Sook.
Good on him. Crowds were disgraceful and the AFL was too gutless or oblivious to act. Now Gil wants his bother to gush over Goodes and the AFL’s commitment to indigenous footballers.
Good on him. Crowds were disgraceful and the AFL was too gutless or oblivious to act. Now Gil wants his bother to gush over Goodes and the AFL’s commitment to indigenous footballers.
Crowds were disgraceful to figjam too......but he's a different colour so thats ok.
We also need to get around white men who are victimised for being white. Fair’s fair.
As Eddie Betts said tonight:
Respect the decision, unless you been racially abused you dont understand how deep it cuts (and continues to cut for the rest of your life).
As Eddie Betts said tonight:
Respect the decision, unless you been racially abused you dont understand how deep it cuts (and continues to cut for the rest of your life).
Perfectly summed up by Eddie yet folk will continue to maintain that the vilification of Goodes wasn't racist.
The whole SCG crowd booed Buddy Franklin the year before they got him.
Goodes didn't say anything.
As Eddie Betts said tonight:
Respect the decision, unless you been racially abused you dont understand how deep it cuts (and continues to cut for the rest of your life).
Agree with that.
Although, some of the rhetoric around him being booed out of the game is drawing a very long bow.
I remember Goodes last game against North Melbourne. It was a semi final, and he looked a long way off the pace, and I thought he was very much done with footy.
The only thing I cannot quantify about him was how much the booing effected his want to be there, but even so, he didnt look like he could continue at the level anyway. He was almost 36 when he retired.
There aren't too many that go on for that long and remain at a high level.
Not all booing is created equally. Crowds boo for many different reasons. I suspect in Goodes' case, the shorthand phrase "booing" is about much more than just that simple sound.
Not all booing is created equally. Crowds boo for many different reasons. I suspect in Goodes' case, the shorthand phrase "booing" is about much more than just that simple sound.
Yes, I agree with most perspectives on this issue, but I find it hard to detangle the motives. It's clearly not true all those booing are racist, and it's clearly not true that all those booing aren't racist. It's clear Goodes is correct about racism, but it's clear Goodes is incorrect about the root cause of all the booing.
If Adam hadn't slid studs up into opponents, if he hadn't thrown himself on the ground free of any physical contact, if he hadn't directly denied doing those things to camera despite the obvious footage, would the situation have become as bad as it did?
I've heard it asserted Goodes used those "obvious denials" purely as a bait to flush out racism, but I think that is a revisionist claim that surfaced long after the other initial aspects of this debate.
Yes, I agree with most perspectives on this issue, but I find it hard to detangle the motives. It's clearly not true all those booing are racist, and it's clearly not true that all those booing aren't racist. It's clear Goodes is correct about racism, but it's clear Goodes is incorrect about the root cause of all the booing.
If Adam hadn't slid studs up into opponents, if he hadn't thrown himself on the ground free of any physical contact, if he hadn't directly denied doing those things to camera despite the obvious footage, would the situation have become as bad as it did?
I've heard it asserted Goodes used those "obvious denials" purely as a bait to flush out racism, but I think that is a revisionist claim that surfaced long after the other initial aspects of this debate.
I think Goodes has paid a heavy price for taking a stand on this issue, which is pretty much always the case when one person takes on deeply entrenched behaviours. I have no doubt he was deeply hurt and upset by these incidents, and if he was in it for himself I'm sure he would have accepted all the accolades that have come his way, rather than turning them down. Whether somewhere along the line he saw an opportunity to start a conversation about racism, and make it more than just about him, I guess we may never know.
I think Goodes has paid a heavy price for taking a stand on this issue, which is pretty much always the case when one person takes on deeply entrenched behaviours. I have no doubt he was deeply hurt and upset by these incidents, and if he was in it for himself I'm sure he would have accepted all the accolades that have come his way, rather than turning them down. Whether somewhere along the line he saw an opportunity to start a conversation about racism, and make it more than just about him, I guess we may never know.
I think money has a lot to answer for in this saga, back in the day, greats of all colours and creeds retired gracefully, now for a wallet full of idolatry every game they hang on bitterly!
Personally, I think he stained an otherwise stellar AFL reputation long before in the very end it became about racism, the last few years of his career were really lowest common denominator stuff on field, not conducting himself in a manner fitting a Rolls Royce of the game. Fans don't forget, and they aren't naivé and as easily led as some like to think or paint.
I fear now it's become more lucrative for Adam to be seen a certain way, instead of working at revision and reparation from the inside, he's become an activist. I'm not sure the motives remain so pure.
Not all booing is created equally. Crowds boo for many different reasons. I suspect in Goodes' case, the shorthand phrase "booing" is about much more than just that simple sound.
The issue about him being booed is multi faceted.
Motivation, racism etc is one of them in some cases.
Where it falls over though is his on field conduct and demeanor.
I think the indigenous celebrate their culture in ways that sometimes go against the grain.
I.e. currently, we have a be deadly and proud campaign.
The only time deadly is used in common vernacular is being deadly serious and being deadly is otherwise seen to be dangerous.
This campaign seems problematic to me but its on TV all the time.
Reverting back to Goodes for a moment, his celebration where he threw a spear at the cheer squad met derision from our fans. Why? Because he kicked a goal against us. He threw a spear at us afterwards to ram that point home. Of course our fans didn't like it. They booed.
Is that racist?
I dont think so. It was more than just a goal once he threw the spear its a psychological message. Oh I was just celebrating my heritage.
To simply state the reaction was racist and the action a celebration ignores the psychological message that goal scoring in sports sends.
As I posted when the booing of Goodes became a thing (no revisionism here), if you attend a protest because for you it means you can protest about a certain thing that annoys you but you find you’re surrounded by neo-Nazis, Proud Boys and nutters who are using it to push an agenda that disgusts you, you need to leave. Otherwise you are helping to push that agenda by swelling the ranks.
At least if you’re at a protest or a rally, you can hold up a sign to make clear what concerns you. But when you just boost the volume of booing, you don’t have the ability to separate yourself from the racists. And it’s just nonsense to deny that the ferocity of the booing and the way supporters of different clubs participated showed it had a very substantial racial basis. As I said back then, whatever grudge you might have against Goodes, separate yourself from the racists by STFU.
As an example of this, the racist far right likes to commandeer symbols that have had no racist element to them. The creator of Pepe the Frog has been dismayed that his creation is now a racist symbol. The OK hand gesture is now on the banned list given it’s now used to signify approval of far right groups (and a Jeopardy contestant was put through the mill after he used it innocently to reference his 3 wins). You can bluster all you want about your right to use words and symbols that have been co-opted, but that’s just ignorant. How many straight men these days describe themselves as gay bachelors?
We’ll expect St. Kilda’s Max King to be hounded from now on for successfully flopping to draw a 50 metre penalty that almost turned the game against Sydney. And I wonder why Darren Milburn wasn’t heckled universally for ironing Silvagni after he’d kicked the ball. And far from being hounded out of the game for sliding in and breaking Gary Rohan’s leg, I can’t even remember who was the culprit.
Reverting back to Goodes for a moment, his celebration where he threw a spear at the cheer squad met derision from our fans. Why? Because he kicked a goal against us. He threw a spear at us afterwards to ram that point home. Of course our fans didn't like it. They booed.
Is that racist?
I dont think so. It was more than just a goal once he threw the spear its a psychological message. Oh I was just celebrating my heritage.
To simply state the reaction was racist and the action a celebration ignores the psychological message that goal scoring in sports sends.
Yes I agree.
I appreciate those taking a purely anti-racism stance do not want to see it that way, but I feel that stance will only slow progress rather than assist, in this debate we should not use tactics that polarise, we should deliberately look for and use tactics that unite.
I see it as an opportunity missed, some may suggest it has been derailed.
We’ll expect St. Kilda’s Max King to be hounded from now on for successfully flopping to draw a 50 metre penalty that almost turned the game against Sydney. And I wonder why Darren Milburn wasn’t heckled universally for ironing Silvagni after he’d kicked the ball. And far from being hounded out of the game for sliding in and breaking Gary Rohan’s leg, I can’t even remember who was the culprit.
Firstly, Milburn was booed by Carlton fans until he retired and disappeared from view. I recall a game at the MCG a season to two back in which that highlight was played pre-game or 1/2-time and he was booed again long long after he retired.
Sorry, but there is a significant difference here about those examples and Goodes, of which Leigh Matthews is another prime example. When he retired Matthews did not deny the horrible unsavoury things he did on the football field, he acknowledge them, spoke of regret and apologised to fans and opponents.
Not sure if King has discussed anything yet, but I know Thomas publicly apologised to Rohan.
None of them stared down the camera and denied those events to fans that had just witnessed them!
That’s the point. Only Carlton supporters booed him. Yet in Goodes’ case, we’re told that supporters from across the AFL turned on him over incidents that you’d imagine would only aggravate supporters from the opposition team. And there are plenty of examples of players who were repeat offenders in various ways who didn’t attract universal hate, e.g. Luke Hodge.
That’s the point. Only Carlton supporters booed him. Yet in Goodes’ case, we’re told that supporters from across the AFL turned on him over incidents that you’d imagine would only aggravate supporters from the opposition team. And there are plenty of examples of players who were repeat offenders in various ways who didn’t attract universal hate, e.g. Luke Hodge.
Are you claiming Hodge isn't or wasn't booed? :o
In the dying years of his flagging career Goodes perpetrated many of those acts against all teams, one of the videos of him throwing himself to the ground in the absence of contact is against Carlton, I think he staged high contact from Justin Murphy who motioned to hit him, although this might not be a late career example! What did Goodes say to provoke that, we may never know, but the concept that Goodes is an angel is laughable, and the behaviour became much much worse in the final years of his career, partly I'd claim because he was rewarded by officials for behaving that way!
The idea we should tolerate unsavoury behaviour for the greater good is untenable, it will only serve to divide rather than unite. If you've done something questionable, unsavoury or distasteful, own it and move forward, do not publish a denial!
I started this thread. I don't like Goodes .. period. Because of his on field tactics where he very deliberately hurt people.
His skin colour had no bearing whatsoever on that opinion. I used the term "sook" because he is.
Is all you have to do, LP, is to show that 1 person booed Like Hodge for you to equate that treatment with Goodes? Or is 100 enough? It’s sophistry to compare the responses which were clearly at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to intensity and spread across different clubs’ supporter bases.
Hodge deliberately tried to ram a young opponent into a point post to hurt him. And yet he’s popular enough to have a cushy gig as a Channel 7 commentator.
How do you establish who is booing for racist reasons and who isn't ? Does such a question even make sense ? If 10,000 people are booing Goodes, do you ask for a show of hands as to which have racism as a motive ? Can you even tease out such reasoning ? 1000 people boo because every one else is doing it, 1000 boo because they don't like the Swans, 1000 because he stages, 1000 because of his hair cut................. If no one owns up to it, is it just a figment of Goodes' imagination ? Do people even have a proper way of connecting their thoughts, opinions, actions to racism ? Do the victim's feelings and opinions count i.e if he feels he is being racially targeted, isn't that enough ? If the field is part of his workplace, and he no longer feels safe there, isn't that in itself a big problem ?
Frankly, I don't think he's a sook, I don't think he has an overactive imagination, and I don't think he was bothered about boing in general. He feels that something changed when he started taking more of a stand and becoming more outspoken on this issue, and I'm inclined to believe him. When you have McGuire making his King Kong comments, and you have people of Facebook making racist comments after his appearance in a David Jones campaign, you figure he has a point.
That’s the point. Only Carlton supporters booed him. Yet in Goodes’ case, we’re told that supporters from across the AFL turned on him over incidents that you’d imagine would only aggravate supporters from the opposition team. And there are plenty of examples of players who were repeat offenders in various ways who didn’t attract universal hate, e.g. Luke Hodge.
Greg Williams was booed by everyone.
Paul, I’ve already covered that. If you join a mob when you know racists are driving it, you’re complicit in racism. It’s irrelevant if you’re motivated by something else. That racism was at the heart of this was always obvious.
Hodge deliberately tried to ram a young opponent into a point post to hurt him. And yet he’s popular enough to have a cushy gig as a Channel 7 commentator.
They'd have Goodes commentating by now as well but he knocked the offers back!
He's not been treated harshly by the industry, his standing apart is his choice, the vast bulk of the industry would stand besides him but he's chosen to distance himself. He has chosen a separatist path.
That would have been interesting. If the crowd had started booing him while commentating, I’m sure that would only be because they remembered some occasion he took a dive.
Is all you have to do, LP, is to show that 1 person booed Like Hodge for you to equate that treatment with Goodes? Or is 100 enough? It’s sophistry to compare the responses which were clearly at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to intensity and spread across different clubs’ supporter bases.
I think you deny the behaviour of football fans in general to suit the political debate.
You comment like you've never been to a game. Tony Lockett, Crackers Keenan, Neil Blame, Wayne Johnston, Jim Buckley, Kevin Sheedy and any other number of eternal AFL villains say hello!
What started as a normal feature of AFL play, became much much worse because of Goodes actions and reactions not in spite of them.
Hodge was a hard man of AFL, but would he have even dared to deny his on field actions in the public media? A great part of the crowd's initial booing of Goodes was the crowd calling his on field behaviour bullcrap, long long before he made it about race!
Paul, I’ve already covered that. If you join a mob when you know racists are driving it, you’re complicit in racism. It’s irrelevant if you’re motivated by something else. That racism was at the heart of this was always obvious.
I must admit, my feelings on this were motivated mainly by history and mainly by the victim's statements and feelings. Clearly, AFL/VFL indigenous players have suffered abuse over the years, and if Goodes is telling us that this behaviour is affecting him adversely and it is racially based, I'd be happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. To be honest, I think booing in general is pretty lame.
But I'm curious to know your basis for believing that racism was always at the heart of all this ? Maybe a stupid question........
BS. In the pantheon of AFL bad boys, Goodes doesn’t rate at all. If lack of remorse or denial was enough to inspire universal condemnation, Dermie would have endured a wall of booing every second he was on field. Remember when he tried to claim he didn’t mean to stand on Raydan Tallis’ head (among other clear “alternative facts”)?
And the fact that Goodes made it clear he felt there was a racist component in the crowd behaviour definitely should have made the “good people” in the mob reflect on whether enough was enough. For it to inspire a IDGAF attitude was reprehensible.
One of the best opportunities to reflect was when the 14 year old girl taunted him with a banana. If any of you took a 14 year old relative to the ground and they did that to an indigenous player, how would you react? I would grab hom or her by the ear and drag them out of the ground in disgust. Instead, the grandmother who sat beside her railed against the way he poor grandaughter had been humiliated by Goodes’ response. The Apple didn’t fall far from the tree in that family. Instead of the mob accepting that Goodes was being racially abused, it reacted by amping up the booing because Goodes had humiliated a poor (white) girl, even though she wasn’t carrying an “I’m only 14” sign on her.
Gimme a break with this Goodes brought it on himself rubbish.
BS. In the pantheon of AFL bad boys, Goodes doesn’t rate at all. If lack of remorse or denial was enough to inspire universal condemnation, Dermie would have endured a wall of booing every second he was on field. Remember when he tried to claim he didn’t mean to stand on Raydan Tallis’ head (among other clear “alternative facts”)?
And the fact that Goodes made it clear he felt there was a racist component in the crowd behaviour definitely should have made the “good people” in the mob reflect on whether enough was enough. For it to inspire a IDGAF attitude was reprehensible.
One of the best opportunities to reflect was when the 14 year old girl taunted him with a banana. If any of you took a 14 year old relative to the ground and they did that to an indigenous player, how would you react? I would grab hom or her by the ear and drag them out of the ground in disgust. Instead, the grandmother who sat beside her railed against the way he poor grandaughter had been humiliated by Goodes’ response. The Apple didn’t fall far from the tree in that family. Instead of the mob accepting that Goodes was being racially abused, it reacted by amping up the booing because Goodes had humiliated a poor (white) girl, even though she wasn’t carrying an “I’m only 14” sign on her.
Gimme a break with this Goodes brought it on himself rubbish.
Well said. Couldn't agree more.
The intergenerational image of the 14yo and gm actions, displayed the nuances of racism. In my experience this is a sample of what occurs in society as a whole. It takes generations to embed and will take generations to reconcile. We're making progress but must keep going until equality is achieved.
Every opportunity people have to understand the history of our traditional peoples is an opportunity to learn, grow, and change our attitudes and behavior.
BS. In the pantheon of AFL bad boys, Goodes doesn’t rate at all. If lack of remorse or denial was enough to inspire universal condemnation, Dermie would have endured a wall of booing every second he was on field. Remember when he tried to claim he didn’t mean to stand on Raydan Tallis’ head (among other clear “alternative facts”)?
Brereton was booed widely by many AFL fans, not always the same reason for each game, but widely, as was Hunt for standing on Betts hand.
To assert they were booed for for a single or the same reason at every game is an absurdity, just as absurd as to claim Goodes was only booed by racists.
Nice straw man argument there. Point to where I claimed “Goodes was only booed by racists” or was “booed for for a single or the same reason at every game”. I won’t bother cutting and pasting my actual arguments as they are clearly set out above. And nice little move there, changing the focus from racist acts to racists. That gets you a gold elephant stamp.
Instead of the mob accepting that Goodes was being racially abused, it reacted by amping up the booing because Goodes had humiliated a poor (white) girl, even though she wasn’t carrying an “I’m only 14” sign on her.
The bulk of the mob you accuse of booing in racism, pretty much everyone more than a row or two from the child, only saw a wealthy, healthy powerful AFL man point out a female child to a security guard, "the mob" had neither audio, context or transcript of the events that took place at the time. That all came after the fact, all they saw was an AFL Man having a child ejected by ground security.
Are you accusing "the mob" of supporting the child's abusive stance after they were made aware of the evidence?
From any distance that I saw that event, in the absence of other evidence, I'd be part of the crowd booing Goodes as well, fancy the big strong influential footballer singling out a child to be frog marched out of the stadium! Based on your want for corporal punishment as outlined in your ear shredding post, I suspect you would have booed too!
But all that comes long long long after the crowds started booing Goodes for other reasons, reasons related to football and on field behaviour and nothing at all to do with racism, most of it starting around 2011. It had been going on years before the McGuire incident.
The hawks were the first fans to boo him as they had a big rivalry with Sydney. He did a few dirty acts but it was more the fact he got off at the tribunal. The Swans upset the Hawks in 2012 and then stole Buddy a year later. They hated Sydney, their fans used to chant COLA at games.
Hawk fans booed him in the 2014 grand final as they had done before and then a few Mav types in the media started saying it was racist because of Eddie and the 13 year old girl.
I think Adam Goodes did some stuff on the field he wouldnt be proud of and in turn the public went with what they knew would be hurtful back and that was the booing with a good dose of racism mixed in.
I remember he went in first with his feet and took Josh Gibson out in one game and also I saw he had games where he disguised the odd sliding knee to the body or head when players were on the ground.
I dont know what was said or led to that behavior but Goodes became a little careless in his later years in how he treated other players and while players move on fans dont forget.
Was he lashing out because of what he was copping on the field verbally, physically , I dont know but it just seemed to me he was playing with real anger not just with the crowd but with opposition players too.
Its interesting with cricketers like Warner and Smith who cop booing now when they enter the field to bat....not to the same extent as Goodes did because cricket is more of a gentlemans game but never the less fans of countries other than South Africa also joined in the booing ie England and wont let either player forget the Sandpaper incident. Warner really collapsed under the pressure last Ashes series in England so booing can be be contagious, fashionable and can flow over to other teams/countries even though they have no direct involvement in incidents that caused the initial booing.
I'm sure half the people booing Goodes wouldnt even know why they were booing and just joined in to be part of the crowd because that is human nature to enjoy another human being tormented...sad isnt it.
I think Adam Goodes did some stuff on the field he wouldnt be proud of and in turn the public went with what they knew would be hurtful back and that was the booing with a good dose of racism mixed in.
I remember he went in first with his feet and took Josh Gibson out in one game and also I saw he had games where he disguised the odd sliding knee to the body or head when players were on the ground.
I dont know what was said or led to that behavior but Goodes became a little careless in his later years in how he treated other players and while players move on fans dont forget.
Was he lashing out because of what he was copping on the field verbally, physically , I dont know but it just seemed to me he was playing with real anger not just with the crowd but with opposition players too.
Its interesting with cricketers like Warner and Smith who cop booing now when they enter the field to bat....not to the same extent as Goodes did because cricket is more of a gentlemans game but never the less fans of countries other than South Africa also joined in the booing ie England and wont let either player forget the Sandpaper incident. Warner really collapsed under the pressure last Ashes series in England so booing can be be contagious, fashionable and can flow over to other teams/countries even though they have no direct involvement in incidents that caused the initial booing.
I'm sure half the people booing Goodes wouldnt even know why they were booing and just joined in to be part of the crowd because that is human nature to enjoy another human being tormented...sad isnt it.
I think that is a good balanced perspective of the circumstances, and yes it is sad.
If Carlton fans thought booing would get under the skin of say a Matthew Lloyd or a James Hird, we'd have done it in droves without hesitation, maybe we did try but they didn't react and we'd wasted our time so it died off.
More than once I recall Plugger getting fed up with opposition fans behind the goal and trying to remove their heads with the footy, that only made the fans worse, skin colour had nothing to do with it!
Personally I couldn't stand him.
Incited and divided the crowd like no one else - running with a pretend spear towards an opposition losing cheer squad is going to get a reaction regardless of your skin colour or the meaning behind it and then in typical righteous fashion he is offended when booed and played the race card till after he retired. Gimme a break
Goodes rarely if ever complimented the AFL for providing him with the lifestyle he likely currently still reaps the benefits from - nope he only ever discussed the negative side of the industry and his lack of appreciation of any thing positive the industry gave him is IMO another reason the average fan dislikes him.
Personally I couldn't stand him.
Incited and divided the crowd like no one else - running with a pretend spear towards an opposition losing cheer squad is going to get a reaction regardless of your skin colour or the meaning behind it and then in typical righteous fashion he is offended when booed and played the race card till after he retired. Gimme a break
Goodes rarely if ever complimented the AFL for providing him with the lifestyle he likely currently still reaps the benefits from - nope he only ever discussed the negative side of the industry and his lack of appreciation of any thing positive the industry gave him is IMO another reason the average fan dislikes him.
I am sure Goodes, like everyone, has done things he regrets and would take them back if he could. But the racial vilification he has suffered on and off the field, which has deeply affected him, cannot be questioned. Many will debate whether the booing was racially motivated or not but to me that's not the central issue.
Harry O'Brien's own team mates used to call him chimp but he didn't get any support from anyone.
Harry O'Brien's own team mates used to call him chimp but he didn't get any support from anyone.
Apparently he himself called himself Chimp.
Either way its pretty abhorrent.
My surname is pretty long. I got nicknamed by the 12th man cab driver as parts of that name are in my surname (and first name).
For those who dont know or remember:
Theo"farken"opoulos.
Thats what I was called in high school. You know what the other Greeks copped? Various other things, but there was a delivery style that changed it, and not everyone delivered it either, but to the average Joe, it might have been racist, but that's being an Australian for you.
Maybe that was racist. That didnt bother me anywhere near as much as being called a fat, greasy smelly wog.
My surname in 5 letters long and as Anglo-Saxon as you can get: Beare. Pronounced liked the animal, although most people get it wrong. The things I copped for that! Particularly as I was overweight as a child.
Things were like that in those days, and things haven't changed that much today. I grew a relatively thick skin, and led the clowns in the direction I preferred: "There's a Beare in There! And a chair as well!"
Maybe I don't know what it is like to be a 'black fella'. But I do know what it is like to be abused by idiots. I would not have knocked back an honour like that. I would feel vindicated.
While I didn't boo Adam Goodes more than about twice, it was never racist for me. I didn't like him because he was a hypocrite. And he remains one.
There were times when he actively hid behind his aboriginality, using it to shield from criticism that he deserved. He used it at the tribunal. But when things the other way, he was the first to shout 'racist'.
Nor did it stop him using racist language at others, just because they not black.
Similarly when it came to his slide tackles. he was the first to complain for anything done to him or his teammates, yet he did things that were designed to injure.
I have a lot of respect for people like Barry Cable, Syd Jackson and Eddie Betts, who were abused verbally most unfairly, yet did not retaliate with bile. They copped it and moved on, to be champions in spite of everything they were subjected to. They were not hypocritical. When I hear some of the stories that Eddie tells I must admit that I am horrified. They were true to themselves and would definitely not have forgone an honour like being a Hall of Famer.
I can remember only one time when Syd hid behind his ethnicity. He was involved in a fight in the 2nd semi final and was let off because he said he had been racially abused. He copped a lot of racial abuse that day, just not from the player he hit. He told a porkie pie and go to play as a result in the 1970 GF. He is not proud of that. He admits that publicly. I can't see Adam Goodes admitting that he did anything wrong. he appears to like being represented as a 'victim', rather than rising above it.
In another field, I am reminded of a certain 1st black President of South Africa. He suffered more racism that any aboriginal has ever done. He was locked up for years in conditions we would not keep an animal in. Yet, he did not seek revenge. He something else far more difficult. He may not have made South Africa into a Paradise, but he made it a much better and more just place than it could have been.
if I were Adam Goodes, I would look towards Nelson Mandela for a way to improve things. He certainly had more class than a man who rejects honours offered to him. He would be a bigger man to accept, and to make his point other ways.
Regardless of whether or not he should've knocked back the hall of fame honours. He will always be in the hall of fame to me.
First round induction into the Hall of Fame biggest wankers!
Nothing to do with his skin colour.
Nothing to do with his ability.
Simply to do with his actions and the way he carried himself......as a footballer.
He would sit quite comfortably with fellow Hall of Fame biggest wankers Stephen Milne, Darren Milburn and Ryan Crowley.
I have no issue with Goodes at all. No individual or organisation is 100% clean, but what he did took real guts. And he's still paying a price now.
Was a fan of his abilities as a player, he had great skills for a player his size but his personality was never one that grabbed me unlike say Eddie Betts who has also copped his fair share of racism but Eddie has always pushed through and kept his happy go lucky persona while dealing with the racist BS thrown his way.
I didnt dislike Goodes but couldnt warm to him which made it hard to understand his actions...his carry on with the very inoffensive Carlton group of supporters at the SCG was clearly frustration from previous games dealing with other idiot supporters but his war dance was uncalled for and only inflamed the situation and made him more of a target.
Eddie would have handled that differently IMO and played to the crowd like he always does and thats why he is such a respected and loved figure in the game.
I get Goodes is still bitter and its his choice what awards he wants to embrace or denounce...
Just to reiterate something here.
Why was he booed again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzkKqUoE5yM
Swan dive, then kicks out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b7QRl8aoRY
Hits behind play. Not a good look. Continues after hes done with that one.
https://www.afl.com.au/video/22461/goodes-hit-or-bad-acting?videoId=22461&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1409387137001
Now I have seen a lot of players booed across the journey. Thing is, they usually get booed for either being good (Judd) snobbing a team and going elsewhere (Treloar copped it for choosing the Pies over Richmond and saying that they were closer to a flag and had a better list), Ballantyne (for being himself, the guy was a bit of a pain) and Crowley (No one likes a good tagger).
The Richmond hit is a free kick irrespective of him making a meal of it. The Tigers have championed the face fend off. That needs to stop because sooner or later, someone is going to have a neck issue (someone from a team that isnt Carlton, Ed Curnow says hi) but play acting isnt really admired or liked in the AFL fraternity because thats what they accuse soccer players of.
The racism argument is often one sided. You are racist if you boo. You are not racist if you are proud of being deadly (to coin a phrase). Thing is, racism is racism. You can promote a race and not denigrate others and still be racist. I heard a rather racist comment from a black person. Despite empathising with black people, others wont ever understand racism unless they are black. Hang about, Im pretty confident Asian, and Muslim people cop similar or worse despite not being considered black. I am confident that "the wogs" of the community have worn and put up with a fair amount of racism. If you have ever been made to feel shame for being a bit different or from an ethnic group, then that is the text book example of racism at work. Now its racist to point the finger at others for simply being white and accusing them of being racist for taking objection to a persons character because they are black? No. I dont like that. I can call someone a flog if I dont like them. There are many walking and talking flogs in sport. I have seen Darcy Vescio make some comments on social media that similarly are man hating. I told her to be better than that. No need to pull men down to be a proud female.
The same applies to the indigenous, and multicultural communities. They are the only ones I have seen that consider myself to be a white person, because the white fraternity dont see me as anything but different. We are similarly rejected by all parties, and I for one see this new attempt to make everyone feel shame for what it is. Abject Prejudicial Discrimination.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
If we stopped labelling people (as Indigenous, european whatever) and started calling everyone Australian, guess what would happen to racism.
I didnt dislike Goodes but couldnt warm to him which made it hard to understand his actions...his carry on with the very inoffensive Carlton group of supporters at the SCG was clearly frustration from previous games dealing with other idiot supporters but his war dance was uncalled for and only inflamed the situation and made him more of a target.
Mainly this.
I remember the game, i still remember watching it. I remember we had not been going great (sounds familiar, again!) and then they were beating us - I've just looked it up - 51 to 10! he had a set shot right in front! He'd been booed the game before and his 'payback' was aimed at our tiny cheersquad up in Sydney... and then he tried behind it with oh it was an Aboriginal war dance celebrating my aboriginality and you're all racist for saying it was aggressive. GIVE ME A BREAK. He had pent up frustration and he took it out on a lowly opposition. pathetic.
vision - you tell me - is this good sportsmanship: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5-ZVXE-LGw
What they said at the time::
The dance sparked mixed reactions within the wider football community and on social media.
"Probably best not to do it," Denis Cometti said during the match broadcast on Channel Seven.
But Cameron Ling defended the move, saying players were entitled to celebrate.
"Provided its not any obscene, and that certainly wasn't, you can enjoy the moment," he said.
"Won't stop the booing, though will it?" Cometti replied.
Goodes' former teammate Barry Hall questioned the move on Fox Footy, while Hawthorn premiership player Dermot Brereton said the action was "agressive" while speaking on SEN radio.
"To actually run at somebody in a war dance... it actually signifies I want to be violent against you," Brereton said.
"I didn't like it. No good could come from it."
"I am all for Adam Goodes being Australian of the year, every Australian of the year has the absolute right, onus and responsibility to push his cause, but you don't do it in this manner."
But Cameron Ling defended the move, saying players were entitled to celebrate.
"Provided its not any obscene, and that certainly wasn't, you can enjoy the moment," he said.
Ling hates us, file that one away for reference next time you listen to Ling commentating our games.
If Goodes had done that against the Handbaggers, Ling would have been up in arms labelling Goodes irresponsible and aggressive and suggesting he gets an AFL please explain!
Mainly this.
I remember the game, i still remember watching it. I remember we had not been going great (sounds familiar, again!) and then they were beating us - I've just looked it up - 51 to 10! he had a set shot right in front! He'd been booed the game before and his 'payback' was aimed at our tiny cheersquad up in Sydney... and then he tried behind it with oh it was an Aboriginal war dance celebrating my aboriginality and you're all racist for saying it was aggressive. GIVE ME A BREAK. He had pent up frustration and he took it out on a lowly opposition. pathetic.
vision - you tell me - is this good sportsmanship: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5-ZVXE-LGw
What they said at the time::
The dance sparked mixed reactions within the wider football community and on social media.
"Probably best not to do it," Denis Cometti said during the match broadcast on Channel Seven.
But Cameron Ling defended the move, saying players were entitled to celebrate.
"Provided its not any obscene, and that certainly wasn't, you can enjoy the moment," he said.
"Won't stop the booing, though will it?" Cometti replied.
Goodes' former teammate Barry Hall questioned the move on Fox Footy, while Hawthorn premiership player Dermot Brereton said the action was "agressive" while speaking on SEN radio.
"To actually run at somebody in a war dance... it actually signifies I want to be violent against you," Brereton said.
"I didn't like it. No good could come from it."
"I am all for Adam Goodes being Australian of the year, every Australian of the year has the absolute right, onus and responsibility to push his cause, but you don't do it in this manner."
Imagine, all he had to do was run at the camera rather than the crowd and the whole situation changes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b7QRl8aoRY
https://www.afl.com.au/video/22461/goodes-hit-or-bad-acting?videoId=22461&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1409387137001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzkKqUoE5yM
Watch these. Actually watch them. Is it boo worthy??
I think so. I havent included the slide on Gibson. It looked bad, but the ball was more in play than it looked, but he almost pioneered the contact below the knee rules.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b7QRl8aoRY
https://www.afl.com.au/video/22461/goodes-hit-or-bad-acting?videoId=22461&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1409387137001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzkKqUoE5yM
Watch these. Actually watch them. Is it boo worthy??
I think so. I havent included the slide on Gibson. It looked bad, but the ball was more in play than it looked, but he almost pioneered the contact below the knee rules.
I saw him more than once slide into players with his knees while they were on the ground, no one likes getting kicked and
I can see why Thompson was upset. Goodes is also pretty quick to exit when its someone his own size as well and when they are not on the ground and an easy target. Its hard to understand why he would lower himself to these levels when he was such a talented player..
One thing you forgot in all of this was the scoreline.
Swans kicked their 9th. We had 1.
You really need to be celebrating like that when you are 8 goals up?
Do that in America and see how that goes down. He'd be shot!