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Topic: CV and mad panic behaviour (Read 433948 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5535 –
Which government?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5536 –
Quote from: kruddler on
I had to kick a guy of a construction site today because he wasn't vaccinated.

Initially he played the "but i've got my first jab booked in x weeks" and i felt for him, but it didn't change anything.
Upon further chatting, he ended up going into the usual spiels about dictator dan, how he wants to have kids some day and doesn't want his dna altered by the vaccine which has been 'proven' by videos he's seen on facebook etc etc.
Claims all pro-vaccine ads are paid actors and all the governments of the world are in the pocket of big pharma.

etc.

I'm not sure he ever did have his first jab booked in at all after hearing all that.

I spent a good hour with him chatting about the whole thing and trying to convince him that what he has heard via social media is basically nonsense. I got through a little bit, but an hour long chat is not going to reverse months/years of misinformation programming.

He was a good kid who is very confused.

I think the government needs to get on the front foot and debunk a lot of myths that similar people believe.


Exactly my point.  18 months into the pandemic and running commentary from the usual suspects but you dont see one proper q and a from epidemiologists or doctors, scientists on television, just Dan, the CHO,  and whomever else they roll out to talk. 

This leaves a vacuum.  One that gets filled by talk with stuff they interpret from a presser, which might be an error, or misquote or whatever. 

They have very much failed to have proper engagement with people about why there is an issue and instead have resorted to the stick in respect to getting vaccinated rather the carrot.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5537 –
They bring in an ICU nurse to talk about the horrible experiences of Covid patients and their nurses and anti-vaxxers go to town on her.

They bring in a long-Covid sufferer to talk about the terrible effects it has had on his life and anti-vaxxers dox him, accuse him of lying and being a paid crisis actor etc, etc.

I'm thinking anything the government does by way of education will of itself be seen as proof that the conspiracy theories are true. Why else would the government be lying, presenting crisis actors etc, etc.

There's the conundrum.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5538 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Exactly my point.  18 months into the pandemic and running commentary from the usual suspects but you dont see one proper q and a from epidemiologists or doctors, scientists on television, just Dan, the CHO,  and whomever else they roll out to talk. 

This leaves a vacuum.  One that gets filled by talk with stuff they interpret from a presser, which might be an error, or misquote or whatever. 

They have very much failed to have proper engagement with people about why there is an issue and instead have resorted to the stick in respect to getting vaccinated rather the carrot.



You must watch different TV Thry.  Dr Norman Swan is a regular on the ABC (TV and radio) and responds to questions from the punters.  Many other doctors, epidemiologists, immunologists, scientists, the team that does the modelling for the CHO, the Doherty Institute, the Garvan Institute, etc, etc are also regulars.

The thing is that the conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers and neo-nazis are deaf to science and logic.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5539 –
Quote from: DJC on
The thing is that the conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers and neo-nazis are deaf to science and logic.

For me this is part of the problem, the narrative that has been allowed to develop. Your post is very common now, have a look at the language - "conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers and neo-nazis", and this is demonizing those that feel different to yourself.

If you want people onboard, then you have to speak their language. You don't know their language. Many simply raise their voices, speaking louder and more aggressively expecting that will do something. It just alienates them more.  Name calling and being disparaging is not bringing them with you. Congratulations to all those that engage in it, you have contributed to the beginnings of a resistance. The disaffected and disenfranchised now have a place to call home.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5540 –
Quote from: spf on
For me this is part of the problem, the narrative that has been allowed to develop. Your post is very common now, have a look at the language - "conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers and neo-nazis", and this is demonizing those that feel different to yourself.

If you want people onboard, then you have to speak their language. You don't know their language. Many simply raise their voices, speaking louder and more aggressively expecting that will do something. It just alienates them more.  Name calling and being disparaging is not bringing them with you. Congratulations to all those that engage in it, you have contributed to the beginnings of a resistance. The disaffected and disenfranchised now have a place to call home.

After reading your post I went back to an article referred to by Mav a few days ago in The Conversation under the heading COVID vaccine hesitancy.  In part, it said:

"People who are hesitant tend to be suspicious of authority.........in many cases we've found that the vaccine hesitant are susceptible to misinformation.
Fuelling this may be a sense of marginalisation.  Vaccine hesitant people are a little more likely to believe that they are of lower social status.  Feeling that society doesn't care about them they are unwilling to trust what they are told by politicians and scientists."

I agree with DJC, and a consistent message explaining the benefits of covid vaccination both for the individual and society in general is delivered clearly by all state premiers, CHOs, medical experts, etc on a daily basis.

I don't think the message is the problem. To me  the problem is that it is not the message the vaccine hesitant want to hear.

I remember earlier this year when Fox News in the USA reluctantly declared Biden the winner of their election.  It was not the news its listeners wanted to hear and within a matter of days a third of them abandoned Fox and went to Far Right radical stations that continued to preach the nonsense they were used to hearing.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5541 –
Fox news called it marginally later but gave Biden a bigger winning margin when they did because they use different data. But yeah why don't you just make crap up.

Also why are we still going on about antivaxxers? NSW has over 90% and all the other states are following.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5542 –
Quote from: Mav on
Tom Browne says AFL sources suggest vaccinations won't be made mandatory in the AFL but there are only a few hesitants whose hands will be forced anyway as air travel will require vaccination.

and you won't be allowed in the venues.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5543 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Fox news called it marginally later but gave Biden a bigger winning margin when they did because they use different data. But yeah why don't you just make crap up.
No Macca got that right. IIRC, Trump was initially angered by Fox News calling Arizona for Biden before CNN or the broadcast channels and the pro-Trump nighttime hosts were angry the news/election team had undermined the Trump strategy of simply claiming the win (and we know that strategy would continue until Biden’s inauguration and beyond). There were heated phone calls between Trump’s campaign team & Murdoch and Fox with Donnie Jr trying to get involved too. The Trump team kept up the attacks on Fox, and Trump called out Fox for calling the election. The Trump fans turned on Fox and for a time it looked like NewsMaxx & OAN would benefit. I can’t see what you think was made up.

EDIT: Daily Beast has just published this: Trump Whines to Newsmax About Fox News Keeping Analyst Who Called Arizona for Biden.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5544 –
Good for them being angry but they called it. Fox's projections throughout were more more for Biden than CNN.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5545 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Good for them being angry but they called it. Fox's projections throughout were more more for Biden than CNN.
They(Murdoch News) were trying to stir up trouble, make it seems like the published result didn't match the exit poll data so the nuffies could claim a stolen election and rigged result.

You could be forgiven for thinking that Fox was trying to cause a riot! ;)

Even Murdoch's own family called him out, which is why Fox flipped and Trump then cracked the sads!
PS: The very same flip/thing is happening right now on climate denial, initiated by Murdoch's own family members, now Murdoch's former staunch supporters want to claim the silly old feck has gone senile
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5546 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Good for them being angry but they called it. Fox's projections throughout were more more for Biden than CNN.
But that was Macca’s point. The Fox election analysts gave an accurate assessment to their viewers (no one’s disputing that as Fox election analysts are highly regarded)  but rather than accept that information they turned to Newsmax and OAN because they told them what they wanted to hear.
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5547 –
We have some pretty smart folk on here.
We have fairly robust discussions.
We're pointed to a lot of research on a variety of subjects.
The Covid one is no different.

That's not a 'suck-up' it's what I truly believe.
I'm a bit of a mug when it comes to 'in depth' information on this topic.
I got vaccinated because the 'nice' ladies on the telly told me to...and I'm crap scared of getting covid.
So these comments may be full of holes and feel free to point them out.

As MBB pointed out NSW passed the 90% first jab yesterday.
As I mentioned in an earlier post my daughter had an initial booking for her first jab in November but was able to get it moved forward.
NSW would still be doing many first jabs.... so by December that figure would probably be up around the 92-93%
Having had the first jab, you would assume that nearly all those people would have their second and by the end of the year that will be 92-93% double vaccinated.

This rate of vaccination will almost certainly follow the same  trend in Victoria, and even the more hesitant states will also eventually follow.
It probably takes an outbreak to kick start things.

So given at least a 90%  uptake that leaves around 8-10% of folks that might not get vaccinated.
They fall into two groups

The anti- vaxxers...
These folks are zealous. They are as committed to their views as any pro-vaxxer. You will not change their minds. They wont get vaccinated.

Then there is the reluctant vaxxer...
These people are genuinely torn. They're worried about things like side effects, they believe the vaccines have been a bit rushed, they're cautious, and the uncertainty is fuelled by conflicting information they see on the internet. They may be of an age where they believe it's a 50-50 choice -'mild' covid or vaccine...but these people can be convinced.
The question is what's the best way to convince them.
spf and Macca made mention of the language before.
Notice that the Premiers and Health officers don't use harsh language.
It's not a blaming and shaming message.
It's almost a pleading to get vaccinated.
"Do it for your family and friends."
They're also adding benefits like additional freedoms, but it's all done with a positive tone.

So let's assume we eventually move a few of these people.
Suddenly that vaccinated percentage is pushing even higher.

Now the virus is being labelled as the disease of the unvaccinated.
So it stands to reason that those not vaccinated, like the rest of us, will eventually get Covid.
...and with the virus the unvaccinated (those that don't die) will get a degree of natural immunity from having had it.
Then we're all protected (to some extent).
The only real uncertainty is the burden long term health issues will place on the Health systems.

...and perhaps (perish the thought) a mutation that is vaccine resistant, and then we're back to square one.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5548 –
Just as an aside: Fox News is a bit like Two Faces out of Batman. Many members of the straight news division are highly regarded and their election analyst team is very good. But like a Transylvanian village, things get crazy when night falls. That's when they unleash "personalities" like Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Jeannette Pirro and Laura Ingraham. These on-air personalities go out of their way to say they're not journalists and journalistic ethics don't apply to them.

For instance, when Tucker Carlson and Fox were sued for defamation, the judge summarised the (successful) argument of the Fox News lawyers:

Quote
Fox persuasively argues that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive(s) with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes.
...
Whether the Court frames Mr. Carlson's statements as 'exaggeration,' 'non-literal commentary.' or simply bloviating for his audience, the conclusion remains the same - the statements are not actionable."

It's astounding that Fox would attack the credibility of its biggest star, but he isn't a news guy.

On the other hand, Chris Wallace, Shep Smith and Neil Cavuto are held in high esteem by journos and hosts on other channels. In particular, Chris Wallace, a registered Democrat, is news royalty given his father Mike Wallace was a big star and former 60 Minutes host and he's a feared interviewer. Shep Smith has now gone to NBC but it's incredible he spent the last 2 years at Fox after coming out as gay; imagine what the Fox viewers thought about that!

I'd expect the same would be true to an extent with Sky News over here (although I've never bothered to watch it). David Speers was a Chris Wallace type at Sky before crossing to the ABC recently. But then you have your Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt & Peta Credlin types who wouldn't claim to be "fair and balanced", the motto of Fox News. 

So, when I make disparaging comments about Fox, I'm not putting everyone at that channel in the same boat (but just about every nighttime host is on that plague ship). 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5549 –
I've a psychologist / psychiatrist friend who continually corrects me for the use of inclusive language, not because she doesn't understand what I'm saying or that she thinks I'm racial, but because many either won't understand, will switch off or will deliberately hear what they want to hear rather than listen to the points under debate.

But the use of inclusive language can be a tell, for example when a clear minority uses inclusive terms like 'we', 'they', 'us', etc., etc., and even 'you' or 'I' is often a sign they believe everybody is onboard with their position. That perspective might not be the fault of the minority, it can be a falsity promulgated by social media algorithms that reinforce the false perspective by delivering whatever makes the user click on more links.

Users actually have to actively and deliberately work against the algorithm to get a balanced perspective, and it's something law makers in many countries are now looking to change through legislation. I'm not sure that anyone can put the AI back in the bottle, but the best way to keep it under control might be to make it's masters accountable.

There is some irony hidden here, in that if traditional media acted this way the social media entities like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Google would explode with criticism!
The Force Awakens!