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Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #75
Also he wad playing to his potential what people were moaning about was consistency. 

Semantics to a point.

If he does 1 good, athletic, eye-popping thing a game, and goes missing for the rest of it, is that because he hasn't reached his potential or he isn't consistent?
I'd say its potential.

If he has 1 solid game 1 week and a nothing game the next week, i'd say that is consistency.

He may have put together the odd solid game over his career, but he hasn't earned himself a 3 brownlow vote game in the way Nic Nat did. He is capable of it.....which is why its been frustrating.

Previously, people have seen glimpses, and extrapolate that out to a good performance.
When you break it down, the rest of the performances have usually been very much sub par. He is remembered for the 'almost' mark of the week attempts, and not for going missing for 20 minutes at a time. This is why i went to great depth to show people perceptions of what he was doing, was out of whack with what he was actually doing. Opposite was true with Pittonet/Silvagni.

NOW he is starting to find some more consistency and using his gifts we all knew he had. Taking some marks. Getting some ground balls. Sticking some tackles. Kicking some goals. This should be the norm from him, not the exception.

I said all along, i've got no issue with him, but he needed to perform, not just get a gig based on potential. He is starting to perform and we should keep it that way.

My only worry is that he is peforming now because he is fit and healthy. After getting banged up week in and week out, he may not be able to perform in the same way. Won't be able to jump as high, run as fast and pressure in the same manner due to niggles/injury. THEN it may become an issue.

I still maintain we run with 1 ruck, and he is my preference for now.
Maybe switch him out for Pittonet if he starts to carry a niggle, but don't play both.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #76
I really think  that  everyone needs to rememeber who  Lewis Young is, he  is a  a backup and as a backup we need to have a little more faith in him, look where we would be without him?  think about that  get onboard and pump up his tyres a little , whilst he is down   a little support from all may prove to be a benefit . he wasnt picked up to be  the  main man.

People need to remember that he was also holding down a key post for a whole season and looked like a million bucks. Thats why we gave him a long term contract.

Since then, he is gone from a starter, to a backup....and a backup of a backup at that! We were choosing to play him behind Weitering, McGovern, Kemp and Marchbank in that role, despite 3 of them not actually being suited to it.

As i just got saying about TDK. Its about potential. He had it.  He fulfilled it. He lost it.
He should not be judged with kid gloves because he has gone backwards as a player....and right at a point in time where we need him the most.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #77
Great post.

He is playing one if the hardest spots where every error is magnified and he is then labelled a dud.
A midfielder misses a handball or kick but then does something good the error is usually forgiven. Do the same in defence and many want them cut off the list.

Kemp makes mistakes too but has been solid and both kemp and young are playing massive roles and i think so far they have both been serviceable which is all you can ask with no generals like Weitering or doc assisting.

How many mistakes did Young actually make?

There was the soft, front on free to Lynch that should have been play on.  He made up ground on Balta and tackled just after Balta kicked for goal. His tackle on Lynch didn’t stick but Lynch had the advantage.

Young stuck his marks and spoiled when that was the best option - something Kemp should take note of - and his spoils killed the ball.

Finally, his disposal was excellent, unlike that of Saad, Williams and Boyd.

Young isn’t Weitering but he’s doing a decent job as a stand in.  Weitering makes life easier for all of our defenders and Young is no exception.  I expect him to stay in the 22 when Weiters is back and play even better footy.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #78
Semantics to a point.

If he does 1 good, athletic, eye-popping thing a game, and goes missing for the rest of it, is that because he hasn't reached his potential or he isn't consistent?
I'd say its potential.

If he has 1 solid game 1 week and a nothing game the next week, i'd say that is consistency.

He may have put together the odd solid game over his career, but he hasn't earned himself a 3 brownlow vote game in the way Nic Nat did. He is capable of it.....which is why its been frustrating.

Previously, people have seen glimpses, and extrapolate that out to a good performance.
When you break it down, the rest of the performances have usually been very much sub par. He is remembered for the 'almost' mark of the week attempts, and not for going missing for 20 minutes at a time. This is why i went to great depth to show people perceptions of what he was doing, was out of whack with what he was actually doing. Opposite was true with Pittonet/Silvagni.

NOW he is starting to find some more consistency and using his gifts we all knew he had. Taking some marks. Getting some ground balls. Sticking some tackles. Kicking some goals. This should be the norm from him, not the exception.

I said all along, i've got no issue with him, but he needed to perform, not just get a gig based on potential. He is starting to perform and we should keep it that way.

My only worry is that he is peforming now because he is fit and healthy. After getting banged up week in and week out, he may not be able to perform in the same way. Won't be able to jump as high, run as fast and pressure in the same manner due to niggles/injury. THEN it may become an issue.

I still maintain we run with 1 ruck, and he is my preference for now.
Maybe switch him out for Pittonet if he starts to carry a niggle, but don't play both.

I reckon the best way to develop your potential is to play senior games against seasoned opposition.
You learn from the best, even if they give you a hiding or two in the early contests.
De Koning's starting to show us what he's capable of because he's been getting those experiences against the very best in the latter part of last season and early this year.
You don't get that playing VFL.

Consistency is another thing that comes from experience.
It sometimes takes a while...so if there is the odd run of bad games we have to accept that as part of the development.

It's why it's probably not a great idea to make judgements in the moment, or at a certain point of a players early career.


Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #79
I reckon the best way to develop your potential is to play senior games against seasoned opposition.
You learn from the best, even if they give you a hiding or two in the early contests.
De Koning's starting to show us what he's capable of because he's been getting those experiences against the very best in the latter part of last season and early this year.
You don't get that playing VFL.

Consistency is another thing that comes from experience.
It sometimes takes a while...so if there is the odd run of bad games we have to accept that as part of the development.

It's why it's probably not a great idea to make judgements in the moment, or at a certain point of a players early career.

You can also ruin a player and his confidence by gifting them games before they are ready for it.
Dow and O'Brien immediately spring to mind.
Doubley so for young rucks/kpps.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #80
You can also ruin a player and his confidence by gifting them games before they are ready for it.
Dow and O'Brien immediately spring to mind.
Doubley so for young rucks/kpps.

The Dow and O'Brien situation was an intersting one.
Bolton played them early and they seemed to be going OK.

Teague came in and reverted to his more experienced group.
Have a look at Dow's stats in 2018-2019 and you can actually see the point where it goes off the rails.
"Rounds 12-13 2019."

I don't think DeKoning has been damaged by being 'gifted'  games early.
I think he's been managed well, getting games and experience as it was considered he needed that exposure.
He's progressing well over the last two seasons...and the best may be yet to come.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #81
Dow and Obrien continued playing U18's footy at senior level and couldnt handle the pressure being thrown in at the deep end and the expectations of being top ten picks. TDK was pick 30 and with that comes less expectation and being a big bloke always had some leeway and allowance for a slower development if needed. Like his brother though he has always looked comfortable and has made steady progress to the point now he is the clear No 1 ruck at the club like his brother who is the clear No 1 key defender at Geelong. Will be interesting to see how Paddy Dow goes at the Saints and the expectations that Lyon and SOS put on him along with the rank and file.


Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #82
I don't think DeKoning has been damaged by being 'gifted'  games early.
I think he's been managed well, getting games and experience as it was considered he needed that exposure.
He's progressing well over the last two seasons...and the best may be yet to come.
I wasn't suggesting we have damaged him. Just pointing out that its more complex than simply play the kids and get them up to speed.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #83
A first for me too. If he didn't get his foot to it, it was unfortunately a free kick.

And Charlie is adamant that he did get a boot to the ball 🤔

I know that there’s often a rush of blood in that situation, and there’s the desire to avoid the pressure of a set shot; as per the Sheriff against Melbourne.  However, game awareness should mean taking the set shot after milking 30 seconds from the clock.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #84
I really think  that  everyone needs to rememeber who  Lewis Young is, he  is a  a backup and as a backup we need to have a little more faith in him, look where we would be without him?  think about that  get onboard and pump up his tyres a little , whilst he is down   a little support from all may prove to be a benefit . he wasnt picked up to be  the  main man.
I thought he did very well the other night. Sure panicked a few times and got out positioned and out muscled but that happens to the best. His DE was very high (90s IIRC) which is good. You cant ask for any more than what he has delivered in the last two weeks.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #85
Yeah, if Young was our main man you’d be nervous but he’s designed to be a stand in or accomplice for Weiters, he’s doing ok in Weiters absence.
Will he hold his place when Weiters is fit…?
Let’s go BIG !

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #86
I wasn't suggesting we have damaged him. Just pointing out that its more complex than simply play the kids and get them up to speed.

No doubt.
And the folks in the best position to make those decisions are those who work closest with them.
In the past there's been some fair criticism of the way we develop players.
'Development' has taken a back seat to 'results' at times.

I'd like to think we're maybe getting better at that with the current regime in place.
Binns is probably a good example of how we're taking a more measured approach.
Despite calls for his inclusion towards the end of last season, after some great form in the VFL, there was a resistance to pull the switch.
I'm sure we'll see him at some stage this year.
But in the end the greatest benefits for his development will come when he starts mixing it at AFL level.

 

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #87
Yeah, if Young was our main man you’d be nervous but he’s designed to be a stand in or accomplice for Weiters, he’s doing ok in Weiters absence.
Will he hold his place when Weiters is fit…?

I reckon he will.

As I wrote above, Weitering's presence helps all of our defenders and Young will have the added benefit of not standing the opposition's best tall forward for most of the game.

As much as I like Kemp, it's a huge ask for him to stand the likes of Nick Larkey or Coleman-Jones.  You need gorilla minders to play on the gorillas and, on this year's form, Young is up to the task.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #88
Im a fan for young and think he is above average AFL key defender.
Issue I have we cant have too many players that lack run in the back half. Despite Kemp not being a gorilla he provides plenty of rebound and disposal ability . We have a lot of hybrid defenders - Kemp, Gov, Marchy with Weitering, Saad and Williams, Newman and Boyd can take on any forward mix and provide plenty moving forward

Re: AFL Rd 1 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #89
Im a fan for young and think he is above average AFL key defender.
Issue I have we cant have too many players that lack run in the back half. Despite Kemp not being a gorilla he provides plenty of rebound and disposal ability . We have a lot of hybrid defenders - Kemp, Gov, Marchy with Weitering, Saad and Williams, Newman and Boyd can take on any forward mix and provide plenty moving forward
Marchbank will be delisted at years end and shouldn't be on our plans. Too unreliable from the point of view of getting on the park.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time