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Topic: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane (Read 6063 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #15
In the modern game, the winger is a low-possession role with tons of unrewarded running as wingers keep their width and are therefore out of the contest. The rebounding defender role is the high possession one. Yes, there are teams with star players on the wing (e.g. St. Kilda & Hill) and those teams tie themselves in knots trying to bring those star into the play which undermines the role of the winger.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #16
In the modern game, the winger is a low-possession role with tons of unrewarded running as wingers keep their width and are therefore out of the contest. The rebounding defender role is the high possession one. Yes, there are teams with star players on the wing (e.g. St. Kilda & Hill) and those teams tie themselves in knots trying to bring those star into the play which undermines the role of the winger.
Collingwood are prospering with Lipinski, Sidebottom and Josh Daicos going very well on the wings.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #17
I wanted Lipinski the past couple of years. He's going well.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #18
Collingwood are prospering with Lipinski, Sidebottom and Josh Daicos going very well on the wings.
Sidebottom is having a career best season, but the Filth aren't perfect and there are many Filth supporters that see some worrying signs relating to the size and shape of their list. At the moment they are drinking a bit of their own bathwater after some terribly lucky escapes, but of course everybody needs a bit of luck.

You know what always happens with luck, it balances out! ;)
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #19
Ed Langdon is probably close to the best pure wingman in the game....non-stop running from defence to forward line....gets plenty of it and usually pretty effective with it.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #20
Ed Langdon is probably close to the best pure wingman in the game....non-stop running from defence to forward line....gets plenty of it and usually pretty effective with it.
Yep, I 100% agree.

For me the wing can be many things, as we know Fraser Gehrig started as a wing, I think coaches can be too formulaic when managing these positions. For example I could see SoJ or Charlie being effective wingmen given the appropriate tactics.

Having said that, I also think at times this season Walsh has been wasted on the wing. Just because he can run the wing, doesn't mean he should!
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #21
Sidebottom is averaging fewer disposals per game than LOB this year. Both average in the teens as is the case with most wingers. Langdon is the exception, averaging almost 22 disposals per game. But remember he’s on the ground for 100% of his matches which is crazy given how hard he runs. Being in the centre square crew is a better way to rack up possessions.

Setterfield has 14.6 disposals per game, but 2 of his 10 games were either wiped out by injury or being the injury sub. Considering only the other 8 games, he has averaged 18 disposals per game. That’s the same as LOB and slightly better than Sidebottom.

That’s just 1 aspect of their performance this season, of course. Clearly, Sidebottom has been better than Setterfield. But that’s not because Setterfield has racked up low possession numbers for a winger.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #22
Sidebottom is averaging fewer disposals per game than LOB this year. Both average in the teens as is the case with most wingers. Langdon is the exception, averaging almost 22 disposals per game. But remember he’s on the ground for 100% of his matches which is crazy given how hard he runs. Being in the centre square crew is a better way to rack up possessions.

Setterfield has 14.6 disposals per game, but 2 of his 10 games were either wiped out by injury or being the injury sub. Considering only the other 8 games, he has averaged 18 disposals per game. That’s the same as LOB and slightly better than Sidebottom.

That’s just 1 aspect of their performance this season, of course. Clearly, Sidebottom has been better than Setterfield. But that’s not because Setterfield has racked up low possession numbers for a winger.

Agree and think there is more to a wingers game than just running. The ball is kicked to one on one alot and need to win those battles in the air, win plenty of ground balls and plenty of tackles. Ed Langdon is a pro with his running patterns and Melbourne play a little wider than Vossy where he likes to bring the wings and half forwards/half backs to the contest. Setters is probably best described as a defensive winger.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #23
The disposal stats are similar, (Yes Lob is slightly higher) but Sidebottom has an average of 2.95 tackles to Lob's 1.31 and also almost twice the 1% across the course of the season.

Setterfield hasnt been played often enough to be involved in this conversation but when you mention these wingers a pattern emerges:

Sidebottom - Tough, Damaging, and capable of playing more roles.  Hits the scoreboard too

LOB - Quick and a good user of the pill generally can go missing (blame previous coaches for lack lustre development).

Ed Langdon - A gun.  I dont really see a weakness in his game.  Maybe not overly tall?  Neither are the others.

Setterfield:  Yet to mark his credentials as anything but an also ran and has 0 qualities that make him an outstanding footballer.  Needs to get tougher.  Id rather play Newnes than Setterfield which makes a statement of itself.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #24
Im not sure what the MC sees in Setterfield.  As a winger he has height as an advantage, but he is generally a bit of a one paced player, who doesnt exactly get leather poisoning to make up for a lack of any endearing attributes.

I suspect that Voss values height or the ability to play tall, which might be why Dow is struggling a little.

It was reward for effort. He played some decent games in the 2's.
He played a decent game the week before, i think he had 24 touches.
Problem has always been, he can't perform at his best consistently enough, and doesn't really have a best position.
In terms of tall slow mids, we have Cripps and Kennedy, with Silvagni an option too.....all ahead of Setterfield there.
In terms of wingers, we have LOB, Cottrell, Walsh, Newnes, Fisher....all ahead of Setterfield there.
In terms of back pockets/hbfs, we have Docherty, Saad, Newman, Plowman, Stocker, McGovern, Marchbank....all ahead of him there.

He hasn't grown into a role like we would have liked, and the roles he has performed for us, we have better options.
He is not as bad as people make out....but he isn't as good as he should be either.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #25
It was reward for effort. He played some decent games in the 2's.
He played a decent game the week before, i think he had 24 touches.
Problem has always been, he can't perform at his best consistently enough, and doesn't really have a best position.
In terms of tall slow mids, we have Cripps and Kennedy, with Silvagni an option too.....all ahead of Setterfield there.
In terms of wingers, we have LOB, Cottrell, Walsh, Newnes, Fisher....all ahead of Setterfield there.
In terms of back pockets/hbfs, we have Docherty, Saad, Newman, Plowman, Stocker, McGovern, Marchbank....all ahead of him there.

He hasn't grown into a role like we would have liked, and the roles he has performed for us, we have better options.
He is not as bad as people make out....but he isn't as good as he should be either.

Im not against rewarding form, but have you ever seen Setterfield do something (anything) and go thats why he gets a game?

I said similar about Boyd earlier in the season, but that was after his first AFL game, where he stunk it up.  Thats not unusual company to be in, given Kade Simpson and even Joel Selwoods debut where the numbers werent high, the clanger count was, but some players are worth persevering with.

Through sheer lack of other options, Setters passed 50 games as an AFL player this year, and whilst I am unsure what role he can play (like you say) I don't even know what he does well aside from be tall...
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #26
Collingwood are prospering with Lipinski, Sidebottom and Josh Daicos going very well on the wings.

Two of those wander around doing whatever they want without an opponent.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #27
I have a feeling we'll know the future of our season 10 minutes into this game.
If we're fair dinkum having a go we'll be hard at it.
If not, we've racked it

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #28
No doubt plenty on here think Setterfield is a waste of space, but if you look at his opportunities, injuries, coach shenanigans etc. it's not a great development environment, by any measure. Averages nine games per season, never knows from one week to the next who the coach will be, whether he's in the seniors or the two's, what position he will play etc. Apart from injuries, he's been stuffed around by our club big time. Originally recruited as a big bodied inside / outside mid, and from memory, only Bolton played him there consistently. He needs continuity, and he needs the coach to back him for a solid block of games in one position, which he can make his own. Only after that can we judge him IMO. But I fear it might be too late for him.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #29
Two of those wander around doing whatever they want without an opponent.
I've a relative who is a Filth supporter, he mentioned that the Daicos kids basically playing unmarked and he is gobsmacked opposition have let them run free for so long.
The Force Awakens!