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Hall of fame - Goodes

Sook.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #1
Good on him. Crowds were disgraceful and the AFL was too gutless or oblivious to act. Now Gil wants his bother to gush over Goodes and the AFL’s commitment to indigenous footballers.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #2
Good on him. Crowds were disgraceful and the AFL was too gutless or oblivious to act. Now Gil wants his bother to gush over Goodes and the AFL’s commitment to indigenous footballers.

Crowds were disgraceful to figjam too......but he's a different colour so thats ok.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #3
We also need to get around white men who are victimised for being white. Fair’s fair.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #4
As Eddie Betts said tonight:
Respect the decision, unless you been racially abused you dont understand how deep it cuts (and continues to cut for the rest of your life).
2017 - 16th
2018 - Wooden Spoon
2019 - 16th
2020 - dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021 - Pi$$ or get off the pot

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #5
As Eddie Betts said tonight:
Respect the decision, unless you been racially abused you dont understand how deep it cuts (and continues to cut for the rest of your life).

Perfectly summed up by Eddie yet folk will continue to maintain that the vilification of Goodes wasn't racist.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #6
The whole SCG crowd booed Buddy Franklin the year before they got him.
Goodes didn't say anything.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #7
As Eddie Betts said tonight:
Respect the decision, unless you been racially abused you dont understand how deep it cuts (and continues to cut for the rest of your life).

Agree with that.

Although, some of the rhetoric around him being booed out of the game is drawing a very long bow.

I remember Goodes last game against North Melbourne.  It was a semi final, and he looked a long way off the pace, and I thought he was very much done with footy.

The only thing I cannot quantify about him was how much the booing effected his want to be there, but even so, he didnt look like he could continue at the level anyway.  He was almost 36 when he retired.

There aren't too many that go on for that long and remain at a high level.
Come on you Blue FLAGGERS!!

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #8
Not all booing is created equally. Crowds boo for many different reasons. I suspect in Goodes' case, the shorthand phrase "booing" is about much more than just that simple sound.
Solo piano

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #9
Not all booing is created equally. Crowds boo for many different reasons. I suspect in Goodes' case, the shorthand phrase "booing" is about much more than just that simple sound.
Yes, I agree with most perspectives on this issue, but I find it hard to detangle the motives. It's clearly not true all those booing are racist, and it's clearly not true that all those booing aren't racist. It's clear Goodes is correct about racism, but it's clear Goodes is incorrect about the root cause of all the booing.

If Adam hadn't slid studs up into opponents, if he hadn't thrown himself on the ground free of any physical contact, if he hadn't directly denied doing those things to camera despite the obvious footage, would the situation have become as bad as it did?

I've heard it asserted Goodes used those "obvious denials" purely as a bait to flush out racism, but I think that is a revisionist claim that surfaced long after the other initial aspects of this debate.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #10
Yes, I agree with most perspectives on this issue, but I find it hard to detangle the motives. It's clearly not true all those booing are racist, and it's clearly not true that all those booing aren't racist. It's clear Goodes is correct about racism, but it's clear Goodes is incorrect about the root cause of all the booing.

If Adam hadn't slid studs up into opponents, if he hadn't thrown himself on the ground free of any physical contact, if he hadn't directly denied doing those things to camera despite the obvious footage, would the situation have become as bad as it did?

I've heard it asserted Goodes used those "obvious denials" purely as a bait to flush out racism, but I think that is a revisionist claim that surfaced long after the other initial aspects of this debate.

I think Goodes has paid a heavy price for taking a stand on this issue, which is pretty much always the case when one person takes on deeply entrenched behaviours. I have no doubt he was deeply hurt and upset by these incidents, and if he was in it for himself I'm sure he would have accepted all the accolades that have come his way, rather than turning them down. Whether somewhere along the line he saw an opportunity to start a conversation about racism, and make it more than just about him, I guess we may never know.
Solo piano

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #11
I think Goodes has paid a heavy price for taking a stand on this issue, which is pretty much always the case when one person takes on deeply entrenched behaviours. I have no doubt he was deeply hurt and upset by these incidents, and if he was in it for himself I'm sure he would have accepted all the accolades that have come his way, rather than turning them down. Whether somewhere along the line he saw an opportunity to start a conversation about racism, and make it more than just about him, I guess we may never know.
I think money has a lot to answer for in this saga, back in the day, greats of all colours and creeds retired gracefully, now for a wallet full of idolatry every game they hang on bitterly!

Personally, I think he stained an otherwise stellar AFL reputation long before in the very end it became about racism, the last few years of his career were really lowest common denominator stuff on field, not conducting himself in a manner fitting a Rolls Royce of the game. Fans don't forget, and they aren't naivé and as easily led as some like to think or paint.

I fear now it's become more lucrative for Adam to be seen a certain way, instead of working at revision and reparation from the inside, he's become an activist. I'm not sure the motives remain so pure.

The Force Awakens!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #12
Not all booing is created equally. Crowds boo for many different reasons. I suspect in Goodes' case, the shorthand phrase "booing" is about much more than just that simple sound.

The issue about him being booed is multi faceted. 

Motivation, racism etc is one of them in some cases.

Where it falls over though is his on field conduct and demeanor. 

I think the indigenous celebrate their culture in ways that sometimes go against the grain.

I.e.  currently, we have a be deadly and proud campaign.

The only time deadly is used in common vernacular is being deadly serious and being deadly is otherwise seen to be dangerous.

This campaign seems problematic to me but its on TV all the time.

Reverting back to Goodes for a moment, his celebration where he threw a spear at the cheer squad met derision from our fans.  Why?  Because he kicked a goal against us.  He threw a spear at us afterwards to ram that point home.  Of course our fans didn't like it.  They booed.

Is that racist?

I dont think so.  It was more than just a goal once he threw the spear its a psychological message.  Oh I was just celebrating my heritage.

To simply state the reaction was racist and the action a celebration ignores the psychological message that goal scoring in sports sends. 

Come on you Blue FLAGGERS!!

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #13
As I posted when the booing of Goodes became a thing (no revisionism here), if you attend a protest because for you it means you can protest about a certain thing that annoys you but you find you’re surrounded by neo-Nazis, Proud Boys and nutters who are using it to push an agenda that disgusts you, you need to leave. Otherwise you are helping to push that agenda by swelling the ranks.

At least if you’re at a protest or a rally, you can hold up a sign to make clear what concerns you. But when you just boost the volume of booing, you don’t have the ability to separate yourself from the racists. And it’s just nonsense to deny that the ferocity of the booing and the way supporters of different clubs participated showed it had a very substantial racial basis. As I said back then, whatever grudge you might have against Goodes, separate yourself from the racists by STFU.

As an example of this, the racist far right likes to commandeer symbols that have had no racist element to them. The creator of Pepe the Frog has been dismayed that his creation is now a racist symbol. The OK hand gesture is now on the banned list given it’s now used to signify approval of far right groups (and a Jeopardy contestant was put through the mill after he used it innocently to reference his 3 wins). You can bluster all you want about your right to use words and symbols that have been co-opted, but that’s just ignorant. How many straight men these days describe themselves as gay bachelors?

We’ll expect St. Kilda’s Max King to be hounded from now on for successfully flopping to draw a 50 metre penalty that almost turned the game against Sydney. And I wonder why Darren Milburn wasn’t heckled universally for ironing Silvagni after he’d kicked the ball. And far from being hounded out of the game for sliding in and breaking Gary Rohan’s leg, I can’t even remember who was the culprit.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #14
Reverting back to Goodes for a moment, his celebration where he threw a spear at the cheer squad met derision from our fans.  Why?  Because he kicked a goal against us.  He threw a spear at us afterwards to ram that point home.  Of course our fans didn't like it.  They booed.

Is that racist?

I dont think so.  It was more than just a goal once he threw the spear its a psychological message.  Oh I was just celebrating my heritage.

To simply state the reaction was racist and the action a celebration ignores the psychological message that goal scoring in sports sends. 
Yes I agree.

I appreciate those taking a purely anti-racism stance do not want to see it that way, but I feel that stance will only slow progress rather than assist, in this debate we should not use tactics that polarise, we should deliberately look for and use tactics that unite.

I see it as an opportunity missed, some may suggest it has been derailed.
The Force Awakens!