http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/Carlton-must-voice-realistic-goals-to-members/64408
He emphasised that it has nearly been 15 years since the Blues were last competitive in a finals series which is a tough pill to swallow for a supporter base of such a historically powerful club.
“For Carlton to find itself in such a position now (is disappointing).
“It hasn’t been competitive in a finals series since 2000 and that’s a long time in the wilderness because they really haven’t threatened since then.”
He must have been on holiday in 2011 when we smashed the scum by 80 points and were rolled by the umps the following week with key players missing.
Have a listen to the audio.
http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/Carlton-must-voice-realistic-goals-to-members/64408
He emphasised that it has nearly been 15 years since the Blues were last competitive in a finals series which is a tough pill to swallow for a supporter base of such a historically powerful club.
“For Carlton to find itself in such a position now (is disappointing).
“It hasn’t been competitive in a finals series since 2000 and that’s a long time in the wilderness because they really haven’t threatened since then.”
Five games ago we beat the Tigers in a final at the MCG, good research...
http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/Carlton-must-voice-realistic-goals-to-members/64408
He emphasised that it has nearly been 15 years since the Blues were last competitive in a finals series which is a tough pill to swallow for a supporter base of such a historically powerful club.
“For Carlton to find itself in such a position now (is disappointing).
“It hasn’t been competitive in a finals series since 2000 and that’s a long time in the wilderness because they really haven’t threatened since then.”
Five games ago we beat the Tigers in a final at the MCG, good research...
To be fair I think by being competitive he means being a genuine contender.
To be fair I think by being competitive he means being a genuine contender.
Our 2000 finals series wasn't great.
http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/Carlton-must-voice-realistic-goals-to-members/64408
He emphasised that it has nearly been 15 years since the Blues were last competitive in a finals series which is a tough pill to swallow for a supporter base of such a historically powerful club.
“For Carlton to find itself in such a position now (is disappointing).
“It hasn’t been competitive in a finals series since 2000 and that’s a long time in the wilderness because they really haven’t threatened since then.”
Five games ago we beat the Tigers in a final at the MCG, good research...
To be fair I think by being competitive he means being a genuine contender.
Which is what he went on to explain... that we haven't been a bona fide threat since around 2000. And there would be no denying that.
I actually found myself agreeing with what Smith said. I think most of us could handle it if we actually announced that the club needed to rebuild and this year would use the year to see who can and who won't be a part of 2015.
Seems most of the better footy brains in the commentator world agree that MM is the man for the job but are those around him? He finds himself in a similar situation to Roos... but about 10 years his junior. Seems the new Pres will have his work cut out for him. Hope he's ditched any rose coloured glasses and is ruthlessly objective about our list, coaching, dev and recruiting.
http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/Carlton-must-voice-realistic-goals-to-members/64408
He emphasised that it has nearly been 15 years since the Blues were last competitive in a finals series which is a tough pill to swallow for a supporter base of such a historically powerful club.
“For Carlton to find itself in such a position now (is disappointing).
“It hasn’t been competitive in a finals series since 2000 and that’s a long time in the wilderness because they really haven’t threatened since then.”
Five games ago we beat the Tigers in a final at the MCG, good research...
To be fair I think by being competitive he means being a genuine contender.
Which is what he went on to explain... that we haven't been a bona fide threat since around 2000. And there would be no denying that.
I actually found myself agreeing with what Smith said. I think most of us could handle it if we actually announced that the club needed to rebuild and this year would use the year to see who can and who won't be a part of 2015.
Seems most of the better footy brains in the commentator world agree that MM is the man for the job but are those around him? He finds himself in a similar situation to Roos... but about 10 years his junior. Seems the new Pres will have his work cut out for him. Hope he's ditched any rose coloured glasses and is ruthlessly objective about our list, coaching, dev and recruiting.
sounds like mathieson
...and right on cue, Andrew Mac says to the media that he still expects the club will play finals football this year. Now this is exactly what Smith is talking about, these ridiculous expectations only embarrass everyone.
You've got this manager (Mackay) saying the above, and the CEO saying we'll be cutting deep into the list again at season's end... which certainly does not make a comment about being confident about our list - which doesn't support a finals appearance.
I wonder if our club is familiar with the term, 'mixed messages'. Any wonder we've stalled on 45,000 members and can't move. ::)
The season is over for Carlton make no mistake. Get games into the kids and find out who can and who can't. I couldn't give a flying you know what about any of that contrived rubbish that come out of that Club. Murphy stated on radio earlier "...it was a very disappointing night for the club. Going into the game they were quite positive and had been training well" FMD hate to think what would have happened if they weren't positive or didn't train well. Enuff tripe CFC. Careers are officially on the line. Don't think, Do!
...and right on cue, Andrew Mac says to the media that he still expects the club will play finals football this year. Now this is exactly what Smith is talking about, these ridiculous expectations only embarrass everyone.
You've got this manager (Mackay) saying the above, and the CEO saying we'll be cutting deep into the list again at season's end... which certainly does not make a comment about being confident about our list - which doesn't support a finals appearance.
I wonder if our club is familiar with the term, 'mixed messages'. Any wonder we've stalled on 45,000 members and can't move. ::)
Even MM talked about membership nos on his post game confessional today. ::)
What is evident today, is that The leader of the club is not a leader
He is a marketing cut out cardboard - a fraud
When it gets hot, the real leaders front the lights and mics
Jamo and carrots.
If the club had any balls, they would make the leader front and do it all
If he doesn't like it, he knows what to do
It is strange that Jamo and Carrazzo fronted the media and not Murphy.
Murphy was supposed to be a guest on SEN this arvo with the OX. Anyone hear him?
Murphy was supposed to be a guest on SEN this arvo with the OX. Anyone hear him?
Yes he was, usual tripe dished out though. All company lines blah blah. The worst thing is we face Melbourne this week where we will probably have a nice win and the club will paper over cracks again. I would rather another good team so we can really be exposed so we cant keep shovelling sh1te under the carpet.
It is strange that Jamo and Carrazzo fronted the media and not Murphy.
Carrazzo was also the one trying to gee up his teammates ater half time.
It is strange that Jamo and Carrazzo fronted the media and not Murphy.
Carrazzo was also the one trying to gee up his teammates ater half time.
Was actually at the resumption of play after 3/4 time but in any case, the game was shot. The majority went into their shells and didn't raise a yelp in the last.
Murphy was supposed to be a guest on SEN this arvo with the OX. Anyone hear him?
Yes he was, usual tripe dished out though. All company lines blah blah. The worst thing is we face Melbourne this week where we will probably have a nice win and the club will paper over cracks again. I would rather another good team so we can really be exposed so we cant keep shovelling sh1te under the carpet.
Cheers thanks for that JC.
Nick Graham was on too. Said that MM wants him to be more attacking, get forward and kick goals. He tends to get caught being a kick behind the play.
Seems most of the better footy brains in the commentator world agree that MM is the man for the job but are those around him? He finds himself in a similar situation to Roos... but about 10 years his junior. Seems the new Pres will have his work cut out for him. Hope he's ditched any rose coloured glasses and is ruthlessly objective about our list, coaching, dev and recruiting.
Geez mate, we need to be protecting the club from this guy, not letting him put more of his mates in place.
Seems everyone has been out in force today on damage control duty.
If that's meant to calm the supporters it's a bit of a fail.
To me that just makes folk jittery and adds to the feeling of crisis.
Seems everyone has been out in force today on damage control duty.
If that's meant to calm the supporters it's a bit of a fail.
To me that just makes folk jittery and adds to the feeling of crisis.
Absolutely, and it has the added benefit of treating supporters as fools.
Maybe someone should send Sticks and co a "Telegram" and clue them up on this new thing the kids are in to, it's called the internet and it has a bi product called social media. ::)
The club and it's various preprogrammed talking heads are only focused on one thing and that is selling memberships and hitting that magical 50k. It is blind to everything else and all actions are expedients designed to support that. If they ever realise that what supporters want to see is a base of a solid organisation with realistic strategies and action plans, plus the right people to execute those plans, then memberships will follow. They've got the cart before the horse IMO.
The club and it's various preprogrammed talking heads are only focused on one thing and that is selling memberships and hitting that magical 50k. It is blind to everything else and all actions are expedients designed to support that. If they ever realise that what supporters want to see is a base of a solid organisation with realistic strategies and action plans, plus the right people to execute those plans, then memberships will follow. They've got the cart before the horse IMO.
I'd agree with that.
All the talk for the next week will be about redemption......... playing for the jumper, pride in performance, embarrassed by last week, un-Carlton like effort.
It's all designed to get folk to fall in behind the club rather than to question what's got us here in the first place.
.
Geez I'll tell you what lucky we have Melbourne this week and not Freo in Freo or even Gold Coast up there. Could get ugly very quickly.
The club and it's various preprogrammed talking heads are only focused on one thing and that is selling memberships and hitting that magical 50k. It is blind to everything else and all actions are expedients designed to support that. If they ever realise that what supporters want to see is a base of a solid organisation with realistic strategies and action plans, plus the right people to execute those plans, then memberships will follow. They've got the cart before the horse IMO.
Gee Biscuit Man that sounds like the Play Book from the Hawks! :o
Geez I'll tell you what lucky we have Melbourne this week and not Freo in Freo or even Gold Coast up there. Could get ugly very quickly.
Freo in Freo would be bad, but Gold Coast in Gold Coast are not the awesome force to be deeply concerned about yet. They have a few missing this week, and it could have been the sort of team (if we had won) that would restore a bit of faith with supporters and had we lost the excuse would simply be about ability and talent rather than anything else.
Melbourne on the other hand is a bit of a lose lose for the club. We should be expecting a win and in our current state, we may just snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Either way the club cant really win. Beat Melbourne and thats what we should be doing. Lose, and there will be a Lynch mob at visy park on monday. I reckon we are quite scared about this game actually.
If it rains, beware...
The following week against the Doggies is as hairy and ask. We start 0-5 and there will be all sorts of strife and heads will definately roll.
@Thry
a. We just bl00dy well have to win, that is an absolute given.
b. Just as importantly is the manner in which we win. If it is done well and shows all the right attributes of character, then maybe we can start to look forward again with a minuscule scrap of positivity.
@Thry
a. We just bl00dy well have to win, that is an absolute given.
b. Just as importantly is the manner in which we win. If it is done well and shows all the right attributes of character, then maybe we can start to look forward again with a minuscule scrap of positivity.
Sums it up nicely. Pretty sure we will make a good account of ourselves.
OK which one of you works for the Carlton marketing department?
Seriously, stuff we post here turns up on the Carlton website or in the newspapers faster than a story about a politician being proven right!
I mean a web page on the club website listing a summary of Carlton in the news after pages and pages on here calling for realism in club statements. Sorry Carlton FC, but you cannot win, and you have completely missed the point!
Tell us something the newspapers haven't told us already, tell us something real!
I don't understand the hand wringing about this year's form.
The three teams who have beaten us all finished ahead of us last year until we got the free kick from the drug cheats, we finished four games behind Richmond and three behind Essendon and Port beat Collingwood in the first final last year then lost to Geelong by 16 points, they aren't shabby.
Realistically we couldn't have improved much over the summer and Judd is missing (he's still our best player IMO).
We're a middle of the road side or slightly lower, if the supporters and the club can come to terms with it we can start to make the changes that are required.
I don't understand the hand wringing about this year's form.
The three teams who have beaten us all finished ahead of us last year until we got the free kick from the drug cheats, we finished four games behind Richmond and three behind Essendon and Port beat Collingwood in the first final last year then lost to Geelong by 16 points, they aren't shabby.
Realistically we couldn't have improved much over the summer and Judd is missing (he's still our best player IMO).
We're a middle of the road side or slightly lower, if the supporters and the club can come to terms with it we can start to make the changes that are required.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
The fact is we haven't improved, if we had we would be beating teams that finished above us last year!
Deleted
I don't understand the hand wringing about this year's form.
The three teams who have beaten us all finished ahead of us last year until we got the free kick from the drug cheats, we finished four games behind Richmond and three behind Essendon and Port beat Collingwood in the first final last year then lost to Geelong by 16 points, they aren't shabby.
Realistically we couldn't have improved much over the summer and Judd is missing (he's still our best player IMO).
We're a middle of the road side or slightly lower, if the supporters and the club can come to terms with it we can start to make the changes that are required.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
Fact. We got our ar$es whipped in right royal fashion last Sunday night by a hated enemy and we showed no fight, spirit or pride. Instead we just lay down, cowered in fear and copped it. Hey, but nothing to worry about. ::)
I don't understand the hand wringing about this year's form.
The three teams who have beaten us all finished ahead of us last year until we got the free kick from the drug cheats, we finished four games behind Richmond and three behind Essendon and Port beat Collingwood in the first final last year then lost to Geelong by 16 points, they aren't shabby.
Realistically we couldn't have improved much over the summer and Judd is missing (he's still our best player IMO).
We're a middle of the road side or slightly lower, if the supporters and the club can come to terms with it we can start to make the changes that are required.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
Fact. We got our ar$es whipped in right royal fashion last Sunday night by a hated enemy and we showed no fight, spirit or pride. Instead we just lay down, cowered in fear and copped it. Hey, but nothing to worry about. ::)
Yep
We may disagree on what needs to be done...but I think the majority of folk, including those at the club, agree that something needs to be done...a plan for the future...because the Blueprint sure as hell didn't work.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
The fact is we haven't improved, if we had we would be beating teams that finished above us last year!
Posters here don't want to deal with facts. :P
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
The fact is we haven't improved, if we had we would be beating teams that finished above us last year!
Posters here don't want to deal with facts. :P
;D
OK which one of you works for the Carlton marketing department?
Seriously, stuff we post here turns up on the Carlton website or in the newspapers faster than a story about a politician being proven right!
I mean a web page on the club website listing a summary of Carlton in the news after pages and pages on here calling for realism in club statements. Sorry Carlton FC, but you cannot win, and you have completely missed the point!
Tell us something the newspapers haven't told us already, tell us something real!
I think that's what they're doing now - a brave 1st step, perhaps. It's unchartered waters! But good on them for have the guts to do it.
I doubt they can tell us anything we don't already know... we thought our list was terrific - hard nosed coach showed us it isn't - we've faced the fact we need to rebuild (but to what extent is still the question and maybe we need this season to find out) - need to cull last of the non-hackers - recruit better (positive signs of that already) and develop better.
Ps. Did work in marketing many moons ago - did alright actually, but hated it.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
The fact is we haven't improved, if we had we would be beating teams that finished above us last year!
Posters here don't want to deal with facts. :P
;D
technically, we were 0 - 3 last year this time
Agree with Blue for Life.
We have been middle rung or lower for some time. Between a "jobs for the boys" recruiting dept. and the compromised draft, we have gone no-where.
To me the MM hire was a man who desperately wanted to stay in the game, matched perfectly with a board living in the past and wanting a quick win.
It just a repeat of Pagan, a per-retirement lap of dollars for a last decade game plan.
Its a repeat down to the expensive indulgence of a coaches pet.
Carlton owes Mick nothing, and he has a worse record than Ratten.
My wish is for a board, coach and recruiting dept. who are living in the present.
Not so long ago we had a high-school principle coaching the reserves - in his spare time.
Carlton has still not made it fully into the salary cap + draft professional era.
Hopefully the picks we get this year after a 10-14 finish from a tougher draw, plus the better looking footballers from the last two drafts - can be the basis for a genuinely competitive side, supported by an upgraded board.
Mick can stay - he can coach, but only without the decrepit "boundary line" game plan.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
The fact is we haven't improved, if we had we would be beating teams that finished above us last year!
Posters here don't want to deal with facts. :P
;D
technically, we were 0 - 3 last year this time
i think that is a fact.
we thought our list was terrific - hard nosed coach showed us it isn't -
Thank goodness Mick came along and showed us how terrible our list actually is LOL
we thought our list was terrific - hard nosed coach showed us it isn't -
Thank goodness Mick came along and showed us how terrible our list actually is LOL
Yes he is a saint
technically, we were 0 - 3 last year this time
and the same people had the same hissy fit this time last year and Mick shut them up in September, well for 2 minutes anyway.
technically, we were 0 - 3 last year this time
and the same people had the same hissy fit this time last year and Mick shut them up in September, well for 2 minutes anyway.
Maybe we can produce a 4 quarter effort sometime to shut everyone up
technically, we were 0 - 3 last year this time
and the same people had the same hissy fit this time last year and Mick shut them up in September, well for 2 minutes anyway.
No doubt the 0-3 was an equivalent one. :))
and the same people had the same hissy fit this time last year and Mick shut them up in September, well for 2 minutes anyway.
We haven't shut anyone up in September since the '99 Prelim. ;)
technically, we were 0 - 3 last year this time
and the same people had the same hissy fit this time last year and Mick shut them up in September, well for 2 minutes anyway.
Maybe we can produce a 4 quarter effort sometime to shut everyone up
4 quarter efforts are overrated. How many games does a team win every quarter?
technically, we were 0 - 3 last year this time
and the same people had the same hissy fit this time last year and Mick shut them up in September, well for 2 minutes anyway.
Maybe we can produce a 4 quarter effort sometime to shut everyone up
4 quarter efforts are overrated. How many games does a team win every quarter?
I don't know, I didn't say win 4 quarters, just not play total rubbish for a half of football. When's the last time that happened?
Essendon - nope
Richmond - nope
Port - nope
Sydney - nope
Richmond - nope
Port - nope
... Can't remember before that.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
The fact is we haven't improved, if we had we would be beating teams that finished above us last year!
In that respect nothing much has changed, in what is classed by some as our more successful period under Ratten we rarely beat teams above us on the ladder, we haven't beaten Hawthorn since Moses was in nappies.
You can't butcher the National Draft like we've done for more than a decade and hope for success, it's just not possible.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
The fact is we haven't improved, if we had we would be beating teams that finished above us last year!
In that respect nothing much has changed, in what is classed by some as our more successful period under Ratten we rarely beat teams above us on the ladder, we haven't beaten Hawthorn since Moses was in nappies.
You can't butcher the National Draft like we've done for more than a decade and hope for success, it's just not possible.
We were beating top 4 teams in 2009 & 2010. Not sure how we lost to Hawthorn in a couple of games.
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
The fact is we haven't improved, if we had we would be beating teams that finished above us last year!
In that respect nothing much has changed, in what is classed by some as our more successful period under Ratten we rarely beat teams above us on the ladder, we haven't beaten Hawthorn since Moses was in nappies.
You can't butcher the National Draft like we've done for more than a decade and hope for success, it's just not possible.
We were beating top 4 teams in 2009 & 2010. Not sure how we lost to Hawthorn in a couple of games.
Fevola missed a sitter in one of them.
So as I said, nothing much has changed, we're still missing sitters.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-08/crisis-of-leadership-holding-carlton-back/5375148 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-08/crisis-of-leadership-holding-carlton-back/5375148)
Murphy's post-match comments on Sunday were predictable in their banality, saying the team "let itself down", calling the loss "embarrassing" and promising we will see "a very good response this Saturday".
It was also revealed the leadership group sat the rest of the players down and revealed some home truths in the aftermath of the Essendon loss.
But where was this leadership on the field over the last fortnight, when points and pride were actually at stake?
Murphy is averaging 24 disposals so far this season, and while that is by no means a disaster he is struggling to have a tangible impact on matches.
Gibbs was anonymous in the tight loss to the Tigers and as speculation continues over his future at the club, questions have been asked of his commitment to the cause.
McLean was dropped for the round three match with the Bombers, amid controversy over his decision to remain seated on the bench at three-quarter time after being subbed against Richmond (although he pleaded ignorance rather than indifference) - his form had been poor regardless of the bench incident.
Walker was irresponsibly suspended for the Tigers game after throwing Port's Angus Monfries into a fence in round one, and he was lucky not to get more weeks after collecting Justin Westhoff in the head in the same match.
While the other four - Henderson, Jamison, Carrazzo and Simpson - may set high standards on the training track, none were able to show a cool head against Richmond or inspire any sort of fight against Essendon.
How can the rest of the team be expected to significantly up their game if the men they look up to refuse to?
There is enough talent in this Carlton list for the Blues to be performing far better than they currently are - indeed only a few months ago Malthouse was of the opinion that a premiership was not out of the equation in 2014 - but a lack of fight and a lack of direction is crippling the side.
There is enough talent in this Carlton list for the Blues to be performing far better than they currently are - indeed only a few months ago Malthouse was of the opinion that a premiership was not out of the equation in 2014 - but a lack of fight and a lack of direction is crippling the side.
The rot starts at the top.v Sadly.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-08/crisis-of-leadership-holding-carlton-back/5375148 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-08/crisis-of-leadership-holding-carlton-back/5375148)
Murphy's post-match comments on Sunday were predictable in their banality, saying the team "let itself down", calling the loss "embarrassing" and promising we will see "a very good response this Saturday".
It was also revealed the leadership group sat the rest of the players down and revealed some home truths in the aftermath of the Essendon loss.
But where was this leadership on the field over the last fortnight, when points and pride were actually at stake?
Murphy is averaging 24 disposals so far this season, and while that is by no means a disaster he is struggling to have a tangible impact on matches.
Gibbs was anonymous in the tight loss to the Tigers and as speculation continues over his future at the club, questions have been asked of his commitment to the cause.
McLean was dropped for the round three match with the Bombers, amid controversy over his decision to remain seated on the bench at three-quarter time after being subbed against Richmond (although he pleaded ignorance rather than indifference) - his form had been poor regardless of the bench incident.
Walker was irresponsibly suspended for the Tigers game after throwing Port's Angus Monfries into a fence in round one, and he was lucky not to get more weeks after collecting Justin Westhoff in the head in the same match.
While the other four - Henderson, Jamison, Carrazzo and Simpson - may set high standards on the training track, none were able to show a cool head against Richmond or inspire any sort of fight against Essendon.
How can the rest of the team be expected to significantly up their game if the men they look up to refuse to?
When did the farking abc start ripping into football clubs? My hard earned has paid for this...stick to Peppa Pig and Q&A please.
technically, we were 0 - 3 last year this time
and the same people had the same hissy fit this time last year and Mick shut them up in September, well for 2 minutes anyway.
Maybe we can produce a 4 quarter effort sometime to shut everyone up
4 quarter efforts are overrated. How many games does a team win every quarter?
I don't know, I didn't say win 4 quarters, just not play total rubbish for a half of football. When's the last time that happened?
Essendon - nope
Richmond - nope
Port - nope
Sydney - nope
Richmond - nope
Port - nope
... Can't remember before that.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we've won 6 out of our last 17 games?
technically, we were 0 - 3 last year this time
and the same people had the same hissy fit this time last year and Mick shut them up in September, well for 2 minutes anyway.
Maybe we can produce a 4 quarter effort sometime to shut everyone up
4 quarter efforts are overrated. How many games does a team win every quarter?
Really? Whilst sides may not dominate or win every quarter, that certainly doesn't mean it wasn't a four quarter effort you can still put in for the entire game and break even or lose. I'm very surprised I even have to explain this to you TBH.
So when was the last time we put in a four quarter effort?
Posters here don't want to deal with facts.
The fact is we haven't improved, if we had we would be beating teams that finished above us last year!
In that respect nothing much has changed, in what is classed by some as our more successful period under Ratten we rarely beat teams above us on the ladder, we haven't beaten Hawthorn since Moses was in nappies.
You can't butcher the National Draft like we've done for more than a decade and hope for success, it's just not possible.
Now
that's reality.
Whoa there guys. From 2005 we have listed Murphy, Thomas, Kennedy (3 of the top 4 from 2005), Bower, Gibbs, Everitt, Hampson, Grigg, Kreuzer, Henderson, Yarran, Lucas, Watson, Docherty, Menzel and Cripps as Top 20 draft picks. 16 Top 20 draft picks from 9 drafts! Bower is the only one that has left the AFL and he still played 70 games. Kennedy, Grigg and Hampson have been traded, so we have 12 Top 20 draft picks on our list at present even with Gold Coast and GWS getting priority for 3-4 years! I still say it was the young player development under Ratten that has stalled our team.
Whoa there guys. From 2005 we have listed Murphy, Thomas, Kennedy (3 of the top 4 from 2005), Bower, Gibbs, Everitt, Hampson, Grigg, Kreuzer, Henderson, Yarran, Lucas, Watson, Docherty, Menzel and Cripps as Top 20 draft picks. 16 Top 20 draft picks from 9 drafts! Bower is the only one that has left the AFL and he still played 70 games. Kennedy, Grigg and Hampson have been traded, so we have 12 Top 20 draft picks on our list at present even with Gold Coast and GWS getting priority for 3-4 years! I still say it was the young player development under Ratten that has stalled our team.
Wouldn't you agree significant gradual improvement reflects as development?
Whoa there guys. From 2005 we have listed Murphy, Thomas, Kennedy (3 of the top 4 from 2005), Bower, Gibbs, Everitt, Hampson, Grigg, Kreuzer, Henderson, Yarran, Lucas, Watson, Docherty, Menzel and Cripps as Top 20 draft picks. 16 Top 20 draft picks from 9 drafts! Bower is the only one that has left the AFL and he still played 70 games. Kennedy, Grigg and Hampson have been traded, so we have 12 Top 20 draft picks on our list at present even with Gold Coast and GWS getting priority for 3-4 years! I still say it was the young player development under Ratten that has stalled our team.
Wouldn't you agree significant gradual improvement reflects as development?
PI2C - These top picks were/are talented players. It's the next level - after pick 20 that have failed to develop. MM has got it right. Bring in some talent from other clubs to fill the gaps and build with draft talent. I think Docherty, Menzell and Cripps will be really good for us. What I want to see is Giles et. al. develop alongside them.
Whoa there guys. From 2005 we have listed Murphy, Thomas, Kennedy (3 of the top 4 from 2005), Bower, Gibbs, Everitt, Hampson, Grigg, Kreuzer, Henderson, Yarran, Lucas, Watson, Docherty, Menzel and Cripps as Top 20 draft picks. 16 Top 20 draft picks from 9 drafts! Bower is the only one that has left the AFL and he still played 70 games. Kennedy, Grigg and Hampson have been traded, so we have 12 Top 20 draft picks on our list at present even with Gold Coast and GWS getting priority for 3-4 years! I still say it was the young player development under Ratten that has stalled our team.
Wouldn't you agree significant gradual improvement reflects as development?
PI2C - These top picks were/are talented players. It's the next level - after pick 20 that have failed to develop.
Jamison, Betts, Garlett, Simpson, Carrazzo were just some he developed that are still of great importance to the side.
Fair point, but all but Simpson were Rookie listed players with something to prove. I reckon they did a lot to develop themselves.
Fair point, but all but Simpson were Rookie listed players with something to prove. I reckon they did a lot to develop themselves.
Its a point I tried to make. It may have come across as too much of a negative on Ratten which is my fault, but it was clear to me that unless you must improve, under the previous developement regime, you didnt.
Which of our boys are better human beings for having been at the Carlton Football Club?
Who has developed leadership traits?
In Senior footy, what makes you stand up and say, gee he really has come a long way from humble beginnings?
The guys appear to still be making some rather elementary errors, that should be being coached out of them. Basic execution appears lacking, true comradery has not really been forged among the playing group.
I think of even Jeffy Garlett, and Mitch and they look rather similar to the first gamers that played back then against Richmond (and showed so much promise) yet you look today and they are invariably bigger, stronger, faster versions of those same players but not smarter versions of those same players.
Speaks for our leadership on the park as well. Perhaps this was a Laidler problem, where he would cover up others deficiencies because of being a smart or intelligent bloke and therefore rather than help someone learn how to do something, would hide their weaknesses?
Who knows for sure?
The reality is, that everyon is really able to suck our boys into doing things their way quite frequently and our guys on the park seem unable to really make any changes on the park.
I heard Dermott Brereton on the radio the other day, and he was talking about showing a guy a position and getting that player to tell him how that position should be played. i.e. if a player goes down, if the other players in the team understand the role of that player, you effectively can cover that player and do it easily.
How many of our guys do you think could actually achieve this if required?
Fair point, but all but Simpson were Rookie listed players with something to prove. I reckon they did a lot to develop themselves.
You're not being reasonable Jofo, you asked for picks outside the top 20 and I provided them. Now you're saying they developed themselves? Cmon man, seriously.
Fair point, but all but Simpson were Rookie listed players with something to prove. I reckon they did a lot to develop themselves.
You're not being reasonable Jofo, you asked for picks outside the top 20 and I provided them. Now you're saying they developed themselves? Cmon man, seriously.
Go through the list of any club and you will find plenty of rookie listed players or players taken lower in the draft who have played plenty of senior games, you provided four or five names over an 8 or 9 year period which is no big deal (I'd add Tuohy for what it's worth, maybe Bell but time will tell).
What's let us down big time are the players we've taken outside the top half dozen but still relatively high in the ND, almost without exception we have failed to spot talent.
Lucas, Russell, Bower, Hampson, Grigg, Browne, Austin, Edwards, Hartlett, Bootsma, Watson, Mitchell, McCarthy, only a couple of handy players among the lot of them.
Go back a bit and throw in Wiggins, Sporn, Livingston and a few others, it's a litany of failure.
The last good player we picked up low in the draft was Hoops.
But Jofo was attributing the failure to Ratts, not to the players drafted.
But Jofo was attributing the failure to Ratts, not to the players drafted.
In that case I disagree with him, it wouldn't matter if we combined Jock McHale, Norm Smith, Ron Barassi and Leigh Matthews and got the resulting hybrid to coach us, our list just isn't up to the best teams.
Malthouse is the man we need right now but the club and supporters need to bite the bullet and stick fat, it will take him at least three or four years.
I still think Ratts was a peanut of a coach by the way. ;)
Really good reading, Folks.
JOFO highlighted selection and development info beyond obvious high draft choices which really does stack up. I would add that I have seen a positive shift in our approach re drafting as evidenced at this early (maybe premature stage) by what I saw on Sunday arvo at PP.
B4L, spot on. Houdini himself couldn't get this group to become a Premiership threat.
And TURNIPS has also raised an important issue in other posts re the responsibility of coaching to have the group 'primed & ready' for the contest. The first half against the Tiggers and 117 minutes of the 120 minutes on Sunday night should have the playing group examining themselves and so should the coaching group.
Andy MacKay, who've I've been guilty of questioning (only based on the little I'd heard him communicate and the performance of his dept) was bloody terrific on the The Blue Print - best stuff from him I've heard and really applaud his candour and guts to give concrete info re failings. As 1 example, he pointed out that for the 1st half against the Tiggers Gibbs was ineffectual on his opponent (Delidio I think). Well, how come this was allowed to go on for to long...? Where was your head, Gibbs? What was the midfield and Senior Coach doing about this for an entire half? Nothing. Half time until a change was made? Took Everitt to shut down Delidio. Gotta think and act quicker in the box than that...
I still think Ratts was a peanut of a coach by the way. ;)
Yep
Definitely overachieved ;) ;D
Fair point, but all but Simpson were Rookie listed players with something to prove. I reckon they did a lot to develop themselves.
You're not being reasonable Jofo, you asked for picks outside the top 20 and I provided them. Now you're saying they developed themselves? Cmon man, seriously.
PI2C
Yes, I can become irrational when I'm losing an argument. :-\ But I think we have failed to develop the mid range talent in the drafts apart from Simpson. I think we are on the right track but it will take time now.
@Baggers
I agree mate.
@Baggers
Good points there.
The most important 'reality' that our club needs to understand with crystal clarity, is that we have been here before.
Since the early '90s we have put in plenty of games like last Sunday night. And then we come back strong with subsequent wins, and maybe even string together good wins - only to eventually return to this 'default/ordinary' position once the 'courage wind' has left our 'fickle/timid sails'. Members can only feel - conned again. Time to renew the sails.
Do we have what it takes to really change where we are now? Changing that means home truths… ruthless honestly. And ruthless honesty starts with me/self, inclusive of every position within the club. “What can I do better, much better… and what will it take?”
Too many of us, as positive and optimistic as we might be, are becoming justifiably cynical. We do not want to be cynical about our club and its people. We want to believe the hype. But we're not all d1ckheads and are no longer buying the marketing/Pr dept message. When you promise much and deliver FA over collective seasons, well, you get Membership stalling at 45,000. And this is a club that should have Membership at 75,000 plus (considering our supporter base and significant national profile).
So failure is very real at most levels of our club, except the CEOs dept... this dept has and is delivering financial growth big time. Well done.
What we want right now from our club (I suspect) is honest acknowledgement of where we really are and how the f*ck we got to this level of ‘averageness/ordinariness’. And although we can see very real evidence that our club is being way more honest with us than, maybe, ever (website/media acknowledgement & very real accountability) it will all amount to nought if our club does not act decisively and ruthlessly to remedy our 'ordinary' status. Strong change.
Only sustained excellence/success has credibility.
Our football club has been down, defeated and embarrassed for far too long. The only challenge for each member of our Board is, ‘do you really know what it takes to create success at EVERY level of our club and are you capable of being obsessively & ruthlessly focussed, no matter what, on creating a dynasty of success at the Mighty CFC?” Not a season of success. A dynasty of success… and if you do not know what that means and what it will require from you, then FO.
@ Baggers
BANG on Brother! Now mail it to the spastics will ya. ;)
They just need to do it. This expectation that they have to voice what they're doing so as to gain approval of 50,000 members is a complete contradiction and a sign of a weak organization lacking belief in their methodology. We get our chance to express approval or disapproval at election time. There is no need to voice anything -- they just need do it.
I paid my membership, I have voting rights. They can keep me in the dark if that's how they want to treat the people they represent but we'll see how long they keep their jobs for or if they do, their members. No doubt these guys have this attitude though.
I paid my membership, I have voting rights. They can keep me in the dark if that's how they want to treat the people they represent but we'll see how long they keep their jobs for or if they do, their members. No doubt these guys have this attitude though.
Seen that TV show..." everyone loves Sticks"?....half the rank and file would vote for Sticks and his crew regardless of the state of the club because its " Sticks"
You get mutiny at the AGM's and Sticks is trotted out, gets a cheer then everyone forgets why they are there....
I paid my membership, I have voting rights. They can keep me in the dark if that's how they want to treat the people they represent but we'll see how long they keep their jobs for or if they do, their members. No doubt these guys have this attitude though.
Seen that TV show..." everyone loves Sticks"?....half the rank and file would vote for Sticks and his crew regardless of the state of the club because its " Sticks"
You get mutiny at the AG';s and Sticks is trotted out, gets a cheer then everyone forgets why they are there....
No doubt this current blitz is just PR to keep the grumbling as low as possible but it's better than just keeping everyone in the dark. Also keeps rumours of the coach getting the arse minimal
I paid my membership, I have voting rights. They can keep me in the dark if that's how they want to treat the people they represent but we'll see how long they keep their jobs for or if they do, their members. No doubt these guys have this attitude though.
Seen that TV show..." everyone loves Sticks"?....half the rank and file would vote for Sticks and his crew regardless of the state of the club because its " Sticks"
You get mutiny at the AGM's and Sticks is trotted out, gets a cheer then everyone forgets why they are there....
I saw this first hand at a meeting at Mooney Valley years ago when Elliott put up Colin De Lutis as his successor.
De Lutis may well have been the right man for the job but the mood in the room was toxic and no one was buying anything Elliott had to sell by that stage.
Sticks got to his feet at the same meeting and delivered an "aw shucks" kind of speech in which he basically said he knew nothing about business or finances, which should have rung alarm bells coming from a board member, but the audience lapped it up.
10 years down the track and we're still wallowing in mediocrity, with Sticks as President.
Good bloke, legend of the club, but not the man for the job, just like Ratts.