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Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #30
BS. In the pantheon of AFL bad boys, Goodes doesn’t rate at all. If lack of remorse or denial was enough to inspire universal condemnation, Dermie would have endured a wall of booing every second he was on field. Remember when he tried to claim he didn’t mean to stand on Raydan Tallis’ head (among other clear “alternative facts”)?
Brereton was booed widely by many AFL fans, not always the same reason for each game, but widely, as was Hunt for standing on Betts hand.

To assert they were booed for for a single or the same reason at every game is an absurdity, just as absurd as to claim Goodes was only booed by racists.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #31
Nice straw man argument there. Point to where I claimed “Goodes was only booed by racists” or was “booed for for a single or the same reason at every game”. I won’t bother cutting and pasting my actual arguments as they are clearly set out above. And nice little move there, changing the focus from racist acts to racists. That gets you a gold elephant stamp.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #32
Instead of the mob accepting that Goodes was being racially abused, it reacted by amping up the booing because Goodes had humiliated a poor (white) girl, even though she wasn’t carrying an “I’m only 14” sign on her.
The bulk of the mob you accuse of booing in racism, pretty much everyone more than a row or two from the child, only saw a wealthy, healthy powerful AFL man point out a female child to a security guard, "the mob" had neither audio, context or transcript of the events that took place at the time. That all came after the fact, all they saw was an AFL Man having a child ejected by ground security.

Are you accusing "the mob" of supporting the child's abusive stance after they were made aware of the evidence?

From any distance that I saw that event, in the absence of other evidence, I'd be part of the crowd booing Goodes as well, fancy the big strong influential footballer singling out a child to be frog marched out of the stadium! Based on your want for corporal punishment as outlined in your ear shredding post, I suspect you would have booed too!

But all that comes long long long after the crowds started booing Goodes for other reasons, reasons related to football and on field behaviour and nothing at all to do with racism, most of it starting around 2011. It had been going on years before the McGuire incident.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #33
The hawks were the first fans to boo him as  they had a big rivalry with Sydney. He did a few dirty acts but it was more the fact he got off at the tribunal. The Swans upset the Hawks in 2012 and then stole Buddy a year later. They hated Sydney, their fans used to chant COLA at games.
Hawk fans booed him in the 2014 grand final as they had done before and then a few Mav types in the media started saying it was racist because of Eddie and the 13 year old girl.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #34
I think Adam Goodes did some stuff on the field he wouldnt be proud of and in turn the public went with what they knew would be hurtful back and that was the booing with a good dose of racism mixed in.
I remember he went in first with his feet and took Josh Gibson out in one game and also I saw he had games where he disguised the odd sliding knee to the body or head when players were on the ground.
I dont know what was said or led to that behavior but Goodes became a little careless in his later years in how he treated other players and while players move on fans dont forget.
Was he lashing out because of what he was copping on the field verbally, physically , I dont know but it just seemed to me he was playing with real anger not just with the crowd but with opposition players too.
Its interesting with cricketers like Warner and Smith who cop booing now when they enter the field to bat....not to the same extent as Goodes did because cricket is more of a gentlemans game but never the less fans of countries other than South Africa also joined in the booing ie England and wont let either player forget the Sandpaper incident. Warner really collapsed under the pressure last Ashes series in England so booing can be be contagious, fashionable and can flow over to other teams/countries even though they have no direct involvement in incidents that caused the initial booing.
I'm sure half the people booing Goodes wouldnt even know why they were booing and just joined in to be part of the crowd because that is human nature to enjoy another human being tormented...sad isnt it.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #35
I think Adam Goodes did some stuff on the field he wouldnt be proud of and in turn the public went with what they knew would be hurtful back and that was the booing with a good dose of racism mixed in.
I remember he went in first with his feet and took Josh Gibson out in one game and also I saw he had games where he disguised the odd sliding knee to the body or head when players were on the ground.
I dont know what was said or led to that behavior but Goodes became a little careless in his later years in how he treated other players and while players move on fans dont forget.
Was he lashing out because of what he was copping on the field verbally, physically , I dont know but it just seemed to me he was playing with real anger not just with the crowd but with opposition players too.
Its interesting with cricketers like Warner and Smith who cop booing now when they enter the field to bat....not to the same extent as Goodes did because cricket is more of a gentlemans game but never the less fans of countries other than South Africa also joined in the booing ie England and wont let either player forget the Sandpaper incident. Warner really collapsed under the pressure last Ashes series in England so booing can be be contagious, fashionable and can flow over to other teams/countries even though they have no direct involvement in incidents that caused the initial booing.
I'm sure half the people booing Goodes wouldnt even know why they were booing and just joined in to be part of the crowd because that is human nature to enjoy another human being tormented...sad isnt it.
I think that is a good balanced perspective of the circumstances, and yes it is sad.

If Carlton fans thought booing would get under the skin of say a Matthew Lloyd or a James Hird, we'd have done it in droves without hesitation, maybe we did try but they didn't react and we'd wasted our time so it died off.

More than once I recall Plugger getting fed up with opposition fans behind the goal and trying to remove their heads with the footy, that only made the fans worse, skin colour had nothing to do with it!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #36
Personally I couldn't stand him. 

Incited and divided the crowd like no one else - running with a pretend spear towards an opposition losing cheer squad is going to get a reaction regardless of your skin colour or the meaning behind it and then in typical righteous fashion he is offended when booed and played the race card till after he retired.  Gimme a break

Goodes rarely if ever complimented the AFL for providing him with the lifestyle he likely currently still reaps the benefits from  - nope he only ever discussed the negative side of the industry and his lack of appreciation of any thing positive the industry gave him is IMO another reason the average fan dislikes him.


 

 



Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #37
Personally I couldn't stand him. 

Incited and divided the crowd like no one else - running with a pretend spear towards an opposition losing cheer squad is going to get a reaction regardless of your skin colour or the meaning behind it and then in typical righteous fashion he is offended when booed and played the race card till after he retired.  Gimme a break

Goodes rarely if ever complimented the AFL for providing him with the lifestyle he likely currently still reaps the benefits from  - nope he only ever discussed the negative side of the industry and his lack of appreciation of any thing positive the industry gave him is IMO another reason the average fan dislikes him.


 

 



I am sure Goodes, like everyone, has done things he regrets and would take them back if he could. But the racial vilification he has suffered on and off the field, which has deeply affected him, cannot be questioned. Many will debate whether the booing was racially motivated or not but to me that's not the central issue.
2017 - 16th
2018 - Wooden Spoon
2019 - 16th
2020 - dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021 - Pi$$ or get off the pot

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #38
Harry O'Brien's own team mates used to call him chimp but he didn't get any support from anyone.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #39
Harry O'Brien's own team mates used to call him chimp but he didn't get any support from anyone.

Apparently he himself called himself Chimp.

Either way its pretty abhorrent.

My surname is pretty long.  I got nicknamed by the 12th man cab driver as parts of that name are in my surname (and first name).

For those who dont know or remember:

Theo"farken"opoulos.

Thats what I was called in high school.  You know what the other Greeks copped?  Various other things, but there was a delivery style that changed it, and not everyone delivered it either, but to the average Joe, it might have been racist, but that's being an Australian for you.

Maybe that was racist.  That didnt bother me anywhere near as much as being called a fat, greasy smelly wog.
Come on you Blue FLAGGERS!!

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #40
My surname in 5 letters long and as Anglo-Saxon as you can get: Beare. Pronounced liked the animal, although most people get it wrong. The things I copped for that! Particularly as I was overweight as a child.

Things were like that in those days, and things haven't changed that much today.  I grew a relatively thick skin, and led the clowns in the direction I preferred: "There's a Beare in There! And a chair as well!"

Maybe I don't know what it is like to be a 'black fella'. But I do know what it is like to be abused by idiots. I would not have knocked back an honour like that. I would feel vindicated.

While I didn't boo Adam Goodes more than about twice, it was never racist for me. I didn't like him because he was a hypocrite. And he remains one.
There were times when he actively hid behind his aboriginality, using it to shield from criticism that he deserved. He used it at the tribunal. But when things the other way, he was the first to shout 'racist'.
Nor did it stop him using racist language at others, just because they not black.
Similarly when it came to his slide tackles. he was the first to complain for anything done to him or his teammates, yet he did things that were designed to injure.

I have a lot of respect for people like Barry Cable, Syd Jackson and Eddie Betts, who were abused verbally most unfairly, yet did not retaliate with bile. They copped it and moved on, to be champions in spite of everything they were subjected to. They were not hypocritical. When I hear some of the stories that Eddie tells I must admit that I am horrified. They were true to themselves and would definitely not have forgone an honour like being a Hall of Famer.
I can remember only one time when Syd hid behind his ethnicity. He was involved in a fight in the 2nd semi final and was let off because he said he had been racially abused. He copped a lot of racial abuse that day, just not from the player he hit. He told a porkie pie and go to play as a result in the 1970 GF. He is not proud of that. He admits that publicly. I can't see Adam Goodes admitting that he did anything wrong. he appears to like being represented as a 'victim', rather than rising above it.

In another field, I am reminded of a certain 1st black President of South Africa. He suffered more racism that any aboriginal has ever done. He was locked up for years in conditions we would not keep an animal in. Yet, he did not seek revenge. He something else far more difficult. He may not have made South Africa into a Paradise, but he made it a much better and more just place than it could have been.
if I were Adam Goodes, I would look towards Nelson Mandela for a way to improve things. He certainly had more class than a man who rejects honours offered to him. He would be a bigger man to accept, and to make his point other ways.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #41
Regardless of whether or not he should've knocked back the hall of fame honours. He will always be in the hall of fame to me.

First round induction into the Hall of Fame biggest wankers!
Nothing to do with his skin colour.
Nothing to do with his ability.
Simply to do with his actions and the way he carried himself......as a footballer.

He would sit quite comfortably with fellow Hall of Fame biggest wankers Stephen Milne, Darren Milburn and Ryan Crowley.

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #42
I have no issue with Goodes at all. No individual or organisation is 100% clean, but what he did took real guts. And he's still paying a price now.
Solo piano

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #43
Was a fan of his abilities as a player, he had great skills for a player his size but his personality was never one that grabbed me unlike say Eddie Betts who has also copped his fair share of racism but Eddie has always pushed through and kept his happy go lucky persona while dealing with the racist BS thrown his way.
I didnt dislike Goodes but couldnt warm to him which made it hard to understand his actions...his carry on with the very inoffensive Carlton group of supporters at the SCG was clearly frustration from previous games dealing with other idiot supporters but his war dance was uncalled for and only inflamed the situation and made him more of a target.
Eddie would have handled that differently IMO and played to the crowd like he always does and thats why he is such a respected and loved figure in the game.
I get Goodes is still bitter and its his choice what awards he wants to embrace or denounce...

Re: Hall of fame - Goodes

Reply #44
Just to reiterate something here.

Why was he booed again?

Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzkKqUoE5yM
  Swan dive, then kicks out...

Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b7QRl8aoRY
  Hits behind play.  Not a good look.  Continues after hes done with that one.

Quote
https://www.afl.com.au/video/22461/goodes-hit-or-bad-acting?videoId=22461&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1409387137001

Now I have seen a lot of players booed across the journey.  Thing is, they usually get booed for either being good (Judd) snobbing a team and going elsewhere (Treloar copped it for choosing the Pies over Richmond and saying that they were closer to a flag and had a better list), Ballantyne (for being himself, the guy was a bit of a pain) and Crowley (No one likes a good tagger).

The Richmond hit is a free kick irrespective of him making a meal of it.  The Tigers have championed the face fend off.  That needs to stop because sooner or later, someone is going to have a neck issue (someone from a team that isnt Carlton, Ed Curnow says hi) but play acting isnt really admired or liked in the AFL fraternity because thats what they accuse soccer players of.



The racism argument is often one sided.  You are racist if you boo.  You are not racist if you are proud of being deadly (to coin a phrase).  Thing is, racism is racism.  You can promote a race and not denigrate others and still be racist.  I heard a rather racist comment from a black person.  Despite empathising with black people, others wont ever understand racism unless they are black.  Hang about, Im pretty confident Asian, and Muslim people cop similar or worse despite not being considered black.  I am confident that  "the wogs" of the community have worn and put up with a fair amount of racism.  If you have ever been made to feel shame for being a bit different or from an ethnic group, then that is the text book example of racism at work.  Now its racist to point the finger at others for simply being white and accusing them of being racist for taking objection to a persons character because they are black?  No.  I dont like that.  I can call someone a flog if I dont like them.  There are many walking and talking flogs in sport.  I have seen Darcy Vescio make some comments on social media that similarly are man hating.  I told her to be better than that.  No need to pull men down to be a proud female.

The same applies to the indigenous, and multicultural communities.  They are the only ones I have seen that consider myself to be a white person, because the white fraternity dont see me as anything but different.  We are similarly rejected by all parties, and I for one see this new attempt to make everyone feel shame for what it is.  Abject Prejudicial Discrimination.

Quote
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

If we stopped labelling people (as Indigenous, european whatever) and started calling everyone Australian, guess what would happen to racism.
Come on you Blue FLAGGERS!!

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson