't such a big deal.
Andy Roberts was one I would have checked very closely, his bouncer was yards quicker and that bend in the arm seemed greater to me..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 15, 2021, 10:49:03 AM
Australia batting first at the 'Gabba. We'll see if we've learnt anything from the last few weeks.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 15, 2021, 11:13:41 AM
Clearly warner hasn't
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 15, 2021, 11:17:32 AM
Clearly warner hasn't
And the NSW cricket mafia continue to bag players like Finch and Maxwell, while giving the true author of the cheating era a continual run!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 15, 2021, 12:24:43 PM
And the NSW cricket mafia continue to bag players like Finch and Maxwell, while giving the true author of the cheating era a continual run!

If the selectors were motivated by the desire to win this Test, Finch and Maxwell would have been among the first players picked.

I’m not sure what motivates them but worrying about who may or may not be able to play the Dukes ball in England shouldn’t be a factor for a Test at the Gabba. 

Of course Maxwell will have a lean innings or two but he will be a match winner more often than not.  Finch’s nous wouldn’t go astray either.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 15, 2021, 12:51:58 PM
Cant believe we are struggling vs the Indian net bowlers, their lead bowler is a kid playing his 3rd test and both openers are gone.
The two swing bowlers they picked have moved the ball but its far from intimidating stuff and its a good thing we are not playing a more seasoned team with more firepower. Hopefully Smith and his mini me Marnus can guide us to a decent total and maybe Green can cash in vs this inexperienced attack.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 15, 2021, 01:07:53 PM
Cant believe we are struggling vs the Indian net bowlers, their lead bowler is a kid playing his 3rd test and both openers are gone.
I think this highlights the problem with the welded into the team approach, not just for cricket but for any sport.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 15, 2021, 02:02:51 PM
Warner is hopeless.   Simply doesn't learn.
 His massive f****g ego got him picked.   He ain't fit,  he has zero form and he's only playing becayse HE wanted to.   Time to F him off.   As stated above..... The architect of the cheat and we need to leave him behind.

Harris gave us exactly what I expected.....little.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 15, 2021, 02:47:30 PM
Indian over rate is apalling, but that's OK,  well pressure the other side to make them up down the track.

More dirty gamesmanship from the sweet,  innocent Indians.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 15, 2021, 06:50:07 PM
Indian over rate is apalling, but that's OK,  well pressure the other side to make them up down the track.

More dirty gamesmanship from the sweet,  innocent Indians.

Only three overs short for the day.  That must be right up there with the best for the series.

Dirk Nannes said during the Second Test that the Australian batsmen could find ways to get out when there was absolutely no reason to do so.  With the exception of Warner, who was beaten by a ball that was far too good for his current form, our batsmen seemed to do just that today. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 15, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
Average day at best versus a group of net bowlers,  saved again by a good partnership at the end from Paine - that bloke who apparently can't bat.   Too many soft dismissals - Harris needs a kick in the ar$e for a particularly putrid shot.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Swan43 on January 16, 2021, 12:45:34 AM
Warner is hopeless.   Simply doesn't learn.
 His massive f****g ego got him picked.   He ain't fit,  he has zero form and he's only playing becayse HE wanted to.   Time to F him off.   As stated above..... The architect of the cheat and we need to leave him behind.

Harris gave us exactly what I expected.....little.

Errmm, no, he'd do all he could to convince the selectors he could do the job as that's what's expected. To do less puts commitment into question. In Australia, his average is huge (OS not so, and he shouldn't ever have been allowed a passport for Tests after the first few. But that's another issue. This is not his doing, it's recidivist 'brains trust' and admin doing. They picked him when underdone and he's struggled since. (But who are the options after Puc, who looks like another rare accidental Test player?) We don't create openers and previously Warner was the last one to have formed, however artificially. 20-20 and the like have come home to roost. We should all get used to it and stop blaming the victims and sacrificial, if sometimes aggressive, lambs.


Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 16, 2021, 09:45:03 AM
Heading for a draw I suspect.

Our batting isn't perhaps good enough to win a test, even with the weakened Indian bowling line up.

Although it remains a possibility the bowling will make up for it, but if we keep dropping catches when we get in the field it'll be a draw.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 16, 2021, 10:39:12 AM
They bat last .. today means a lot
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 16, 2021, 10:56:31 AM
They bat last .. today means a lot
Think same, that track isnt the best and will break up on the last day and their batting runs out at Pant at 6.
Their bowling ran out of steam last evening with Saani injured and I think Paine and Green can push vs their junior burger attack which lacks venom.
Reckon we will win easy and thats how it should be given the amount of outs they have....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 16, 2021, 01:02:31 PM
Our batting has been very,  very sloppy and lazy against a third string attack.   I expect India to make a bazillion on this deck.

Warner has always been a questionable opening proposition with his hard handed technique.   He has gotten away with it for a long time on our decks where he can just throw his hands at it through the line with lightning bat speed,  but if it moves he's over committed and can't adjust.    Now that he's 33 and not picking it up as fast he's not doing it here either.... And picking him for OS tours like the Ashes 2022 is a big risk.   Yes,  he's been entertaining but the end is coming fast.  He has been done a major disservice by the ACB because you can't find form at test level,  you find it playing long form. Without four day games leading in how did he expect to fare ?

Another bloke under the pump is Starc.  His lead in was average and his test series underwhelming.  Again,  why is he an automatic selection?  Surely it's not just because he's from NSW?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 17, 2021, 04:59:58 PM
This circus just goes to show how over-rated the concept of elite is, and how flawed Langer's welded on approach is!

I mentioned awhile back when talking about AFL and player wages, you could sack all 760 players and most of the coaches and replace them from the 10000 players wanting a crack at the gig, and by the end of the following season you would not even notice a difference!

Because despite what is claimed by various experts, media and the players themselves it is not the players that make the sport elite, it's the professional ethics, tactics and fulltime focus that make high level team sport elite. AFL is a good example because it's mired in copycat tactics, and whenever a group break the mold they are almost unbeatable.

Langer will tell you nobody can compete with the top level test players, and as such they deserve more of a chance to retain a spot, except of course some B-Grade opposition!

Also, today is the difference between a Taylor, Finch or Maxwell type player captaining, and someone like a Paine or Smith. The plans have failed, and there is clearly no plan B from Paine and Smith or his crew, they can't innovate or invent things as they go!

India lose a wicket from fatigue, the media talk up our blokes like they are genius. Of course if they bowl them out now all will be forgiven, but it's too late!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 17, 2021, 07:01:34 PM
Australia and Langar didn't do much homework on Washington Sol Patts and his big hitting mate and paid the price.
Bowlers who can bat are not tailenders and you just can't expect them to roll over like No 11's and hand you their wicket. Ponting seemed to know plenty about them via his IPL coaching but our brains trust didn't have a clue and our bowlers just trundled in without a plan for most of the partnership.
Can still win but we make it hard for ourselves and need to bowl better in the second innings..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 17, 2021, 09:44:06 PM
We are paper thin at times ... especially bowling to the (supposed) tail

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 18, 2021, 08:26:18 AM
Why Starc was picked in this test defies logic.   If he bitches about series fatigue after this match I'll spew up. This was the ideal game to give him a break and play Neser on his home deck.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 18, 2021, 12:42:54 PM
Warner's review confirms to me he has become the most selfish player since Steve Waugh, perhaps even more selfish than Steve Waugh, and Waugh was extraordinarily selfish.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 18, 2021, 01:10:03 PM
The only stat I've seen from Warne in this respect is the run out stat. Oh, and Waugh is a New South Welshman, and Warney is a Victorian. I'd say it's just sour grapes on Warne's part, based on :

1. the fact that Warne was dropped by Waugh for one test in 1999.
2. that Waugh refused to partake in Warne's yobbo-ish, frat boy antics.

https://www.espn.com.au/cricket/story/_/id/29172472/who-run-their-partners-most-international-cricket

Interesting that Warne brings up the "selfish" line every chance he gets. Waugh has barely said two words about it.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 18, 2021, 01:13:38 PM
Are you sure LP?  Commentators (Fleming) suggested otherwise.  I missed the original finger up call.  Wasn't it caught and then referred with LBW ruling him out?

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 18, 2021, 01:23:33 PM
Waugh has stayed quiet, and  refused to chuck fuel on the fire,  which is a solid strategy ('control the communication' as the PR guys call it).

If you go through the archives, history is littered with incidents concerning the Waugh(s) and Victorians, of which Warne is obviously one.   The deep seated antipathy seemed to start with sledging during Shield games,  the Elliot incident didn't win friends,  and dropping Warne in the Caribbean for MacGill caused a lot of bad blood. Coupled with a perception that Victorian players (Jones,  Elliot,  Hodge) were overlooked for NSW players and you get the picture.

Neither state has particularly liked each other at state level for decades. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 18, 2021, 01:37:38 PM
I'm sure all professional players have a vested interest in their performance, and you could make a case for any number of players in AFL, cricket etc. being perceived as selfish.  Warne has conducted a one man attack on Waugh for ages. The only other person of note to buy into this was Ian Chappell, who also rips into Bradman and Botham. I'd suggest all these blokes are motivated by personal grievances rather than any genuine attempt at character analysis.

Warne isn't exactly humble and selfless himself.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 18, 2021, 01:47:42 PM
Warne was 100% right to turn down an "instruction" from Waugh that they wear their Test Caps to Wimbledon.  Waugh was absolutely self centered in thinking they'd follow suit but he always was that way inclined.  There are other examples of that
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 18, 2021, 03:38:41 PM
Why is it that Australia seemingly has to always take all the risks to win games,  while other countries sit back and wait?  Maybe we should sit on the splice for three days and drag everything to five day draws.

I for one am pleased that at least Australia has tried to push the game forward.   If the (inevitable) collapse occurs chasing the win,  then I say,  well done boys,  at least you had a go.  And to the usual media pile on, a big  👆 you.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 18, 2021, 07:04:32 PM
So Sharma scratches guard and shadows bats while in the field... WHERES THE MEDIA PILE ON!?!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 18, 2021, 08:54:31 PM
So Sharma scratches guard and shadows bats while in the field... WHERES THE MEDIA PILE ON!?!
Think he was taking the piss out of Smith who was watching him and the media thought the same, I thought the umpires might have moved him and cracked down on what is stupid behaviour. I dont think he scratched guard and just shadow batted, its a practice thats needs to be stopped and I'd just ban fielders from doing it and fine them if they ignored a warning.
Another practice annoying me is bowlers and fielders who throw the ball back to the keeper in a temper and either hit the batsman or come close to doing it. Wade does it and I saw Singh do it as well,  bit sick of all these little tanties they throw without any warning from the umpires. Lyon threw one at Sundar that nearly hit him in the head after getting frustrated. We saw Bumrah knock the stumps over and nothing from the umps in the previous test and I'd be laying the law down to both teams that its going to cost the player fines if they sook up and play like kids.
Really pro sportsman are so spoilt and precious these days, you got the Indians complaining about no 5 star treatment due to covid restrictions ie they had to make their own beds?? and these bratish tennis players complaining they have to isolate without any practice etc etc and be locked up for a week or two to protect the community.
Either follow the rules or go home and stop whinging, their own countries are rife with covid and they have the cheek to question our security lockdown measures that are keeping them safe...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 18, 2021, 09:15:22 PM
The Toorak luvvies must be beside themselves. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 18, 2021, 09:32:55 PM
I am not feeling confident about tomorrow, weather or otherwise.
[1] Bowlers:
Apart from one brilliant performance (1st test), our bowlers have lacked penetration when we have really needed it. And they have not been able to get the ball the move much in the air or off the wicket.
The Indian bowlers have a lot more movement, and not just with the new ball. They have been able to produce it at vital times, while our bowling has looked pedestrian and ineffective.
And then Lyon hasn't been able to spin them out either. He has had a very poor tour and has rarely been able to penetrate, no matter what the pitch was like.
They are good players, but they are not moving the ball of the straight and narrow. Where has the movement gone?

[2] Pitches:
When we go the India, we get provided with some of the worst pitches in the ball. They are often rolled mud with some grass cuttings interspersed.  Considering that they can now produce much better pitches (and that they have some decent pace bowlers), I find it very irritating.
Why?
They are doctoring the pitch to best suit their spinners (especially as they know our guys don't play spin that well).
So, why is the boot not on the other foot?
The last two times that India have come here, we have provided some of the most un-Australian pitches ever seen in this country. Where is the bounce? Especially at the 'Gabba! And do they play in Perth, on the other fast pitch? No.
I find that hard to fathom. If our batsmen and bowlers like fast, bouncy pitches, why don't we produce them?
Another point here is the BCCI appear to have too much say (in just about everything). The 1st test should have been in Brisbane, when the weather was more predictable (November or early December). As it was the weather in Brisbane has not been conducive to making good pitches, due to the rain. But this one is something of a joke.
The last point on the pitches is that the modern Australian pitch does not wear like pitches elsewhere. One of the reasons is the drop-in pitches. They hold together so well that teams in the 4th innings often have some of the flattest batting conditions.

[3] Our batsmen:
Very few batsmen can hold their heads high in this tour, but we have the top 2 performers by some margin. Even so, our batting has been lacking. There is no consistency and we haven't been able to produce any match winning partnerships. Are the Indian bowlers do good? or are we so bad?

[4] Mental battle:
At the moment, we do not appear to have the self-belief that Australian sides in the past had. India, on the other hand, do. Where has that mental edge gone? What can we do to get it back?
Until our batsmen, in particular, get their mojo back, our team is not going to perform at its best.
And I don't mean the arrogance and stupidity that got some of our players suspended not long ago, I mean the will to pull out match changing efforts. D. K. Lillee had it in spades. So have others, most noticeably in our period of dominance.  But, in recent times, our bowlers and batsmen seem to lack it. Particularly Starc.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on January 18, 2021, 11:40:46 PM
Crash - it's very frustrating.  Drop in pitches ensure loss of character of the 'natural' pitches - a bit like $10 wine - doesn't matter what bottle, if the grape is the same, it will taste the same.

A couple of things:
20/20 has changed the focus of cricket from a contest to run scoring.  Test cricket is about the contest.  A great test match is first innings both done mid day 3 with a difference of 30-50 runs and a run chase of 230 on a deteriorating wicket finishing on the fifth day.  A good 20/20 or 50 over game is described through the runs scored not wickets taken.  Can you imagine a 20/20 where the score is 75 to 78, because the pitch was a bit green?  There would be an outcry.

Bowlers are sacrificed for batting pitches and have to contain, as there aren't often suitable conditions for them to utilise.

From what I gather, our bowlers haven't spent a huge amount of time trying to get the batsmen out, rather bowled without imagination, getting the balance between bouncers and line and length wrong.

The Australian cricket program is now pretty poor in terms of test match prep.  Players were getting picked for tests on 20/20 form.  This does appear to be changing, but there isn't enough Shield Cricket around the test matches.  I'm not sure of the quality of Shield matches (they tried to address this to some point this season, but got interrupted).  Travis Head's first class batting average is under 40.  What are we expecting of him at test level?  We all know Wade's limitations, yet he gets selected and people don't vehemently disagree - first class average is a tick over 40.  At least Cam Green's is over 50.  Who are the others putting up their hand?

I'll actually forgive the batting to some degree.  When you know we're going to be 2 for nothing with the openers out, then it is pretty tough.  There aren't many screaming out to be opening for Australia.

Overall, I'm not sure of the quality of the Australian Second XI.

Finally, there doesn't appear to be a strong captaincy candidate.  We need a Tubby, or AB - both managed to get a lot out of their players.  Waugh and Ponting had a couple of great sides that didn't really need captaining.  Tim Paine has repaired some damage that was done to the image of the team, but we need a captain that is great tactically.  Two Victorians spring to mind, so that won't happen, but Finch and Maxwell certainly understand the game and can inspire.  Henriques is also a good skipper, but not up to international level.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 19, 2021, 07:30:25 AM
Oh for the days of Mark Taylor !!!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 19, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
We all know Wade's limitations, yet he gets selected and people don't vehemently disagree - first class average is a tick over 40.  At least Cam Green's is over 50.  Who are the others putting up their hand?
I suspect he's there for the same reason as Paine, to be the older heads that keep Warner, Smith and the rest of the NSW Cricket Mafia in check!

The long term solution to CA problems is breaking the NSW/MCC monopoly over County Cricket access, everybody in cricket knows the problem, nobody is brave enough to speak it as careers are put at risk! Too often I hear stories of talented kids walking away from cricket because of demands placed on them from interstate, they basically blackmail teenagers/youth into leaving home or else!

Have you ever wonder why so many talented kids seem to end up playing cricket in NSW, it doesn't just happen to players after they are a 1st Class success, it starts when they are 15 or 16 and want a gig on a tour or in the UK! They get offered the chance, with strings attached, mum and day proudly pack up little Jimmie to become a international cricketer, playing in NSW Grade cricket will be the best thing for him trust us. But the system is an abortion, it basically takes the best players from around the country and makes them B-Grade fodder for the locals, while telling them they have a chance, but by birth that chance never really existed! Even the test players accept this, which is why blokes like Starc end up in NSW and welded into the test team.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 11:41:46 AM
So why isn't that out Blocker ?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 01:04:48 PM
Need to rebuild this test team.

Maxwell at six, rotate the bowlers through the side more.   They look shot.

India will go close to winning this.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 01:50:37 PM
Starc...pie chucker.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 02:21:58 PM
Get him off.   Rubbish from the pie chucker.

I told you blokes,  he should have been dropped for this match.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 04:51:52 PM
Need to rebuild this test team.

Maxwell at six, rotate the bowlers through the side more.   They look shot.

India will go close to winning this.
I'd bat Green at five and look at another allrounder at six, IMO Green is a batsman who I dont want burdened with too much bowling given his back looks to be still troubling him when he bowls as he doesnt stretch out. He is a good cricketer and I'd be wanting him as a batsman in the main.
I think we also need to look at Starc and Nathan Lyon being automatics as well.....Starc hasnt performed and I'd be looking at other quicks like Pattinson if fit.  I'd also be looking to play another spinner preferably a leggie depending on the wicket. Lyon has been a good bowler but he lacks penetration at times and on flat tracks I think a leggie on Aus  wickets is more dangerous.
Been impressed with Gill of India....calm temperament and very stylish, he will carve at some big scores given he can handle the bounce out here. I guess you have to expect India to have depth given their massive population and love of the game so its no surprise their B grade/net players are competent cricketers.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Mantis on January 19, 2021, 06:18:30 PM
How humiliating to lose a test series to a “c” grade group of Indians. On Australian home soil. Sack the coach, selectors etc. Including a few players. Just keep letting sides break records that have stood for years dishing up rubbish cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 06:34:37 PM
Ducking disgraceful.

Watching Cummins bowl himself to exhaustion because they can't afford to go to Starc makes me angry. Hazekwoiod the same.  Where's the support!?!

Starc to never,  ever, ever,  play for Australia again.  Really,  really weak effort.

And we've got to many slow,  pathetic fielders like Harris.  Too fat and slow,  have to hide him because it's always two to him.

So angry right now.   Needed to set 350, didn't get it,  bowled wrong lines, lost to a third string side.   Pathetic and Paine will probably retire after this.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 06:44:58 PM
Beaten by a superior team / organisation. Aussies thought they just had to turn up after going 1-0. Bowlers failed, batsman failed, some serious soul searching I would have thought.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 06:46:24 PM
How humiliating to lose a test series to a “c” grade group of Indians. On Australian home soil. Sack the coach, selectors etc. Including a few players. Just keep letting sides break records that have stood for years dishing up rubbish cricket.
Makes us D grade then
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 06:51:45 PM
About as bad as it gets, Paine and Langar have to go IMO Paine just lets the game drift, over bowls Cummins and has no idea about field placings.
We learn nothing about bowling to Pant who just loves Aus conditions and probably turned the series, bowl the same lines hoping he will get himself out because we think he is just a slogger and start with the field back like we are bowling to a tailender.
Paine lets him play himself in and once he is in then he takes over. Starc as Prof said just bowled crape and gave up when Gill climbed into him and Lyon bowled like a Goat this series, the type that gets milked for runs.
Time for changes and a rebuild....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 19, 2021, 06:53:23 PM
Great win by the Indian second stringers - well deserved. Showed real grit and determination. Well done. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 06:55:32 PM
Lyon spent most of this match bowling the wrong line.   There was plenty there for him when started putting it outside off.

Bad captaincy and bad coaching.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 06:58:53 PM
Great win by the Indian second stringers - well deserved. Showed real grit and determination. Well done. 
Paul, Did they win it or did we lose it?..Credit to them as you say and some of their players were actually 3rd stringers who were not even in the test squad. This will go down in Indian cricket history as their greatest series win, this is probably better than our 1970 comeback vs the Pies to win the GF.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 07:00:31 PM
Great win by the Indian second stringers - well deserved. Showed real grit and determination. Well done. 
Indeed Paul. I heard SOD not he radio say the other day, what if the roles were reversed and the series was being played in India and the Aussies had their backs against the wall with their captain returning home and losing key players (say Smith, Labuschagne, Cummins etc), would the Aussies muster the courage to grind out wins? The no answer was resoundingly popular.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 07:02:00 PM
Paul, Did they win it or did we lose it?..Credit to them as you say and some of their players were actually 3rd stringers who were not even in the test squad. This will go down in Indian cricket history as their greatest series win, this is probably better than our 1970 comeback vs the Pies to win the GF.
You can only beat what's in front of you EB. The Indians showed grit, determination, courage, you name it. It was a great performance, Aussies got too darken cocky and they got their just deserts.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 07:09:10 PM
I reckon losing bowlers was a positive as they kept bringing in fresh players.   We just flogged the same group.

Ego and reputation is driving selection,  not production.   It has to stop.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 07:12:35 PM
Lyon spent most of this match bowling the wrong line.   There was plenty there for him when started putting it outside off.

Bad captaincy and bad coaching.
I'd like to see a young leg spinner introduced so we have more firepower, Lyon bowls well in Perth and Adelaide but is nothing special anywhere else...think his best at Brisbane is 4/69 so he isnt likely to run through a team and win you the game on the last day. He is economical but his test average overall is around 31-32 which isnt anything special IMO.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: PaulP on January 19, 2021, 07:14:43 PM
Paul, Did they win it or did we lose it?..Credit to them as you say and some of their players were actually 3rd stringers who were not even in the test squad. This will go down in Indian cricket history as their greatest series win, this is probably better than our 1970 comeback vs the Pies to win the GF.

It's a hard question to answer EB, as it is with any game in any sport - both teams play their part. The Aussies had everything in their favor - ground, experience, history. I would have thought they would win easily, even if they played an ordinary, half rat juice brand.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 19, 2021, 07:19:24 PM
You can only beat what's in front of you EB. The Indians showed grit, determination, courage, you name it. It was a great performance, Aussies got too darken cocky and they got their just deserts.
Dont disagree...we underestimated their fight and spirit and thought they would roll over but these modern Indian players are different and Kholi/Shastri have changed their mindset.
They play hard cricket and we are stuck in the past trying to play mind games instead of doing our homework on their players and concentrating on the basics. Paine and Langar have got to go and we need a fresh start with a captain and coach who can think/react better when the games on the line.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: tonyo on January 19, 2021, 07:44:17 PM
This bowling group has shown on several occasions they cannot get the job done on the last day, especially Lyon.  Should have won the last two tests, but didn't get close in either on a spinning deck. 

Think Stokes in Ashes test as well.

They need to get a bit of snarl into the attack. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 19, 2021, 07:51:45 PM
Suck on that Langer ... duckhead.  If that's the catalyst for kicking his useless arse to oblivion, all good by moi.



Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: rocky on January 19, 2021, 08:27:53 PM
I am no cricket expert by a long way, but I LOVE Test Cricket. Don't watch the other stuff unless I'm desperate. Great result by India. Best effort I have ever, ever seen from a touring Indian team. Just kept producing. Tough, determined and so much better than our blokes. Even their 2nd stringers!
Given all of the above I do believe however we contributed a fair bit to the result by;
1. Bad selections
2. Bad coaching
3. Bad captaining
Our arrogance in the past was  tolerated when we had a multitude generational greats playing. Hell we were so good we used to rotate our bowlers between tests. Now I reckon there are about 5 players total who get a game.
Time to get rid of the deadwood and find more Greene's and Pucovski's
Still a great effort by India. Amazing. Wish I had of got on them in this last test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 19, 2021, 08:35:40 PM
Don't know who the bowling coach is,  but should be sacked by 9.05 tommorrow.

Started with awful selections, compounded by awful bowling plans and poor execution of whatever half arsed plans were in place.   Seriously,  WTF line was Lyon bowling most of today? There was more than enough in that pitch for him to get the job done.   The others never found a dangerous length and they never hit the supposed cracks.

We'll never won't get trophy back in India either - doctored pitches and won't select the right side with a hope if winning.   Two spinners,  two pacemen and an all-rounder for starters. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 19, 2021, 08:49:58 PM
Congratulations to India. They deserved to win with their concentration and effort.

Now, Australia: where do I start? I think I said a lot the other day.
[1] Coaching Staff and technology:
I have no idea what our coaching staff do, except that Langer is the boss. Fair enough: I'm not going to bag him as he has worked hard turning us around after we imploded a COUPLE of years back. He also has a reputation for success.
However:
(a) We never seem to have done enough homework on opposition players. Our field placings looks nice and standard, but the ball generally doesn't go to our players.
(b) If there is a crack or ridge in the pitch, we can never seem to find it. Not even with GPS and pitch radar. Not for the first time, our bowlers have come up short on the last day. The Indians found the cracks and the worn patches. We did not. We didn't even appear to be bowling towards them.
(c) I do not know how much technology we employ, or use in team meetings and training. But we need to do more, so we can actually bowl to where opponents might be vulnerable. We don't do that enough.
Note this test, where we had no idea where to bowl to Pant, Washington Sundar, Shadoul Thakur or Pujara. We have improved against Pujara, as he didn't dominate this series, but we still struggle to get him out. Pant loves playing us as we bowl to his strengths, not his weaknesses. Against other countries, he can't get a game.
(d) Our bowlers do not appear to have a plan, especially when they aren't getting wickets. That is not just the bowlers' fault, but something we need to train to improve.

[2] Selectors:
It has been said that it is harder to get out of the Australian side than it is to get into it. There is a little too much truth in this for my tastes, particularly if the player comes from NSW.
(a) To put it simply, our selection techniques look old fashioned. We do not appear to select players on form. We do not manage our players, so they don't play themselves into oblivion. We do not select horses for courses. It might be good that players do not want to give their spot up, but that allows us to blood players and play the guys who are in the best form.
For example, Mitch Starc is a very up and down player who has injury issues. he is also very much a confidence player and, at the moment, his confidence is low. His pace has been fine, but where are his yorkers, one of his best weapons? Where is the movement through the air?
By identifying when he is in a down patch, we do not let him go back to the Sheffield Shield and find form. Instead we keep playing him and lowering his confidence.
If we went into the game with a stable of 4 - 6 past bowlers and select the ones that are going the best, we would be playing fewer guys who are out of form. And we do have some guys who are worth looking at.
Similarly with the batting. Guys fear losing their spot because they believe someone else who gets a chance might do better. If they were in a squad of 7 - 8 batsmen, they could be easily replaced and not have fear, as they are still in the squad. But it would allow us to mix and match and to play fit players in form.

[3] Sheffield Shield:
I quite like the Big Bash. It is quite entertaining and does help blood Australian players against the best going around. However, our test batsmen never play in it. Nor can our player easily come in or out of the test side when everybody else is playing limited overs cricket.
We should be having shield game going while at least 3 of the 5 usual summer tests are being played. That would give the selectors a much better opportunity to select the best in-form players available. The Big bash does not.
Also the Sheffield Shield is not getting the support it needs. We can only get test quality players by having guys playing under test-like conditions, and for their performances in that form meaning a lot more than it does now. At the moment, the Shield is sort of placed in wherever there is a gap in scheduling something else.
Mind you, one day cricket is also suffering from poor scheduling. It doesn't even get onto free-to-air TV, neither international or otherwise. Scheduling needs a lot of work, and maybe less international cricket. There is almost no time now between tests, which makes players struggle to back up. There is certainly no opportunity to find form during a test series for someone not travelling so well.

[4] Pitches:
This is also a problem in scheduling as much as anything. Putting a test in Brisbane at this time of year is not smart, as there is often considerable wet weather. The Brisbane test should held in November or early December, when conditions are at their best.
Similarly, Perth, best suited as the 2nd test in a series, when the temperature is not 41ºC every day.
Which brings me back to a topic I discussed a few days ago. Other teams generally prepare pitches that suit their team. Even England tries. So, why don't we?
India did not face a single fast, bouncy pitch on their entire tour, something supposedly in our favour. Instead there were games where the pitches suited India more than us. Note this one, which lacked the normal bounce. I've already brought up our inability to move the ball in the air and off the pitch, so I won't go there.
India no longer has the excuse to produce the poor pitches they did: they have lots of money, resources and ground staff. There is no good reason why they should not produce pitches up to our standard. But they don't, even though they actually have a decent number of quicker bowlers available. What do we get? Rolled mud that spins on the first day and never bounces higher than the stumps. Other countries do not have the money the BCCI has. I can understand why some of their pitches may be less than perfect. However, India has no excuse.
New Zealand generally produces pitches conducive to their attacks, no matter what that attack may be. We do not. That is little short of stupidity.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on January 19, 2021, 10:05:02 PM
I am no cricket expert by a long way, but I LOVE Test Cricket. Don't watch the other stuff unless I'm desperate. Great result by India. Best effort I have ever, ever seen from a touring Indian team. Just kept producing. Tough, determined and so much better than our blokes. Even their 2nd stringers!
Given all of the above I do believe however we contributed a fair bit to the result by;
1. Bad selections
2. Bad coaching
3. Bad captaining
Our arrogance in the past was  tolerated when we had a multitude generational greats playing. Hell we were so good we used to rotate our bowlers between tests. Now I reckon there are about 5 players total who get a game.
Time to get rid of the deadwood and find more Greene's and Pucovski's
Still a great effort by India. Amazing. Wish I had of got on them in this last test.

x2
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on January 19, 2021, 11:36:04 PM
Great final session to watch.  Great that India decided to chase the runs - meant the game was alive until the last couple of overs and that all possible results were still on the table.

Overall the series was a good one to watch/follow with no side out of a game, apart from the India brain fade in Adelaide.  Pity the pitches were so placid.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 20, 2021, 08:44:56 AM
I think that the bowling performance in Adelaide covered the fact that we were behind in basically every game and the chances of winning the series were actually slim.  Basically because we never picked the right side.

The side never delivered on the sum of its parts,  it was always making up for shortcomings, which left us chasing all the time.

We never had a successful opening pair,  Burns Warner Harris failed as openers, Pucovski rode luck and natural ability to post a score.  Why pick a half fit bloke off zero match play,  who's ego drove that howler of a call Alfie?

The middle order was very fragile and didn't build on what Smith and Marrus contributed (normally a recovery from a poor start) .  Green and Paine did OK with the bat,  but scores weren't pushed out to good totals.   We never had enough runs.  Lower order batting was also poor.

The bowling was patchy,  with bewildering plans in place and WTF lines and lengths employed.   Starc, going at 4 an over and not maintaining pressure was a real problem.   Needs to find the ability to swung the ball again or be replaced.   Lyon tried to be too cute with???  lines,  although Blocker's assessment of what constitutes a shot didn't help.   Note,  playing with the bat behind the pad is not a legitimate shot,  it's a bluffing tactic used in the subcontinent against spinners.  Green's bowling was very disappointing,  reminds me of Watson.   Straight,  fast and meh.  He's coming back from injury but I didn't see any bite.    Why weren't the bowlers rotated when tired, - looks like more Langer bloodymindedness, which I believe contributed much to this poor performance.

Our fielding, normally a strong point,  was exceptionally bad.  Paine's keeping was messy and poor and we have too many slow fielders lacking mobility who don't turn half chances into wickets - Head,  Puckovski,  Harris - they all look too chunky and need to improve their mobility drastically. Head and Harris are serial droppers.

Hopefully some good will come out of the post Morten,  but in reality we never put out a good enough team to be this mob.   Too many passengers.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 20, 2021, 09:14:30 AM
I think that we underestimated India and didn’t do our homework on the replacements, but what great depth India has!

They played brave cricket to go for the win and that let us in with a chance.  Sadly, our bowling tactics and field placings were lacking and hard to understand.  There’s a sameness about our bowling attack and Green’s inability to take a wicket didn’t help.

Integrity has become important since sandpapergate but, if it was applied across the board, Langer and the selectors would be lining up to hand in their letters of resignation.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 20, 2021, 09:30:14 AM
Green doesn't look fit bowling wise either, very slow stilted run up and I think his back isn't right to bowl quick or for long periods.
Paines batting is just ok imo, you wouldn't pick him as a batsman only like you would Pant, Dekock, Butler,  and his keeping has to be A grade to make up for it and it wasn't this series. Less said about his tactics, field placings either, new batsman need attacking normal fields not everyone on the boundary ie Pant and he does the same with Stokes.It's like he has given up trying to get them out but is waiting for them to get themselves out and when it's the big game changing moments you have to be proactive and make things happen which he doesn't. Having a 4th slip after edge after edge went through isn't rocket science either. Rahane plays with a angled bat which demands a full slips cordon, not a massive gap between 3rd and Gully you could drive a truck through.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 21, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Congratulations to India. They deserved to win with their concentration and effort.

Now, Australia: where do I start? I think I said a lot the other day.
[1] Coaching Staff and technology:
I have no idea what our coaching staff do, except that Langer is the boss. Fair enough: I'm not going to bag him as he has worked hard turning us around after we imploded a COUPLE of years back. He also has a reputation for success.
However:
(a) We never seem to have done enough homework on opposition players. Our field placings looks nice and standard, but the ball generally doesn't go to our players.
(b) If there is a crack or ridge in the pitch, we can never seem to find it. Not even with GPS and pitch radar. Not for the first time, our bowlers have come up short on the last day. The Indians found the cracks and the worn patches. We did not. We didn't even appear to be bowling towards them.
(c) I do not know how much technology we employ, or use in team meetings and training. But we need to do more, so we can actually bowl to where opponents might be vulnerable. We don't do that enough.
Note this test, where we had no idea where to bowl to Pant, Washington Sundar, Shadoul Thakur or Pujara. We have improved against Pujara, as he didn't dominate this series, but we still struggle to get him out. Pant loves playing us as we bowl to his strengths, not his weaknesses. Against other countries, he can't get a game.
(d) Our bowlers do not appear to have a plan, especially when they aren't getting wickets. That is not just the bowlers' fault, but something we need to train to improve.


Kerry OKeefe was on this from almost the start - he has been long praising the Indian's analystics department.  They had a set field and a set plan for every Aus batsman.  You are right in saying we just had the SAME field for every Indian batsman - doesnt look like much homework.  Esp considering many of our coaches and perifery (ie Ponting) have spent so much time in the IPL - surely we could get some first hand intel on all these guys?

The one thing that jumped out to me on the Amazon doc, was when Langer bought in an analtyics guy for the Ashes.  a) Why the fck did he have to bring one in, why isnt there one on staff, b) the Analytics guy basically said "hit the top of off" - no sht mate!!,  c) they didnt really seem to take him seriously

How many coaches, paid how much, with how much time with the team, and we dont seem to have decent plans for each batsman????
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 21, 2021, 01:51:04 PM
The bowling was patchy,  with bewildering plans in place and WTF lines and lengths employed.   Starc, going at 4 an over and not maintaining pressure was a real problem.   Needs to find the ability to swung the ball again or be replaced.   Lyon tried to be too cute with???  lines,  although Blocker's assessment of what constitutes a shot didn't help.   Note,  playing with the bat behind the pad is not a legitimate shot,  it's a bluffing tactic used in the subcontinent against spinners.  Green's bowling was very disappointing,  reminds me of Watson.   Straight,  fast and meh.  He's coming back from injury but I didn't see any bite.    Why weren't the bowlers rotated when tired, - looks like more Langer bloodymindedness, which I believe contributed much to this poor performance.


Time to go back to Craig McDermott coaching philosophy - "pitch it up and let it swing".  Did we see a single aussie ball deviate in the air?  They are so concerned with banging it in just short of a length to dry up runs, they dont give it a chance to swing.  Green hoops it all over the place for WA, then pulls on the baggy green and is gun barrell straight.... im sure thats due to following the team rules and being to scared to pitch it up
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 03:43:14 PM
Time to go back to Craig McDermott coaching philosophy - "pitch it up and let it swing".
T20 has killed off swing bowling, there is hardly a single kid going around who can get it off dead straight!

Scrambled seam is the new black, but it's a very boring colour!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 21, 2021, 03:46:03 PM
Time to go back to Craig McDermott coaching philosophy - "pitch it up and let it swing".  Did we see a single aussie ball deviate in the air?  They are so concerned with banging it in just short of a length to dry up runs, they dont give it a chance to swing.  Green hoops it all over the place for WA, then pulls on the baggy green and is gun barrell straight.... im sure thats due to following the team rules and being to scared to pitch it up
Our bowlers dont swing the ball like other teams, Starc does on occasions when he gets his act together but its more a hit the deck and seam it type attack which will probably do well in South Africa who have the same type of pitches and bowlers.
Your point is a good one though and Mark Taylor wants Sayers and Worrall to be considered when necessary with Starc to miss out. I think Neser or Abbott might get a game in the near future.
 Green is impressive but after Cummins and crew have bowled he looks like a medium pacer and I think the Indians viewed him as light relief. I wouldnt want to over bowl him or make him step up his pace as he looks the injury prone type and we need him for his batting. Maybe he can bowl 130-135km and concentrate more on swinging the ball and leave the bouncers etc the frontline bowlers.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 21, 2021, 03:52:58 PM
T20 has killed off swing bowling, there is hardly a single kid going around who can get it off dead straight!

Scrambled seam is the new black, but it's a very boring colour!
Thought the new kids Shardul and Natajaran swung the ball well for India, the former looks a real player as he can bat and get his pace up to 140km as well. IMO the AUS pitches/condition are all about 6'6" bowlers hitting the deck hard and trying to intimidate the opposition and swing bowlers are more of a novelty. When banana bender bowlers like Boult and Southee struggle to swing it when they play in Aus who would want be a swing bowler?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Thought the new kids Shardul and Natajaran swung the ball well for India, the former looks a real player as he can bat and get his pace up to 140km as well. IMO the AUS pitches/condition are all about 6'6" bowlers hitting the deck hard and trying to intimidate the opposition and swing bowlers are more of a novelty. When banana bender bowlers like Boult and Southee struggle to swing it when they play in Aus who would want be a swing bowler?
And we give the kookaburra the heave-ho to placate the pommie bastards!

For the Duke, which is now of course owned and made in India, more BCCI tenticles?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 21, 2021, 04:27:29 PM
The scary thing about Indian cricket is that their Test players aren't all from private schools now.  Now wonder they have such depth!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 04:31:50 PM
The scary thing about Indian cricket is that their Test players aren't all from private schools now.  Now wonder they have such depth!
Are you seriously asserting privilege derails, subdues or obstructs progress? :D

How does that work with the caste system? :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 21, 2021, 04:48:49 PM
For the Duke, which is now of course owned and made in India, more BCCI tenticles?

LP

"Currently, the red Dukes cricket ball is used by England, West Indies and Ireland for Test matches. India tends to prefer the locally-manufactured SG cricket ball while the other Test-playing nations use the Australian-manufactured Kookaburra ball".

That's the info I have and not sure they're (the Dukes) are made in India ... perhaps Pakistan
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 05:42:21 PM
LP

"Currently, the red Dukes cricket ball is used by England, West Indies and Ireland for Test matches. India tends to prefer the locally-manufactured SG cricket ball while the other Test-playing nations use the Australian-manufactured Kookaburra ball".

That's the info I have and not sure they're (the Dukes) are made in India ... perhaps Pakistan
I thought that SG bought out the old Duke factory a year or two back, I recall watching a story about it during the last ashes.

I know Australia dominates the sales of the fancy coloured stuff for T20 and ODI, white. yellow, pink, orange, etc., etc. I'm not sure about the traditional pills.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 21, 2021, 06:15:42 PM
Are you seriously asserting privilege derails, subdues or obstructs progress? :D

How does that work with the caste system? :o
Shubmann Gill is from a well to do family and his father had the plantation/farm workers giving him throw down bouncers to practice his skills...seemed to work well.
Conversely I think Natajaran was plucked from obscurity and his parents were of a humble village background so India must have a very wide network of talent scouts combing all the states and watching cricket at all levels.
The IPL has become a fertile grounding for Indian players and they receive coaching from some of the best in the world both playing and retirees...ie Ricky Ponting is helping train some of those players who beat us and has had a lot to do with players like Pant. No doubt money and resources are huge like the population and its hard to see them ever falling over like what happened to
the West Indies after they ruled world cricket for a decade.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 21, 2021, 06:17:50 PM
I understand that British Cricket Balls Ltd still makes Dukes balls.  The company has been owned by an expat Indian since the mid 1980s.

The wording of the descriptions of the range of Dukes cricket balls suggests that only the top of the range balls are still manufactured entirely in England:

https://www.dukescricket.co.uk/Dukes_Cricket/Cricket_balls.html
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 21, 2021, 10:50:27 PM
I understand that British Cricket Balls Ltd still makes Dukes balls.  The company has been owned by an expat Indian since the mid 1980s.

The wording of the descriptions of the range of Dukes cricket balls suggests that only the top of the range balls are still manufactured entirely in England:

https://www.dukescricket.co.uk/Dukes_Cricket/Cricket_balls.html
Fair enough, I'm probably wrong but I'm sure I watched a doco during the last Ashes series talking about the takeover of Duke by an Indian Sporting goods maker SG. The deal was that Duke gain access to a coloured pill technology that competes with Kookaburra, allowing Duke to market coloured pills. To be fair I can't recall if they said manufacture of the traditional balls was moving to India or perhaps it was just the coloured stuff.

It could be that SG bought the old Dukes factory, and Dukes moved to the new location, that might be where I've got it wrong.

I do remember a whole segment in the doco showing the SG using the traditional Dukes techniques for the manufacture of first class pills, all still done by hand.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 22, 2021, 09:30:51 AM
And we give the kookaburra the heave-ho to placate the pommie bastards!

For the Duke, which is now of course owned and made in India, more BCCI tenticles?

I thought we started using the Duke, for half of the Shield season, so that our guys would have experience with it, prior to an Ashes tour.  Unlike previous tours, where the first time some guys saw a Duke was when they openned a bag of balls in the first net session of the tour.  Actually seemed like a rare logical decision for CA
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on January 22, 2021, 10:01:02 AM
@LP Perhaps SG manufactures cricket balls for finishing by BCB.  Their website indicates diminishing English involvement in manufacture as you go down the range.  I can imagine a wizened old gaffer sitting at a scarred workbench and lovingly stitching Dukes balls destined for Test cricket.  I hope he has an apprentice  :)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 22, 2021, 11:33:13 AM
I have a display for my stuff and on one shelf are a pair of RH gloves and in each hand are brand new Kookaburra balls, test and one day.

https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;sa=tmpattach;attach=post_tmp_827_513ea1ca3650f075674ef31263e705da;topic=5301

They weren't cheap and that was 20 years ago
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 22, 2021, 12:57:10 PM
@LP Perhaps SG manufactures cricket balls for finishing by BCB.  Their website indicates diminishing English involvement in manufacture as you go down the range.  I can imagine a wizened old gaffer sitting at a scarred workbench and lovingly stitching Dukes balls destined for Test cricket.  I hope he has an apprentice  :)
Not surprised, I remember the doco covering a whole bunch of supply issues.

 For example cattle have changed over the years, cowhides get thicker, thinner or change characteristics subject to breeding practises, so sourcing the right leather is becoming a big issue. Not surprising when you hear it mentioned, everything we humans do to "make stuff better" has some form of unintended impact.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on January 22, 2021, 01:05:06 PM
Nice display, Capcom.  I think the international balls are still hand made >$120 each (possibly $150 by now).  The 2 piece balls that we play with are $50+ each.  This season with all games being one dayers, it is expensive!

As an aside, a lot of comps have the first couple of grades playing in coloured clothes for one dayers.  The have now reverted to whites, as Kookaburra don't have enough stock of white balls to cover the number of one dayers!

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on January 22, 2021, 01:47:52 PM
This bowling group has shown on several occasions they cannot get the job done on the last day, especially Lyon.  Should have won the last two tests, but didn't get close in either on a spinning deck. 

Think Stokes in Ashes test as well.

They need to get a bit of snarl into the attack.

The fish rots at the head. Paine is a poor, panicky captain and the players played in that ,ould with great intent. What were his plans, field placings terrible, bowling plans, who knows. Worst captain since Yallop. On the other side Rahane drags a side very depleted, that's used 20 players, to a win they should never have had. That played with great want and intent and got rewarded. We essentially played with two bowlers and two batsmen, with a decent effort from Green. 1-0 up in the series, Paine has the best bowling attack in the world, India’s skipper goes home, they play 20 players, a lot of them no-names, Paine wins the toss three out of four, he stuffs up countless DRS reviews, he drops catches, he misses stumpings, he loses his cool with embarrassing sledging and ultimately he is in charge of a team that loses the unlosable series.

Need to go back to Smith for the SA Tour. Our choices are limited there right now so it's Smith. While never classified as a great captain, he was a good captain, had a ruthless edge good plans, bowlers with in partnerships with constant pressure. We could get the job done on the 5th day. This summer, by contrast, outside the constant use of the short ball how many time did we see consecutive ball in the same spot, a stock ball, building pressure with dots building pressure. What was with Sydney with that constant shot pitched bowling on a dead flat block of concrete. Just like the panicky debacle at Headingley, we were in a dominate position in the last 2 Tests for a draw and a loss against a depleted team. Paine can piss off. Because of Paine's leadership we are out of the top 2 on the WTC Table. top 2 play the final at Lord's. we need to beat SA 2-0. Can do it with Smith, no chance with Paine. Good leaders are everything.

First Test in SA...

Khawaja (short term until we find someone longer term)
Warner
Labuschagne
Smith (c)
Pucovski
Green
Carey
Cummins
Richardson
Lyon (just holds his spot)
Hazelwood
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 22, 2021, 04:06:20 PM
The fish rots at the head. Paine is a poor, panicky captain and the players played in that ,ould with great intent. What were his plans, field placings terrible, bowling plans, who knows. Worst captain since Yallop. On the other side Rahane drags a side very depleted, that's used 20 players, to a win they should never have had. That played with great want and intent and got rewarded. We essentially played with two bowlers and two batsmen, with a decent effort from Green. 1-0 up in the series, Paine has the best bowling attack in the world, India’s skipper goes home, they play 20 players, a lot of them no-names, Paine wins the toss three out of four, he stuffs up countless DRS reviews, he drops catches, he misses stumpings, he loses his cool with embarrassing sledging and ultimately he is in charge of a team that loses the unlosable series.

Need to go back to Smith for the SA Tour. Our choices are limited there right now so it's Smith. While never classified as a great captain, he was a good captain, had a ruthless edge good plans, bowlers with in partnerships with constant pressure. We could get the job done on the 5th day. This summer, by contrast, outside the constant use of the short ball how many time did we see consecutive ball in the same spot, a stock ball, building pressure with dots building pressure. What was with Sydney with that constant shot pitched bowling on a dead flat block of concrete. Just like the panicky debacle at Headingley, we were in a dominate position in the last 2 Tests for a draw and a loss against a depleted team. Paine can piss off. Because of Paine's leadership we are out of the top 2 on the WTC Table. top 2 play the final at Lord's. we need to beat SA 2-0. Can do it with Smith, no chance with Paine. Good leaders are everything.

First Test in SA...

Khawaja (short term until we find someone longer term)
Warner
Labuschagne
Smith (c)
Pucovski
Green
Carey
Cummins
Richardson
Lyon (just holds his spot)
Hazelwood
Some fair points Jim, I go with Whiteman at the top of the order.....Saffies attack isnt bad with Rabada and fellow quick Anrich Nortje who is express so I would expect making runs will be hard work but their batting is poor with only Elgar and Dekock as consistent players.
Pity Pattinson isnt fit as he would be my ideal Starc replacement although I am sure Starc will play, Lyon is a question mark player
for me, has a bowling average of 40 vs the Saffies and their grounds are not big. He probably starts 1st test but I'd have Swepson in the touring party as insurance.Like to see Labuschange get more overs, he bowls some rubbish but also bowls some decent stuff and you have to try and fiddle wickets every now and then and its an area Paine struggles to do.
Lot of pressure on Warner who has a good record vs the Saffies and of course Smith, you would expect flat hard wickets again in SA which suits their quicks and I think Warner can turn it around in this short series and be a match winner.
I like Carey but is only averaging 34 in 1st class cricket and thats not enough to demand a place IMO....if I was going a new keeper it would be Ingles from WA and Whiteman would be my reserve keeper.
Pucovski with his concussion issues is  going to be tested with the short stuff  and we will see what he is made of, Saffies play it tougher than most teams and with Nortje going at 156kmh in the IPL its going to be a barrage of bouncers IMO so I hope the umpires are of the neutral variety and not all from Saffie land.
I'll go Aus 2-1 as I expect the players under pressure like Warner and Starc to deliver, should be fun to watch too as the Saffie Crowds are a bit like Collingwood ferals and really give it to our blokes and I expect sandpaper sales to increase for the 1st test..😜
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on January 22, 2021, 04:53:31 PM
Some fair points Jim, I go with Whiteman at the top of the order.....Saffies attack isnt bad with Rabada and fellow quick Anrich Nortje who is express so I would expect making runs will be hard work but their batting is poor with only Elgar and Dekock as consistent players.
Pity Pattinson isnt fit as he would be my ideal Starc replacement although I am sure Starc will play, Lyon is a question mark player
for me, has a bowling average of 40 vs the Saffies and their grounds are not big. He probably starts 1st test but I'd have Swepson in the touring party as insurance.Like to see Labuschange get more overs, he bowls some rubbish but also bowls some decent stuff and you have to try and fiddle wickets every now and then and its an area Paine struggles to do.
Lot of pressure on Warner who has a good record vs the Saffies and of course Smith, you would expect flat hard wickets again in SA which suits their quicks and I think Warner can turn it around in this short series and be a match winner.
I like Carey but is only averaging 34 in 1st class cricket and thats not enough to demand a place IMO....if I was going a new keeper it would be Ingles from WA and Whiteman would be my reserve keeper.
Pucovski with his concussion issues is  going to be tested with the short stuff  and we will see what he is made of, Saffies play it tougher than most teams and with Nortje going at 156kmh in the IPL its going to be a barrage of bouncers IMO so I hope the umpires are of the neutral variety and not all from Saffie land.
I'll go Aus 2-1 as I expect the players under pressure like Warner and Starc to deliver, should be fun to watch too as the Saffie Crowds are a bit like Collingwood ferals and really give it to our blokes and I expect sandpaper sales to increase for the 1st test..😜

I'm not so worried about Carey's first class average. Often they can be lower. There's often reasons for that. They come in young, pitches are made for 4 days instead of 5 etc. I more look at current form. Michael Clarke only had an average of 34 when he played his first Test. We knew he was ready though. I look at current form more than anything.  Starc would have to improve alot. That was a very poor, series losing season for him. Jhye Richardson is the best of the bowlers outside of the one's in the side and he would be my first choice.

I'm a big believer in leadership and often the sides plays in the mould of the captain. Hence no way I go with Paine. Too many 5th days failure when under pressure. Plus he dropped catches and missed stumping, which cost us the series. Batting ok but he's there for his keeping, which has crashed. Happens at 36yo. Unfortunately for his captaincy too, which was something horrible. He's goes to the retirement.

Lyon is just in.  As you said, wouldn't want to struggle the First Test.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 22, 2021, 07:00:44 PM
I'm not so worried about Carey's first class average. Often they can be lower. There's often reasons for that. They come in young, pitches are made for 4 days instead of 5 etc. I more look at current form. Michael Clarke only had an average of 34 when he played his first Test. We knew he was ready though. I look at current form more than anything.  Starc would have to improve alot. That was a very poor, series losing season for him. Jhye Richardson is the best of the bowlers outside of the one's in the side and he would be my first choice.

I'm a big believer in leadership and often the sides plays in the mould of the captain. Hence no way I go with Paine. Too many 5th days failure when under pressure. Plus he dropped catches and missed stumping, which cost us the series. Batting ok but he's there for his keeping, which has crashed. Happens at 36yo. Unfortunately for his captaincy too, which was something horrible. He's goes to the retirement.

Lyon is just in.  As you said, wouldn't want to struggle the First Test.
I think Paines batting is inflated by not outs and where he bats, he isnt in the same parish as Pant, DeKock, Butler, Bairstow, Watling etc as a batsman and his keeping which was his forte has dropped off.
I dont mind Richardson but I think Abbott or Neser will start ahead of him as long as Langar/Paine are running the team.
With no Paine I reckon we would go with Cummins as captain which isnt ideal IMO, Ian Chappell wants Warner but that wont happen and Smith is the other option but I wouldnt be returning him in SA as Captain at the scene of the crime.
Interesting that Maxwell and Finch have been told by Victorian cricket they are finished at Shield level too so they wont be returning as test players...Finch might have been an outside chance to captain Australia if he had some form.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on January 24, 2021, 06:36:45 PM
Paine could have had a much longer career had it not been for injury: he missed a lot of cricket over the years. The reason he was so highly rated was his keeping first and foremost. His batting was potentially good, good enough to open for Tasmania. but his results with the bat have never equaled his theoretical potential.

Paine has been quite a reasonable captain for us, especially as he took the job on in very difficult circumstances. But at his age, cracks are appearing. He is 36, which does explain how his keeping has dropped off. He is still one of the better keepers, but he is on the decline.
So, do we look to the future?

There are a number of good young keepers going around, a number of which are decent batsmen. Carey appears to be leading the pack, but he has played little first class cricket since entering the Australian white ball squads.
Nor is he alone in this area. Adam Zampa could be considered as a spinning option, but for the fact that he hasn't played any first class cricket of note in over a year.
How are these guys going to impress in the test arena, if they play so little multiple day cricket games?

If Paine is put out to pasture, something that must happen sooner or later, then the captaincy issue will become acute.
(a) Smith has made a good return to test cricket, but I wouldn't give him the captaincy again. He was a great performer, but not a great captain. while he had the job.
(b) Warner has the aggression as a captain that could be useful. However, like Shane Warne in his day, his copy book is blotted. Warne was a fantastic captain, especially in the field. But his behaviour kept him from showing it very often. The same for Warner. And he isn't getting any younger either.
(c) Cummins appears to have the tactical nous and the ability as a bowler to be a great leader, but one of the secrets of captaincy is the ability to make clutch decisions. A man who has bowled 20+ overs in a day is going to be tired. It is natural. Tired people do not generally make the best decisions. It is the reason so few fast bowlers have been captain in the history of the game.
(d) There have been rumours about that Glenn Maxwell and Aaron Finch, both of whom have excellent captaincy credentials, have been informed that their future at Sheffield Shield level is limited. That definitely stops either of them from parachuting into the Captaincy. Neither is young either. Finch is 34 and is past his peak, even in the white ball game. He has been excellent in recent times, but he cannot survive another form drop like he had a couple of years back.
(e) Marnus Labuschagne might be an answer: his spot in the team looks very solid. However, he hasn't had a lot of captaincy experience to date. I don't know if he has the tactical nous for the job yet.
(f) The selectors gave Head a long go as VC, as he does have some captaincy ability. However, he is no certainty to regain his place and doesn't look like his spot would ever be a given.
(g) Matthew Wade has good captaincy skills, but his place as a batsman is slipping away. He is not young either. Apparently he is colourblind, something I only just discovered. His keeping days are behind him.

At some point, Cricket Australia is going to have a hard choice on at least 2 fronts. Do they bite the bullet now, and allow the newbies to grow into the positions available before the Ashes? or do they wait for performances to drop off further?

To add to that, we also have the question of an aging spin attack. Nathan Lyon, who has been brilliant for us, the best off-spinner ever to play for Australia, is showing signs of 'decay'. He really struggled against India and could barely get a wicket or stop the runs. He is 33 and not getting better (except maybe his batting).
Who are the next spinners we have? Are any of them ready for test cricket? And how do we tell, when we produce pitches than don't wear much?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 25, 2021, 05:16:31 PM
The fish rots at the head. Paine is a poor, panicky captain and the players played in that ,ould with great intent. What were his plans, field placings terrible, bowling plans, who knows. Worst captain since Yallop. On the other side Rahane drags a side very depleted, that's used 20 players, to a win they should never have had. That played with great want and intent and got rewarded. We essentially played with two bowlers and two batsmen, with a decent effort from Green. 1-0 up in the series, Paine has the best bowling attack in the world, India’s skipper goes home, they play 20 players, a lot of them no-names, Paine wins the toss three out of four, he stuffs up countless DRS reviews, he drops catches, he misses stumpings, he loses his cool with embarrassing sledging and ultimately he is in charge of a team that loses the unlosable series.

Need to go back to Smith for the SA Tour. Our choices are limited there right now so it's Smith. While never classified as a great captain, he was a good captain, had a ruthless edge good plans, bowlers with in partnerships with constant pressure. We could get the job done on the 5th day. This summer, by contrast, outside the constant use of the short ball how many time did we see consecutive ball in the same spot, a stock ball, building pressure with dots building pressure. What was with Sydney with that constant shot pitched bowling on a dead flat block of concrete. Just like the panicky debacle at Headingley, we were in a dominate position in the last 2 Tests for a draw and a loss against a depleted team. Paine can piss off. Because of Paine's leadership we are out of the top 2 on the WTC Table. top 2 play the final at Lord's. we need to beat SA 2-0. Can do it with Smith, no chance with Paine. Good leaders are everything.

First Test in SA...

Khawaja (short term until we find someone longer term)
Warner
Labuschagne
Smith (c)
Pucovski
Green
Carey
Cummins
Richardson
Lyon (just holds his spot)
Hazelwood

Amen - love this post. Agree with all of it.  And agree 100% with that team (with a fit jimmy patto as next choice quick)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 26, 2021, 07:31:59 AM
My problems with this team mainly revolve around the openers..... Cameos Khawaja,  who has played one decent innings versus off spin in a totally unfulfilled career, and a fading Warner,  with his completly on/off form over the past two years,  plus he'll be crucified by the SA crowds etc.   CA are as weak as piss, stood by and did F all while the whole SA set up used gutter tactics to extreme levels. At the very least deKock should have been censured for his behaviour.  Fancy letting officials walk around with Sonny BW masks.  And we're the bad guys?

Longer term I still reckon Renshaw has what it takes to open,  just can't find the key to unlock whatever it is that's missing.

And that side is old,  too old. 

Left field,  but I'd pick Maxwell at six to offer a counter punching option and some spin,  plus at least he can field unlike other contenders.   Captained Victoria well at times too.  Why Neser also can't get a game staggers me,  oh wait,  he doesn't live in Bankstown or Manly.  No more NSW entitlement.  Too many inflated heads.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 26, 2021, 08:59:18 AM
NSW cricket mafia pushing Sangha based on BB form,  what a dead set joke.   The spin cupboard must be awfully bare ATM.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 26, 2021, 10:01:17 AM
Left field,  but I'd pick Maxwell .........................
If the news rags are accurate even Maxwell has given up on that dream ................ what is worse I've heard Maxwell and Finch have been told don't bother rolling up for Vic Shield cricket either! That's cutting them off at the source so that even if the weight of public opinion grows in their favour they'll have no basis for a claim.

This is how the cricket mafia works, it's tenticles cross all borders, even oceans.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 08:27:21 AM
That's Cricket Victoria being straight out stupid, but then again, a lack of common sense and overt politicking have beset cricket at all levels for a long time.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 27, 2021, 08:31:22 AM
That's Cricket Victoria being straight out stupid, but then again, a lack of common sense and overt politicking have beset cricket at all levels for a long time.
Or corrupt, where does the motivation come from.

It seems that fundamentally it is all about maximising dollars in the long term scheme of things, but for who?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 27, 2021, 11:53:14 AM
If the news rags are accurate even Maxwell has given up on that dream ................ what is worse I've heard Maxwell and Finch have been told don't bother rolling up for Vic Shield cricket either! That's cutting them off at the source so that even if the weight of public opinion grows in their favour they'll have no basis for a claim.

This is how the cricket mafia works, it's tenticles cross all borders, even oceans.

Does seem a bit much if Vic rolls out  Finch, Maxwell, Handscome in the top 6 - half your top 6 with no real chance of playing test cricket again... should be trying to produce future test players (def dont drop them all, you do need some senior players to keep comp tough) - maybe this is the thinking?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 27, 2021, 12:10:45 PM
Wade axed from the test squad to South Africa and Carey in along with Steketee,... Abbott, Neser and Swepson have maintained their places in the squad. Not sure Paine will be thrilled seeing Carey in the squad and I think the pressure will be on him to perform as captain as well as with the gloves and bat.
Steketee may be the leading Shield quick this season in terms of wickets? but has also come from the BBL and bowls a reasonable line but IMO wont bother the Saffies or anyone else too much. Honest trier at best IMO.
Saffies are playing Pakistan and were rolled for 220 but their quicks are all over the Pakis and have them 4 for 30 odd which i think tells you plenty about how they roll as a test nation in todays cricket and we should find them a lot easier than the plucky Indians to dismiss, its whether we can stand up with the bat and I think Smith might give us the edge in that area given he is the standout batter in either team.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 01:37:14 PM
Net bowler for Smith EB.

Went to a Cricket Vic session this morning EB,  there really is a purple circle on the white board (figuratively speaking) mate.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 02:12:19 PM
Only two Vics in the test squad,  might be time to rebuild because that's rubbish for the second most populous state.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 27, 2021, 03:06:25 PM
Only two Vics in the test squad,  might be time to rebuild because that's rubbish for the second most populous state.
As I've stated before, the world is gobsmacked our national team had no room for Maxwell, the rest of the planet rates him as one of the world's greats.

Maxwell is probably worth more the team just fielding in covers or gully than Head is with the bat!

Locally Maxwell is bagged for his erratic behaviour, yet many of the same people doing the bagging keep selecting Warner with impunity!

FMD, what has Zampa done wrong too, how does Swepson get a run ahead of that kid?

In comparison to Zampa, Swepson looks to be like a Pie Chucker who has the ability to deliver a one in a thousand unplayable ball, and then cannot repeat it! The first rule of good bowling, any bowling, is control, of course I write this and I presume they've picked Starc again! Starc is the test teams version of Liam Jones, a captain of chaos!

FMD, Henriques and Nesser, do we have to take our own commentary team? I'm pegging Moises for Captainano if Paine slips, and Carey will keep, Henriques now known as the Phoenix!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 08:31:52 PM
How on god's green earth does Henrique's make a test squad. Really!?!  FMD,  play for NSW get a baggy green in a brown paper bag...   Was finished five years ago.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 27, 2021, 09:00:15 PM
How on god's green earth does Henrique's make a test squad. Really!?!  FMD,  play for NSW get a baggy green in a brown paper bag...   Was finished five years ago.
Probably on the back of his BBL work Prof, I wonder if BBL form is more important than Shield form sometimes, makes no sense.Digressing to Purple circles and elitist matey groups, Maxwell has been rumoured not to be popular in the dressing room at test level and I wonder if this has halted his career
more than form.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 27, 2021, 09:50:26 PM
BBL form is not test form,  but our dumbass selectors just don't get it. No wonder we're sh1t at test level.   Why don't we just  pick Phillippe  and Darcy Short to open...and Maxwell!   Now there's some BBL form. I'm not bagging you EB,  but the eye stinging hypocrisy emanating from the selectors is just bewildering.   Moises Hen....I can't even type it,  it makes me nauseous.  It's devaluing the baggy green to a new low.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on January 28, 2021, 02:47:29 AM
Test squad:
Tim Paine (C), Pat Cummins (VC), Sean Abbott, Alex Carey, Cameron Green, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Moises Henriques, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Will Pucovski, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, Mark Steketee, Mitchell Swepson, David Warner.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: spf on January 28, 2021, 02:51:51 AM
Given Pucovski's issues with the short ball, he will get plenty of practice in South Africa. I like the look of Green and he should improve on the tour, but I wonder about our top order against that attack. They will go after Smith and Labuschagne with a lot of short pitch stuff and leg slip fields as it has been successful before. Who makes the runs?

EDIT: I just checked the run-scorers list for 2020/21 season at shield level, Shaun Marsh is the real standout there not presently in the squad. I would like to see him added as reserve opener/top order filler. He can play the short ball and has the game to make runs in South Africa. Marsh has three hundreds and a fifty from four games whereas many others scored the bulk from one innings. It is a sad state we don't have more real competition outside of this group.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 28, 2021, 07:42:26 AM
BBL form is not test form,  but our dumbass selectors just don't get it. No wonder we're sh1t at test level.   Why don't we just  pick Phillippe  and Darcy Short to open...and Maxwell!   Now there's some BBL form. I'm not bagging you EB,  but the eye stinging hypocrisy emanating from the selectors is just bewildering.   Moises Hen....I can't even type it,  it makes me nauseous.  It's devaluing the baggy green to a new low.


That was the point I was making Prof, BBL skills don't translate to Test skills and we end up with players with poor techniques vs the moving ball etc who play wild short format shots at the wrong time. Don't see Henriques playing much cricket as a test tourist and is probably just backup for the injury prone Green.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 28, 2021, 07:49:50 AM
Given Pucovski's issues with the short ball, he will get plenty of practice in South Africa. I like the look of Green and he should improve on the tour, but I wonder about our top order against that attack. They will go after Smith and Labuschagne with a lot of short pitch stuff and leg slip fields as it has been successful before. Who makes the runs?

EDIT: I just checked the run-scorers list for 2020/21 season at shield level, Shaun Marsh is the real standout there not presently in the squad. I would like to see him added as reserve opener/top order filler. He can play the short ball and has the game to make runs in South Africa. Marsh has three hundreds and a fifty from four games whereas many others scored the bulk from one innings. It is a sad state we don't have more real competition outside of this group.
Agree on the short pitched stuff vs Smith, Pucovski and Marnus, though that wicket the Saffies and Pakis were playing on was lifeless and the ball was keeping low on day 2.
If Shaun Marsh is our saviour then we have real problems, can't see him playing for Aus again. Not sure how Head got in the squad either...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Baggers on January 28, 2021, 10:54:50 AM
For the first time in decades I've watched precious little cricket this summer. Not sure whether it's poor selection or poor leadership or whatever, but it just seems that CA has lost direction and too many of our selection choices are not the best available. I hope it changes, and soon. I used to love the cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on January 28, 2021, 11:13:32 AM
Much of the game has descended into a dumbed down circus ...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 28, 2021, 12:24:37 PM
Test squad:
Tim Paine (C), Pat Cummins (VC), Sean Abbott, Alex Carey, Cameron Green, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Moises Henriques, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Will Pucovski, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, Mark Steketee, Mitchell Swepson, David Warner.

No Jhye Richardson is just wrong.  Just takes wickets (including at test level).  GIves a bit of difference to HWood and Cummins (pitches it up a bit more)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 28, 2021, 01:27:57 PM
No Jhye Richardson is just wrong.  Just takes wickets (including at test level).  GIves a bit of difference to HWood and Cummins (pitches it up a bit more)
On form you'd take Richardson over Starc without even blinking, on consistency you'd take Richardson over Starc without blinking, but Starc can bat even if he didn't deliver against India, and while we got such a soft batting line up I suspect Starc is welded into the line-up regardless of poor bowling form. Plus Starc moved the NSW which always means double the opportunity.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 28, 2021, 01:30:23 PM
No Jhye Richardson is just wrong.  Just takes wickets (including at test level).  GIves a bit of difference to HWood and Cummins (pitches it up a bit more)
Been injury prone and I think the selectors want some more long game minutes from him, agree he is lively and bowls a good length. Its very hard to prise Starc and crew out of the team given the boys club that exists.....interesting that Pattinson has made the tour, if fit he might be the one bowler that may oust Starc from the team.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on January 28, 2021, 01:58:12 PM
Been injury prone and I think the selectors want some more long game minutes from him, agree he is lively and bowls a good length. Its very hard to prise Starc and crew out of the team given the boys club that exists.....interesting that Pattinson has made the tour, if fit he might be the one bowler that may oust Starc from the team.
Pattinson and Richardson can both swing the ball late at good pace, Pattinson was the bowler most feared by the Pommie top order batsmen.

I think Starc cleaning up the tail with old ball reverse swing is valuable but over-rated, I'd much rather guys who can knock over the top end and let Lyon clean up the dregs while the others have a break.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 28, 2021, 02:11:20 PM
Pattinson and Richardson can both swing the ball late at good pace, Pattinson was the bowler most feared by the Pommie top order batsmen.

I think Starc cleaning up the tail with old ball reverse swing is valuable but over-rated, I'd much rather guys who can knock over the top end and let Lyon clean up the dregs while the others have a break.
I think both Lyon and Starc struggled to clean up the tail and thats where some of our problems were...both got hammered and Starc hardly moved one off the straight yet the Indian net bowlers moved the ball. Starc was unlucky with some poor fielding but was generally was the bad Starc with no accuracy and bowling inane bouncers wide of the mark.
I wouldnt play him in the first test and go with Pattinson who swings the ball away from right handers even though the Saffies have a few decent left handers in Elgar and DeKock.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Milhanna13 on January 30, 2021, 10:59:16 PM
I think both Lyon and Starc struggled to clean up the tail and thats where some of our problems were...

That is pretty much starc’s only job!!!  If he can’t do it, get Jhye or patto (who can bat!!) in
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 31, 2021, 01:20:40 PM
Travis Head is another who is really at the crossroads. I know it's only BB but his most recent dismissal in the BB was dreadful.  Trying to drag Marnus from wide of off,  that's not the shot of a bloke comfortable with his game.  He's running out of time to get his crap sorted out.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 31, 2021, 03:46:18 PM
Travis Head is another who is really at the crossroads. I know it's only BB but his most recent dismissal in the BB was dreadful.  Trying to drag Marnus from wide of off,  that's not the shot of a bloke comfortable with his game.  He's running out of time to get his crap sorted out.
Head looked terrible, couldnt find the middle of the bat and wasted deliveries trying to slog, when you are struggling you push ones and get off strike but he couldnt even do that, how he made the South African trip is a mystery.
Richardson was ordinary last night and got pummeled by Vince the English player, yeah there was dew on the ball/outfield but he still got carted and couldnt contain what is a 2nd Eleven English player, much prefer Pattinson if he can get and stay fit.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on January 31, 2021, 06:44:41 PM
Yep,  Head was trash versus the heat,  what's wrong with knocking singles around to get in and going?  

I hate to say it EB,  but I reckon that Shaun Marsh is the best credentialed of the "other options" as an opening option.  I know he's 152 years old but he really is a solid player.   Problem is that you get one Marsh and you get the other.... Who is a good short form player but an utter crab at test level.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on January 31, 2021, 07:04:28 PM
Yep,  Head was trash versus the heat,  what's wrong with knocking singles around to get in and going?  

I hate to say it EB,  but I reckon that Shaun Marsh is the best credentialed of the "other options" as an opening option.  I know he's 152 years old but he really is a solid player.   Problem is that you get one Marsh and you get the other.... Who is a good short form player but an utter crab at test level.  

Marsh is averaging 97 in Shield cricket and Head 65 for 2021, hard to go back to Marsh for me though.
Looking through the entire batting order and options...
Inglis is averaging 118 at Shield level but is a keeper, do we do a India and play Inglis as a batsman like they do with Pant?
McDermott is the other with runs at Shield level but I still think of him as a BBL player...
Henriques is going at 67 but as discussed is a long way from test cricket and isnt young either...
Other option is Warner and Harris to open with Pukovski and Green at 5 and 6.
If I wanted another discrete opener I would go with Whiteman from WA, English born, good technique.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 01, 2021, 09:35:26 AM
Another clueless dismissal by Cameos last night, wicket just thrown away when he was looking OK.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 01, 2021, 10:38:37 AM
Another clueless dismissal by Cameos last night, wicket just thrown away when he was looking OK.
Over coached @Professer E‍.

His demise always looks premeditated, like he's a cricket robot that has been programmed or been coached in the moment and can't act in deference to the circumstance.

It reminds me of quite a few of those AFL footballers who to the fans will seem to do just the wrong thing at just the wrong moment, yet are loved by the coach.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 01, 2021, 12:00:21 PM
Don't understand it myself.... Running down the pitch and missing a very average spinner by a metre, saw better at U12s on Saturday.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 03, 2021, 12:31:58 PM
Saffie tour is off due to CoVid, Saffers not happy as they said they complied with all our demands. Was talk the series might have been played in Perth but Graham Smith now head of cricket in SA said a quick No to that idea.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 03, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Saffie tour is off due to CoVid, Saffers not happy as they said they complied with all our demands. Was talk the series might have been played in Perth but Graham Smith now head of cricket in SA said a quick No to that idea.
I suppose this is off the back of the news about the SA COVID variant being perhaps even more infectious than the UK variant, as well as some reports claiming it is less susceptible(more resistant) to the vaccination regimes now on offer.

What does it mean for the two squads hypothesis?

@ElwoodBlues1 Where would you think it's safer to tour, Sth Africa or India?

 I ask because I suspect the bulk of the players will be back at the IPL as soon as possible regardless of the COVID situation.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 03, 2021, 12:44:25 PM
I suppose this is off the back of the news about the SA COVID variant being perhaps even more infectious than the UK variant, as well as some reports claiming it is less susceptible(more resistant) to the vaccination regimes now on offer.

What does it mean for the two squads hypothesis?

@ElwoodBlues1 Where would you think it's safer to tour, Sth Africa or India?

 I ask because I suspect the bulk of the players will be back at the IPL as soon as possible regardless of the COVID situation.
Yep its based around the SA CoVid variant......SA or India?...good question LP, Pakistan have/are touring SA and things seem ok and the SA Govt are saying they are on top of their second wave. I guess if you are playing IPL for big money it makes the choice easier but for me I'd prefer SA, the Saffers were sending their own team and staff into quarantine for 14 days prior to the series beginning and complying with most of what we asked for. Having travelled to India when I was younger I would be a bit more dubious of their healthcare measures..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: laj on February 03, 2021, 01:16:08 PM
We likely out of the World Test Championship Final (WTC) unless results fall our way in the India v England Series. If bloody Tim Paine had've kept control of the over rate in Melbourne and not got WTC points docked  for it then Australia would be playing NZ. Between this, his awful panicky captaincy and catching in the last two Test, Paine has made a complete debauchery of Australia making the WTC final. Really shouldn't hold his job after his efforts against India. Batting was alright but he made a hash of everything else.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 03, 2021, 01:52:54 PM
We likely out of the World Test Championship Final (WTC) unless results fall our way in the India v England Series. If bloody Tim Paine had've kept control of the over rate in Melbourne and not got WTC points docked  for it then Australia would be playing NZ. Between this, his awful panicky captaincy and catching in the last two Test, Paine has made a complete debauchery of Australia making the WTC final. Really shouldn't hold his job after his efforts against India. Batting was alright but he made a hash of everything else.
NZ are now through and it's probably out of India and England to see if they can overtake us. Paine will keep the job for the ashes series now, on his last chance.
Be nice to see NZ win the test final if we don't make it...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 04, 2021, 12:52:47 PM
The whole things a scam EB,  the Indian's over rates were excremently bad all series  yet we get fined...   I smell a rat...really convenient that we're out the running via a penalty,  but the while test championship thing is a joke anyway.   Didn't we utterly flog NZ,  yet they are ranked above us?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 04, 2021, 02:13:32 PM

The whole things a scam EB,  the Indian's over rates were excremently bad all series  yet we get fined...  I smell a rat...really convenient that we're out the running via a penalty,  but the while test championship thing is a joke anyway.  Didn't we utterly flog NZ,  yet they are ranked above us?
We failed in our duty, we should have implemented a better slow over-rate policy, and made sure our policy resulted in action to mitigate slow over-rates.

If we are accused of slow over-rates;

1- Accuse the accuser of racism.

2 - Threaten to boycott the game, walk-off or end the series by packing up and going home.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 04, 2021, 03:32:52 PM
Exactly what id do after the first crap word comes over the fence when we're over there.

Apparently only white male Australians are racists. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 04, 2021, 03:37:57 PM
Exactly what id do after the first crap word comes over the fence when we're over there.

Apparently only white male Australians are racists.
The problem is the money situation isn't symmetric.

The BCCI have used IPL generated dollars to politically leverage the old establishment, I can't see that new order ever going away!

They do not need us, if we do not play nice with them, they can just play with themselves and still be rich and powerful! ;D

I think the old establishment made a mistake, they sold out for the BCCI/IPL dollars and they grossly failed to recognise or leverage in importance of prestige in sport! More than the dollars, someone like Kholi wants to be recognised as the best, all top sportspeople are like that, they do it for free in fact they might even pay their way to be there like an Olympian!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 04, 2021, 04:09:44 PM
The South African tour was cancelled because the return vs risk didnt stack up, Saffies are a minnow money wise and the only teams Australia want to play are India and England where the money stacks up. The CoVid risk gets thrown out the door when its the IPL of course...India rule all forms of the game and control world cricket with the money the generate, there will never be a level playing field for any other country especially in these CoVid times.
All the other countries will just fall into line even the sworn enemies like Pakistan when there is a rupee to be made.
Cricket has become a reality series which generates characters like Kholi whose personal life and what his baby is named is as important as his test average because it all makes money.
Everyone wants a slice of the Indian money, the ability to play a cross bat slog, reverse sweep or ramp shot is going to make you more money than a backward defensive shot with the elbow high and bat straight.
I'm waiting for the player who brings out a cricket book/manual that shows all the one day shots and the lack of technique/footwork required...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 04, 2021, 04:18:29 PM
Cricket has become a reality series which generates characters like Kholi whose personal life and what his baby is named is as important as his test average because it all makes money.
Agreed, no doubt about it, but there is no rule or relationship that prevents all that being distinct from the prestige of the established sport. Like the Tour de France, Augusta, Monacco, Lords, Wimbledon, there is money in it but it's not about the money.

I feel the old establishment needed to retain guardianship over the traditional game of cricket, and so preserve the prestige, not pander to the new world order.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 05, 2021, 07:33:13 AM
Dunno EB,  had a big summer watching a lot of junior cricket,  including a fair bit of rep stuff.  The platitudes seem to go to the kids who flashily slog the the ball around,  but the top scorers and better teams played correct cricket.   People get caught up by those types that go big score X X X X big score,
whereas teams with more consistency seem to win more.   Fireworks are entertaining,  but accumulators/risk aversive batters do better.  Likewise,  the bowlers who stuck to the basics did better than the kids doing funky stuff or bowling express they can't control.   I live in hope EB.   Technique still has a place.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 05, 2021, 10:12:07 AM
Prof, that's good to hear on a junior cricket front, I'm a technique man and enjoy the long form of the game being old school.
I get the short form pays the bills but it has ruined test cricket, the Windies players led by Chris Gayle have abandoned test cricket for the money security of the short formats. The South Africans abandoned local cricket for Kolpak deals in England and the money in the main playing all the county one day comps as registered local players.
There are about two teams only now you can play and make a dollar out of test cricket wise and they are India and England and their players are still schooled properly technique wise. I can only see techniques getting worse and park sloggers playing more test cricket given they will have higher profiles, more exposure and form given they play more cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 05, 2021, 10:47:51 AM
I'll tell you right now EB that the standout kids standout because they have good technique.  The sluggers get found out.

Marnus has a solid technique and I wasn't surprised when he came in an did well.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 13, 2021, 09:30:09 AM
Something I detest in sport is cheating- drugs, rule bending,  gamesmanship,  loop hole pushing or plain old outright cheating.  

To this end,  an interesting interview with retired umpire Holder in today's Guardian.   A few countries appear to have skeletons in the cupboard regarding ball tampering,  including one from which media pundits have been most strident in their criticism of Australia's past actions.   I suspect that this was a big issue across the game for a long time,  and the exposure of the practice was used as an opportunity to expose it for what it is,  and to stamp it out.   I note that reverse swing has since become most uncommon,  except on particularly abrasive pitches such as the recent one in India.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 13, 2021, 01:04:44 PM
Something I detest in sport is cheating- drugs, rule bending,  gamesmanship,  loop hole pushing or plain old outright cheating. 

To this end,  an interesting interview with retired umpire Holder in today's Guardian.  A few countries appear to have skeletons in the cupboard regarding ball tampering,  including one from which media pundits have been most strident in their criticism of Australia's past actions.  I suspect that this was a big issue across the game for a long time,  and the exposure of the practice was used as an opportunity to expose it for what it is,  and to stamp it out.  I note that reverse swing has since become most uncommon,  except on particularly abrasive pitches such as the recent one in India. 
Anyone who has played cricket knows what goes on, only those who haven't or a outright liars will claim otherwise.

I've heard everything in suburban and district cricket from deep freezing the match ball overnight to mixing stuff into the sunscreen so that it makes the pill sticky for spinners. It's not always just about shine, the objective to make one half of the pill different in some way.

One of the best I heard was someone using a water-repellant varnish mixed in sunscreen to rub on the seam so that it stays dry and hard for longer. I doubt the efficacy of that mix, but I understand the thinking as moisture softens the seam, but I suspect sunscreen would soften it equally leaving the varnish ineffective. I believe the Poms would use a very specific brand of boiled lolly for the same purpose, a bit like Castlemaine Rock.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 15, 2021, 07:07:23 AM
Good to see that the Indian spinners got exactly the pitch they wanted.... Funny how our bowlers get dead pitches at home.  But then again,  only Australians cheat don't they?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on February 15, 2021, 07:40:10 AM
Good to see that the Indian spinners got exactly the pitch they wanted.... Funny how our bowlers get dead pitches at home.  But then again,  only Australians cheat don't they?

Food for thought.  Are there more Australians playing ipl than Indians playing in Aus?

If so, then that means the Aussies get an advantage by having a different pitch to play on here because the Indians only get to use it when they come here.

Who is actually cheating in that scenario? 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 15, 2021, 08:18:57 AM
Food for thought.  Are there more Australians playing ipl than Indians playing in Aus?

If so, then that means the Aussies get an advantage by having a different pitch to play on here because the Indians only get to use it when they come here.

Who is actually cheating in that scenario? 

No-one is cheating Thry; it’s perfectly acceptable to prepare pitches that (a) favour the home side and (b) produce results.

The problem is that our curators don’t get it right and our bowlers aren’t good enough to exploit home pitches.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 15, 2021, 08:53:48 AM
Many of the Australians who play IPL aren't in the frame for test selection,  and others, like Smith, had very poor recent IPL form.

Let's be honest, Australian men's cricket has been in the doldrums since....covid struck last year.   Never played enough to work up any sustainable form.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 15, 2021, 09:13:15 AM
The IPL pitches are nothing like the test prepared pitches either, when I saw India picked 3 spinners, were one nil down I knew what was coming. Was like the old days when they would open with one quick and a spinner and look to get the shine off the ball real quick. Joe Root said they would be better playing on a beach than the Chennai wicket..
Moeen Ali was bowling the ball at right angles and he usually can't get them off the straight which tells you how fit the pitch was for test cricket..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 15, 2021, 10:30:21 AM
Moeen Ali was bowling the ball at right angles and he usually can't get them off the straight which tells you how fit the pitch was for test cricket..
Yes, the double standard and hypocrisy is a joke, but nobody has the balls to do anything about it because they all want to line up and put out their hand for the BCCI cash.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 16, 2021, 10:18:55 AM
Some Indian commentator claiming on SEN that's it's not a doctored pitch because India made 284 in the third innings.

I'm calling this F wit out.

It's semantics champ.   It might not be "doctored" but it was prepared to spin from day one.   Balls going through the top in the first session day one is NOT TEST Standard.  It was BODGY before the game started and further diminishes India in the cricketing world's eyes.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 16, 2021, 12:27:34 PM
Anyone interested in class keeping then watch Englands Ben Foakes, there is daylight between Foakes and the other world keepers especially keeping to spinners. Given the emphasis on keepers being able to bat its reduced the standard of keeping IMHO but this bloke is the real deal and it must be politics keeping him out of the English team because he makes Butler and Bairstow look like hacks with the gloves and its not like he cant bat either.
Got robbed of a stumping too, forgot the Indian batsmans name but he had him cold with the bat on the line not behind it but the 3rd umpire didnt have the gonads to give it out as the Indian public would have disassembled the stands but it was out and brilliant keeping.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 16, 2021, 01:11:20 PM
Anyone interested in class keeping then watch Englands Ben Foakes, there is daylight between Foakes and the other world keepers especially keeping to spinners. Given the emphasis on keepers being able to bat its reduced the standard of keeping IMHO but this bloke is the real deal and it must be politics keeping him out of the English team because he makes Butler and Bairstow look like hacks with the gloves and its not like he cant bat either.
Got robbed of a stumping too, forgot the Indian batsmans name but he had him cold with the bat on the line not behind it but the 3rd umpire didnt have the gonads to give it out as the Indian public would have disassembled the stands but it was out and brilliant keeping.
1000% in agreement here @ElwoodBlues1‍, the world has been conned by the career of Gilchrist!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 18, 2021, 09:27:32 AM
Vics showing that some of the NSW test "stars" are no where near as good as they think they are.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 18, 2021, 10:07:18 AM
Vics showing that some of the NSW test "stars" are no where near as good as they think they are.
Individual games are swings and roundabouts, but to me it's clear being a welded on test player is not good for cricket in general. There isn't that much difference between Smith and the rest, not as much as the media and managers make out. I have much the same opinion about AFL players, if you sacked all the incumbents and replaced them with the next 750 in the pecking order you would hardly notice a difference after just one pre-season.

I'm not asking for babies to be thrown out with the bath water, but players have to have a fair crack at being selected or else we'll find fewer and fewer players interested in playing Test Class cricket for Australia, they'll become too jaded and end up IPL pros who are slowly removing themselves from Australian cricket, IPL and BBL is not Australian cricket.

In fact I'm not even sure T20 is cricket at all, you could well replace most bowlers with a machine and pitches with concrete runways!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 18, 2021, 03:53:15 PM
Faf Du Plessis just retired from test cricket to chase the T20 retirement dollars.
Graham Smith is right when saying the game now revolves around the big 3 cricket nations and the once strong South African team is a shadow of the old era that had AB, Steyn, Smith, S Pollock and crew. They may get some players back who signed Kolpak deals to play in England now that scheme is over which should give them more depth but we need a strong Saffie team to keep Test Cricket alive and have a voice in world cricket to help stop the Indian domination of the game.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on February 18, 2021, 04:24:54 PM
Needs a bloc of test teams to counter India's game dominance ... and how likely is that?

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 18, 2021, 04:59:42 PM
Needs a bloc of test teams to counter India's game dominance ... and how likely is that?



Not likely when India unofficially underwrite the game and can attract/bribe the best players with offers too good to refuse.
Indian cricket is bordering on a reality series with Kholi a cricketing Kardashian and everyone else acting/playing along, none of the big money reaches the grass roots except in India.
When you see a team like South Africa get smashed by a Paki team of no names half of whom are probably on the take it just tells you what state the game is in.
Chris Gayle knew the future and gave test cricket away early, why knock yourself out when you can dress up in pretty colours, act like a rock star and collect the big dollars by playing the short formats around the world all underpinned by his status in the IPL.. Still playing at age 41...just too easy driving that Hummer around Jamaica and being the resident Snoop Dog, WTF would you want to play test cricket if you were a Windies kid..and we have India to thank for this demolition of Test Cricket and the weak ICC who just rubber stamp every tournament the Indians throw at them and change everyone else's calendar to suit.
The ICC and the WHO could swap seats and you wouldnt know the difference, both just puppet organisations beholding to their benefactors...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 18, 2021, 08:00:44 PM
The Saffies were finished as soon as the quota system was introduced.  Disenfranchise the senior players and youre always kaput.   Heck,  Kallis had to leave to get a coaching job because of his colour.   There's one who you'd want in the tent,  not in the opposition's camp.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 18, 2021, 09:08:34 PM
The Saffies were finished as soon as the quota system was introduced.  Disenfranchise the senior players and youre always kaput.   Heck,  Kallis had to leave to get a coaching job because of his colour.   There's one who you'd want in the tent,  not in the opposition's camp.
Agree on the quota system, you never see their best team now, its ridiculous how they have to top up their team with players who are not good enough, just to make the quota. You pick the best team whether it be all black, all white or a mixture based on form and only form not the colour of your skin.
Kolpak contracts also robbed them of talent having players being able to play as local players in  English county cricket, they could probably field another team with the players who left for the bigger dollars.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on February 19, 2021, 03:44:41 AM
Agree on the quota system, you never see their best team now, its ridiculous how they have to top up their team with players who are not good enough, just to make the quota. You pick the best team whether it be all black, all white or a mixture based on form and only form not the colour of your skin.
Kolpak contracts also robbed them of talent having players being able to play as local players in  English county cricket, they could probably field another team with the players who left for the bigger dollars.

Welcome to 2021 where how good you are at your job doesnt matter so long as you have equal representation from all colours creeds and sexes.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 19, 2021, 07:54:32 AM
Welcome to 2021 where how good you are at your job doesnt matter so long as you have equal representation from all colours creeds and sexes.
It's driven by fear of litigation.

Lawyers do not have the Hypocritic Oath, doing no harm isn't even a consideration for them, maximising remuneration is the main issue!

What would Amal Clooney think if George and herself were replaced on quotas? But she doesn't have to worry that ever, because the laws she helped draft do not apply to her!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 19, 2021, 09:36:03 AM
Yes... Quotas and the "diversity" issue.   I'm wondering who actually wins in that situation.

This has come up a bit lately in our household,  primarily discussions about role models.   Where are they these days?  Who are they?  For example, my son brought up the fact that he can't identify with any of the Australians of the Year group, and that every time he watches a Hollywood

-type movie the key figure is 35 kg model chick who acquires world class martial arts skills overnight,  with offsiders typically including a meathead alpha male, an attitude-saturated man hater, a black person and an Asian.   The other males are either pretty (and useless) window dressing or an unathletic, geeky tech type.  The protagonist is typically an greying,  middle aged man who is always (lacking back story)  evil, especially to women.  How many stereotypes can be served up in one setting!?!  In the rush to embrace "diversity" I fear we are actually disenfranchising great swathes of the community.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Thryleon on February 19, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Yes... Quotas and the "diversity" issue.   I'm wondering who actually wins in that situation.

This has come up a bit lately in our household,  primarily discussions about role models.   Where are they these days?  Who are they?  For example, my son brought up the fact that he can't identify with any of the Australians of the Year group, and that every time he watches a Hollywood

-type movie the key figure is 35 kg model chick who acquires world class martial arts skills overnight,  with offsiders typically including a meathead alpha male, an attitude-saturated man hater, a black person and an Asian.   The other males are either pretty (and useless) window dressing or an unathletic, geeky tech type.  The protagonist is typically an greying,  middle aged man who is always (lacking back story)  evil, especially to women.  How many stereotypes can be served up in one setting!?!  In the rush to embrace "diversity" I fear we are actually disenfranchising great swathes of the community.
The real issue with it, is we start to practice the exact sort of discrimination they fight against.

Imagine campaigning your whole life to smash the glass ceiling, only for them to prioritise the hiring of people who are not the best candidate available, but instead making the decision based on quotas and targets to have equal representation.

You went to university, but you are a heterosexual male who is married with two kids?  Really sorry, but you miss out on the job.  We need to hire someone who is either Aboriginal, or of Asian/African background, ideally a female, and ideally in a same sex relationship.  Birth gender being the opposite of the one you currently identify for bonus points and credentials just need to be somewhere close to your level of qualification and it will do.  Oh, no experience necessary in that case to.  You go straight to go.

Its not the society I was told we should be fostering.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 19, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
The real issue with it, is we start to practice the exact sort of discrimination they fight against.

Imagine campaigning your whole life to smash the glass ceiling, only for them to prioritise the hiring of people who are not the best candidate available, but instead making the decision based on quotas and targets to have equal representation.

You went to university, but you are a heterosexual male who is married with two kids?  Really sorry, but you miss out on the job.  We need to hire someone who is either Aboriginal, or of Asian/African background, ideally a female, and ideally in a same sex relationship.  Birth gender being the opposite of the one you currently identify for bonus points and credentials just need to be somewhere close to your level of qualification and it will do.  Oh, no experience necessary in that case to.  You go straight to go.

Its not the society I was told we should be fostering.
Humans are the problem.

A great example are some recent indigenous activists, some who turn to be not indigenous at all but accepted into a tribe, the rule being if the tribe says you are part of the tribe you qualify as indigenous. However, I noted that after recent public disputes some tribal elders are now questioning that individuals indigenous status, they are now seen as turncoats, they were really perhaps labelled "conveniently indigenous" for a cause that is no longer a priority!

What would Derrida think, woke isn't always what woke says it is, Indigenous today Euro or Imperialist tomorrow!

It's untenable to leave these definitions up to the opinions of people, but that is exactly where the law currently sits! Racism, persecution, oppression and discrimination is in the eye of the beholder!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 19, 2021, 11:56:43 AM
Thry, that post is scarily close to home,  I've seen exactly that situation play out first hand within large Australian companies. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 19, 2021, 12:02:20 PM
Yes... Quotas and the "diversity" issue.  I'm wondering who actually wins in that situation.
Many of the academics that argue along the lines for quotas have academic "tenure", it's a huge contradiction!

Like Amal Clooney, they debate something that doesn't apply to them!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on February 19, 2021, 01:22:07 PM
Losing the cricket theme, but it is an interesting conversation.

In the work circles that I have, diversity focus is particularly on boards - young, old, gender, ethnicity - but still needing to do the job.

I think that quotas have helped the Labor party get many of its women in.  Sure, the talent started off with a low bar, but as time has gone on, it has shown other women that politics is something that they can be involved in, so more have become involved.  Society has to be better off for that.  AFLW will be an example of that, and I actually don't mind watching women's cricket.

I certainly feel for those who are pushed out of the workforce because they aren't 'diverse'.  Employing someone is all about discrimination until the final one is chosen (typo in that CV, next, don't like your name, next, CV too long, next, CV too short, next, hasn't got 5 years experience for a job that needs none, next - then all the issues that Thry has described, but none written down or spoken about)
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on February 19, 2021, 01:49:12 PM
The real issue with it, is we start to practice the exact sort of discrimination they fight against.

Imagine campaigning your whole life to smash the glass ceiling, only for them to prioritise the hiring of people who are not the best candidate available, but instead making the decision based on quotas and targets to have equal representation.

You went to university, but you are a heterosexual male who is married with two kids?  Really sorry, but you miss out on the job.  We need to hire someone who is either Aboriginal, or of Asian/African background, ideally a female, and ideally in a same sex relationship.  Birth gender being the opposite of the one you currently identify for bonus points and credentials just need to be somewhere close to your level of qualification and it will do.  Oh, no experience necessary in that case to.  You go straight to go.

Its not the society I was told we should be fostering.

And start off with HR managers ... mostly feral man hating females. 
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 19, 2021, 04:02:54 PM
And start off with HR managers ... mostly feral man hating females. 
HR managers in general are just stooges of the management, we had a female who fitted your description, her husband ditched her and she decided the rest of the male population at work would have to suffer for it. Funny thing was she accidentally paid around 650k into my super account by mistake, I did the right thing after mulling it over  :) and contacted the super fund who said it would never have been picked up from their end :'(  and they were grateful but not a word of thanks from Ms HR who did her best to avoid me from that point on and was totally useless when I retired early and needed paperwork signed etc.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 19, 2021, 07:15:48 PM
More evidence that doing the right thing gets you nowhere EB - the bastards are winning, by daylight.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 19, 2021, 09:13:46 PM
HR managers in general are just stooges of the management, we had a female who fitted your description, her husband ditched her and she decided the rest of the male population at work would have to suffer for it. Funny thing was she accidentally paid around 650k into my super account by mistake, I did the right thing after mulling it over  :) and contacted the super fund who said it would never have been picked up from their end :'(  and they were grateful but not a word of thanks from Ms HR who did her best to avoid me from that point on and was totally useless when I retired early and needed paperwork signed etc.


Wouldn't feed em.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 20, 2021, 10:23:23 AM
Many of the academics that argue along the lines for quotas have academic "tenure", it's a huge contradiction!

Like Amal Clooney, they debate something that doesn't apply to them!

Academics with tenure?  I’d like to see that!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 22, 2021, 03:17:52 PM
Quote from: Rohit Sharma
“The pitch is the same for both teams, so I don’t know why there is so much discussion about it. Pitches have been prepared like this in India for years,” Rohit said ahead of the third Test in Ahmedabad, which begins on Wednesday AEDT.

“Every side takes advantage of home conditions even when we travel ... When we travel they (opponents) make our life difficult.

“We make pitches according to our preferences, that’s why it’s called home advantage. Otherwise take away home advantage and ask the ICC to make a rule to prepare the same pitches in India and outside India.”
Can you imagine it if we handed a green top to Starc and Cummins during an Indian tour?

FFS, .............. India is the victim ......... didn't they refuse to play a test in Perth because the wicket gave Australia too much advantage! :o
 

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 22, 2021, 03:20:43 PM
Academics with tenure?  I’d like to see that!
@DJC‍  It's a global perspective, not just domestic.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 22, 2021, 03:49:41 PM
@DJC‍  It's a global perspective, not just domestic.

I think that you will find that academic tenure is limited to some high ranking professors in a few countries such as the USA, Canada, and Germany.  Most academics are on short-term or ongoing contracts and in Australia many are casual employees.

I actually think that the tenure system was antiquated, subject to abuse and did not encourage quality research or teaching.  Casual and short-term employment may be the contemporary norm, but it certainly doesn't encourage research and teaching.  I would prefer to see academics on fixed term or ongoing contracts ... but that's way off topic.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 22, 2021, 05:37:23 PM
I think that you will find that academic tenure is limited to some high ranking professors in a few countries such as the USA, Canada, and Germany.  Most academics are on short-term or ongoing contracts and in Australia many are casual employees.

I actually think that the tenure system was antiquated, subject to abuse and did not encourage quality research or teaching.  Casual and short-term employment may be the contemporary norm, but it certainly doesn't encourage research and teaching.  I would prefer to see academics on fixed term or ongoing contracts ... but that's way off topic.
Melbourne Uni is full of tenured academics on big money who teach 12 hours a week contact hours and complain about it. The Arts area including the old VCA is a tenure goldmine. Lots of academics who have been there 20 years plus just waiting to collect that pot of gold super which they have been building up at 12% plus.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 23, 2021, 09:37:19 AM
T20 performance yesterday was very average.  Stoinis has a nerve bagging out teammates....when did that puffed up gym rat last (or ever?) deliver at an international level?   Maxwell gets bagged for inconsistency, but at least he's done something!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 23, 2021, 09:54:57 AM
T20 performance yesterday was very average.  Stoinis has a nerve bagging out teammates....when did that puffed up gym rat last (or ever?) deliver at an international level?  Maxwell gets bagged for inconsistency, but at least he's done something!
Yesterday's game was all about the anniversary of the Christchurch Quake, as far as I'm concerned it went to script even if the Saffie won the game for NZ.

And that Saffie playing for NZ, yet another consequence of quotas at the top level, like SA can afford to surrender players to other test nations!

I have no problem with quotas at lower levels, domestic and suburban sport, fine, but at elite level you should earn a spot not be rewarded a spot!

I wonder if AFL will eventually have indigenous quotas, perhaps the Filth first based on recent events!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 23, 2021, 10:30:09 AM
Aren't Indigenous players over represented* in the AFL relative to the percentage of the population? 

*note I'm using this term as I don't know the appropriate statistical moniker. It's not a judgement call or anything of that ilk.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 23, 2021, 10:37:26 AM
Aren't Indigenous players over represented* in the AFL relative to the percentage of the population? 

*note I'm using this term as I don't know the appropriate statistical moniker. It's not a judgement call or anything of that ilk.
 Not at the Filth it seems! ;D
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on February 23, 2021, 11:37:03 AM
Yesterday's game was all about the anniversary of the Christchurch Quake, as far as I'm concerned it went to script even if the Saffie won the game for NZ.

And that Saffie playing for NZ, yet another consequence of quotas at the top level, like SA can afford to surrender players to other test nations!

I have no problem with quotas at lower levels, domestic and suburban sport, fine, but at elite level you should earn a spot not be rewarded a spot!

I wonder if AFL will eventually have indigenous quotas, perhaps the Filth first based on recent events!

Indigenous players are seriously over-represented in the AFL.  Quotas would have to be for other ethnic groups  :)

On the other hand, Indigenous players are seriously under-represented in cricket ...

Giving youngsters of all persuasions an equal opportunity and encouragement to take part in sport would be far more effective than any quota system.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 23, 2021, 12:37:32 PM
T20 performance yesterday was very average.  Stoinis has a nerve bagging out teammates....when did that puffed up gym rat last (or ever?) deliver at an international level?   Maxwell gets bagged for inconsistency, but at least he's done something!
Kiwis are very hard to beat at home, lot of their players are unknowns and its an interesting question regarding their foreign legion of players from South Africa/India.
Conway wasnt even a qualified resident when first played for NZ I believe, he had served the three year qualifying period but was still on a Visa, he became a NZ contracted player while on a visa, 100k retainer plus match payments.
Lot of the local players are not happy with the influx of Saffies into domestic cricket, the Saffie comps are of a much higher standard so Saffie players walk into the local teams and are headhunted in some cases due to the quota system in South Africa.

I think the ICC need to look at qualifying periods or we are going to get teams like NZ featuring 50% SA/Indian born players who are the equivalent of Basketball imports...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 23, 2021, 01:38:17 PM
Lot of the local players are not happy with the influx of Saffies into domestic cricket, the Saffie comps are of a much higher standard so Saffie players walk into the local teams and are headhunted in some cases due to the quota system in South Africa.
Yep, players who were just a NAT away from genuinely earning test or ODI selection now find themselves in 23rd place, so they bug out altogether.

That is how quotas work.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 26, 2021, 11:39:39 AM
The BCCI is killing the sport, complain about India's pitches and this is what you get, a Test match over in two days on a strip barely suitable for council approval of pedestrian traffic.

Nobody has the guts to reign the BCCI in, because they want the $BCCI, and because if the BCCI get publicly criticised they'll play the racism card. You could write out the script now and get it 99% correct!

They'll kill the sport, because the priority is profit, they'll argue that profit is good for the sport even if the sport ends up unrelated to what we know as the sport of old!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 26, 2021, 12:09:03 PM
Test over in 2 days in England, the wicket was a spin fest, even part timer Joe Root took 5 for 8 it was that friendly to tweakers.
Think I said previously the Indians would revert to their old ways and create spin nightmare wickets once they were one down in the series. Its farcical and time the rest of the cricket world drew a line in the sand and said we are not going to play games vs these cheats unless they get their act together and prepare decent fair wickets. All countries prepare friendly home town strips to suit their own but this is ridiculous and we almost need neutral pitch inspectors who validate the quality of the wicket before play is allowed.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on February 26, 2021, 01:09:00 PM
Test over in 2 days in England, the wicket was a spin fest, even part timer Joe Root took 5 for 8 it was that friendly to tweakers.
Think I said previously the Indians would revert to their old ways and create spin nightmare wickets once they were one down in the series. Its farcical and time the rest of the cricket world drew a line in the sand and said we are not going to play games vs these cheats unless they get their act together and prepare decent fair wickets. All countries prepare friendly home town strips to suit their own but this is ridiculous and we almost need neutral pitch inspectors who validate the quality of the wicket before play is allowed.
It was at Narendra Modi Stadium, Ahmedabad

Joe Root was embarrassed to talk about it after the 5 wicket haul!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 26, 2021, 04:48:55 PM
It was at Narendra Modi Stadium, Ahmedabad

Joe Root was embarrassed to talk about it after the 5 wicket haul!
Correct was India of course, my brain was on the poor opponent copping those crape wickets...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on February 26, 2021, 05:50:59 PM
Careful EB,  everybody knows only the Aussies cheat,  never those butter wouldn't melt in my Indian types... Nope.  Never.   Not.

Those pitches are so rank those venues should be struck off the roster.  Remember the hoohaa when the MCG was deemed too flat?   Grow some cojones ICC!!!!

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 26, 2021, 06:08:16 PM
Careful EB,  everybody knows only the Aussies cheat,  never those butter wouldn't melt in my Indian types... Nope.  Never.   Not.

Those pitches are so rank those venues should be struck off the roster.  Remember the hoohaa when the MCG was deemed too flat?   Grow some cojones ICC!!!!


Prof, Two day test matches should be enough for the ICC to act, these are meant to be two of the better teams in the world and its just common sense that these last two test matches have been ruined by pitch fixing by the home country.
I wouldnt be bothered sending my best team to India, I'd just send an Australia A team and treat its as a training drill for younger players. What is the point of bowlers like Anderson and Broad turning up to play on wickets that the opposition use spinners to open the bowling with.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: crashlander on February 26, 2021, 09:29:54 PM
Test over in 2 days in England, the wicket was a spin fest, even part timer Joe Root took 5 for 8 it was that friendly to tweakers.
Think I said previously the Indians would revert to their old ways and create spin nightmare wickets once they were one down in the series. Its farcical and time the rest of the cricket world drew a line in the sand and said we are not going to play games vs these cheats unless they get their act together and prepare decent fair wickets. All countries prepare friendly home town strips to suit their own but this is ridiculous and we almost need neutral pitch inspectors who validate the quality of the wicket before play is allowed.

The wicket India produced was a disgrace. Unlike the 1960's, there is no good reason to produce a pitch of rolled mud any longer. Indian groundkeepers are as professional as most now. If the Indians  tried, there simply is no reason to provide this sort of rubbish.

Yes, home teams generally make wickets to suit themselves better, at least somewhat. But this was a case of ridicule.
Cricket Australia asked groundsmen to create pitches that will produce a contest over 5 days. The idea is for the game to close, to keep the public interested and the money coming in. 5 close days at the MCG with 60 000 people minimum each day and Cricket Australia is happy, even if we don't win.

That is not the case in India. They don't get that much money from people attending test matches. They do not aim for tests to last the distance. They just want to win.

Look at Australian pitches for the last 2 tours from India: you will note that the pitches were most unusual. They were slower, lower and less pace friendly. Why? So the test would go the distance.
The other big problem with Australian pitches is that they don't tend to wear much. Most of them are drop in pitches. As a result, our spinners rarely get conditions to suit them. Note that Australia has lost game to SA and India lately with big 4th innings batting displays. That would not have happened 20 years ago (mind you, we also had Warne and McGill, so 4th innings bowling success was not a problem).

Effectively, we do not make the most of our home ground advantages. Other countries do. India has never tried to make tests last.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on April 22, 2021, 11:56:35 AM
Pucovski doesn't get a central contract..... Says that CA thinks he's cooked
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 23, 2021, 02:23:54 PM
Can't send the players to SA because of COVID!

But it's OK for them to play IPL in India! :o
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 23, 2021, 03:08:21 PM
Can't send the players to SA because of COVID!

But it's OK for them to play IPL in India! :o
SA cricket is fecked, no money in going to SA but there would be a revolt if the players were stopped going to the IPL and getting their big pay cheques. The ICC otherwise know as the Indian Cricket Council...lets drop the the International as thats a furphy, wont have the games No 1 money spinning comp curtailed in any way.

Re: Pucovski...another weird decision, the kid does get injured a lot and has had some mental health battles but surely a suitable contract taking onto account those issues could be worked out given his level of talent.
I thought it was illegal to discriminate in the workplace against workers with mental health complaints if thats CA's main issue in terms of him being cooked mentally.?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 23, 2021, 03:36:33 PM
Just a hypothetical.

What if a player missed games for an injury, but the doctors thought that injury didn't really exist?

How would you deal with that in an official sense?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on April 26, 2021, 10:31:59 AM
The Aussie cricketers need to get out of India, sure they are revered on the field and off-field for what they do.

But if they fall, if they suffer a demise, they'll get trampled by the mob!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on May 04, 2021, 11:01:02 AM
Looks like the BCCI has given up protecting the IPL players, they can just wait a week or so and renamed it the Infected Players League!

I'm sympathetic yet indifferent to the likes of Slater moaning, these guys chose to go there for very very good money, despite knowing the risk before they left, a risk they chose to ignore for cash!

If they can pay for charter flights to ferry them to resorts, why the feck can't they stump up for a repatriation flight and the related quarantine costs. Why does repatriation have to come at the tax payers cost when they chose to go for profit?

I'm afraid I'm very cynical, I doubt Slater fears for his wellbeing, he's might even have already been vaccinated, is it his wallet he is protecting?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 04, 2021, 12:08:37 PM
Looks like the BCCI has given up protecting the IPL players, they can just wait a week or so and renamed it the Infected Players League!

I'm sympathetic yet indifferent to the likes of Slater moaning, these guys chose to go there for very very good money, despite knowing the risk before they left, a risk they chose to ignore for cash!

If they can pay for charter flights to ferry them to resorts, why the feck can't they stump up for a repatriation flight and the related quarantine costs. Why does repatriation have to come at the tax payers cost when they chose to go for profit?

I'm afraid I'm very cynical, I doubt Slater fears for his wellbeing, he's might even have already been vaccinated, is it his wallet he is protecting?
Sorry but if you want the big bucks and you take the risk then you are on your own, its a private league and not a Aus government sanctioned tour so Slater and crew need to stop whinging, wear a mask and tough it out.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: dodge on May 04, 2021, 12:20:14 PM
Sorry if this is in the wrong spot

There are still a heap of Aussies scattered around the world that want to come home that can't.  It's only taken 14+ months for the Feds to do nothing useful about quarantine, to then say essentially we have to protect those that are here, we can't allow our citizens to come in from O/S.

I don't think Slater or the cricketers are asking Gov to pay costs - but to give them an opportunity to get home.  The cricketers at least have a voice (although, agree that it is hard to give them sympathy), unlike some, say aid and relief workers, tourists in the wrong place at the wrong time, or those with ill relatives. (A friend of mine's father passed away in India in December (not Covid), really tough on him that he couldn't get there and then help his mum).

Having said that, I have heard reports that the infection & death rate (particularly in India) are under reported by a huge factor.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on May 04, 2021, 12:42:39 PM
Not an ounce of sympathy for the cricketers or Slater and crew.  Cross hire / wet lease a plane yes.  Then give them hell when they land.

And for putting us to the trouble for turning your crap aircraft around and sending it back home?  $200,000.

Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on May 05, 2021, 01:34:51 PM
Nice article;

IPL shambles a result of putting greed above common sense. (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/ipl-shambles-a-result-of-putting-greed-above-common-sense-20210505-p57p30.html)
This is what hubris looks like.

Spells it out in fairly plain terms. Fundamentally, India is a overpopulated country that socially and politically values human life very very lowly, and the lives of foreigners even less so!

The author probably won't get much argument from myself or others that have travelled there.

As for Slater's claim he had Federal Permission to work in the IPL, true, but the Feds didn't send him there and giving him permission to pursue his employment doesn't obfuscate his own responsibility in that decision chain! Claiming the Federal Government is now neglecting him is a big stretch, I dare say they actually probably warned him not to go if it can at all be avoided!

btw., As I understand it, for the Internationals, the IPL is no play no pay! The only players involved with guaranteed payments are BCCI contracted players.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 05, 2021, 04:30:40 PM
Nice article;

IPL shambles a result of putting greed above common sense. (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/ipl-shambles-a-result-of-putting-greed-above-common-sense-20210505-p57p30.html)
This is what hubris looks like.

Spells it out in fairly plain terms. Fundamentally, India is a overpopulated country that socially and politically values human life very very lowly, and the lives of foreigners even less so!

The author probably won't get much argument from myself or others that have travelled there.

As for Slater's claim he had Federal Permission to work in the IPL, true, but the Feds didn't send him there and giving him permission to pursue his employment doesn't obfuscate his own responsibility in that decision chain! Claiming the Federal Government is now neglecting him is a big stretch, I dare say they actually probably warned him not to go if it can at all be avoided!

btw., As I understand it, for the Internationals, the IPL is no play no pay! The only players involved with guaranteed payments are BCCI contracted players.
I watched the nine late news last night and they had a insight into the plight of the Indian public Hospital system and confronting stuff it was to watch. A mother surrounded by her kids in a hospital bed with no staff in sight and them trying to perform untrained CPR on her. A Doctor then casually walks in and very matter of fact checks her pulse and says dont bother anymore she is dead.
The Hospital was just jam packed with similar cases, no proper PPE gear, no oxygen and hardly any staff which given the circumstances isnt hard to fathom given the risks to their health.
The Directors of the hospital were at a clinic next door getting their CoVid jab and denying their was an issue, one Doctor was told what to say by a Director and just gave a heap of spin as a response.
Life is cheap in India but CoVid has made it a lot cheaper and its every man and women for themselves if you are the rank and file working class....
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: DJC on May 05, 2021, 11:49:03 PM
I watched the nine late news last night and they had a insight into the plight of the Indian public Hospital system and confronting stuff it was to watch. A mother surrounded by her kids in a hospital bed with no staff in sight and them trying to perform untrained CPR on her. A Doctor then casually walks in and very matter of fact checks her pulse and says dont bother anymore she is dead.
The Hospital was just jam packed with similar cases, no proper PPE gear, no oxygen and hardly any staff which given the circumstances isnt hard to fathom given the risks to their health.
The Directors of the hospital were at a clinic next door getting their CoVid jab and denying their was an issue, one Doctor was told what to say by a Director and just gave a heap of spin as a response.
Life is cheap in India but CoVid has made it a lot cheaper and its every man and women for themselves if you are the rank and file working class....

It's challenging vision EB.

I listened to a conversation on the wireless today where folk were arguing that such vision shouldn't be put to air because it shows India in a poor light.  What a crock of sh1t!

Yes, India is a developing nation but successive governments have spent billions on armaments and nuclear weapons development.  It doesn't help that their neighbours also possess nuclear weapons but their neglect of the health system and the majority of the population is criminal.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on May 19, 2021, 08:21:09 AM
Bancroft's mixed messaging is a best odd at worst malicious. Not sure why, perhaps his next MCC contract depends on knifing the backs he thought he was once a part of!

Was Bancroft ever a obvious choice for test selection, we know he had a power of runs, but I can't say he ever looked comfortable as a potential test batsmen even at Shield level. Is the current situation what you get when guys get rewarded test spots without the obvious skills to retain it, and then feel spurned when they are discarded?

Would Smith returning as captain make this situation better or worse?
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on May 19, 2021, 08:26:26 AM
Bancroft is a naive kid who was chucked under the bus by the NSW cricket mafia. I don't think there was anything in what he said.  Any doubts as to who runs Aussie cricket and sets the cculture....not.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on May 19, 2021, 10:17:45 AM
Bancroft is a naive kid who was chucked under the bus by the NSW cricket mafia. I don't think there was anything in what he said.  Any doubts as to who runs Aussie cricket and sets the cculture....not.
Fwiw, I think in this case NSW Cricket and the MCC are one in the same.

( Note; To prevent confusion to some readers, in this context MCC is the Marylebone Cricket Club (Lords), not Melbourne. For years NSW Cricket and the MCC have monopolised placements in County Cricket, and used that leverage to shift the best of Australian young talent into the NSW Cricket system pretty much against their will. If you are a talented kid playing cricket around Australia and yet to make your name, either you're in to NSW or you're out of County Cricket without some exceptional efforts! )
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: raven on May 20, 2021, 11:31:38 AM
Yar... when you get your baggy green, you also get your nsw blue cap.... or is that vice versa?  >:D
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on May 21, 2021, 07:58:55 AM
Vice versa.

Australian cricket is so much stronger when other states have players in the test side,  because you have to be an absolutely outstanding player to push a NSW incumbent out.   Leave NSW,  or grind away for years in minor leagues,  perfecting your game.  I reckon Neser will be the next one.  
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 21, 2021, 09:16:23 AM
Going to be interesting if they stick fat with Starc in the ashes.
Copped a real pounding vs the Indian second eleven out here with no name tailenders like Thakur and Sundar carting him around the park last time he was in action.
IMHO they will stick with him vs the Poms and go the full on pace assault.
If Pattinson is fit he might take his place but I don't see Neser getting a game. I think the tracks will be suited to tall quicks who bang it in and they won't be giving the English anything that seams/swings that will suit their attack. Maybe the Brisbane test would be some chance for Neser to play if he was really firing in Shield cricket..
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on May 21, 2021, 01:01:08 PM
Starc is a real issue, and selectors need to man up and drop him until he starts taking wickets consistently again.   I'm not an insider but wondering if he's burnt out or something.

His pace is down,  he hasn't moved a ball since sandpapergate, the jaffas are increasingly infrequent and his batting has declined. His shield season - either side of the tests - was putrid.  Blind Freddy could see he shouldn't have played in Brisbane.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 04, 2021, 12:01:47 AM
Watching England vs South Africa B.. I mean New Zealand. Ex saffie Devon Conway with an even 200 at Lords in his debut test.
Saffers really have provided NZ and England with some players over recent years.
Like to see the ICC set a few more rules regarding qualifying periods for these import players as I have mentioned before.
South Africa would have had some very decent teams over the years given all the players they provide and really lose so many given the quota system that limits opportunities and big money from other countries that buy them a new life elsewhere.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 04, 2021, 08:22:10 AM
Marnus is a saffie EB
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 04, 2021, 08:24:37 AM
Marnus is a saffie EB
He was 10 when they moved, not because he was displaced by a quota!

What we see happening in Saffie cricket, is an accelerated form of what we are going to see across the board in society and industry.

Quotas are a form of standardisation, and standardisation leads to a new level of mediocrity, it is akin to making the fastest runners slower so the slower runners can compete / keep up! A gold star for everybody!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 04, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Marnus is a saffie EB
Prof, Marnus and Wessels are the ones I know of who played for Aus but NZ have four in the team at the minute and England have had a very decent return from their imports over the years. Do countries make up their own qualifying rules or is their a ICC rule to cover all... Conway was playing on a visa when he first represented NZ in short format stuff and didn't have citizenship is what I read some where.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 04, 2021, 12:49:43 PM
And Wessels spent years qualifying.

We're not exactly clean in this field,  but our neighbours across the ditch pimp themselves out in so many sports they'd struggle to field teams if the citizenship regs were actually enforced.  The poms are utterly shameless in this area,  FFS,  Stokes is a kiwi.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 24, 2021, 03:38:27 PM
Spent the last few nights watching the test cricket final from England and it was worth staying up for. The little battlers from New Zealand vs the cricket powerhouse from Asia in India and the little battlers have stitched the Indians up very nicely.
Pitch was a swing bowlers paradise and nobody does swing better than the Kiwis, cloudy rainy conditions and the Kiwis led by the Giant all rounder Jamison bowled the cocky Kholi and his mates out cheaply twice and led by Williamson and Taylor strode to victory with the bat in the end quite comfortably.
Kholi was pissed to the max but had to contain himself and be humble in defeat which took a bit of doing but he does want the format changed to a best of three. Indians went with the two spinning allrounders which hindered them on the pace friendly wicket and he was forced to over bowl his three quicks unlike Williamson who judged the conditions better and went with 4 quicks and the medium paced allrounder DeGrandholme so he always had fresher pace bowlers.
Very entertaining game and I was glad the Kiwis won even with a bit of help from their South African/Zimbabwe imports, cant have India winning everything.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on June 24, 2021, 04:43:20 PM
It's great for cricket.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 24, 2021, 06:52:54 PM
They'll just change the rules EB so India will play at home.  "Too much rain in England" or some other BS justification.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 24, 2021, 07:02:42 PM
They'll just change the rules EB so India will play at home.  "Too much rain in England" or some other BS justification.
Prof, there was the whinge that England has too much rain etc etc but 6 days made a result possible and England has proven
great for results in recent times given the bowler friendly conditions and there have been very few Draws.
I'm sure Kholi and crew will push for batting friendly Dubai as the neutral venue but I thought the Hampshire bowl was a great ground with atmosphere as well  as conditions that make it a great test for players and thats what Test Cricket is about.
I'm not handing India conditions that suit their spinners and negate every other team whose attack is pace based and who dont have the quality or depth India have with spinners.
Only concession I might make is a three test final series but still in England...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: Professer E on June 24, 2021, 07:23:04 PM
Damn straight brother.
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: LP on July 21, 2021, 03:17:43 PM
Starc the enigma up to his old tricks again, five wickets smash the Windies in the 1st ODI, let's see if that means he goes missing for the next 5 games before we make a call on way or the other!
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 06, 2021, 09:42:46 AM
Been watching the start of the England vs India Test series and I think the upcoming Ashes series will be a bit of let down.
The English wont have Archer(injured elbow and ruled out), probably wont have Stokes due to mental health problems and their
team is going to look very B Grade what ever they send out here and thats if they do come as the players are not happy with our Strict CoVid rules and partners/family probably wont be allowed to join them which in Stokes case wont help his issues.
They have some of their other best quicks in Wood injured and unable to play more than a few tests each series and Woakes also has been unvailable so their attack is going to be the old blokes in Anderson and Broad again with a few newbie kids like Robinson....both still bowling well but conditions in Aus wont be suiting Anderson in particular.
The English batting too is very Joe average with Joe Root the only decent batsman they have and I cant see them being competitive...
Title: Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Post by: capcom on August 06, 2021, 11:52:37 AM
Bread and circuses EB.