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Re: General Discussions

Reply #1815
If you have a 12v / 240v inverter, you can use a 12v source like a lead acid battery to charge your EV enough to get it to a charge station. You could use jumper cables to run an inverter off the idling petrol or diesel vehicle, and the outback charge stations are often just diesel generators which have an integrated 240v inverter, coin or credit card operated of course, and which of course completely invalidates the carbon neutral use of an EV.

Just curious, because i have a foldable 200W solar panel which i use to top up my 2nd (and 3rd) batteries while i am camping. 1 is lithium.
My 2nd battery is hooked up to the car and charges while i drive and cuts off if it gets too low. It lives permananetly in my canopy.
The 3rd battery is encased in a cheap battery box that i pull out of the canopy and sit next to my camping fridge for days on end. Powers lights and my phone.
I've also got a Milwaukee charger that comes with a 12v cig socket that can charge up my tool batteries....which i use for lights, chainsaws, radio, whatever.

With that setup, even if overcast or raining, i can pretty much be self sustaining for....as long as i need to be. Recently i set up the solar panel underneath our gazebo (in the shade, while it was raining) and it was still getting enough sun to charge my battery.

I also have a 1500W invertor i can use to get 240v plugs if required.

So...if i can live outdoors with that setup, surely it could help me charge a car. Not sure what type of current draw they take, or how much power storage is typically on board, but to me it seems like a half decent alternative to hooking up to the grid.
Obviously, you could get bigger outdoor solar panels pretty easily to beef up the system as well. They are relatively cheap.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1816
Just curious, because i have a foldable 200W solar panel which i use to top up my 2nd (and 3rd) batteries while i am camping. 1 is lithium.
My 2nd battery is hooked up to the car and charges while i drive and cuts off if it gets too low. It lives permananetly in my canopy.
The 3rd battery is encased in a cheap battery box that i pull out of the canopy and sit next to my camping fridge for days on end. Powers lights and my phone.
I've also got a Milwaukee charger that comes with a 12v cig socket that can charge up my tool batteries....which i use for lights, chainsaws, radio, whatever.

With that setup, even if overcast or raining, i can pretty much be self sustaining for....as long as i need to be. Recently i set up the solar panel underneath our gazebo (in the shade, while it was raining) and it was still getting enough sun to charge my battery.

I also have a 1500W invertor i can use to get 240v plugs if required.

So...if i can live outdoors with that setup, surely it could help me charge a car. Not sure what type of current draw they take, or how much power storage is typically on board, but to me it seems like a half decent alternative to hooking up to the grid.
Obviously, you could get bigger outdoor solar panels pretty easily to beef up the system as well. They are relatively cheap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPTs_KOvtX0

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1817
Id like to see some more of his videos to get a better understanding of how serious he is with that as it appears to be one big piss take to me.

But he'd do a lot better if he turned his car around 90 degrees to face the sun rather than be side on to it.

...but at least it's somewhat plausible.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1818
Id like to see some more of his videos to get a better understanding of how serious he is with that as it appears to be one big piss take to me.

But he'd do a lot better if he turned his car around 90 degrees to face the sun rather than be side on to it.

...but at least it's somewhat plausible.
If you had the time to sit and wait for a charge, days, and if your next destination was close enough on fairly flat or downhill run, you'd have a chance. In that video the effective charge rate with four 100W portable SolarPV panels was several hours per kilowatt. That's several hours for a few kilometres of flat conservative driving, if you didn't need to transport stuff you could probably walk that far faster than waiting for the charge.

Let's say his portable SolarPV can give him 2Kw per day charging, ignoring the standby current consumption, that's 40 days for a full charge off an 80Kw battery.

Keep in mind, your off-road EV is going to be bigger and heavier than say a Tesla S, but even a Tesla S use about an 80Kw or 98Kw battery to get to full range. I read some reports the 4WD EV might use batteries as high as 120Kw to 150Kw.

Real world range depends on many things such as terrain, weather, regenerative braking, driving style, etc., etc.. Actually, I know people who have toured for hundreds of kilometres around the Blue Mountains in a Tesla and used only 40km of battery range through regenerative braking, but it was a carefully planned trip just to see if it was possible.
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1819
Anyone else effected adversely by those ferocious winds yesterday! We were lucky (in West Gippsland) to not lose power... though I was waiting for the lights to go out! However, internet is not much better than dial-up at present!

 Thought of you, David (DJC) when reports of 6 power towers being blown over in the Greater Geelong region tripped Loy Yang A!

As a humourous aside, I was outside with our dog (Doberman) when the wind and thunder hit hard... her hackles went up as she barked at the skies but when the rain came she ducked for cover!

We copped the wind gusts but the Bellarine didn’t have power outages.

As often happens, the rain cells passed to our north and south and we only got 0.5mm of rain when a decent soaking is sorely needed.

Some folk are still without power and it seems that they will be for some time.  The six towers on the Mooroobool-Sydenham line will take a while to replace.

The cost of such widespread outages, both in terms of infrastructure and cost to families, industry and primary producers must give cause to revisit underground powerlines, particularly when similar weather events are now quite common.

Our hounds slept through the storm.  The horse can be spooked by wind noise but he just turned his butt to the wind and continued chomping grass.

The neighbours’ vineyard has been copping a pounding from the wind and they are constantly repairing the bird netting.  I imagine their workload grew significantly.

Interestingly, even with Loy Yang and one of the largest wind farms off line, we still had too much power for the network and had to power shed.  The weak link is our vulnerable transmission and distribution infrastructure.

Here’s hoping folk get their power back soon … and governments starting thinking about weather proofing the system.




“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1820
Just to back up slightly Krudds, look up the world solar challenge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge

It’s been held every few years since the early ‘90s.
Solar powered cars start in Darwin and “race” to Adelaide, with the winners usually sitting on the speed limit most of the way for 3000km.
What originally started as freaky solar panels with wheels has become almost mainstream looking vehicles, so what you are proposing IS doable but probably not very practical with “a couple of kings panels and an old battery from the shed”
Let’s go BIG !

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1821
What originally started as freaky solar panels with wheels has become almost mainstream looking vehicles, so what you are proposing IS doable but probably not very practical with “a couple of kings panels and an old battery from the shed”
The whole battery for a Solar Challenge car is limited to 21kg.

A small EV like a Tesla S weighs 2200kg and the battery is about 600kg alone, batteries for a 4WD EV are likely to be twice the weight, power/capacity basically scales with weight.

A Tesla probably consumes more power than a Solar Challenger just by booting the cars computer!

The NT is selected for the Solar Challenge due to the long straight mostly level roads and plenty of sun, years ago I watched a talk by one of the competitors and he mentioned that the car took kilometres to gradually accelerate to full cruising speed because the motors are so low power. During testing he mentioned someone loaded the bearings with the wrong type of grease, they used steering column grease instead of the special wheel bearing grease, and it destroyed the whole vehicles performance. I suppose that is a side effect of performance designed around low friction and low aerodynamic packaging.
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1822
The whole battery for a Solar Challenge car is limited to 21kg.

A small EV like a Tesla S weighs 2200kg and the battery is about 600kg alone, batteries for a 4WD EV are likely to be twice the weight, power/capacity basically scales with weight.

A Tesla probably consumes more power than a Solar Challenger just by booting the cars computer!

The NT is selected for the Solar Challenge due to the long straight mostly level roads and plenty of sun, years ago I watched a talk by one of the competitors and he mentioned that the car took kilometres to gradually accelerate to full cruising speed because the motors are so low power. During testing he mentioned someone loaded the bearings with the wrong type of grease, they used steering column grease instead of the special wheel bearing grease, and it destroyed the whole vehicles performance. I suppose that is a side effect of performance designed around low friction and low aerodynamic packaging.

You do realise that the solar challenge route is from Darwin to Adelaide and there are plenty of steep grades on the route.  Bad weather has played a role in several challenges with vehicle being blown off the road and running out of power because of overcast conditions.

The Cruiser Class vehicles have no limits on battery size and are permitted to use non-solar sources for charging.  They must complete a 1,000km stage before recharging from non-solar sources.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1823
You do realise that the solar challenge route is from Darwin to Adelaide and there are plenty of steep grades on the route. 
Sure we get that, but it's nothing as a percentage of the total route, gradients on the Solar Challenge are like a chicane on a F1 track.

For reference, we were talking about the use of portable SolarPV to recharge / power a commercial EV, and I was commenting in context of @kruddler discussing Off-road / Off-grid applications.

The Solar Challenger Cruiser class is basically an open class being recharged at various grid or fuel power recharging centres, although they are great pieces of technology demonstration they are not that relevant to a discussion about EV with portable SolarPV recharging. The Cruiser class has been dominated by universities sponsored by big industry or big R&D entities some vehicles are worth million$, the GaAS SolarPVs used in that challenge are so expensive they are normally only used in space. Even in this open class, the cars are a fraction the weight of commercial EVs, about 25%.

btw. Those bespoke GaAS panels, that make 800W/sqm, they aren't 10x or even 50x the cost, they can be 500x the cost of silicon. The reason why silicon is dominant despite on average being about 50% less efficient than GaAS. GaAS is also used in semiconductors, the unit cost of GaAS devices even at the mass scale of transitors (FETS, etc..) is about 10x the cost of silicon.
The Force Awakens!

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1824
Just to back up slightly Krudds, look up the world solar challenge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge

It’s been held every few years since the early ‘90s.
Solar powered cars start in Darwin and “race” to Adelaide, with the winners usually sitting on the speed limit most of the way for 3000km.
What originally started as freaky solar panels with wheels has become almost mainstream looking vehicles, so what you are proposing IS doable but probably not very practical with “a couple of kings panels and an old battery from the shed”

I remember that stuff from the 90s and i'd hardly call them cars. From memory they are very much lightweight cocoons wrapped in solar panel. For aerodynamics and weight saving, they usually were 'piloted' by kids laying flat.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1825
I remember that stuff from the 90s and i'd hardly call them cars. From memory they are very much lightweight cocoons wrapped in solar panel. For aerodynamics and weight saving, they usually were 'piloted' by kids laying flat.
You are right they were nothing like cars, they looked like baby air gliders on wheels with a little cabin on the front and the back was like a wide wing solar panel configuration. The driver would have to be jockey size and would have boiled alive in such cramped conditions.....

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1826
Yet if you look at the cars now they do at least resemble cars.
They are after all, cutting edge technology demonstrations not retail vehicles.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1827
Yet if you look at the cars now they do at least resemble cars.
They are after all, cutting edge technology demonstrations not retail vehicles.
NB..With his clever marketing I think Elon Musk has created an expectation with his worldwide best selling cars that EV's have to have that futuristic look and a high tech name to go with it....My fav is The Cyber Truck that has both the look and name that makes you think you have stepped into the future even though I believe it already has a rust issue 😶.
https://www.motor1.com/news/708690/tesla-cybertruck-porsche-911-turbo-s-drag-race/
Looks like something out of a Mad Max film....

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1828
NT...With his clever marketing I think Elon Musk has created an expectation with his worldwide best selling cars that EV's have to have that futuristic look and a high tech name to go with it....My fav is The Cyber Truck that has both the look and name that makes you think you have stepped into the future even though I believe it already has a rust issue 😶.
https://www.motor1.com/news/708690/tesla-cybertruck-porsche-911-turbo-s-drag-race/
Looks like something out of a Mad Max film....

Agree it’s pig ugly.
Apparently it’s also RAM sized which disappoints me greatly.
Let’s go BIG !

 

Re: General Discussions

Reply #1829
If you want to see how an EV should look on the outside, at least in my opinion, do a search for some of Henrik Fisker's vehicles.
Fisker Karma
Fisker Revero

In fairness, Fisker has similar problems to Tesla with the odd vehicle randomly igniting unexpectedly, but that's all about making batteries not the technology.

Tesla promised the EV apparatchiks Self-Driving with interfaces that looked like an iPad, but it has never really eventuated and my understanding is they are still a ways off, a bit like Nuclear Fusion. Actually it appears the Self-driving stuff is going backwards with several early adopter regions now banning them after unusual accidents caused by Tesla, GM, Google and a bunch of others self-driving fleets.
The Force Awakens!