All ready for tomorrow. We know what we want!
Here is a Quote from Teagues Presser after Carlton get flogged by the Lions:
"I believe in this Group"
:)) :)) :))
Here is a Quote from Teagues Presser after Carlton get flogged by the Lions:
"I believe in this Group"
:)) :)) :))
you left out "I have not stopped believing" and "we won the inside 50s". He'll throw in a "Played our way" somewhere along the line :D :D
Gee another “honourable” loss we must be on the right track, I saw some passages of play that were encouraging.........blah blah blah blah no improvement time to tank for draft picks to waste
RIP CARLTON FOOTBALL CLUB
Gee another “honourable” loss we must be on the right track, I saw some passages of play that were encouraging.........blah blah blah blah no improvement time to tank for draft picks to waste
Almost worse that we produce such 5hit and continually just lose by a few goals. Feels like such as waste. If only we actually put in.
That 2nd qtr stunk after an excellent start. WTF was it.
Read somewhere that Harry is now leading the Coleman.
We just don't have skills and class to compete at this level.
We just don't have skills and class to compete at this level.
We dont have the brains either....Rich 33 possessions, what did we think was going to happen?
Headlines in the media: Lions down brave Blues.
Same old, same old.
Again, too many passengers... wasted opportunities in the 1st... and we shizened ourselves when challenged in the 2nd... brave come back in the 3rd... played the game out - same script as last year.
On the up side, there was very good intent from most - just too many not up to it / not senior level.
Headlines in the media: Lions down brave Blues.
Same old, same old.
Again, too many passengers... wasted opportunities in the 1st... and we shizened ourselves when challenged in the 2nd... brave come back in the 3rd... played the game out - same script as last year.
On the up side, there was very good intent from most - just too many not up to it / not senior level.
We just don't have skills and class to compete at this level.
Not sure that's right. We can compete, but just as quickly we switch off. 2nd qtr was described as sole less on SEN Another 5 goal run against for Teague and co. Add to that a 4 goal run in the last.
Our turnovers kill us. We turn the ball over in dangerous positions and give up easy goals on the counter. If we aren't the worst side in the comp for conceding goals from turnovers then we are top 2.
We need to continue to give games to young guys who have the basic football skill of hitting a target.
I want to be on record as saying Williams has mot impressed me one iota. For a player touted as being tough and skilful, Id hate to see what weak and poor disposal looks like from him.
More fancied teams than us lost by 97 points and 40 points. This was always going to be an honourable loss.
Exactly a replica of our round 17 game last year. Won 3 qtrs but lost due to a putrid 2nd qtr.
Not sure that's right. We can compete, but just as quickly we switch off. 2nd qtr was described as sole less on SEN Another 5 goal run against for Teague and co. Add to that a 4 goal run in the last.
Our turnovers kill us. We turn the ball over in dangerous positions and give up easy goals on the counter. If we aren't the worst side in the comp for conceding goals from turnovers then we are top 2.
We need to continue to give games to young guys who have the basic football skill of hitting a target.
I have never seen a chalk and cheese effort like the first and second qtr ever. At the ground, it was so obvious they were asleep at the wheel. Why why why!!!!!
Headlines in the media: Lions down brave Blues.
Same old, same old.
Again, too many passengers... wasted opportunities in the 1st... and we shizened ourselves when challenged in the 2nd... brave come back in the 3rd... played the game out - same script as last year.
On the up side, there was very good intent from most - just too many not up to it / not senior level.
Funny you should say same scipt...
My commentary in orange.
Now, I can tell you how the next week will go...
We'll turn up to play against the lions, go ok for most of it, have a down period where they kick away 2nd quarterand despite some good signs we will ultimately lose by 3 or 4 goals.....exactly 3 goalsand you know what, that is ok because they are a better side than us.
Further to that...
An older player will have a shocker. Take your pick, Casboult or Gibbons...
An out of form player will play their best game of the year. Docherty had 28 touches, 7 tackles and 624m gained
A young player will show promising signs and we'll pump him up prematurely. Cuningham in the 1st was very good.....then went missing.....then did well in the last
The coach will get chastised for some words. [watch this space]
Some people will be ready to burn their memberships. [watch this space]
The media will turn the heat up on the club....again. [watch this space]
Bookmark this and tell me how I did. ;)
Why was Rich allowed to get 33 possessions? Surely Teague had a plan and the assigned player couldn't execute? If not SACK THE MUPPET and ALL the DUMBF**K "support staff" for being clueless.
I have never seen a chalk and cheese effort like the first and second qtr ever. At the ground, it was so obvious they were asleep at the wheel. Why why why!!!!!
Short memory G2C
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2020/031020200731.html#prog
or by the same logic, but different quarters...
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2020/031120200613.html#prog
Not sure that's right. We can compete, but just as quickly we switch off. 2nd qtr was described as sole less on SEN Another 5 goal run against for Teague and co. Add to that a 4 goal run in the last.
Our turnovers kill us. We turn the ball over in dangerous positions and give up easy goals on the counter. If we aren't the worst side in the comp for conceding goals from turnovers then we are top 2.
We need to continue to give games to young guys who have the basic football skill of hitting a target.
Skills include converting and creating opportunities when you are on top...You have seen plenty of football, how many of us knew after the 1st quarter we were in trouble?. We had all the play and couldnt put enough score on the board, they were always going to have their run with the ball as all teams do and they punished us in the 2nd, game over, bit of a rally in the 3rd but once they steadied that was the game.
Intent was good in the first but we softened up in the second, stopped manning up and they kicked easy goals.....its all Walsh and Cripps onball and nothing else. They had 5 mids plus Rich in their best players, we spent all our gas and apart from Walsh who goes all day its spasmodic returns from the other mids
Williams was ordinary and like last week started well but faded and only had 20 possies again, thats not going to win games for us vs quality like Brisbane have onball...
Not sure that's right. We can compete, but just as quickly we switch off. 2nd qtr was described as sole less on SEN Another 5 goal run against for Teague and co. Add to that a 4 goal run in the last.
Our turnovers kill us. We turn the ball over in dangerous positions and give up easy goals on the counter. If we aren't the worst side in the comp for conceding goals from turnovers then we are top 2.
We need to continue to give games to young guys who have the basic football skill of hitting a target.
To clarify, we cannot compete effectively at this level due to our lack of the required levels of skill, nous or class. We can certainly look busy at times running round like headless chooks.
More fancied teams than us lost by 97 points and 40 points. This was always going to be an honourable loss.
Honourable losses usually pile up and end up in dishonorable executions of coaches ...
Short memory G2C
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2020/031020200731.html#prog
or by the same logic, but different quarters...
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2020/031120200613.html#prog
I, me, moi, io, have never seen, dont care what stats say.
Honourable losses usually pile up and end up in dishonorable executions of coaches ...
games like that are coach killers no matter who the oppo is
I, me, moi, io, have never seen, dont care what stats say.
Its not stats, its goals and scoreboard dominance. If you click the links you'll see it and it might jog your memory
To clarify, we cannot compete effectively at this level due to our lack of the required levels of skill, nous or class. We can certainly look busy at times running round like headless chooks.
That's fair
To clarify, we cannot compete effectively at this level due to our lack of the required levels of skill, nous or class. We can certainly look busy at times running round like headless chooks.
Apart from looking slow or our players being stationary too often, our running patters and structures look terrible for the most part compared to oppo like Brisbane, Port, etc. Especially entry in the fwd line, gee H has to bust a gut and get mauled to win it.
We are irrelevant. Clubs don't fear playing us. We are predictable and physically easy to compete with. I was in the camp that believed we were on the way up. I was wrong.
We're half way through a 20 year rebuild. Have patience.
Who the hell was on Rich? Did Teague do anything?
And that's why his card is marked. No forward planning.
What was the go with the turf? Players from both sides couldn't keep their feet.
Went to the game, gee our skill errors just kill our momentum. Just basic stuff that should be easy to execute. So I think what happens is they have to bust their guts to fix these errors and they just run out of steam. Clean precise kicking and hand balling - how many times did I see a terrible handball at the feet, just so frustrating. And before anyone says that because pressure is applied, that’s not true. They r there own worst enemies.
What was the go with the turf? Players from both sides couldn't keep their feet.
Extremely frustrating watching that
We’ve surely seen enough to know that all of the below are simply not up to it against top opposition
Newnes
Plowman
Murphy
Betts
Casboult
And, when you add to that list a whole host of players that aren’t doing enough (Cripps, McGovern, Williams, Docherty etc).., it’s hard not to feel sorry for Teague
Also consider we’ve played near full lists of Collingwood, Port, Bris and Rich
Time to invest in Dow, Honey and co and put the blokes above out to pasture
Another game lost because of midfield dominance in one 20 min burst. The first half of the second quarter where we were absolutely slaughtered around the ball and they pilled on 5 goals. Game over.
All the better teams have min of 5-6 genuine midfielders that run hard and have good foot skills. We only have Walsh, Williams and today Cunningham who I thought did well in his role today. He has the breakaway speed we desperately need. Cripps is still a great inside mid but he looks spent come late in every quarter and is a liability on the outside and defensively. Walsh on the other hand is a star that could be AA in his 3rd year.
We lack run and spread especially late in games and are unable to pull back any sort of deficient - if we fall more then a few goals we look gone.
I would play Cunningham every week in the guts. He has the smarts skills and leg speed.
I no longer have the same faith in Kennedy, Dow, Setterfield or LOB making it.
While we have other holes on the list, the midfield is the one that costs us the most come game day.
We will remain a bottom 4 team until we get 2-3 genuine mids that can run and spread and use the ball.
I’ve said this since year 3 of the rebuild. It’s as simple as that.
Also goal of the year should be one of the very rare set shot right in front of goal 30m out! So tired of seeing miracle Goals but gimmes right in front are impossible to come by.
Also goal of the year should be one of the very rare set shot right in front of goal 30m out! So tired of seeing miracle Goals but gimmes right in front are impossible to come by.
I liked Stockers goal... Shame it was a point for Brisbane..
I liked Stockers goal... Shame it was a point for Brisbane..
That was a new one wasn’t it!
Blah blah blah.
We lost by 18 points. Its roughly what I expected. A bit of good mixed with some bad, some passengers etc.
Next week vs essendon is the game that counts. Lose that one and thats when the heat will really come on Teague.
Yet to see why we paid 800 K for five years for Williams.
Yet to see why we paid 800 K for five years for Williams.
What do you think Cripps is worth on 2020/2021 form?
Yet to see why we paid 800 K for five years for Williams.
He seems to start ok but then fade out and also seems capped around that 20 possession mark which isnt enough.
Is he fit? or is the transition from half back to midfield a bit hard endurance wise.
He needs to lift or the club will cop plenty as more scribes analyse the list..
What do you think Cripps is worth on 2020/2021 form?
750K a year for three years.....but we know that wont happen
We just don't have skills and class to compete at this level.
Says it all, really.
Yet to see why we paid 800 K for five years for Williams.
Agree but I think he will get better as the year goes on. Thing is he made his name as a running back but we paid for the ‘hope he could be one a a grade mid’ cause he shown it in one final.
Was always risky to pay for a premium for something unproven but as the cupboard is bare in that area we were forced to make a desperate play.
Yet to see why we paid 800 K for five years for Williams.
I am hopeful that Z.Williams improves as he has had a couple of niggles pre-season (calf) and recently an ankle. But yes we are yet to see 800k worth in action
What do you think Cripps is worth on 2020/2021 form?
I’ll take Freo’s 1st a top 5 pick (2021 strong draft for quality midfielders) and very soild B youngish player that can give us immediate impact.
Free cap space too, so chase another quality Free Agent Midfielder.
I am hopwful that Z.Williams improves as he has had a couple of niggles pre-season (calf) and recently an ankle. But yes we are yet to see 800k worth in action
Agree underwhelming, however first year after recruitment is usual like that all three 2020 additions will be fine next year.
Next year is too late. Liddle said "the time for development is over". Something is going to give.
More fancied teams than us lost by 97 points and 40 points.
Yes, but they don't do it week in, week out, month in month out, year in, year out.
5 years ago we and Brisbane were bottom three. Five years later they're top three (have been for two years) and we're still bottom three. And people tell me to be patient!?! Enough!
Yes, but they don't do it week in, week out, month in month out, year in, year out.
decade in decade out
5 years ago we and Brisbane were bottom three. Five years later they're top three (have been for two years) and we're still bottom three. And people tell me to be patient!?! Enough!
Brisbane were rubbish further back than we were.
They self destructed earlier and started picking up youngsters earlier with the end result of what we see today.
We both might have been bottom 3 but they still have a player from the Chris yarran draft in their team and we don't.
5 years ago we and Brisbane were bottom three. Five years later they're top three (have been for two years) and we're still bottom three. And people tell me to be patient!?! Enough!
Fair Point...
Brisbane were rubbish further back than we were.
They self destructed earlier and started picking up youngsters earlier with the end result of what we see today.
We both might have been bottom 3 but they still have a player from the Chris yarran draft in their team and we don't.
One we fail to plan for every year who of late has been a real nuisance...
When is DeKoning back?
Just watched reply of 2nd quarter and my gosh Pittonet got creamed - their mids received it on a platter every single time centre bounce and it lead to their first 4 goals of the quarter. I like pit as he is a hard worker who gives his all but he was totally dominated.
Skills include converting and creating opportunities when you are on top...You have seen plenty of football, how many of us knew after the 1st quarter we were in trouble?. We had all the play and couldnt put enough score on the board, they were always going to have their run with the ball as all teams do and they punished us in the 2nd, game over, bit of a rally in the 3rd but once they steadied that was the game.
Intent was good in the first but we softened up in the second, stopped manning up and they kicked easy goals.....its all Walsh and Cripps onball and nothing else. They had 5 mids plus Rich in their best players, we spent all our gas and apart from Walsh who goes all day its spasmodic returns from the other mids
Williams was ordinary and like last week started well but faded and only had 20 possies again, thats not going to win games for us vs quality like Brisbane have onball...
Agree. Think of their forward line players when kicking for goal. i can remember four goals kicked with set shots from about the fifty metre line. Their forwards had the confidence in their kicking ability to take the shot and bang it through the goals.
Except for Walsh's goal on the run I can't think of any Carlton forward kicking a goal from that distance.
What I did see was the usual hesitancy near the fifty metre line, plenty of attempts to handball which put the receiver in trouble, many kicks of about thirty metres or less to forwards already covered, kicking in error to the opposition backs, kicking over the heads of our forwards - you know, attempt anything rather than take the responsibility of kicking a goal. So we fall into the same pattern with the usual skill errors we see every week made by players who are just not up to standard.
Yarran, perceived to be the best player in the draft, is in jail. The player we could have drafted, but regarded as too vanilla, gets three brownlow votes against us every time. For more than a decade now.
Yes, but they don't do it week in, week out, month in month out, year in, year out.
The Carlton Is Slow, but The Pauly is Patient.
Sorry lads and lasses, but I don't see the doom and gloom. Sometimes, as the Dees have showed, all it takes is some tweaking and adjustments. The numbers make it clear that we're in the ballpark.
I asked Daniel Hoyne what the stats say our biggest problem is, and he said, "Getting hurt from ball use." Our biggest problem is turnovers and decision making. When (and if) we get that sorted, we'll be a good team.
Now, back to our regular scheduled broadcasting.....................
Yarran, perceived to be the best player in the draft, is in jail. The player we could have drafted, but regarded as too vanilla, gets three brownlow votes against us every time. For more than a decade now.
Walsh is boring Vanilla, Yarran was a flair player with greater talent but when you are a battling club with recruiting problems loading up on some boring Vanilla can be the safe way to go as Walsh has shown.
The lack of accountability with Rich is mind boggling .....you look at the Lions and their are five players who stand out as threats and they are Neale, McCluggage , Zorko, Cameron and Rich. You dont need to be a a coach or assistant with coaching certifications to figure it out especially when Rich has burnt us several times...
We just don't have skills and class to compete at this level.
Indeed. Until we manage to improve our kicking, our intensity all over the field and our decision making, we are going to also-rans. We gifted the Lions the game with our poor disposal, although the Umpires certainly had their share of Brisbane goals to their credit. Some truly appalling decisions that cost goals.
The Carlton Is Slow, but The Pauly is Patient.
Sorry lads and lasses, but I don't see the doom and gloom. Sometimes, as the Dees have showed, all it takes is some tweaking and adjustments. The numbers make it clear that we're in the ballpark.
I asked Daniel Hoyne what the stats say our biggest problem is, and he said, "Getting hurt from ball use." Ou biggest problem is turnovers and decision making. When (and if) we get that sorted, we'll be a good team.
Now, back to our regular scheduled broadcasting.....................
Regular broadcasting might get stopped for a newsflash...coach sacked again
Walsh is boring Vanilla, Yarran was a flair player with greater talent but when you are a battling club with recruiting problems loading up on some boring Vanilla can be the safe way to go as Walsh has shown.
The lack of accountability with Rich is mind boggling .....you look at the Lions and their are five players who stand out as threats and they are Neale, McCluggage , Zorko, Cameron and Rich. You dont need to be a a coach or assistant with coaching certifications to figure it out especially when Rich has burnt us several times...
Fogarty went to rich early.
I am afraid that it might be the time to change coaches. I do not like being out-coached week in, week out.
[1] We do not tag out the opposition's best players often enough.
It is hard enough in the midfield, where the ruck dominance often makes a huge difference. But, knowing that Rich sets up most of their attacking moves, we should have someone on him. Rich doesn't like it hard and never has.
Granted that Rich had a lot of disposals running out from the goal square, which is hard to stop, but around the ground he ran around on his own just too often. The idea is to kick to his direct opponent, so he has to really defend.
Melbourne showed tonight that Dustin Martin is human. Hibberd tagged him out of the game before he went off with concussion. Why can't we do that?
[2] Our disposal is terrible, yet what have the coaches done to improve it? It is hard to tell, but with our disposal NOT improving, the question looks extremely relevant.
[3] The attack on the ball that is now typical of Melbourne, Richmond and Port Adelaide is not shown by Carlton players. This is a coach thing. Until we work like those three teams do, we will not improve enough.
[4] Opposition teams do not fear us physically or otherwise. That is a coach thing, but it is also a recruiting thing. We do not seem to be making the right recruiting decisions. We want to have hard, physical players that put manic pressure on the opposition. That doesn't happen.
Fogarty went to rich early.
Fogarty is a good tackler but IMHO is needed to perform more attacking roles, would have thought Curnow or Cottrell given the importance of Rich.
Indeed. Until we manage to improve our kicking, our intensity all over the field and our decision making, we are going to also-rans. We gifted the Lions the game with our poor disposal, although the Umpires certainly had their share of Brisbane goals to their credit. Some truly appalling decisions that cost goals.
And I'll tell you what, if we didn't have Jones, they would have kicked a lot more. Being at the ground and watching him get to contests to effect a spoil or intercept the ball, its elite. He may get caught out sometimes when he leaves his man to get to another contest but overall, solid. I can see why Weiters said the after his B&F "this belongs to you also" referring to Jones.
I think the thing that frustrates a few of us is not so much the skill errors as the intensity and pressure.
It was good in the first quarter.
It was exactly what was expected after the criticism aimed at the club through the week.
In the second quarter Brisbane matched and exceeded that pressure and it was pretty much the game done and dusted
I watched two Carlton sides today.
One had very little pressure applied to it and the result was a 12 goal first quarter.
The skills displayed were slick.
Passes hit their marks and good average players looked a million dollars.
In both games the pressure came from the opposition in the second quarter and we struggled with runs of goals against us.
Point is...if you come with intensity and effort you can make the opposition look like unskilled fumblers.
We often see the trick shots at training.
Attend training and the drills will quickly show you that our players don't lack basic skills
No way can that be duplicated under the pressure of 'real' match conditions.
But the side that comes with the greatest intensity will always look more skilled as they dominate the other team.
Fogarty is a good tackler but IMHO is needed to perform more attacking roles, would have thought Curnow or Cottrell given the importance of Rich.
This may sound strange and I don't know if I can articulations this properly but his first few games were unbelievable I thought. He has since tapered off the last few games, it's as if he has been brought down to the Carlton level rather than playing his natural style of game. The first few games he was creating goals, run down tackling, its since waned. We have done an excellent job in knocking the Carlton crap into him (the saying used to be opposite once upon a time, when we recruited someone we would say "once we knock the Geelong crap out of him he'll be fine").
And I'll tell you what, if we didn't have Jones, they would have kicked a lot more. Being at the ground and watching him get to contests to effect a spoil or intercept the ball, its elite. He may get caught out sometimes when he leaves his man to get to another contest but overall, solid. I can see why Weiters said the after his B&F "this belongs to you also" referring to Jones.
I thought he got caught out a few times, the long Lyons kick to Hipwood who fecked up the pass but got a goal by accident wasnt great, Jones was nowhere near him. But being at the ground does give you a different perspective and you dont see the work off the ball either so I will cut Jones some slack given your close up observations.
With Williams not having the impact in the middle at the moment, I'd be tempted to play him across half back. His kicking has been very ordinary so far, just not giving his team advantage, Either that or have him tag a good but not super-quick midfielder. I think he could do that well and get some ball while he is at it.
If we had another guy who be a ruckman, I would drop Levi. he hasn't had a good ear and has barely taken a mark. However, if an opposing team had 3 tall forwards, I would use Levi in that role. His ability to read to ball in the air in defence has been excellent.
SPS I'd play on a wing instead of Cottrell. He played some very good patches today, but isn't fast enough, and his disposal this year has been ordinary. Give him a chance to kick a goal.
Gibbo had a shocker. he didn't attack the ball like he normally does and he was ineffective wherever he played. However, he has some runs on the board and will probably survive. Unfortunately his lack of pace was really obvious out there tonight.
Jack Newnes also had one of his worst game for us. he made a lot more mistakes than he normally does and found the pace hard yakka. Again, he has a few runs on the board, which might save him. But a quicker player is a must in the longer term. Honey? I like the guy, but he goes missing too often.
Cunners had a very patchy game, where he was very good in patches and missing in others. he may be worth persevering with in the centre square, as he did some really nice things there.
People continue to bag Murphy, but he had a good game tonight. he isn't going to get 30+ possessions in a forward pocket, so we have to change out perception of him in that regard. He was a good option tonight who managed some good goals. Realize that he is what he is now, and 30+ possessions is not likely to happen.
Fog had a shocker. he had very little impact on the game and was knocked off the ball too easily.
I think the thing that frustrates a few of us is not so much the skill errors as the intensity and pressure.
It was good in the first quarter.
It was exactly what was expected after the criticism aimed at the club through the week.
In the second quarter Brisbane matched and exceeded that pressure and it was pretty much the game done and dusted
I watched two Carlton sides today.
One had very little pressure applied to it and the result was a 12 goal first quarter.
The skills displayed were slick.
Passes hit their marks and good average players looked a million dollars.
In both games the pressure came from the opposition in the second quarter and we struggled with runs of goals against us.
Point is...if you come with intensity and effort you can make the opposition look like unskilled fumblers.
We often see the trick shots at training.
Attend training and the drills will quickly show you that our players don't lack basic skills
No way can that be duplicated under the pressure of 'real' match conditions.
But the side that comes with the greatest intensity will always look more skilled as they dominate the other team.
Again, at the ground (I was at the Coventry end level 2 in a pocket), you can see the whole ground it was so notable the difference in work rate of the two teams when they didn't have the ball. When they didn't have the ball, they would close in hard, limit space and inevitably either tackle our bloke or pressure him into an error. When we didn't have the ball, we would approach with caution, sit off a bit and the Brisbane bloke had all the time in the world to sum up the best option and deliver. The hunger to win it back at all costs by Brisbane was very noticeable.
And can Kruze please work with the rucks and tell them to please hit it to our advantage, or punch it on the direction we are kicking if our on ballers are hot/manned up.
I thought he got caught out a few times, the long Lyons kick to Hipwood who fecked up the pass but got a goal by accident wasnt great, Jones was nowhere near him. But being at the ground does give you a different perspective and you dont see the work off the ball either so I will cut Jones some slack given your close up observations.
Jones left him to try and help out up the ground and the other defenders didn't cover. No it didn't look good, sometimes you just have to not be drawn to the contest and cover your man. The defenders were arguing alot during that 2nd qtr. Overall I still think he was excellent.
Zach Tuohy left Carlton at the end of 2016. It's been that long since we've had a player who could be relied upon to kick a goal accurately from 50 metres.
Whenever he did I can remember the instant lift in the morale of the players and of course the supporters, especially at Marvel Stadium.
With Williams not having the impact in the middle at the moment, I'd be tempted to play him across half back. His kicking has been very ordinary so far, just not giving his team advantage, Either that or have him tag a good but not super-quick midfielder. I think he could do that well and get some ball while he is at it.
If we had another guy who be a ruckman, I would drop Levi. he hasn't had a good ear and has barely taken a mark. However, if an opposing team had 3 tall forwards, I would use Levi in that role. His ability to read to ball in the air in defence has been excellent.
SPS I'd play on a wing instead of Cottrell. He played some very good patches today, but isn't fast enough, and his disposal this year has been ordinary. Give him a chance to kick a goal.
Gibbo had a shocker. he didn't attack the ball like he normally does and he was ineffective wherever he played. However, he has some runs on the board and will probably survive. Unfortunately his lack of pace was really obvious out there tonight.
Jack Newnes also had one of his worst game for us. he made a lot more mistakes than he normally does and found the pace hard yakka. Again, he has a few runs on the board, which might save him. But a quicker player is a must in the longer term. Honey? I like the guy, but he goes missing too often.
Cunners had a very patchy game, where he was very good in patches and missing in others. he may be worth persevering with in the centre square, as he did some really nice things there.
People continue to bag Murphy, but he had a good game tonight. he isn't going to get 30+ possessions in a forward pocket, so we have to change out perception of him in that regard. He was a good option tonight who managed some good goals. Realize that he is what he is now, and 30+ possessions is not likely to happen.
Fog had a shocker. he had very little impact on the game and was knocked off the ball too easily.
Gibbons got manned by Starcevich from what I saw who is a strongly built kid and Gibbo couldnt shake him all night, the size issue
is a problem when you play a few smalls, as you say Fogarty was knocked off the ball easily and I even thought Saad had trouble getting away from the Lions tacklers.
I think Newnes went to Cameron at one stage and I wasnt sure where he actually played most during the game but I didnt see much of him.
Williams at half back might be a good idea just to get him firing and more ball...
Betts kicked 0.4, and 2 of those he would normally kick in his sleep. Add to that Stocker's own goal (behind) and there's 13 points wiped off the deficit right there. For a team with apparently low work rate and at times terrible skills against a top 4 contender..................
Betts kicked 0.4, and 2 of those he would normally kick in his sleep. Add to that Stocker's own goal (behind) and there's 13 points wiped off the deficit right there. For a team with apparently low work rate and at times terrible skills against a top 4 contender..................
One of the problems with looking at 'what might have beens' though is that you can't look at in the isolation of only our team.
You have to look at the other sides near misses and 'stuff ups' as well.
You then also have to factor the change to the game that might have occurred if the ball went back to the centre rather than being kicked out.
It s a Butterfly effect.
And importantly if a side is pressed by a team coming at them, rather than having a comfortable margin, do they lift their game to meet, and see off,that challenge.
Port last week seemed to do only as much as they had to for us to be kept at bay.
One of the problems with looking at 'what might have beens' though is that you can't look at in the isolation of only our team.
You have to look at the other sides near misses and 'stuff ups' as well.
You then also have to factor the change to the game that might have occurred if the ball went back to the centre rather than being kicked out.
It s a Butterfly effect.
And importantly if a side is pressed by a team coming at them, rather than having a comfortable margin, do they lift their game to meet, and see off,that challenge.
Port last week seemed to do only as much as they had to for us to be kept at bay.
Whether Brisbane respond positively or negatively is something no one can answer. Perhaps they go into their shell instead ? We won the centre clearances, so I'm not sure Brisbane would have an advantage in that space. The what ifs I posed above are regulation stuff, not wild scenarios - 9 times out of 10 Betts would kick those, and 9 times out of 10 Stocker would not skew the kick so badly.
I'm still of the opinion that we are not as far off as some people think.
Whether Brisbane respond positively or negatively is something no one can answer. Perhaps they go into their shell instead ? We won the centre clearances, so I'm not sure Brisbane would have an advantage in that space. The what ifs I posed above are regulation stuff, not wild scenarios - 9 times out of 10 Betts would kick those, and 9 times out of 10 Stocker would not skew the kick so badly.
I'm still of the opinion that we are not as far off as some people think.
I'm in the same boat. Only problem is it's been like this for longer than we hoped. We're not that far off but the good teams are still too good for us when they have a crack. Injuries to key players are still hurting us. Easy misses are still hurting us. 20 minute lapses of concentration are still hurting us. We're not quite there yet.
Whether Brisbane respond positively or negatively is something no one can answer. Perhaps they go into their shell instead ? We won the centre clearances, so I'm not sure Brisbane would have an advantage in that space. The what ifs I posed above are regulation stuff, not wild scenarios - 9 times out of 10 Betts would kick those, and 9 times out of 10 Stocker would not skew the kick so badly.
I'm still of the opinion that we are not as far off as some people think.
Dont care as much about the misses as the qtr long MIAs. How many 5 unanswered goal turn arounds is that now?
Whether Brisbane respond positively or negatively is something no one can answer. Perhaps they go into their shell instead ? We won the centre clearances, so I'm not sure Brisbane would have an advantage in that space. The what ifs I posed above are regulation stuff, not wild scenarios - 9 times out of 10 Betts would kick those, and 9 times out of 10 Stocker would not skew the kick so badly.
I'm still of the opinion that we are not as far off as some people think.
Old Betts might have, but he's been having trouble hitting the scoreboard, so no guarantees.
And you still have to factor in Brisbane's 'what might have beens' too.
If we looked at the game again we'd probably find three or four of those.
But you may be right on where we stand...I'm actually a bit surprised at some of the level of early angst in regards to this match which, while justified in some cases, seems to have gone up a level again this week.
Brisbane flexed their muscles in the 2nd and that was all that's required for us. We were never really in the game after quarter time despite what the scores suggested.
I'm in the same boat. Only problem is it's been like this for longer than we hoped. We're not that far off but the good teams are still too good for us when they have a crack. Injuries to key players are still hurting us. Easy misses are still hurting us. 20 minute lapses of concentration are still hurting us. We're not quite there yet.
I agree with all that.
Dont care as much about the misses as the qtr long MIAs. How many 5 unanswered goal turn arounds is that now?
I don't know. I'm not keeping track. It's a lot, no doubt about that.
We sit at 2-4, having played 3 teams that should easily finish top 6. All the losses are around 3-4 goals. The 3-4 goal losses could become habitual. That's a problem. I'm not suggesting we simply put our feet up and the improvement will just happen. It may never happen. But as it stands, we're not far off IMO. There's nothing that suggests we need to do anything stupid.
Bob Murphy slammed our second quarter as
selfish and lacking soul.
The lack of urgency to defend and the lack of appetite to contest (was alarming),” he said.
Same old same old, our blokes won't man up and refuse to contest like their life depends on it IMHO. We had the Lions where we wanted them with Gardiner out of the game and Neale on one leg but still struggled.
If Walsh gets injured we will be struggling to win another game such is our reliance on him to wallpaper the cracks in our midfield...
I think the thing that frustrates a few of us is not so much the skill errors as the intensity and pressure.
It was good in the first quarter.
It was exactly what was expected after the criticism aimed at the club through the week.
In the second quarter Brisbane matched and exceeded that pressure and it was pretty much the game done and dusted
I watched two Carlton sides today.
One had very little pressure applied to it and the result was a 12 goal first quarter.
The skills displayed were slick.
Passes hit their marks and good average players looked a million dollars.
In both games the pressure came from the opposition in the second quarter and we struggled with runs of goals against us.
Point is...if you come with intensity and effort you can make the opposition look like unskilled fumblers.
We often see the trick shots at training.
Attend training and the drills will quickly show you that our players don't lack basic skills
No way can that be duplicated under the pressure of 'real' match conditions.
But the side that comes with the greatest intensity will always look more skilled as they dominate the other team.
I guess, for me anyway, the truly skilled players can execute under pressure. Any player that couldn't at least do that under no pressure or at training would not make it to an AFL club?
I guess, for me anyway, the truly skilled players can execute under pressure. Any player that couldn't at least do that under no pressure or at training would not make it to an AFL club?
Old Betts might have, but he's been having trouble hitting the scoreboard, so no guarantees.
And you still have to factor in Brisbane's 'what might have beens' too.
If we looked at the game again we'd probably find three or four of those.
But you may be right on where we stand...I'm actually a bit surprised at some of the level of early angst in regards to this match which, while justified in some cases, seems to have gone up a level again this week.
The angst is probably due to the repetition in our losses.. 5 goal bursts from the opposition, same opposition players burning us ie Rich and poor defensive and contesting in those vital minutes. What has really changed or improved from the last season or two?.. Some supporters now want to cling onto honourable losses for comfort but can't confront reality...thats bottom team thinking.
The angst is probably due to the repetition in our losses.. 5 goal bursts from the opposition, same opposition players burning us ie Rich and poor defensive and contesting in those vital minutes. What has really changed or improved from the last season or two?.. Some supporters now want to cling onto honourable losses for comfort but can't confront reality...thats bottom team thinking.
My ability to both confront and deal with reality is quite sound. I'm simply trying to take a holistic view. Our draw has been one of the toughest over the first 6 rounds. I never thought we would play finals this year, irrespective of what Cain "fast Eddy" Liddle wants us to believe. Apart from arguably the Pies game, the results are all pretty much as expected.
Bob Murphy slammed our second quarter as
selfish and lacking soul.
The lack of urgency to defend and the lack of appetite to contest (was alarming),” he said.
Same old same old, our blokes won't man up and refuse to contest like their life depends on it IMHO. We had the Lions where we wanted them with Gardiner out of the game and Neale on one leg but still struggled.
If Walsh gets injured we will be struggling to win another game such is our reliance on him to wallpaper the cracks in our midfield...
Thats exactly what I saw at the ground. As for Neale, when he came out after half time, he was warming up right in front of us and he could barely muster up a jog hobbling badly. When Williams took off down the wing in the last qtr, Neale ran him down and Williams had to side step to stop getting caught. Intent.
My ability to both confront and deal with reality is quite sound. I'm simply trying to take a holistic view. Our draw has been one of the toughest over the first 6 rounds. I never thought we would play finals this year, irrespective of what Cain "fast Eddy" Liddle wants us to believe. Apart from arguably the Pies game, the results are all pretty much as expected.
With all due respect Pauly, your (or my) holistic view or expectation on finals counts for very little, Cain "fast Eddy" Liddle's does however as decisions will be based on his not ours. Ill also add that your (or my) expectations are not mirrored by a very very (that's two verys) large portion of the Carlton faithful and the media.
My ability to both confront and deal with reality is quite sound. I'm simply trying to take a holistic view. Our draw has been one of the toughest over the first 6 rounds. I never thought we would play finals this year, irrespective of what Cain "fast Eddy" Liddle wants us to believe. Apart from arguably the Pies game, the results are all pretty much as expected.
I don't see progress, I look at Melbourne, Swans, Dogs etc and I see progress.
We look the same, nothing is changing, even the pattern of our losses.
How many wins would we have had with Melbourne's draw? ..
I don't see progress, I look at Melbourne, Swans, Dogs etc and I see progress.
We look the same, nothing is changing, even the pattern of our losses.
How many wins would we have had with Melbourne's draw? ..
Melb Goodwin since 2016
WB Beveridge since 2015
Syd Longmire sinde 2011
All have had some lows
With all due respect Pauly, your (or my) holistic view or expectation on finals counts for very little, Cain "fast Eddy" Liddle's does however as decisions will be based on his not ours. Ill also add that your (or my) expectations are not mirrored by a very very (that's two verys) large portion of the Carlton faithful and the media.
The media know we are a soft target, and an easy, well rating story. One reason why I like Daniel Hoyne and those of his ilk is that you can some kind of balanced, sensible analysis without the emotional dribble that you get from the Kane Cornes of this world.
Carlton presently has 80,000 members. I would never claim to be able to speak on their behalf. This forum has 900 members ? And of those 900, maybe 50 are what you would describe as regular posters. If you take all the other forums, social media etc., it's still a small % of the total membership.
My hope is that Liddle has learned something from Peggy O'Neal and Gale, and that his engineering a resurrection of a proper VFL side indicates that he understands the long game, and that he understands that more destabilising change will simply perpetuate the boom-bust cycle of the last 20 years. a cycle that has been way more bust than boom. We'll know soon enough what his priorities are and whether he has real coglioni.
The first 60 seconds of Fagan's post match presser are worth listening. Don't punish the current mob and heap unnecessary pressure on them for the sins of the past.
The angst is probably due to the repetition in our losses.. 5 goal bursts from the opposition, same opposition players burning us ie Rich and poor defensive and contesting in those vital minutes. What has really changed or improved from the last season or two?.. Some supporters now want to cling onto honourable losses for comfort but can't confront reality...thats bottom team thinking.
Only thing that's changed is competitiveness. Rather than the last of competitiveness, 100pt losses, 9% winning record in the last 50 games, we've only lost by over 5 goals twice and at 45% under Teague. By the far the 2nd best record of a coach this century. Stops there though. Other than that nothing has changed. We still don't want work hard enough, lack a win to win, and can't get motivated on a consistent basis. Bad culture hasn't budged. The results under Teague tells me the players are good enough to be competitive with anyone but don't want to do the hard work required to go from a 18-20 point loser to actually win. They seems happy just being competitive and collect the pay cheque. That changed can only be player driven.
We need to shift through the playing list, work out which players simply don't have the hunger to succeed, regardless of ability, and phase them out of the club. Keep the workers almost regardless of ability. I assume Murphy, Eddie and Levi will call it quits this year. Right now we recruit players, perfectly good attitudes, decent skills then the culture "Carltonises" them. That culture, drive, will to win, lack of real motivation is the difference between us being a mere competitor and a good side. Until that changes we go no-where. Look as any sport, soon as a competitor loses that hunger their performance falls away dramatically. Boxing is a good example. Same in my sport.
I don't see progress, I look at Melbourne, Swans, Dogs etc and I see progress.
We look the same, nothing is changing, even the pattern of our losses.
How many wins would we have had with Melbourne's draw? ..
I see consolidation of good habits, but I am worried about bad traits becoming entrenched.
None of those 3 clubs went for panicked, knee jerk solutions. Dogs won the flag then missed finals for 3 years straight. Dees finished 17th in 2019, then 9th last year. Progress is not linear, nor does it fit into a pre ordained time frame.
Only thing that's changed is competitiveness. Rather than the last of competitiveness, 100pt losses, 9% winning record in the last 50 games, we've only lost by over 5 goals twice and at 45% under Teague. By the far the 2nd best record of a coach this century. Stops there though. Other than that nothing has changed. We still don't want work hard enough, lack a win to win, and can't get motivated on a consistent basis. Bad culture hasn't budged. The results under Teague tells me the players are good enough to be competitive with anyone but don't want to do the hard work required to go from a 18-20 point loser to actually win. They seems happy just being competitive and collect the pay cheque. That changed can only be player driven.
We need to shift through the playing list, work out which players simply don't have the hunger to succeed, regardless of ability, and phase them out of the club. Keep the workers almost regardless of ability. I assume Murphy, Eddie and Levi will call it quits this year. Right now we recruit players, perfectly good attitudes, decent skills then the culture "Carltonises" them. That culture, drive, will to win, lack of real motivation is the difference between us being a mere competitor and a good side. Until that changes we go no-where. Look as any sport, soon as a competitor loses that hunger their performance falls away dramatically. Boxing is a good example. Same in my sport.
We lack a hard edge in many players, it's not thuggery but that ability to lift and dig deeper much like a marathon runner who can't get themselves to the finish line.
Walsh has it, Lachie Neale chased and pressured on one leg, Robbo cracked in with an eyeball hanging out but a lot of our players won't give that bit extra when the pressure goes up. Gut run till you drop, run back cover for your mate... Robbo on Harry summed it up for me.
Call it culture or pride but not many of ours will bleed for the club..
Melb Goodwin since 2016
WB Beveridge since 2015
Syd Longmire sinde 2011
All have had some lows
Had some lows and some highs.. Name our highs..
Again, at the ground (I was at the Coventry end level 2 in a pocket),
We sat on level 2 at the other end and I’ve never been surrounded by such a revolting group of Carlton supporters - there were maybe 5-6
Small Pockets of abusive, revolting Carlton supporters. It was embarrassing. Had my child with me and was really downhearted to see how horrible our supporters can be. Every club has them but there seemed to be a real bogan unwashed element last night - lots of abusive swearing down at the players. Not sure if this was a section of general admission Carlton members as previously we’ve had reserved seating so maybe they get another area at the moment?
Really felt ashamed last night. Lots of Middle Aged guys need to get themselves to therapy as their screaming and swearing in front of kids for 2 hours is not healthy.
Interesting comment by Matthew Lloyd regarding Eddie Betts on the footy show.
Basically saying that time is probably up for Eddie.
That wasn't so much the issue as the fact that Lloyd prefaced it with the comment "I may be getting into dangerous territory here....".
Given his brother's role at the club is there some difference of opinion over issues surrounding selection.
I think most folks would agree with PAULY, that we're 'not far off'... it's just that we've been 'not far off' for 'too fckn long!' That's probably what frustrates most folks - that we were close last year but do not seem to have taken the next step, which all the hype -- from media and club -- suggested. And the problem with that is many other clubs have incrementally improved... so we all start speculating as to why haven't we?
Clearly the club has also questioned 'why' hence the appointment of Woosha to help out. I hope it is the first of a few moves in the coaching dept... but not the senior coach, let's at least give him some important injured played back into the side to work with, and obviously that will rid him of the non-hackers.
We've clearly brought some of the dysfunctions from last year, into this year by:
*keeping the very same assistant coaches as last year... in fact it seems we've had the same core group forever, *sentimentality - nursing blokes to milestones, *playing blokes on reputation when out of form, *playing blokes who are clearly injured/hampered, *playing blokes out of position and *inadequate training/emphasis on defensive hardness/ethic.
So, in the hunt for 'why' folks naturally question loads of things, some erroneous some on the money. Coaches, development, culture, recruiting, football department & Board all come under scrutiny. And rightly so. Right now our form is bottom 4... to amortize present results/form over the season will see us with around 6 wins for the year... gulp.
However... putting aside the dysfunction we've successfully brought from last year to this year, I see light at the end of the tunnel when considering:
*Our injury count to key personnel is more than many. *We've a few new blokes getting used to their team mates (Williams, Fogarty & Saad in particular). *We have some good prospects in Philp, Stocker, Kemp, Carroll, De Koning, Parks, Ramsay and Honey. (Question marks remain over: Dow, LOB, Setterfield, McGovern, Kennedy etc.,). *We're 'in' most games.
Although yesterday was a bitter pill, especially considering -- much like last year -- we won 3 quarters, there was much less niceness and more hardness / intensity... and I suspect we could maintain that hardness for longer if we had the personnel and fewer passengers (obviously). Every game this year we've had at least 3-5 passengers + played blokes out of position. At least yesterday we freed up SPS and although the results were mixed, I bet he would grow into an important mid... just needs to learn to kick further than 8.2 metres.
I just hope that the changes for the cheats.com.au game, do not include Cuningham or Stocker. They must be persisted with. I've been a critic of Cuningham but the recent emphasis on his defensive game, I believe, showed yesterday. Although still somewhat the Cameo Kid, and he had plenty of mates yesterday, his overall game was better and looks very dangerous when he has aggot in hand. We need his disposal skills as well.
I think most folks would agree with PAULY, that we're 'not far off'... it's just that we've been 'not far off' for 'too fckn long!' That's probably what frustrates most folks.......................
Every time you make a significant change(s), whether it's senior coach, list rebuild, CEO, Footy Boss, you set progress further back. Some changes are unavoidable. But many are reactionary and lily-livered. If you believe the players are weak willed, and turn up their toes too easily, watch the Board and Executive capitulate when ever heat is applied. The players learn it from somewhere.
Had some lows and some highs.. Name our highs..
Not ladder position perhaps although last year, if not for a few narrow losses, we almost made the 8. Beating Geel at Geel last year was huge. Showed we can match it with best. Port after the siren last year, same. We have plenty of highs and lows. At the moment, we are a highlight reel. Convert that to consistency over 4 qtrs every week and we are contenders. Thats what's frustrating me at least, we have shown we can do it. Ill also say, the above havent undertaken the whole of club rebuild we did. We have 80K members solid finances, how many do those three have and what are their books like? Just saying. As Pauly just pointed out in Fagans presser, perhaps we need to stop tarnishing this group with the sins of the past. We continue to ride the roller coaster, hopefully we get off smiling and not chucking up in a bag.
We sat on level 2 at the other end and I’ve never been surrounded by such a revolting group of Carlton supporters - there were maybe 5-6
Small Pockets of abusive, revolting Carlton supporters. It was embarrassing. Had my child with me and was really downhearted to see how horrible our supporters can be. Every club has them but there seemed to be a real bogan unwashed element last night - lots of abusive swearing down at the players. Not sure if this was a section of general admission Carlton members as previously we’ve had reserved seating so maybe they get another area at the moment?
Really felt ashamed last night. Lots of Middle Aged guys need to get themselves to therapy as their screaming and swearing in front of kids for 2 hours is not healthy.
Thats not good. I was at the end amongst all the Brisbane supporters and it was pretty good I have to say. All the Carlton and Brisbane people were very well behaved and respectful. Im sorry you had to experience that.
Interesting comment by Matthew Lloyd regarding Eddie Betts on the footy show.
Basically saying that time is probably up for Eddie.
That wasn't so much the issue as the fact that Lloyd prefaced it with the comment "I may be getting into dangerous territory here....".
Given his brother's role at the club is there some difference of opinion over issues surrounding selection.
I say to Matthew who was to replace Eddie like for like this week? I say to Matthew watch the reserves and study our injury list. Preface your comments with that Matthew. Yes Eddie's, Murph's , Levi's times are up, who replaces them this week?
One of the problems with looking at 'what might have beens' though is that you can't look at in the isolation of only our team.
You have to look at the other sides near misses and 'stuff ups' as well.
You then also have to factor the change to the game that might have occurred if the ball went back to the centre rather than being kicked out.
It s a Butterfly effect.
And importantly if a side is pressed by a team coming at them, rather than having a comfortable margin, do they lift their game to meet, and see off,that challenge.
Port last week seemed to do only as much as they had to for us to be kept at bay.
Great post! Agree totally.
Was at the game and as it was in our last 2 losses our opposition only do what they need at the time to contain us and sadly i think the better teams know if they are 3 goals plus up on us in the last they can control the tempo control the game and get the 4 points.
We are not capable of scoring a fast run of goals that the better teams can. Our scoring is hard work and labored - so get a small gap on us in the last and its game over.
We sat on level 2 at the other end and I’ve never been surrounded by such a revolting group of Carlton supporters - there were maybe 5-6
Small Pockets of abusive, revolting Carlton supporters. It was embarrassing. Had my child with me and was really downhearted to see how horrible our supporters can be. Every club has them but there seemed to be a real bogan unwashed element last night - lots of abusive swearing down at the players. Not sure if this was a section of general admission Carlton members as previously we’ve had reserved seating so maybe they get another area at the moment?
Really felt ashamed last night. Lots of Middle Aged guys need to get themselves to therapy as their screaming and swearing in front of kids for 2 hours is not healthy.
I was level 2 as well behind the goals and didn't hear anything like that.
I was level 2 as well behind the goals and didn't hear anything like that.
So which ends are we talking about? Bris Cheer Squad or Carlton Cheer Squad? I was level 2 behind the goals Brisbane Cheer Squad end.
We lack a hard edge in many players, it's not thuggery but that ability to lift and dig deeper much like a marathon runner who can't get themselves to the finish line.
Walsh has it, Lachie Neale chased and pressured on one leg, Robbo cracked in with an eyeball hanging out but a lot of our players won't give that bit extra when the pressure goes up. Gut run till you drop, run back cover for your mate... Robbo on Harry summed it up for me.
Call it culture or pride but not many of ours will bleed for the club..
And Harry tapped him and said sorry when he saw the damage to Robbos eye. I said to my daughter at the time that is a soft too nice approach. The best teams would not have that mindset to feel 'bad' for the opposition no matter what.
I hated Clarkson when he flooded back to prevent Fev from kicking that last goal to get his ton but in hindsight while i still hate the bloke he is a winner, he is a ruthless coach who feels no empathy for the opposition no matter what the situation is. Its in his blood. He knew we would look to Fev at all costs in the last to get him the goal he needed so even though the game was done he still knew he had to counter our plan which then prevented Fev from getting the goal he needed. Hes a pr1ck i know but its also part of the culture that lead to 4 flags.
If our current team was Hawthorn that day we would have kicked it to Fev to hand him the ton and then would have gone up and congratulated him. Same as chairing Gibbs off after losing - its the wrong culture the wrong look and any serious successful culture would not be part of that look.
I was level 2 as well behind the goals and didn't hear anything like that.
Carlton cheer squad end, level 2 Aisle 26.
Have had similar experiences to Mickey0, had to tell one guy last week to stop swearing, later the security came and spoke to him. It wasn't me who called them but they really should have kicked him out. Yesterday I asked a guy to stop his moaning during the putrid second quarter. Another supporter said he was saying what everyone else was thinking and someone has got to make the team listen. First off they can't hear us in the outer and secondly, going on and on about the sides performance just makes a depressing situation even more depressing. If you are not enjoying your football experience, don't come, in a lot of ways these people are just being selfish. Finally, while we all have the right to free speech, we also have the right to remain silent, and just because you want to talk it doesn't mean I want to listen, so in my opinion, people should make there comments and move on and not keep going over the same ground.
It was the same old story, inability to hit targets, poor decision making and bad kicking for goal. Our last two goals by Murphy and McGovern came about from good foot skills and good finishing. Where was that in the first 120 minutes of the game? I liked the Docherty and SPS, along with Murphy, Cuningham and others starting up in the middle of the ground. I thought it allowed for more players to get into the game and made us a lot less stagnant, unfortunately we lost too many one on one in our D50 and we were smashed when the ball hit the ground in our F50. I was happy that Cripps was hand passing more but he just needs to get better at that and more players need to be running past when he does get it so we can start getting waves of players going forward.
The second quarter was so bad it overshadows what was reasonable to good efforts in the other three quarters. If Cripps had kicked the goal, then the ball would not have been swept down to the Brisbane goal and it would have been a six to three quarter, while this would be bad it is not disastrous. Finally I am not sure we can carry Betts and Murphy in our front half at the same time.
Have had similar experiences to Mickey0, had to tell one guy last week to stop swearing, later the security came and spoke to him. It wasn't me who called them but they really should have kicked him out. Yesterday I asked a guy to stop his moaning during the putrid second quarter. Another supporter said he was saying what everyone else was thinking and someone has got to make the team listen. First off they can't hear us in the outer and secondly, going on and on about the sides performance just makes a depressing situation even more depressing. If you are not enjoying your football experience, don't come, in a lot of ways these people are just being selfish. Finally, while we all have the right to free speech, we also have the right to remain silent, and just because you want to talk it doesn't mean I want to listen, so in my opinion, people should make there comments and move on and not keep going over the same ground.
It was the same old story, inability to hit targets, poor decision making and bad kicking for goal. Our last two goals by Murphy and McGovern came about from good foot skills and good finishing. Where was that in the first 120 minutes of the game? I liked the Docherty and SPS, along with Murphy, Cuningham and others starting up in the middle of the ground. I thought it allowed for more players to get into the game and made us a lot less stagnant, unfortunately we lost too many one on one in our D50 and we were smashed when the ball hit the ground in our F50. I was happy that Cripps was hand passing more but he just needs to get better at that and more players need to be running past when he does get it so we can start getting waves of players going forward.
The second quarter was so bad it overshadows what was reasonable to good efforts in the other three quarters. If Cripps had kicked the goal, then the ball would not have been swept down to the Brisbane goal and it would have been a six to three quarter, while this would be bad it is not disastrous. Finally I am not sure we can carry Betts and Murphy in our front half at the same time.
Great post.
RE Cripps, yes handball and handball quickly to runners. He attracts a crowd so we must have blokes who are free, capitalise.
sorry guys same old story when the opposition lifts a gear we go missing it all depends in which Q it comes. Slow ball movement from defense is another problem (plow,Doc,sps) . Afraid once again nothing has changed from previous years.
I'm not supporting poor behaviour at the footy, but don't think you understand that this club means a huge, huge amount to some suppourters and some of those supporters have had enough after 20 plus years of irrelevance... And when you're got the same spin meisters in charge who refuse to listen to the common man who coughs up his $500 or so each year to get nothing but bitter disappointment, yes I get it. Then we have a hopeless MC with a questionable selection policy, the same old players making the same old mistakes and skill errors.... Yes, I can see people going to the footy and getting more than a touch exasperated and swearing. I mean look at yesterday.... Nobody on Rich, Betts getting what, two kicks, Levi invisible, Williams' $800 K shank, inconsistent umpiring, Murphy's inability to apply pressure.... Yes, some swearing is inevitable.
I'm not supporting poor behaviour at the footy, but don't think you understand that this club means a huge, huge amount to some suppourters and some of those supporters have had enough after 20 plus years of irrelevance... And when you're got the same spin meisters in charge who refuse to listen to the common man who coughs up his $500 or so each year to get nothing but bitter disappointment, yes I get it. Then we have a hopeless MC with a questionable selection policy, the same old players making the same old mistakes and skill errors.... Yes, I can see people going to the footy and getting more than a touch exasperated and swearing. I mean look at yesterday.... Nobody on Rich, Betts getting what, two kicks, Levi invisible, Williams' $800 K shank, inconsistent umpiring, Murphy's inability to apply pressure.... Yes, some swearing is inevitable.
Eddie got at least 4 kicks as he got 4 points. We even "carltonised" Eddie into being a 5hit at goal. At Adelaide that'd have been 4 goals.
I'm not supporting poor behaviour at the footy, but don't think you understand that this club means a huge, huge amount to some suppourters and some of those supporters have had enough after 20 plus years of irrelevance... And when you're got the same spin meisters in charge who refuse to listen to the common man who coughs up his $500 or so each year to get nothing but bitter disappointment, yes I get it. Then we have a hopeless MC with a questionable selection policy, the same old players making the same old mistakes and skill errors.... Yes, I can see people going to the footy and getting more than a touch exasperated and swearing. I mean look at yesterday.... Nobody on Rich, Betts getting what, two kicks, Levi invisible, Williams' $800 K shank, inconsistent umpiring, Murphy's inability to apply pressure.... Yes, some swearing is inevitable.
Absolutely no problem with the odd f bomb and the frustration and I’m a paid up member of decades and my kids have been since birth too, but to be swearing constantly out loud at the umpires, the goal umpire, our players - which then turns into a fight amongst supporters - really makes a glum viewing when we’re losing, 10x worse!
Along with that was constant swearing and yelling out at Robbo and Joe Daniher ? Bizarre.
Consideration to others, I get the frustration but this behaviour was next level.
Carlton cheer squad end, level 2 Aisle 26.
I was in aisle 25.
The odds are in our favour that on one day our forwards will all kick accurately and we will win a match. We'll be very happy and then reality will set in the following week.
The fact is we have problems with our list. We can't depend on TDK and Charlie being long term players. TDK has been injured a number of times and mystery surrounds his present injury. He may turn out to have a long term future or be another Marchbank. The club has provided no information on his progress since 14 April when it was said he was 1 or 2 weeks away.
Similarly Charlie's long term future is an unknown.
Right now we need another ruckman. At best Pitt breaks even and our mids are not capable of playing to a losing ruck.
We need two additional mids, preferably with a bit of bulk, to give some depth to our midfield.
Finally, we desperately need a decent centre half forward to give stability to our underperforming forwards.
If we don't try to fill the positions at the draft we will continue to be an " almost good enough side".
Absolutely no problem with the odd f bomb and the frustration and I’m a paid up member of decades and my kids have been since birth too, but to be swearing constantly out loud at the umpires, the goal umpire, our players - which then turns into a fight amongst supporters - really makes a glum viewing when we’re losing, 10x worse!
Along with that was constant swearing and yelling out at Robbo and Joe Daniher ? Bizarre.
Consideration to others, I get the frustration but this behaviour was next level.
Generally agree. I think supporters need a little context and need to behave like adults. It's a game of football, nothing more and nothing less. I get the emotional attachment, but a ticket for a game or a membership doesn't come with the right to abuse at will. If you think the club doesn't deserve your money, then don't give them any.
In my post I meant 24 March with regard to TDK
[/quote]
I was in aisle 25.
Maybe you were one of them or that behaviour is acceptable to you. I’ve gone to every Carlton home game give or take for the past two decades and it’s never been as feral as it was last night.
Maybe you were one of them or that behaviour is acceptable to you. I’ve gone to every Carlton home game give or take for the past two decades and it’s never been as feral as it was last night.
I was with my wife and 2 young kids. Just asked my wife and she said she did hear one large Carlton supporter in the next aisle call our own player a soft c#$% sucker. I must have been in the toilet.
I'm not supporting poor behaviour at the footy, but don't think you understand that this club means a huge, huge amount to some suppourters and some of those supporters have had enough after 20 plus years of irrelevance... And when you're got the same spin meisters in charge who refuse to listen to the common man who coughs up his $500 or so each year to get nothing but bitter disappointment, yes I get it. Then we have a hopeless MC with a questionable selection policy, the same old players making the same old mistakes and skill errors.... Yes, I can see people going to the footy and getting more than a touch exasperated and swearing. I mean look at yesterday.... Nobody on Rich, Betts getting what, two kicks, Levi invisible, Williams' $800 K shank, inconsistent umpiring, Murphy's inability to apply pressure.... Yes, some swearing is inevitable.
I agree with most of what you say but swearing and carrying on like a pork chop at the footy in front of ladies and kids in unacceptable, period. One must control oneself and behave in public, no need to become the lowest common denominator.
I liked Stockers goal... Shame it was a point for Brisbane..
Yes a strange one. The thought that went tnrogh my mind was, is that a miss kick, or just a lapse of concentration of where he was? If its a lapse no issue if its a miss kick then id be really worried as he is suppose to be an elite kick. Went at 50%.
Yes a strange one. The thought that went tnrogh my mind was, is that a miss kick, or just a lapse of concentration of where he was? If its a lapse no issue if its a miss kick then id be really worried as he is suppose to be an elite kick. Went at 50%.
It was right in front of me, he was trying to pass it to player in the pocket but shanked the kick straight through the big sticks (Brisbanes).
I'm not supporting poor behaviour at the footy, but don't think you understand that this club means a huge, huge amount to some suppourters and some of those supporters have had enough after 20 plus years of irrelevance... And when you're got the same spin meisters in charge who refuse to listen to the common man who coughs up his $500 or so each year to get nothing but bitter disappointment, yes I get it. Then we have a hopeless MC with a questionable selection policy, the same old players making the same old mistakes and skill errors.... Yes, I can see people going to the footy and getting more than a touch exasperated and swearing. I mean look at yesterday.... Nobody on Rich, Betts getting what, two kicks, Levi invisible, Williams' $800 K shank, inconsistent umpiring, Murphy's inability to apply pressure.... Yes, some swearing is inevitable.
RE the MC selections, who out of the following who played yesterday in the VFL should have played ahead of any last night? (the following are the only Carlton listed players who played)
Obrien
Setterfield
Dow
Honey
Owies
Durdin
Williamson
Ramsey
Philp
Kennedy (med sup)
Betts kicked 0.4, and 2 of those he would normally kick in his sleep. Add to that Stocker's own goal (behind) and there's 13 points wiped off the deficit right there. For a team with apparently low work rate and at times terrible skills against a top 4 contender..................
Was watching him in the warm up and he was kicking them from ever angle, bannas set shots could not miss. So he probably used all his accuracy credits during the warm up. :P
Was watching him in the warm up and he was kicking them from every angle, bananas set shots could not miss. So he probably used all his accuracy credits during the warm up. :P
;D
RE the MC selections, who out of the following who played yesterday in the VFL should have played ahead of any last night? (the following are the only Carlton listed players who played)
Obrien
Setterfield
Dow
Honey
Owies
Durdin
Williamson
Ramsey
Philp
Kennedy (med sup)
I would have persisted with Kennedy, and given Honey a run of games. Jack Silvagni said Honey was the one he liked as he has a strong mature body making him more AFL ready.
As it is Setterfield will probably come back in vs Essendon and maybe Dow but they wouldnt be my choice...
Our fans need to do their bit too. Last two home matches attended and you would struggle to see a decent crowd.
For 80000 members we wonder why our players put in a soulless performance and when you need a lift sometimes the fans could provide it.
Utmost respect to anyone that goes and I empathize with anyone who cbf but we need to really show how big a footy club we really are and do our part too.
RE the MC selections, who out of the following who played yesterday in the VFL should have played ahead of any last night? (the following are the only Carlton listed players who played)
Obrien
Setterfield
Dow
Honey
Owies
Durdin
Williamson
Ramsey
Philp
Kennedy (med sup)
Dow, Honey
Murphy or Eddie and Newnes out
From the AFL website :
Levi Casboult, Carlton, has been charged with Kneeing Ryan Lester, Brisbane Lions, during the second quarter of the Round Six match between Carlton and the Brisbane Lions, played at Marvel Stadium on Saturday April 24.
In summary, he can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.
Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Low Impact, Body Contact. The incident was classified as a $3000 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.
From the AFL website :
Levi Casboult, Carlton, has been charged with Kneeing Ryan Lester, Brisbane Lions, during the second quarter of the Round Six match between Carlton and the Brisbane Lions, played at Marvel Stadium on Saturday April 24.
In summary, he can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.
Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Low Impact, Body Contact. The incident was classified as a $3000 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.
Ha, ha. What an ffein joke the AFL is.
Lachie Neale fined also.
A few observations:
- We were sitting L3, Lockett end - no dramas with the crowd
- Not sure if Levi's eyes are right - he is running under the ball a bit
- When we slipped over, it generally cost us more than the Lions. Can only remember one time Lions slipping over to their detriment
- There were a few times when our efforts up the ground converted to easy goals/attempts for Brisbane (eg a pack marking attempt - we would all go up, miss it and the ball went out the back, giving defence no hope). Need to get those OOB
- We handball/kick to our teammate where they have been, not where they are going, which really stops momentum
- A couple of times while Harry was lining up, I covered my 5yos ears because the roar would be too loud when he kicked the goal. Not much noise a couple of times. The Brisbane supporters seemed louder
- this did change when we got to 7 pts in the third. Then we stuffed something up and it again stopped momentum as Lions kicked the next few.
- set shots still haunt us.
From the AFL website :
Levi Casboult, Carlton, has been charged with Kneeing Ryan Lester, Brisbane Lions, during the second quarter of the Round Six match between Carlton and the Brisbane Lions, played at Marvel Stadium on Saturday April 24.
In summary, he can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.
Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Low Impact, Body Contact. The incident was classified as a $3000 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $2000 sanction with an early plea.
Go back a week and watch Dixon, then try to makes sense of this?
Lachie Neale fined also.
Sorry, you miss-spelled “8 weeks”. Isn’t that the standard penalty for grabbing an umpire? See Williams, Greg
Sorry, you miss-spelled “8 weeks”. Isn’t that the standard penalty for grabbing an umpire? See Williams, Greg
Funny reply that, well played. They were talking how since the Diesel incident, they have reworded the rule a couple of times. Its alot less black and white (as usual with AFL rules). It went from "lay a finger on an ump = gone" to "well sorta kinda if you brush passed or fart loudly near the ump thats ok..."
Our fans need to do their bit too. Last two home matches attended and you would struggle to see a decent crowd.
I think attendances are all over the place this year. Consider Saturday night, a feature match over the weekend, Richmond 100,000+ members, Melbourne on a roll. 56,000 turn up. That seems unders for a game that had an 85,000 capacity.
I think attendances are all over the place this year. Consider Saturday night, a feature match over the weekend, Richmond 100,000+ members, Melbourne on a roll. 56,000 turn up. That seems unders for a game that had an 85,000 capacity.
Id agree except we've been like this for a while.
The ticketing isn't making life easy either. Most people aren't organised enough to book in advance and you can't choose where you sit. Two massive limitations when you can watch on TV.
I still think it's spread over too many days now, it's leaving people with AFL overload and eventually it affects all games.
It's too hard to get tickets. I'm an AFL member but couldn't get level 1 seats which are for free so I had to either sit on level 3 or pay over $100 for my family to go on the weekend.
I couldn't get level 1 seats for the Collingwood game so in the end I chose not to go.
Yes, it's barely applicable for families now, the cost is too high.
In a few years it'll be like EPL, with hardly anyone younger than a teenager to be seen in the stadium.
But this year, since last year, even my friends who are MCC members are not going to many games if any, yet we've been to several suburban games. I could tell this was going to be a trend a year or two back, lots of my mates can't stand how orchestrated the live game has become, and you'd think this season with so many goals being kicked you now have to stop and wait for the broadcaster to give the all clear every 2 or 3 minutes.
Now the broadcasters and coaches are complaining the quarters are going too long, but 10 out of the 35 minutes is waiting for the broadcaster's Ad break to finish!
Just another one of those games where you can take away some positives but just be sick and tired of the same old negatives.
How many games have been lost under Teague on the back of one absolutely sh#thouse quarter of footy? It's just hard to fathom that we can come out and play with the sort of intent and endeavour we did in the first quarter and then just go completely missing in the second?
I'm not sure if we have a skills coach but if we do, he should be looking for another job? Every week it's the same thing....we continue to make the easy look impossible. Opposition teams score heavily from shocking turnovers and basic skill execution errors.
If not for Walsh and Jones and maybe Harry, that would've been a slaughter. Hard to criticise Harry with 6 goals but it's heart in the mouth stuff every time. Even his around the corner snaps travelled barely 40m and when it's a straight drop punt....he's less than a 50/50 chance.
The delivery into the forward line at times is laughable. The number of times we kick it straight to an opponent...or sit it on a team mate's head...or hospital handpass to a bloke standing still with an opponent right on him.
It's like shooting Bambi but I think Eddie's time is up and he's probably gone on a year too long. Will the club be brave enough to drop him or will he just be "rested"?
Docherty still looks a shadow of the AA player he was and is regularly making shocking mistakes, dropping marks.
We can criticise Levi but with no other ruck or key forward options at the moment, he simply has to play. Similarly, hard to criticise Pitto either....cracks in every week. He was recruited primarily as a back up ruckman to Kreuzer and TDK as he developed...but has been the number 1 ruckman basically since round 2 last year. The lack of planning in terms of a long term ruck option is appalling.
Williams' disposal has been terrible...and that was one of his strong points with GWS. Are we simply just masters at turning good players into ordinary players with poor skills?
On the positive side...Walsh is simply incredible. He doesn't stop gut running from the opening bounce and for a kid in only the beginning of his third season, it's inevitable that AA selection isn't too far off.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-carlton-first-crack-brisbane-lions-david-teague-effort-defensive-structure-vision-video/news-story/0b05b102f406785e98c1b49d5f328c5c
There's a few takeaways from this clip, but my personal favourite ? After complaining about the Byzantine complexity of Bolton's game plan messing with the players' heads, Teague was praised for simplifying things. Now, apparently playing 1on1 (at least in defence) is no longer acceptable because it's not "2021 football." HA!
St Kilda great Leigh Montagna expanded on King’s points, explaining how it was telling none of their defenders barked instructions like Melbourne players did against the Tigers, as well as the one-on-one nature of their style.
“That system behind the ball is not modern football. They are still playing one-on-one, as soon as one player, that was Murphy, who doesn’t have their man, the whole defensive system falls apart,” he added.
“If you think about how Richmond, Melbourne, the Western Bulldogs, West Coast. All the good teams have a system and they work together and roll around. Carlton play 1v1, they all follow their man and once one is free they end up being checkers and it goes over the top. That’s why they are being scored against so easily.
My 2 c worth is as follows
I've watched Carlton training over the last few years...pre Covid and since
Everything is at cruise control...nice running patters and most kicks hit targets...there is zero match simulation and pressure on kicks and tackles..no wonder we melt under full match conditions
Goal kicking practice a joke...sit there with 20 footys and kick away...no man on the mark or do a quick 20m sprint and have heart rate up when shooting ..like match day..what a joke
And of course can't have too many shots like Dunstall and Lockett did after training did due to sports management on loads
I heard Jack Riewoldt sneaks off to the local park with a couple of footys and a mate and gets in xtras...
No wonder he's the sharpest converter current in AFL as a FF
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-carlton-first-crack-brisbane-lions-david-teague-effort-defensive-structure-vision-video/news-story/0b05b102f406785e98c1b49d5f328c5c
There's a few takeaways from this clip, but my personal favourite ? After complaining about the Byzantine complexity of Bolton's game plan messing with the players' heads, Teague was praised for simplifying things. Now, apparently playing 1on1 (at least in defence) is no longer acceptable because it's not "2021 football." HA!
St Kilda great Leigh Montagna expanded on King’s points, explaining how it was telling none of their defenders barked instructions like Melbourne players did against the Tigers, as well as the one-on-one nature of their style.
“That system behind the ball is not modern football. They are still playing one-on-one, as soon as one player, that was Murphy, who doesn’t have their man, the whole defensive system falls apart,” he added.
“If you think about how Richmond, Melbourne, the Western Bulldogs, West Coast. All the good teams have a system and they work together and roll around. Carlton play 1v1, they all follow their man and once one is free they end up being checkers and it goes over the top. That’s why they are being scored against so easily.
I've got no doubt that we have issues running both ways and most of what was said was spot on.
But.....
On both those clips....we had the ball....and we couldn't hit a teammate. The turnover created the issue. That issue can be papered over by gut running the other way, and ideally you fix both. However, first and foremost we need to make sure we hit our targets.
You don't need to defend if you constantly have the ball and can find a teammate.
So my biggest issue, and i called Cripps out for it last week, is finding a teammate rather than bombing long to the opposition. Give off the handball to a bloke in a better position and/or with better kicking skills.
We are winning the I50's but losing the game.....because we can't hit a target and kick it through the big ones.
Train it, train it, train it.
Wins will come off the back of it.
My 2 c worth is as follows
I've watched Carlton training over the last few years...pre Covid and since
Everything is at cruise control...nice running patters and most kicks hit targets...there is zero match simulation and pressure on kicks and tackles..no wonder we melt under full match conditions
Goal kicking practice a joke...sit there with 20 footys and kick away...no man on the mark or do a quick 20m sprint and have heart rate up when shooting ..like match day..what a joke
And of course can't have too many shots like Dunstall and Lockett did after training did due to sports management on loads
I heard Jack Riewoldt sneaks off to the local park with a couple of footys and a mate and gets in xtras...
No wonder he's the sharpest converter current in AFL as a FF
He's not the only bloke to do that.
I think Fev, and maybe Lloydy used to do it too.
Definitely a few others.
That should speak volumes to the club. Players are requiring training that the club can not or will not give them. Perhaps you should rethink your training??
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/shock-treatment-time-for-a-big-name-blue-to-fall-says-rhys-jones-20210426-p57mba.html
John Pierik article in The Age, published about 4pm this arvo.
Carlton great David Rhys-Jones has called on the Blues to make a big-name statement at selection in a bid to “shock” the struggling side into gear ahead of Sunday’s key clash against arch-rival Essendon.
Rhys-Jones, the 1987 Norm Smith medallist, said veterans Marc Murphy, Eddie Betts and Levi Casboult should face the axe and allow youngsters to be given an extended run in a side which has slumped to 2-4 and faces a defining month against the Bombers, Western Bulldogs and Melbourne.
Marc Murphy’s defensive work wasn’t always as sharp as it should have been on the weekend.
“Some hard decisions have to be made at the selection table. At times, it can shock the players into doing something,” Rhys-Jones said on Monday.
“I don’t like naming players that should be dropped, it’s unfair on the group, on those players in particular, but the guys that I have mentioned are over that 30-year-age bracket and they are not producing. That’s what you have to start looking at – [not] keeping them in the team, and turning over 21 and 22-year-olds. How would they feel week in, week out, knowing if they don’t have a great game, they are straight out, whereas other blokes are getting a continuous run with poor form.
“We haven’t been blown out of the water but it’s just the mistakes, missed goals. We have older blokes in there that are not producing – you look at Murphy, Betts and Casboult as the three that stand out, aren’t they?”
Betts, 34, finished with 0.4 in an 18-point loss to the Brisbane Lions on Saturday, including missing back-to-back shots early in the third term, later prompting coach David Teague to say the 335-game veteran wasn’t alone in lacking confidence. He has only two goals in four matches and is part of the problem Teague lamented when he said the Blues were not winning enough ground ball inside attacking 50 and capitalising on their work up the ground.
Eddie Betts is tackled by Dayne Zorko of the Lions on Saturday.Credit:Getty Images
“He is missing goals that were his bread and butter. That’s what happens when a bit older too – you are not quite there,” Rhys-Jones said.
Murphy, having struggled in a new half-forward role, was used on a wing and at stoppages on Saturday. The 33-year-old, nine matches shy of 300, had 19 touches (averaging 15.5) and was far from the worst Blue but his defensive work wasn’t always as sharp as it should have been.
Key tall Casboult, 31, was goalless (he has four in six matches), had only eight disposals and again failed to take a mark against the Lions, as happened in round 18 last year. His frustration was obvious when he kneed Ryan Lester in the second term and was later charged by the match review officer.
While full-forward Harry McKay is second (22 goals) in the Coleman Medal race and is emerging as a star, Rhys-Jones said Will Setterfield, who had 25 touches in the VFL, Paddy Dow, with 20 in the VFL, and Matthew Kennedy, the unused AFL substitute on Saturday, were among those who needed more time in the seniors to see if they could become consistent performers. Setterfield, Kennedy, Lochie O’Brien, Matthew Cottrell, Josh Honey and Matthew Owies are among a young group off contract this season, while Dow is signed until the end of 2022.
“The same players get dropped every week. That’s the sad reality of what has happened over the last few years,” Rhys-Jones, the unofficial president of the Blues’ past players association, said.
“Some of these [are] what you would call fringe-type players, they are not getting a run at it. Their arse is on the line every week ... I thought last week was the perfect occasion to make a statement.”
Rhys-Jones said Teague’s decision to shift Sam Petrevski-Seton from half-back, where he had not been providing enough drive, to half-forward was welcomed.
“He looked a bit more dangerous but he ended up back there [in defence] towards the end of the game,” he said.
Premiership coach John Worsfold has begun as an official mentor for Teague and his assistants, coming as Essendon great Matthew Lloyd questioned on Monday whether the Blues would finish in the bottom six, while former North Melbourne premiership player David King labelled the Blues’ man-on-man defence as “horrible”.
“It looks dated. It doesn’t look like the modern plan. It doesn’t look like a team defence, it’s a back six. That’s not 2021 football,” King said on SEN.
The Blues have conceded an average of 102.5 points in their four losses – the fourth most of any side with at least two defeats.
I've got no doubt that we have issues running both ways and most of what was said was spot on.
But.....
On both those clips....we had the ball....and we couldn't hit a teammate. The turnover created the issue. That issue can be papered over by gut running the other way, and ideally you fix both. However, first and foremost we need to make sure we hit our targets.
You don't need to defend if you constantly have the ball and can find a teammate.
So my biggest issue, and i called Cripps out for it last week, is finding a teammate rather than bombing long to the opposition. Give off the handball to a bloke in a better position and/or with better kicking skills.
We are winning the I50's but losing the game.....because we can't hit a target and kick it through the big ones.
Train it, train it, train it.
Wins will come off the back of it.
Yes, it's patently obvious our problem is using the football, it's hard to see how anyone can claim otherwise and keep a straight face!
Last weekend, at one stage of the replay you see a Carlton player with the ball in the midfield, I think it may have been Curnow, Doc or sMurph. Inside F50 directly behind the umpire standing beyond the mark is a 15m blob of clear space 35m out from goal ringed by three Carlton players, all the opposition are on the outside of this ring. We held and held the ball, then kicked it 40m over the back of the clear space to Betts who is one out against two opponents with a wall of opposition between Betts and the nearest team-mate. All we had to do was drop the ball in the space and have any one of three Carlton players run onto it!
This is not the first time I've seen us do this, it isn't a player problem, it's a coaching problem, but which coach?
Time and time again, you'll see several Carlton players guarding a zone within our F50, a zone that we seemingly can't kick into. It's like we have no idea how to be forwards, how to block and check opponents working together to create a mark and kick inside F50 for goal.
Good teams kick to that space, we kick to the players around it.
My issue is with the stated problem and the stated solution. Today, the problem is black, therefore the solution is white. Next week, the problem is white, therefore the solution must be black.
Malthouse is too old, Bolton / Teague too young and inexperienced. Malthouse is too grumpy and unpleasant, Teague is too nice. bolton's game plan is too complex, Teague's is too simple.
Whether we go wth black or white, it never works.
Which simply proves, yet again, as Chomsky said, outside of a few very small areas of knowledge, nobody knows much about anything.
My issue is with the stated problem and the stated solution. Today, the problem is black, therefore the solution is white. Next week, the problem is white, therefore the solution must be black.
Malthouse is too old, Bolton / Teague too young and inexperienced. Malthouse is too grumpy and unpleasant, Teague is too nice. bolton's game plan is too complex, Teague's is too simple.
Whether we go wth black or white, it never works.
Which simply proves, yet again, as Chomsky said, outside of a few very small areas of knowledge, nobody knows much about anything.
Maybe the playing list then....its hard to compare given circumstances the way lists were built but both us and GWS are not fairing well at the minute and both had the same builder.
Maybe the playing list then....its hard to compare given circumstances the way lists were built but both us and GWS are not fairing well at the minute and both had the same builder.
Maybe, but the GWS playing list has been picked apart for years. Way more exits than blokes coming in. I don't think I've heard many FA's nominate GWS as their preferred destination. And I don't mean oldies on their last legs. The job GWS have to build a successful club and culture is pretty difficult IMO.
I also have mixed feelings about SOS, but we're always riding the blame merry-go-round, because if you rate SOS, it must be development, or the coach, or Russell or..........................
My issue is with the stated problem and the stated solution. Today, the problem is black, therefore the solution is white. Next week, the problem is white, therefore the solution must be black.
Malthouse is too old, Bolton / Teague too young and inexperienced. Malthouse is too grumpy and unpleasant, Teague is too nice. bolton's game plan is too complex, Teague's is too simple.
Whether we go wth black or white, it never works.
Which simply proves, yet again, as Chomsky said, outside of a few very small areas of knowledge, nobody knows much about anything.
I don't know who you've been listening too, but its been pretty clear and pretty consistently the fact we can't find a teammate and can't chase.
Fix that and there won't be any issues.
Maybe, but the GWS playing list has been picked apart for years. Way more exits than blokes coming in. I don't think I've heard many FA's nominate GWS as their preferred destination. And I don't mean oldies on their last legs. The job GWS have to build a successful club and culture is pretty difficult IMO.
I also have mixed feelings about SOS, but we're always riding the blame merry-go-round, because if you rate SOS, it must be development, or the coach, or Russell or..........................
You can identify the same deficiencies in both teams...debatable leadership, lack of physicality and both lists constantly have injured players....bad luck maybe or just brittle players to start with?
GWS have those skills we crave and yes they have been a supermarket for players for other clubs but how many of those players have really kicked on, smacked it out of the park at other clubs and propelled those teams to greater glory...maybe Jack Steele.
How many GWS players are there on the recent premiership winners lists?..Townsend at the Tigers.....
Richmond, Hawthorn, Bulldogs, West Coast havent really over done the GWS theme have they?
....................................................... how many of those players have really kicked on, smacked it out of the park at other clubs and propelled those teams to greater glory...maybe Jack Steele.
How many GWS players are there on the recent premiership winners lists?..Townsend at the Tigers.....
Richmond, Hawthorn, Bulldogs, West Coast havent really over done the GWS theme have they?
We can quibble about the bar you have set, which sounds like it would eliminate 90% of traded players from all clubs, but I would argue that in addition to Steele, Josh Bruce, Devon Smith, Hoskin-Elliott, Treloar, Dylan Shiel, Tomlinson (especially this season), and probably Sam Frost have all added positively to their later clubs. Treloar and Steele are probably the pick of the bunch IMO.
It's too hard to get tickets. I'm an AFL member but couldn't get level 1 seats which are for free so I had to either sit on level 3 or pay over $100 for my family to go on the weekend.
Thats garbage given all the money you shell out. What I want to know is why can I used me reserved seats which I have paid a bomb for. It makes no sense to me, I have a seat let me bloody use it.
And I forgot Taylor Adams.
Thats garbage given all the money you shell out. What I want to know is why can I used me reserved seats which I have paid a bomb for. It makes no sense to me, I have a seat let me bloody use it.
If people were allowed to sit in their own reserved seat it would make contact tracing too easy. We can't have that.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/921878/jones-nominated-for-mark-of-the-year
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-carlton-first-crack-brisbane-lions-david-teague-effort-defensive-structure-vision-video/news-story/0b05b102f406785e98c1b49d5f328c5c
My 2 c worth is as follows
I've watched Carlton training over the last few years...pre Covid and since
Everything is at cruise control...nice running patters and most kicks hit targets...there is zero match simulation and pressure on kicks and tackles..no wonder we melt under full match conditions
Goal kicking practice a joke...sit there with 20 footys and kick away...no man on the mark or do a quick 20m sprint and have heart rate up when shooting ..like match day..what a joke
Excellent post
@Gags1960 .. precisely what sh1ts me to death. Lousy coaching
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-carlton-first-crack-brisbane-lions-david-teague-effort-defensive-structure-vision-video/news-story/0b05b102f406785e98c1b49d5f328c5c
Hard to argue with that when there's vision.
Hard to argue with that when there's vision.
I think it pays to look at the vision more and listen less.
If you go back and watch those clips, especially the first 2 about Plowman and Wing, you find the problem is our midfield being sucked forward.
In the Plowman case pause at the 27s mark and look at the left wing logo, you see three Carlton mids trailing behind the play guarding one opponent, as the play progresses they all get sucked forward and leave opposition numbers goal side behind them.
In the Wing clip, pause at 1:01s the Wing whoever has trailed his opponent into F50, the four opposition on the wing come out of the midfield left guarded by only two Carlton players.
In both cases, we have numbers around the football and lose the contest, so much for our super stoppage types. King's questioning defence is correct, but he's been lazy in the analysis.
The reason the King analysis is so soft and meaningless is simply this, if those players he criticises do the exact opposite, if they do exactly what he asked them to do, then the opponent they do not chase can come out the other side of the contest with the football, King will make the very same claims about the Carlton players not guarding opponents. King will say something like, "Nobody wanted to go with them!"
King is describing a symptom, not the cause.
Nothing new, everyone knows we don't man up well and our defense chases kicks and leaves leaves single players stranded on multiple opponents or a midget defender trying to stop a tall forward.
Players like Rich know if they work hard enough and run forward it's picnic time because his man won't run after him and will selfishly just hope the ball rebounds back so he can get an easy kick.
Probably the easiest gig is playing on Cripps, after the stoppage,tough to stop him getting the ball initially but if you can prevent that and then run hard enough you are going to get some easy ball, especially if Cripps has turned it over by foot and its coming back quickly you are going to be free to get that rebound kick and won't have an opponent.
Players standing flat footed guarding grass on the switch across the ground.... Murphy. SPS just to name a few who give up quickly and won't chase in that situation.
Letting the small forward get goalside for the easy cherry over the back is another favourite and we added let the newbie light weight kid out position our defenders initially and dance around feeble tackling to kick an easy goal on the square ie Robertson, how easy was that?
Lazy brain dead football by players on big bucks who don't want to do the basics because it's too hard. Supporters are past yelling and screaming, they are laughing like when Stocker kicked an own goal, even the player laughed its so pitiful..
Players standing flat footed guarding grass on the switch across the ground.... Murphy. SPS just to name a few who give up quickly and won't chase in that situation.
Sorry
@ElwoodBlues1 but critics can't have it both ways.
King is basically criticising the same players for running with an opponent, so it can't be that they don't chase, he wants them to stand their ground and mark a space/zone. If they do that then you or he will say they don't chase. It's a no win situation for them in that circumstance.
The real problem is that we consistently have three players from our midfield not guarding anybody, not picking up loose players, not holding a zone and not involved in the play. They run one way, and even then only run half the time!
Sorry @ElwoodBlues1 but critics can't have it both ways.
King is basically criticising the same players for running with an opponent, so it can't be that they don't chase, he wants them to stand their ground and mark a space/zone. If they do that then you or he will say they don't chase. It's a no win situation for them in that circumstance.
The real problem is that we consistently have three players from our midfield not guarding anybody, not picking up loose players, not holding a zone and not involved in the play. They run one way, and even then only run half the time!
My gripe is non chasing, spectating and leaving the teammates hung out dry.
I don't want them guarding grass like what happened with Bolton... You still have to chase and pressure even with little hope of success sometimes.. See Hooker vs Buddy..
Our blokes don't see it that way, often they just slow up and give it away..
My gripe is non chasing, spectating and leaving the teammates hung out dry.
I don't want them guarding grass like what happened with Bolton... You still have to chase and pressure even with little hope of success sometimes.. See Hooker vs Buddy..
Our blokes don't see it that way, often they just slow up and give it away..
I don't have a problem with that want, but it doesn't fit with Kings analysis which is what I commented on.
King's lambasting guys Plowman and sMurph(or whoever) for following players into a contest, in other words he's lambasting them for chasing.
It lets those players I highlighted above off the hook, three or four from our midfield, that are almost unaccountable to any opposition.
King and Montagna actually blamed the coach and our defensive system or lack of one. Montagna actually said we will win games because we're a good football team.
King and Montagna actually blamed the coach and our defensive system or lack of one. Montagna actually said we will win games because we're a good football team.
I agree that the problem is tactical / coach / MC related, but that doesn't stop King's opinion being offered like a weathervane. If King coached he'd kill a team with mixed messages and backflips.
So he says we should flood back, rather than making rich play accountable footy by hanging forward?
I had this argument many years ago when fev wouldn't leave full forward. My argument was, why would you want him to?
To allow your opponent to make the ground smaller and flood forward? Nope. You need to open space on the rebound and you don't do that by sacking back.
Im no master tactician but in team sports you need to open the play and make the ground bigger when attacking, and you need to close the space and make the ground smaller when defending. That doesn't mean pull your forwards back though. In soccer they have to because of the offside rule. You can't pass to them anyway and it brings defenders up the ground rather than flooding back.
In footy when defending, you should have a get out kick on each wing and flank, and one at true Chf. This should make your opposition spread their defenders and cause some chaos. We seem to allow them to hunt in packs.
Why? We move the ball poorly. Its not a coaching or system issue. It's a lack of understanding among teammates. I think we need some consistency in selection and coaching more than anything else. Injuries are hurting this as much as anything else.
Stick with the system. It will work eventually.
The problem with all of the above can be solved, again, by having blokes who find a teammate when they have the ball.
You dont need to defend if you have the ball.
But this year, since last year, even my friends who are MCC members are not going to many games if any, yet we've been to several suburban games.
MCC have to pre-book tickets, which is not something they are used to. I am sure this has dropped a few off. It takes away the, I'll wait until the last minute and decide if I'll go, crowd
R1 v Tigs, they changed the capacity from 50% to 75% 2 days before the match, and then wondered why the ground was less than half full!!
I agree that the problem is tactical / coach / MC related, but that doesn't stop King's opinion being offered like a weathervane. If King coached he'd kill a team with mixed messages and backflips.
Correct. I am sure you could find a single piece of footage, from any club, from any game, to prove any point. King, grabs one piece of footage and then acts like that proves he is 100% correct on any opinion... Then rinse and repeat the next week
Correct. I am sure you could find a single piece of footage, from any club, from any game, to prove any point. King, grabs one piece of footage and then acts like that proves he is 100% correct on any opinion... Then rinse and repeat the next week
We are an easy target, there is so much footage to work with over a long period, he doesnt have to think too much its just there
waiting to be edited into his next rant. We often get beaten the same way with the same opposition players doing the damage and its very easy for him to prove his points and they are repetitive because so is the way we lose..
On another note, is it just me, or are the commentators getting even worse??
- Eddie - calling Levi "Levi Greenwood" twice!!
- Dwayne - "there is 5 minutes left in this last quarter, but based on how the last 2 quarters went, it could go for a lot longer".... umm, not sure thats how it works, Dwayne....
- Reiwolt - "Carlton were really good, there, at taking ground, though the use of legs"..... umm, do you mean, "running", Nick??
Milhanna.....there's a few cliches that have crept into the commentary vocabulary in recent years that absolutely sh#t me to tears:
1. "running on top of the ground"......as opposed to what?....underneath it.
2. "lower the eyes"
This is very good. Clever too.
https://www.footyalmanac.com.au/round-6-carlton-v-brisbane-three-out-of-four-will-never-do/
This is very good. Clever too.
https://www.footyalmanac.com.au/round-6-carlton-v-brisbane-three-out-of-four-will-never-do/
Really good read, thanks for posting
I was level 2 as well behind the goals and didn't hear anything like that.
If we had a Whatsapp group, I could send you a video of at least one said horrid supporter
Great post Fly....pretty much sums up what most of us have been saying collectively for a while now.
This is very good. Clever too.
https://www.footyalmanac.com.au/round-6-carlton-v-brisbane-three-out-of-four-will-never-do/
Spot on. Did not miss anything.
A lot of people gave Jones votes but his opponent Hipwood had a good game with 3 goals and to me that doesnt constitute Jones having a great game. I mark players both ways and especially with players like Cuningham its not just what they do its what their opponents did as well. If you look for players who won their positions then often the reading isnt as good as the stats they had and we didnt have many winners IMO.
A lot of people gave Jones votes but his opponent Hipwood had a good game with 3 goals and to me that doesnt constitute Jones having a great game. I mark players both ways and especially with players like Cuningham its not just what they do its what their opponents did as well. If you look for players who won their positions then often the reading isnt as good as the stats they had and we didnt have many winners IMO.
Jones was terrific I thought and without him, Hipwood would have kicked planty more. He destabilised him if nothing else.
Jones was terrific I thought and without him, Hipwood would have kicked planty more. He destabilised him if nothing else.
I guess I see it different, No 1 job for a defender is to stop your man and 3 goals is a win for the forward IMHO.
Hipwood might have kicked more playing on someone else but three goals is a victory given if all the forwards kick three then thats 18 goals and you dont lose too many games with that score.
I guess I see it different, No 1 job for a defender is to stop your man and 3 goals is a win for the forward IMHO.
Hipwood might have kicked more playing on someone else but three goals is a victory given if all the forwards kick three then thats 18 goals and you dont lose too many games with that score.
Fair enough, H kicked 4 on Darcy Moore and all the experts gave Moore the chocolates. Ill also add that as far as our defence/defenders go? Weiters and Jones have no issues, I can't speak as highly though for Plow, Doc, SPS (when he plays there), Willo et al.
Jones was terrific I thought and without him, Hipwood would have kicked plenty more. He destabilised him if nothing else.
Agree. Considering he's a fair player, which puts him at a disadvantage before the ball is bounced, I think he goes well more often than not. If he could eliminate (or significantly reduce) the howlers he would be AA IMO.
Agree. Considering he's a fair player, which puts him at a disadvantage before the ball is bounced, I think he goes well more often than not. If he could eliminate (or significantly reduce) the howlers he would be AA IMO.
He literally tried to hard sometimes, I find it hard to knock when you see someone give so much. That is, play the game like it means something. Ditto JW. The rest not so much and easy to knock.
Fair enough, H kicked 4 on Darcy Moore and all the experts gave Moore the chocolates.
Agree...mine is a practical more clinical viewpoint and what effects the result of the game, purists might see Moore and Jones games more as who won more individual contests and in that case award the points to Jones and Moore and I get that. IMO Harry did very well on the AA defender and I would class that as a win.
IMHO the forward has the harder gig, if he kicks 3 goals each week then thats 60 for the season and most of us would say thats a very successful years work.