Skip to main content
Topic: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane (Read 10745 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #60
We just don't have skills and class to compete at this level.
Indeed. Until we manage to improve our kicking, our intensity all over the field and our decision making, we are going to also-rans. We gifted the Lions the game with our poor disposal, although the Umpires certainly had their share of Brisbane goals to their credit. Some truly appalling decisions that cost goals.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #61
The Carlton Is Slow, but The Pauly is Patient.

Sorry lads and lasses, but I don't see the doom and gloom. Sometimes, as the Dees have showed, all it takes is some tweaking and adjustments. The numbers make it clear that we're in the ballpark.

I asked Daniel Hoyne what the stats say our biggest problem is, and he said, "Getting hurt from ball use." Ou biggest problem is turnovers and decision making. When (and if) we get that sorted, we'll be a good team.

Now, back to our regular scheduled broadcasting.....................
Regular broadcasting might get stopped for a newsflash...coach sacked again

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #62
Walsh is boring Vanilla, Yarran was a flair player with greater talent but when you are a battling club with recruiting problems loading up on some boring Vanilla can be the safe way to go as Walsh has shown.
The lack of accountability with Rich is mind boggling .....you look at the Lions and their are five players who stand out as threats and they are Neale, McCluggage , Zorko, Cameron and Rich. You dont need to be a a coach or assistant with coaching certifications to figure it out especially when Rich has burnt us several times...

Fogarty went to rich early.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #63
I am afraid that it might be the time to change coaches. I do not like being out-coached week in, week out.

[1] We do not tag out the opposition's best players often enough.
It is hard enough in the midfield, where the ruck dominance often makes a huge difference. But, knowing that Rich sets up most of their attacking moves, we should have someone on him. Rich doesn't like it hard and never has.
Granted that Rich had a lot of disposals running out from the goal square, which is hard to stop, but around the ground he ran around on his own just too often. The idea is to kick to his direct opponent, so he has to really defend.
Melbourne showed tonight that Dustin Martin is human. Hibberd tagged him out of the game before he went off with concussion. Why can't we do that?

[2] Our disposal is terrible, yet what have the coaches done to improve it? It is hard to tell, but with our disposal NOT improving, the question looks extremely relevant.

[3] The attack on the ball that is now typical of Melbourne, Richmond and Port Adelaide is not shown by Carlton players. This is a coach thing. Until we work like those three teams do, we will not improve enough.

[4] Opposition teams do not fear us physically or otherwise. That is a coach thing, but it is also a recruiting thing. We do not seem to be making the right recruiting decisions. We want to have hard, physical players that put manic pressure on the opposition. That doesn't happen.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #64
Fogarty went to rich early.
Fogarty is a good tackler but IMHO is needed to perform more attacking roles, would have thought Curnow or Cottrell given the importance of Rich.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #65
Indeed. Until we manage to improve our kicking, our intensity all over the field and our decision making, we are going to also-rans. We gifted the Lions the game with our poor disposal, although the Umpires certainly had their share of Brisbane goals to their credit. Some truly appalling decisions that cost goals.
And I'll tell you what, if we didn't have Jones, they would have kicked a lot more. Being at the ground and watching him get to contests to effect a spoil or intercept the ball, its elite. He may get caught out sometimes when he leaves his man to get to another contest but overall, solid. I can see why Weiters said the after his B&F "this belongs to you also" referring to Jones.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #66
I think the thing that frustrates a few of us is not so much the skill errors as the intensity and pressure.
It was good in the first quarter.
It was exactly what was expected after the criticism aimed at the club through the week.
In the second quarter Brisbane matched and exceeded that pressure and it was pretty much the game done and dusted

I watched two Carlton sides today.
One had very little pressure applied to it and the result was a 12 goal first quarter.
The skills displayed were slick.
Passes hit their marks and good average players looked a million dollars.

In both games the pressure came from the opposition in the second quarter and we struggled with runs of goals against us.

Point is...if you come with intensity and effort you can make the opposition look like unskilled fumblers.
We often see the trick shots at training.
Attend training and the drills will quickly show you that our players don't lack basic skills
No way can that be duplicated under the pressure of 'real' match conditions.
But the side that comes with the greatest intensity will always look more skilled as they dominate the other team.


Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #67
Fogarty is a good tackler but IMHO is needed to perform more attacking roles, would have thought Curnow or Cottrell given the importance of Rich.
This may sound strange and I don't know if I can articulations this properly but his first few games were unbelievable I thought. He has since tapered off the last few games, it's as if he has been brought down to the Carlton level rather than playing his natural style of game. The first few games he was creating goals, run down tackling, its since waned. We have done an excellent job in knocking the Carlton crap into him (the saying used to be opposite once upon a time, when we recruited someone we would say "once we knock the Geelong crap out of him he'll be fine").
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #68
And I'll tell you what, if we didn't have Jones, they would have kicked a lot more. Being at the ground and watching him get to contests to effect a spoil or intercept the ball, its elite. He may get caught out sometimes when he leaves his man to get to another contest but overall, solid. I can see why Weiters said the after his B&F "this belongs to you also" referring to Jones.

I thought he got caught out a few times, the long Lyons kick to Hipwood who fecked up the pass but got a goal by accident wasnt great, Jones was nowhere near him. But being at the ground does give you a different perspective and you dont see the work off the ball either so I will cut Jones some slack given your close up observations.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #69
With Williams not having the impact in the middle at the moment, I'd be tempted to play him across half back. His kicking has been very ordinary so far, just not giving his team advantage, Either that or have him tag a good but not super-quick midfielder. I think he could do that well and get some ball while he is at it.

If we had another guy who be a ruckman, I would drop Levi. he hasn't had a good ear and has barely taken a mark. However, if an opposing team had 3 tall forwards, I would use Levi in that role. His ability to read to ball in the air in defence has been excellent.

SPS I'd play on a wing instead of Cottrell. He played some very good patches today, but isn't fast enough, and his disposal this year has been ordinary. Give him a chance to kick a goal.

Gibbo had a shocker. he didn't attack the ball like he normally does and he was ineffective wherever he played. However, he has some runs on the board and will probably survive. Unfortunately his lack of pace was really obvious out there tonight.

Jack Newnes also had one of his worst game for us. he made a lot more mistakes than he normally does and found the pace hard yakka. Again, he has a few runs on the board, which might save him. But a quicker player is a must in the longer term. Honey? I like the guy, but he goes missing too often.

Cunners had a very patchy game, where he was very good in patches and missing in others. he may be worth persevering with in the centre square, as he did some really nice things there.

People continue to bag Murphy, but he had a good game tonight. he isn't going to get 30+ possessions in a forward pocket, so we have to change out perception of him in that regard. He was a good option tonight who managed some good goals. Realize that he is what he is now, and 30+ possessions is not likely to happen.

Fog had a shocker. he had very little impact on the game and was knocked off the ball too easily.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #70
I think the thing that frustrates a few of us is not so much the skill errors as the intensity and pressure.
It was good in the first quarter.
It was exactly what was expected after the criticism aimed at the club through the week.
In the second quarter Brisbane matched and exceeded that pressure and it was pretty much the game done and dusted

I watched two Carlton sides today.
One had very little pressure applied to it and the result was a 12 goal first quarter.
The skills displayed were slick.
Passes hit their marks and good average players looked a million dollars.

In both games the pressure came from the opposition in the second quarter and we struggled with runs of goals against us.

Point is...if you come with intensity and effort you can make the opposition look like unskilled fumblers.
We often see the trick shots at training.
Attend training and the drills will quickly show you that our players don't lack basic skills
No way can that be duplicated under the pressure of 'real' match conditions.
But the side that comes with the greatest intensity will always look more skilled as they dominate the other team.


Again, at the ground (I was at the Coventry end level 2 in a pocket), you can see the whole ground it was so notable the difference in work rate of the two teams when they didn't have the ball. When they didn't have the ball, they would close in hard, limit space and inevitably either tackle our bloke or pressure him into an error. When we didn't have the ball, we would approach with caution, sit off a bit and the Brisbane bloke had all the time in the world to sum up the best option and deliver. The hunger to win it back at all costs by Brisbane was very noticeable.

And can Kruze please work with the rucks and tell them to please hit it to our advantage, or punch it on the direction we are kicking if our on ballers are hot/manned up.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #71
I thought he got caught out a few times, the long Lyons kick to Hipwood who fecked up the pass but got a goal by accident wasnt great, Jones was nowhere near him. But being at the ground does give you a different perspective and you dont see the work off the ball either so I will cut Jones some slack given your close up observations.
Jones left him to try and help out up the ground and the other defenders didn't cover. No it didn't look good, sometimes you just have to not be drawn to the contest and cover your man. The defenders were arguing alot during that 2nd qtr. Overall I still think he was excellent.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #72
Zach Tuohy left Carlton at the end of 2016.  It's been that long since we've had a player who could be relied upon to kick a goal accurately from 50 metres.

Whenever he did I can remember the instant lift in the morale of the players and of course the supporters, especially at Marvel Stadium.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #73
With Williams not having the impact in the middle at the moment, I'd be tempted to play him across half back. His kicking has been very ordinary so far, just not giving his team advantage, Either that or have him tag a good but not super-quick midfielder. I think he could do that well and get some ball while he is at it.

If we had another guy who be a ruckman, I would drop Levi. he hasn't had a good ear and has barely taken a mark. However, if an opposing team had 3 tall forwards, I would use Levi in that role. His ability to read to ball in the air in defence has been excellent.

SPS I'd play on a wing instead of Cottrell. He played some very good patches today, but isn't fast enough, and his disposal this year has been ordinary. Give him a chance to kick a goal.

Gibbo had a shocker. he didn't attack the ball like he normally does and he was ineffective wherever he played. However, he has some runs on the board and will probably survive. Unfortunately his lack of pace was really obvious out there tonight.

Jack Newnes also had one of his worst game for us. he made a lot more mistakes than he normally does and found the pace hard yakka. Again, he has a few runs on the board, which might save him. But a quicker player is a must in the longer term. Honey? I like the guy, but he goes missing too often.

Cunners had a very patchy game, where he was very good in patches and missing in others. he may be worth persevering with in the centre square, as he did some really nice things there.

People continue to bag Murphy, but he had a good game tonight. he isn't going to get 30+ possessions in a forward pocket, so we have to change out perception of him in that regard. He was a good option tonight who managed some good goals. Realize that he is what he is now, and 30+ possessions is not likely to happen.

Fog had a shocker. he had very little impact on the game and was knocked off the ball too easily.
Gibbons got manned by Starcevich from what I saw who is a strongly built kid and Gibbo couldnt shake him all night, the size issue
is a problem when you play a few smalls, as you say Fogarty was knocked off the ball easily and I even thought Saad had trouble getting away from the Lions tacklers.
I think Newnes went to Cameron at one stage and I wasnt sure where he actually played most during the game but I didnt see much of him.
Williams at half back might be a good idea just to get him firing and more ball...

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #74
Betts kicked 0.4, and 2 of those he would normally kick in his sleep. Add to that Stocker's own goal (behind) and there's 13 points wiped off the deficit right there. For a team with apparently low work rate and at times terrible skills against a top 4 contender..................