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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3135 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
LP you keep asking for data but if anyone puts up data that doesn't support your opinion you dismiss it. You do this with any topic on this forum.
@madbluboy‍
Elwood made an assertion deaths from suicide and other hospitalisations like drug overdose were up, it's far to ask for the source, I was hoping he'd provide it because I'd just been listening to a preliminary report that suggested the very opposite. But he didn't provide numbers just relayed opinions so I never got to dismiss any data he provided, because there wasn't any!

Opinions are not data, opinions are next to worthless because they are coloured by human experience and perceptions.

When that report gets formally published I'll link it here somewhere, it'll contain numbers on cases, admissions, arrests, etc., etc., that is data not someone's opinion!

I'm not dismissing the experience of people either, it's just that what happens in a location or on a specific shift might not be representative of the general trend, someone's experience can be generally unreliable to the global trends even if their observations are correct.

fwiw, I was hoping Elwood would publish or link something with hard numbers that contradicts what I'd heard, because I suspect such reports could well be political as he suggests. But to refute it you need hard data, not opinions.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3136 –
Only those with serious physical or mental health issues admitted for further treatment are included in any Govt data. In addition, clinical data from emergency departments (EDs) or primary health care services doesnt currently capture those presenting with intentional self-harm conditions. In cases of fatal drug overdose etc it will have respiratory failure as cause of death, unless its a crime or undetermined cause. A patient who is revived at the scene of an ambulance callout will not be admitted if they are considered to have recovered. They would have to admit themselves voluntarily.....so CoVid doesnt really have a heading when it comes to accurate stats.
Do you honestly think the Government would want data released that pointed to a massive increase in attempted suicides, drug overdoses etc under their lockdown conditions?
I'm just telling you what the people at the front line are dealing with and its not masses of Covid cases like in India etc, Covid wards in Victoria are empty but mental health issues are up.....and they dont all make the stat sheet.
You are entitled to believe the Government data but I'll go with the people at the coalface who I can trust...if the official you listened to is suggesting CoVid has reduced mental health stats and crime like you suggested I find that laughable....


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3139 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Only those with serious physical or mental health issues admitted for further treatment are included in any Govt data. In addition, clinical data from emergency departments (EDs) or primary health care services doesnt currently capture those presenting with intentional self-harm conditions. In cases of fatal drug overdose etc it will have respiratory failure as cause of death, unless its a crime or undetermined cause. A patient who is revived at the scene of an ambulance callout will not be admitted if they are considered to have recovered. They would have to admit themselves voluntarily.....so CoVid doesnt really have a heading when it comes to accurate stats.
Do you honestly think the Government would want data released that pointed to a massive increase in attempted suicides, drug overdoses etc under their lockdown conditions?
I'm just telling you what the people at the front line are dealing with and its not masses of Covid cases like in India etc, Covid wards in Victoria are empty but mental health issues are up.....and they dont all make the stat sheet.
You are entitled to believe the Government data but I'll go with the people at the coalface who I can trust...if the official you listened to is suggesting CoVid has reduced mental health stats and crime like you suggested I find that laughable....
Ignoring what is reported about the how and why, if there are more deaths it shows in the totals, you don't need any other piece of data except the count relative to the monthly historical averages!

Critics can't assert there are more ODs, suicide attempts and mental health issues while at the same time complain that the system is broken with slower response and longer wait time due to COVID, yet get a better outcome! That is the absurdity of what is being asserted, there is more of everything bad, but a better outcome because the number of deaths hasn't increased or has even dropped despite all these increased attempts and ODs!

Lots of people have made this assertion of increased deaths by suicide and ODs every lockdown, many on social media, many in traditional media, it has become part of the anti-lockdown mantra, but not one has shown that the numbers actually increase. If I recall correctly in the 2nd lockdown when these accusations were made the Bureau of Statistics reported we actually had less deaths versus typical historical averages, as well as lower crime stats and lower pollution levels.

I'm, pretty confident the total official death count is accurate, so where to............................?
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3140 –
As l read here I keep wondering when Pete Evans is going to pop up…
Let’s go BIG !

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3141 –
Interesting article in the Age today in which medical people note that the Covid response has crushed seasonal flu in Australia.

Quote
There hasn’t been a single flu death reported in 2021, and there were less than 40 in 2020. This compares to more than 800 in 2019, a particularly bad season.
There were just nine cases of the flu confirmed in the first week of this month, according to the Immunisation Coalition. So far this year, there have been just 60 notifications of influenza in Victoria and 32 in NSW. Queensland has seen the most cases – at 171.

I guess we have to say Covid measures have saved around 1500 lives that would have been lost to influenza. And a few people vying for the Darwin Award have been saved from themselves as well: fewer people falling off cliffs while taking selfies or having their heads splattered by trees while sticking them out of trains to feed pictures to their instagram accounts.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3142 –
Perhaps we should all "celebrate" after a "conversation" ... I'm sure Bandt and Fauci will be along to suggest we must "follow the science".   ::)

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3143 –
Quote from: Mav on
Interesting article in the Age today in which medical people note that the Covid response has crushed seasonal flu in Australia.

I guess we have to say Covid measures have saved around 1500 lives that would have been lost to influenza. And a few people vying for the Darwin Award have been saved from themselves as well: fewer people falling off cliffs while taking selfies or having their heads splattered by trees while sticking them out of trains to feed pictures to their instagram accounts.

Why don't we continue lockdowns in the future during peak flu season. We could save MORE lives then.

Given that the flu is kills more australians than covid.

While we are at it, lets reduce all speed limits to 30km/h. Lower speeds = lower deaths. Hell, lets make it 20, we'll save more!

There is a limit to how practical it is to saving lives.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3144 –
Sorry. I should have realised that only negative side-effects of the Covid response are to be considered. Let’s speculate about suicides instead.

You note I referred to side-effects. That’s because the goal was to reduce deaths and serious harm from Covid. And we’ve hit it out of the park so far. No doubt we’re all very happy about that.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3145 –
Quote from: Mav on
Sorry. I should have realised that only negative side-effects of the Covid response are to be considered. Let’s speculate about suicides instead.

You note I referred to side-effects. That’s because the goal was to reduce deaths and serious harm from Covid. And we’ve hit it out of the park so far. No doubt we’re all very happy about that.
If the goal is to reduce deaths and ignore whatever other effects might be occuring, then there is a job at the AFL in the rules committee for them. Unintended consequences mean anything?

As i said, if reducing deaths at the expense of everything else is all that matters, reduce the speed limit.....or ban cars altogether. ZERO deaths from vehicles!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3146 –
And that’s where the dramatic reduction in flu deaths comes in. It’s an unintended consequence which must be weighed against any negative unintended consequence. 1500 lives saved is a pretty handy offset in that regard, don’t you think?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3147 –
Sometimes these things are annoying at the start, and then just become habits that you no longer really think about. Speed reductions around school zones were introduced in 2001. There was of course the usual outrage about impracticality, inconvenience etc., but now it makes perfect sense. And speed limits for cars in urban areas have tended to come down, not up.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3148 –
I reckon if we kill everyone on the planet by lethal injection, we'll be more environmentally friendly, prevent all car accidents,  plane crashes, save millions of animals from slaughterhouses, eliminate cancer deaths,  flu deaths etc.

Best part is, Carlton will go down in history as having won the most grand finals.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3149 –
Quote from: PaulP on
Sometimes these things are annoying at the start, and then just become habits that you no longer really think about. Speed reductions around school zones were introduced in 2001. There was of course the usual outrage about impracticality, inconvenience etc., but now it makes perfect sense. And speed limits for cars in urban areas have tended to come down, not up.

40 zones still annoy the crap out of me and I'd love to see the stats on their impact on road safety.  Id wager minimal impact statistically.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson