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Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #195 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Agree...he is like Samson...his strengths have been cut away and he has no edge to his game anymore and will be worth nothing on the trade market.
Only thing to do is hope his operation is succesful and he can get some of that mobility and spring back...

Pretty much, I would put him on ice for the year and get him right for 2015.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #196 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Again responding to filler articles.

Kreuzer is struggling because he did an ACL on that piece of crap of a surface in the docklands, and has never been able to recapture the form he showed prior which had him on track to becoming a proficient ruckman that could be relied upon to take the odd mark and kick the odd goal up forwad.

The shifting interchange rules, and the fact that the bloke cant run out a game like he used to means that he needs to either become multi faceted (i.e. play as a forward when not rucking) or he become a gun ruckman.  Given his body issues, a gun ruckman is not going to be his go moving forward, as a Nic Nat will simply jump over him whilst he remains a bit of a lumbering dinosaur.  If we can recall, the ACL that Kreuzer did robbed him of that athleticism and agility that made him the freak he was.

@LP

Quote from: LP on
Historically Kreuzer's main problems came from trying to turn him into monster forward, he got too heavy too quickly which looks to have triggered a range of leg and hip issues. He initially hurt that leg in a forward marking contest.
Hip surgery was done on Kreuzer before he played his first game with the club.  The knee injury happened in a ruck contest at Etihad vs Freo.  It would more than likely have been too much load on one so young too soon that really was the problem in what we did to him.

Quote
Malthouse stating there is no future for Kreuzer in the ruck is absurd, I am not sure anyone actually takes him seriously. He would have been better of claiming Kreuzer's career was over crippled by injury.

Malthouse stated nothing of the sort.  He simply stated he will need to play forward.

Kruezer like Hampson struggles to take marks and kick goals when placed forward...how many times do I need to say its a specialist position and ruckman dont work as KP Forwards.
Micks losing the plot if he thinks Kruezer will ever make it as a forward.....and 200cm isnt short for a ruckman if you are any good....Ryder is 196cm and gets the job done for Essendon and is a threat when played forward.
Will Minson is 199cm and was the AA ruckman in 2013.....
Mick is making excuses and they are not very good ones....

Who said make him a key forward?

Mick is making excuses now....  What excuses?  He simply stated that Kreuzer needs to add the ability to play forward.  Why is this so hard to understand?  It doesnt mean turn him into Paul Salmon.

As for what Kreuzer can and cannot do, how about we let him get injury free and play some footy and then we can talk about what he can and cannot do, because based on his last couple of years he cant even do that.

The excuse being Kruezer cant get the ruck job done because he is only 200cm...why would  he say he is too short?....thats just rubbish .
Ability to play forward?...would I be wrong in suggesting that has been tried and failed with Kruezer like it was with Hampson.?..why conduct another time wasting/band aid experiment when the first one was a failure.

How about recruiting specialist KP forwards and letting Kruezer try and concentrate on rucking.....

He didn't say Kreuzer cannot ruck.  If he did please present the quote to backup your OPINION of what he stated.

Malthouse said he cant compete because 200cm is too short...its an astounding comment for a coach to make as the article here suggests:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/the-modern-ruckman-must-be-over-200cm-tall-to-compete-in-land-of-the-giants/story-fndv7pj3-1226873971735

Its all points to Malthouse saying Kruezer doesnt have the other attributes required to get the job done and overcome this perceived lack of height ..
Kruezer lacks the spring and physicality according to the article and given he has a serious foot injury I dont see things improving.

Thry, ...Thats dismissive of Kruezer and you know it...telling him he has to learn to play forward is telling him you are not good enough to be my No 1 ruckman,
its a damming statement by Malthouse and if I was Kruezer I would be highly emabarrassed my coach thinks I cant compete anymore.

He still didn't say he is too short to play ruck and the article is a beat up.  watch the interview and rather than reading into what he says just listen to it.  He says Kreuzer is a short ruck that will need to learn to play forward.

What part of calling him a short ruck means he cannot ruck or cannot compete in the ruck?

Currently he can't do anything anyway so it's all moot but I think we are simply choosing to be sensationalist with what we hear. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #197 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Again responding to filler articles.

Kreuzer is struggling because he did an ACL on that piece of crap of a surface in the docklands, and has never been able to recapture the form he showed prior which had him on track to becoming a proficient ruckman that could be relied upon to take the odd mark and kick the odd goal up forwad.

The shifting interchange rules, and the fact that the bloke cant run out a game like he used to means that he needs to either become multi faceted (i.e. play as a forward when not rucking) or he become a gun ruckman.  Given his body issues, a gun ruckman is not going to be his go moving forward, as a Nic Nat will simply jump over him whilst he remains a bit of a lumbering dinosaur.  If we can recall, the ACL that Kreuzer did robbed him of that athleticism and agility that made him the freak he was.

@LP

Quote from: LP on
Historically Kreuzer's main problems came from trying to turn him into monster forward, he got too heavy too quickly which looks to have triggered a range of leg and hip issues. He initially hurt that leg in a forward marking contest.
Hip surgery was done on Kreuzer before he played his first game with the club.  The knee injury happened in a ruck contest at Etihad vs Freo.  It would more than likely have been too much load on one so young too soon that really was the problem in what we did to him.

Quote
Malthouse stating there is no future for Kreuzer in the ruck is absurd, I am not sure anyone actually takes him seriously. He would have been better of claiming Kreuzer's career was over crippled by injury.

Malthouse stated nothing of the sort.  He simply stated he will need to play forward.

Kruezer like Hampson struggles to take marks and kick goals when placed forward...how many times do I need to say its a specialist position and ruckman dont work as KP Forwards.
Micks losing the plot if he thinks Kruezer will ever make it as a forward.....and 200cm isnt short for a ruckman if you are any good....Ryder is 196cm and gets the job done for Essendon and is a threat when played forward.
Will Minson is 199cm and was the AA ruckman in 2013.....
Mick is making excuses and they are not very good ones....

Who said make him a key forward?

Mick is making excuses now....  What excuses?  He simply stated that Kreuzer needs to add the ability to play forward.  Why is this so hard to understand?  It doesnt mean turn him into Paul Salmon.

As for what Kreuzer can and cannot do, how about we let him get injury free and play some footy and then we can talk about what he can and cannot do, because based on his last couple of years he cant even do that.

The excuse being Kruezer cant get the ruck job done because he is only 200cm...why would  he say he is too short?....thats just rubbish .
Ability to play forward?...would I be wrong in suggesting that has been tried and failed with Kruezer like it was with Hampson.?..why conduct another time wasting/band aid experiment when the first one was a failure.

How about recruiting specialist KP forwards and letting Kruezer try and concentrate on rucking.....

He didn't say Kreuzer cannot ruck.  If he did please present the quote to backup your OPINION of what he stated.

Malthouse said he cant compete because 200cm is too short...its an astounding comment for a coach to make as the article here suggests:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/the-modern-ruckman-must-be-over-200cm-tall-to-compete-in-land-of-the-giants/story-fndv7pj3-1226873971735

Its all points to Malthouse saying Kruezer doesnt have the other attributes required to get the job done and overcome this perceived lack of height ..
Kruezer lacks the spring and physicality according to the article and given he has a serious foot injury I dont see things improving.

Thry, ...Thats dismissive of Kruezer and you know it...telling him he has to learn to play forward is telling him you are not good enough to be my No 1 ruckman,
its a damming statement by Malthouse and if I was Kruezer I would be highly emabarrassed my coach thinks I cant compete anymore.

He still didn't say he is too short to play ruck and the article is a beat up.  watch the interview and rather than reading into what he says just listen to it.  He says Kreuzer is a short ruck that will need to learn to play forward.

What part of calling him a short ruck means he cannot ruck or cannot compete in the ruck?

Currently he can't do anything anyway so it's all moot but I think we are simply choosing to be sensationalist with what we hear.

He said he cant compete.....I'll make it easy. do you think at 200cm MK is too short to compete? and that what MM said is ludicrous...?
If he said MK is struggling with injury, cannot use his spring and mobility because of his sore foot and that is making him uncompetitive then I I dont have a problem.

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #198 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
He says Kreuzer is a short ruck that will need to learn to play forward.

The fact is that Kreuzer is taller than other successful ruckmen such as Ryder and Minson. 

I can't link the article, but have a read of Malthouse's assessment the importance of Kreuzer to Carlton's premiership chances published on 15 April 2012.

As I said earlier, Malthouse says whatever suits his interests or agenda at the time.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #199 –
Taller shorter heavier lighter quicker slower FFS all he said was that most key rucks are big lads, then spun of a number to back his comment re them being big boys. He then went in to say that he feeks Kruiz needs to learn to play forward.  And lets face it he cant run so its either that or ciao matteo.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #200 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Again responding to filler articles.

Kreuzer is struggling because he did an ACL on that piece of crap of a surface in the docklands, and has never been able to recapture the form he showed prior which had him on track to becoming a proficient ruckman that could be relied upon to take the odd mark and kick the odd goal up forwad.

The shifting interchange rules, and the fact that the bloke cant run out a game like he used to means that he needs to either become multi faceted (i.e. play as a forward when not rucking) or he become a gun ruckman.  Given his body issues, a gun ruckman is not going to be his go moving forward, as a Nic Nat will simply jump over him whilst he remains a bit of a lumbering dinosaur.  If we can recall, the ACL that Kreuzer did robbed him of that athleticism and agility that made him the freak he was.

@LP

Quote from: LP on
Historically Kreuzer's main problems came from trying to turn him into monster forward, he got too heavy too quickly which looks to have triggered a range of leg and hip issues. He initially hurt that leg in a forward marking contest.
Hip surgery was done on Kreuzer before he played his first game with the club.  The knee injury happened in a ruck contest at Etihad vs Freo.  It would more than likely have been too much load on one so young too soon that really was the problem in what we did to him.

Quote
Malthouse stating there is no future for Kreuzer in the ruck is absurd, I am not sure anyone actually takes him seriously. He would have been better of claiming Kreuzer's career was over crippled by injury.

Malthouse stated nothing of the sort.  He simply stated he will need to play forward.

Kruezer like Hampson struggles to take marks and kick goals when placed forward...how many times do I need to say its a specialist position and ruckman dont work as KP Forwards.
Micks losing the plot if he thinks Kruezer will ever make it as a forward.....and 200cm isnt short for a ruckman if you are any good....Ryder is 196cm and gets the job done for Essendon and is a threat when played forward.
Will Minson is 199cm and was the AA ruckman in 2013.....
Mick is making excuses and they are not very good ones....

Who said make him a key forward?

Mick is making excuses now....  What excuses?  He simply stated that Kreuzer needs to add the ability to play forward.  Why is this so hard to understand?  It doesnt mean turn him into Paul Salmon.

As for what Kreuzer can and cannot do, how about we let him get injury free and play some footy and then we can talk about what he can and cannot do, because based on his last couple of years he cant even do that.

The excuse being Kruezer cant get the ruck job done because he is only 200cm...why would  he say he is too short?....thats just rubbish .
Ability to play forward?...would I be wrong in suggesting that has been tried and failed with Kruezer like it was with Hampson.?..why conduct another time wasting/band aid experiment when the first one was a failure.

How about recruiting specialist KP forwards and letting Kruezer try and concentrate on rucking.....

He didn't say Kreuzer cannot ruck.  If he did please present the quote to backup your OPINION of what he stated.

Malthouse said he cant compete because 200cm is too short...its an astounding comment for a coach to make as the article here suggests:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/the-modern-ruckman-must-be-over-200cm-tall-to-compete-in-land-of-the-giants/story-fndv7pj3-1226873971735

Its all points to Malthouse saying Kruezer doesnt have the other attributes required to get the job done and overcome this perceived lack of height ..
Kruezer lacks the spring and physicality according to the article and given he has a serious foot injury I dont see things improving.

Thry, ...Thats dismissive of Kruezer and you know it...telling him he has to learn to play forward is telling him you are not good enough to be my No 1 ruckman,
its a damming statement by Malthouse and if I was Kruezer I would be highly emabarrassed my coach thinks I cant compete anymore.

He still didn't say he is too short to play ruck and the article is a beat up.  watch the interview and rather than reading into what he says just listen to it.  He says Kreuzer is a short ruck that will need to learn to play forward.

What part of calling him a short ruck means he cannot ruck or cannot compete in the ruck?

Currently he can't do anything anyway so it's all moot but I think we are simply choosing to be sensationalist with what we hear.

He said he cant compete.....I'll make it easy. do you think at 200cm MK is too short to compete? and that what MM said is ludicrous...?
If he said MK is struggling with injury, cannot use his spring and mobility because of his sore foot and that is making him uncompetitive then I I dont have a problem.

He never stated anything about being uncompetitive in the ruck.  You are inferring meaning in his comments and that is all.

If you can show me footage of where Mick states he won't be able to be competitive in the ruck or quote him in an article saying as much due to his size, and then I'll happily concede and join your tirade as Kreuzer was ultra competitive as recently as early 2012.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #201 –
@Thry and elwood

Guys, can we limit the amount of quotes in your replies.

It is getting ridiculous.

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #202 –
Regardless, it's obvious what MM meant, Thryleon has a tendency to disregard the obvious if it contradicts his opinion.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #203 –
Not at all Carrots.  I watched talking footy and saw the interview and it was clear to me that Malthouse meant nothing like what the article states and what ElwoodBlues1 has interpreted.

@kruddler it's hard to fix the quoting on the phone, as selecting all with a touch screen is difficult.

For arguments sake I will happily concede I was wrong if Malthouse can directly be quoted as stating that Kreuzer can't be competitive in the ruck due to his size.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #204 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
@kruddler it's hard to fix the quoting on the phone, as selecting all with a touch screen is difficult.

That is fair enough, but as you've pointed out here there is an alternative to quoting large amounts of text. Just hit reply (instead of quote) and use @kruddler to get someones attention. ;)

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #205 –
The reality is atm he doesn't beat the other Ruckmen ( of who the best  happen to be bigger than himself). The size issue was just  one point of difference, but that doesnt mean he was implying that he generally feels he's 2 small to be a good ruckman. Rather it implies, that MK doesn't have the ability to compete with the best atm because  he can't run relentlessly without braking down, nor can he jump to compensate. He wasn't going to come out and openly say that, so he jumped to the the obvious ie he needs to find a way to contribute and that's to play forward. If it's true that a ruckman can't play forward, as some in here insist, then you may as well stamp his papers now.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #206 –
Quote from: kruddler on
@Thry and elwood

Guys, can we limit the amount of quotes in your replies.

It is getting ridiculous.


Point taken and I'm done anyway... Thry and I differ in opinion on this one and its time to move on...

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #207 –
Below is what Leigh Matthews thinks about Aaron Sandiland.

Quote from: Leigh Matthews
“Hit outs are useless, it’s only what they contribute to the clearance, running the ball away from the pack.

“So I’m going to make a statement, Aaron Sandilands is therefore the most overrated player in footy, because hit-outs is all he does.”

Sandilands had 11 disposals and suffered in comparison to West Coast ruckman Dean Cox, Matthews said.

“Now that’s a great ruckman, because he’s good at the hit outs, fantastic follower and gets around the ground,” he said.

I must say I do not agree about Sandiland, but I do agree about the value of taps, this is what I have argued for sometime about Warnock's taps, the true value of Kreuzer around clearances, and the stupid trading of Hampson. This is Matthew's view of the value of taps, other clubs will undoubtedly agree, what hope for Carlton, Warnock and our MC?

Carlton's MC must look so foolish to opposition clubs at this moment, think about what we have done in the light of Matthew's statement.

Next draft/trade period we will be recruiting a ruckmen again, and they may cost us more than we got for Hampson!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #208 –
Perish the thought!
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Kreuzer VS Warnock VS Wood - How Will This One Play Out ??

Reply #209 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
Perish the thought!

I suppose the doubters will get on here and claim Matthew's logic is showing signs of his age, but not Malthouse!  ;D
The Force Awakens!