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Re: Review

Reply #615
Wonder what they think if we win the next 2 as we will likely sit in the 8.
Dont think it will matter, reckon the decision will have been made and lets be honest we all know these big player/coach deals get done months in advance and its been a bit of masquerade IMO with this review.
Ratten had his coach killer game and now Teague has had is IMO, I wouldnt sack him but I cant see Sayers/Liddle letting the likes of Clarko slip through their fingers if they get the opportunity to nab him...

 

Re: Review

Reply #616
A new dawn has to start sometime... perhaps it is this year. We can hope.

That may be true, but professional organisations do not and should not be run like that.

I've never worked in the corporate world, so I can't say I really understand the corporate mindset - is this an extension of the trophy mindset ? Trophy home, trophy wife, trophy player, trophy coach ? If not, then I can only assume that these are people stuck in an atomistic, mechanistic mindset -the best players plus the best coach plus the best facilities etc. equals success. Well that's wrong. Modern science has made it clear that relationships between things are where it's at. Which is why other clubs have success and we thrash around looking for Peter Perfect.

Re: Review

Reply #617
Which is why other clubs have success and we thrash around looking for Peter Perfect.
I agree with you 100%, but you know why even if that is true I'd expect that the outcome won't change, just like circumstance didn't help Ratten.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Review

Reply #618
I agree with you 100%, but you know why even if that is true I'd expect that the outcome won't change, just like circumstance didn't help Ratten.

I agree. That the club will chase Clarkson hard is practically a foregone conclusion. It's really whether :
a. Clarkson wants to coach, and
b. whether he wants to coach us.

Neither of which seem very clear at this point.

Re: Review

Reply #619
Unfortunately results under Bolton and Mick were awful. Few wins, embarrassing hidings. Our culture and motivation is terrible but you couldn't run with that. We've had nothing like that right now, as frustrating as it has been. We have been a very competitive team, on the scoreboard at least, even if some of the on field efforts have left a bit to be desired. Could end up a Ratten to Malthouse type handover, thinking we had something better, which we have regretted ever since.

Results under a particular coach are about a lot more than just the coach's ability. It's not even remotely possible that we keep picking coaches with no ability. The various ideas thrown around (this coach is motivated by the wrong things, that coach is out of his depth, the game has passed him by, lost the fire in the belly etc.) have, when it comes to Carlton, all been discredited.

When judging our last 20 years, you can't pick and choose which coach sacking / hiring decisions are correct and which are not, based on whether or not you like the guy in charge. Teague's results are better because the conditions around him are better (Bolton did all the donkey work plus more list stability under Teague, plus better players, plus players who were too young under Bolts are starting to hit their peak) etc. The expectations on Teague were higher because the conditions around him improved.

As an aside, you'd really have to suspect the club is full of inbreeders when the two coaches who have had any kind of "success" are ex players.

Re: Review

Reply #620
I agree. That the club will chase Clarkson hard is practically a foregone conclusion. It's really whether :
a. Clarkson wants to coach, and
b. whether he wants to coach us.

Neither of which seem very clear at this point.
I'd say Coll are the front runner. Despite recent turmoil, they have been a stable club of the years, are arguably the biggest club in town and will be able to throw massive coin at him and are ready to appoint today if they needed to.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Review

Reply #621
Don't say I didn't warn you people... If it's said in a Whorethorn presser, take it with a grain of salt.  
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Review

Reply #622
I'd say Coll are the front runner. Despite recent turmoil, they have been a stable club of the years, are arguably the biggest club in town and will be able to throw massive coin at him and are ready to appoint today if they needed to.

Yet they have spoiled the apple cart big time with their salary cap.  If rumours are to be believed, the Pies highest paid player this season isnt even playing for them!!  AND they still have De Goey, and Grundie. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Review

Reply #623
I'd say Coll are the front runner. Despite recent turmoil, they have been a stable club of the years, are arguably the biggest club in town and will be able to throw massive coin at him and are ready to appoint today if they needed to.
Graham Wright is running Footy at Hawthorn, not sure that relationship was all that sweet when he left Hawthorn to join the Pies unless its all part of some big master plan.
Got to laugh at Maynard and crew hanging out with the excuse they want to see who the next coach is.....and of course fielding offers so they can screw more money out of the already bulging Pies cap.
Brad Scott was a former assistant from memory at the Pies and was well liked...IMO out of him and Clarko.....

Re: Review

Reply #624
Graham Wright is running Footy at Hawthorn, not sure that relationship was all that sweet when he left Hawthorn to join the Pies unless its all part of some big master plan.
The media can't have it both ways, they are still asserting the Filth initiated the Mitchell offer as a way of ultimately securing either one of Mitchell or Clarkson.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Review

Reply #625
Results under a particular coach are about a lot more than just the coach's ability. It's not even remotely possible that we keep picking coaches with no ability. The various ideas thrown around (this coach is motivated by the wrong things, that coach is out of his depth, the game has passed him by, lost the fire in the belly etc.) have, when it comes to Carlton, all been discredited.

When judging our last 20 years, you can't pick and choose which coach sacking / hiring decisions are correct and which are not, based on whether or not you like the guy in charge. Teague's results are better because the conditions around him are better (Bolton did all the donkey work plus more list stability under Teague, plus better players, plus players who were too young under Bolts are starting to hit their peak) etc. The expectations on Teague were higher because the conditions around him improved.

As an aside, you'd really have to suspect the club is full of inbreeders when the two coaches who have had any kind of "success" are ex players.

Results tell you alot. Bolton had 4 wins from his last 43 games. That's not donkey work, that is just a donkey. No fool in their right mind keeps a coach with a 9% record from his last 50 games no matter what our culture is like. That's just embracing failure.

Re: Review

Reply #626
Results tell you alot. Bolton had 4 wins from his last 43 games. That's not donkey work, that is just a donkey. No fool in their right mind keeps a coach with a 9% record from his last 50 games no matter what our culture is like. That's just embracing failure.

Lethal has believed for a long time that good players make good coaches. I'll give you a small sample of what Bolton had to work with : Mullett, O'Shea, Matt Shaw, Gorringe, Smedts, Palmer, Lamb, Sumner, Fasolo...........I could go on. Plus clearing out the junk from the Malthouse era, plus factor in virtually no leadership, plus 12-15 changes every season, with average list age getting younger every year, plus change CEO, change high performance manager, change director of football, plus losing Craig, plus clashing with Teague. Nobody is doubting the poor results, but you might want to look at the bigger picture to understand why.

Re: Review

Reply #627
You'd have to wonder how Hawthorn has started to leak so badly.

At any rate, there's no way Teague could be coaching at his best right now. Swirling media speculation, injuries, the Review, Clarkson's sudden availability - his head must be a mess.
I dont think Teague has anything to worry about, Clarkson will be a Coll next year.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Review

Reply #628
Interesting to hear some of the inner argy bargy that is allegedly going on about Clarkson's performance in recent years, the washup is that they think the list is better than the ladder position, and that Clarkson has been a bit off his game in recent years.

I wonder if that is post Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), it is not an inconsequential consideration, I believe stress is claimed to be a big trigger for a potential reoccurrence. I've also heard that it is a bit like Ross River Fever or Dengue, you always eventually get a second dose.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Review

Reply #629
$s ?
He gets a $1-1.5M free courtesy of Haw, Coll will throw the kitchen sink at him.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time