Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

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Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #30 – August 07, 2021, 06:22:40 pm

Quote from: spf on August 07, 2021, 06:19:23 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but team defence and 'system' is coaching driven.

https://youtu.be/1hqYj4cYrJQ

Only if the players want to play to the plan. That's the issue. Some weeks it has been really good, most weeks terrible as they don't give a 5hit.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #31 – August 07, 2021, 06:34:29 pm

Thanks Carlton, it's ingrained in my psyche so I knew it was going to happen. A rubbish performance from coaches and players, bullied, outworked and beaten by a team with nothing other than pride to player for.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #32 – August 07, 2021, 06:44:45 pm

Quote from: PaulP on August 07, 2021, 05:09:41 pm

LoB's papers are probably stamped, but to be fair, we had plenty of average players today. He wasn't our worst by any stretch IMO.

Think he would know that today puts him back under the hammer and while he should play vs Port having to play on Duursma, Amon and Butters if he plays on the wing is going to be even harder. Got a bit of ball in the last quarter did LOB today but needs games like last week in the remaining two vs Port and GWS.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #33 – August 07, 2021, 06:45:07 pm

And one other thing, in pre-empting the Murphy hate, if anyone can enlighten me as to how Murph may have impacted/caused todays poor result, I'm keen to hear it. Should make for interesting reading.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #34 – August 07, 2021, 06:46:50 pm

You would have thought with so many players playing for their Careers we could put some effort in, once again today it was a rabble just another terrible game to watch, how many times have we played like that now this year 3 or 4

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #35 – August 07, 2021, 06:54:15 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on August 07, 2021, 06:45:07 pm

And one other thing, in pre-empting the Murphy hate, if anyone can enlighten me as to how Murph may have impacted/caused todays poor result, I'm keen to hear it. Should make for interesting reading.

He's been part of the core group responsible for the standards acceptable by their peers. Been a conditional player for many, many years. He epitomises why we are where we are. Not really his fault though, it is who he is... Our gutless MCs and board over the years have refused to make difficult decisions.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #36 – August 07, 2021, 06:55:29 pm

Quote from: Smurfy on August 07, 2021, 06:46:50 pm

You would have thought with so many players playing for their Careers we could put some effort in, once again today it was a rabble just another terrible game to watch, how many times have we played like that now this year 3 or 4

Teague will do very well to survive this performance, I like the guy but inconsistent effort is going to be the end of him.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #37 – August 07, 2021, 07:01:58 pm

WARNING IRRATIONAL RANT FOLLOWS - WRITTEN AS A NEXT ROUND PREVIEW BUT WITH A FAIR BUT OF VITRIOLIC REVIEW THROWN IN AT THE END.

Before I fire up let me say I know it is unjustifiably harsh, I know the players turn up with the intent to try their best even if some days they don't fire a shot, I know some busted a gut today and all who play at this level have not only skill beyond us mere mortals but also courage I can't honestly say I know i would display (albeit that courageous is a word that was often used to described my pathetic playing career but largely because to my skill level my courage was impressive rather than it being objectively so) and that they by and large make sacrifices in their lives to ever get to that level but most of us couldn't and/or wouldn't BUT DAMN IT I HAVE LOVED THIS CLUB SINCE 1968 AND I AM GOING TO BE IRRATIONAL ALL RIGHT!

With any luck the competition might be shut down and/or this game cancelled due to Covid.

By my calculation there were 14 players not playing today who might be fit enough to play next week ("the Fit 14"). That would be 14 of my starting 18. If any don't come up it saves another "player" (and I use the term loosely) from today. That leaves 9 spots including medical sub. I would fill them with those that most deserve to be there - a mix of performance this week (not that many get a plus mark), effort over the season, effort over their career and those that need another game under their belt to develop (maybe Honey), continue a comeback (Charlie) or show they are worth a place on the list next year (arguably Kennedy, Dow, O'Brien etc) So category 1 for example would be Newman possibly our best player today, category 2 Walsh, category 3 - well we may as well carry Murph to 300 games now, and category 4 Charlie.

In terms of who played well enough today to have any case to argue for staying in the side - well there's Newman, Walsh, Ed Curnow. Others weren't disgusting but these are the 3 that I reckon flew the flag. Of course Walsh is in category 2 (and H Mac if he is fit but for the sake of the exercise I will assume he is out injured) and Ed C in category 3, so let's start listing "THE NON-SACKED NINE"

Category 1    Newman E Curnow (also could be in category 3)

Category 2 Walsh

Category 3 Murphy

Category 4    TBA

Cripps would also deserve category 3 status for his career, but for the sake of this exercise I am going to say (as may well be the case) he deserves even more a rest for his battered body.

Add Charlie C as category 4 - so 4 more to go. Given I have already suggested only 3 fit category 1 let's look to categories 2, 3 and 4. To my mind we should address category 3 first - those whose body of work over their career with the Blues has them deserving to avoid the ignominy of the cull. Possibles excluding Cripps as aforesaid are Betts of course, Jones and maybe even Weitering albeit he is still young. In any event Weits would surely get in under category 2 for his season performances. That would make 22. I also think JSOS deserves a spot on his year and his drive (and no doubt the family name subconsciously comes into play), so without having any consideration of category 4 we are already at 23 but let's see whether any category 4s deserve to oust any and how many of the names above.

I see the category 4s beyond Charlie as being:

Young guns Honey Stocker Dow

Last chancers    Kennedy Williamson O'Brien

Comebackers Nil

I think all but O'Brien have either shown enough or had enough chances to make a decision on their future without needing another look - I won't digress into who I think should stay and who should go that's for the list management discussion, but ... no I won't digress. :smile:

So if you include O'Brien there is 24, one miss out (be one of the 3 emergencies not medisub) and two other bodies to also be named an emergency. End of the day I think Honey's goals probably earn him at least an emergency slot and that leaves 1 emergency and I don't give a rat's tossbag which of these underwhelming (I'll again use the term loosely) "players" get that spot but forced to pick one I'd go Williamson as a harder body who is trying to save his career. Of course if any one or more of the Fit 14 don't come up then one or more of the emergencies and (if we had a run off injuries to the Fit 14 - and let's face it with our injury run this year anything's possible) even beyond might get saved, but for the sake of the exercise let's go with Fit 14 plus 9 plus 3, and I'd line them up with the Fit 14 plus 4 others starting on field ike this:

Williams McDonald    Parks
Cottrell    Weitering    Ramsay
Carroll    Setterfield   SPS
Durdin McGovern Fogarty
Casboult C Curnow Owies
Jones Kemp Murphy

Then bench plus medisub
E Curnow Newman JSOS Walsh / Betts

Emergencies: MEDISUB Honey O'Brien Williamson

Eddie gets medisub to hopefully limit his workload and set him up fresh for round 23 just in case it is his last game. Smurph gets to play all day (injury aside) in his 300th, that is how it should be for anyone's 300th if the season is over, and he should retire at the final siren or better still announce it before the game. Not that I expect he would do that,, but if I ran the club I'd tell him it's that or medisub for his 300th and see which choice he would make - but if he said medisub I'd start him anyway, his career deserves it. I am a softy/romantic at heart.

Of course no AFL club would do such a thing but it would send such a message. Of course the team would get pumped unless the Port coach completely stuffed up (by which I mean their bus breaks down and they don't reach the ground). But that is the point - the players today other than the ones I have named forfeited the right to wear the first team guernsey for one week at least and it's only the rules around player lists and availability that save even them. It was a collective failure and warrants collective consequences. On on the point of consequences surely the Teague train has been derailed. He should get on the phone to Clarko himself and offer him the job (and ideally stay on as senior assistant with a Roos/Goodwin deal to take over in a few years). Again never going to happen, but then neither was my 3QT suggestion he send one assistant coach out to tell the "players" words to the effect "if you aren't going to turn up for us then we're not going to turn up for you" and then turn around and walk off.

END RANT

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #38 – August 07, 2021, 07:03:12 pm

Quote from: laj on August 07, 2021, 05:49:24 pm

We could 2 years ago when he was near enough the best player in the comp.

I'd have been right there with you. Unfortunately that was a long time ago. We are way too easy to play against.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #39 – August 07, 2021, 07:19:50 pm

I'm not sure about Russell. Our players can't stay on the field and we can only sustain effort for 1 game and then come out the next week like we've just run a marathon. Are we overworking then during the week? Not enough? Are the recovery sessions working?

I do think Teague and the players deserve heat for sure but the conditioning clearly isn't working for our group.

I think we need to rotate guys out who are feeling off a lot more regularly. Carroll and Cotterell or Kemp could have helped spark something.

And a last word for the hapless Plowman. He is the dumbest player in the AFL. If you don't agree that's fine but you are categorically wrong. The fact that he finishes high in our B&F probably says more about our club and our culture of acceptance of mediocrity than anything else.

Kemp should have replaced him weeks ago.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #40 – August 07, 2021, 07:23:03 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on August 07, 2021, 06:45:07 pm

And one other thing, in pre-empting the Murphy hate, if anyone can enlighten me as to how Murph may have impacted/caused todays poor result, I'm keen to hear it. Should make for interesting reading.

Picking a bloke who is cooked to be part of the team (even as sub) sends a very clear signal to the rest of the team:

MEDIOCRITY ACCEPTED HERE

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #41 – August 07, 2021, 07:27:44 pm

Cr@p side going backwards. Wish we played all our games on Sunday night.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #42 – August 07, 2021, 07:57:58 pm

Quote from: Baggers on August 07, 2021, 05:55:40 pm

If not for Weitering and Jones this year, where would we be?

Well, Mr Sayers, you'll need an icy objectivity to address our on-field issues. Hopefully you won't defer to sentimentality, populist or half-@rsed processes when addressing the imperative changes needed in our footy department. Poor leadership, poor discipline, dying culture... astounding incompetence for so long from a once great club. And the proof of this is on full display most weeks, on the field. Just enough good performances occur to give us confidence in the list, but it stops there.

I commented at the beginning of the year, after a few rounds, that we've been conned again. Enormous credit must go to the marketing/PR and media departments for such an effective 'sell.' But if we go into 2022 with many of the same faces in the footy department, that will be an impossible 'sell.' A lot of faith, if not already gone, is wavering. There is very little confidence in our present leadership.

My sentiments exactly.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #43 – August 07, 2021, 07:58:38 pm

Quote from: Smurfy on August 07, 2021, 06:46:50 pm

You would have thought with so many players playing for their Careers we could put some effort in, once again today it was a rabble just another terrible game to watch, how many times have we played like that now this year 3 or 4

That's part of the problem. They play for their careers and next contract, not for the team.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #44 – August 07, 2021, 08:00:26 pm

I was warming up for a multi-paged rant, but I've over it for the moment. I do have a few things that I need to say though:
[1] Whether the players love Teague or not is now irrelevant. Today they killed him as a senior coach. Having produced two unacceptable efforts in three weeks will be the end of him.

[2] Most of the assistant coaches can also pack their bags. But for a couple of newbies, like Power, the rest have been there for a while and will not get another contract. Whoever the new coach may be, he will have to find his own assistants.

[3] There are a number of players whose contract status for next year and beyond was questionable. Those that played today probably did irreversible damage to their chances of remaining. They probably won't be sacked: they will be traded for draft picks and other players. I am assuming a new coach who will want want the same cattle trying to kill him.

[4] There won't be many voters for the Jim Park this week. We managed only 7 a few weeks back when we lost to North, and only managed a dozen when we triumphed last week. That is just so much less than normal, between one third and one half of the voters no longer bothering.
I may even be one of them. I didn't see the match live. I might watch it on Kayo, but I might not. My mental health is dubious enough at the moment without my football team making it worse.

[5] I know Russell has a very good reputation, but our boys don't seem to be responding to him any better than they have to the coaching staff. Our injuries have mounted every week. That may also reflect poorly on our medical staff. The new administration will have to address this issue, as we cannot afford to die in the last quarter.

[6] The finger may well point at our recruiters again. It is hard to blame young Austin: he simply hasn't been there long enough. But some of the others could well face immanent replacement.

[7] When it comes time to celebrate Marc Murphy's 300th game, there isn't going to be much to celebrate. He has struggled to have an impact of late and the team are not likely to come up against the team in the 8.

[8] Until the team plays for the jumper and not the dollar, we will continue to be a rabble. That could well be one of the reasons for the clean out that now will come at season's end.