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Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #225
This bowling group has shown on several occasions they cannot get the job done on the last day, especially Lyon.  Should have won the last two tests, but didn't get close in either on a spinning deck. 

Think Stokes in Ashes test as well.

They need to get a bit of snarl into the attack. 
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #226
Suck on that Langer ... duckhead.  If that's the catalyst for kicking his useless arse to oblivion, all good by moi.




Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #227
I am no cricket expert by a long way, but I LOVE Test Cricket. Don't watch the other stuff unless I'm desperate. Great result by India. Best effort I have ever, ever seen from a touring Indian team. Just kept producing. Tough, determined and so much better than our blokes. Even their 2nd stringers!
Given all of the above I do believe however we contributed a fair bit to the result by;
1. Bad selections
2. Bad coaching
3. Bad captaining
Our arrogance in the past was  tolerated when we had a multitude generational greats playing. Hell we were so good we used to rotate our bowlers between tests. Now I reckon there are about 5 players total who get a game.
Time to get rid of the deadwood and find more Greene's and Pucovski's
Still a great effort by India. Amazing. Wish I had of got on them in this last test.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #228
Don't know who the bowling coach is,  but should be sacked by 9.05 tommorrow.

Started with awful selections, compounded by awful bowling plans and poor execution of whatever half arsed plans were in place.   Seriously,  WTF line was Lyon bowling most of today? There was more than enough in that pitch for him to get the job done.   The others never found a dangerous length and they never hit the supposed cracks.

We'll never won't get trophy back in India either - doctored pitches and won't select the right side with a hope if winning.   Two spinners,  two pacemen and an all-rounder for starters. 
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

 

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #229
Congratulations to India. They deserved to win with their concentration and effort.

Now, Australia: where do I start? I think I said a lot the other day.
[1] Coaching Staff and technology:
I have no idea what our coaching staff do, except that Langer is the boss. Fair enough: I'm not going to bag him as he has worked hard turning us around after we imploded a COUPLE of years back. He also has a reputation for success.
However:
(a) We never seem to have done enough homework on opposition players. Our field placings looks nice and standard, but the ball generally doesn't go to our players.
(b) If there is a crack or ridge in the pitch, we can never seem to find it. Not even with GPS and pitch radar. Not for the first time, our bowlers have come up short on the last day. The Indians found the cracks and the worn patches. We did not. We didn't even appear to be bowling towards them.
(c) I do not know how much technology we employ, or use in team meetings and training. But we need to do more, so we can actually bowl to where opponents might be vulnerable. We don't do that enough.
Note this test, where we had no idea where to bowl to Pant, Washington Sundar, Shadoul Thakur or Pujara. We have improved against Pujara, as he didn't dominate this series, but we still struggle to get him out. Pant loves playing us as we bowl to his strengths, not his weaknesses. Against other countries, he can't get a game.
(d) Our bowlers do not appear to have a plan, especially when they aren't getting wickets. That is not just the bowlers' fault, but something we need to train to improve.

[2] Selectors:
It has been said that it is harder to get out of the Australian side than it is to get into it. There is a little too much truth in this for my tastes, particularly if the player comes from NSW.
(a) To put it simply, our selection techniques look old fashioned. We do not appear to select players on form. We do not manage our players, so they don't play themselves into oblivion. We do not select horses for courses. It might be good that players do not want to give their spot up, but that allows us to blood players and play the guys who are in the best form.
For example, Mitch Starc is a very up and down player who has injury issues. he is also very much a confidence player and, at the moment, his confidence is low. His pace has been fine, but where are his yorkers, one of his best weapons? Where is the movement through the air?
By identifying when he is in a down patch, we do not let him go back to the Sheffield Shield and find form. Instead we keep playing him and lowering his confidence.
If we went into the game with a stable of 4 - 6 past bowlers and select the ones that are going the best, we would be playing fewer guys who are out of form. And we do have some guys who are worth looking at.
Similarly with the batting. Guys fear losing their spot because they believe someone else who gets a chance might do better. If they were in a squad of 7 - 8 batsmen, they could be easily replaced and not have fear, as they are still in the squad. But it would allow us to mix and match and to play fit players in form.

[3] Sheffield Shield:
I quite like the Big Bash. It is quite entertaining and does help blood Australian players against the best going around. However, our test batsmen never play in it. Nor can our player easily come in or out of the test side when everybody else is playing limited overs cricket.
We should be having shield game going while at least 3 of the 5 usual summer tests are being played. That would give the selectors a much better opportunity to select the best in-form players available. The Big bash does not.
Also the Sheffield Shield is not getting the support it needs. We can only get test quality players by having guys playing under test-like conditions, and for their performances in that form meaning a lot more than it does now. At the moment, the Shield is sort of placed in wherever there is a gap in scheduling something else.
Mind you, one day cricket is also suffering from poor scheduling. It doesn't even get onto free-to-air TV, neither international or otherwise. Scheduling needs a lot of work, and maybe less international cricket. There is almost no time now between tests, which makes players struggle to back up. There is certainly no opportunity to find form during a test series for someone not travelling so well.

[4] Pitches:
This is also a problem in scheduling as much as anything. Putting a test in Brisbane at this time of year is not smart, as there is often considerable wet weather. The Brisbane test should held in November or early December, when conditions are at their best.
Similarly, Perth, best suited as the 2nd test in a series, when the temperature is not 41ºC every day.
Which brings me back to a topic I discussed a few days ago. Other teams generally prepare pitches that suit their team. Even England tries. So, why don't we?
India did not face a single fast, bouncy pitch on their entire tour, something supposedly in our favour. Instead there were games where the pitches suited India more than us. Note this one, which lacked the normal bounce. I've already brought up our inability to move the ball in the air and off the pitch, so I won't go there.
India no longer has the excuse to produce the poor pitches they did: they have lots of money, resources and ground staff. There is no good reason why they should not produce pitches up to our standard. But they don't, even though they actually have a decent number of quicker bowlers available. What do we get? Rolled mud that spins on the first day and never bounces higher than the stumps. Other countries do not have the money the BCCI has. I can understand why some of their pitches may be less than perfect. However, India has no excuse.
New Zealand generally produces pitches conducive to their attacks, no matter what that attack may be. We do not. That is little short of stupidity.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #230
I am no cricket expert by a long way, but I LOVE Test Cricket. Don't watch the other stuff unless I'm desperate. Great result by India. Best effort I have ever, ever seen from a touring Indian team. Just kept producing. Tough, determined and so much better than our blokes. Even their 2nd stringers!
Given all of the above I do believe however we contributed a fair bit to the result by;
1. Bad selections
2. Bad coaching
3. Bad captaining
Our arrogance in the past was  tolerated when we had a multitude generational greats playing. Hell we were so good we used to rotate our bowlers between tests. Now I reckon there are about 5 players total who get a game.
Time to get rid of the deadwood and find more Greene's and Pucovski's
Still a great effort by India. Amazing. Wish I had of got on them in this last test.

x2
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #231
Great final session to watch.  Great that India decided to chase the runs - meant the game was alive until the last couple of overs and that all possible results were still on the table.

Overall the series was a good one to watch/follow with no side out of a game, apart from the India brain fade in Adelaide.  Pity the pitches were so placid.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #232
I think that the bowling performance in Adelaide covered the fact that we were behind in basically every game and the chances of winning the series were actually slim.  Basically because we never picked the right side.

The side never delivered on the sum of its parts,  it was always making up for shortcomings, which left us chasing all the time.

We never had a successful opening pair,  Burns Warner Harris failed as openers, Pucovski rode luck and natural ability to post a score.  Why pick a half fit bloke off zero match play,  who's ego drove that howler of a call Alfie?

The middle order was very fragile and didn't build on what Smith and Marrus contributed (normally a recovery from a poor start) .  Green and Paine did OK with the bat,  but scores weren't pushed out to good totals.   We never had enough runs.  Lower order batting was also poor.

The bowling was patchy,  with bewildering plans in place and WTF lines and lengths employed.   Starc, going at 4 an over and not maintaining pressure was a real problem.   Needs to find the ability to swung the ball again or be replaced.   Lyon tried to be too cute with???  lines,  although Blocker's assessment of what constitutes a shot didn't help.   Note,  playing with the bat behind the pad is not a legitimate shot,  it's a bluffing tactic used in the subcontinent against spinners.  Green's bowling was very disappointing,  reminds me of Watson.   Straight,  fast and meh.  He's coming back from injury but I didn't see any bite.    Why weren't the bowlers rotated when tired, - looks like more Langer bloodymindedness, which I believe contributed much to this poor performance.

Our fielding, normally a strong point,  was exceptionally bad.  Paine's keeping was messy and poor and we have too many slow fielders lacking mobility who don't turn half chances into wickets - Head,  Puckovski,  Harris - they all look too chunky and need to improve their mobility drastically. Head and Harris are serial droppers.

Hopefully some good will come out of the post Morten,  but in reality we never put out a good enough team to be this mob.   Too many passengers.

DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #233
I think that we underestimated India and didn’t do our homework on the replacements, but what great depth India has!

They played brave cricket to go for the win and that let us in with a chance.  Sadly, our bowling tactics and field placings were lacking and hard to understand.  There’s a sameness about our bowling attack and Green’s inability to take a wicket didn’t help.

Integrity has become important since sandpapergate but, if it was applied across the board, Langer and the selectors would be lining up to hand in their letters of resignation.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #234
Green doesn't look fit bowling wise either, very slow stilted run up and I think his back isn't right to bowl quick or for long periods.
Paines batting is just ok imo, you wouldn't pick him as a batsman only like you would Pant, Dekock, Butler,  and his keeping has to be A grade to make up for it and it wasn't this series. Less said about his tactics, field placings either, new batsman need attacking normal fields not everyone on the boundary ie Pant and he does the same with Stokes.It's like he has given up trying to get them out but is waiting for them to get themselves out and when it's the big game changing moments you have to be proactive and make things happen which he doesn't. Having a 4th slip after edge after edge went through isn't rocket science either. Rahane plays with a angled bat which demands a full slips cordon, not a massive gap between 3rd and Gully you could drive a truck through.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #235
Congratulations to India. They deserved to win with their concentration and effort.

Now, Australia: where do I start? I think I said a lot the other day.
[1] Coaching Staff and technology:
I have no idea what our coaching staff do, except that Langer is the boss. Fair enough: I'm not going to bag him as he has worked hard turning us around after we imploded a COUPLE of years back. He also has a reputation for success.
However:
(a) We never seem to have done enough homework on opposition players. Our field placings looks nice and standard, but the ball generally doesn't go to our players.
(b) If there is a crack or ridge in the pitch, we can never seem to find it. Not even with GPS and pitch radar. Not for the first time, our bowlers have come up short on the last day. The Indians found the cracks and the worn patches. We did not. We didn't even appear to be bowling towards them.
(c) I do not know how much technology we employ, or use in team meetings and training. But we need to do more, so we can actually bowl to where opponents might be vulnerable. We don't do that enough.
Note this test, where we had no idea where to bowl to Pant, Washington Sundar, Shadoul Thakur or Pujara. We have improved against Pujara, as he didn't dominate this series, but we still struggle to get him out. Pant loves playing us as we bowl to his strengths, not his weaknesses. Against other countries, he can't get a game.
(d) Our bowlers do not appear to have a plan, especially when they aren't getting wickets. That is not just the bowlers' fault, but something we need to train to improve.


Kerry OKeefe was on this from almost the start - he has been long praising the Indian's analystics department.  They had a set field and a set plan for every Aus batsman.  You are right in saying we just had the SAME field for every Indian batsman - doesnt look like much homework.  Esp considering many of our coaches and perifery (ie Ponting) have spent so much time in the IPL - surely we could get some first hand intel on all these guys?

The one thing that jumped out to me on the Amazon doc, was when Langer bought in an analtyics guy for the Ashes.  a) Why the fck did he have to bring one in, why isnt there one on staff, b) the Analytics guy basically said "hit the top of off" - no sht mate!!,  c) they didnt really seem to take him seriously

How many coaches, paid how much, with how much time with the team, and we dont seem to have decent plans for each batsman????

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #236
The bowling was patchy,  with bewildering plans in place and WTF lines and lengths employed.   Starc, going at 4 an over and not maintaining pressure was a real problem.   Needs to find the ability to swung the ball again or be replaced.   Lyon tried to be too cute with???  lines,  although Blocker's assessment of what constitutes a shot didn't help.   Note,  playing with the bat behind the pad is not a legitimate shot,  it's a bluffing tactic used in the subcontinent against spinners.  Green's bowling was very disappointing,  reminds me of Watson.   Straight,  fast and meh.  He's coming back from injury but I didn't see any bite.    Why weren't the bowlers rotated when tired, - looks like more Langer bloodymindedness, which I believe contributed much to this poor performance.


Time to go back to Craig McDermott coaching philosophy - "pitch it up and let it swing".  Did we see a single aussie ball deviate in the air?  They are so concerned with banging it in just short of a length to dry up runs, they dont give it a chance to swing.  Green hoops it all over the place for WA, then pulls on the baggy green and is gun barrell straight.... im sure thats due to following the team rules and being to scared to pitch it up

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #237
Time to go back to Craig McDermott coaching philosophy - "pitch it up and let it swing".
T20 has killed off swing bowling, there is hardly a single kid going around who can get it off dead straight!

Scrambled seam is the new black, but it's a very boring colour!
The Force Awakens!

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #238
Time to go back to Craig McDermott coaching philosophy - "pitch it up and let it swing".  Did we see a single aussie ball deviate in the air?  They are so concerned with banging it in just short of a length to dry up runs, they dont give it a chance to swing.  Green hoops it all over the place for WA, then pulls on the baggy green and is gun barrell straight.... im sure thats due to following the team rules and being to scared to pitch it up
Our bowlers dont swing the ball like other teams, Starc does on occasions when he gets his act together but its more a hit the deck and seam it type attack which will probably do well in South Africa who have the same type of pitches and bowlers.
Your point is a good one though and Mark Taylor wants Sayers and Worrall to be considered when necessary with Starc to miss out. I think Neser or Abbott might get a game in the near future.
 Green is impressive but after Cummins and crew have bowled he looks like a medium pacer and I think the Indians viewed him as light relief. I wouldnt want to over bowl him or make him step up his pace as he looks the injury prone type and we need him for his batting. Maybe he can bowl 130-135km and concentrate more on swinging the ball and leave the bouncers etc the frontline bowlers.

Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread

Reply #239
T20 has killed off swing bowling, there is hardly a single kid going around who can get it off dead straight!

Scrambled seam is the new black, but it's a very boring colour!
Thought the new kids Shardul and Natajaran swung the ball well for India, the former looks a real player as he can bat and get his pace up to 140km as well. IMO the AUS pitches/condition are all about 6'6" bowlers hitting the deck hard and trying to intimidate the opposition and swing bowlers are more of a novelty. When banana bender bowlers like Boult and Southee struggle to swing it when they play in Aus who would want be a swing bowler?