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Topic: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ?? (Read 94829 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #135 –
What you mean to say is that MM has voiced what we already know to be true -the fact that we previously set ourselves up for a world of pain regarding our selection decisions.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #136 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
On talking footy, Malthouse says MK has to learn to be a forward as well as ruck.... It's like a never-ending nightmare. Trade him, let him flourish because it won't be at the blues.

So that would be two AFL quality 1st rucks we have offloaded inside 13 months because they were not KPFs, in the meantime we keep Casboult and Rowe!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #137 –
Quote from: denimundies on
What you mean to say is that MM has voiced what we already know to be true -the fact that we previously set ourselves up for a world of pain regarding our selection decisions.

If you are implying we drafted quality ruckmen and failed to run them into key forwards, correct!

No mater how hard you try you can't turn a pumpkin into a potato, but Carlton turned some pretty good quality rucks into spuds! What is worse having decided they are spuds and moving them on those blokes seem to do pretty well at other clubs, like it is almost instant improvement that is apparently impossible at our club!

Carlton's MC claims it did the right thing, but by who I say? The players maybe, but not the Carlton FC!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #138 –
Surely you can't lay blame on a coach who tries to discover value in a player, in a role that's contrary to the one his originally recruited for. The fact Kruizer hasn't fulfilled his potential can't be put at the feet of MM, who like the rest of us has realized that the vision of an all dominating Ruckman was more fantasy than fact. You can't blame MM for the fact that Kruizer gets smashed as centre bounces and then can't get his body right to run as an all rounder utility. Surely you can't blame MM for turning Kruiz into a spud. All you can blame him for is not having the ability to turn a spud into a key ruckman. That  applies equally for Cas and Rowe albeit for different reasons. Kruiz's body may be his downfall where as the other 2 lack the ability to begin with. In any case the problem doesn't lay with MM. Kruiz's body was smashed by Ratten playing him with injury, and the other 2 shouldn't have been selected to begin with.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #139 –
Quote from: denimundies on
Kruiz's body was smashed by Ratten playing him with injury, and the other 2 shouldn't have been selected to begin with.

Huh??
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #140 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Quote from: denimundies on
Kruiz's body was smashed by Ratten playing him with injury, and the other 2 shouldn't have been selected to begin with.

Huh??

He was constantly played by Ratten while he had Knee problems.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #141 –
Fair point, I believe it was Carrots who told us back in 2012 that he was going in to get his knee drained weekly after matches.

I think it was more rumour rather than fact, but it certainly appeared that he played that way.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #142 –
The irony in the Ralph article, if you have read it, is that the excluding Sandiland the best performed ruckmen are not much taller than Kreuzer, Hale 201cm and McEvoy 200cm. Yet he claims you have to be a giant, perhaps Ralph has a problem with metric conversion, he must perceive 11 cm as 11 inches!

Attributing Sandilands dominance to his height is bogus, it is almost insulting to Sandiland. Sandiland is dominant because he is a good ruckmen in the way Warnock isn't! Sandilands does not have, now or ever, the vertical leap of many other AFL rucks. I doubt after all his foot problems if he even wants to try and get too far off the ground. He uses his weight and strength to supreme advantage, most of Sandiland's result come from him sticking one of his giant paws into the opposing ruckmen and just pushing them off the ball.

Further highlighting Ralph's rubbery logic, he goes on about Sandiland's massive dominance(21.1%), then tells you at the end of the article about Hampson's 22.8% record. Nobody, here or elsewhere would rate Hampson a better ruck than Sandiland, Kreuzer, Mumford, Naitanui or even Maric. That is because those stats are almost as worthless as Warnock's taps.

Then comes Kreuzer isn't overly physical, tell that to Jolly!

Kreuzer is a ruckmen, if allowed to get himself fit he is a far superior ruckmen than Robert Warnock, Warnock is way too one dimensional. That day 206 turned to jelly in front of goal after a tap on the cheek from Enright, to later develop "delayed concussion", has come back to haunt us. It was in Ralph's words a "massive" tell that our club ignored, possibly only equaled by Mark Porter's collapse after a hip and shoulder by a passing midget!

Playing Kreuzer busted doesn't help, either in the past or the present, and there are rumors about both!

Historically Kreuzer's main problems came from trying to turn him into monster forward, he got too heavy too quickly which looks to have triggered a range of leg and hip issues. He initially hurt that leg in a forward marking contest.

Malthouse stating there is no future for Kreuzer in the ruck is absurd, I am not sure anyone actually takes him seriously. He would have been better of claiming Kreuzer's career was over crippled by injury. That would have made far more sense. Like a lot of the anger we have seen in the MM coaches box, I suspect this was nothing more than a shallow side swipe at the kid from a bitter and twisted old man who's time has past!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #143 –
Again responding to filler articles.

Kreuzer is struggling because he did an ACL on that piece of crap of a surface in the docklands, and has never been able to recapture the form he showed prior which had him on track to becoming a proficient ruckman that could be relied upon to take the odd mark and kick the odd goal up forwad.

The shifting interchange rules, and the fact that the bloke cant run out a game like he used to means that he needs to either become multi faceted (i.e. play as a forward when not rucking) or he become a gun ruckman.  Given his body issues, a gun ruckman is not going to be his go moving forward, as a Nic Nat will simply jump over him whilst he remains a bit of a lumbering dinosaur.  If we can recall, the ACL that Kreuzer did robbed him of that athleticism and agility that made him the freak he was.

@LP

Quote from: LP on
Historically Kreuzer's main problems came from trying to turn him into monster forward, he got too heavy too quickly which looks to have triggered a range of leg and hip issues. He initially hurt that leg in a forward marking contest.
Hip surgery was done on Kreuzer before he played his first game with the club.  The knee injury happened in a ruck contest at Etihad vs Freo.  It would more than likely have been too much load on one so young too soon that really was the problem in what we did to him.

Quote
Malthouse stating there is no future for Kreuzer in the ruck is absurd, I am not sure anyone actually takes him seriously. He would have been better of claiming Kreuzer's career was over crippled by injury.

Malthouse stated nothing of the sort.  He simply stated he will need to play forward.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #144 –
Quote from: LP on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
This is where we make mistakes.....you either pick ruckman or you pick forwards not ruck/forward jack of all trades but masters of none types ie Casboult/Rowe...we need specialist KP players.
This was always my argument, we kept the hybrids and removed the specialists. Now Jacobs and Hampson first ruck at other clubs while we continue to try and make Kreuzer a forward, and we hang onto Casboult and Rowe in the hope they can be a bit of both. We are our own worst enemy. We got rid of AFL quality ruck specialists, weakened our ruck division in the process and kept some VFL quality hybrids..

Jacobs and Hampson were never going to  be first rucks at our club due to numbers, so it fair we let them go. Neither would be a forwards backside. Casboult and Hampson are forwards  (or backs in Rowe's case too) not here to be ruckmen. They only ruck as short term relief, like many forwards have done, as we often go like crap when we play two ruckman.  Only one can ruck, meaning one has to  be forward. That clogs up a KP spot with someone who is useless at it and we get run  off  Be nice have a Corey McKernan type, who could ruck and play forward forward, but we don't. Not any more at least.

Don't think it's that hard. 

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #145 –
@Laj

Precisely, and that's why we need on our books:
1 x specialist first ruck, ideally who can also take a mark and kick
1 x competent understudy for first ruck in case of injury
2 x primarily KPFs who can cover first ruck to give specialist ruck a rest.

IMO we should not be trying to play Kreuzer and Warnock in the same games - in fact we should decide which one is to be our first ruck and look to cash in the other one if we can.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #146 –
When is the Wood going to get the call up since Krooze has been placed on the LTI?
2024... Moir of the same to come
 

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #147 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Again responding to filler articles.

Kreuzer is struggling because he did an ACL on that piece of crap of a surface in the docklands, and has never been able to recapture the form he showed prior which had him on track to becoming a proficient ruckman that could be relied upon to take the odd mark and kick the odd goal up forwad.

The shifting interchange rules, and the fact that the bloke cant run out a game like he used to means that he needs to either become multi faceted (i.e. play as a forward when not rucking) or he become a gun ruckman.  Given his body issues, a gun ruckman is not going to be his go moving forward, as a Nic Nat will simply jump over him whilst he remains a bit of a lumbering dinosaur.  If we can recall, the ACL that Kreuzer did robbed him of that athleticism and agility that made him the freak he was.

@LP

Quote from: LP on
Historically Kreuzer's main problems came from trying to turn him into monster forward, he got too heavy too quickly which looks to have triggered a range of leg and hip issues. He initially hurt that leg in a forward marking contest.
Hip surgery was done on Kreuzer before he played his first game with the club.  The knee injury happened in a ruck contest at Etihad vs Freo.  It would more than likely have been too much load on one so young too soon that really was the problem in what we did to him.

Quote
Malthouse stating there is no future for Kreuzer in the ruck is absurd, I am not sure anyone actually takes him seriously. He would have been better of claiming Kreuzer's career was over crippled by injury.

Malthouse stated nothing of the sort.  He simply stated he will need to play forward.

Kruezer like Hampson struggles to take marks and kick goals when placed forward...how many times do I need to say its a specialist position and ruckman dont work as KP Forwards.
Micks losing the plot if he thinks Kruezer will ever make it as a forward.....and 200cm isnt short for a ruckman if you are any good....Ryder is 196cm and gets the job done for Essendon and is a threat when played forward.
Will Minson is 199cm and was the AA ruckman in 2013.....
Mick is making excuses and they are not very good ones....

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #148 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Again responding to filler articles.

Kreuzer is struggling because he did an ACL on that piece of crap of a surface in the docklands, and has never been able to recapture the form he showed prior which had him on track to becoming a proficient ruckman that could be relied upon to take the odd mark and kick the odd goal up forwad.

The shifting interchange rules, and the fact that the bloke cant run out a game like he used to means that he needs to either become multi faceted (i.e. play as a forward when not rucking) or he become a gun ruckman.  Given his body issues, a gun ruckman is not going to be his go moving forward, as a Nic Nat will simply jump over him whilst he remains a bit of a lumbering dinosaur.  If we can recall, the ACL that Kreuzer did robbed him of that athleticism and agility that made him the freak he was.

@LP

Quote from: LP on
Historically Kreuzer's main problems came from trying to turn him into monster forward, he got too heavy too quickly which looks to have triggered a range of leg and hip issues. He initially hurt that leg in a forward marking contest.
Hip surgery was done on Kreuzer before he played his first game with the club.  The knee injury happened in a ruck contest at Etihad vs Freo.  It would more than likely have been too much load on one so young too soon that really was the problem in what we did to him.

Quote
Malthouse stating there is no future for Kreuzer in the ruck is absurd, I am not sure anyone actually takes him seriously. He would have been better of claiming Kreuzer's career was over crippled by injury.

Malthouse stated nothing of the sort.  He simply stated he will need to play forward.

Kruezer like Hampson struggles to take marks and kick goals when placed forward...how many times do I need to say its a specialist position and ruckman dont work as KP Forwards.
Micks losing the plot if he thinks Kruezer will ever make it as a forward.....and 200cm isnt short for a ruckman if you are any good....Ryder is 196cm and gets the job done for Essendon and is a threat when played forward.
Will Minson is 199cm and was the AA ruckman in 2013.....
Mick is making excuses and they are not very good ones....

Who said make him a key forward?

Mick is making excuses now....  What excuses?  He simply stated that Kreuzer needs to add the ability to play forward.  Why is this so hard to understand?  It doesnt mean turn him into Paul Salmon.

As for what Kreuzer can and cannot do, how about we let him get injury free and play some footy and then we can talk about what he can and cannot do, because based on his last couple of years he cant even do that.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #149 –
Interesting that Hammer has a higher percentage of taps to advantage (whatever that really means) than Sandilands did in what was seen as a dominant ruck display. I'd be interested in seeing that stat over the year.  Hammer isn't much chop around the ground but still light years ahead of Warnock so if he's getting more balls down our midfielder's throats (be it from less taps) then I think we can say we didn't make the right decision on who we let go but maybe no one offered anything for Warnock.