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Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #345
Not enough has come out about the English thing to classify it as a terrorist act.

Seems at this stage it was a disenfranchised loose cannon who had access to a gun.

As were McVeigh and Monis who are, quite rightly in my opinion, considered to be terrorists.  Of course, McVeigh had access to a bomb as well as guns (access to a gun is a given)

What if Mair had shouted "Allahu Akbar" instead of "Britain first"?

West Yorkshire Police have confirmed that they are investigating the killer's links to extreme right-wing groups.  Not that any such links will determine whether Mair is a terrorist; that's down to his motives. 

Mair has been charged with murder but not terrorism at this stage.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

 

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #346
Monis had been on the radar for his beliefs for a long time.

He was an islamist.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #347
As were McVeigh and Monis who are, quite rightly in my opinion, considered to be terrorists.  Of course, McVeigh had access to a bomb as well as guns (access to a gun is a given)

What if Mair had shouted "Allahu Akbar" instead of "Britain first"?

West Yorkshire Police have confirmed that they are investigating the killer's links to extreme right-wing groups.  Not that any such links will determine whether Mair is a terrorist; that's down to his motives. 

Mair has been charged with murder but not terrorism at this stage.

So far his only "link" to right wing groups is possession of literature - not membership of any particular organisations, and several including Britain First have stated they have never heard of him. He certainly could be called a murderer from what is known so far but the case continues.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #348
So far his only "link" to right wing groups is possession of literature - not membership of any particular organisations, and several including Britain First have stated they have never heard of him. He certainly could be called a murderer from what is known so far but the case continues.

That's not quite right Cookie.  A White Rhino Club blog post from Jan 2006 described Mair as "one of the earliest subscribers and supporters of S. A. Patriot".  Mair was also linked to the National Alliance (It seems that McVeigh was influenced by National Alliance literature).

Links to right wing, left wing, anarchist, religious, pseudo-religious, environmental or other groups is not a pre-requisite for terrorism.  While there isn't a universally recognised definition of terrorism, the use of violence or terror for political purposes is a common factor.  I have previously mentioned Monis and McVeigh and the Unabomber Kaczynski is another terrorist without links to any group or organisation who used violence and terror to pursue a political agenda.

Whether or not Mair is a terrorist should be determined by his motives.  The fact that he shouted a political slogan while murdering an MP suggests a particular motive but we won't know for sure until the legal process runs its course.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #349
@ DJC

One of the British Anti-terrorist squads are reported to be now working with the WY Police on this case. It will be very interesting to see if the killer was working alone or was part of a larger plot/conspiracy. His actual motive is not yet clear but from my readings elsewhere the backdrop appears to be a high level of social deprivation in parts of the north of England and an antipathy to the EU, which the recent campaigning for the referendum may have inflamed - which is in  turn a big worry in itself. Jo Cox was apparently a very active campaigner for the Remain group.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #350
@ DJC

One of the British Anti-terrorist squads are reported to be now working with the WY Police on this case. It will be very interesting to see if the killer was working alone or was part of a larger plot/conspiracy. His actual motive is not yet clear but from my readings elsewhere the backdrop appears to be a high level of social deprivation in parts of the north of England and an antipathy to the EU, which the recent campaigning for the referendum may have inflamed - which is in  turn a big worry in itself. Jo Cox was apparently a very active campaigner for the Remain group.

I'm sure there wil be many wanting to declare britain first a terrorist organisation..
 the implications of which are a little worrying considering a lot of these guys seem like fringedwelling troublemakers

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #351
@ DJC

One of the British Anti-terrorist squads are reported to be now working with the WY Police on this case. It will be very interesting to see if the killer was working alone or was part of a larger plot/conspiracy. His actual motive is not yet clear but from my readings elsewhere the backdrop appears to be a high level of social deprivation in parts of the north of England and an antipathy to the EU, which the recent campaigning for the referendum may have inflamed - which is in  turn a big worry in itself. Jo Cox was apparently a very active campaigner for the Remain group.

I really hope that he wasn't part of a larger plot/conspiracy  :(
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #352
Quote
The man charged with the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox has given his name in court as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain".
. . .

[The magistrate] suggested that a psychiatric report should be prepared, saying: "Bearing in mind the name he has just given, he ought to be seen by a psychiatrist."

Barking mad, terrorist, or a bit of both?
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #353
Lunatic and Terrorist are not mutually exclusive terms.
In fact one is probably a pre-requisite for the other.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #354
http://www.theage.com.au/world/troubled-quiet-macho-angry-the-volatile-life-of-omar-mateen-20160618-gpmip1.html

A long article if you want to take the time on it but a good profile of the life of the Orlando perpetrator Omar Mateen. Social disaffection seems to be a major factor but was he born psychopathic or did that develop as a result of his life experiences or a combination of both? He seems to have been acting alone but gaining inspiration from the terrorist activities of others such as Osama Bin Laden and ISIL. The activities of the USA in places like Iraq and Afghanistan also strongly influenced him. 
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #355
Lunatic and Terrorist are not mutually exclusive terms.
In fact one is probably a pre-requisite for the other.

Agree.

This term 'terrorist' has gotten way out of control. It's now used by opportunistic politicians world wide to manipulate through fear.

Bottom line is that terrorist organisations are just groups of angry, cowardly, disenfranchised, disaffected, mentally unstable zealots. But I repeat myself, zealotry and mental instability are really one in the same.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #356
Investigators Say Orlando Shooter Showed Few Warning Signs Of Radicalization, NPR.

Quote
Dina says that al-Qaida and ISIS-inspired attacks tend to follow a different pattern. She explains:

"We know that during the attack the gunman posted messages on Facebook saying he was doing this on behalf of ISIS. But officials have yet to find any of the precursors usually associated with radicalization. They've interviewed dozens of people who either knew him or had contact with Mateen.
"And they say that they've yet to find any indication that he became noticeably more religious, which is one of the indicators of radicalization. He still was going to the same mosque. The way he dressed didn't change. His relationship with his family didn't change in any way. And these are all typically warning signs that parents and friends and educators are told to look for if they're worried that someone they're close to is radicalizing."
She adds "this isn't science," but so far the signs of radicalization aren't there, which has led investigators to wonder whether the 29-year-old invoked the name of ISIS to garner more publicity for his deadly attack.

As with another article I linked, the key is that this guy was trying to make as big an impact as he could for his own egomaniacal purposes.  What better way to do this than to invoke the current boogeyman.  He could have yelled out Bloody Mary's name 3 times but that no longer carries any street cred.  Even 'Seig Heil!' wouldn't cut it when even Prince Harry frocks up as a Nazi for a dress-up party. 

HE wanted to cause terror, as did Julian Knight and Martin Bryant, but just like them it doesn't seem he had much in mind other than fame as the biggest, baddest mass-murderer that the US has produced.

Reminds me of The Wild One.  Girl dancing with one of the bikies: Hey Johnnie, what ya rebelling against?  Johnnie (Marlon Brando): Whaddya got?

[flash=200,200]https://youtu.be/_4NkkAQllfo[/flash]


Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #358
The polls were bad for Trump from the start but he defied them. People won't say that they support him but they just quietly tick that box when the time comes.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: US Presidential Election 2016

Reply #359
The polls were bad for Trump from the start but he defied them. People won't say that they support him but they just quietly tick that box when the time comes.

You mean they are bigots and racists but won't publicly admit it?

The Force Awakens!