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Topic: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast (Read 7042 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #45 –
Quote from: crashlander on
2] Most of the assistant coaches can also pack their bags. But for a couple of newbies, like Power, the rest have been there for a while and will not get another contract. Whoever the new coach may be, he will have to find his own assistants.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the assistant coaches supposed to have been told a week ago whether they had positions for 2022.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #46 –
It's pretty clear what our problem is - the list not the coaches. 

I'm going to shoot Bambi.  If the likes of Fisher want to enjoy the trappings of a professional footballer he needs to be a professional footballer and play in such a manner.  No more crap Instagram channel BS headressing action,  just get a kick son.   Just like far too many on our list - too distracted by stuff outside football and not enough emphasis on the team and club.

Over these frauds, time to sort the culture out.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #47 –
What is the game plan? What are the structures?
Either the players aren’t sure or our opponents are well and truly onto them?
When it’s not working, what is plan B (and plan C)?
We have a group of elite footballers that don’t work as a team.
It’s not the personnel at fault. It’s the management of them.
Our new club song is “Land of Confusion” (if Phil Collins doesn’t mind)

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #48 –
Not sure our players are that elite, some woeful skills and some only turn up every couple of weeks when they feel like making an effort.How many million dollar a year players do North have or the Suns... The latter are kids, locals, hacks from the VFL, journeymen from other clubs and a few early round picks finding their way. Plus they were playing us away from home..
People bag out the likes of Sellers Mclure but at least him, The Dominator etc could be out on the fizz all week but all would turn up to play on game day. How do you coach players who can't be bothered competing each week?

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #49 –
In my own experience of being a member of sporting teams, albeit at a pretty humble level,  the main ingredients for success, apart from talent and ability, were belief and commitment.

I think we probably have adequate if not spectacular talent but the belief and commitment are definitely missing on too many occasions. IMHO this goes beyond the realms of coaching and stems from deep within the fabric of the club.  We could keep speculating but if the review does not nail it, get used to it going on for more years to come.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #50 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
In my own experience of being a member of sporting teams, albeit at a pretty humble level,  the main ingredients for success, apart from talent and ability, were belief and commitment.

I think we probably have adequate if not spectacular talent but the belief and commitment are definitely missing on too many occasions. IMHO this goes beyond the realms of coaching and stems from deep within the fabric of the club.  We could keep speculating but if the review does not nail it, get used to it going on for more years to come.

Playing devils advocate here...
How do you expect players to have belief and commitment when....
1. The club is doing an internal review of the football department mid-season
2. The media are constantly trying to get Teague sacked
3. The members/supporters are calling for Teagues head and get more joy from bagging out the players than from pumping them up.

As a club we lack belief (in ourselves) and commitment (to those we employ to do their job). That has to filter down and penetrate every level of the club to the point where it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

How do we break the cycle? Back ourselves in and stop sacking the coach!

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #51 –
@ Kruddler

I don't expect the players to be able to sustain belief and commitment because, as I stated, I do believe we we have deep problems at the club that sacking yet another coach would unlikely fix. I do understand the frustration of supporters though who are forced to witness the long standing litany of failure.

The player performances are a function of club culture.  We see new players join us and gradually succumb to it. It is vital that the review finds the root causes and gets them fixed, otherwise..........??
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #52 –
Quote from: shawny on

No doubt he has his limitations but his strength is in winning contested ball and he is that good at it that every single team in the comp would love having him in their midfield group playing that exact role which considering where we are says enough to suggest he is far from a problem in our team.

The issue with our club is Cripps weakness is highlighted in every loss by the lack of defensive cover from the remaining midfield group who overall apart from Walsh are plodders at best. Its a simplistic approach to suggest Cripps lack of defensive running is a major reason we get slaughter in the midfield most weeks. The lack of running midfielders depth wise we have is alarming and until we get adequate support in there nothing will change.  Kennedy, Dow and Setterfield are not the answer. 

Do you think Dusty Martin has ever been a hard 2 way runner? Judd at his best looked lazy defensively at times.  The very best mids usually have this as a weaknesses - its just that the better teams have the players in that area that provide the cover to stop their champs being exploited.

We dont have that luxury.
    

Very good assessment - supported by how effective the midfield was the previous week when Silvagni was forced to spend so much time in the ruck and the midfield support he provided.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #53 –
On a sort-of positive note - the recruitment of Saad seems to have been one of our better decisions for this season - his acceleration and kicking skills are very good and he has been much more desperate as a defender that I had been led to believe - all of which make me question whether he was carrying a significant injury yesterday - not once did I see him back his speed to run with the ball
 

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #54 –
Agree RR, Saad had  little impact , in fact most of our team were wondering like headless chooks, just can’t understand what happens in football.
The Saint pathetic last week , yesterday in the space of a6/7 days hammer the Swans by 30 points. Go figure

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #55 –
Quote from: bmaurizio on
Agree RR, Saad had  little impact , in fact most of our team were wondering like headless chooks, just can’t understand what happens in football.
The Saint pathetic last week , yesterday in the space of a6/7 days hammer the Swans by 30 points. Go figure

Despite what fans will want to believe, large pay packets, professional environment etc. don't make players superhuman. What happens in the world, in their own club, own lives etc., affects them as much as us. You only need to be off by a very small margin to see the wild swings in form lines, effort etc. from one week to the next. I can't think of a single team that hasn't played at least one shocker this season.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #56 –
What do you say? 2 absolutely disgraceful games sandwiched one good performance which probably just papered over the cracks. I texted a good mate, who is a Blues fan, at the 5 minute mark of the first quarter and said "we simply haven't turned up...it's that obvious...this will be a coach killer"....and pretty much spot on. About as listless a performance as you could get apart from about 10 minutes at the end of each of the first and second quarters.

Apologies if this has been covered in earlier comments but was it a "plan" to have McKay playing so far up the ground this week or did  it just pan out that way? If it was a part of a plan then it needs some explaining....the Coleman leader who has kicked multiple goals nearly every week, and who had a distinct height and reach advantage over his direct opponent, is playing up around the 50m arc and up on the wing. What was the possible point of that? And putting Walsh behind the ball at the start of the game? A champion midfielder who will be tagged a lot over the next 10 years...up against a pretty ordinary midfield apart from Miller....and we put the white flag up at the opening bounce and park him in the backline?

And how do you go from tackling ferociously and with intent last week to so many weak, broken tackles this week? Some of the down the ground footage from behind the goals at time was damning....Gold Coast aren't that good and have been blown off the park in the last 2 weeks yet they just kicked it at ease from one end to the other without us anywhere near an opponent. Apart from King they have a makeshift forward line and yet they still spotted each other up inside the forward 50 at will.

I've been a fan of Newnes given he cost us nothing but his last few weeks have been appalling and he should've played his last game yesterday...get Kemp or Carroll in there in the last couple of weeks on a wing and give them a run.

We love Eddie for everything he's done at Carlton and Adelaide and for the greater game but his time is up and giving him another year isn't a great idea IMO. Give him and Murphy games to the end of the season to get to 350 and 300 respectively but then it's time.

The shopping list should include a lock down defender who can play on the medium/small forwards and sacrifice their own game to shut down and opponent...not a host of free-wheeling defenders. Plowman was a liability again yesterday.

O'Brien showed glimpses last week but was barely sighted yesterday...same with Dow.

Even Walsh seemed a bit "off" his game yesterday despite being one of our better players.

It it a coaches job to get players "up and motivated" each week or as highly paid professional athletes, should the players do that on their own? Either way, we are our own worst enemy in games where it matters. The top 8 was a remote chance but a win yesterday against Gold Coast would've kept it alive, but we simply didn't show up....it was that obvious. If it's coach...then he should clear his locker out because something needs to change at our club.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #57 –
Quote from: WASurfer on
.......................................................
It it a coaches job to get players "up and motivated" each week or as highly paid professional athletes, should the players do that on their own? Either way, we are our own worst enemy in games where it matters. The top 8 was a remote chance but a win yesterday against Gold Coast would've kept it alive, but we simply didn't show up....it was that obvious. If it's coach...then he should clear his locker out because something needs to change at our club.

If you examine our body of work this season, we span the range from very good to very bad. Both are very real and very present. Inconsistency is the real killer. If it's up to the coach to motivate, then you would need to ask why he can motivate one week and not the next - it follows from this that his ability in this space also spans from very good to very bad. If it's up to the players, then exactly the same thing applies - if they can motivate themselves one week, then why not the next ? Once again, inconsistency. I'm not sure sure axe wielding either to coaches or players will help much to sort this out. In fact, I would argue it will make things worse.

There are no consequences on a footy forum - we can go to town chopping lists, players, coaches etc., without any fear of real world repercussions. I'm not sure it's that easy for a football club. The Bolton era made it obvious that too many changes in too short a period of time doesn't work. The temptation for people to be proactive and wanting to fix problems by "doing something" is very great, but if you've already made extensive changes over a short period, the next stage is stability and unity, not more upheaval IMO. There's a real skill involved in knowing when to make changes and when not to, a skill that I'm not sure we've mastered.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #58 –
Sorry All but after yesterdays effort indulge me with a RANT>
1) F@rk
2) F@rk me
3) For Farks Sake
4) What the F@rk

Thank you RANT over.

Oh and maybe just maybe we weren't good last week, ST KIlda just had a day off based on what happened last night

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 21: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #59 –
hope we dont throw the kids in the deep end in by playing them against port ,gc game would have been perfect. Anyway 5 changes except for Mr undroppable.plowman